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View Full Version : ***POLL - BBQ Brethren Throwdown - Should entries match the category???


bigabyte
04-14-2010, 11:20 PM
I don't know why I didn't do this first!:doh:

LET THE VOTERS DECIDE!:thumb:

First off, this is not a major point of contention for anyone, but a speedbump that needs to be ridden over, or driven around.

So let's handle this in the spirit of the BBQ Brethren Throwdowns by letting the Brethren decide how to handle this.

The issue at hand is whether to allow entries that do not match the current category into the Voting Thread for Throwdowns.

For example, if a Chicken Sandwich is entered in a Burger Throwdown, or for an extreme example (Heaven forbid), if Teriyaki Grilled Tofu Lettuce Wraps was entered in a Pork Ribs Throwdown.

Should these entries be disqualified, or should they be allowed in?

Please bear in mind these points of view...
View #1 - After discussing this at some length with others, my concern is not so much these dishes WINNING, but about people entering the Throwdowns simply to get no votes in order to join the Zero's Club. In my opinion that brings down the Throwdowns to where they become a means to get a guaranteed win at another thing that should rightfully be earned.
View #2 - If someone wants to post a picture of something that doesn't match the category in order to get zero votes, that is fine because some voters out there may actually like the dish and vote for it. So they would still have to earn it, and would probably still lose in the Throwdown by not getting enough votes from those who see it does not match the category.

Please take some time and think about it. Don't just vote a knee-jerk reaction to this, give it some real thought.

Here are the voting options...

Add a new rule requiring entries must match the criteria or be DQ'ed. This is really both a rule and a new description of the category. The rule is clear, the entry must match the category or be DQ'ed. The decription would state in the most basic form what criteria must be met in order for a dish to qualify. For example, a Burger Throwdown could have the following description for what qualifies:
The entry must be made using a patty from either ground meat or meat substitute (good luck with that one).

Leave things the fark alone already and let the voters deal with this chit! This is pretty dang self explanatory I think.

High Q
04-14-2010, 11:31 PM
I voted and I appreciate you taking the time to get everybody's input. I would like to add that you might consider not changing the rule until after the Burger throwdown as it seems that the panko chicken burger sandwich thing was a good faith attempt to enter the contest with no intent at derailing the voting or garnering a zero (my opinion only). No matter what you decide to do in the future throwdowns, it seems best to let the burger throwdown simply play out.

Whatever you decide with the burger contest and future throwdowns, I fully support your judgement.

landarc
04-14-2010, 11:31 PM
While I, as one of the people that was an early adopter of the Zero Club concept am a strong believer in the Zero Club, I don't see a need for this to become more complicated than it already is. Too many rules and it isn't fun anymore. I think that is in the Brethren Spirit as well, let us decide what should or should not be a entry.

For those that would purposely enter something to get a '0' to be a part of the Zero Club, come on, a true '0' has to be earned honestly with an inadvertent but sincere attempt to win that for some reason runs into a buzz saw of a winner. I for one, truly thought I deserved at least one vote for each of my entries...how did I farking end up not voting for myself?, I digress... I just think this should be left alone and let's all have some honor in Throwdowns.

landarc
04-14-2010, 11:31 PM
I plan on voting for Bigabyte or Gore, just to make sure one of them does not get a zero...

KnucklHed BBQ
04-14-2010, 11:37 PM
Hmm, it would seem to me that both ways would have the same over all result - the person that submits a non-category matching entry would in 99% of cases not win the TD.

The Zero's club is another matter to be dealt with seperately IMO.

If I'm not mistaken, Gordon is mod of that club, perhaps there should be a change to his rule as to how many Zero's a person would need to gain entry to the club... or that a person would have to demonstrate that their entry was made with the intent of actually gettin TD votes. (To be perfectly honest, I think that there were a few beef rib entries that had such poor looking pics that I have a hard time believing they were trying to win in the first place...)
That could be left to a voting poll too, if a person thinks they have met the criteria for the club, a poll could be cast to see if they are allowed in??

I'm just thinking out my butt here... as usual. :bow:

landarc
04-14-2010, 11:44 PM
I dunno, I think some folks participate to have fun, they know that if RTD or a few of the other guys (CRS strikes again) enter they won't win. It is all in fun and part of participating in one of the group activities on here. I don't think it is all about posting only a great photo. I would hate to see people not posting for fear of having their photos panned, or for getting a '0', I think the Zero Club was designed to make it ok to get a 'ought'

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 12:18 AM
I dunno, I think some folks participate to have fun, they know that if RTD or a few of the other guys (CRS strikes again) enter they won't win. It is all in fun and part of participating in one of the group activities on here. I don't think it is all about posting only a great photo. I would hate to see people not posting for fear of having their photos panned, or for getting a '0', I think the Zero Club was designed to make it ok to get a 'ought'


Sure, and the point of the whole dang thing is really to teach eachother new things or inspire to try and just have fun at the end of it all...

But since the Nadda club has come about, it seems that there has been a few "reaching" for membership... it is a tough thing to moderate since none can know a person's tru intent. Maybe the best thing to do is not mod at all - let it be and unless something gets out of hand, don't worry about it.

As Chris says, let the voters decide!

As my next entry for whatever the next TD is going to be, I'd like to submit this! I will be making a turd sammich using recycled burnt ends and pulled pork. No sauce required. :mod:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/photobastard/Ssammich_450.jpg


Either this thread just got alot better or is destined to die... either way, sorry Chris! :becky:

landarc
04-15-2010, 12:22 AM
Of all the photos you have posted, and there have been some great ones, this one falls far short. Far Far Short.:tsk:

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 12:25 AM
Its icecream!!! Jeez Bob, you think I went and "produced" that thing?? :rolleyes:

landarc
04-15-2010, 12:30 AM
Well, it is Q-talk, so I should have known better. But, it is The Brethren, so it is also possible for anything to happen. You can see my dilemma right?

Alan in Ga
04-15-2010, 12:30 AM
I think that as long as the entry is consistent with the rules it is a true attempt to get votes. Poor picture quality should not automatically throw up red flags on an entry. We have had some people offer us advise on taking better pics to help us because we seemed to have good ideas but bad pics. Thanks to everyone who wanted to help in true bretheren spirit.

SmokinAussie
04-15-2010, 12:34 AM
It's gonna be a draw Chris.... you needed 3 choices.:doh::heh::heh::heh:

Moose
04-15-2010, 01:39 AM
As my next entry for whatever the next TD is going to be, I'd like to submit this! I will be making a turd sammich using recycled burnt ends and pulled pork. No sauce required. :mod:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/photobastard/Ssammich_450.jpg


Either this thread just got alot better or is destined to die... either way, sorry Chris! :becky:

HOLY FARK! :hand:

rolf
04-15-2010, 05:17 AM
Once you gotta follow the criteria, you gotta argue about that.
Burger, Ricks Burger is a Burger in my opinion, remember Eddie Murphy? Wonderbread and peppers and onions sticking out of the meat.The kid doesnt acknowledge it as burger because its not round and McDonalds like. Is the burger the meat alone? Or only with bread, if so, round and with sesame?
Dont we have to much legislation already and I think grown ups that can tell a good pic of a burger when they see one!

Rick's Tropical Delight
04-15-2010, 05:33 AM
remember when i said it will never be the same. it is already not the same and money is not on the line yet. i don't know folks, this entire throwdown thing has evolved into something it was never intended to be and the rules are changing and being made retroactive. in the beginning it was a friendly contest with no prize. then the winners from the beginning were eligible for a calendar page retroactively. now the proceeds for the calendar sales are to be given to future winners and that is something that wasn't known to me when i gave permission for my photos to be used in the calendar. these are my thoughts and feeling and if my thoughts and feeling cause chris to author a thread with a bunch of 'farks' in it, then so be it.

zero club? ridiculous.

p.s. btw, it's been a long time since i even came close to winning so i am no threat.

p.s.s. "should entries match the category?" it's intuitively obvious to even the casual observer...

YES!

southernsmoker
04-15-2010, 06:03 AM
That pic is disgusting and off putting.. :focus: Yes of course the entries should match the catagory...shouldn't have to be a rule..it's a given!!

MOS95B
04-15-2010, 06:06 AM
I had a nice long response typed out explaining my "Yes" vote, then I hit the wrong button and endep up on my home page...

Summary - Q-Talk should be for serious competitors, i.e. - matching the criteria. Show a little respect for the intent of the contest/contestants

Woodpile is for "The new throwdown gave me this crazy, off topic idea..."

No idea how to determine/enforce it, though. no one wants a totalitarian regime here...

jonboy
04-15-2010, 06:17 AM
Maybe we should have 2 categories:
Pro Division: Previous winners of throw down entry
Amateur Division: Beginners,Life Long Zero club members, Back yarders

The Pro status winners might receive another smilie(feather in the cap/winner) designation in their profile to help with easy identification.
or
With a Large Cash payment you could buy into Pro Status...

Well, maybe not...
jon

Chef Jim
04-15-2010, 06:43 AM
I voted to leave things alone. Chris has always said to let the voters decide, so if that's the way it was, then that's the way it should be!

I do think that this is a good discussion because I have wondered if there are some that are reaching out a bit too far. Maybe they will think twice before they submit the next entry.

It is the spirit of the contest, isn't it? Just my .02

Smokey Al Gold
04-15-2010, 07:25 AM
Wow I log on this morning and I was suprised to see all of this come from my chicken burger. I am fine with the dq and I am not bitter with Chris or anyone. I say I just take the dq let's drop all this because we don't need anymore rules or complaining on the matter. I didn't enter the picture to get a zero either and it's honestly the best picture I have ever entered. I love the throwdowns it makes me cook better and try new things that on my own I probably wouldn't do. It also gives me great ideas and thanks to Rick I decided to try the panko and I'm really glad I did. See learned something new. I'd like to see them stay and not be complicated but just a fun thing to participate in. Because for me this site is about the fun and people not about winning anything. For me it's all about cooking outside and sharing it with others. I'm not upset that I will not be winning the $10,000 cash prize and free trip to the bunny ranch.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 07:39 AM
remember when i said it will never be the same. it is already not the same and money is not on the line yet. i don't know folks, this entire throwdown thing has evolved into something it was never intended to be and the rules are changing and being made retroactive. in the beginning it was a friendly contest with no prize. then the winners from the beginning were eligible for a calendar page retroactively. now the proceeds for the calendar sales are to be given to future winners and that is something that wasn't known to me when i gave permission for my photos to be used in the calendar. these are my thoughts and feeling and if my thoughts and feeling cause chris to author a thread with a bunch of 'farks' in it, then so be it.

zero club? ridiculous.

p.s. btw, it's been a long time since i even came close to winning so i am no threat.

p.s.s. "should entries match the category?" it's intuitively obvious to even the casual observer...

YES!
You are free to believe the calendars are destroying the Throwdowns if you wish, but let's not forget the last big controversy that was just as big as this one:

Allowing multiple entries in the Throwdowns.

That issue came up long before the Calendars or Prizes, and the bickering back and forth on that controversy nearly made me walk away from the Throwdowns.

So I do not see any validity at ALL to any arguments that calendars or prizes are the problem. People took this chit too farking seriously LONG before the calendars or prizes.

Also, let's not forget that the "Let the voters decide" rule was created AFTER this aforementioned topic of multiple entries. It was because of all the chit flinging back and forth and my PM box being lit up that I decided the only way I could allow myself to continue doing the Throwdowns was to put in THAT rule. Now, by some ironic twist of fate, that very rule is now causing this headache.:mad:

So anyone who thinks "Let the voters decide" has been the way, well, you're wrong. That was added later. And anyone saying the calendars or prizes are causing these issues are fooling themselves, especially those who were so caught up in the older issues like the one about having multiple entries. What was their complaint then? It sure as fark wasn't calendars and prizes!

OK, rant off now. Back to the voting.

BTW, I was going to let Smokey Al Gold's chicken-sammy-burger in (then I read he wants it out) because I am thinking I was mistaken to remove it mid-Throwdown. I'm still going to let his entry in if he allows it.

Smokey Al Gold
04-15-2010, 07:47 AM
Sure I would like to have my entry left in if possible but Chris I will leave it up to you. I have no problem if you want to leave it out so that there are no problems for anyone else. If it will cause problems and more bickering feel free to leave it out. I will understand. If it will cause you to use the word fark more you can leave it out too. Like I said earlier it's not about winning for me so either way I'm happy. :becky:

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 07:49 AM
For those of you who think rules are bad, allow me to cover the rules that were listed for the very first Throwdown ever, the Beef Throwdown.

1) It has to be beef...duh!
What's this? Telling people what they can or can't enter?? Why would we ever want to add a rule like that?:rolleyes:

2) It has to be grilled or smoked...(comp cooked meats are ok too).
What if you make Chicken Salad out of leftover Grilled Chicken, does that count??

3) It has to be cooked during the current "throwdown" week...
Solid rule, still in effect

3) All pics or descriptions (if you don't have a digital camera) must be submitted by 7:00 PM Pacific Time on Monday. (Another good one, same sort of rule is still in effect today)

4) 3 pics per entry max and one pic must contain the equipment cooked on. No photo enhancements alowed...(got that Rick...N8...)
Wow, did you read that? No enhanced photos meaning no photochop or brightening or any of that! Only 3 pics allowed, and it has to show the food on the grill so no farking Chicken Salad again!

So, anyone STILL got a problem with the fact that we have been adding rules to make the Throwdowns better?

Also...I need to point out this GEM of a line from that very same first ever Throwdown....

The winner (as determined by popular vote) will recieve a very special prize (not sure what yet...).

WTF IS THAT??? PRIZES??? WHAT WILL THE WORLD COME TO WHEN THE THROWDOWNS HAVE PRIZES??? Oh yeah, this was the FIRST Throwdown wasn't it, so they STARTED with farking prizes!!!:mad:

I expect farking feedback folks. Chime the fark in.

Big George's BBQ
04-15-2010, 07:58 AM
I think the Throwdown is great and I look forward to it. I think it should be left as is. Just my oppinion

deguerre
04-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Did somebody throw a :boom:at the Hapsburgs again? :confused:

weconway
04-15-2010, 08:00 AM
I voted to let the current system in place. It doesn't seem to be too much of an issue. I also think you don't want to be in the position of vetting every entry. That puts you in a pretty bad spot.

I do think, however, that you and the category-chooser should put a little bit of time into defining the category at the beginning. That way you can just say a burger is a patty of ground meat or that a pork rib has to have the bone in it. You don't want to stifle creativity, since that's the point, but you also don't want it to go off into the weeds.

I compete in the 24 Hours of LeMons (http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/) and every year they have to add a few rules because some idiot almost got himself hurt or killed. And every year everyone hoots and hollers that the fun is over. Bull. The sport (and your little comps) are getting more popular with more people involved. So a little structure isn't a bad thing.

As for the zeros club, I get it. It's frustrating when you think you've got a winner and the comp poops on it. There are even times when I enter even though I know I won't win (imagine that - entering for the fun of it). However, I absolutely do not understand entering any kind of contest with the express purpose of failing miserably.

In the end, though, we're all still a bunch of guys (and gals) standing over a fire taking pictures of meat. Do we all need to get bent over this?

deguerre
04-15-2010, 08:04 AM
2) It has to be grilled or smoked...(comp cooked meats are ok too).
What if you make Chicken Salad out of leftover Grilled Chicken, does that count??

Chime the fark in.
Actually, the chicken was smoked SPECIFICALLY for the chicken salad.:becky::bow:

Desert Dweller
04-15-2010, 08:05 AM
I coulda been a contender, if there were no rules...

Bluesman
04-15-2010, 08:10 AM
I have entered one throwdown, to date. It was fun to plan the meal and then decide on how you wanted to present it in a pictorial. Winning isn't really why I would do in as much as the fun in seeing how you fare. I learned a ton from my experience when seeing what I presented looked like with all of the other entries. Prizes and calendar spots shouldn't even be an issue. The Throwdowns should be fun and simple.

Bruger Throwdown............Okay Burgers
Beef Ribs Throwdown......Doesn't need anymore definition, Beef on a rib
Chicken Throwdown......Simple, chicken, not duck, goose, turkey, etc.

To many rules and legalese (sp) just fark it up. The zero club should have it's own set of criteria. I don't even know what the fark the zero club is and could care less. I like the fact that we can post things within a specific throwdown to see the varied creativity of the community. Especially how some folks present thier entry. Making animals out of them is a hoot. That's all part of the fun, to me anyway.

timzcardz
04-15-2010, 08:17 AM
I expect farking feedback folks. Chime the fark in.

Since you asked for feedback, I'll comply.

The introduction to the rules states:
Here is the simple and unchanging list of rules for the BBQ Brethren Throwdown...Leave the rules alone, or lose the "unchanging" adjective.

Lake Dogs
04-15-2010, 08:23 AM
Pondering, if we have a cast-iron throw-down, shouldnt the entry be cooked in
cast iron? If not, why enter, or why have the category to begin with? I like
it. If enforcement is necessary (sad, but probably true), then necessity
dictates action. JMHO.

DanPop
04-15-2010, 08:36 AM
I'm disappointed that there are this many issues for something that is supposed to be fun. I think everyone needs to remember why you joined the Brethren in the first place.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 08:49 AM
I do think, however, that you and the category-chooser should put a little bit of time into defining the category at the beginning. That way you can just say a burger is a patty of ground meat or that a pork rib has to have the bone in it. You don't want to stifle creativity, since that's the point, but you also don't want it to go off into the weeds.
But that is what is at issue. It is the "defining" that people think will take away from the creativity. The poll is asking if we should provide a definition of the category and enforcement to ensure entries meet that definition.

Just thought I should point that out, because I think a lot of people are voting to leave the system "as it always has been" when in fact they really support the other option.

Please note from my other messages, these rules have not ALWAYS been this way, and the current list of rules did not start when I started the Throwdowns. That list has evolved over time, even the "unchanging" list has changed. The reason the word "unchanging" was put in there was to keep people from suggesting new rules all the time.

To many rules and legalese (sp) just fark it up.
I agree, but too few rules also fark it up. The trick is to find the sweet spot in the middle. The rules have changed over time, look at my post in here with the original rules from the first ever Throwdown for example. You'll see some things have not changed, others have. In some cases, we are more open today than we were back then. But sometimes being too open is the problem, which is why this issue is up for debate.

Thanks for your feeback, I love it all, I'm just trying to provide rebuttal to some postings to give people the perspective they need to make an informed decision.

Since you asked for feedback, I'll comply.

The introduction to the rules states:
Leave the rules alone, or lose the "unchanging" adjective.
Even the unchanging rules have changed when needed. That is basically put in there to keep people from freely offering "rule change advice". This way the only time a rule change is brought up it is an important one.

I'm disappointed that there are this many issues for something that is supposed to be fun. I think everyone needs to remember why you joined the Brethren in the first place.
Sadly, there have been issues from the get go. JD left because he thought the Throwdowns were getting tough to manage. The very first Throwdown I put up was taken down. The next ones after that were loaded with debate, and some of the people involved are still involved in the throwdowns and/or this debate and their advice and viewpoints are sorely needed here.

I don't think people take things seriously, they just want what "they" think is a fair shot. Not everyone agrees on what fair means, and that is what the rules are for, to clear up those contentious areas. Everyone enters these for fun. There is not a person out there entering just for the certificate, or the "hope" of getting in the calendar, or for cheap prizes that aren't even available yet. At least that is what I think anyway.

Midnight Smoke
04-15-2010, 09:10 AM
Not that my opinion means much, or that I know much. This was all started to be fun and it still is. Why such an outburst of emotions. If someone turns in something that is not part of the Throwdown category and the voters choose to push that entry over the top of another entry that was on category, I would be surprised.

To me a chicken Thigh sandwich is not a burger. It was a very good Picture but just out of place. With that said my vote goes with the entry needs to match the category!

JMHO...

I think Chris has done a great job of keeping these things going (he should be as much as we are paying him :wink:).

deguerre
04-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Here are MY rules for the throwdown. There are only two:
Rule # 1: Have FUN
Rule # 2: See rule # 1

When I enter the throwdowns, I do so because I enjoyed what I made and wanted to share it with a larger audience than one that might see just a regular cook thread. I never enter with the intention of winning (or intentially scoring a zero to increase my status and package size in the Zero's club - struttin' rooster mod). Sure, winning would be fun and gratifying, but so is getting just a single vote because that means someone appreciated and perhaps enjoyed what you did. Prizes do not matter to me, nor does the prospect of perhaps getting a photo in a calendar (NTTAWWT:becky:) The Throwdown to me is like recess. A break from the classroom of my life, and the fewer rules the better.

If anything needs changing, the person choosing the category for the week could be more specific about what the category is. Or not, depending on their personal musings.

As to intentially trying to enter the Zero club by nefarious reason, if someone were devious enough to attempt that, there is probably always going to be someone else that is just as devious and give them a vote.:thumb:

There. My .02
Off semi rant.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 09:21 AM
I think Chris has done a great job of keeping these things going (he should be as much as we are paying him :wink:).
All Black Helicopters are now sweeping the Southern Arizona Desert with permission to fire at will.:heh:

Just kidding. I laughed out loud when I read that.:clap2:

The BBQ QB
04-15-2010, 09:33 AM
When I enter the throwdowns, I do so because I enjoyed what I made and wanted to share it with a larger audience than one that might see just a regular cook thread. I never enter with the intention of winning (or intentially scoring a zero to increase my status and package size in the Zero's club - struttin' rooster mod). Sure, winning would be fun and gratifying, but so is getting just a single vote because that means someone appreciated and perhaps enjoyed what you did. Prizes do not matter to me, nor does the prospect of perhaps getting a photo in a calendar (NTTAWWT:becky:) The Throwdown to me is like recess. A break from the classroom of my life, and the fewer rules the better.


My sentiments exactly.

If the TD had said "Beef Burgers" then this discussion would be much different. If the category selector wished to be more specific (I'm not sayin he did) then that is how the TD title should be worded.....

A "Meatball" throwdown is not the same as a "Stilton Stuffed Pork Panko Ball" competition.

IMO you already have a rule in place, it's called the Title of the throwdown. If "Burgers" is too loose of a definition, then when the category is being selected point that out to the selector prior to the posting, if he doesn't care, then you shouldn't.

As for the Zero club membership, perhaps that's for the zero club to decide, it has nothing to do with the throwdown itself and should not bear on the rules here.

JM2C.

Mike D

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 09:42 AM
As for the Zero club membership, perhaps that's for the zero club to decide, it has nothing to do with the throwdown itself and should not bear on the rules here.
I sort of agree, but need to point out that the whole concept of the zero club is for someone to first get a zero in a Throwdown. So it starts here in the Throwdowns and there is no getting around that.

I'm good with whatever the majority decides, I don't ever WANT to change the rules of course, but they have changed SEVERAL times since I started doing the Throwdowns, and each time it was for a VERY GOOD reason. So rule changes are not BAD, in fact, the Throwdowns would never have become what they are today WITHOUT changes to the rules.

The BBQ QB
04-15-2010, 10:12 AM
I sort of agree, but need to point out that the whole concept of the zero club is for someone to first get a zero in a Throwdown. So it starts here in the Throwdowns and there is no getting around that.

Agree, but it is a club, and as such, it's rules for membership should not even be considered in the TD. If individuals want to enter carp just to get a 0, well so be it

Maybe, dare I say it, the zero club should have some higher standards. (Kindof a Nietschian dilemma there) than just getting a zero. Either way, I don't beleive it is the TD's place to police the (or any) clubs entry requirements.

As I see it, that is the central component of the discussion. Remove it, and we're back to what we have been doing for some time!

Mike D

The Moss Pit
04-15-2010, 11:21 AM
I voted yes for the dq but not because of chicken burgers or goose burgers but the one example given was tofu and lettuce wraps. There is always a limit and there will always be someone to push it. no matter what the pit come of the vote or decision given we all have a common goal to have fun drink beer and to perfect the art of Q.

zydecopaws
04-15-2010, 01:03 PM
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/photobastard/Ssammich_450.jpg


:becky:

That's Moose Turd Pie! But it's good...

landarc
04-15-2010, 01:10 PM
Hey Bigabyte, where is my Throw Down certificate? I have been waiting for months. When I applied for certification, I did not think it would take this long.

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 01:13 PM
That's Moose Turd Pie! But it's good...

Not sher what you're talking about... I never posted that pic. :rolleyes:

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 01:35 PM
Hey Bigabyte, where is my Throw Down certificate? I have been waiting for months. When I applied for certification, I did not think it would take this long.
Sorry about taking so long. I got distracted by something shiny.

deguerre
04-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Sorry about taking so long. I got distracted by something shiny.
<<<<<< Is slowly shaking his head thinking this person is deeply disturbed. Whoops, wrong thread AND forum...

fweck
04-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Sorry about taking so long. I got distracted by something shiny.
You owe me a new monitor!!

As both a winner of a Throwdown and a member of the Zero's Club :bow: I think the rules should stand the way they are and let the voters decide.
Although I knew my zero entry wouldn't win, I was disappointed that it received no votes :frown:. And then I forgot all about it until I saw the official zero's list.
The Zero's Club is an exclusive club, but it's kind of like that line of Groucho Marx's

“I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”


Except that I am glad to be a member of this club, I just don't think I would have purposely tried to be eligible to be in it.:grouphug:

King
04-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I think more emphasis should be on the voting process and not the entries. The voters should decide if the entry meets the category criteria.

Ask voters....
1. Does the entry resemble the category?
2. Does it meet the criteria of the rules of the throwdown?
3. Choose the best entry with honesty and integrity.

BTW...Changes to rules are not a bad thing. Living documents protect the integrity of the original intent of the document. The TD rules change often because new cooking technology, culture and methods are being introduced faster than this site is growing. Minor tweaks should be allowed so the rules can be clear and reasonable.

deguerre
04-15-2010, 02:03 PM
“I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”


Except that I am glad to be a member of this club, I just don't think I would have purposely tried to be eligible to be in it.:grouphug:

Where's my reach around?

Jorge
04-15-2010, 02:17 PM
OK, let me get this straight....there needs to be a vote, for example, as to whether or not a chicken breast sandwich is a burger, and whether that should be allowed?

I get creativity, I get the fun of showing what you've produced. I don't have time between work, family responsibilities, and dealing with mayhem here to cook AND take pics nearly as much as I'd like.

I also get the fact that a member has stepped up and run this thing for over a year. I get the fact that every single time that somebody has a gripe he gets at least one PM and sometimes more. I hope some, if not most, of you have taken the time to thank him for the time he's taken to spend on this. Time that is probably more valuable to him and his family than it is to you.

That contest has grown as the forum has; and while he might not say it, I'm sure that bigabyte can tell you that the demands on his time, dealing with the contest, have grown as well.

It's a contest for fun, minimal notoriety in a calendar, and potentially some sort of prize. Some of you guys act like you are looking for an edge to distribute the cure for cancer!

It's just freaking BBQ, and a contest among friends on the internet. Give Chris/bigabyte a break. If it had been me, I'd have told some of you to get bent and go create your own sandbox to play in.

landarc
04-15-2010, 02:43 PM
Now that I have my cherished certificate, I am satisfied with whatever makes it good for Bigabyte.

lcbateman3
04-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Ok, I don't have a dog in this show, but what the heck, I'll throw my two cent in.

Has anyone looked up the definition of a burger? Here you go
burger 
a combining form extracted from hamburger, occurring in compounds the initial element of which denotes a special garnish for a hamburger or a substitute ingredient for the meat patty: baconburger; cheeseburger; fishburger.

So the chicken burger would relate. Its a meat patty. Chicken is meat, or at least I think it is. I'll go look that up if need be.

Now of course there needs to be common sense as pointed out. If you are in a beef catergory, you don't enter freaking chicken by itself. Now Beef stuffed chicken, hey its something new. I enjoy the throwdown threads because it gives me great ideas. If I had a decent camera I would vote myself.

What I think is great about it is that we, the members of this wonderful forum get to vote. What I think looks great may look horrible to you. Its all open to our call. Carry on now. I look foward to more throw downs.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 03:02 PM
Don't forget the definition of patty:tongue:
Main Entry: pat·ty
Variant(s): also pat·tie \ˈpa-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural patties
Etymology: French pâté pâté
Date: 1710
1 : a little pie
2 a : a small flat cake of chopped food <a hamburger patty> b : a small flat candy <a peppermint patty>
3 : patty shell

landarc
04-15-2010, 03:06 PM
Is a Brethren patty different from a normal patty? Are there pics of a Brethren patty? Were Shane and Billy involved?

lcbateman3
04-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Don't forget the definition of patty:tongue:


See is it patty or pattie? Confusing.

Dont foget meat either


meat

   /mit/ http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html) Show Spelled[meet] http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html) Show IPA
–noun 1. the flesh of animals as used for food.

2. the edible part of anything, as a fruit or nut: Crack the walnuts and remove the meats.

(deleted a few of the other def. Didn't need them up there)

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 03:15 PM
My sandbox has turd sammiches in it...

deguerre
04-15-2010, 03:19 PM
My sandbox has turd sammiches in it...
You found my cats?

Jorge
04-15-2010, 03:25 PM
As a freindly note, and not one from a moderator...this is Q-talk and not Woodpile.

weconway
04-15-2010, 03:25 PM
I think we'd all be able to judge throwdowns much more accurately if we separated the various aspects of looking at a throwdown picture into their own separate elements, say "appearance", "assumed texture" and "assumed taste". We'd all make our best judgements to rate each on a scale from 0-10 based on how we think each entry would be in real life (but being careful not to compare each entry to the others).

We'd have to DQ any pictures with illegal garnishes of course (beer, scantily clad women, non-meat foods, etc.) and someone would have to tally all the votes. In the end, though, I have confidence that we'd have a result we could all stand by with absolutely no controversy or dissent.

:doh: :-D

William

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 03:27 PM
I think we'd all be able to judge throwdowns much more accurately if we separated the various aspects of looking at a throwdown picture into their own separate elements, say "appearance", "assumed texture" and "assumed taste". We'd all make our best judgements to rate each on a scale from 0-10 based on how we think each entry would be in real life (but being careful not to compare each entry to the others).

We'd have to DQ any pictures with illegal garnishes of course (beer, scantily clad women, non-meat foods, etc.) and someone would have to tally all the votes. In the end, though, I have confidence that we'd have a result we could all stand by with absolutely no controversy or dissent.

:doh: :-D

William
That was the best response yet.:clap2::heh::thumb:

BBQchef33
04-15-2010, 03:33 PM
Heres MY VOTE.


Chris has been running this show out of his own life and his out pocket of time.

He makes the rules. Its disheartening to see the questioning of his intent, contests integrtity or the direction he chooses to take the throwdowns.

My take is its Simple.. Do it the same way I started this forum. Set your rules(current or new), and whoever like them joins in. Players take them for HOW THEY ARE INTENDED without looking for loopholes(similar to our forum rules) and the contests moderator(chris) decision is final.

Throwdown forum is going up. Chris is moderator. Moderator decision is final.

BigButzBBQ
04-15-2010, 03:41 PM
I say that in the end what will win will be what the overall group believes to be that which best embodies the spirit of said throwdown and leave it as that. No one likes a winner who wins simply by getting everyone else thrown out of the race.
In the end, the majority of these contests is made up of pure appearance, I think it would be better try try to regulate photo quality before what is pictured within it. :laugh:

Ron_L
04-15-2010, 03:45 PM
I can't believe there is 5 pages discussing this. Of course the entries should match the category! What is the sense on having a category if they don't?

BBQchef33
04-15-2010, 03:53 PM
In case no one noticed. Throwdowns now have their own forum. This has been on my short list since december, and since the throwdowns have been such an integral part of our forums, we feel chris has earned the rights to this forum and setting its guidelines.

chris is moderator(as well as a the regular team). Shoot me a forum description and we will set thast in place to. Final location may wind up a subforum somewhere, but this ball is now rolling.

landarc
04-15-2010, 04:34 PM
Cool, Bogabyte got his own forum for the Throw Downs.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Whoa...I have new SHINY buttons!!!:becky:

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Wait, Chris gets to mod his own TD forum??!!

Isn't that like making an ex-con the sheriff of his home town??

Who's gonna mod him???? :becky:

BobBrisket
04-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Run with the ball, Chris!!:thumb:

landarc
04-15-2010, 04:55 PM
Hello, my name is Dum-Dum. I wish Chris would not moderate me so much and instead shower me with hugs and kisses. But he is cold to my advances. I have to get all my love from KnucklHed, he is so giving.

zydecopaws
04-15-2010, 05:02 PM
squirrel squirrel squirrel...:-P...c'mon Chris, moderate me...taunt taunt taunt
Wrong forum. Let's all go to the throwdown forum and have a Ninja Death Squirrel with Black Helicopter throwdown.

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 05:14 PM
Did landarc say something?:becky:

leanza
04-15-2010, 05:16 PM
I waded through about 50% of this thread.

I've never partisipated in a TD but I will. I was thinking, since this will be a sub fourm why not have an "Open" and at one point a "Zero's " comp or something or even a TD for the worst most got awful presentations.

Just sayin.....:confused:

zydecopaws
04-15-2010, 05:18 PM
Did landarc say something?:becky:

I see the power has already gone to your head. But since you did it to Dum-Dum it's all good. :thumb:

Midnight Smoke
04-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Whoa...I have new SHINY buttons!!!:becky:

Just great, now Chris has something shiny to distract him! :director:

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 05:30 PM
I waded through about 50% of this thread.

I've never partisipated in a TD but I will. I was thinking, since this will be a sub fourm why not have an "Open" and at one point a "Zero's " comp or something or even a TD for the worst most got awful presentations.

Just sayin.....:confused:
I like these ideas. Right now I'm trying to get up to speed with getting this forum in order and figuring out which buttons I should post without nuking people's posts. Once I get all that down, I will definitely be considering options available to have more fun.:cool:

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 05:37 PM
I have to get all my love from KnucklHed, he is so giving.

Aww shucks!! :icon_blush:

I'd appreciate it if we could have this conversation somewhere else tho... seems like there alot of people milling around. :gossip: they might start talking...

leanza
04-15-2010, 05:38 PM
Chris, can't wait to see your shiney-Moderator's Badge. I want to be invited to the pinning ceremony. We can throw a BBQ in your honor.

landarc
04-15-2010, 05:42 PM
Did landarc say something?:becky:
Well played Amigo, well played. I need my keyboard wipes now. :laugh:

Gore
04-15-2010, 06:07 PM
Gheesh, I go to work and come home and I feel like WWIII occurred and I missed it! Between this and Woodpile, I may never visit Q-talk again -- hey, if I don't visit Q-talk anymore, can I get a reduced subscription rate?

I just want to jot down a few musings:
1. I thought there were a number of posts on here that made some interesting points and it was all good reading. I want it noted that in the early posts, Chris asked for, even begged for feedback. He got feedback and quite reasonable feedback too (none of it mine). I don't agree with GP's post that we were questioning his intent, etc., just expressing our opinions that he asked for.
2. I note that Chris makes a point that the purpose of this poll largely is the result of the Zero Club.* Like I said, I am more than happy to delete this site. It is of so little importance. Perhaps this should have been the third option in the poll, but Chris states he doesn't want this to happen and it is his poll afterall.
3. I don't believe the change Chris proposes will make a huge difference to the throwdowns. I just question whether there will be unintended consequences of the rule. When you have too many rules, people don't read them (kindof like this post). Also, newer members may be intimidated, thinking that they have this hurdle to overcome in order to even enter a dish. Most importantly, he may get 1000s of PMs asking him to disqualify certain entries -- I hope that doesn't happen, but it could.
4. This rule is not necessarily permanent. If Chris doesn't like it, he could change it.
5. I personally doubt it will be enforced, but perhaps that is now just a challenge! I would like to ask Chris if there are any entries that he would have DQ'ed -- except for mine:icon_blush:. If there are none, then I don't see a reason for a rule.
6. I would find it very hard to define what some of these things are -- burgers, for instance, as we see. This site is visited all over the world and people all over the world have different definitions. By giving a definition, this could put some limitation on creativity. I like seeing the different entries of Phubar and SmokinAussie, for instance. They cook with an accent. If a definition is given, I would want it to be the broadest imaginable. On the positive side of this, by giving Chris the power to DQ an item, it automatically means that he certifies that all the dishes in the throwdown are valid and people do not need to wonder if it qualifies or not.

Just my thoughts. In sum, I don't think it is a big deal. I personally think "let the voters decide" is the best option, but if you want to give this a try, then let's see how it works.

* For those of you who don't know what the zero club is, it came about largely because of Bob. It seems every throwdown has 2-3 really good entries (at least in my top 5) that get very few or no votes. Bob submitted what I consider to be one of the great fatties of all time, easily in my top 5 and I was going to vote for it, but it had zero votes. In my mind it would be better to have such a good entry get zero votes than one, so I did not. From this, the Zero Club came about, to celebrate these zeros. It is meant to put a positive spin on them. I never thought it would be something people would strive for though.

BBQchef33
04-15-2010, 06:21 PM
Gheesh, I go to work and come home and I feel like WWIII occurred and I missed it! Between this and Woodpile, I may never visit Q-talk again -- hey, if I don't visit Q-talk anymore, can I get a reduced subscription rate?

I don't agree with GP's post that we were questioning his intent, etc., just expressing our opinions that he asked for.


Your right.., i should not have blanketed the statement in THIS thread.

Please dont read to much into my statement, its based on several posts from other threads and a few phone conversations.

Gore
04-15-2010, 06:37 PM
Your right.., i should not have blanketed the statement in THIS thread.

Please dont read to much into my statement, its based on several posts from other threads and a few phone conversations.

Just a bit confused. It's hard on the internet for people to know exactly what others are thinking and it's common to think people are being really critical and harsh, when in fact they aren't or might even be joking. I obviously don't know what Chris goes through, but believe me I am very thankful for having him here. I think part of the reason we get so emotional about changes to the TDs is that we all love them so much. I trust you're giving him the six figures and the same benefit package package as the other mods. He's definitely earned it!

Gore
04-15-2010, 06:43 PM
Agree, but it is a club, and as such, it's rules for membership should not even be considered in the TD. If individuals want to enter carp just to get a 0, well so be it

Maybe, dare I say it, the zero club should have some higher standards. (Kindof a Nietschian dilemma there) than just getting a zero. Either way, I don't beleive it is the TD's place to police the (or any) clubs entry requirements.

As I see it, that is the central component of the discussion. Remove it, and we're back to what we have been doing for some time!


I tend to agree with Mike here. One simple solution to the problem is to beef up the requirements on the Zero Club. To join the Zero Club your dish must also have received at least one vote in a TD. That would demonstrate that we have some standards! :thumb:

landarc
04-15-2010, 06:49 PM
I tend to agree with Mike here. One simple solution to the problem is to beef up the requirements on the Zero Club. To join the Zero Club your dish must also have received at least one vote in a TD. That would demonstrate that we have some standards! :thumb:
I do not want to go down a road where even the Zero Club becomes an issue. But, if you get one vote, is it really a zero? Dangitall, can't we just have a fun little contest without pages of discussion? If we end up with 14,000 members of the Zero Club, how is that a bad thing, it means that many people entered. And quit calling The Poobah before he whips out his angry red pen and nobody is happy when that happens.

Gore
04-15-2010, 06:56 PM
I do not want to go down a road where even the Zero Club becomes an issue. But, if you get one vote, is it really a zero? Dangitall, can't we just have a fun little contest without pages of discussion? If we end up with 14,000 members of the Zero Club, how is that a bad thing, it means that many people entered. And quit calling The Poobah before he whips out his angry red pen and nobody is happy when that happens.

See that's the problem when there is no sarcasm smilie! Sorry Bob, that was supposed to be a joke. I guess I'm not in your head though. I have no problem with 14,000 in the club. I will do no modding, make no rules, do no enforcement. I am not Chris. I am lazy.

And we always have pages of discussion, that is our nature. The problem is that we are still on topic!

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 07:09 PM
I will do no modding, make no rules, do no enforcement. I am not Chris. I am lazy.

LMAO :clap2:


And we always have pages of discussion, that is our nature. The problem is that we are still on topic!

I tried my best to derail this sucker early on with a well placed pic... I knew where it was headed!! :heh::heh::cool:

landarc
04-15-2010, 07:11 PM
We are? I thought we were in full hijack mode. What happened? *sarcasm smiley here*

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 07:42 PM
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.:cool:

I'm not worried about getting 1000's of PM's about entries people find problems with. The "Shut Up and Vote" rule is still in effect, it is listed as Rule #9 here...
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82799

Also, I've decided that posting a description won't be necessary. So far everyone has been great about posting stuff related to the category, except for Smokey Al Gold. But don't worry, Smokey Al Gold is perfectly safe from my heavy-handed tyrannical moderation super-powers. His only penance for the Great Chicken-Sammich Debacle of 2010 is promising to keep entering more Throwdowns in the future.:thumb:

This sort of thing probably won't happen again, but if it does the next time it can be handled much differently with nobody needing to know. I can just let the offender know of the problem privately, and they can either address the problem or simply not have their entry go to the voting thread. If they want to stop having fun and start raising a stink about stuff, then they will have to leave the party until they start being fun again. It's as simple as that.

No ugliness is required any more.:clap:

Also, Gore, your Parsley was indeed a vegetable and was (as you said anyway) placed on the smoker. So it qualified. However, you might note that the new Rule #1 states:
1. The dish must feature an item that matches the featured category.

I'm not saying I would not allow it, but I might send you a message to get a better idea of your intent and then decide. You should have no fear of posting your submission.

Think Iron Chef in a way. They have to make sure the category is featured. In the case of an unusual Throwdown where this would be impossible (The Cast Iron one, or maybe even a future MSG one), then I will make a special allotment in that category.

I do not see any reason why any creativity or fun should be stifled with the new rules. It is still just as open to interpretation as before, the only real difference is that now I can moderate these threads in the event an event should occur.

...but that won't ever happen because we're all friends having a friendly competition and the moderator is forcing us to keep it fun. So anyone not having fun or ruining the fun for others will just have to leave our little backyard bash until they are fun again.

So smile and have fun! If you are not having fun, please go here.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82804

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 07:53 PM
Smokey Al Gold is perfectly safe from my heavy-handed tyrannical moderation super-powers.

That's different from heavy petting right?

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 07:56 PM
That's different from heavy petting right?
I don't know, we better check the definitions from Webster's...they MIGHT be similar...

landarc
04-15-2010, 08:20 PM
MSG Throw down? I am there, just as soon as I win.

Grillman
04-15-2010, 09:42 PM
You mean this isn't like 3rd. grade soccer; where everybody gets a trophy?

Smokey Al Gold
04-15-2010, 09:52 PM
It is true I've kept quiet since I started all this with the chicken burger uh I mean sammich or whatever it is heard round the world. For fear of black hawk helicopters circling my house and secret squirrels trying to steal my nuts I've just watched all of this unfold while wearing my foil hat in my closet. I worked very hard on that sammich (I mean burger) so that we could have our very own throwdown forum. :-D I agree with everything and I think the throwdowns will continue to be fun and you bet I will continue to be a part of it. I guess it was just my time to stir up controversy but hey its all in good fun. I took a picture of myself for you guys to commorate this event.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/bbq-brethren/steve-urkel.jpg

bigabyte
04-15-2010, 10:28 PM
That was one major conspiracy you unleashed on us there Smokey, and I thank you for it!:biggrin:

Grillman
04-15-2010, 11:24 PM
All complaints will be dealt with accordingly.

http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/cats/558_machine-gun-cat.gif

KnucklHed BBQ
04-15-2010, 11:44 PM
All complaints will be dealt with accordingly.

http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/cats/558_machine-gun-cat.gif

Hey! You found Guerry's kitty!

deguerre
04-16-2010, 07:34 AM
Hey! You found Guerry's kitty!
Cats. Let them get away for FIVE MINUTES and look at what happens. Harrumph. Bad kitty.:heh:

BlkJeep
04-16-2010, 01:12 PM
WOW! What a read, I actually worked for a day and missed all this fun!! I'm glad the TD got their own forum, much easier to follow along with in that format. I love the throw downs! I can't believe Chris puts in all his time, just so we can have fun, and still gets his PM Box blown away!! Well if it hasn't been said enough,

THANKS CHRIS FOR YOUR EFFORTS AND BRINGING US A THROW DOWN EVERY WEEK!!!! :clap2::clap2::thumb::thumb:

bigabyte
04-16-2010, 01:33 PM
Despite the occasional headaches...I have a TON of fun doing the Throwdowns.:cool: Thank you everyone for making them what they are.

deguerre
04-16-2010, 01:48 PM
Burger.:becky:

bigabyte
04-16-2010, 02:28 PM
Burger.:becky:
I'm NOT LISTENING!!!!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/bigabyte/the_optimist2.jpg

zydecopaws
04-16-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm NOT LISTENING!!!!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/bigabyte/the_optimist2.jpg

What's up with the backwards writing on the shirt? Is that some sort of secret code?

Midnight Smoke
04-16-2010, 04:08 PM
Can't we all just get along... :wink:

landarc
04-16-2010, 04:22 PM
I see Chris's antenna are leaning to the left again.

bigabyte
04-16-2010, 04:47 PM
I see Chris's antenna are leaning to the left again.
No, they're definitely pointing to my right. I definitely know my right from left. Farking left.

landarc
04-16-2010, 05:11 PM
Perhaps, but it appears to be leaning to my left, which means you are leaning to the left of a CA type person.

bigabyte
04-16-2010, 08:41 PM
If I appear left to you, then that must mean you are even more to the right than me, you crazy right-wing extremist you!:biggrin:

The BBQ QB
04-16-2010, 10:29 PM
Oooh shiny.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=2228

Mike D

Lake Dogs
04-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Ok, so, which is it? 55/45 split; good reasons all around. I think I submitted my XL
entry too late. What about my little chicks? Too late?