May 12, 2010 KCBS Bod agenda posted

[Merl]

The agenda for the May 12, 2010 meeting of the Board of Directors has been posted on the WWW.KCBS.US (http://www.KCBS.US) web site.

http://kcbs.us/news.php?id=241

If you desire to listen to the meeting or register to speak to the Board you must do so by 7:00 May 11, 2010. Forms available from the KCBS office.

Merl Whitebook
Secretary, KCBS

[White Dog BBQ]

Merl, who is resigning?

[BBQchef33]

The question should be who was asked to resign.

[White Dog BBQ]

The question should be who was asked to resign.

Phil,

Should I count your message as "No Report"?

[BBQchef33]

Do we have to call the office to get access to listen in and/or speak? Whats the process?

[HoDeDo]

does it matter? LOL I'm afraid to even ask...

[White Dog BBQ]

Well, if there is a resignation, I hope Jeff gets on the Board.

[Gene01]

if there is a resignation, there will be no replacement till the next election...

[HVRibFest]

Will rep coverage for the north-east be addressed?...

[Smokin' Joe]

Very interesting agenda...

Resignation
Smoke on the Water requesting full sanctioning of several events
Smoke on the Water Daytona, now called Smoke on the Water Daytona BBQ Pitmasters

good luck to all

[Plowboy]

From 2/5/2010 board meeting...




Candy Weaver made the following motion:
In the event during the term of any board member, their position becomes open, then the policy to fill the vacancy is as follows:

If a member of the board ceases to serve in the capacity as a member of the Board, during an unexpired term, then the vacancy shall be filled in the following manner:
The board opening shall remain vacant until the next general election of Board members. The vacancy shall be filled by the candidate receiving the 5th highest vote count. (in the event of multiple vacancies, then the 6th, and so on.) The candidate receiving the 5th (and the like) highest vote count shall serve the remaining term of vacant board seat.
The motion was seconded by Merl Whitebook.

Vote:
10 yes, 1 no, 0 abstentions
The motion to adopt a policy for the replacement of vacant Board seat, passes.

[Jeff_in_KC]

Ain't that interesting, Todd?

[Plowboy]

Ain't that interesting, Todd?

I just report the news. I don't comment on it.

BUT, it does look like we could be vote in essentially five positions next year instead of the usual four if the resignation is approved. This is the way the members should look at it, 4 votes to elect 5 people next election.

Still got those plastic lips for kissin' butts?

[Jeff_in_KC]

I just report the news. I don't comment on it.

BUT, it does look like we could be vote in essentially five positions next year instead of the usual four if the resignation is approved. This is the way the members should look at it, 4 votes to elect 5 people next election.

Still got those plastic lips for kissin' butts?

Gonna have to give it a long and thoughtful consideration first, Todd.

[Plowboy]

You got about six months. Anything to take your focus off of winning right now is okay by me. :heh:

[Jeff_in_KC]

You got about six months. Anything to take your focus off of winning right now is okay by me. :heh:

LOL!!! :laugh: That's exactly one of the things I'll have to consider. 2010 is already a better year than any whole year we've ever had in barbecue and we're really enjoying ourselves this year. Hate to lose out on that.

By the way... where are you cooking on Father's Day and your birthday next year? :twisted:

[Candy Sue]

From 2/5/2010 board meeting...




Candy Weaver made the following motion:
In the event during the term of any board member, their position becomes open, then the policy to fill the vacancy is as follows:

If a member of the board ceases to serve in the capacity as a member of the Board, during an unexpired term, then the vacancy shall be filled in the following manner:
The board opening shall remain vacant until the next general election of Board members. The vacancy shall be filled by the candidate receiving the 5th highest vote count. (in the event of multiple vacancies, then the 6th, and so on.) The candidate receiving the 5th (and the like) highest vote count shall serve the remaining term of vacant board seat.
The motion was seconded by Merl Whitebook.

Vote:
10 yes, 1 no, 0 abstentions
The motion to adopt a policy for the replacement of vacant Board seat, passes.

I hate to fight this battle again...As the lone newbie on the board, I was NOT allowed to make or second motions in February. The minutes were rewritten to reflect that Merl made the motion and Don seconded. It is my personal opinion that leaving a seat vacant for this long a period (8 months) may be a mistake. This topic was not addressed at all in this evenings board meeting. Listen to the podcast!

[moocow]

I hate to fight this battle again...As the lone newbie on the board, I was NOT allowed to make or second motions in February. The minutes were rewritten to reflect that Merl made the motion and Don seconded. It is my personal opinion that leaving a seat vacant for this long a period (8 months) may be a mistake. This topic was not addressed at all in this evenings board meeting. Listen to the podcast!
I agree, 8 months is to long! I hope the podcast is better than last month, It made me embarrassed to admit I belonged to the KCBS. With all of the bickering and all. Now I know why some members of the Board did not want the podcast.

[ThomEmery]

5 seats hummmmmmmmm

[Jeff_in_KC]

I'd like to see the re-written minutes. I know Candy did not make this motion. Although it is beyond me why the Board would try to tell someone who was legitimately elected to the Board by a huge majority that that person could not make or second any motions in February. That in itself is a crock of chit!

I now FULLY understand why the real person making the motion wanted it this way. It's clearly sunken in tonight...

[Jeff_in_KC]

I agree, 8 months is to long! I hope the podcast is better than last month, It made me embarrassed to admit I belonged to the KCBS. With all of the bickering and all. Now I know why some members of the Board did not want the podcast.

Why? Because they don't want the general membership to know that, unlike all of us who help each other at contests when needed, even though we're competing against each other, they, as the leaders of the very same organization, built on fun and friendship, can't get along with each other? :confused:

[motoeric]

It seems as if there is no opportunity to fill the vacant seat for 8 months that it leaves the door wide open to a potential BoD of like minded individuals voting block steering the KCBS with out any opposition.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Eric

[White Dog BBQ]

OK, who actually resigned?

[BBQchef33]

OK, since no one is saying anything, and it will get out eventually.

It is "my understanding" that;

Linda Mullane was "asked" to resign. (<-- read that however u want, where I come from, that usually means forced out.)


and also, Linda is no longer a rep or CBJ Instructor.

Neither is Jerry Mullane.

We have just lost a board member WE voted in, and here in the Northeast, we have also lost our NE representation, AND also, what I consider 2 of KCBS's best reps.

This action leaves us with 5, maybe 6, local reps to cover not just the NE, but the entire eastern region. I have not heard of any contingencies.

:mad2:

Thank you! Please sir, may I have another.

[Jeff_in_KC]

That is pretty similar to the way I understand it as well, Phil. I'd be interested in hearing the "why" part of all that though.

[Gowan]

OK, since no one is saying anything, and it will get out eventually.

It is MY understanding that;

Linda Mullane was "asked" to resign. (<-- read that however u want, where I come from, that usually means forced out.)




Since you're dishing, please give us it all.

If Mullane was asked to step down, as you say, who did the asking?

[Jeff Hughes]

It appears an unfortunate personal situation was used to weaken a perceived voting block on the board.

Chicken chit in my book.

[Diva]

Interesting comment.

[Ford]

I now FULLY understand why the real person making the motion wanted it this way. It's clearly sunken in tonight...
Based on voting records "that person" just lost a key voter and that leaves it basically 5-4 with 1 swing vote and of couse the president as a tie breaker.

[ThomEmery]

Since you're dishing, please give us it all.

If Mullane was asked to step down, as you say, who did the asking?


I am told out of respect to her long years of service to BBQ please do not go there

[Ford]

Let's look at reasons why a person would be asked to resign. In this case the person was a REP, CBJ instructor and BOD member. If the problem was an issue of conduct as a BOD member then only the BOD could ask for a resignation and my understanding is that is not what happened as they would have needed an executive session vote followed by a request in writing. And if I understand it correctly the BOD can not vote another BOD member out.

However if it's a problem with the other 2 roles then it's up to the office to review that and handle complaints. Then if there's a major problem the individual could be stripped of credentials for either or both role. The person could fight this action if they chose. And there could have been pressure to resign from the BOD based on the problems and actions taken against the individual. This way it all remains private unless the individual chooses to make details public and even then it's just she said/she said.

Bottom line is the individual chose to resign and they could have refused to submit a letter of resignation. Couldn't do anything about the other roles as that's not a BOD issue or election issue. The BOD lost a key member and a region lost representation. And that's a region that has experienced conflict with the KCBS in the past and probably will be again.

[ThomEmery]

Good summary

[White Dog BBQ]

VERY unfortunate. I know nothing about what happened, but I have always appreciated the work Linda and Jerry have done as reps and CBJ instructors.

This leaves a big hole in the Northeast.

[WannaBeBBQueen]

VERY unfortunate. I know nothing about what happened, but I have always appreciated the work Linda and Jerry have done as reps and CBJ instructors.

This leaves a big hole in the Northeast.

Boy is that an understatement!:eusa_clap:confused::doh:

[lunchlady]

This leaves a big hole in the Northeast.

you aint sh*ttin'... :confused:

...even though Linda and I have had differences in the past, I am deeply saddened, and more than a little confused by all this... how does someone who was recently nominated for PRESIDENT suddenly 'walk away'?

Although, I DO get it... repeatedly pissin' into the wind leaves a bad taste and a desire to get out of the way...

THANK YOU LINDA, and Jerry, for all you've accomplished, and also for all you tried to do... best of luck at the restaurant!

[Candy Sue]

For the record, it seems I have inadvertently stirred up some ch*t and I don't much care for all the misunderstanding that is going on. As a board member, I have no knowledge of any other board member being asked to resign. This is not true, this did not happen, put it away.

It was not my intention though it was the end result that any other board member be slammed by anyone else for actions taken at the February meeting. There are worse things (and far more important matters) for the board to deal with than wrestling with how or if to fill an empty seat. 8 months is a long time, but it's not forever.

It was a honor to serve on the board with Linda and I will miss her. I wish nothing but success to her and her family in every endeavor. Times are hard, folks, and doing what we do at any level, whether judge, rep or cook, is expensive in time and money.

I have nothing but respect and affection for EVERYONE who serves on the board of KCBS. It's a thankless job. EVERY ONE of us serves out of love of barbeque and thank goodness, we are not all alike! Each of us brings different strengths to the board table and it makes KCBS a stronger organization for it.

[Merl]

I hate to fight this battle again...As the lone newbie on the board, I was NOT allowed to make or second motions in February. The minutes were rewritten to reflect that Merl made the motion and Don seconded. It is my personal opinion that leaving a seat vacant for this long a period (8 months) may be a mistake. This topic was not addressed at all in this evenings board meeting. Listen to the podcast!


This is false and those who posted it know it. I will not debate it here, but take this matter to the Board. You know that my motion was as follows, which I still believe would have been the best policy: (from the agenda for February 5th.)

Policy for the replace of Members of the Board. by Merl Whitebook

In the event during the term of any board member, their position becomes open, then we should have a policy in place. The following policy is recommended.

If a member of the board ceases to serve in the capacity as a member of the Board, during an unexpired term, then the board shall fill the vacancy in the following manner:

1. KCBS shall announce the vacancy and accept nominations to fill the position.
2. Nominations shall close 10 days prior to the next Board meeting.
3. Candidates will have 5 days to complete the election questionnaire and submit to the Board along with any other materials which they desire to submit to the Board.
4. Candidates will be allowed up to 5 minutes to present themselves in person or by phone at the next Board Meeting.
5. Board members may ask questions to the candidates.
6 Unless all members of the board are attending in person, the vote shall be by roll call oral vote.
7. In the event of a tie, the president shall cast the deciding vote.

Now others who posted here can say what they want. But the truth is out there. I was the only member of the Board who voted against the motion that was passed. I do not think it was the best policy. If my policy had not been objected to by a member of the board then Jeff very likely would be on the Board next month.

Since there was only one no vote, I guess you will have ask the other members of the Board how they voted.

Folks, I am not going to be thrown under the bus for the fun of a few members of the forum who have posted. Look at the facts and then make an informed decision.

Thank you for reading this.
Merl

Moderator: I understand if this is out of line and you have to remove it. But I should not have to have lies said about me any more. I am trying to state the facts which are in the record only.

[Gowan]

I for one will certainly be reviewing the recordings of the BoD meetings. It is only through that sort of transparency that we the members can determine for ourselves what the Truth is in these type of conflicts.

Thank you to everyone who helped to add this "check & balance" to the KCBS governance.

[Plowboy]

I hate to fight this battle again...As the lone newbie on the board, I was NOT allowed to make or second motions in February. The minutes were rewritten to reflect that Merl made the motion and Don seconded. It is my personal opinion that leaving a seat vacant for this long a period (8 months) may be a mistake. This topic was not addressed at all in this evenings board meeting. Listen to the podcast!

Sorry, Candy. I looked through the minutes posted on the KCBS Website and this is what I found. Since there was speculation about the 5th vote getter replacing the resigning BOD member, I posted it. I pulled it from www.kcbs.us. If it is wrong... I don't know.

[Candy Sue]

This is false and those who posted it know it. I will not debate it here, but take this matter to the Board. You know that my motion was as follows, which I still believe would have been the best policy: (from the agenda for February 5th.)

<edited> Folks, I am not going to be thrown under the bus for the fun of a few members of the forum who have posted. Look at the facts and then make an informed decision.

Thank you for reading this.
Merl

Moderator: I understand if this is out of line and you have to remove it. But I should not have to have lies said about me any more. I am trying to state the facts which are in the record only.

Merl, nobody likes being called a liar. Since you quoted me above your post, the logical assumption is that you are calling me a liar. I am not an attorney, I do not threaten anyone with libel, slander or any other litigiousness. I do have the right to stand up for myself and state that I AM NOT A LIAR! Thank goodness we do have podcasts so that our members can see how board meetings flow, if they have the patience to listen it through. You can spin this and manipulate this however you want to, but the truth will always prevail. The podcast is a live recording.

Merl, I like you and respect you and I'm not lying about that either.

[moocow]

I was one of the people pushing for the pod-casts, I guess I did not know what I was actually asking for.:crazy: I was asking so I could be informed about what was going on and all I seem to get now is pissed off after listening to a bunch of adults behave like children. I have not heard last nights Pod-cast yet and I hope it is not more of the same. Hell, after reading all of this I would not be surprised if there was an emergency meeting today to block the release of the pod-cast so we could not hear what actually happened. I have only been a member for 4 years so I am pretty new to this game but I would consider myself a proud member of the KCBS and it hurts a little to hear all of this. I won't claim to know who is right and who is wrong or who is telling the truth and who is not but this needs to stop! In my oppinion we already have our next replacement BOD member. Its Jeff because any way you look at it he got the next highest amount of votes! He has already been voted in by the members. I must admit he is a friend of mine but I would feel the same way if it was not him.

[Merl]

Merl, nobody likes being called a liar. Since you quoted me above your post, the logical assumption is that you are calling me a liar. I am not an attorney, I do not threaten anyone with libel, slander or any other litigiousness. I do have the right to stand up for myself and state that I AM NOT A LIAR! Thank goodness we do have podcasts so that our members can see how board meetings flow, if they have the patience to listen it through. You can spin this and manipulate this however you want to, but the truth will always prevail. The podcast is a live recording.

Merl, I like you and respect you and I'm not lying about that either.

Since you choose to again call me out, and you began this post please affirm or deny the following:

1. That my motion was as posted on the agenda and on this site from February 5. (nothing close to what was passed and probably would have resulted in Jeff being on the board next month.)

2. That you opposed my motion.
3. That you made suggestions to the board that ultimately lead to the the policy of the board for replacement of board members.
4. That you voted yes for the current policy.
5. That I voted no.

Awaiting your frank response, since you want to debate this issue here and not in the board room where it should be discussed.

Thank you
Merl

Moderater: Again I cannot let this go. I will not allow my integrety to not be defended when false accusations are being made. If I need to be banned, then so be it. But I will respond when questioned.

[Just Pulin' Pork]

I was one of the people pushing for the pod-casts, I guess I did not know what I was actually asking for.:crazy: I was asking so I could be informed about what was going on and all I seem to get now is pissed off after listening to a bunch of adults behave like children. I have not heard last nights Pod-cast yet and I hope it is not more of the same. Hell, after reading all of this I would not be surprised if there was an emergency meeting today to block the release of the pod-cast so we could not hear what actually happened. I have only been a member for 4 years so I am pretty new to this game but I would consider myself a proud member of the KCBS and it hurts a little to hear all of this. I won't claim to know who is right and who is wrong or who is telling the truth and who is not but this needs to stop! In my oppinion we already have our next replacement BOD member. Its Jeff because any way you look at it he got the next highest amount of votes! He has already been voted in by the members. I must admit he is a friend of mine but I would feel the same way if it was not him.


Well said Shane I have to agree!

[Candy Sue]

I do not care to respond here about this any further. I hope you have a great day!

[WannaBeBBQueen]

So where can I find the podcast when it's released?

[motoeric]

For the record, it seems I have inadvertently stirred up some ch*t and I don't much care for all the misunderstanding that is going on. As a board member, I have no knowledge of any other board member being asked to resign. This is not true, this did not happen, put it away.


Just to be crystal clear, are you saying that Linda was NOT asked to resign or that if she was you weren't aware of it?

Eric

[moocow]

So where can I find the podcast when it's released?
It is on the home page of the KCBS website. Usually under news I think.

[Jacked UP BBQ]

Man and I thought it was just money, charcoal, wood, and meat!

[WannaBeBBQueen]

Man and I thought it was just money, charcoal, wood, and meat!

To quote what Jerry Mullane said to me "it just BBQ don't let it get you upset, have a good time!"...well Jerry it may just be BBQ but without you and Linda it just won't be the same. All this has made my mood and tummy very upset! The Mullanes' were a wonderful addition to our BBQ world and it just won't be the same without them!!!:Cry:

[C-Town Smoker]

Should anyone be interested in coming on the air to get their point across I would be happy to make time for those individuals...this way no one can argue with what was written or otherwise. Not looking for a Jerry Springer deal just an impartial forum for their takes.

[Jorge]

At this point, I'm asking myself what I'm getting for $35/yr. in dues. I don't KNOW why Linda chose to resign. At this point, I don't care if I ever KNOW.

What I do KNOW is that I'm sick and tired of the bickering, accusations, and whispering of half the story with a spin attached. Personally I think Jeff Stith should be happier than a pig in slop to not be tossed into what has become some sort of blood sport. I'm not referring to any member(s) in particular, but the board as a whole. For it to have come to this point should be an embarrassment to anyone involved. As a member, it embarrasses the hell out of me.

I can vote with my wallet, and with my ballot. My membership is good through Feb. of 2011, so that leaves the ballot. I've had it watching 8 yr. olds fighting over a pail in the sandbox. During the next election, I WILL NOT cast a vote for any candidate that has served on the board within the last 4-5 years. While that may sacrifice some experience, I'm willing to take that risk. I want some fresh ideas, members willing to serve that don't have a truckload of grudges, etc...

[Bunny]

Well, since I'm stuck at home after surgery I decided to actually sit through the complete podcast. (Oh, the memories:boxing:). It's good to take time off after you've been on the BOD awhile and then go listen to a meeting again. It was quite obvious why the BOD doesn't progress as well as it could. With that being said:

:clap2:I stand up and applaude Candy Weaver for standing up for the small contests and mainly the COOKERS!! Yoo Hoo. You made me proud to listen to what you had to say about this organization and it's cookers. And thank you, Mike Budai, for standing right behind her.

And very glad to hear what Mike McCloud had to say. Ed Roith said it well when he told Mike what great progress his company has given to KCBS. Well done.:thumb:

And thank you, Linda Mullane, for all of your dedication. I know how much time you put into it.

Bunny

[Plowboy]

Jorge in 2011


<Sometime, somewhere, somehow... I'm going to regret this post.>

[Bentley]

My membership is good through Feb. of 2011, so that leaves the ballot. I've had it watching 8 yr. olds fighting over a pail in the sandbox. During the next election, I WILL NOT cast a vote for any candidate that has served on the board within the last 4-5 years.

Mine expires about the same time.

I have been doing this for the last 7 years, has not made much of a difference yet. Maybe if more folks like yourself, a person I have never met, but have come to respect due to private messages through this board will speak up, it can be accomplished.

[Westexbbq]

Alas, mine expires July 31.
(Heavy sigh)
Very disappointed to learn of all this;
need time to ponder.

[ThomEmery]

At times it is almost like watching Pro Wrestling

[Scottie]

Jorge in 2011


<Sometime, somewhere, somehow... I'm going to regret this post.>


Glad you did it and not me... Although.. If you are needing a second.. I'll second.... :twisted:

[Jeff_in_KC]

Guys, please don't give up on our organization. Remember, it is OUR organization. When you give up on it, it is no longer ours. During my campaign, I continually pointed out that the in-fighting and bickering HAS to stop! In addition to that, what has to be put to an end are the bad attitudes, the self-serving agendas and the "axe to grind" personalities. That won't happen until we have REAL term limits. When a problem arises, how does it help us to have the problem person sit out one term then re-run for a seat? The problem keeps on coming back. My belief is we extend to three terms of three years each and that's IT. Done. Forever. No running again in the future! We as competitors operate under a spirit of cooperation and helping our fellow competitors. So why do we continue to look away while some of the leaders of the very same organization act completely opposite and AGAINST the very reason the organization was founded?

[motoeric]

Guys, please don't give up on our organization. Remember, it is OUR organization.

In general, Jeff, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I'm finding some difficulty right now in seeing how it is our organization.


Eric

[WannaBeBBQueen]

Alas, mine expires July 31.
(Heavy sigh)
Very disappointed to learn of all this;
need time to ponder.

I just renewed :confused:...not sure what I'll do next year.

[Ford]

Well, since I'm stuck at home after surgery I decided to actually sit through the complete podcast. Bunny
No surgery but I did listen today. Can't wait to hear this months. And wasn't that a pretty long executive session?

1. It amazes me that the BOD allows a contractor to have full access to talk and argue with BOD members. I've never seen this with any organization I've been a part of.

2. I think MMA is doing a great job for the KCBS and is producing a strong revenue stream. That the KCBS can get a deal with SAMS is wonderful. Not sure why the announcement was so secret when the April BOD meeting talked about and around many details and was posted on-line on 4-16. And it's obvious that the presentation by MMA to the BOD included numbers for KCBS revenue in excess of $200,000 per year after the first year or they wouldn't have discussed both a hard number of $50k and a 25% number, Need to listen to the discussion before and after the executive session and I think you'll see what I mean. And that's just net revenue they were talking about.

3. Obviously some members want the KCBS to be run as a not for profit business using all the attendant rules and others like the idea of a small association with loose rules and no need to follow procedure. And it's obvious that there's no compromise on any side. It's maybe a bad thing that BOD members are not all in the room together. Some things probably would not be said in the same room that are said on the phone.

4. Sounds more and more like the idea of not voting for any incumbent or individual that has been on the BOD in the last few years is a good idea. (posted here earlier).

5. IMHO the KCBS as it exists is in it's death throws. We're too big, money is getting too big. There's tremendous opportunity for growth but to capitalize on many opportunities it will take a for profit business mentality and decision making structure. I hope I'm wrong but I think somebody is going to figure out how to take control with a buyout or whatever - have no idea how it could work but I think it will happen.

[stan]

Jeff I agree we still must support our organization. Everyone has to make there own decision on whether by not renewing their membership will force the board to stop the fighting and attitudes! If enough do it I would say they would have to look at it but I don't think enough people will do it to make a big enough impact. Like Jorge I think we must change it through the elections! My 2 cents!

[Pig Headed]

I just renewed :confused:...not sure what I'll do next year.
Ditto, I just renewed Tuesday. WTF???

[MAsQue]

Guys, please don't give up on our organization. Remember, it is OUR organization. When you give up on it, it is no longer ours. During my campaign, I continually pointed out that the in-fighting and bickering HAS to stop! In addition to that, what has to be put to an end are the bad attitudes, the self-serving agendas and the "axe to grind" personalities. That won't happen until we have REAL term limits. When a problem arises, how does it help us to have the problem person sit out one term then re-run for a seat? The problem keeps on coming back. My belief is we extend to three terms of three years each and that's IT. Done. Forever. No running again in the future! We as competitors operate under a spirit of cooperation and helping our fellow competitors. So why do we continue to look away while some of the leaders of the very same organization act completely opposite and AGAINST the very reason the organization was founded?

Jeff has it right. Walking away is the absolute last protest you want to use, because you have NOTHING you can follow up with. Success, accompanied by comparative wealth, always causes trouble in a service organization. You need to make sure the directors are taking the organization in the direction the membership wants it to go. That requires staying and voting and participating.

[Smoke'n Ice]

Has anyone considered that a majority of the members of KCBS do NOT frequent forums and are oblivious to the day-to-day items that occur? Their only source of news from KCBS is the “Bull Sheet.” If one must convey a message to the masses, it MUST be via the “Bull Sheet” or other media and if they let you take out an ad addressing these items and inviting the members to participate, it will fall on deaf ears. I cannot remember the last time I looked at one of the ads in the “Bull Sheet” and the only reason I go to the website is to look at upcoming events or check that my name was spelled right in the results.

Our, and I consider myself a breathern, goal should be to quit offering out a litany of problems but instead offering out a litany of solutions. If this means buying a mailing list of all KCBS members and doing mass MARKETING, then put me down for a share of the cost. You will notice that I used the term marketing and not complaining! I firmly believe that you are either a part of the problem or part of the solution. I for one wish to be a part of the solution and withholding my membership dues would nullify any and all things that I had to say as I would be an OUTSIDER looking in with ABSOLUTLY no say.

I’m off my very short (fits my stature) soap box and please forgive me if I offended or struck too close to home.

[HoDeDo]

I will miss Linda and Jerry as well. When I got my 680 at Oink last year, they were almost more excited about it than I was... #1 - I didnt even get to my score sheets, before they shared that tidbit... #2... they were so excited, because it was a score that had not been seen in a KCBS event out there in what I believe she said was several years. They are all about expanding BBQ in the NE. Thier dedication to BBQ and the contestants was top notch. I cooked for the Placid Judges class last year also, and they were great to work with on that effort as well. Thanks Linda and Jerry!!

[Bunny]

Guys, please don't give up on our organization. Remember, it is OUR organization. When you give up on it, it is no longer ours. During my campaign, I continually pointed out that the in-fighting and bickering HAS to stop! In addition to that, what has to be put to an end are the bad attitudes, the self-serving agendas and the "axe to grind" personalities. That won't happen until we have REAL term limits. When a problem arises, how does it help us to have the problem person sit out one term then re-run for a seat? The problem keeps on coming back. My belief is we extend to three terms of three years each and that's IT. Done. Forever. No running again in the future! We as competitors operate under a spirit of cooperation and helping our fellow competitors. So why do we continue to look away while some of the leaders of the very same organization act completely opposite and AGAINST the very reason the organization was founded?

Jeff,
You are exactly right. You've got our votes for sure. And that's exactly why I quoted it was good to sit out after serving on the BOD. It takes a good year just to come down and realize there's a beautiful bbq world still out there. I wouldn't run again because we have too many great candidates out there that could contribute quality ideas for our future. Rich and I sure haven't given up on KCBS and never will. Let the bickering self-destruct those who speak it, but let's not stop fighting for the goodwill of our future. We have a superb society and it will get better by helping each other stand for what is true and right.

Rich and Bunny Tuttle
KCass BBQ established 1987

[Jeff Hughes]

Jorge in 2011




I agree, and Scottie too...

[Scottie]

I agree, and Scottie too...



Hell has not frozen over Jeff!!!!

****I also withdraw my nomination of Jorge. Something about getting heavy equipment rental for me and Todd at Shannon.

[Jeff Hughes]

My understanding is that Jorge owns the "heavy equipment", though I doubt he rents or loans...

Scottie, maybe you can get your buddy Steve to run, we need some straight up common sense on the BOD...

[Yakfishingfool]

As I see it there are two options. If KCBS is "IT" then the norhteast needs to run, run hard with lots of grassroots effort. Not just one election but two or three. Get members on there and make changes.

Option two is to say we can do it better. Rival organization with the support and power of the northeast behind it. This is smacking of physicians and my situation in health care. They, both KCBS and MD's, have self dictated that they are the gold standard in their respective field. They are only the gold standard as long as we, the people, the consumers, allow them. Today we decide, is KCBS the only BBQ organization to exist to meet our needs?

[G$]

As Yak said, "walking away" from KCBS does not neccesarily mean that you afre walking a way form your friends, your commitment to promotoing and advancing BBQ, the organization and conduction of contests, or the comraderie that is associated with those items.

[Jeff_in_KC]

Why reinvent the wheel though? There's no reason that, with proper leadership, that KCBS cannot meet the needs of everyone in all parts of the country. We, as members, just need to make it happen! And that's gonna take better than 20&#37; voter turn-out! That was absolutely ridiculous!

[Jorge]

I agree with Jeff. The organization, and infrastructure is there. IF the membership will make it clear that we require a change, and vote accordingly there is no need to start from the ground up.

[Jacked UP BBQ]

On a level of how does this entire thing really affect you???????? Me, it doesn't. I use the KCBS for what it is. It is a governing body of BBQ comps, thats all. To get all worked up about stuff that goes on in a board room about stuff that will not tamper with your personal life is stupid. I am not sure why anyone would even want to be on the board, you will never make everyone happy and all you will do is make more enemies then friends. My take on the entire thing is let them do what they do and continue on with your life. There were BBQ comps before the KCBS and there will be after if something were to happen. Stick with BBQ for what it is, not for politics and nonsense.

[BogsBBQ]

This post contains my own personal views, and does not represent any organization whatsoever.

Here are some things to think about:

1) The Board members of any organization should not be arguing/fighting in public. It is unprofessional and has a negative impact on the entire Board. If there are arguments to be had, have them in private. After you have the argument: get over it, act like adults, and keep in mind that you are all there to serve the organization/membership.

2) Everyone should understand that any organization that grows from a being very small to very large is going to experience some growing pains. For this reason, I try to cut people some slack and I realize that mistakes are going to be made. But when I see people being fired without cause and people completely abandoning an organization (whether forced out or not), it makes me wonder what the heck is going on. And multiple times in the recent past? It also makes me wonder if there are certain personalities on the board that are just impossible to get along with and/or there are personal agendas in the mix.

3) I agree with G$. You can be part of other organizations that may be a better fit with your own personal views on what a barbecue organization should be...how it should be run, what the real objectives are, etc. The wheel doesn't need to be totally reinvented. I voted for change in every election since becoming a member. Nothing has changed, as far as I can tell. How long should I keep voting...and keep waiting? As long as people keep voting for the familiar names they see on the ballots, nothing will change. I know first-hand about the frustration people are experiencing.

Jared

[moocow]

How many of you have emailed the entire board on an issue? I have done it three times and all three and all three I have gotten a favorable outcome. I not saying this works every time but when someone gets a lot of respectful and intelligent emails from the members I would tend to think they will listen. They my not agree but at least they know there is a concern. In the long run it may make no deference but at least you can say you tried to do something about it.

[Hershey BBQ Guy]

Very sad to hear about Linda's decision to resign... but I am sure she had good reasons for her decision. It is also sad to hear that both she and Jerry will no longer be Reps.

I still have fond memories of my KCBS CBJ class that they taught and the laughs that we had. I have enjoyed working with them at comps and wish them all the best going forward.

Now I MUST make a road trip to Pig Daddy's!

[Jeff_in_KC]

On a level of how does this entire thing really affect you???????? Me, it doesn't. I use the KCBS for what it is. It is a governing body of BBQ comps, thats all. To get all worked up about stuff that goes on in a board room about stuff that will not tamper with your personal life is stupid. I am not sure why anyone would even want to be on the board, you will never make everyone happy and all you will do is make more enemies then friends. My take on the entire thing is let them do what they do and continue on with your life. There were BBQ comps before the KCBS and there will be after if something were to happen. Stick with BBQ for what it is, not for politics and nonsense.

At this point, maybe it doesn't effect you. Who's to say that at some point in the future it won't get to a point where it does? Some people are just more interested in making OUR organization a great organization I guess. And KCBS means more to me than to have that kind of attitude about it. I guess if you understand where it all came from, it is more meaningful. That's why many people are up in arms over the bullchit going on now...

[Jacked UP BBQ]

At this point, maybe it doesn't effect you. Who's to say that at some point in the future it won't get to a point where it does? Some people are just more interested in making OUR organization a great organization I guess. And KCBS means more to me than to have that kind of attitude about it. I guess if you understand where it all came from, it is more meaningful. That's why many people are up in arms over the bullchit going on now...

Just give me one example how it could affect me? I think a lot of this is over thought. I don't have a negative attitude about it, but it is just an organization led by volunteers. Where did it come from that would make me more understanding. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter where you are from, it is where you are at. Things grow and change, some people cannot accept it. As far as the fights go, PATHETIC!

[YankeeBBQ]

Just give me one example how it could affect me?

You never know they might outlaw Wasabi Cream sauce ribs :crazy:

[dreed]

I nominate Matt for the next BOD seat.

[butt head]

Just give me one example how it could affect me? I think a lot of this is over thought. I don't have a negative attitude about it, but it is just an organization led by volunteers. Where did it come from that would make me more understanding. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter where you are from, it is where you are at. Things grow and change, some people cannot accept it. As far as the fights go, PATHETIC!
how about most of the contest that you enter are sanctioned by KCBS and with out that you may not get the payouts that are their now

[BogsBBQ]

I think an organization can be as little or as much as you want it to be. And a member can also choose to be heavily involved in it or not involved at all. Bad decisions, mistakes, and BS in general on the part of the organization tends to get people more involved and want change. Others don't care and have no desire to get involved in something they feel doesn't really affect them. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong...just a matter of personal choice.

Jared

[Jacked UP BBQ]

how about most of the contest that you enter are sanctioned by KCBS and with out that you may not get the payouts that are their now

Not sure I understand what the KCBS has to do with organizers getting sponsors for payouts and collecting money for entry fees to put in the prize pool? If you are sayng that people enter contests because they are sanctioned, it seems to me that eveyone hates the KCBS so you won't see people entering anyway. KCBS wasn't the first astronaut on the moon, they have a base organization that runs BBQ comps, no harder then a local little league running a rec baseball program. There are plenty of brains out there that can take the idea and run with it.

[butt head]

good point, but look at maba they have been trying for several years to grow and sanction more but without the support of the members it is not happening like thay want

[Divemaster]

Not sure I understand what the KCBS has to do with organizers getting sponsors for payouts and collecting money for entry fees to put in the prize pool? If you are sayng that people enter contests because they are sanctioned, it seems to me that eveyone hates the KCBS so you won't see people entering anyway. KCBS wasn't the first astronaut on the moon, they have a base organization that runs BBQ comps, no harder then a local little league running a rec baseball program. There are plenty of brains out there that can take the idea and run with it.
I think a prime example of it is the problems we as competitors found with the Dells. It wasn't until KCBS & the BOD got involved that the whole money thing was cleaned up.

[Ford]

Bingo - it's some protection for the cooks. Look at how few contests have had a problem with payouts since 2004 when the BOD voted in soem teeth to sanctioning.

[chopshop]

Not sure I understand what the KCBS has to do with organizers getting sponsors for payouts and collecting money for entry fees to put in the prize pool? If you are sayng that people enter contests because they are sanctioned, it seems to me that eveyone hates the KCBS so you won't see people entering anyway. KCBS wasn't the first astronaut on the moon, they have a base organization that runs BBQ comps, no harder then a local little league running a rec baseball program. There are plenty of brains out there that can take the idea and run with it.

THATS IT!!! everyone needs to go and talk to the head of our local little leagues. We could have them run it and i agree with 3 men and a baby back, MATT FOR PRESIDENT. I'll be the treasurer!:-P

[motoeric]

Why reinvent the wheel though? There's no reason that, with proper leadership, that KCBS cannot meet the needs of everyone in all parts of the country.

I guess the question then is how long are you going to keep hoping that things will be fixed?

If you are not happy with certain aspects of the KCBS, how long will you attempt to enact change to no avail before you step away?

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

You don't need any sanctioning body to have an event be qualified for the invitationals. You can create a spreadsheet for scoring. You can make judges slips at Kinko's.

Eric

[Bunny]

At this point, maybe it doesn't effect you. Who's to say that at some point in the future it won't get to a point where it does? Some people are just more interested in making OUR organization a great organization I guess. And KCBS means more to me than to have that kind of attitude about it. I guess if you understand where it all came from, it is more meaningful. That's why many people are up in arms over the bullchit going on now...

It does affect members everytime there is a decision. We have to remember who our customers are who are the contest organizers. A BOD decision affects that through monies, rules, regs which you the cooker abide by. Then there are the reps that follow decisons and rules, regs, etc, which you also abide by. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it does affect every member cooking a KCBS contest. It's good to get input from the cookers because without them there would be no contest organizers, no judges or reps! Decisions made by the BOD affect everyone in the organization. Trickle down.

[PimpSmoke]

I guess the question then is how long are you going to keep hoping that things will be fixed?

If you are not happy with certain aspects of the KCBS, how long will you attempt to enact change to no avail before you step away?

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

You don't need any sanctioning body to have an event be qualified for the invitationals. You can create a spreadsheet for scoring. You can make judges slips at Kinko's.

Eric

While I don't necessarily wish for the KCBS to go away, this has been accomplished by a lot of organizations, and this is a good point.

For example ASA softball. ASA doesn't necessarily HAVE to sanction a league for it to utilize "ASA" rules. A lot of leagues and competition organizations adopt rules that have been written previously, especially if they are well known rules. All that would be needed is a rule written in for a "umpire" of sorts to enforce the rules.

[BBQchef33]

While I don't necessarily wish for the KCBS to go away, this has been accomplished by a lot of organizations, and this is a good point.

For example ASA softball. ASA doesn't necessarily HAVE to sanction a league for it to utilize "ASA" rules. A lot of leagues and competition organizations adopt rules that have been written previously, especially if they are well known rules. All that would be needed is a rule written in for a "umpire" of sorts to enforce the rules.


I wish this was true.

Try running an unsanctioned event with "KCBS rules" and prepare yourself for a cease and desist letter from there legal department. Small contests that cant afford sanctioning fees, rep fees, lodging, travel, etc are not allowed to use "KCBS RULES", scoring, etc...Not even a place mat...

so..... they use a sharpie and a piece of paper for place mats, go to kinko for judges slips and use excel spread sheets for scoring. All this instead of using something tried and true to grow to improve the event to the point where they ARE able to afford sanctioning and the like. Instead, they just have to hack it.

I know the rules, i know the logic behind it, and understand tweaking one thing or another gets past the issue. I have heard all the point/counter points.. and im not opening up the can of worms.. Just stating my view of the bridge and I just dont agree with the whole concept.

anyway.. sorry.. back on topic.

[Plowboy]

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).


I think you are overly minimizing the effect of a sanctioning body. A standard set of rules is pretty important across contests.

[PimpSmoke]

I wish this was true.

Try running an unsanctioned event with "KCBS rules" and prepare yourself for a cease and desist letter from there legal department. Small contests that cant afford sanctioning fees, rep fees, lodging, travel, etc are not allowed to use "KCBS RULES", scoring, etc...Not even a place mat...

so..... they use a sharpie and a piece of paper for place mats, go to kinko for judges slips and use excel spread sheets for scoring. All this instead of using something tried and true to grow to improve the event to the point where they ARE able to afford sanctioning and the like. Instead, they just have to hack it.

I know the rules, i know the logic behind it, and understand tweaking one thing or another gets past the issue. I have heard all the point/counter points.. and im not opening up the can of worms.. Just stating my view of the bridge and I just dont agree with the whole concept.

anyway.. sorry.. back on topic.


KCBS is a "non-profit", correct?

Like I said before, I like sanctioning, I like KCBS, but to play DA here, they don't really have a leg.

"Kansas City style rules apply" is all that is needed.

[Ford]

I guess the question then is how long are you going to keep hoping that things will be fixed?

If you are not happy with certain aspects of the KCBS, how long will you attempt to enact change to no avail before you step away?

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

You don't need any sanctioning body to have an event be qualified for the invitationals. You can create a spreadsheet for scoring. You can make judges slips at Kinko's.

Eric
We know the KCBS will guarantee the money. Without them the Dells would have paid well over half in credits at the outlet mall and the sponsors restaurant. It can happen anywhere.

We know the scoring system. If another unsanctioned contest uses the same numbers and advertises that then the KCBS can sue.

We know that the reps will do the best they can to amke sure the turn in process is run correctly and that blind judging is truly blind and that the local team is not identified to local judges.

The KCBS has proven to give us all of this. I've cooked unsanctioned cotnests and some were good and sosme bad. You're taking your chances. And I've been competing for over 10 years.

[PimpSmoke]

We know the KCBS will guarantee the money. Without them the Dells would have paid well over half in credits at the outlet mall and the sponsors restaurant. It can happen anywhere.

We know the scoring system. If another unsanctioned contest uses the same numbers and advertises that then the KCBS can sue.

We know that the reps will do the best they can to amke sure the turn in process is run correctly and that blind judging is truly blind and that the local team is not identified to local judges.

The KCBS has proven to give us all of this. I've cooked unsanctioned cotnests and some were good and sosme bad. You're taking your chances. And I've been competing for over 10 years.

This is also a good point (not to discredit Pooh Bear).

So, as members how do we vote? I've asked before, how do we AS MEMBERS make a difference?

[falldownbbq]

Matt from Jacked up for president

[Jeff_in_KC]

So, as members how do we vote? I've asked before, how do we AS MEMBERS make a difference?

I thought before that you just VOTE. But I've learned that those who can't get along, can't cooperate, don't respect each other and govern like 10 year olds aren't the biggest problem. The biggest problems are the members who don't bother to vote them out. With 22% voter turn-out like this year, the problems are relaxing in their seats and getting comfortable while those of us who care about KCBS are losing patience and getting frustrated. So you make a difference by getting the word out everywhere and anywhere you can that members MUST utilize their right and responsibility and VOTE.

[Ford]

The biggest problems are the members who don't bother to vote them out. With 22&#37; voter turn-out like this year, the problems are relaxing in their seats and getting comfortable while those of us who care about KCBS are losing patience and getting frustrated. So you make a difference by getting the word out everywhere and anywhere you can that members MUST utilize their right and responsibility and VOTE.
Jeff

With all due respect a 22% voter turnout for a not for profit organization is a tremendous voter turnout. I think it represents probably close to a 1000 cooks and that's probably half the cook teams who are members. The others cook 1-2 contests locally and don't care about TOY or anything else. Local elections - school board, etc often don't get a 20% turnout.

Also while we are very passionate about all this the vast majority of members do not know what is going on and many read the bullsheet and maybe judge one contest and do a little backyard cooking. None of the issues before the BOD impact them. It's typical of an organization this size. And no offense to judges but a number of them join to do 1 contest and get free food.

Last - a couple of Brethren ran last year and I believe all the members here voted for our candidates. BUT that wasn't enough. It says while there's lots of discussion there just are not enough members here to do it. More Brethren need to join KCBS. Over the next 3-4 months there should be a campaign here to get Brethren to join the KCBS. That might be the best chance for making change with our votes.

[C-Town Smoker]

KCBS is "not for profit" right now...if it was changed to a "for profit" would that make anything better?

[SirPorkaLot]

On a level of how does this entire thing really affect you???????? Me, it doesn't. I use the KCBS for what it is. It is a governing body of BBQ comps, thats all. To get all worked up about stuff that goes on in a board room about stuff that will not tamper with your personal life is stupid. I am not sure why anyone would even want to be on the board, you will never make everyone happy and all you will do is make more enemies then friends. My take on the entire thing is let them do what they do and continue on with your life. There were BBQ comps before the KCBS and there will be after if something were to happen. Stick with BBQ for what it is, not for politics and nonsense.

Exactly!

KCBS is a sanctioning organization for BBQ comps, nothing more, nothing less for the most of us.
It is one of many and yes it happens to be the biggest right now, but with all the in-fighting, it won't be for long.

KCBS board seems to have populated itself with pompous a$$es, that are not really interested in furthering BBQ, but furthering KCBS - at the cost of it's core constituents - the cookers. :mad2:

I have cooked in a first year non-sanctioned contest last fall that was better organized, better funded, and better attended that a KCBS comp I attended 2 weeks ago. :shocked:

I am a first year (and last) member of KCBS, and just don't quite "get" what all the fuss it about.

I agree with an earlier poster that there is a lot of opportunities out there to grow this sport, and there is a lot more money funneling into it - but an organization that is headed by an informal BOD (contractor's involved in BOD meetings? what a joke..The organization might as well me renamed the MMA BBQ Association) is not the type of organization that can take advantage of this.

If KCBS wants to see what a small family run organization can do if steered properly can do - they only need to look to the beginnings of NASCAR.
If they want to see what a badly run organization can do - they only need to look in the mirror.

[Ford]

If KCBS wants to see what a small family run organization can do if steered properly can do - they only need to look to the beginnings of NASCAR.
If they want to see what a badly run organization can do - they only need to look in the mirror.
Amazing. Lets compare a for profit to a not for profit. Lets compare a small tightly run family busienss to a national organization.

By law they are run differently and there's just no comparison.

Mods: delete if you want but I'm jsut sick and tired about people bashing the BOD all the time. They are volunteers. They are all trying. It's time people stop being the problem and start being the solution. Within the by-laws of the KCBS we need suggestions and options not this constant bashing.

[SirPorkaLot]

Amazing. Lets compare a for profit to a not for profit. Lets compare a small tightly run family busienss to a national organization.

By law they are run differently and there's just no comparison.

Mods: delete if you want but I'm jsut sick and tired about people bashing the BOD all the time. They are volunteers. They are all trying. It's time people stop being the problem and start being the solution. Within the by-laws of the KCBS we need suggestions and options not this constant bashing.


Not bashing at all - I welcome your input, as I am sure the BOD welcomes all input - good & bad.
Just calling it as i see it.

I have run for-profit organizations with million's in annual revenues for years, i am quite versed in how for-profit organizations are managed - both good & bad.

I admit I do not have any experience running a non-profit, but do recognize a poorly run organization when I see one.

If you had been at the American Bass Anglers BBQ Tour (KCBS sanctioned event) I was recently at, you would have been as shocked and dismayed as I was, at what a mockery the ABA made out of the the KCBS portion of this event.

Volunteers who get little recognition for what they do - I am familiar with though, and they have my sympathy.
A BOD of a homeowners' association can't even make simple decisions without in-fighting and back biting going on, I am not sure how we expect an organization with as many members and revenue stream as KCBS to do it.

Which is why I am a proponent of remaking the largest BBQ sanctioning organization in the US into something that works.
I don't have a road map or a plan on how to do it, I just don't see it continuing to function (dysfunction is more accurate) as it is currently.

[bbqpitstop]

Lots of great posts and opinions here. I am a member of KCBS, a CBJ and I voted in the 22&#37; of voter turnout. All I'm going to say here is I'm currently writing an article for the National Barbecue News on behalf of the National Barbecue Association inviting EVERYONE to join our organization. While plenty of us are also involved with KCBS, there are members of MABA, MBN and numerous other sanctioning bodies and non sanctioned contest organizers. Smoker manufacturers, rub and sauce manufacturers and bottlers, you name it, it's covered in this association. Just wanted all to know that there is a place out there to belong to a bbq family without limiting yourselves to a sanctioning body. Hope you'll all consider it, I've benefited tremendously from being a part of their board and as a business member. Unlike a lot of organizations, we're expected to be on both the receiving and giving end as members and it seems to make our world go round. More explanation in my article, hope you'll all read it.

[motoeric]

Just wanted all to know that there is a place out there to belong to a bbq family without limiting yourselves to a sanctioning body.

I appreciate the sentiment and look forward to reading the article.

I may be encouraging thread drift here, but if someone off the street were to ask you why they should join the national bbq association, what would say?

As far as the 'family' and being part of a larger BBQ community, we pretty much have that right here as members of the BBQ Brethren (not that this would preclude joining or participating in any other organization).


Eric

[Haltech]

Lots of great posts and opinions here. I am a member of KCBS, a CBJ and I voted in the 22% of voter turnout. All I'm going to say here is I'm currently writing an article for the National Barbecue News on behalf of the National Barbecue Association inviting EVERYONE to join our organization. While plenty of us are also involved with KCBS, there are members of MABA, MBN and numerous other sanctioning bodies and non sanctioned contest organizers. Smoker manufacturers, rub and sauce manufacturers and bottlers, you name it, it's covered in this association. Just wanted all to know that there is a place out there to belong to a bbq family without limiting yourselves to a sanctioning body. Hope you'll all consider it, I've benefited tremendously from being a part of their board and as a business member. Unlike a lot of organizations, we're expected to be on both the receiving and giving end as members and it seems to make our world go round. More explanation in my article, hope you'll all read it.

Did you guys just start up or something? Your forum is as dead as a door knob.

[bbqpitstop]

Well Eric I hope you got to read the article...it seemed silly to post the whole thing here.....Haltech.....a forum was posted to the site with good intentions but we are also very aware of the numerous blogs and forums that exist and have grown over the years. It just never took off. What we truly hope is that the brethren forum will post as a member as will other forums so that bbq enthusiast that are members of NBBQA can find YOU. It also is an association that can help those wanting choices in sanctioning bodies, different styles of contest organizers etc. The whole idea of the National Organization is to provide the diversity so often lacking at more focused or more competitive bbq entities. Nowhere else will you see smoker manufacturers side by side showing off their smokers or sauce manufacturers sharing information on how to improve distribution efficiency, lower weight bottling materials, and the like.......it's definitely the place to join if you want to be part of the only organization that has as it's sole goal to be the clearinghouse of bbq no matter what your other affiliations are. I hope this makes sense, it's late, I'm in the dark typing...lol...any questions please don't hesitate to ask.