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Derek
04-08-2010, 11:12 AM
Hi everyone.

A gentleman is going to allow me to smoke some chickens for the practice kc event in Eagle City and I was reading the thread about the turn in boxes.

And I've found out you want 6 peices in the box, that's fine. But why does everyone serve letus on the bottom of the box?


Also Were do I buy little to go containers to add bbq sauce? Just incase they want to dip the chicken into the sauce?

Brew-B-Q
04-08-2010, 11:16 AM
Lettuce or parsley is in the box to help the meat not slide around, and to also enhance the appearance of the meat. It looks better on a bed of fresh greens than a bed of white styrofoam.

Regarding sauce cups - if it is KCBS, you can't do that. If you are submitting sauced entries, the meat needs to have the sauce applied to it. You can't put anything but the meat and a few approved garnished in the box. No cups, foil, etc.

Derek
04-08-2010, 11:30 AM
Thank you Brew B-q,

Yes it's a kc style practice event.

So basically Lettuce or parsley? Ok thanks and why 6 peices? Why not 8 or 4 or 2? Is it because 6 pieces fits in the box perfect?

Lake Dogs
04-08-2010, 11:35 AM
6 minimum; 1 for every judge, can have more. Search for worst turn in boxes, you'll find many examples.

Do not crowd. No puddling of sauce/juice. The better looking greenery frames the
bbq by making a "putting green".

I suggest looking at the 2010 rules; found on right side (PDF) of this page:

http://www.kcbs.us/contact.php

Derek
04-08-2010, 11:42 AM
Thanks Lake Dog. I've been looking at that thread all morning and I've learned a lot.

paydabill
04-08-2010, 11:51 AM
I agree - the parcely and lettuce really serve no purpose except keeping the meat in place and looking good for the judges.

6 pices is really all I can fit. I do bone in thighs, now some people do the bone out (what i like ot call nuggets) and their presentations show 9 in a box.

Derek
04-08-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the help padbills. I'll stick with 6 and lettus.

Lake Dogs
04-08-2010, 12:55 PM
i actually make a "putting green" out of the darker big-leaf lettuce (not iceberg, but
cant remember its name), slice it very very thin, then place along the bottom. You
can have too much greenery and have it cover your Q or take away from the
presentation. Think: color & backdrop, ala. frame. Not a greenery "glove".

deguerre
04-08-2010, 01:03 PM
i actually make a "putting green" out of the darker big-leaf lettuce (not iceberg, but
cant remember its name), slice it very very thin, then place along the bottom. You
can have too much greenery and have it cover your Q or take away from the
presentation. Think: color & backdrop, ala. frame. Not a greenery "glove".
Is it romaine? it slices beautifully and makes a very pretty dark to light green spectrum.

ZILLA
04-08-2010, 01:06 PM
whoops....

Derek
04-08-2010, 01:08 PM
Is it romaine? it slices beautifully and makes a very pretty dark to light green spectrum.Thanks Geurry, I was thinking the same thing.

whoops....Do I want to turn in 3 pieces of dark and 3 white?

Lake Dogs
04-08-2010, 01:11 PM
Is it romaine? it slices beautifully and makes a very pretty dark to light green spectrum.

that's it. the darker the better. yes, i did just give away my secret. to
me, in bbq, there are no secrets, not really... anyway, its much faster
than trying to snip all those little parsley pieces and get them flat. we've
never had less than an 8 on appearance, so this seems to work for us.
this is really a kcbs thing. most (not certain about ALL) of the other bbq
sanctioning bodies do not allow anything other than meat in the box [well,
one allows foil].

Derek, turn in what you'd like, just make certain its a minimum of 6 identifiable
pieces. I suggest keeping them all the same. We dont want a judge to feel
"slighted" if he/she wanted white meat but they were all taken. If you can
make nice moist white meat, go with it. However, most will turn in thighs
because they stay moist longer...

Derek
04-08-2010, 01:40 PM
that's it. the darker the better. yes, i did just give away my secret. to
me, in bbq, there are no secrets, not really... anyway, its much faster
than trying to snip all those little parsley pieces and get them flat. we've
never had less than an 8 on appearance, so this seems to work for us.
this is really a kcbs thing. most (not certain about ALL) of the other bbq
sanctioning bodies do not allow anything other than meat in the box [well,
one allows foil].

Derek, turn in what you'd like, just make certain its a minimum of 6 identifiable
pieces. I suggest keeping them all the same. We dont want a judge to feel
"slighted" if he/she wanted white meat but they were all taken. If you can
make nice moist white meat, go with it. However, most will turn in thighs
because they stay moist longer...I hear you I watch Chopped & Top chef, The judges go prime evil on your bum when you don't give them the same pieces.

BBQchef33
04-08-2010, 09:45 PM
READ THIS (http://kcbs.us/pdf/KCBS-Rules-and-Regulations-2010.pdf)

MEMORIZE IT! :)

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 09:23 AM
Thanks Geurry, I was thinking the same thing.

Do I want to turn in 3 pieces of dark and 3 white?

Derek, turn in what you'd like, just make certain its a minimum of 6 identifiable pieces. I suggest keeping them all the same. We dont want a judge to feel "slighted" if he/she wanted white meat but they were all taken. If you can make nice moist white meat, go with it. However, most will turn in thighs because they stay moist longer...

I agree with Lake Dog. You don't want to piss them off before they even take a taste.

READ THIS (http://kcbs.us/pdf/KCBS-Rules-and-Regulations-2010.pdf)

MEMORIZE IT! :)
Then print it out and take it with you.

These are also very helpful...

Your First Cookoff (http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/YourFirstCookoff.pdf)

Contest Rep Advisories, Revised 2010 (http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/contest-rep-advisories-2010.pdf)

Derek
04-09-2010, 09:55 AM
I agree with Lake Dog. You don't want to piss them off before they even take a taste.


Then print it out and take it with you.

These are also very helpful...

Your First Cookoff (http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/YourFirstCookoff.pdf)

Contest Rep Advisories, Revised 2010 (http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/contest-rep-advisories-2010.pdf)Thank you for the links Divemaster. And thank you for the help gang!

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
04-09-2010, 10:06 AM
What smoker are you planning on using for this? I ask this because only certain equipment is legal to use for a KCBS contest.

Derek
04-09-2010, 10:14 AM
What smoker are you planning on using for this? I ask this because only certain equipment is legal to use for a KCBS contest.It's going to be a char coal smoker, probably a UDS!

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 10:23 AM
What smoker are you planning on using for this? I ask this because only certain equipment is legal to use for a KCBS contest.

It's going to be a char coal smoker, probably a UDS!
You should be fine... The only reason we ask is because gas and electric smokers aren't allowed...

Have you done a practice cook using all of the meats? Again I'm asking only to insure that you'll have enough space to cook it all.

Derek
04-09-2010, 10:38 AM
You should be fine... The only reason we ask is because gas and electric smokers aren't allowed...

Have you done a practice cook using all of the meats? Again I'm asking only to insure that you'll have enough space to cook it all.Yes at home, And the gentleman has 3 other cooks working on the other meats. I'm doing the chicken. His best friend is doing the st loius style ribs and 2 others are doing the beef and so on.

All this gentleman has are Char coal smokers, By the way why s gas & electric illegal?

JohnJ
04-09-2010, 10:43 AM
Derek,

Being a fairly new judge, one point made to us during our training that made sense to me was simply that when you build your box make the meat "jump out" at the judges and make it look like something that they can hardly wait to sink their teeth into. (Not literally make it move or jump out but stand out). Shrubbery is good to frame and hold it in place, overall aesthetics, but ensure your meat sitting on top looks delicious!

Also, same pieces/cuts. I feel that is very important. Again, no pooling of sauce.

My .02 cents. Good luck!

John

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 10:55 AM
Yes at home, And the gentleman has 3 other cooks working on the other meats. I'm doing the chicken. His best friend is doing the st loius style ribs and 2 others are doing the beef and so on.

All this gentleman has are Char coal smokers, By the way why s gas & electric illegal?

It's just the rules...

6) Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and
electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or
holding. Propane or electric is permitted as fire starters,
provided that the competition meat is not in/on the cooking
device. Electrical accessories such as spits, augers, or forced
draft are permitted. No open pits or holes are permitted,
except at the election of the contest organizer. Fires shall not
be built on the ground.

Ron_L
04-09-2010, 01:56 PM
Derek... A couple of the guys have linked to the KCBS rules in this thread. I highly recommend that you read them and memorize them before you go to this competition. Also, search the Competition forum here for examples of turn in boxes and discussions on chicken so you know what the judges are going to be seeing from the other teams. Not that you have to turn in exactly what they are turning in, but more to give you an idea of what competition chicken is like. It is very different than what you would cook at home.

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 02:03 PM
Derek... A couple of the guys have linked to the KCBS rules in this thread. I highly recommend that you read them and memorize them before you go to this competition. Also, search the Competition forum here for examples of turn in boxes and discussions on chicken so you know what the judges are going to be seeing from the other teams. Not that you have to turn in exactly what they are turning in, but more to give you an idea of what competition chicken is like. It is very different than what you would cook at home.
What ^^^^ said...

Derek
04-09-2010, 03:39 PM
Derek,

Being a fairly new judge, one point made to us during our training that made sense to me was simply that when you build your box make the meat "jump out" at the judges and make it look like something that they can hardly wait to sink their teeth into. (Not literally make it move or jump out but stand out). Shrubbery is good to frame and hold it in place, overall aesthetics, but ensure your meat sitting on top looks delicious!

Also, same pieces/cuts. I feel that is very important. Again, no pooling of sauce.

My .02 cents. Good luck!

JohnJohn, Thank you sir, I will be remembering this all ways

It's just the rules...

6) Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and
electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or
holding. Propane or electric is permitted as fire starters,
provided that the competition meat is not in/on the cooking
device. Electrical accessories such as spits, augers, or forced
draft are permitted. No open pits or holes are permitted,
except at the election of the contest organizer. Fires shall not
be built on the ground.
Thank you Divemaster, That's a good explction of what I will need to know.

Derek... A couple of the guys have linked to the KCBS rules in this thread. I highly recommend that you read them and memorize them before you go to this competition. Also, search the Competition forum here for examples of turn in boxes and discussions on chicken so you know what the judges are going to be seeing from the other teams. Not that you have to turn in exactly what they are turning in, but more to give you an idea of what competition chicken is like. It is very different than what you would cook at home.Ron, Sir. I take in all the information like a sponge, I've also been reading the links and send thtem to my Iphone. I know you think I'm an idiot some times in my posts because I can't remember tings right away but I will assure you I'll advice from these Gentlman.

What ^^^^ said...Thanks again guys, I've learned so much Just because of your posts!


Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I will show you guys my turn in boxes after the compition!


Thank you again!

JohnJ
04-09-2010, 04:43 PM
Derek,

One last thing that could help you and I think maybe any competitor, would be to take the Judge class. In my class there were quite a few guys and gals who only wanted to compete and not judge. They learned some stuff, I believe, and at my class we all really learned what bad BBQ is/was. We were all hoping for some good Q being at a "judging class/seminar". I was sooo disappointed and oh so wrong!

John

Lake Dogs
04-09-2010, 07:25 PM
Derek,

One last thing that could help you and I think maybe any competitor, would be to take the Judge class. In my class there were quite a few guys and gals who only wanted to compete and not judge. They learned some stuff, I believe, and at my class we all really learned what bad BBQ is/was. We were all hoping for some good Q being at a "judging class/seminar". I was sooo disappointed and oh so wrong!

John

Derek,

If you can, I also think attending a judges class will be very enlightening.
I actually started as a judge and found it pecular as to how many class
attendees had no desire to judge but were team members trying to learn
more about the process. In our class, we had 2 teams make Q for us;
2 nationally competitive teams. I recall watching one particular group
of class attendees who were from one particular team. Apparently this
was extremely enlightening for them. They didnt say what they were
doing wrong, but apparently it was fairly ghastly. They'd been DAL (Dead
Ass Last) in a few comps; now they're doing fairly well...

You dont have to do this (attend a judging class), but it may be
helpful and enlightening. However, frankly, you'll learn more in your
first comp or two than you could ever imagine.

BTW, welcome, and GOOD LUCK! Break a leg!

:thumb:

Derek
04-09-2010, 08:12 PM
Derek,

If you can, I also think attending a judges class will be very enlightening.
I actually started as a judge and found it pecular as to how many class
attendees had no desire to judge but were team members trying to learn
more about the process. In our class, we had 2 teams make Q for us;
2 nationally competitive teams. I recall watching one particular group
of class attendees who were from one particular team. Apparently this
was extremely enlightening for them. They didnt say what they were
doing wrong, but apparently it was fairly ghastly. They'd been DAL (Dead
Ass Last) in a few comps; now they're doing fairly well...

You dont have to do this (attend a judging class), but it may be
helpful and enlightening. However, frankly, you'll learn more in your
first comp or two than you could ever imagine.

BTW, welcome, and GOOD LUCK! Break a leg!

:thumb:if I attend the judging class? I can learn and not sample right? ( sodium wise )>?

Thank you for the good luck

nthole
04-09-2010, 08:19 PM
Also...go get a muffin tin. Just sayin'! ;)

Seriously, just get to know the rules, search this forum on the word chicken, and cook a chit ton of chicken before hand and you'll do fine.

MilitantSquatter
04-09-2010, 08:27 PM
if I attend the judging class? I can learn and not sample right? ( sodium wise )>?

Thank you for the good luck

most likely...yes. If you're goal is to learn and see the process, then most likely.. yes but check with the class instructor to be sure. On the flip side, I wonder if they've ever given certification to someone who was unable to sample for dietary reasons.

Given you're dietary restrictions, hopefully you can cook with sodium if your goal is to do well over time. It may impact your ability to sample the product unless you'd intend on submitting low sodium seasoned meats to the judges.

Derek
04-09-2010, 08:50 PM
most likely...yes. If you're goal is to learn and see the process, then most likely.. yes but check with the class instructor to be sure. On the flip side, I wonder if they've ever given certification to someone who was unable to sample for dietary reasons.

Given you're dietary restrictions, hopefully you can cook with sodium if your goal is to do well over time. It may impact your ability to sample the product unless you'd intend on submitting low sodium seasoned meats to the judges.You have a point MS. but I will be adding salt for the judges on contest day!

Ron_L
04-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Ron, Sir. I take in all the information like a sponge, I've also been reading the links and send thtem to my Iphone. I know you think I'm an idiot some times in my posts because I can't remember tings right away but I will assure you I'll advice from these Gentlman.


I don't think you're an idiot! If I thought you were an idiot I would have taken advantage of the Ignore feature by now :becky:

I do think that you're excited over a new hobby and may need to slow down a little bit and think about what you are doing before diving in.

It's great that you are learning and enjoying yourself!

JohnJ
04-09-2010, 10:54 PM
It's great that you are learning and enjoying yourself!

Amen!

Derek
04-10-2010, 09:35 AM
I don't think you're an idiot! If I thought you were an idiot I would have taken advantage of the Ignore feature by now :becky:

I do think that you're excited over a new hobby and may need to slow down a little bit and think about what you are doing before diving in.

It's great that you are learning and enjoying yourself!That's true. And you seem like a cool dude. Well most every one does on this forum! I know I ask some stupid questions but I'm a complete newb in the grilling / smoking world. And the only way I can learn is by asking & doing. Thank you Ron!

Amen!I second that!

Divemaster
04-12-2010, 09:17 AM
All of the above advice is dead on. The one thing that I really think you need to remember is to just have fun.

A compitetion can get stressful and unless you take a moment and remember that it's really supposed to be fun, you're going to burn yourself out early. It's not hard to do. Last year I had our team back out of a couple of contests because we had forgotten the 'Fun Fact', now we are back on track.

You want a GC? Remember these simple rules.

1. Every one come back safe and unhurt?

2. Every one do their very best?

3. Every one have fun?

If you can answer yes to all three, you've already won!!! Any walks you get are just frosting on the cake.

Derek
04-12-2010, 10:14 AM
All of the above advice is dead on. The one thing that I really think you need to remember is to just have fun.

A compitetion can get stressful and unless you take a moment and remember that it's really supposed to be fun, you're going to burn yourself out early. It's not hard to do. Last year I had our team back out of a couple of contests because we had forgotten the 'Fun Fact', now we are back on track.

You want a GC? Remember these simple rules.

1. Every one come back safe and unhurt?

2. Every one do their very best?

3. Every one have fun?

If you can answer yes to all three, you've already won!!! Any walks you get are just frosting on the cake.Thank you Dive Matser we will. This is going to be fun but stressful :)

Captian Dan
04-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Hey Derek, you'll be fine. The eagle event is just a practice cook, and is geared to help folks learn a bit about comps without sending in the big check to enter. Yes we will all be trying to get ribbons/trophies, but we are there to reclaim friendships from previous comp seasons and make new friends as well as have as much fun as we can.You head cook Jerry is a very accomplished BBQ cook, he will help guide you, and so will the rest of us. Its a week and a half away. Just relax a bit, and read up on the chicken techniques here and other sites you belong to.
Chicken cooks the fastest and is first to turn in, you'll have plenty of time to get some hands on help at the event also.

Relax, or we'll hafta send you over to a "fast food " forum!:-D

You'll be fine, just don't over think it.:wink: