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View Full Version : ** PLEASE VOTE *** What direction do you think the KCBS is heading?


Ford
05-14-2010, 04:18 PM
I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

1. Mega competition circuit with prize money to support 100+ teams as full time competition teams year round.

2. A backyard BBQ organization to help small contests all over the country to get going and to encourage other people to join our sport.

3. Competition is a small part of the overall goals of the KCBS and there's way to much focus on competition. Let's focus on education (classes for a reasonable rate for John Q. Public) and show people how much fun cooking BBQ is. Add cooking demos like the BBQ tour but have locals do them at a contest and have them sponsored by the KCBS to do the demo instead of cooking. Even allow 10-20 people to join up with 2 -5 teams at a contest and cook with them. Learn what it's all about - and charge a reasonable fee to those people. KCBS compensates teams for this of course but not a lot.

I'd say we'd get about a 50% for #2 and 30% for #3 and 20% for number one. Mods maybe we want to do a poll but probably outside just competition because KCBS is a lot more than competition IMHO.

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

LindaM
05-14-2010, 04:32 PM
I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

1. Mega competition circuit with prize money to support 100+ teams as full time competition teams year round.

2. A backyard BBQ organization to help small contests all over the country to get going and to encourage other people to join our sport.

3. Competition is a small part of the overall goals of the KCBS and there's way to much focus on competition. Let's focus on education (classes for a reasonable rate for John Q. Public) and show people how much fun cooking BBQ is. Add cooking demos like the BBQ tour but have locals do them at a contest and have them sponsored by the KCBS to do the demo instead of cooking. Even allow 10-20 people to join up with 2 -5 teams at a contest and cook with them. Learn what it's all about - and charge a reasonable fee to those people. KCBS compensates teams for this of course but not a lot.

I'd say we'd get about a 50% for #2 and 30% for #3 and 20% for number one. Mods maybe we want to do a poll but probably outside just competition because KCBS is a lot more than competition IMHO.

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

Ford,
#2 was my crusade. Those backyard events are going to be like the dinasour if changes are not made, or someone steps up to handle them

ThomEmery
05-14-2010, 06:27 PM
Why do there have to be limits to one?
Can't it be multi leveled?

Jorge
05-15-2010, 08:06 AM
I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

1. Mega competition circuit with prize money to support 100+ teams as full time competition teams year round.

2. A backyard BBQ organization to help small contests all over the country to get going and to encourage other people to join our sport.

3. Competition is a small part of the overall goals of the KCBS and there's way to much focus on competition. Let's focus on education (classes for a reasonable rate for John Q. Public) and show people how much fun cooking BBQ is. Add cooking demos like the BBQ tour but have locals do them at a contest and have them sponsored by the KCBS to do the demo instead of cooking. Even allow 10-20 people to join up with 2 -5 teams at a contest and cook with them. Learn what it's all about - and charge a reasonable fee to those people. KCBS compensates teams for this of course but not a lot.

I'd say we'd get about a 50% for #2 and 30% for #3 and 20% for number one. Mods maybe we want to do a poll but probably outside just competition because KCBS is a lot more than competition IMHO.

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

Ford, I think this is worthy of being a separate thread as well. Let me know and I'll split it and create the poll.

When I referred to the potential that I believe is out there I was referring to potential for all of the above (with the exception of #4).

I strongly agree that education should be emphasized more than I perceive it to be at this time. I do think the current BoD has made some progress in recent years, but would like to see more. In addition, I think that the IRS will likely expect that as well as revenue increases.

KCBS has the infrastructure in place to do all of the above if resources are directed efficiently as they become available. I don't see any of the first three options being mutually exclusive, and actually see them as having the potential to be complimentary.

As for #4, I'd ask why a sanctioning organization would want to handcuff any organizer that was able to qualify for having their contest sanctioned? How does that benefit KCBS? As a member, I'd hope that KCBS would be the sanctioning organization of choice for such large contests.

As for issue #2, I like what KCBS has done with the Competitor Series. It has allowed some flexibility to benefit organizers that would like to try something different, or aren't in a position to put on a traditional contest. That does nothing but benefit the cooks.

I just don't see a need for KCBS to narrow the focus of the organization to one of the options offered. I think it is a better organization if it applies resources and talent to all of them.

Jorge
05-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Mod Note: This thread was split from another, after consulting with Ford. The topic, and discussion are worthy of a seperate thread.

YankeeBBQ
05-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Option #5: Into litigation with an angry ex board member who will refuse to go quietly when his term has ended. If you want any names we'll have to go into executive session.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
05-17-2010, 01:26 PM
I think the K.C.B.S. should try and focus on both. big comps for the thrill of the big comp and back yard comps to get intrest in the big comps. I think with out the little guy no one looks big. make sense?????

Scottie
05-17-2010, 01:59 PM
Option #5: Into litigation with an angry ex board member who will refuse to go quietly when his term has ended. If you want any names we'll have to go into executive session.


When I listened to the podcast of the April meeting last week. I thought I heard snoring... :doh:

Personally, I think KCBS needs a mixture of all of the above. They can't forget the smalelr contests. They can't allow them to go to the wayside like how Walmart has done to the local mom and pop grocery stores. We can't let the big organizers bully us around until they get what they want. I find it funny that we had one hold us hostage 2 months ago and now we are welcoming him in with open arms for his 'competitior' series contests. Is our memroy that clouded that the $$$ blind us?

We can't be blind to the fact that is all these monster cash contests are great. How will that effect the little guy wanting to get started? Do we need to have more of those contests like up in Wisconsin that pays no money. You have no chance at winning anything, so it's a loss, but it gets locals out? I think that is far to the extreme as well.

KC_Bobby
05-17-2010, 02:00 PM
I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

Ford I'm not sure I'm understanding #4 - is that a suggestion or is it more of a legal issue with non-for-profits and large pay-outs? For whatever reason 10.5K seems to be the payout for a good amount of 65-100 team comps around here.

If limiting the payout is a suggestion, please provide a little background on your thinking to help me understand.

I have not voted yet, but right now I lean towards both the big and small comps.

crd26a
05-17-2010, 02:30 PM
It will have to be both or the KCBS will fold.

First, with the small comps, these will be what keeps the KCBS running. They'll pay the basic operating costs of the organization. It will continue to get local individuals involved, find new teams that really enjoy the thrill of competiting, and continue to be a fund raiser for the local communities. Without these, individuals who want to spend the time and money won't look at the $500 entry fee contests to just give it a shot (unless you've got 6-8 people going in on them). This is the lifeblood for KCBS and will be so in the future, and realistically, should have a seperate, dedicated committee focused on running these effectively. I have ideas on how this can be improved by the KCBS, but that's a different story for a different day.

The large contests will help drive the growth of KCBS. The Smoke on Water / Kingsford / Sam's will help drive the national recognition of KCBS and can help expand what KCBS can do. Unfortunately, to do this effecively, as has been mentioned, KCBS will have to lose its not-for-profit status, requiring individuals that have a desire to drive KCBS as a business, not an occasional hobby.

KCBS should look at the big sponsors (Kingsford / Sam's) and leverage them differently. Let the Kingsford Series be a national tour the big teams chase while letting the Sam's sponsor regional events targeted at smaller teams (with corresponding weekends that allow for teams to compete in both the Kingsford and Sam's series, or require you to register for one, not both). Then let there be a Sam's shootout with the Top 5 teams from each region competiting in a final competition with Sam's providing all the final meats. Ultimately, you can end up with a tier system, the big money sponsor gets the big money teams, while regionally there can be some draws for the semi-competitive folks to really go after (those that aren't driving all over the country ever weekend).

The organization HAS to evolve, and without individuals with a larger business knowledge, removing the petty crap, and getting committees that are focused at moving the organization from a semi-regional organization to a true National footprint, it just won't work.

barbefunkoramaque
05-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Its very simple, unless the KCBS gets over its funk regarding the situation with the girls in the group trying to make their own music so forth, and it's on and off relationship with Appolonia, and unless it starts making music that pleases the crowd, then it will be replaced by Morris' Girl Group that did well at the Taste the other night.

Like Billy said after the KCBS performed "SEX SHooter, "I already got three groups, I don't need fo'!"

Of course, if the father were to blow his brains out after an argument with the wife, well then, the KCBS might take into consideration the stuff Lisa and Wendy made and go BACK to the stage and really whip ass.... I mean perform so good that even Morris and Jerome would be dancing by the bar.

Slamdunkpro
05-17-2010, 03:04 PM
The cynical view.

KCBS wants to be NASCAR. It's becoming all about the money. The direction that I'm seeing is to go to "Superstar" big money made for TV (possible invitation only) comps just like what happened to poker a few years ago. KCBS's only interest in local events it twofold:


Judging classes - Where the bulk of new KCBS members come from IMHO. Every class generates $40 per student in additional voting members that may or may not have more than a casual interest in KCBS itself. These members probably only stay for a year or two but they serve to dilute the voting pool.



Dead Money Competitors - Dead money is another poker term for those that enter events but have no shot at the major overall prizes. In KCBS's case, TOY. They want the fees from those casual 2-3 comps per year teams.

Other than that, don't call us, we'll call you.

There was a good point about KCBS committees brought up during the last election . What members are actually on these committees and how does the general membership get involved. I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Truthfully, I don't think KCBS really wants general membership involvement (other than dues)

Remember that not for profit and (non-charitable) non-profits are allowed to generate revenue and disperse it as they see fit and long as they don't pay dividends. Somebody is making money off all this revenue coming in.

Ford
05-17-2010, 03:06 PM
Ford I'm not sure I'm understanding #4 - is that a suggestion or is it more of a legal issue with non-for-profits and large pay-outs? For whatever reason 10.5K seems to be the payout for a good amount of 65-100 team comps around here.

If limiting the payout is a suggestion, please provide a little background on your thinking to help me understand.

I have not voted yet, but right now I lean towards both the big and small comps.
Option 4 is not part of this poll just my original post. Limits on characters for posts.

But mybe all the big money is clouding judgement and we need to limit KCBS payouts. Then the real big money can do their own thing. Personally I think we need both big and small but we need to do something or people are going to feel left out. 30K for TOY and how many can share in it - Max of 2 overall plus 5 or 10 per category (can't remember what was voted) teams and there will probably be a lot of overlap. So a select few who cook 25-30 or more contests will benefit. Hardly a fair sharing of funds.

KC_Bobby
05-17-2010, 03:13 PM
Thanks for more info.

I respect your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with them, I have mixed feelings.

I'd maybe suggest the 10K turns in 15K or such as the limit as it sure is nice for us small guys to get a call or two and be able to recoup a large part of our weekend investment (or even come out a few $ ahead) without having to win GC or RCG to do so.

Jorge
05-17-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm still contemplating my vote.

I'm not seeing a reason that KCBS can't do ALL of the things you've listed. On paper, KCBS exists for the purpose of promoting BBQ and providing education about the same. I don't see competition as being exclusive to that goal, and actually seeing it as being an avenue to accomplish it as I'm sure the founders of KCBS did.

I'm not seeing the difference in the size of the payout, or contest either if the infrastructure is there. Are there enough Reps? If there are, then KCBS takes the check if everything else is in place and the contest qualifies for sanctioning.

With that being said, I WOULD like to see some emphasis put on a program or programs to assist small/startup contests. The Competitor series is a great start! Those type contests are where this organization began if I understand the history correctly.

Frankkly, I don't care what a contest pays. The organizer is responsible for raising funds to pay the teams. If an organizer can raise $100k, that benefits the teams that are willing to make the trip and take their chances. If an organizer can raise $5k, and put on a great contest and do it on a regular basis they are making a great contribution to BBQ and more than likely get teams that are willing to return as well. The money I'm concerned about, is what comes in to KCBS and more importantly what is done with it.

I think there is enough pie to go around. It just needs to be thought out, and planned for over the long haul rather than for the next 6 to 12 months.

Thanks for making me think, Ford.

HoDeDo
05-17-2010, 05:52 PM
Big contests bring the bigger sponsors... which then allow you to fund all the educational exploits to help grow the smaller events. I think you have to have both.

Rookie'48
05-17-2010, 11:00 PM
I voted for both. Andy ^^^^^ put it pretty good.

The big comps with the big pay-outs are great publicity for our sport - you know the ones I mean: "So & So wins GC at XYZ's $100,000.00 BBQ contest". That headline brings in even more sponsers, teams and dollars to the game.
But what about "Fred's ECB BBQ Team"? The guy that's just starting out and can't afford, or justify, spending a grand to enter a contest? We need the smaller comps to get the teams formed up, entered and having fun at a comp before they decide to go "whole hog".
Think of the smaller comps as the minor leagues and the bigger ones the majors. How many teams just jumped in with both feet at a major comp? Yeah, I know that there are some, but most cooks started out thinking "Well, I'll give this a try & see what happens". Then they get a call or two & they're hooked on this crazy game called BBQ.

tmcmaster
05-17-2010, 11:25 PM
The cynical view.

KCBS wants to be NASCAR. It's becoming all about the money. The direction that I'm seeing is to go to "Superstar" big money made for TV (possible invitation only) comps just like what happened to poker a few years ago. KCBS's only interest in local events it twofold:


Judging classes - Where the bulk of new KCBS members come from IMHO. Every class generates $40 per student in additional voting members that may or may not have more than a casual interest in KCBS itself. These members probably only stay for a year or two but they serve to dilute the voting pool.



Dead Money Competitors - Dead money is another poker term for those that enter events but have no shot at the major overall prizes. In KCBS's case, TOY. They want the fees from those casual 2-3 comps per year teams.

Other than that, don't call us, we'll call you.

There was a good point about KCBS committees brought up during the last election . What members are actually on these committees and how does the general membership get involved. I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Truthfully, I don't think KCBS really wants general membership involvement (other than dues)

Remember that not for profit and (non-charitable) non-profits are allowed to generate revenue and disperse it as they see fit and long as they don't pay dividends. Somebody is making money off all this revenue coming in.
Kind of what I was trying to get at on the MABA call last week... Only not as articulate.

Diver
05-18-2010, 08:52 AM
I should learn to read before voting. I read the thread topic and immediately chose large comps because that appears to be the way KCBS is headed.

My actual position is that there is no reason that all of the above cannot be accomplished. The KCBS mission is "to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. We want barbeque to be recognized as America's Cuisine". If that is truly the mission, success will not be achieved with just one or the other. There wil be growing pains aplenty and like it or not change happens. Change will have to be managed by the duly elected BOD and we as members have to become active participants and have the responsibility to elect the best, monitor the results and change as needed.

Basically, achieving our goal comes down to marketing. There are 2 levels.
1. We have to effectively market BBQ as a sport to sponsors to keep the sport alive. I think KCBS is doing a pretty good job here.
2. We need to market BBQ as a life style because it is truly "America's Cuisine". All of the pics on this forum alone of parents and children BBQing together are a testament to the importance of maintaining certain American traditions - especially ones that bring families closer. Marketing BBQ as a lifestyle needs the smaller comp/community involvement apsect. In today's fast paced society, the most effective marketing is local. We no longer live in a time with 3 tv stations where big ads were about all it took. Marketing in today's environment requires action or as Levinson coined, Guerilla Marketing. I see the larger comps, tv shows etc as old model paid advertising - less effective at getting the message out than it once was but still effective at reaching a large group and delivering parts of your message. That makes Promoting / supporting the smaller local comps and community involvement guerilla style community marketing. Just like building a business, we have to employ a comprehensive marketing / PR strategy to achieve our mission.

So, I say all of the above.

pahutchens
05-18-2010, 09:16 AM
I think we need both as a new member and new judge. I'm striving to make better Q for me and mine. I don't see myself competing any time soon.
That said there are a lot of Non profit hospitals that make huge money, its all about dividends that not being paid. Yes the money is out there and has to be recycled into KCBS how and where will become even more contentious over time.
As a sport there is one perspective, its a competition. Be it a 'sand lot' or 'Yankee stadium.' I personally am disgusted with how sports evolve into the big money contracts over/instead of love of the game. I could go into a rant but...

Is our goal goal to promote egos or BBQ. I'm not dissing our winners not by a long shot the ones here (the only ones I 'know') are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge and experience.

At MN in May there were probably 30-40% new judges. (Popped my Judge cherry) I didn't get much of chance to talk to the teams, couldn't before judging and everyone looked either busy or tired afterwards. The rigs I saw damn. I'm having trouble just hiding some money aside to finish my UDS. I know its not the cooker its the cook but looking at some of the setups you have to wonder if that isn't what we tell ourselves.

Will KCBS embrace the Brethren motto? And maybe that is the challenge and question for them. And also for US, do we want KCBS to be more like the Brethren?

Candy Sue
05-18-2010, 11:15 AM
I had to go back and read the Welcome page again after your post...Thanks, it was a warm fuzzy moment! In my opinion, there should be plenty of KCBS room for big, small and backyard contests. Big and small educational type events as part of and separate from contests should be accomodated too. Kids are important, too, they are the future.

BBQchef33
05-27-2010, 10:39 AM
i voted for BOTH, small and Big.

The reasoning is simple.. Small contests turn into bigger contests each year.

The attendance at our Sayville contest increased by 30% each year. Ignore the small contests, and let them die off due to lack of attention and support and all that will be left are the standard established contests with no new blood or growth.

timzcardz
05-27-2010, 11:05 AM
I voted both because it is probably the best means for them to achieve their commitment and stated to IRS purpose of education.

Until it is decided to abandon the not for profit status the focus should be on education and the contests should simply be one of the means for fulfillig that purpose.

PimpSmoke
05-27-2010, 04:16 PM
I certainly like to see the big comps for some of the top guns. I also like to attend those to spectate. On the other hand, I would love to see more comps with some smaller buy ins for the poor folk like me that can only afford one or two a year.

Or get the sponsors to do some type of "scholarship" or similar entry fee sponsorship program for teams that don't win a ton of GC or RGC. Drawing the line as to who, and who wouldn't be eligible for help would be tough. Possibly by allowing them to payback the buy ins from any winnings?

tmcmaster
05-27-2010, 07:08 PM
I think they are heading towards eliminating smaller contests in their entirety. With the TLC show and the mega-mega contests, the smalelr contests are getting the short end of the stick.

CajunSmoker
05-27-2010, 07:16 PM
I voted for both. I think just because you grow your business to th point where you have large customers, doesn't mean you should forget the little people who got you where you are. Like Andy said, subsidise the small contests with the earnings from the large ones. It shouldn't be hard to put a business model together that would do that.

White Dog BBQ
05-27-2010, 10:31 PM
I voted for both. The Board would have to be populated by the biggest fools this side of Washington to drop the small contests in favor of the big ones. Every successful, major sports/competition league knows you need a development system to bring in new talent year after year, or the product grows stale quickly.

I do agree with those who have said that we will some day see a circuit of invitation-only, big money contests. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as enough attention is paid to the smaller contests and us peons (who hope someday to be invited to the new big money contests).

Erik

DawgPhan
05-28-2010, 08:17 AM
A couple of questions...

First off, what is a smaller contest?

What makes people think that KCBS is some how eliminating or even moving towards eliminating "smaller" contests?

Seems like new contests are sanctioned each year, some make it and some dont. I havent seen anything by KCBS that makes it more difficult to be sanctioned or anything else that would hurt someone's chances of becoming sanctioned.

What can KCBS specifically do to support smaller contests?

I am all for helping improve the quality of contests from the bottom up. Providing support and funds to get power and water at every contest would be my top priority.

smoke-n-my-i's
05-28-2010, 07:25 PM
I basically cook just a few comps a year. Last year, I was only able to do two, 1 KCBS,and 1 FBA. I did help out another team with totaled abt 17 in all.

I tend to only do the smaller events only to help my odds of hopefully getting a decent score to be in the middle of the pack, which I have so far been able to do. Now if there were only "larger" comps, lets say the aforementioned 100 teams, most likely I would be in the bottom 20% give or take a few places. Do you think I would continue competing? Most likely not. So that is why I support the smaller comps. It gives us smaller teams that only due a few a year a place to go and at least have room to spread our elbows out, and have a good time. The large ones are nice, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel all the comfy there when all of the larger teams that win week after week are there which only makes it harder for me to even want to try... give the small events a boost.

And after reading more, yes, get a push on the backyard teams, who will one day most likely move up to the pro division later on.

michiana mark
05-29-2010, 02:11 AM
i voted for BOTH, small and Big.

The reasoning is simple.. Small contests turn into bigger contests each year.

The attendance at our Sayville contest increased by 30% each year. Ignore the small contests, and let them die off due to lack of attention and support and all that will be left are the standard established contests with no new blood or growth.

Ditto

CTSmokehouse
05-30-2010, 10:20 PM
[QUOTE=BBQchef33;1293960]i voted for BOTH, small and Big.

The reasoning is simple.. Small contests turn into bigger contests each year.

The attendance at our Sayville contest increased by 30% each year. Ignore the small contests, and let them die off due to lack of attention and support and all that will be left are the standard established contests with no new blood or growth.[/QUhappOTE]

I totally agree... I enjoy cooking at small contests that become bigger contests...Because the people involved are listening to the needs of the Quers and public and trying improve each year....meaning it gets better each year....something to look forward to...in the case of Blues, Views and BBQ, Westport CT...sad to say it's not going to happen...it was my favorite...and around the time of my BD...may be going to Harvard this year...

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

lbmksu
06-18-2010, 02:06 PM
I'm new to the nuances of BBQ politics, but I dont compete for the prize money. In fact, I only compete once per year. If I do well, I'm happy. If I dont, I had a good time. What I have seen is that the KCBS seems to add additional constraints to smaller contests which create a great environment for traveling teams who are shopping for points. Whats lost is the hometown feel of the contests where the teams are competing against others in their neighborhood/city. I think the KCBS should stay out of the small town contests except as a rules guideline and to create excitement for regional contests by inviting the winners to larger events.

OK...I'm ready to get hammered on this. Go for it.

Jorge
06-18-2010, 02:40 PM
KCBS doesn't put on a contest. They have nothing to invite anyone to.

MilitantSquatter
06-18-2010, 02:46 PM
What I have seen is that the KCBS seems to add additional constraints to smaller contests which create a great environment for traveling teams who are shopping for points. Whats lost is the hometown feel of the contests where the teams are competing against others in their neighborhood/city.

OK...I'm ready to get hammered on this. Go for it.

Just curious - What you mean by additional constraints ?

Remember - the contest organizer chooses to be KCBS sanctioned, it's not a requirement. If an organizer wants a local feel & local teams only, they don't need to get KCBS support which aside from the rules/scoring also makes the contest known to a broader pool of teams outside the local area.

lbmksu
06-18-2010, 02:57 PM
Good point, but the main idea is still valid. The excitement of local competition is lost when the bulk of the competitors are not even from the same state/region. The small local contests were built on just that...local competition. I argue that KCBS is discouraging new competitors by helping to justify traveling troupes who overtake the local contest and make no room for the locals. If the KCBS were to concentrate on the medium and large competitions, this would give the small time guy something to aspire to without being immediately crushed in their local competition by they guys that won the Jack Daniels last year.

lbmksu
06-18-2010, 03:10 PM
True, the organizer does not need to have their contest be KCBS sanctioned. However, in today's world, you are not likely to be regarded as a real competition unless you get it. On the other hand, the rules are a great tool on how to run a contest. Additionally, the organizers always want their contest to grow and become a major competition. What I'm saying is that some contests were better in their infancy than they are now, while others have grown so much that they are well-respected regional and national competitions. The KCBS may be inadvertently assisting the organizers in losing sight of their original intent.

MilitantSquatter
06-18-2010, 03:13 PM
Respectfully, I don't think the the main idea is valid. What determines the geographic area that is still acceptable to be classified as "local" ? 5 miles ? 10 miles ? 50 miles ? The local teams have the same opportunity to submit an application in a timely manner as anyone else. The small time guy is gonna lose either way if his/her BBQ is not up to par no matter where the teams are from. Most teams who travel are not pulling in with mobile homes.. They are towing the same small to mid size cargo trailers as everyone else.

You're point rest solely with the contest organizer or all the teams who support it.

lbmksu
06-18-2010, 03:13 PM
By constraints...
The biggie...If you want to be considered a real contest, you must be KCBS sanctioned.

Jorge
06-18-2010, 03:29 PM
If a contest doesn't reach 50 teams, I don't think it's going to draw many teams that are chasing points.

Second, I think it is up to the organizer how big any contest will become. If they have a good date, location, prize list, make it cooker friendly, and do a good job promoting the event...it's going to grow.

If you want to see a local contest stay small, then I'd suggest talking to the organizer about limiting the # of entries and make sure that your friends in neighbors get their checks in early. I just don't see any role for KCBS in doing that.

lbmksu
06-18-2010, 03:30 PM
BBQ competition has grown so much in the past 25 years that I have been involved in it. I'm not saying I know how it all works because I dont have time (or the money) to hit more than one competition per year, even though I wish I could.

I'm posting a theoretical argument that I hope will create conversation to make the competition future better for both those that are the masters of BBQ, and the guy doing his first competition.

My argument is that there needs to be a niche for the first timer to get a glimmer of success by not competing with 100 other teams who may get an 8 because they had a really terrible day.

CBQ
06-18-2010, 08:33 PM
Good point, but the main idea is still valid. The excitement of local competition is lost when the bulk of the competitors are not even from the same state/region.

Well, it's different in different regions. I'm sure in Kansas there are lots of events. Here in the northeast teams drive several hundred miles to a contest because they have to, not because they are point whores. :-P There are cuirrently NO contests in my home state, so I am always an "out of state" team. If I limited myself to events within a 2 hour drive, I could do 3 events a year max.

Anyway, I think KCBS needs to continue to sanction both large and small contests, and promote the sport. I don't see why these have to be mutually exclusive activities.

The big entry fees at the mega events mostly go to event expenses and back to the teams as payouts. Does KCBS really benefit more (in terms of revenue) at a single contest with 200 judges vs. 4 contests with 50 judges?

Jorge
06-18-2010, 09:25 PM
Earlier I forgot that KCBS does have the competitor, or competition, sanctioning available.


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Boss Hog Wild
07-02-2010, 01:40 PM
Ford... ask me after UP Hog Wild :crazy: As many of you know, I sit as an organizer in a VERY small market, with almost no corporate suport left due to a hard hit local economy.... Add on to it the fact that we are trying to bring Q to a region it hasn't been before... and that we are 150 miles away from our closest other KCBS competition. In conversaton amongst organizers we have found that unless you are doing at least $10,000 in prize money, you are not going to have the magic to draw the teams.... So we have to try to do EVERYTHING the absolute best that we can to attract both teams and judges..... Add on to that the fact that we also have to do EVERYTHING we can to draw in thousands of guests through the addmission gates...... music, car shows, rides and games..... Let me find that avitar again :crazy:.... But we do it for the kid's charities we try to support... and the love of the friendship we have found in the bbq community. It's wonderful to see the sport growing..... and I have learned to accept the reality of the limits we face here in the UP.

Rickwieser
07-15-2010, 08:10 AM
Its all about the money. Sadly we may see the contest for the average guy slowly disappear. When we saw kcbs shed theyre not for profit status we saw the end of an era. Now its all about TOY tv shows and big sponsorship. Maybe its time for a new Organization to sprout up and become what kcbs should be. In all fairness there have been some improvements like a working website. But it all goes back to my origional statement. Its all about the money.

Desertdog
08-24-2010, 06:25 PM
Its all about the money. Sadly we may see the contest for the average guy slowly disappear. When we saw kcbs shed theyre not for profit status we saw the end of an era. Now its all about TOY tv shows and big sponsorship. Maybe its time for a new Organization to sprout up and become what kcbs should be. In all fairness there have been some improvements like a working website. But it all goes back to my origional statement. Its all about the money.


Wouldn't that be nice. Especially given the circumstances here in AZ lately.

ThomEmery
08-24-2010, 06:56 PM
Keeping both large and small contests alive and well
is the best plan for long term health of the organization

gooose53
12-18-2010, 10:15 AM
I do only one KCBS contest a year in Franklin, NC. South Carolina has a judging organization called the SCBA - South Carolina BBQ Assoc. We had 27 contests in SC this year. I did 11 of those contests. I would probably do more KCBS contests if they were closer. Contests keep growing and more of them are being scheduled all the time. You don't need a big organization like KCBS to have a contest....

Hogtie N' Ride
12-30-2010, 01:58 PM
The KCBS is about promoting BBQ. Big event, small event, Kids Q, classes, merchandise, big money, small money, and thousands of other methods. There is room for all of us in this sport.

We judge, compete, and organize. (Everyone should do all three, it promotes understanding)

We organize PoorQue for many of the reasons above. Our competition is NOT about the money, instead about the Sport. We have seen nothing but support from the KCBS on this event. Both Regional Competitors and Local Rookies made it last year and we expect the same this year. We wish there were dozens of PoorQue competitions out there so we could afford to compete more than a couple of times a year ourselves. http://poorque.web.officelive.com We also enjoy the larger events and attend them. We enjoy our road trips to the Jack and Royal. BBQ is a family we love and support and want to promote for everyone!

ClayHill
12-30-2010, 02:47 PM
We organize PoorQue for many of the reasons above. Our competition is NOT about the money, instead about the Sport. We have seen nothing but support from the KCBS on this event. Both Regional Competitors and Local Rookies made it last year and we expect the same this year. We wish there were dozens of PoorQue competitions out there so we could afford to compete more than a couple of times a year ourselves. http://poorque.web.officelive.com

I like it!!!!