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Merl
05-16-2010, 09:08 AM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

Rub
05-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Guess I've been reading the wrong posts; I'm not seeing it.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-16-2010, 09:20 AM
Merl you are way off on this one in my opinion!

LMAJ
05-16-2010, 09:23 AM
I'm with Rub - haven't been reading as much as I had in the past, but in what I have read I haven't seen it. I usually check out Q-Talk and New Posts which is how I came across your post. Perhaps it's happening in a particular sub forum??

Brauma
05-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I know I've been a little light on the forum the past few weeks but I have seen it either. What did I miss?

ThomEmery
05-16-2010, 09:27 AM
Hummmmm
I do not think so
Rapid growth is creating a different feel

I do know BBQ on Facebook
is exploding because of the control
you have as a user

tmcmaster
05-16-2010, 09:27 AM
I also haven't seen that. I have seen it be just exactly the opposite, in fact. Members helping members, Mods helping members and not being 'power savage' about it... Merl, can you cite any actual examples of this?

Sledneck
05-16-2010, 09:30 AM
Well merl since you asked. The only place where I have seen the forum go to sh it is where you and candy were bickering like ashholes on this thread---> http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84400 other than that business as usual. You guys should be embarrassed, you got a lot of balls calling out this forum

tmcmaster
05-16-2010, 09:34 AM
Well merl since you asked. The only place where I have seen the forum go to sh it is where you and candy were bickering like ashholes on this thread---> http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84400 other than that business as usual. You guys should be embarrassed, you got a lot of balls calling out this forum

:doh::tape::icon_shy

billm
05-16-2010, 09:38 AM
cant agree at all on that
there will always be some pissing contests on forums..but I think out of all the BBQ forums I frequent this one has the least amount

C Rocke
05-16-2010, 09:39 AM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl


Was this post meant for another Web site forum???

bigabyte
05-16-2010, 09:46 AM
I haven't seen this at all. In fact, this place is light years ahead of every other forum in terms of how well it is fairly moderated, and in how well members behave. Perhaps you are confusing another forums posts with this one?

I sure hope this forum isn't being called out for having frank discussions about KCBS board events as some sort of defensive move to try and discredit these forums as a valid source of information.

ThomEmery
05-16-2010, 09:49 AM
Was this post meant for another Web site forum???

:) Hopefully

butt head
05-16-2010, 10:03 AM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl
and thier go's the last bit of respect i had for the BOD. Thought you were better then this Merl !

Jorge
05-16-2010, 10:32 AM
Which moderator(s) did you have in mind? Based on some of my recent comments, I'm guessing that I've made the list.

If you take issue with comments that I have made as a "member" I'd suggest that you address me as a member. That's how I will treat you. If you choose to call out a moderator or the moderators as a group, I'll be happy to address that issue as a moderator. The forum rules are clear when it comes to calling a moderator out in public.

That being said, I live my life according to Big Boy Rules. You are more than welcome to bring any and all issues to me in any form your choose. I've got no problem accepting responsibility for my actions.

HoDeDo
05-16-2010, 10:32 AM
Merl - The beauty of this forum is that folks can have debates, and get into minutea on methods, etc, and 9 times out of 10 it does not get out of control. Or at the end of the day, its just like an old buddy brawl, after you are done fightin' , you get up dust yourselves off and buy each other a round. THAT is the difference.

On "other" forums, your post would have already been deleted before I had a chance to read it. This place isnt a pulpit for anyone. It is open exchange and free flow of info... and sometimes that can get heated.

We are all adults here and enjoy the banter that happens in the normal course of things.
Hats off to our mods, and the majority of the members who keep this place the way I like it. I'm not around nearly as much these days, just been too busy.... is it always a place I look FORWARD to being on when I jack into the old internet.

MilitantSquatter
05-16-2010, 10:37 AM
Geez... thanks Merl..

Makes me feel like the countless hours I and the rest of the moderator team spends reading and cleaning up occasional messes is a waste of time.


Your issues point more to a KCBS issue than a forum issue.. I think it's time to look at the common denominator.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-16-2010, 10:40 AM
Your issues point more to a KCBS issue than a forum issue..

I think it's time to look at the common denominator.

Vinny very well said!

The_Kapn
05-16-2010, 10:43 AM
Seldom do I run out of the proper words, but:

I am just (almost) speechless over this thread.

And, BTW, it belongs in Woodpile (most likely) or D & R at best.
Nothing to do in any way, shape, or form to Competition.

TIM

daedalus
05-16-2010, 10:51 AM
I think I understand where you are coming from Merl, but for me, the main reason that I am a paying member of this forum is because I don't see very much of that sort of thing on it. It has been my experience that members who are just here to cause trouble and flame anyone they can usually get weeded out pretty quickly by the people on this forum who want to have real discussions about BBQ.

Having said that, I do think that it is completely valid and legitimate for members and moderators to engage in frank and honest discussion about things that affect this hobby/sport. There is no reason why these discussions should not involve subject such as unhappiness with BOD policies, methods, politics etc. Obviously, in an ideal world these discussions should stop short of getting adversarial and personal, but we are all human, and tend to lash out when we get our feelings hurt. Also, some people just really like to stir things up and watch the chaos ensue. Personally, if I see a thread degenerate into that sort of ugliness, I simply stop following that one. This forum is diverse enough to offer plenty of other threads to participate in.

As for this forum going the way of other forums, I agree with Bigabyte. This forum is infinitely more civil than any other one I have ever seen, and while it may not be perfect, I am willing to put up with the occasional jerk in order to be a part of the best, most informative, cooperative, and friendly forum on the web.

Dylan's Dad
05-16-2010, 10:58 AM
I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits me the wrong way.

This has to be meant for another forum.

motoeric
05-16-2010, 10:59 AM
Andy had an excellent point in that on other prominent BBQ forums (maybe not plural) this thread would have been deleted.

I'm proud to belong to a forum that will allow self criticism regardless of the perceived validity of those claims.

I also agree with the other poster who questioned why this was in the competition sub-forum. Since it's here I assume that Merl is referencing problems in this area and like it or not, this area is dominated by discussions related to the KCBS. So where in discussions that involve the KCBS has the atmosphere become rancorous?

I hope that Merl will chime back in and offer some specifics.

Eric

motoeric
05-16-2010, 11:04 AM
I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits me the wrong way.
.

Exhausted is a good concern, but you shouldn't be worried about being new. Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses and I'm sure that we all welcome your input.

Eric

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-16-2010, 11:29 AM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

Sorry to hear it, I'm happy here :clap2:

Derek
05-16-2010, 11:32 AM
You know, after being here for a while I've made a few mistakes that would have gotten me banned in other forums, but instead of being pissy about it and pouting off? I've talked to a few mods, They calmed me and been rash with my mistakes.

They even called them mistakes and I know I might have lost a friend or 2 with my dry sense of humor, Or even a rude comment by accident I do try to apologize here.

I've never even had any real friends until now thanks to the bbq brethren site, and the great lakes bbq forum.

I've even got a few mods as friends, on other sites ( music ) if you just caugh near a mod on those sites or if you had a guitar they wanted on those sites, they would ban you for ever ) and say your not wanted here anymore go find a different home.

Anyways what I'm trying to bable or say, This forum is one of the best I've ever been too and I actually got real friends here. and it sure feels nice.

Merl maybe you got to rethink what you say? I know I've learned to think first. and I'm hoping those lost friends will come back when I've stayed here for another 6 months or so.

HoDeDo
05-16-2010, 11:36 AM
I am new and shouldn't post when I am exhausted. But seeing this first thing after spending the past 24 hours with a great group of Brethren from 7 different states at PGBBQ 2010 in Dayton really hits mthat e the wrong way.This has to be meant for another forum.

I know its a little bit of thread drift. but it's always nice to hear when a group gets together..I have to say, some of my best friends are folks I have met here. Granted some of the KC locals, I would have met anyway... But Plowboy, Big Creek, Moo Cow and others I met via this forum first (would have likely met them anyway). I have some pretty amazing relationships that were fostered right here. I can be almost anywhere in the country and run into someone that I consider a dear friend. That is due to this place. Period. I have friends from Los Angeles to Lake Placid, and the UP to Houston... I couldnt have met those folks, and enriched the life of my family the way I have without help from this little corner of the BBQ world. So Merl,

I think I understand where you are coming from Merl, but for me, the main reason that I am a paying member of this forum is because I don't see very much of that sort of thing on it. It has been my experience that members who are just here to cause trouble and flame anyone they can usually get weeded out pretty quickly by the people on this forum who want to have real discussions about BBQ.

Having said that, I do think that it is completely valid and legitimate for members and moderators to engage in frank and honest discussion about things that affect this hobby/sport. There is no reason why these discussions should not involve subject such as unhappiness with BOD policies, methods, politics etc. Obviously, in an ideal world these discussions should stop short of getting adversarial and personal, but we are all human, and tend to lash out when we get our feelings hurt. Also, some people just really like to stir things up and watch the chaos ensue. Personally, if I see a thread degenerate into that sort of ugliness, I simply stop following that one. This forum is diverse enough to offer plenty of other threads to participate in.

As for this forum going the way of other forums, I agree with Bigabyte. This forum is infinitely more civil than any other one I have ever seen, and while it may not be perfect, I am willing to put up with the occasional jerk in order to be a part of the best, most informative, cooperative, and friendly forum on the web.

I agree 100%. I noted earlier I had not been on as often as usual... this week I had 12 pages of threads I had not read when I logged in... over 450. The only ones that had any "heat" to them at all, were the ones over the board meeting.

I went and read the posts referred to by Jorge, and his posts are all matter of fact, statements, about how he plans to try to impact things in the BBQ sociecty he's a member of. No name calling, no personal accusations, etc. I think it is wonderful that folks can talk about such things here without risk of retribution, and censorship via overmoderation.
Thanks again to all the Mods. You do thankless work to keep this place the way it is. And thanks to the members that care enough to play by the rules. I think before anyone starts making accusations about this forum, they should look at ALL the places there are to go here... a HUGE portion of it has nothing to do with comps or KCBS. Read about the bashes, read about the new brisket temps, read about folks tribulations with vending... go vote for a Big Mista Vendy award.... I could fill 10 pages with all of the OTHER stuff going on here that has nothing to do with KCBS or Comps. Love this place. thanks.

Brauma
05-16-2010, 12:01 PM
I know I've been a little light on the forum the past few weeks but I have seen it either. What did I miss?

Oooohh... now I see.

just FYI, this is why I didnt re-up my KCBS membership. Way too much BS/drama/politics goin on on the BOD. Since nothing changed, I changed. I'm going to get more involved with my local BBQ organization - MABA.

BBQchef33
05-16-2010, 12:11 PM
ADMIN RESPONSE: You point ME to one thread where a moderator, ACTING AS A MODERATOR and NOT A MEMBER has overstepped a boundary or broken one of our rules and i will address it. Moderators live to a tighter standard here than members and I have yet to see one abuse that privledge.

Our moderators however ARE STILL MEMBERS and are entitled to voice their personal opinions. When they are acting in an official capacity, it is stated as 'MOD NOTE", 'ADMIN NOTE', and sometimes even posted in assigned color(green for moderators, red for admins). There should never be any confusion when staff is acting in official capacity as opposed to personal.

I have stated time and time again, we are about FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION. Moderators are instructed to NEVER moderate on content and to enforce a VERY, sometimes OVERLY detailed set of rules. This also holds true for members who can not expect us to stifle another members opinions or statements because they, or someone doesn't like hearing it. Open, frank discussions, that as long as they are within our guidelines, and remain civil will ALWAYS be allowed on this forum. When required, moderators will step in to put a conversation back on track and defuse a possibly volatile situation before it spins out of control. This is done INSTEAD of shutting down or removing a thread, and it is only a last resort when we feel we can no longer control the situation or the thread has completely unraveled. Only then do we shut it down. Anything short of these efforts is censorship and we dont roll that way. If anyone prefers a forum where controversial or sensitive topics are sanitized or removed based on an alliance or emotion there are a few out there that will cater to you. WE ARE NOT ONE OF THEM.

We have had and always will have controversial discussions crop up that folks don't like, myself and staff included. But as much as I may dislike the content, topics or direction a thread is going, I WILL NEVER ALLOW CENSORSHIP. Unlike other forums, the administration here does not act out of personal opinions, alliances or emotion, but instead do their best to perform as professionally and as fairly as possible to enforce our rules.

With 1500+ posts a day, it is impossible to find each and every breach, and with that we do depend on our membership to not only police themselves, but other members thru the use of the 'report bad post' button. We receive many reports a day and each is evaluated. Determinations are made as to whether the reports are valid according to our guidelines.

I personally am extremely proud to have the moderating team that I do and I think they are one of the best ones around. Some of them have been in place for years, and they run this forum in my absence. I have no problem sleeping at night knowing it is in their hands.

If any member sees a problem they feel needs attention use that report button and it will be handled accordingly.



On a personal note: I thank the members in this thread who have stood up for our integrity, the direction of this forum and recognize the efforts we put into making this forum what it is. :thumb:

ique
05-16-2010, 01:11 PM
I am just asking your opinion.

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

I don't read all the posts but the only blasting I saw was between two members of the KCBS Board of Directors. To answer your question directly, No I dont think we need mods for the mods. As long as you remain civil and relatively on topic the mods let members speak their mind.

I find it odd that you would come in here and bash this forum when the KCBS board has not really been a shining example of civility under your tenure.

Jeff S.
05-16-2010, 01:22 PM
WOW! I am very new here but I gotta tell you, you are way off base.

There maybe an occasion where someone feels attacked and responds accordingly, but as far as what you are saying about the online enquirer, you could not be more mistaken.

This is a great forum, with tons of good info, and a ton of great members. People dont always see "Eye to Eye" thats what makes America, and this forum a great place to be.

If you are not liking what you are reading, then maybe the problem is you and not this forum. After all,

It is the "I" behind the eye that see's.

WannaBeBBQueen
05-16-2010, 01:41 PM
It's a shame we have to defend a place we love so much...

It's always felt like family to me.

monty3777
05-16-2010, 02:07 PM
I'm calling bullchit on this thread. I disagreed with some points made in a thread by a moderator (Jorge) and he responded like a brother - not like the Minister of Propaganda on other forums.He disagreed. He DIDN'T delete me or edit my thoughts. He respected them. We are all treated with nothing but respect here (even when we don't deserve it).

ZILLA
05-16-2010, 02:58 PM
No, this forum is as stable and viable a discussion group as I've seen. Very solid indeed.

Jorge
05-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Mod Note: I've done some cleanup. There was one post that singled a particular member out. That was easy enough. I deleted a couple of posts from other members that chose to use that particular post as a debating point.

Report a post to the moderators that is a violation of the rules. That's why they exist.

Trucky1008
05-16-2010, 04:28 PM
I'm not seeing it at all. This is hands down the best forum available. Thank you to all the Mods for the wonderful job that you do. And thank you to all the members that share their experience and love for the art of Q'ing. I've learned so much from this forum.

Podge
05-16-2010, 04:46 PM
The mods have a thankless job.. But we all need to recoginize what they do for this forum !!.. :becky::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

As far as this forum going to hell in a handbasket.. well, I do not see it as such.. They only complaints the really get to me is the ones about the BoD of KCBS.. The others are just conflicts in personality and people taking the written word the wrong way.. Lord knows 99% of the people on here mean well.

TactTm1
05-16-2010, 05:09 PM
I've only been here a couple weeks but have scanned many of the threads and posts throughout the Forum in order to get a feel for things.

As a member of other Forums (non-bbq related) it appears that this Forum does a great job of having members who actually help and answer and teach and communicate....whereas some other boards flame, insult and make newbies feel dumb.

I haven't (yet) experienced that here and I really doubt I will!


Now, about getting those coals really hot, how should I......:wink:

BobBrisket
05-16-2010, 06:08 PM
Personally, I'm still waiting on evidence, examples, and over all proof. Been waiting ALL day too........still,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nothing.
I do, however, see TONS of support for what this forum IS, and what it WILL ALWAYS BE!!
THAT, is MORE than good enough for me. THAT is what makes OUR forum the MOST emulated and I'll say it "RESPECTED" of any other Q related forum.
As a new moderator, I do take exception to comments regarding how we moderate. Honestly, Merl, you have no idea. NO idea what it takes to keep the atmosphere and CULTURE here. I'm still in awe of the process and HONORED to be part of it.
You posed many questions. Questions which I am sure you have answers to. Let's hear them. Let's not talk in soft references or weak generalizations. Let's get it all out there, and only from total and real honesty, can we more this issue forward.

Thanks.

Bob

barbefunkoramaque
05-16-2010, 06:29 PM
i AM living proof and my growth here is proof there is fairness in this forum. I get out of line, some mods put it bluntly, others a bit more nicely but eventually I come around because, well, love this forum like a hot underage cousin.

did I go over any lines? I seldom know these days.

No, this is malanced and fair forum. The mods are pretty even handed. Sure there are alliances.. its called friendship. BUT I DO NOT believe there is the same environment like there exist like in that suckhole forum which I will not say the name of.

I WOULD like some specifics though... I see none... maybe I have not been reading closely. Vinny made a good point... albeit poorly. what he means to say is probably...well, Popdaddy says "let's say you got one of those Brazilian Hookers shipped in and you just do not know how much wax and anal bleach your gonna need to get her all hairless in the right areas. You got to drop the drawers where everyone sees how big a thicket there is" So... drop her drawers and let's see how much wax we need.

I know, I know- "thanks to donnie for explaining something where we can all understand it."

landarc
05-16-2010, 06:32 PM
Or we can let this thread go where it should. I have been involved with many online forums for topics other than this, all of them are forums I have left just for the behavior I have seen here only in threads concerning criticism of the KCBS board. None of the other threads I have seen have been rancorous or confrontational. When the inevitable flare-ups have occurred, they have been settled. One of the things I have really disliked about the "board" threads is where a board member has posted something along the lines of "you can't know this, but, I know something you don't". Seems to me that there are a lot of unhappy people out there. I would also suggest, that instead of getting hurt feelings, the KCBS might want to hear people like Jorge, there are a lot of places for people to compete in BBQ comps, other organizations too. It would be a shame for the KCBS to lose it's way, or the support of forums like this considering all it has done to further both the world of competition BBQ and the popularity of BBQ in general.

Diva Q
05-16-2010, 06:35 PM
Seriously? Are you kidding me? I have found the folks here to be exceptionally helpful. They go out of their way to help. There are healthy discussions. Lively debates. I am not sure I understand where your basis for a statement like that comes from.

Bentley
05-16-2010, 06:38 PM
Well Merl, I think you got some opinions...I have not been on here much in the last 6 months due to other responsiblities...Before I could give you an informed opinion you would have to show me some examples...Sometimes its a tuff room to work Merl!

Meat Burner
05-16-2010, 07:11 PM
The civil responses should be enough to tell everyone why this is such a great forum. Hands down, the most helpful, unshellfish group of brothers and sisters passionate about helping other folk. The Mods are fantastic and I hope this thread shows them how much we honestly appreciate them.. Thanks everyone. Original post is waaayy off base IMHO.

ZILLA
05-16-2010, 07:39 PM
i AM living proof and my growth here is proof there is fairness in this forum. I get out of line, some mods put it bluntly, others a bit more nicely but eventually I come around because, well, love this forum like a hot underage cousin.

did I go over any lines? I seldom know these days.

No, this is malanced and fair forum. The mods are pretty even handed. Sure there are alliances.. its called friendship. BUT I DO NOT believe there is the same environment like there exist like in that suckhole forum which I will not say the name of (BBQ News).

I WOULD like some specifics though... I see none... maybe I have not been reading closely. Vinny made a good point... albeit poorly. what he means to say is probably...well, Popdaddy says "let's say you got one of those Brazilian Hookers shipped in and you just do not know how much wax and anal bleach your gonna need to get her all hairless in the right areas. You got to drop the drawers where everyone sees how big a thicket there is" So... drop her drawers and let's see how much wax we need.

I know, I know- "thanks to donnie for explaining something where we can all understand it."


Donnie, there is really no need for the wax. It's a state of mind. :heh:

Sticks-n-chicks
05-16-2010, 07:39 PM
I know its a little bit of thread drift. but it's always nice to hear when a group gets together..I have to say, some of my best friends are folks I have met here. Granted some of the KC locals, I would have met anyway... But Plowboy, Big Creek, Moo Cow and others I met via this forum first (would have likely met them anyway). I have some pretty amazing relationships that were fostered right here. I can be almost anywhere in the country and run into someone that I consider a dear friend. That is due to this place. Period. I have friends from Los Angeles to Lake Placid, and the UP to Houston... I couldnt have met those folks, and enriched the life of my family the way I have without help from this little corner of the BBQ world. So Merl,



I agree 100%. I noted earlier I had not been on as often as usual... this week I had 12 pages of threads I had not read when I logged in... over 450. The only ones that had any "heat" to them at all, were the ones over the board meeting.

I went and read the posts referred to by Jorge, and his posts are all matter of fact, statements, about how he plans to try to impact things in the BBQ sociecty he's a member of. No name calling, no personal accusations, etc. I think it is wonderful that folks can talk about such things here without risk of retribution, and censorship via overmoderation.
Thanks again to all the Mods. You do thankless work to keep this place the way it is. And thanks to the members that care enough to play by the rules. I think before anyone starts making accusations about this forum, they should look at ALL the places there are to go here... a HUGE portion of it has nothing to do with comps or KCBS. Read about the bashes, read about the new brisket temps, read about folks tribulations with vending... go vote for a Big Mista Vendy award.... I could fill 10 pages with all of the OTHER stuff going on here that has nothing to do with KCBS or Comps. Love this place. thanks.

I concur with Andy especially on the first paragraph I have made friends through this site that I would not have made. Friends that through this forum and nothing but this forum showed up at my first comp and checked in on me when I was cooking by myself (Kim and Jana). I would say the best friends I have came from BBQ and this site. I don't know if I could have made it through the last few months without them. Guys and Gals that have helped in more ways than just cooking. Great people ready to help in any way posible at the drop of a hat. I have had an offer from one guy (see above quote) to let me borrow his truck when mine broke down and I didn't know if I could get to a contest.

The point I am trying to make is just this....as with these friends arguments will happen and disagreements will continue. But I am a person that would rather argue my point with a buddy than sit around and think I am right! The diversity of opinion is what makes life interesting. Passion can be a good thing and bad thing but without it....there's nothing...

As for the MOD's great job and a great group of people.

Open forum...Open Learning...

Sledneck
05-16-2010, 08:19 PM
Oh man I cant believe we lost heavy metal icon Ronnie James Dio. I would say may he rest in peace, i doubt that's what he would want!!

Plowboy
05-16-2010, 08:26 PM
I come around because, well, love this forum like a hot underage cousin.


That is some funny chit right there.

The Turk
05-16-2010, 08:33 PM
Oh man I cant believe we lost heavy metal icon Ronnie James Dio. I would say may he rest in peace, i doubt that's what he would want!!

The world is full of Kings and Queens who'll blind your eyes and steal your dreams its Heaven and Hell, Ronnie James Dio circa 1980.

High Q
05-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Thanks Donnie for explaining something where I can understand it. I'm not sure I want to really visualize it, but at least I understand it.

moocow
05-16-2010, 09:58 PM
Sure there are things I don't like here, but for every one thing I don't like there are 10 things I do! If you want to know why the Brethren is diffrent than any other fourm find yourself a Brethren bash and go to it. You instantly find yourself belonging to another family who's interests are the same as yours. You might even run into several of those lousy MODS there and realize they are just like you and just doing the best they can. Do we really think they enjoy having to Mod someone, my guess it they would rather not do it! Are they right all of the time, NO but who is? I have no problem with the way they moderate and I appreciate it. Thanks Guys!! I love cooking BBQ at contest but the first thing I want to do when I get there is to look up all of the Brethren and see whats going on and ask how their trip in was. I am a proud member and get pissy when someone says something bad about the brethren. I don't think we should be to hard on Merl, he is welcome to share his own opinion. Everyone may not agree but if you listen to a podcast of the KCBS you will see that Merl puts his hart into it and try's to do a good job. He was very helpful in getting us the ability to listen to the meetings and I think him for posting the agenda and minuets here every month. We may not like the question he asked but we don't like the same UDS question that is asked for the 100th time either. Sometimes we just need to relax and consider that some people are just not as die-hard as we are and don't get what we get out of the Brethren. I love this place and it will take a lot to run me off!

Meat Burner
05-16-2010, 10:01 PM
Merl, you need to step up and defend/argue your intention with your post. This forum is open to any response...just respond or you may be proving the general feeling about the BOD not listening. Step up to the plate.

Jeff_in_KC
05-16-2010, 11:44 PM
I find it odd that you would come in here and bash this forum when the KCBS board has not really been a shining example of civility under your tenure.

Bam! Perfectly said, Chris. :amen: Typical.

Haltech
05-17-2010, 01:44 AM
Seems a few have let this competition world goto their heads. Ive gotten a lot out of this forum, became a member of this forum with a donation and support a few popular forum brethren with their competitions and products by purchasing from them. However, it doesnt give someone any right to slam this forum because they dont like how the KCBS info is coming about. Perhaps, those who no longer feel this forum offers them anything, just need to pack it and move along.

Hell, if you think you can do a better job, ill give you a vbulletin license and set it up for you. Ill laugh at you while you waller in failure. Believe me, if you think running a forum is turn key, you got another thing coming. I own 5 and its more work then you will ever imagine. 2 key ingredients are needed for a successful forum:

1) An administrator who cares and does not censor.
2) Members who support the direction in which the admin runs the forum. A member who feels THEY are apart of the forum and fill the forum with content.

If it was you on my forum chopping it down, you would of been moved to a useless usergroup called "banned" and let you figure out the rest from there. This whole competition forum seems to be filled with bs minute drama. My advice to you is, GET A LIFE and RETIRE if it really bothers you. Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out because you are just draggin the new members down. Its making members like me who are about to compete in KCBS double thinking their move and membership Merl.

Scottie
05-17-2010, 08:50 AM
Love the forum. It allows us to speak our minds. To a point of being uncivil and the mods move in to difuse the situation. My hat is off to them all for keeping civility and freedom of speech on this forum. Merl is allowed his opinion. We all have them. We might disagree but that is shat makes this place special.

I will say that Jorge is mean though . ..... ;) I'll pay for that one. I'll hide behind Todd....

Derek
05-17-2010, 08:54 AM
Love the forum. It allows us to speak our minds. To a point of being uncivil and the mods move in to difuse the situation. My hat is off to them all for keeping civility and freedom of speech on this forum. Merl is allowed his opinion. We all have them. We might disagree but that is shat makes this place special.

I will say that Jorge is mean though . ..... ;) I'll pay for that one. I'll hide behind Todd....He may be mean, but hes a cool mean though.

One of those ole cool mean guys.

Ut oh, I might be in the penalty box for that one!

bigabyte
05-17-2010, 08:56 AM
I've always found Jorge to have the appropriate temperament. Just look at his avatar! Who can argue with that?

Smokedelic
05-17-2010, 09:05 AM
So... I own 5 and its more work then you will ever imagine. 2 key ingredients are needed for a successful forum:

1) An administrator who cares and does not censor.
2) Members who support the direction in which the admin runs the forum. A member who feels THEY are apart of the forum and fill the forum with content.
and...
If it was you on my forum chopping it down, you would of been moved to a useless usergroup called "banned" and let you figure out the rest from there.

....interesting. :confused:

Divemaster
05-17-2010, 09:18 AM
It's a shame we have to defend a place we love so much...

It's always felt like family to me.
And we are family (and I'll always defend your honor!). I think that is what hurts.

Merl, you and I had a great opportunity to talk in Philly. I must say that I am now sorely disappointed in this thread. When we talked, you wanted to know how things should be on the BOD, what could make it better for the membership. I really thought you were listening to me and took my feelings and suggestions into account. Now I'm afraid it was all just politics.

To come here and blast people for expressing those same opinions that you asked me for just plain hurts. Do you really believe what you've written below?

I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl
To compare us to some fourth rate rag or third rate TV show after what I heard on the Pod cast and what you wrote in May 12, 2010 KCBS Bod agenda posted (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84400) is nothing less than deception and mud slinging. To be honest I've seen the show and now listened to the the BoD and I'm not sure which one is worse, at least we know what Springers motivation is.

I was afforded the wonderful occasion to spend close to 12 hours with my best friend and fellow BBQ'r this weekend. Much of that time was spent discussing the issues we had with KCBS and the BoD. There were times that we agreed and times we didn't, but at no time did either of us show anything but respect to each other. I'm sorry you could do the same for the Brethren.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-17-2010, 09:18 AM
Politics need to get out of BBQ. The start of this thread is a direct cheap shot from the thread BOD agenda where Candy and Merl had it out and people spoke their minds. I am as defensive as the next guy, but to feel cornered and come out and try and put down a forum and a bunch of people who volunteer their time to make this a great place is as pathetic as the fight in the other thread. Looks like you didn't get the support you expected. I would say this is a good time to back peddle or move on!

JD McGee
05-17-2010, 09:19 AM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

There are other bbq forums? :confused:

buttrubbersbbq
05-17-2010, 09:29 AM
Merl you asked for opinions, 60 replies later you still haven't returned with any kind of reply. either to show us what threads you are referring to or to say this was meant for another board. not just stirring the pot to prove a point are you?

southernsmoker
05-17-2010, 01:25 PM
I haven't seen it in my visits here either. I have been at a few Bbq forums and this one is the Jewel in the Crown.

Haltech
05-17-2010, 02:17 PM
So...
and...


....interesting. :confused:

There is censorship and there is outright slamming of a forum. Slamming the forum in such a way as comparing it to others in a negative light shall not have repercussions? Um ok

SmokinOkie
05-17-2010, 04:01 PM
Merl,

That might have been a statement you could have made in the past, but not recently. You probably missed the whole "kinder/gentler" forum and you didn't mention that, but there was a concerted effort by the originators of the forum as well as the current moderator team to make a point.

In the time I've been here, it's been a great forum. I can't say that for the other forums I USED to go to.

As someone said... "there are other forums" (well actually, one that I moderator) :D

I think 5 pages of responses should tell you how the current forum seems to be running in people's minds.

big brother smoke
05-17-2010, 04:08 PM
I cannot add anything that has not been said, so I will add my support here (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/donate.html).
Just gave another little contribution to keep the lights on and show my support to the members, mods and Admin.

Oh and by the way, my contribution came from vending this weekend. Incidentally, I learned how to do that right here at www.bbq-brethren.com (http://www.bbq-brethren.com)

leanza
05-17-2010, 04:46 PM
This fourm is multifaceted. There are compartments. When one does not venture, often, out into the entire fourm structure, it can be an interesting.

Smokedelic
05-17-2010, 04:53 PM
There is censorship and there is outright slamming of a forum. Slamming the forum in such a way as comparing it to others in a negative light shall not have repercussions? Um ok

Well, actually, I don't think he was slamming the forum as much as asking for opinions, as well as stating his own. He's received 5+ pages of responses that are mostly contrary to his opinion....all of this without banning him to a useless user group or censoring him....as it should be.

I just found your post interesting, yet somewhat contradictory, that's all.

Have a great day!

Gore
05-17-2010, 06:46 PM
I think I can see a little bit of where this is coming from. When I first was on here, I never saw anything at all "controversial," Only some vague references to a disturbance here, like seeing the waves that an action made, but not seeing the action itself. I felt I never really knew what was going on. It appears the standard operating procedure was to remove anything that might be deemed offensive without comment. More lately, I have noticed more comments from mods about offensive posts. I think (some?) mods may feel they need to justify their actions or to make a warning. Perhaps this is changing the flavor of things a bit. In my opinion, mods don't need to justify ANYTHING. Maybe it is better to mod in silence, just delete offensive posts, send a PM to the offender and leave it at that. I'm not saying this is a problem, just saying this is something I've noticed more lately, and it could be only because I've been on the site more lately.

BBQchef33
05-17-2010, 07:50 PM
I think I can see a little bit of where this is coming from. When I first was on here, I never saw anything at all "controversial," Only some vague references to a disturbance here, like seeing the waves that an action made, but not seeing the action itself. I felt I never really knew what was going on. It appears the standard operating procedure was to remove anything that might be deemed offensive without comment. More lately, I have noticed more comments from mods about offensive posts. I think (some?) mods may feel they need to justify their actions or to make a warning. Perhaps this is changing the flavor of things a bit. In my opinion, mods don't need to justify ANYTHING. Maybe it is better to mod in silence, just delete offensive posts, send a PM to the offender and leave it at that. I'm not saying this is a problem, just saying this is something I've noticed more lately, and it could be only because I've been on the site more lately.


As a rule, mods or admins will send a PM(without fanfare) to the poster when a post has been removed.

If it was a blatent button pushing crossing the line post, removal is done without a PM. (in this case, 99% of the time the poster knows they were doing it and pushing the envelope)

If u see a public comment after a thread is scrubbed by a mod, its usually done to put a thread back on track, get it civil and let the folks know it was moderated, and why, and dont continue whatever it was.

that being said..we dont do it to justify our explain actions. The rule here is a moderators action is final.. its done more as a courtesy so folks know what not to do again.

Gore
05-17-2010, 08:03 PM
I agree, but I seem to notice this happening more often and sometimes I wonder if it is best just to scrub and not say anything at all. Seems if things are scrubbed, things will get back on track by themselves, but maybe they do, maybe they don't, I don't know, but it seems to send a strong message all by itself without saying a word. I'm not criticizing or anything, just wondering out loud as I often do....


edit: Just realized this is in the competition BBQ section. That is a LOOOONNNGGGGG way from home for me. I thought I was in woodpile. Sorry.

tmcmaster
05-17-2010, 08:11 PM
70 posts, 5 pages and 2 days later, and there is STILL no reasonable justification of Merl's statement, and I have to ask why? I have posted on here many times, asking for opinions, and I check back on that thread almost hourly. Because I WANTED TO KNOW. I have to question the Merl's motivation at this point on this issue.

I dunno...

This is not just the most civil and friendly BBQ forum I have ever been on, but also the most civil and helpful forum of any persuasion.

Yakfishingfool
05-17-2010, 08:23 PM
NEed help with boiling ribs for competition presentation....do I get advice here???

Listen, this is a community that cares about the people in it. Don't get hooked on the trolling lure. Scott

PS, Phil we aren't supposed to boil them first....who knew?!?

BRBBQ
05-17-2010, 10:25 PM
I think he's referring to Phil's post on no more B.S, foul or some thing along that line, unfortunately I forgot how it went since it didn't pertain me:becky:

River City Smokehouse
05-19-2010, 06:42 AM
:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy: What are you thinking Merl? Did the doc change you meds?:doh::doh::doh::doh:

G$
05-19-2010, 08:37 AM
This is not just the most civil and friendly BBQ forum I have ever been on, but also the most civil and helpful forum of any persuasion.

:eusa_clap

tony76248
05-19-2010, 08:50 AM
wow, been busy lately and after a few weeks away, i read this thread.... wow

Bigdog
05-19-2010, 10:47 AM
It should be obvious, Merl, that the answer to your question is a resounding: NO!!! But thanks for asking. :thumb:

cmcadams
05-19-2010, 12:13 PM
There have been more personality clashes lately than several years ago, but that's due to the membership level now. All in all, not only are people civil, but the mods let us run wild, to a point. We're allowed to disagree and not get our hands slapped, as long as we don't get into personal attacks, etc.

As the recipient of a lot of Brethren love (in a manly way) last weekend with A Pretty Good BBQ 2010, I can't think of any other place on the internet that would have produced cooks from 7 states to do a charity event at a local church. All I did was ask, and guys showed up. Then they came back the next year, then even more showed up the next year. I'm almost afraid of what next year will bring!

Doing drive-by posting doesn't help things, but, in the end, we're all playing in Phil's backyard. I, for one, appreciate that this place isn't 100% barbecue. If it weren't for allowing other than that, the people on here that are a part of my life likely wouldn't be, but the bbq-ness of the forum gives us all a common starting point.

Boshizzle
05-19-2010, 07:20 PM
Where did Merl go?

Haltech
05-19-2010, 11:41 PM
Where did Merl go?

If you do not click on the thread, it never happened...

Just saying...

tmcmaster
05-20-2010, 03:20 AM
If you do not click on the thread, it never happened...

Just saying...
:thumb:

Jorge
05-20-2010, 08:31 AM
Over the last several days, I've been asked if Merl was banned. To end that line of questioning, the answer is 'NO'. Merl asked a question, and expressed his opinion. He is welcome here, within the same rules that everybody else is.

smokincracker
05-20-2010, 09:02 AM
ADMIN RESPONSE: You point ME to one thread where a moderator, ACTING AS A MODERATOR and NOT A MEMBER has overstepped a boundary or broken one of our rules and i will address it. Moderators live to a tighter standard here than members and I have yet to see one abuse that privledge.

Our moderators however ARE STILL MEMBERS and are entitled to voice their personal opinions. When they are acting in an official capacity, it is stated as 'MOD NOTE", 'ADMIN NOTE', and sometimes even posted in assigned color(green for moderators, red for admins). There should never be any confusion when staff is acting in official capacity as opposed to personal.

I have stated time and time again, we are about FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION. Moderators are instructed to NEVER moderate on content and to enforce a VERY, sometimes OVERLY detailed set of rules. This also holds true for members who can not expect us to stifle another members opinions or statements because they, or someone doesn't like hearing it. Open, frank discussions, that as long as they are within our guidelines, and remain civil will ALWAYS be allowed on this forum. When required, moderators will step in to put a conversation back on track and defuse a possibly volatile situation before it spins out of control. This is done INSTEAD of shutting down or removing a thread, and it is only a last resort when we feel we can no longer control the situation or the thread has completely unraveled. Only then do we shut it down. Anything short of these efforts is censorship and we dont roll that way. If anyone prefers a forum where controversial or sensitive topics are sanitized or removed based on an alliance or emotion there are a few out there that will cater to you. WE ARE NOT ONE OF THEM.

We have had and always will have controversial discussions crop up that folks don't like, myself and staff included. But as much as I may dislike the content, topics or direction a thread is going, I WILL NEVER ALLOW CENSORSHIP. Unlike other forums, the administration here does not act out of personal opinions, alliances or emotion, but instead do their best to perform as professionally and as fairly as possible to enforce our rules.

With 1500+ posts a day, it is impossible to find each and every breach, and with that we do depend on our membership to not only police themselves, but other members thru the use of the 'report bad post' button. We receive many reports a day and each is evaluated. Determinations are made as to whether the reports are valid according to our guidelines.

I personally am extremely proud to have the moderating team that I do and I think they are one of the best ones around. Some of them have been in place for years, and they run this forum in my absence. I have no problem sleeping at night knowing it is in their hands.

If any member sees a problem they feel needs attention use that report button and it will be handled accordingly.



On a personal note: I thank the members in this thread who have stood up for our integrity, the direction of this forum and recognize the efforts we put into making this forum what it is. :thumb:


I call that the BIG TRUCK RULE, get in or move over. Here, Here Phil
Thanks for making this a place I can relax.

Kosmo's Q
05-22-2010, 12:23 AM
Holy Chit!!! Wow... Phil I love you and all the mods that keep this site running like a well-oiled machine!

bbqpitstop
05-22-2010, 04:26 PM
I so agree with Jorge.....while we dont agree with Merl's perspective, he and Candy should be allowed to disagree on here like the rest of us.....at least we're getting the information and I'd like to thank both Merl and Candy for that, even if we don't like the fact that discension exists in the BOD. As a BOD member myself of another bbq related association, I understand how easily that can occur in the normal day to day of conducting BOD business. For all we know, outside of the bod meetings Candy and Merl might kiss and make up. Just like we do on this forum and at comps....I've been near tears in some BOD meetings that got heated, I now know that it's all part of trying to accomplish something within a limited amount of time without a moderator to keep us on track.....one BOD member I absolutely thought was childish and authoritative actually turned into quite a generous and knowledgeable bbq friend that I go to often for advice on lots of bbq related business information.

grossepellets
05-22-2010, 05:17 PM
I love this place and the forum is the first one I have ever been apart of. I have yet to see any credence in viable distrust. This is one place that I can retreat to - learn from and grow with. Mods do a heck of a job and folks seem to be themselves which is why its such an awesome place to spend countless hours.

River City Smokehouse
05-22-2010, 08:24 PM
I think Merl is batting for Basso to drive up the action on that dried up forum.

smoken don
05-22-2010, 09:28 PM
It is sad to have a person ask a question like that and then not respond.

We don't have many KCBS comps. in Texas. I have to wonder,is that a good thing?

leanza
05-22-2010, 09:36 PM
At first I was miffed. But really, from what I know of Merl he is a supporter of us. I think we need to find him and show him some Brethren love. It may have been a heart felt observation, on his part, no matter our opinions. Lets get him back contributing. I believe he has helped folks out in many situations. I dont know him like many of you so I would appreciate someone contacting him and reassuring him. He is a Brethren.

Sawdustguy
05-23-2010, 04:23 AM
Wow! Spend a few day on a business tip without net access and I missed out on all the festivities. To me, we don't have to defend ourselves to anyone. We all know what we have here and I personally would never want to see it change. It is amazing, as big a group of folks that frequent here, it really isn't much different than when I became a member more than 5 years ago. I think that says it all. I think it's hard to ignore, but I think we would all do better with a lot less of this KCBS bullchit. I just wish there were more MBN contests here in the Northeast. One catagory to turn in, no garnish and you get to bullchit the judges, what could be better?

Capt ron
05-23-2010, 07:06 PM
I just happen to come across these post going here. Let me tell ya once that this site is a good forum with very knowledgeable persons and many personalities. With so many different people and opinions there will be a heated debate. It happens!!! This forum unlike the 4 letter forum is not censored to the extreme where there is a select few who can say what they want were others are blocked from posting... I guess they don't want any ones feeling hurt or things have to be sugar coated that the bee are starting to get cavities :-D.
The thing that is a killer at the 4 letter forum is that if a newbie asks a question for the most part they do get a answer from the ones who act like adults, love to cook / BBQ, have something positive say and remember they were once a newbie... The others just ride the newbie or just start flooding the question with there own lil conversations... That's so discouraging and frustrating!!!:mad2: Which is one reason I came to the Brethren. I've been greeted with open arm, helped with many questions/ problems and I'm still learning... Every day there is a lesson to be learned...:becky:
Some people need not come here and stir the "honey pot" so to speak to see what smell they can produce... That's no cool nor wanted.:hand:
Debate is good as long as at the end of the day we can be civil and show a brother & sister some LoVe... I am proud to be part of the Brethren!!! :bow:

EatRBBQ
05-23-2010, 08:41 PM
I will mention that I don't post alot in the Comp threads, but if you're asking if the Brethren is like the other BBQ forums out there - then I'd say NO.

I spent a few years at another forum, mostly reading because when you share there, you have to be ready to dodge or duck. They aren't particularly kind to newbies and they are even rougher on seasoned members. And in my experience there is a real old timers/buddy network set up to the extent that even when they violate their own written rules - those rules are not enforced. That has lead to a volatile environment that's not particularly friendly.

I was fortunate enough to find the Brethren, read, share - and see the environment is suited with the name.

Sure there will be disagreements, differences of opinions, and different ideas shared, perhaps even outright arguments. But the underlying tone and tenor of friendship, kinship, "brethren" is still there.

I appreciate the more "family" "friendly" environment/atmosphere, thanks to all the Mods/Admin and Brethren for making me feel part of things too.

tmcmaster
06-11-2010, 09:49 AM
I've been out of touch for a week or so, but, have anyone heard anymore on Merl's rationale for posing this question?

tony76248
06-11-2010, 10:03 AM
I would have deleted the post because if Merl really understood this forum he wouldn't have been so obtuse as to ask the question in the first place.

Jorge
06-11-2010, 10:32 AM
Merl asked a question, and expressed his opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! He's just as welcome here, as anybody else that has posted to this thread. If Merl chooses not to participate, that's his decision as well and we should respect that, without poking at a member that isn't around.

bigabyte
06-11-2010, 10:42 AM
I say in all fairness, let's give it 6 months, then let's see if this forum has gone the way of those other forums or not.

ique
06-11-2010, 10:43 AM
Merl asked a question, and expressed his opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! He's just as welcome here, as anybody else that has posted to this thread. If Merl chooses not to participate, that's his decision as well and we should respect that, without poking at a member that isn't around.


It is his decision. But it is certainly bad manners to drop a fairly nasty post and then not have the courtesy to address any of the responses to your question. Thats what a troll does. A true member of this forum stands behind his or her posts.

Diva Q
06-11-2010, 11:14 AM
It is his decision. But it is certainly bad manners to drop a fairly nasty post and then not have the courtesy to address any of the responses to your question. Thats what a troll does. A true member of this forum stands behind his or her posts.

Exactly.

Willie's BBQ
06-11-2010, 11:18 AM
It is his decision. But it is certainly bad manners to drop a fairly nasty post and then not have the courtesy to address any of the responses to your question. Thats what a troll does. A true member of this forum stands behind his or her posts.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

KnucklHed BBQ
06-16-2010, 11:53 AM
I've been out of touch for a week or so, but, have anyone heard anymore on Merl's rationale for posing this question?

PERHAPS HIS CAPS LOCK KEY IS FROZE AND HE HAS DECIDED NOT TO POST SO THAT HIS COMMENTS ARE NOT TAKEN AS INFLAMITORY.

In which case I appreciate his thoughtfulness. I hope he gets his keyboard fixed soon.

Jeff_in_KC
06-16-2010, 07:55 PM
It is his decision. But it is certainly bad manners to drop a fairly nasty post and then not have the courtesy to address any of the responses to your question. Thats what a troll does. A true member of this forum stands behind his or her posts.

Exactly.

Bentley
10-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Has it been six months yet?

Jeff_in_KC
10-31-2010, 11:15 PM
From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

I think I figured it out from the one quote above... he got confused and THOUGHT he was posting on the BOD Forum.

Hub
11-01-2010, 02:53 PM
The secret of a good forum is a good moderator -- one with guts enough to keep the flamers and trolls off. Disagreements are going to happen and aren't a problem so long as they are just that and not snide, mean-spirited rants.

I post on several BBQ related forums and this is a good one. I no longer post on another well-known forum because it is frequented by uncontrolled mental patients who seem to be in some kind of contest to see who can be the biggest jerk when responding to even the most innocent comment. Let's barbeque and leave the nasty stuff to our political candidates :puke:

BBQ Grail
11-01-2010, 03:03 PM
I no longer post on another well-known forum because it is frequented by uncontrolled mental patients...

I thought BBQ Bubba and Divemaster stopped going over there...

butt head
11-01-2010, 03:39 PM
:deadhorse:

LGHT
11-02-2010, 12:05 PM
I am just asking your opinion.

Is this forum going the way of other forums?

From my perspective, more and more post could be a try out for the Jerry Springer show. Members blasting mods. Mods blasting members.

Do we need mods to a moderator for the mods?

Is this what this should be about. Is this really about bbq information or another online enquirer.

I see this as a sad turn for a great forum.

Just my thoughts.
Merl

I think you have noticed the same thing I have. The problem is most people don't understand how to debate instead of argue. I mean if a person asks an opinion and you have a negative response that is opposite of everyone that has a positive one that doesn't make your negative response invalid or wrong it just means you have a difference of opinion.

It's the attack the odd man out post that are the problem and are often replies from ignorant member who can't seem to understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion positive or negative. Instead of debating that opinion they try and reply with insults and demeaning comments. This is often found from people who have yet learned how to respond with an educated rebuttal. The "mods" notice these negative responses and instead of encouraging the members stay on track and debate without using insults she just replies with some silly rhetoric and tells everyone involved to stop. Clearly she needs to read the meaning of the term "Moderator" and learn how to actually moderate post instead of using said power to simply delete post and tell everyone to just stop posting at all.

Jorge
11-02-2010, 12:11 PM
I think you have noticed the same thing I have. The problem is most people don't understand how to debate instead of argue. I mean if a person asks an opinion and you have a negative response that is opposite of everyone that has a positive one that doesn't make your negative response invalid or wrong it just means you have a difference of opinion.

It's the attack the odd man out post that are the problem and are often replies from ignorant member who can't seem to understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion positive or negative. Instead of debating that opinion they try and reply with insults and demeaning comments. This is often found from people who have yet learned how to respond with an educated rebuttal. The "mods" notice these negative responses and instead of encouraging the members stay on track and debate without using insults she just replies with some silly rhetoric and tells everyone involved to stop. Clearly she needs to read the meaning of the term "Moderator" and learn how to actually moderate post instead of using said power to simply delete post and tell everyone to just stop posting at all.

Clearly, you need to go back and refer to the forum rules:becky: That advice is sincere, and friendly:becky:

Jacked UP BBQ
11-02-2010, 12:15 PM
I think you have noticed the same thing I have. The problem is most people don't understand how to debate instead of argue. I mean if a person asks an opinion and you have a negative response that is opposite of everyone that has a positive one that doesn't make your negative response invalid or wrong it just means you have a difference of opinion.

It's the attack the odd man out post that are the problem and are often replies from ignorant member who can't seem to understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion positive or negative. Instead of debating that opinion they try and reply with insults and demeaning comments. This is often found from people who have yet learned how to respond with an educated rebuttal. The "mods" notice these negative responses and instead of encouraging the members stay on track and debate without using insults she just replies with some silly rhetoric and tells everyone involved to stop. Clearly she needs to read the meaning of the term "Moderator" and learn how to actually moderate post instead of using said power to simply delete post and tell everyone to just stop posting at all.


WOW, nothing like coming in late.....Merl is that you in Disguise????:laugh:

LGHT
11-02-2010, 12:18 PM
hahah no this is not Merl, just another victim that had his post deleted because he had an opinion. I'm sure Merl tried to reply, but his post like some of mine seemed to just magically disappear.

ique
11-02-2010, 12:30 PM
hahah no this is not Merl, just another victim that had his post deleted because he had an opinion. I'm sure Merl tried to reply, but his post like some of mine seemed to just magically disappear.


Wrong. Merl never replied.

BBQ Grail
11-02-2010, 12:31 PM
hahah no this is not Merl, just another victim that had his post deleted because he had an opinion. I'm sure Merl tried to reply, but his post like some of mine seemed to just magically disappear.

Dear Mr LGHT,

Thank you for your insightful and thought provoking opinion of our BBQ Home. After only a few weeks and 78 posts you seem to have formed an opinion of us that is contrary to the facts.

Our Moderators are first rate, I can assure you if you had a post deleted it had far more to do with the delivery of said message than the content of it. If opinions were grounds for deleting posts then I would less than half the number of posts I have.

May I, politely, suggest you follow Jorge's advice and re-read (or read for the first time) our Forum rules. What makes this the wonderful internet place that it is, is our moderators. Good natured poking at them is a good thing, however, you've probably gotten pretty close to the line where it could be considered wrong.

Again, thank you for you opinion.

bigabyte
11-02-2010, 12:40 PM
If anyone around here upsets people with their thoughts, it's folks like BBQ Grail, and even myself. My posts have never been deleted except for cases where I thoughtlessly broke the rules. Other than that, they let all my opinions sit out there for all to see, for all time. That's the way it should be. If you want anybody on these boards to believe your post was moderated for you expressing an opinion, you are clearly, simply being dishonest.

BBQ Grail
11-02-2010, 12:47 PM
If anyone around here upsets people with their thoughts, it's folks like BBQ Grail, and even myself. My posts have never been deleted except for cases where I thoughtlessly broke the rules. Other than that, they let all my opinions sit out there for all to see, for all time. That's the way it should be. If you want anybody on these boards to believe your post was moderated for you expressing an opinion, you are clearly, simply being dishonest.

I upset people? Really? If I didn't know better I'd swear you are calling me captious.

Jorge
11-02-2010, 12:48 PM
Mod Note: The rules apply to everyone. While the Mod team always appreciates public support when we are questioned publicly, the rules always apply. The support and understanding from members is appreciated, but the situation is being addressed by the Mod team. Nothing to see here.

Translation.... no need for a dogpile.

LGHT
11-02-2010, 01:03 PM
Dear Mr LGHT,

Thank you for your insightful and thought provoking opinion of our BBQ Home. After only a few weeks and 78 posts you seem to have formed an opinion of us that is contrary to the facts. Contrary to YOUR opinion as you need to understand you don't speak for everyone regardless of what your ego my be telling you. I'm obviously not the only one who has been a victim of attacks and censorship that's why this topic exist.

Our Moderators are first rate, I can assure you if you had a post deleted it had far more to do with the delivery of said message than the content of it. If opinions were grounds for deleting posts then I would less than half the number of posts I have. Again the moderators being first rate is simply your opinion and not mine. As you have stated we are all allowed to have an opinion and if that's the case why are you so focused in changing mine instead of simply accepting it? Since you have no clue what the post said how can you be so certain about the deliver or content of the post? That's the beauty of censorship it's a quick and easy way to simply avoid the truth.

May I, politely, suggest you follow Jorge's advice and re-read (or read for the first time) our Forum rules. What makes this the wonderful internet place that it is, is our moderators. Good natured poking at them is a good thing, however, you've probably gotten pretty close to the line where it could be considered wrong. Again, thank you for you opinion. Who are you to make suggestions at all? It seems that you have let that enormous ego out again and are under the impression that your suggestion as polite as they may be mean anything to me. If I am getting close to the line that line hasn't been drawn by you so you will have no say in keeping me behind it. Your welcome for my opinion and feel free to thank me more often It's glad to be appreciated :)

Big Poppa
11-02-2010, 01:14 PM
I like it here. I also understand that there has never been a person whose post got deleted on a forum that agreed with the decision...first amendment, blah,blah, blah.
I have observed that people with the most aggressive manner also have the thinnest skin.
I would respectfully ask the people who seem less than pleased to understand just how hard a board this size is to run...
I also understand that if you post a question or topic regarding a particular smoker you will get 33 people telling you that uds is the only way to go....except for the 10 that say wsm's. It's all good and fun. remember we call this a sport....What a funny lookin bunch of atheletes.

Whens the next comp? Ours is in Buckeye!

Jorge
11-02-2010, 01:33 PM
Mod Note: Since this began in public I'll offer a brief explanation.

LGHT took exception to being moderated here: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1443827#post1443827 . The post has been restored by me so that everyone can draw their own conclusion. I issued a warning to everyone in that thread that things needed to remain civil. Following that warning LGHT chose to get one last shot in at someone else involved in the debate. I deleted the post and told him why via PM. The rest of the exchange will remain private, since they are called Private Messages for a reason.

I'm fine with someone trying to get under my skin by addressing me as 'she', personally. I've had a lot worse said to, and about me in person to get a reaction. What I can't accept, and the moderators as a group can't tolerate is the clear violation of the rules.

As a result, LGHT has a 30 day ban. He can still read those forums that are open to the public if he chooses but can't participate. If he chooses to return to the forum at the end of that period he's more than welcome, as long as he can participate within the forum rules that apply to EVERYONE.

The final thing that I want to make clear, is that Merl has not been moderated since this thread began. He has not been banned. Merl is still a member in good standing and is welcome to share his opinion just as any other member is.

Unless there is something that I'm not aware of, this issue is resolved. If there is anything else that needs to be addressed please feel free to contact me or another moderator.

leanza
11-02-2010, 01:49 PM
May I recommend a pad lock? This thread has seen its day.

Jorge
11-02-2010, 01:54 PM
May I recommend a pad lock? This thread has seen its day.

If members act responsibly, and stay within the forum rules, I see no reason for it. If forum rules are broken, the Mod team will deal with it just as we do any other thread.

Scottie
11-02-2010, 03:09 PM
I wish I could change my colors so readily on my posts.... :becky:

** OK, just lighten up Frances...

what were we talking about again?

JiveTurkey
11-02-2010, 03:16 PM
http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/27842-beating_dead_horse_what.jpg

Midnight Smoke
11-02-2010, 03:33 PM
I don't know, maybe I missed the post that went over the line. Was an individual post deleted? I see LGHT's last post was # 47. I read through the entire thread but maybe I missed something.

From that thread it looked like he was pushing it but staying within the boundaries.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with him I just do not see the cause for the Ban. But then I miss a lot of things.

Jorge
11-02-2010, 04:20 PM
I don't know, maybe I missed the post that went over the line. Was an individual post deleted? I see LGHT's last post was # 47. I read through the entire thread but maybe I missed something.

From that thread it looked like he was pushing it but staying within the boundaries.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with him I just do not see the cause for the Ban. But then I miss a lot of things.


I'll be happy to explain, since I deleted the post.

In all honesty there is no right or wrong. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and voiced mine and have given the reasons as such. If you care to interject some meaningful discussion toward the topic at hand great, but if not please refrain from useless post that are only focused on attacking the opinions of others.

Getting the last word in, and taking the final shot at a protagonist.

I didn't moderate the thread prior to that point. I think there was some good discussion and a give/take that was beneficial to a point. Once it became more personal, I made it clear the the discussion needed to stick to the issues.

sdbbq1234
11-02-2010, 08:21 PM
Being a new paid member for only 8 months, I'd say it's not going the same direction as other forums.

I have sent emails to the forum mod/admin asking some questions for over 2 months.

To date, no reply! Other forums at least reply.

Not sure if I will be a "paying" member in the future.

wallace

HoDeDo
11-02-2010, 08:28 PM
Being a new paid member for only 8 months, I'd say it's not going the same direction as other forums.

I have sent emails to the forum mod/admin asking some questions for over 2 months.

To date, no reply! Other forums at least reply.

Not sure if I will be a "paying" member in the future.

wallace

I'm sure some of us would love to help... what are the questions?

PM sent to Randyhowsit. Thanks Andy. We appreciate YOUR help in trying to MOVE this thread in a more postive direction.

Bob

BBQchef33
11-02-2010, 09:02 PM
im on it guys.. Randy(Don) used the 'contact us' link, which got reset to default after a maintenance upgrade a while back, and I was unaware of the reset. Thje link was going to a non existent mailbox for a while until someone pointed it out to me. The link was fixed a few weeks ago.. and we are working randys question now.

BBQchef33
11-02-2010, 09:10 PM
on another note... a few posts got removed here to keep this thread intact and on track.

Merl started this thread with an observation and all opinions were allowed. not one of Merls responses were removed, nor were any ontopic or relevant posts. We will always allow a free flow of information and civil discussion. If things are brought to our attention that we deem it necessary to change our directions, policies or processes, we will do it.. We will also enforce our rules fairly, and we try to be as consistent and uniform as possible.

Our rules however have very specific instruction regarding personal attacks, challenging moderators in public, and or not heeding a moderators warnings or instructions. Action is taken when any of these are challenged or broken.

BobBrisket
11-02-2010, 11:28 PM
I'd like to add a quick note as well, and I'll be to the point with it. Sometimes we need to leave well enough ALONE! Learn to step back. Realize that not EVERYTHING needs to be turned into a "HAHA" moment after the fact. Especially, in a situation like this one where a temporary ban had to be enforced. This is in reference to the last few deleted posts.

Lastly, Randyhowsit AKA sdbbq1234........glad it all worked out and you got your ?'s answered. Welcome to the Club House, Brother!

Bob

Midnight Smoke
11-02-2010, 11:36 PM
I read the questionable post and like I stated it looked borderline but not over the line. Maybe the PM's between Jorge and LGHT were very heated, I don't know.

I glanced over a few other posts in different threads by LGHT and for the most part, conversation was civil.

I guess my only thought is, a 30 day Ban on a 1st offense, it just seems a little harsh under the circumstances. At least he did not come right out and call someone a farking dumbA$$. On a side note, maybe Jorge felt it was just going to get worse and nipped it in the bud, if so that was a good call.

Seems I may have read in the rules about this 30 day rule but was not sure it was set in stone for all offenses. Seems I remember sometime back there was another member that started something and the Ban was like 7-10 days or 48 hours I just cannot recall, maybe I was dreaming it.

I would hate to lose a possible quality member over something that might be salvageable with a slap on the wrist rather than a 30 day stint in the hole.

I believe in turning the cheek, once!

Bentley
11-03-2010, 01:03 AM
Getting the last word in, and taking the final shot at a protagonist.


Protagonist–noun

1. the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.

2. a proponent for or advocate of a political cause, social program, etc.

3. the leader or principal person in a movement, cause, etc.

4. the first actor in ancient Greek drama, who played not only the main role, but also other roles when the main character was offstage. Compare deuteragonist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deuteragonist), tritagonist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tritagonist).

5. Physiology . agonist. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agonist)

Not sure if I was the protagonist but will assume I was since the thread that was deleted was amied at me...2 things, had no idea what a protagonsit was, had to look it up, still dont get it...someone is gonna have to tell me which one I am, and...

Hell if I could "interject some meaningful discussion toward the topic" I would probably be posting on Mensa forums and not here...

Rich Parker
11-03-2010, 06:50 AM
It is going to be a long Winter!

Divemaster
11-03-2010, 07:50 AM
It is going to be a long Winter!
that was my first thought...

KnucklHed BBQ
11-03-2010, 10:53 AM
Well, I was wondering if Merl had dropped this bomb off and then forgotten about it or just never logged in again...
Taking a look at his stats (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1313947&pp=50), he's made a few posts in the last week and logged in as recently as Nov 1st.
Unless he's unsubscribed himself from this thread, he should still recieve an email notification for the first reply since his last log in - that would mean that Bentley's post (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1446166&postcount=102) would have assuredly been sent to Merl via email notification, thus reminding him of his little creation here...

Since he hasn't logged in since the 1st, he won't recieve notification of this post, but on the off chance he cruises by here... Merl?? This thread has recieved more views and more posts than any other thread you've ever started... shouldn't you reply?

Jorge
11-03-2010, 12:00 PM
Well, I was wondering if Merl had dropped this bomb off and then forgotten about it or just never logged in again...
Taking a look at his stats (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1313947&pp=50), he's made a few posts in the last week and logged in as recently as Nov 1st.
Unless he's unsubscribed himself from this thread, he should still recieve an email notification for the first reply since his last log in - that would mean that Bentley's post (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1446166&postcount=102) would have assuredly been sent to Merl via email notification, thus reminding him of his little creation here...

Since he hasn't logged in since the 1st, he won't recieve notification of this post, but on the off chance he cruises by here... Merl?? This thread has recieved more views and more posts than any other thread you've ever started... shouldn't you reply?

I spoke to Merl yesterday. In that conversation he made it clear that he could have worded that initial post differently. I can accept that.

It's also no secret that Merl has had some very serious health issues recently. Based on what Merl shared with me yesterday, I think it's pretty understandable that getting back to BBQ on the internet shouldn't really be at the top of the priority list. That isn't to say that he's bedridden, but after everything he's had to deal with he's got a lot to catch up on to include time with his wife.

As for email notification... I wouldn't read too much into that. I have that feature turned off, since my email is pushed to my phone for work purposes. I don't need my phone melting daily:becky:

Merl said what he said, and explained what he meant yesterday and I can accept that. If Merl chooses to address this himself that's up to him. If he does, I'd just ask that folks be patient. As important as this forum, and competition BBQ may be to some of us it's still just BBQ in the grand scheme of life.

Ron_L
11-03-2010, 12:23 PM
I read the questionable post and like I stated it looked borderline but not over the line. Maybe the PM's between Jorge and LGHT were very heated, I don't know.

I glanced over a few other posts in different threads by LGHT and for the most part, conversation was civil.

I guess my only thought is, a 30 day Ban on a 1st offense, it just seems a little harsh under the circumstances. At least he did not come right out and call someone a farking dumbA$$. On a side note, maybe Jorge felt it was just going to get worse and nipped it in the bud, if so that was a good call.

Seems I may have read in the rules about this 30 day rule but was not sure it was set in stone for all offenses. Seems I remember sometime back there was another member that started something and the Ban was like 7-10 days or 48 hours I just cannot recall, maybe I was dreaming it.

I would hate to lose a possible quality member over something that might be salvageable with a slap on the wrist rather than a 30 day stint in the hole.

I believe in turning the cheek, once!

We understand your points, Terry, and we also believe in turning the cheek, sometimes more than once. In this case, the first cheek-turning was in the thread that Jorge linked to. LGHT was asked to keep things civil and he didn't. He posted another antagonistic post after Jorge's warning. This was discussed via PM and that was it.

LGHT chose to bring that up in this thread and went on to publicly challenge (and ridicule, for that matter) the moderator involved in the other thread (Jorge) as well as ALL moderators. Another warning was posted (second cheek-turning). After that he ignored the moderator warning and posted again, and in that post made a personal attack on at least one member AND once again publicly challenge the moderator. That's at least three, maybe four distinct rules violations in this thread alone. It was the combination of all of those that led to the temporary ban.

As you mentioned, all of the other threads that he was involved in were civil and had some good discussion. I hope that once the ban period is over he will decide to come back and contribute to the forum, but this time stay within our rules. None of the moderators or admins enjoy having to take action against any member. We think of you as our extended family. When an action is taken, even if it is issuing a cautionary post, it is preceded by much discussion and is done at the agreement of the majority of the mods and admins available at the time. We don't take this lightly.

I hope that all of you remember that everyone involved in running this forum, and keeping it a fun place to be, are volunteers. This includes the moderators, the admins and Badger, our back office technical guru. None of us get paid a cent for doing this. We do it because we love BBQ and the Brethren and want to make this a place where you want to be. Sometimes this comes with a price, but we all hope that those incidents are rare.

Please realize that our jobs also come with a price for us. We are taking time away from our families and sometimes even BBQ (!) for this. Unfortunately, we are also the subject of some pretty rude behavior. I have been called a bigot, a nazi and some other names that I won't type because I was involved in moderating posts that violate our rules, even though those rules are clearly stated for every one to see. I'm not complaining, but a lot of this happens behind the scenes and very few get to see the glamorous side of being a forum moderator or admin :-D

KnucklHed BBQ
11-03-2010, 12:34 PM
Thanks Jorge!

Ronelle, first thing I thought when I met ya' was "dang... That guy must be a nazi!!" :laugh:

I think its the intense hardcore look you've got goin' on... :rolleyes:

Scottie
11-03-2010, 01:05 PM
I've talked with Merl and I understand what point he was trying to make. as well. Does he need to come here? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain himself. The entire forum doesn't need to explain all of their posts and I sure wouldn't want that to happen. I believe in his initial post he asked for folks OPINION. It since spiraled out of control and now it's Obama's fault. It was rumored to be GWB's fault and also Clinton's but the spin control came in, like Wag the Dog and squashed that immediately... :becky:

This blew up way more than it needed to be in my OPINION. But I can't explain some folks actions. I know my actions are hard enough for the Mods to keep under control... :boxing:

Jorge, I am glad you had a chance to hear from Merl. Did your ear hurt after talkng with him too long? Merl likes to talk... :heh: As for his health, he repped a contest last weekend in Tucson. He is still moving slow and he is under strict doctors orders.


***I am not really serious with all of this post. I hope that some can figure out the facts from the fun.

But I do want to thank Jorge for reaching out to Merl to get his side. Probably why I like this forum so much. That kind of personal touch does not happen on other forums. I respect that from the Mods/Admins and from Poobah.



I spoke to Merl yesterday. In that conversation he made it clear that he could have worded that initial post differently. I can accept that.

It's also no secret that Merl has had some very serious health issues recently. Based on what Merl shared with me yesterday, I think it's pretty understandable that getting back to BBQ on the internet shouldn't really be at the top of the priority list. That isn't to say that he's bedridden, but after everything he's had to deal with he's got a lot to catch up on to include time with his wife.

As for email notification... I wouldn't read too much into that. I have that feature turned off, since my email is pushed to my phone for work purposes. I don't need my phone melting daily:becky:

Merl said what he said, and explained what he meant yesterday and I can accept that. If Merl chooses to address this himself that's up to him. If he does, I'd just ask that folks be patient. As important as this forum, and competition BBQ may be to some of us it's still just BBQ in the grand scheme of life.

JD McGee
11-03-2010, 01:21 PM
I've talked with Merl and I understand what point he was trying to make. as well. Does he need to come here? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain himself. The entire forum doesn't need to explain all of their posts and I sure wouldn't want that to happen. I believe in his initial post he asked for folks OPINION. It since spiraled out of control and now it's Obama's fault. It was rumored to be GWB's fault and also Clinton's but the spin control came in, like Wag the Dog and squashed that immediately... :becky:

This blew up way more than it needed to be in my OPINION. But I can't explain some folks actions. I know my actions are hard enough for the Mods to keep under control... :boxing:

Jorge, I am glad you had a chance to hear from Merl. Did your ear hurt after talkng with him too long? Merl likes to talk... :heh: As for his health, he repped a contest last weekend in Tucson. He is still moving slow and he is under strict doctors orders.


***I am not really serious with all of this post. I hope that some can figure out the facts from the fun.

But I do want to thank Jorge for reaching out to Merl to get his side. Probably why I like this forum so much. That kind of personal touch does not happen on other forums. I respect that from the Mods/Admins and from Poobah.

Well said Scottie and Jorge...well said! I have frequented many bbq forums in the short 3 years that I have taken up this craft and have found a home here...mainly because of the members and your willingness to be fair...sometimes brutal, biased, but always fair.

JD

ique
11-03-2010, 02:20 PM
It's also no secret that Merl has had some very serious health issues recently. Based on what Merl shared with me yesterday, I think it's pretty understandable that getting back to BBQ on the internet shouldn't really be at the top of the priority list.

Merl said what he said, and explained what he meant yesterday and I can accept that. If Merl chooses to address this himself that's up to him. If he does, I'd just ask that folks be patient. As important as this forum, and competition BBQ may be to some of us it's still just BBQ in the grand scheme of life.

Well the original post is from 6 months ago so I think there has been a lot of patience. The post blasted this forum. Sorry but starting a brand new thread blasting mods and the forum in general and then never responding or clarifying.... ie, hit and run.... thats what a troll does. I would expect more from a KCBS board member (I think).

Midnight Smoke
11-03-2010, 06:06 PM
We understand your points, Terry, and we also believe in turning the cheek, sometimes more than once. In this case, the first cheek-turning was in the thread that Jorge linked to. LGHT was asked to keep things civil and he didn't. He posted another antagonistic post after Jorge's warning. This was discussed via PM and that was it.

LGHT chose to bring that up in this thread and went on to publicly challenge (and ridicule, for that matter) the moderator involved in the other thread (Jorge) as well as ALL moderators. Another warning was posted (second cheek-turning). After that he ignored the moderator warning and posted again, and in that post made a personal attack on at least one member AND once again publicly challenge the moderator. That's at least three, maybe four distinct rules violations in this thread alone. It was the combination of all of those that led to the temporary ban.

As you mentioned, all of the other threads that he was involved in were civil and had some good discussion. I hope that once the ban period is over he will decide to come back and contribute to the forum, but this time stay within our rules. None of the moderators or admins enjoy having to take action against any member. We think of you as our extended family. When an action is taken, even if it is issuing a cautionary post, it is preceded by much discussion and is done at the agreement of the majority of the mods and admins available at the time. We don't take this lightly.

I hope that all of you remember that everyone involved in running this forum, and keeping it a fun place to be, are volunteers. This includes the moderators, the admins and Badger, our back office technical guru. None of us get paid a cent for doing this. We do it because we love BBQ and the Brethren and want to make this a place where you want to be. Sometimes this comes with a price, but we all hope that those incidents are rare.

Please realize that our jobs also come with a price for us. We are taking time away from our families and sometimes even BBQ (!) for this. Unfortunately, we are also the subject of some pretty rude behavior. I have been called a bigot, a nazi and some other names that I won't type because I was involved in moderating posts that violate our rules, even though those rules are clearly stated for every one to see. I'm not complaining, but a lot of this happens behind the scenes and very few get to see the glamorous side of being a forum moderator or admin :-D

__________________________________________________ ______________

Thank-You Ron for taking the time to explain what goes on behind the scenes. I read as many posts as I can and I had not seen where people actually attacked you with such uncalled for and untrue statements. I know now that, you Mods probably catch things, before it ever gets to the open forum.

I want to thank Jorge too for explaining his decision to me.

First off, it was none of my business to get into this, for that I apologize to Jorge and the other Mods and members. I stirred the pot when that was not my intention. I voiced my opinion as a member of an extended family and was going to bat for one that appeared to have crossed a line but had not broken it.

Hanging out here for the time I have has been a very pleasurable experience and I do not want to alienate myself as a person who does not know when to stand down and just keep silent. There is always 2 sides to the coin. On an Internet forum, most of the time we only see one side of that coin, the one that is in black and white on our screens.

With that said I hope LGHT realizes his error in judgment and does return and become a productive member, he did seem to possess some good traits and thoughts.

This is the best forum on the net, we have the best Mods and the best group of people that call this place home. I am honored to be a part of it.

Terry~

Jorge
11-03-2010, 06:28 PM
__________________________________________________ ______________

Thank-You Ron for taking the time to explain what goes on behind the scenes. I read as many posts as I can and I had not seen where people actually attacked you with such uncalled for and untrue statements. I know now that, you Mods probably catch things, before it ever gets to the open forum.

I want to thank Jorge too for explaining his decision to me.

First off, it was none of my business to get into this, for that I apologize to Jorge and the other Mods and members. I stirred the pot when that was not my intention. I voiced my opinion as a member of an extended family and was going to bat for one that appeared to have crossed a line but had not broken it.

Hanging out here for the time I have has been a very pleasurable experience and I do not want to alienate myself as a person who does not know when to stand down and just keep silent. There is always 2 sides to the coin. On an Internet forum, most of the time we only see one side of that coin, the one that is in black and white on our screens.

With that said I hope LGHT realizes his error in judgment and does return and become a productive member, he did seem to possess some good traits and thoughts.

This is the best forum on the net, we have the best Mods and the best group of people that call this place home. I am honored to be a part of it.

Terry~

Terry, as I just told you via PM I never doubted that your concern was the long term well being of this forum. I will always try to make time to explain my point of view and actions to a member that does that versus those that simply want a debate or entertainment. If time doesn't allow when I see something I'll try to get to it as soon as I can.

Maybe next time you can shoot me or another moderator a PM instead:wink::-P:becky:

sdbbq1234
11-03-2010, 07:05 PM
WOW!!! Sorry for the late reply to my mess-up yesterday.

But, a HUGE thanks to the admin/mods! I swear, within 1 minute of my previous post, I had the whole team pm'ing me.

I did not expect that!

Needless to say, they made things right, gave a great explanation as to what happened and really stepped up.

Now, I really need to publicly (forum) apologize for my previous post about nobody paying attention. 100% not true!!!

The folks here are top notch and really do care about this forum! :clap2:

Again, please everyone accept my sincere apologies for the previous post.

Life is good, but BBQ is better! (And it's good here!!!)

wallace

txschutte
11-03-2010, 08:28 PM
This place has it's own "culture", if you will. That was borne from it being a much smaller forum than it is now. When I joined there were oly about 2800 members, and only 700 of them were active.
That being said, I beleve that the Mods and Admins have done an excellent job of making sure this place runs smoothly. Keep in mind, they have gone to about 5X the amount of members while only upping the mod force by 1. What does that tell me? That tells me the mods simply don't have to drop hammers all the time. The members try to stay in line because that is our culture. There are a few rogues here and there, but thats why we have the mods.

The way of other forums?NO.

This may be the ONLY BBQ forum left because of the way it is run.

landarc
11-03-2010, 10:05 PM
You know, and perhaps many of you do not, if BBQchef33 takes even a few days off, his notifications blow up to crazy numbers (like 4 figures, who wants to respond to 1000+ notifications). There is a lot of communication that most of us never see that goes on behind the scenes, yet it all gets done. As one who has freely crossed the line, and also gotten into a flame war (still not sure why), I have really appreciated the respect that the mods show here. I also understand that Merl has a great deal of passion and commitment to his piece of the BBQ world, if we didn't have the same passion for BBQ, this place would not be the great place it is.