PDA

View Full Version : 3-1-1 method for rib fests? ( Bite mark )


Derek
05-09-2010, 07:52 AM
Ok I know how to use the 3 - 1 - 1 method now thanks to many of you and Bubba, But here's my question?

When I do my first rib fest do I want to do 3 then half hour, then half hour again for the sauce & glaze?

HandsomeSwede
05-09-2010, 11:53 AM
Your question is a tough one to answer, thus I think the lack of responses. I will give you the same advice I have given to some other first year competitors which is advice I was given at a comp last year, my first year competing.

For the backyard you can pretty go with a set time and get good ribs for eating, these are much different than good ribs for competing. Competition is all about adjustments while cooking. The best cook time for your ribs will vary depending on weight of the rib, cooker temps, fat content, etc.

A lot of times I find an hour in the foil is too much for me, my best finish in ribs last year came in Troy when I didn't foil at all. That said I still plan on foil for comps, that day I just didn't need it. At Troy my site was right next to BBQ Brethren, our friendly webhost, who was kind enough to share some info. They said they don't ever foil unless they need to make up time. That day they did foil and I believe grabbed the Reserve GC.

Some day your ribs might be a little tight and need over an hour in foil. Starting to see a pattern? I tried to ask the same question last year: "What is the exact time I need to cook my ribs for in order to get all 9s on tenderness?" There is no answer

Just for reference my usual formal goes along the lines of 3-3/12, 45, 1.

Bbq Bubba
05-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Practice.

LOTS of practice.

HandsomeSwede
05-09-2010, 02:09 PM
Practice.

LOTS of practice.


That too.

Derek
05-09-2010, 03:55 PM
As everyone told me and Jerry I'll practice., practice, practice until I achieve perfection on the ribs :)

nthole
05-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Phil said he didn't foil?

hmmm...he's either lyin' or losin' then.

:twisted:

Derek, it just isn't about the time. Those are great times to start with, the 3-1-1 method, but reality is the meat is done when it's done. The trick is how to get it done at the right time. What you really have to learn is how to tell when the meat is GETTING NEAR DONE, because that's when you need to get it off the cooker and into your holding container so that it doesn't cross that tiny little line that separates undercooked and overcooked. And it truly is so tiny.

So when you're practicing START thinking about looking at them, not just to know that they are perfectly done, but then what did they look like 35 - 40 min ago, which is what they will easily do holding in a cooler for 1 - 2 hours.

HandsomeSwede
05-09-2010, 08:45 PM
Now I feel lied to

Derek
05-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Phil said he didn't foil?

hmmm...he's either lyin' or losin' then.

:twisted:

Derek, it just isn't about the time. Those are great times to start with, the 3-1-1 method, but reality is the meat is done when it's done. The trick is how to get it done at the right time. What you really have to learn is how to tell when the meat is GETTING NEAR DONE, because that's when you need to get it off the cooker and into your holding container so that it doesn't cross that tiny little line that separates undercooked and overcooked. And it truly is so tiny.

So when you're practicing START thinking about looking at them, not just to know that they are perfectly done, but then what did they look like 35 - 40 min ago, which is what they will easily do holding in a cooler for 1 - 2 hours.Thank you for the advice man.

I've started looking at them on my last attempt..

Not the ribs I've just posted, but the ribs I've done before I got my new weber grill.

BBQchef33
05-09-2010, 09:01 PM
Phil said he didn't foil?

hmmm...he's either lyin' or losin' then.

:twisted:



Guess again numbnut. :boxing:

I will NOT foil unless I have to...and i RARELY, if ever foil at home. Thats only to hold. (or im making 'fall off the bone" for the neighbors). But i prefer to go from the pit to the plate unfoiled. At home, i dont have a 10 minute bullseye to hit, and i hate soggy ribs.

When competing, if I feel i need to accelerate tenderizing a little bit, i will foil, then remove from the foil(preferably with at least an hour left) and return to pit unfoiled to tighten up and reset the bark.




BTW, 3-2-1 is a guideline for spares to use, until you learn to judge by sight and feel, and it will wrech a rack of babybacks. Racks vary from rack to rack. Bend tests, pig sweat, even using a toothpick or probe to feel for tenderness will avoid your ribs from overcooking in foil when you cant see them.






A lot of times I find an hour in the foil is too much for me, my best finish in ribs last year came in Troy when I didn't foil at all. That said I still plan on foil for comps, that day I just didn't need it. At Troy my site was right next to BBQ Brethren, our friendly webhost, who was kind enough to share some info. They said they don't ever foil unless they need to make up time. That day they did foil and I believe grabbed the Reserve GC.

Some day your ribs might be a little tight and need over an hour in foil. Starting to see a pattern? I tried to ask the same question last year: "What is the exact time I need to cook my ribs for in order to get all 9s on tenderness?" There is no answer




And I STILL HOLD TO THAT CONCEPT. :thumb:

nthole
05-09-2010, 09:30 PM
Is it bad to pick a fight with THE Poohbab?!?! :grin:

So, uh, then, you don't foil them to hold them 'eh. HEHEHEHE

You compete way more than me, so I'll yield. I've never come close to having them done near enought to time where I'm not foiling to hold 'em.

BBQchef33
05-10-2010, 12:53 AM
Is it bad to pick a fight with THE Poohbab?!?! :grin:

So, uh, then, you don't foil them to hold them 'eh. HEHEHEHE

You compete way more than me, so I'll yield. I've never come close to having them done near enough to time where I'm not foiling to hold 'em.

Holding? welllll...........:doh:


I wasnt talking about holding.. only the cooking process.


We try not have to hold the ribs at a contest. I have ruined to many slabs while they were done early and sat in the cambro. In fact, we are usually scrambling trying to get them set in time for 1230 and they are still in the pit(unfoiled). They go in around 7(spares).

But yes, Uf your talking abotu holding too, if they are done early, I WILL foil to hold. Again, i try not to get into that predicament.. im not happy if it happens. If another team mate is doing ribs, he uses an open foil boat in his technique. I dont always do that. it depends I guess.

In troy, it was just Scott and I. We were 2 men down and we were under the gun, so we did foil to speed things up. We also added some peach slices to the foil and did what we called "old school", but it was out of the norm.

Derek
05-10-2010, 07:03 AM
Guess again numbnut. :boxing:

I will NOT foil unless I have to...and i RARELY, if ever foil at home. Thats only to hold. (or im making 'fall off the bone" for the neighbors). But i prefer to go from the pit to the plate unfoiled. At home, i dont have a 10 minute bullseye to hit, and i hate soggy ribs.

When competing, if I feel i need to accelerate tenderizing a little bit, i will foil, then remove from the foil(preferably with at least an hour left) and return to pit unfoiled to tighten up and reset the bark.




BTW, 3-2-1 is a guideline for spares to use, until you learn to judge by sight and feel, and it will wrech a rack of babybacks. Racks vary from rack to rack. Bend tests, pig sweat, even using a toothpick or probe to feel for tenderness will avoid your ribs from overcooking in foil when you cant see them.







And I STILL HOLD TO THAT CONCEPT. :thumb:

Is it bad to pick a fight with THE Poohbab?!?! :grin:

So, uh, then, you don't foil them to hold them 'eh. HEHEHEHE

You compete way more than me, so I'll yield. I've never come close to having them done near enought to time where I'm not foiling to hold 'em.

Holding? welllll...........:doh:


I wasnt talking about holding.. only the cooking process.


We try not have to hold the ribs at a contest. I have ruined to many slabs while they were done early and sat in the cambro. In fact, we are usually scrambling trying to get them set in time for 1230 and they are still in the pit(unfoiled). They go in around 7(spares).

But yes, Uf your talking abotu holding too, if they are done early, I WILL foil to hold. Again, i try not to get into that predicament.. im not happy if it happens. If another team mate is doing ribs, he uses an open foil boat in his technique. I dont always do that. it depends I guess.

In troy, it was just Scott and I. We were 2 men down and we were under the gun, so we did foil to speed things up. We also added some peach slices to the foil and did what we called "old school", but it was out of the norm.Thank you guys, When do you sauce if you don't foil?

HandsomeSwede
05-10-2010, 07:44 AM
Saucing is done during that last hour. Even if you sauce at the foiling point for comps you will also want to consider some type of finishing sauce/glaze that is applied every 15-20 minutes for the last hour of cook time. I also like to bring my cooker temp closer to 300 degrees during that hour to set the sauce and account for opening the lid multiple times.

Derek
05-10-2010, 07:58 AM
Thank you guys, I'll go ahead and practice this weekend.

Jacked UP BBQ
05-10-2010, 08:13 AM
I never foil at home

Derek
05-10-2010, 08:42 AM
What's the difference between foil and unfoiled ribs?

BBQchef33
05-10-2010, 10:21 AM
i sauce last 45 minutes, multi layers of thinned sauce/glaze. THats why i prefer not to foil, it sets back the glazing process because the meats been steamed.. no bark anymore.

Derek
05-10-2010, 10:44 AM
i sauce last 45 minutes, multi layers of thinned sauce/glaze. THats why i prefer not to foil, it sets back the glazing process because the meats been steamed.. no bark anymore.Thank you BBQchef, Should I try one out of foil? and see what it tastes like while having one for the folks ( fall off the bone good? )

Ron_L
05-10-2010, 10:45 AM
Absolutely! Try anything and everything until you hit on what works best for you, your cooker and your cooking style.

lcbateman3
05-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Just remember, weather plays a key roll in cooking as well. Sunny cloudless day with high humidty is different than a cloudy low humidty rainy day. I've cooking a little of it all now (Rain, 38degrees blowing 40 mph out of the NE to Sunny, 102 Degrees with no breeze and 93% humidty) Cookign times vary so you must be able to check the meat as it cooks and adjust as needed.

What cooks well here in May could be shorter in July....

Smokesman
05-10-2010, 11:10 AM
Holding? welllll...........:doh:


I wasnt talking about holding.. only the cooking process.


We try not have to hold the ribs at a contest. I have ruined to many slabs while they were done early and sat in the cambro. In fact, we are usually scrambling trying to get them set in time for 1230 and they are still in the pit(unfoiled). They go in around 7(spares).

But yes, Uf your talking abotu holding too, if they are done early, I WILL foil to hold. Again, i try not to get into that predicament.. im not happy if it happens. If another team mate is doing ribs, he uses an open foil boat in his technique. I dont always do that. it depends I guess.

In troy, it was just Scott and I. We were 2 men down and we were under the gun, so we did foil to speed things up. We also added some peach slices to the foil and did what we called "old school", but it was out of the norm.

I totally agree with the Poobah! Although it actually comes down to timing and technique. There are many (Slap yo Daddy comes to mind) that foil at some point in their process that do exceedingly well. We have been working on our ribs far longer than we have been competing and used the crutch all the time. But I think its called a crutch for a reason - at some point things "heal" and you get rid of the crutch. Like others, foiling for my team is too big a risk and can overcook an otherwise perfect rib in short order and turn the texture in a meely mess!

If your behind schedule (or have hungry guests) then you may have no alternative but I would crank up the heat before foiling especially if your a 225 cook. Depending on when the ribs go on, we have success anywhere between 225 and 275 grate temp on our WSM's - no higher though. If ahead of schedule or cooking faster we will pull and tent loosely then put back on a 1/2 hour or so out at 275 for glazing.

Reality is though, at some point you have to trust your recipe, technique and smoker and tweak only. Reinventing the wheel every time you hear how the "other guy" does it will get you nowhere. Trust your instincts!

ammoore
05-10-2010, 12:37 PM
[QUOTE=Smokesman; Reinventing the wheel every time you hear how the "other guy" does it will get you nowhere. Trust your instincts![/QUOTE]

Great advise,
Took me 4-5 contests to figure that one out.....