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2Fat
05-09-2010, 10:31 AM
interesting distribution of prizes

Smokin' Joe
05-09-2010, 11:04 AM
Please tell me that is not what I think it is....Dells contest?

Smokin' Joe
05-09-2010, 11:19 AM
Ok, I found it now on the website...it is the dells contest again:rolleyes:

Do I have this right....2/3 of the KCBS guaranteed $10,000 payout is ribbons, trophy's, and gift certificates? Can they even do that? Tanger is the ripoff mall deal, but what the heck is BP OC?:confused:

Oh and by the way, I will have the wife and daughter along so I will buy all the Tanger gift certicates @ $.25 on the dollar:twisted:

Jorge
05-09-2010, 11:41 AM
Tanger is the ripoff mall deal, but what the heck is BP OC?:confused:



Maybe a BP Gift Card?:becky:

2Fat
05-09-2010, 11:46 AM
Ok, I found it now on the website...it is the dells contest again:rolleyes:

but what the heck is BP OC?:confused:

Oh and by the way, I will have the wife and daughter along so I will buy all the Tanger gift certicates @ $.25 on the dollar:twisted:

Thinking BP is Buffalo Phils--bar/restaurant where it is located and now will raise my offer on the gift certificates to $.275 on the dollar but am reaching my max<bfg>

Ford
05-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Ok, I found it now on the website...it is the dells contest again:rolleyes:

Do I have this right....2/3 of the KCBS guaranteed $10,000 payout is ribbons, trophy's, and gift certificates? Can they even do that? Tanger is the ripoff mall deal, but what the heck is BP OC?:confused:

Oh and by the way, I will have the wife and daughter along so I will buy all the Tanger gift certicates @ $.25 on the dollar:twisted:
The KCBS website has no payout listed. There are a number of contests listed that way. So the KCBS is not making a guarantee. Now if you find an ad in the bullsheet that specifically says $10,000 in cash prizes then you can ask the KCBS to make them honor that. But without an ad then they can do what they want in prize money so long as it totals what was originally advertised and a cook has very little recourse.

If I was going to the contest I'd have an email to all BOD mdmbers out already. Plus I'd phone the KCBS office to complain.

I'm glad now I decided not to go. Anybody that wants to skip the contest can come to Carol's wake instead.

Smokin' Joe
05-09-2010, 12:15 PM
Thanks for the info Ford...here is what is on the website, and the only info available before signup

Over $10,000 in cash prizes will be awarded at the 2010 Dells BBQ Bash. Award Ceremony will be on Saturday at 5pm in the Main Tent.

Perhaps it is cash and its just coming from those sources or something? I doesn't say gift cert's I just made that assumption. I will email Tanya

2Fat
05-09-2010, 12:34 PM
]Perhaps it is cash and its just coming from those sources or something? I doesn't say gift cert's I just made that assumption. I will email Tanya[/SIZE][/FONT]

We all made the same assumption--and for us it really doesn't matter much as it is only about 50miles from home---and wasn't there something about free beer anyway?<lol>

mjl
05-09-2010, 02:07 PM
The website does indeed say $10,000 in cash prizes....but if you go back and look at your application, it says $10,000 in cash & prizes. How important is the distinction? I don't know, but it doesn't make me very happy. Never in a million years did I think we would be potentially competing for BP and Tanger gift cards.

ML

Smokin' Joe
05-09-2010, 03:01 PM
If this is indeed the case, compounded with the other issues, they just as well cancel this thing right now for 2011

Trainwreck
05-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Not a chance in hell I will be going back next year. I guess the organizers did NO research before deciding to do this thing. I am seriously contemplating putting a big sign in front of my spot encouraging people to boycott Buffalo Phils.

Scottie
05-09-2010, 04:52 PM
Well I guess the good news is Mike Lake will be right there. But with the stuff he's been dealing with, I sure wouldn't say sh!t to him and he is a good friend.....

Sorry for you folks. I guess I am real happy I am going to the GAB now. Personally, I'd be asking for my money back.

Coz
05-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Well I guess the good news is Mike Lake will be right there. But with the stuff he's been dealing with, I sure wouldn't say sh!t to him and he is a good friend.....

Sorry for you folks. I guess I am real happy I am going to the GAB now. Personally, I'd be asking for my money back.

Scottie, one of the other teams has asked for their money back for what I would consider a legitimate reason and was denied.

Ron_L
05-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Maybe this is normal, but just not disclosed, but I don't recall seeing the "value" of the trophies and ribbons included in the payout amounts.

Joe, let us know what you hear from Tanya. Between keeping key information about the competition hidden until after our money had been received, and now the possible misrepresentation of the prize money (the web site does say $10,000 in cash. I have a screen cap of it in case they try to change it), I am strongly considering demanding a refund. If more than half of the payout turns out to be Tangier and Buffalo Phil's certificates they do me no good. The chance of me being up there again to use them are slim and none.

Also, they are counting People's Choice, Dessert and Chili in the total payout? Is that normal?

SirPorkaLot
05-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Wow that is disturbing.
KCBS needs to get a handle on this sort of thing right away or "KCBS Sanctioned" will lose a lot of it's luster.

Alexa RnQ
05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
Maybe this is normal, but just not disclosed, but I don't recall seeing the "value" of the trophies and ribbons included in the payout amounts.
...
Also, they are counting People's Choice, Dessert and Chili in the total payout? Is that normal?

It's been done, but it's poor practice.

Lesson learned the hard way -- there is absolutely no reason why cooks shouldn't ask for and receive the payout schedule before entry deadlines, and not settle for BS waffling like "total cash and prizes". If an organizer can't or won't do that, it tells you something right there.

The practice won't stop until enough cooks ask the hard questions prior to forking over entry fees, and decline to enter contests that use misleading BS to inflate their true payouts.

Call Karen Walker at the KCBS office. Prize fund totals are generally posted to the KCBS website when they receive the 90-day prize guarantee letter required by the sanctioning agreement. If they've got it and it just hasn't been posted, she can tell you exactly what it states. If that letter's not submitted, all entered teams should email the entire KCBS board ASAFP, as they have a meeting this Wednesday.

Smokin' Joe
05-09-2010, 09:05 PM
Email went off this afternoon...I assume I will get a reply in the morning, I will post it as soon as I get it.

Bud's BBQ
05-09-2010, 09:14 PM
It's been done, but it's poor practice.

Lesson learned the hard way -- there is absolutely no reason why cooks shouldn't ask for and receive the payout schedule before entry deadlines, and not settle for BS waffling like "total cash and prizes". If an organizer can't or won't do that, it tells you something right there.

The practice won't stop until enough cooks ask the hard questions prior to forking over entry fees, and decline to enter contests that use misleading BS to inflate their true payouts.

Call Karen Walker at the KCBS office. Prize fund totals are generally posted to the KCBS website when they receive the 90-day prize guarantee letter required by the sanctioning agreement. If they've got it and it just hasn't been posted, she can tell you exactly what it states. If that letter's not submitted, all entered teams should email the entire KCBS board ASAFP, as they have a meeting this Wednesday.

Apparently there are 62 teams signed up for this fraud. We all need to write emails to the board of directors about this. They posted on their web site months ago: "10,000 in cash prizes" and only four days ago, they change their web site to show an un-readible chart of the "cash/prizes" whereby they have two thirds of the so called cash prize in gift certificates to a discount mall and their local restaurant. This is out right fraud. Those of us who signed up are fools if we take this. Send an email today to KCBS board of directors!!
What, do we need a doctorate in Law to sign up for events and not get screwed??

Send an emal now........a really hacked off Smokin' Scotsmen......

walt

Alexa RnQ
05-09-2010, 09:37 PM
62 teams? At how much per entry fee? $225?
Which would equal $13,950 -- all in cash.
Just stating the painfully obvious.

Ford
05-09-2010, 09:49 PM
Those of us who signed up are fools if we take this. Send an email today to KCBS board of directors!!
What, do we need a doctorate in Law to sign up for events and not get screwed??

Send an emal now........a really hacked off Smokin' Scotsmen......

walt
I'd probably cut my losses. Entry is only $225. I'm looking at 75 gallons of diesel so that's an additional $225. 1 nite in hotel - $75. Meat $250. Food to eat $50. So entry is only a little over 25% of cost. Stay home and if 20 or 30 did then they'd have egg all over their face and people coming out would say where are all the teams they advertised. Also the community would lose revenue and all those merchants would complain too.

Hopefully some local team that knows these people will try to talk with them. This sounds worse than the overflowing toilets at GR a number of years ago and it nearly killed that contest.

Ron_L
05-09-2010, 10:12 PM
62 teams? At how much per entry fee? $225?
Which would equal $13,950 -- all in cash.
Just stating the painfully obvious.

Not to mention that some of those teams paid after the 3/31 deadline and paid and extra $25 AND the dessert and chili competitions (whose payout is included in the $10,000) carry an extra fee of $25 and $50 respectively.

Ford
05-10-2010, 05:24 AM
Here's the info on the Sanctioning packet. Any contest (within 90 days)currently on the KCBS website without a payout may not be in complkiance or the KCBS just hasn't updated the info. Either way the Office should be doing something. My highlights in red.

5. Guarantee and pay prize monies as published/advertised to at least 5 places plus a Reserve Grand Champion and Grand Champion. This amount may not be reduced after sanctioning and advertising. KCBS will only post total cash award amount and will not include non-monetary amounts. There are times when circumstances make it impossible to comply, such as the loss of a sponsor. Therefore it is the policy of KCBS that any time prior to 90 days from the date of the contest, an organizer may apply to the Board of KCBS asking for a modification of the cash prize money, upon the following terms:
a. The organizer must in writing, state the cause for the modification, and the Board must find good cause, such as loss of a sponsor, in order to grant the request.
b. That all registered teams must be notified in writing (USPS) and by e-mail of the change and have an opportunity for a full refund, any time prior to 15 days before the contest date.
c. That immediately upon approval by KCBS all applications, advertising and websites of the contest, shall in a bold and conspicuous manner advertise the change and reduction in cash prize money.

21. It is further understood that any violation of the above conditions contained in this agreement, will at the sole option of KCBS cause this agreement to be null and void. In that event, KCBS will withdraw sanctioning and will not provide services to the Organizer. The Organizer will forfeit all monies and fees previously paid to KCBS.

End of quote.

As cooks we have an obligation to protect ourselves. Go to the KCBS website and make sure that contests within 90 days that you are going to, show a prize payout. If not write the KCBS office. I'd think less than 60 days you might want to copy the whole BOD.

It will be interesting to see what the BOD does on this. Clearly they are no in compliance and clearly they did change their advertised cash payout to cash and prizes. IMHO the BOD should say pay $10,000 cash or the KCBS will pull sanctioning. But they could say offer refunds to all and apply for a new prize guarantee. Of course that can only happen if the organizer is reading the rules and is attending the BOD meeting.

Now if the KCBS pulls sanctioning then will you still go?

Here's a link to the full document - remember you need to be signed in as a member of the KCBS. http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/KCBS%202010%20Contest%20Application.pdf

Bud's BBQ
05-10-2010, 06:32 AM
Thanks Ford for you research.
Below is the email I've sent to the KCBS board of directors. Urge all involved to send a similar email.

To: Mike Lake" <mlake@kcbs.us <mlake@kcbs.us>>; "Carol Whitebook" <cwhitebook@kcbs.us <cwhitebook@kcbs.us>>; "Don Harwell" <dharwell@kcbs.us <dharwell@kcbs.us>>; "MIike BudiAI(KCBS Finance)" <mbudai@kcbs.us <mbudai@kcbs.us>>; "Merl Whitebook" <mwhitebook@kcbs.us <mwhitebook@kcbs.us>>; "Linda Mullane" <lmullane@kcbs.us <lmullane@kcbs.us>>; "Paul Kirk" <pkirk@kcbs.us <pkirk@kcbs.us>>; "Gene Goycochea" <ggoycochea@kcbs.us <ggoycochea@kcbs.us>>; "Wayne Lohman" <wlohman@kcbs.us <wlohman@kcbs.us>>; "Ed Roith" <eroith@kcbs.us <eroith@kcbs.us>>; "Tana Shupe" <tshupe@kcbs.us <tshupe@kcbs.us>>; "Carolyn Wells" <carolyn@kcbs.us <carolyn@kcbs.us>>; "Karen Walker" <kwalker@kcbs.us <kwalker@kcbs.us>>;

Subjuct: Wisconsin Dell's BBQ Bash May 21-22, 2010

Dear Board of Directors,

Respectfully want to bring to your attention the misleading actions of the organizers of an upcoming contest: Dell’s BBQ Bash. This competition is slated for May 21-22, 2010 in Wisconsin. Their web site has been up for many months and features “$10,000 in cash prizes”. Over 60 teams signed up and paid their $225 entry fee. Only after applications were mailed in and checks cashed, did an onerous list of rules get distributed; i.e., must buy any adult beverages from the local sponsor; no dogs; can’t leave until after 7PM Saturday “at the earliest”. If that weren’t bad enough, we discover a change on their web site only a few days ago. They now list a barely readable chart of “Cash/Prizes”. Low and behold, the $10,000 cash prizes turns out to be two thirds gift certificates to a local restaurant and outlet mall. Even the alleged cost of the trophies (over $100 each) is included in the prize value. (please see attachment of their newly posted "cash / prizes").

This is beyond deception – this is outright fraud.

Please take action with the Dell’s organizers to force them to either pay the “$10,000 cash prizes” as they have advertized on their web site or force them to refund application fees. Or, at the very least, pull sanctioning and take legal action. I quote from the KCBS sanctioning packet:

5. Guarantee and pay prize monies as published/advertised to at least 5 places plus a Reserve Grand Champion and Grand Champion. This amount may not be reduced after sanctioning and advertising. KCBS will only post total cash award amount and will not include non-monetary amounts. There are times when circumstances make it impossible to comply, such as the loss of a sponsor. Therefore it is the policy of KCBS that any time prior to 90 days from the date of the contest, an organizer may apply to the Board of KCBS asking for a modification of the cash prize money, upon the following terms:
a. The organizer must in writing, state the cause for the modification, and the Board must find good cause, such as loss of a sponsor, in order to grant the request.
b. That all registered teams must be notified in writing (USPS) and by e-mail of the change and have an opportunity for a full refund, any time prior to 15 days before the contest date.
c. That immediately upon approval by KCBS all applications, advertising and websites of the contest, shall in a bold and conspicuous manner advertise the change and reduction in cash prize money.


21. It is further understood that any violation of the above conditions contained in this agreement, will at the sole option of KCBS cause this agreement to be null and void. In that event, KCBS will withdraw sanctioning and will not provide services to the Organizer. The Organizer will forfeit all monies and fees previously paid to KCBS.



We compete in over 20 KCBS sanctioned events every year. We take confidence that these KCBS events are run in an honest and proper manner. Please don’t let this fraud go unattended.

Thank you in advance for attending to this matter.

Resectfully,

Walter and Theresa Munroe
Smokin’ Scotsmen BBQ
KCBS members

Ron_L
05-10-2010, 07:33 AM
Nice job, Walt. I think an important thing to note is that the Gift Certificate to the local restaurant is actually to the organizer's own restaurant. Their cost in providing this is significantly less than the equivalent cash value, plus if the certificates are actually used they can show that as revenue for their business.

Stoke&Smoke
05-10-2010, 07:54 AM
Very happy that we opted out of this one. What a screw job!:mad2:
Nice research job Ford, and great letter Walt! If it weren't a different state, I might consider filing a small claims complaint against the organizer, as the advertising for this was CLEARLY a blatant misrepresentation.

Talk about small print, that payout schedule requires a microscope to read!

Hopefully, there will be some sort of settlement to those who were misled, and we'll see some of you in Westmont the next week

Smokin' Joe
05-10-2010, 08:14 AM
Here is the reply I got from Tanya...not good...

Good Morning! Yes, some of the payout is in prize money (gift certificates) from our sponsors.

Thanks,
Tanya

Bud's BBQ
05-10-2010, 08:43 AM
Nice job, Walt. I think an important thing to note is that the Gift Certificate to the local restaurant is actually to the organizer's own restaurant. Their cost in providing this is significantly less than the equivalent cash value, plus if the certificates are actually used they can show that as revenue for their business.


Good catch, Ron. For those of you who might be writing to the KCBS board of directors, pointing out that one of the 'gift certificates' is actually from the organizer's own restaurant adds further insult to injury.

Brew-B-Q
05-10-2010, 08:46 AM
Man, that is BS. Gift certificates to their restaurant. Wow.

I am going to Steeleville this weekend, and some of their payout is for ancillary categories such as anything but, best shot, dessert. I don't like that, but I will say they were upfront about it and they don't charge extra to compete in those categories. Still, I'd prefer that if they say $10k in cash, that is all for the KCBS categories.

But this Dells contest is looking like a disaster. Glad I have a conflict. I hope you guys can get them to pay up or get a refund.

ique
05-10-2010, 08:50 AM
Thanks Ford for you research.
Below is the email I've sent to the KCBS board of directors. Urge all involved to send a similar email.

Well done Walt. Hope it works out for everyone signed up for this.

Smokin' Joe
05-10-2010, 10:43 AM
I just sent an email to the KCBS Board and Office, I urge all entered teams to do the same. Thanks Walt for sharing, I just copied your letter for reference and said I support it/asked them to act. Hope to at least get a reply...

Peteg
05-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Well I just sent my email to the board. Hopefully we'll get some action on this, it just isn't right.

Merl
05-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Well I just sent my email to the board. Hopefully we'll get some action on this, it just isn't right.

Four minutes for some action, aint bad.
Merl

Merl
05-10-2010, 12:22 PM
Dear KCBS members and cooks,

I am pleased to say that the error which occurred concerning the Wisconsin Dells BBQ Bash has been corrected and the Organizer working with KCBS has resolved the issue.

Due to a misunderstanding and error in communication, the Organizer posted on its web site that the Wisconsin Dells contest would have over $10,000.00 in cash prizes awarded.

All of the correspondence with teams and with KCBS indicated that this sum was a combination of cash prize money and other gifts and awards.

Due to the error in communication, the Wisconsin Dells BBQ Bash and its organizers have guaranteed the payment of Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00) in cash prize money to be awarded at the contest.

KCBS recognizes the importance of guarantied prize money to the competitors and appreciates the efforts of the Wisconsin Dells BBQ Bash to provide for the participants. KCBS wishes to extend the best of luck to all the competitors.

The Organizer wishes to apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

KCBS is confident this will be another great Wisconsin Contest as it has been in the past and is proud to sanction this event.

Merl Whitebook
Secretary,
KCBS Board of Directors.

Note to moderator: This is posted above as well. Due to the time sensitive nature, could leave the double post for 24 hours. Thank you.
Merl

Jorge
05-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Note to moderator: This is posted above as well. Due to the time sensitive nature, could leave the double post for 24 hours. Thank you.
Merl

Mod Note: As this issue is important to members, there is absolutely no problem with that. Thanks Merl.

Peteg
05-10-2010, 12:29 PM
Four minutes for some action, aint bad.
Merl

I'll say! Thanks for your help with this Merl. Pete

Scottie
05-10-2010, 12:39 PM
So will you guys still get the gift certificates though? :twisted:

Merl
05-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I'll say! Thanks for your help with this Merl. Pete

Pete,
It is the organization. A great professional staff at KCBS and a Board who looks out to insure fairness for all.

Now next time someone asks why a member of KCBS this is one more example.

Thank you.
Merl

Scottie
05-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Pete,
It is the organization. A great professional staff at KCBS and a Board who looks out to insure fairness for all.

Now next time someone asks why a member of KCBS this is one more example.

Thank you.
Merl


What about the big KCBS announcement for today? My understanding is the BOD doesn't know what it is either? According to a post on another Forum... Is it driving you crazy as well not knowing like it is with me? :doh:

Bud's BBQ
05-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Huge thanks for the prompt action by Merl and the Board of Directors. I speak for many bbq teams who greatly appreciate the actions taken.

Walt and Theresa

2Fat
05-10-2010, 01:00 PM
Huge thanks for the prompt action by Merl and the Board of Directors. I speak for many bbq teams who greatly appreciate the actions taken.

Walt and Theresa

Big thanks to the KCBS from the middle of Wisconsin---and to Coz for bringing this to my attention!!

Stoke&Smoke
05-10-2010, 01:06 PM
Should anybody wonder about whether it's worth being a KCBS member, I would say this shows it definitely is :clap2:

Hope this helps salvage the weekend for the 60 teams slated to go! I have a feeling there may be lingering bad feelings on this one

Divemaster
05-10-2010, 01:25 PM
First of all...

Thank you Merl and the rest of the KCBS BOD & Staff!

Secondly, yes, we are going to be there this year but mountains are going to have to move to get me to return next year.

Scottie
05-10-2010, 01:36 PM
Should anybody wonder about whether it's worth being a KCBS member, I would say this shows it definitely is :clap2:

Hope this helps salvage the weekend for the 60 teams slated to go! I have a feeling there may be lingering bad feelings on this one



This is one problem of not making the cooks in a contest be a KCBS member. We pay for this and the non-members get to benefit from the actions of our BOD...

Glad this is working out for everyone.

Merl
05-10-2010, 01:44 PM
Merl speaking for Merl!

OK now how many of you are willing to pony up to the plate when things go south.

I will be disappointed with any Brethren who does not go to this contest with their hand outstretched to thank the organizer and Mike Lake and make the following statement:

Thank you for all you did this year. I would love to help you improve this contest next year and for future years...... Here are some ideas, and how can I help?

Isn't that what the "spirit of the Brethren" is about?

Off the soap box.
Merl

Smokin' Joe
05-10-2010, 01:59 PM
Great news! Thanks to everyone involved with the process and resolution. My plan is to do just as Merl mentioned....obviously some things haven't gone well but I will say they have attempted to make resolution/changes when asked. I will chalk it all up to confusion for a first year event for now

DawgPhan
05-10-2010, 02:43 PM
nothing like thanking someone for fixing the problem they created...

Divemaster
05-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Merl,

I'll give them a shot this year, but again, things are going to have to go VERY smothly if they expect to see me next year. I'll fill out the forms, and answer any of their questions, but after what we went through this year and the comp is still two weeks away, I just don't know. I'll try an keep an open mind...

bbqpitstop
05-10-2010, 03:37 PM
awesome to be a member of KCBS....but I'll refer to this thread the next time someone chastises and criticizes those of us that don't go to comps strictly for the "fun of it" . I also like to participate in non sanctioned events, fundraiser, vending and promotional opportunities.....it's nice to know there's at least a "possibility" of recouping some costs and getting some cash I would say, and it makes it even more fun and is definitely some icing on the cake. It sure doesn't mean we don't enjoy the camraderie or the party aspect of it all. I do understand those that go to only sanctioned comps and the promise of a level and fair playing field for all. Thanks KCBS for all your work in that area.

Theresa, I read before that there was suggestions for higher payouts to KCBS members vs. competitors enjoying the same benefits that aren't members, did anything ever come of that ? Anyone here have any solutions or suggestions other than that ? I know as a board member at NBBQA some competitors might not be aware that they can join KCBS, you'd be surprised how many think it's just a sanctioning org, and not something they can be a member of......are we all getting a membership application in our goody bags at every comp ? I'm always shocked when I talk with people about the national association, how many don't even know it exists.

PimpSmoke
05-10-2010, 08:27 PM
I'm glad this was given attention, but.

It's gonna be a hard sell to get teams next year.

Haltech
05-10-2010, 08:45 PM
Is this the first event to pull something like this? Im surprised KCBS needed forum members to do their jobs for them to bring this up.

HoDeDo
05-10-2010, 09:18 PM
Is this the first event to pull something like this? Im surprised KCBS needed forum members to do their jobs for them to bring this up.

Not sure I get this... How would the board know? The Dells folks could have just not posted anything until the awards... imagine how it would feel if you got that info at awards... board couldnt do anything then til after the fact either...

I think this went exactly as it should have. I concerned member (Walt) wrote the board, they assessed the situation, and reacted appropriately, and quickly - and now things are as they should be.

I was thinking about coming to this event until we found out GAB was on top of it... so some local gift certs would have really made me angry. lol

Great job for all those that work to get this resolved.

Haltech
05-10-2010, 09:31 PM
Not sure I get this... How would the board know? The Dells folks could have just not posted anything until the awards... imagine how it would feel if you got that info at awards... board couldnt do anything then til after the fact either...

I think this went exactly as it should have. I concerned member (Walt) wrote the board, they assessed the situation, and reacted appropriately, and quickly - and now things are as they should be.

I was thinking about coming to this event until we found out GAB was on top of it... so some local gift certs would have really made me angry. lol

Great job for all those that work to get this resolved.

Which is EXACTLY my point. There is no peer check system at place at KCBS to keep this from happening. Meaning, we as KCBS members are doing their job for them, which for a membership service, i find disturbing. Had it not been for Walt, this would of gone through unnoticed.

Ford
05-10-2010, 09:52 PM
Not sure I get this... How would the board know? The Dells folks could have just not posted anything until the awards... imagine how it would feel if you got that info at awards... board couldnt do anything then til after the fact either...

I think this went exactly as it should have. I concerned member (Walt) wrote the board, they assessed the situation, and reacted appropriately, and quickly - and now things are as they should be.

I was thinking about coming to this event until we found out GAB was on top of it... so some local gift certs would have really made me angry. lol

Great job for all those that work to get this resolved.
There are supposed to be checks in place so this can't happen. Something fell thru the cracks. It's my understanding that if there is not a prize guarantee at 30 days then the BOD should be notified and they should revoke sanctioning unless there's a request for a reduced cash payout with all the conditions listed in the sanctioning packet.

Divemaster
05-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Not sure I get this... How would the board know? The Dells folks could have just not posted anything until the awards... imagine how it would feel if you got that info at awards... board couldnt do anything then til after the fact either...

I think this went exactly as it should have. I concerned member (Walt) wrote the board, they assessed the situation, and reacted appropriately, and quickly - and now things are as they should be.

I was thinking about coming to this event until we found out GAB was on top of it... so some local gift certs would have really made me angry. lol

Great job for all those that work to get this resolved.

Which is EXACTLY my point. There is no peer check system at place at KCBS to keep this from happening. Meaning, we as KCBS members are doing their job for them, which for a membership service, i find disturbing. Had it not been for Walt, this would of gone through unnoticed.
I've belonged to a number of 'Membership Organizations' of the years as well as being on the BOD for a couple of them.

To be honest, the BOD cannot see every thing that goes on. Hell, we as competitors didn't know about it until Coz discovered the schedule. Are you really expecting the Board to check for changes to every web site? What about the rules that were sent out via USPS? How is the Board expected to know this?

It's up to the membership to bring these things up to KCBS and the BOD. For years we've been saying it's our organization. Well if you want to claim ownership, you have to take responsibility, and that's what happened here.

To all involved, thank you for pointing this out, thank you for bringing it up to the BOD & KCBS staff, and thank you for correcting the issues.

Vince RnQ
05-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Not doing anything until 30 days prior to a contest is rediculous. The sanctioning package requires that the prize fund guarantee letter be filed at the 90 day mark and that is what should be enforced. Teams can help make this happen by calling the KCBS office and checking to see if this paperwork has been filed and by directly asking contest organizers if they have complied with the requirements of the sanctioning package.

I know it sounds hokey but the power really does reside with the people if the people would only mobilize and take action.

tonto1117
05-12-2010, 08:21 AM
Theresa, I read before that there was suggestions for higher payouts to KCBS members vs. competitors enjoying the same benefits that aren't members, did anything ever come of that ? Anyone here have any solutions or suggestions other than that ? I know as a board member at NBBQA some competitors might not be aware that they can join KCBS, you'd be surprised how many think it's just a sanctioning org, and not something they can be a member of......are we all getting a membership application in our goody bags at every comp ? I'm always shocked when I talk with people about the national association, how many don't even know it exists.

Not to knowledge Shelly. As far as suggestions/solutions I think VQ, Ford and some others in this thead have suggested some very tangible answers.

FatBoyz
05-12-2010, 12:01 PM
HOLY crap !!!!! We all learn from things that happen to us... I think the KCBS learned something ... But as a friend of mine said... I hope all the compeditors learned something to! I think the time for AzzPacking is over. We as people set our oun attitudes. So if we go to a comp being pissed off we are going to reflecte that. you know the old saying where your azz is your mind will fallow... You have all spent good money on this... so go enjoy it! what is done is done. Dont let that ruen your weekend. YOu all get to see friends you have not see in a while. thats just my 2 Cents thanks ya'll

G$
05-12-2010, 12:22 PM
Not doing anything until 30 days prior to a contest is rediculous. The sanctioning package requires that the prize fund guarantee letter be filed at the 90 day mark and that is what should be enforced. Teams can help make this happen by calling the KCBS office and checking to see if this paperwork has been filed and by directly asking contest organizers if they have complied with the requirements of the sanctioning package.

I know it sounds hokey but the power really does reside with the people if the people would only mobilize and take action.

Off the wall idea:

In addition, as part of it's sanctioning requirements, KCBS could require contests to add the verbiage "PRIZE POOL IS NOT GUARANTEED" to ANY communications (email, web, entry forms) that a sanctioned but not 'yet' guaranteed contest sends to cooks and the public. That would incent every contests to meet the 90 day 'requirement'.

Divemaster
05-12-2010, 12:39 PM
HOLY crap !!!!! We all learn from things that happen to us... I think the KCBS learned something ... But as a friend of mine said... I hope all the compeditors learned something to! I think the time for AzzPacking is over. We as people set our oun attitudes. So if we go to a comp being pissed off we are going to reflecte that. you know the old saying where your azz is your mind will fallow... You have all spent good money on this... so go enjoy it! what is done is done. Dont let that ruen your weekend. YOu all get to see friends you have not see in a while. thats just my 2 Cents thanks ya'll
Who are you and what have you done with my friend???:confused: