Newbie, rub recipe, heat problems, etc...

[skolek]

Well it's been about one month since I got by Brinkmann, i.e. the Bandera wannabe. I did the baffle mod. I also lined the bottom of the smoker box, with ceramic bricks. I also have some ceramic bricks under the ash pan.

So after 4 weeks of smoking, I'm looking towards other mods, because I am unimpressed with the cooking temperatures I am able to attain.

It seems as though too much heat is going to the top of the firebox, and not into the smoker. I've tried wrapping the top grate of the firebox in foil, to try and deflect the heat into the smoker box, however not much luck.

I'm only using wood chunks, chips and hardwood charcoal, NO KINGSFORD. I made it a rule, that pressed charcoal would never be used in this new smoker. However I did use pressed charcoal to cure it, but that's it.

It seems like I'm going though an entire 10Lbs bag of hardwood charcoal as well, is this normal?

So, any other ideas on deflecting the heat into the smoker chamber?

Second, I'm posting the loosely followed rib rub recipe for comments, I use, extra spicy is better!

First I start with the BBQ Bible basic rub: http://www.barbecuebible.com/featured/recipe/basic_barbecue_.php

Instead of regular paprika, I use Hungarian Hot Paprika. I do not use brown sugar, as I use BBQ sauce on my ribs towards the end. I use onion powder instead of flakes, and I use 2-3 TBPS of garlic powder and onion powder. On the cayenne, instead of 1 TSP, I use 1/4 cup. I do not use celery seeds. I also add 1/8 cup hot cumin. I also add 1/8 cup chili powder. I also add some oregano.

So actually it's pretty different, here goes:

1/4 cup coarse salt
1/4 cup Hot Hungarian Paprika
1/4 cup cayenne
1/8 cup hot cumin
1/8 cup chili powder
3 tablespoons garlic powder
3 tablespoons onion powder
3 tablespoons oregano
3 tablespoons black pepper

Now when I apply the rub, I first apply the ribs with straight cayenne, liberally sprinkle on, then I apply the rub, liberally sprinkling as well.

About 1/2-1 hour before the ribs are done, I brush on BBQ sauce. Usually just a cheap brand, nothing special, mostly K.C. Masterpiece. However I cut the K.C. Masterpiece with regular Tabasco. So if I'm using 1 cup of BBQ sauce, I'll cut it with 1/4 cup of Tabasco. I don't want to put too much Tabasco, that it's too watery and doesn't stick to the ribs, but enough to make it good and hot!

Now to add a twist, for those die hard heat freaks out there, I've been known to marinade the ribs for 24 hours in pure Tabasco, then the next day put the marinade into the water pan.

I welcome all comments!

Thanks,
Scott

[chad]

1. How hot are you expecting?
2. 10# of charcoal won't even make the Bandera burp!
3. Is the chimney wide open - never damper from the chimney - ever!
4. Remember you're doing 'que - the goal is usually to maintain a temp of 250 or lower for many hours.
5. RE: heat in the rub, etc. - sounds good! Seasoning the water won't seasont he meat but will make the backyared smell good!

I'm sure the Bandera owners will chime in shortly.

[skolek]

Well I'm only using the built-in thermometer, so it might not be right, but I can only get it up to 150 degrees or so. And yes, of course the chimney damper is always open wide, as is the firebox damper.

Oh, and I love smelling up the neighborhood! However I didn't know that what's in the water pan does nothing, thanks for the info though, I'll stop putting anything but water in it.

I've been smoking ribs now since 10:30 a.m., it's now 5:30 p.m. CST, and still not a real sign of the meat pulling from the bone. I'm giving them another hour, or less since it might storm soon. FYI, I'm in an eastern subrub of St. Paul, MN.

Thanks,
Scott

[chad]

Well, I'm surprised no one else has chimed in.

The door thermo is notoriouly inaccurate and naturally only reads at the door side of the cooker (duh!).

I didn't say NOT to put anything in the water pan -- just that it really doesn't do much for flavoring the meat -- that doesn't mean it's not useful in driving the neighbors nuts! Some of the guys boil brats in the water pan while 'queing other stuff and at that point some onions, garlic, etc. would help the brats.

Unless you just have too small a fire I can't imagine why you can't get 250 or so pretty easily! And yeah, you should be seeing the meat pulling from the ends of the bones around 3 hours or so.

Grab a bone and twist (that sounds RUDE doesn't it?) - if you're doing babybacks you might not see them pull back - it the bone twists loose they are done! :D
Good luck!

[skolek]

Hmmm... 250 or so pretty easily.... I imagine if I put in 5 lbs at a time of hardwood in, I could get that temp, but I'm probably using 2 lbs at a time? Is that too little?

Thanks,
Scott

[kcquer]

Scott, I usually start with a chimney of unlit kingsford in the fire box, dump in 1/2 chimney of lit lump and I have excess heat that I have to wait to cool down before I load up. Hope that gives you an idea of fuel quantity.

Sounds like you're in need of firebox mod to get heat up (directionally) in the box and air space under. The factory fire grate arrangement is crap, nearly impossible to generate good heat that way.

As for heat loss through the top of the fire box, check out this thread http://www.bandera-brethren.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1750

Hope some of this help a little.
scott

[bbqneo]

I finally got my SKD out of the box and fired it up for curing. I will tell you after using a LCD thermo probe hung about mid level, that the door thermometer is at least 80 degrees low. I was able to get the LCD to get up to 300-315 with charcoal (no idea how much but prob 10 lbs or less) and 3 small oak logs for my fireplace. I was curious if not getting the SKD up to 400 is a problem with my curing? Will try first cook next weekend and I will keep track of how I get to temp.

[BBQchef33]

Scott.. MY 2cents on the way.

#1. Are you using door thermo or probes dropped doen the chimney? door thermo can be way off, although i have not heard complaints about the brinkman thermo and I know mine is accurate.

#2. baffle baffle baffle.. and firegrate.. Required mods. Have you done them? The baffle makes the heat run under and around the waterpan instead of up the side wall above the firebox opening.

if not, at least do the heat shield by wrapping a shelf in foil and then cuttoin a fist size hole in the foil on the wall oppsite the firebox. Put that shield just above the last shel that you have food on. itt forces the hat to run around the chamber and not just up that side wall.

10lbs of hardwood lump would last me 8-10 hours at least. I use lump only to replenish the coalbed when needed and use mostly chunks and split logs.

babybacks should pull back at around 4 hours at 225-250. If they dont, give em time, they're done when theyre done, but i have seen the pullback be very subtle sometime. i wouldnt let them go over 5 hours though unless you were running cool..<215.

Water pan contents has been debated many times. I will throw in oinions, garlic, herbs, etc.. even fill it with beer.... I also gcook the brats in there... line the pan with foil, fill it with beer and onions, and some franks redhot.... then load the brats.. as they cook, just pull one off and put it on the bottom shelf for a few minutes... then spoon some of them onions and beer ontop of the brat... OMG, i think i need to make brats Tomorrow!

Dont know how much flavor seasoned water imparts. i thing it depends on what ya put in there. I threw a bunch of rosemary in there one time while making beer butt chickens and beside the yard smelling great, the chickens had a very obvious touch of rosemary flavor in them. So if ya like seasoning the water pan.. i say keep doing it.. i do it all the time. cant harm any.

[The_Kapn]

Scott,
I am also new here, but let me add this.
Door thermometer is nice to look at and I use it as a point of reference.
But, temps vary wildly and digitals are the only way to go!!!

As to start up time and temp--my first burn to season the Bandera was charcoal and it took forever! Like 2 hours to get up to temp.

For the next burns, I went "back to basics" and lit it like a fireplace. Paper under the fire (raised up on a shelf), kindling, larger kindling, and then real wood. Total time to cooking temps was (maybe) 20 minutes!! Added some Kingsford to help build a bed of coals quikly and then went to smokin'.

Keep practicin'--

TIM

[Arlin_MacRae]

Hey Scott.

I've got an NB 'Dera (made in USA - HUA!) and I ran it for ten hours today; the longest run since I bought it Easter weekend. My observations are as follows:

I started with a chimney of lump. I too refuse to put 'regular' charcoal in her. <grin>

Over the ten hours I ran 'er I kept the temperature (as reported by the door thermometer) very steady at around 200° - 210°. I used split logs of hickory that I bought in a 50 lb bag, and burned two at a time all day. How much of that bag did I use? ALL of it. And I burned the outer part of a mesquite log off towards the end... The stock 'Dera eats wood like a locomotive to keep that big chamber warm!

I did a nine pound brisket, a one pound fatty, and five pounds of 1/4-inch thick sliced jerky. Everything came out PERFECTLY.

In my drip pan I put an al-cheapo beer (Coors Light, I think) and some worsey sauce. Sometimes I'll put in some other aromatic liquid, but Dave Little is right: the heat from peppers is mostly wasted in the water.

I saw the need for the mod to redirect the heat out of the firebox. My jerky cooked way too fast on that side. I also raised up my wood grate by using three fire bricks, which gave me considerably more ash room, but kept the airway clear.

I'm a little trashed (Stone Brewing Co's Double Bastard Ale...) so I'm probably forgetting something or rambling, but I will say this:

The gents here KNOW THEIR SH...uh, which section is this in?...Oh--Q Talk...KNOW THEIR STUFF. Do a search, find the mods, ask the guys, and you'll be SET, mate.

Q till you die!

Arlin

[BigAl]

Scott,

Since you just bought your unit you may not want to hear this, go to the For Sale Forum and check out my Baskets, they were designed to resolve the fire box problems and yes it will work with your Brinkman but will cost an additional $10 because the brinkman needs a Leg Kit since it does not have rack shelf tabs in the fire box.

The Basket will hold about 10 lbs of Kingsford and I get 8-10 hr burns out of it. I have found that my Digital temp probes show an imediate Air Temp rise in the smoke chamber as soon as I close the top damper to 3/4.

And make a heat shield and use it.

[skolek]

BigAl, while I'd love to get your basket, I cannot justify the cost. What is it $95, then an additional $10 for the Brinkminn mod, then shipping? Just a bit much right now. Also I'm ordering splits today, and want to use mostly splits instead of chips/chunks, etc... to try and get the heat up there. It doesn't look like your basket would handle splits too well, but I guess I could just put them on top.

It seems from all the posts I've gotten that I really need a digitial thermometer, which I figured, so I'm getting one this week, before another smoking this weekend.

For you guys in the Minneapoils/St. Paul area, or whomever wants to pay the shipping, I found this site that delivers, to your door, BBQ wood: www.firewood.com. I've hard the hardest time finding splits anywhere in the Twin Cities, so I'm ordering from these guys today, and they deliver in 1 to 5 days, no shipping charges, I think, to the Twin Cities.

I'm going to be ordering Maple, Apple and Cherry wood. I used maple chips yesterday, and they, the ribs, were noticeably better tasting that hickory, once you get past the heat/spice of my rub... ;)

As for mods, I've done the baffle, and I've got a heat shield in the smoker, but still low temps. I'd like to do a firebox mod, i.e. the bricks, however I have no way of cutting bricks myself.

I'm thinking a piece of sheet metal across the top of the firebox might help? I notice a lot of smoke gets lost out of the firebox lid, and little cracks as well, which I do not like. I think eventually I may have to get BigAl's basket, but at nearly half the price of the entire Brinkmann smoker, it's a bit much to swallow right now.

Thanks,
Scott

[jt]

On Friday I smoked 32# of pork butts and a fatty. Started with a full chimney of Kingsford and 2 2"X2"X8" sticks of red oak. (I've built a couple barns with rough cut red oak from the Amish and I have all these 2X6's that are dried and warped so I use it for smokin wood). From then on I added 2-4 pieces of oak (a some of Kick's sugar maple chunks) every 30-45 min. for the rest of the day. 2 more times I added a half a chimney of Kingsford to replenish the coal bed.

I bought the 3" NB door thermo at Home Depot and got really lucky - it read 208* in boiling water so it's really close. For the first few hours of the cook I had a Taylor digital probe stuck thru a potato on the bottom shelf reading 221* and the door thermo (nicely lined up with the next shelf of butts) read 210*. I had no problems keeping these temps all day. Once the beast is up to temp it doesn't take much to keep it going EXCEPT when the coal bed goes away.

Scott - take your door thermo and put in a pot on the stove with water. When it starts boiling it should read approx 212*. Water boils at slightly different temps depending on sea level but it's not far off from there.

[BigAl]

BigAl, while I'd love to get your basket, I cannot justify the cost. What is it $95, then an additional $10 for the Brinkminn mod, It doesn't look like your basket would handle splits too well, but I guess I could just put them on top.

Thanks,
Scott

Just to clairfy, it is $85 for Bandera. $95 for Brinkman. Plus shipping. Over time, you can get money back on fuel savings.

You can use up to 15.5 inch long splits because both of the basket dividers lift out.

Or 13.75 inch chunks mixed in with the coals and dividers like in the pic on the left of this post.

[Heath]

Scott,

Welcome to the clan. I notice you said you had smoke coming out of all the cracks and openings in your unit. If you have a good draft going through the smoke chamber you shopuld not have ANY smoke coming out anywhere except the chimney. With a good updraft you can burn a fire close to the smokebox opening and, even with the firebox lid open, you should see the flames/smoke entering the chamber.

First thing I would suspect is you have too much of the airflow cut off going through the smoke chamber. Either with a shield or too much meat. Ever notice the threads when someone says they cured their pit and it had no problem getting up to 300 - 400 degrees? It's easy to do if you have nothing impeading the airflow. Then you load the succer up and it seams no matter how big a fire you make it won't heat up. Next time that happens to you try to move stuff out of the way and improve your airflow and see if it helps.

I use the "smoke coming out of the openings" to tell me I don't have a good airflow. Keep up the Q'n and have fun experimenting.

[skolek]

Well sometimes I get smoke coming out of the firebox damper as well, so maybe there is an airflow problem, but I wouldn't even know how to fix it? The only thing I could think of is to remove the baffle mod, or install a fan at the smoker chimney to pull air through. :)

It's surely not becuase of too much meat, as I'm only using two racks, never totally full. Should I maybe not use a water pan, could that be blocking airflow? What about the position of the meat, currently I'm using two racks, probably just above the water pan? So it would be water pan, two spaces, one rack, two or three space, then another rack. The top rack of meat would never be past the middle of the smoker.

Thanks,
Scott

[Heath]

Which end of the firebox is your fire? If it's close to the smokebox opening then you can get by with a smaller fire cause it goes into the smoke chamber. If it's out by the feed door you will be more prone to smoke coming out of the intake damper and you need a larger fire to overcome all the cooler air entering after the fire.

The other thing I've noticed is if I don't have the smokebox warmed up first I don't get a good updraft.

[skolek]

I try to place the fire as close to the smokebox as possible, or in the middle of the firebox.

Thanks,
Scott

[willkat98]

Scott
Can you move your beast?

Someone here realized they where not getting crossflow the way they were set up, move the beast around, and they're problem was solved.

I live with an open SW clearing, so airflw is never a problem (usually too much of a problem.) but I have NEVER had smoke, etc, coming out of the firebox Dampers.

Cuelio, how close to Scott are you? If you were just 2 more hours closer, I'd make a road trip to help you out.

"Honey, lets take a vacation to Mall of America"

[skolek]

Well sure my beast is mobile! :)

I live in a Townhouse, but I've had it on a sidewalk out my frontdoor, so it's got plenty of airflow. But possibly too much wind? It's been a bit breezy the last few times I've smoked, i.e. 5-10 MPH or a bit larger gusts at times. Not much I can do about mother nature, cause I've still got to Q! :>

Thanks,
Scott

[BBQchef33]

Heres more of my 2 cents.

First off......
C'mon AL, That basket ain't a cure for world hunger OR low temperatures. Its a version of LAZY-Q. Set and forget for a few hours. That aint what we're all about. Fire managment, Damper control, different fuels, stacking the chamber, thats what we're all about. Otherwise the whole concept of The brethren would be WSM or propane. Neither are bad, but set and forget, or lazy-q are exceptions for the majority of us. (not to say that the WSM got a workout this past nov-dec-jan.

Sorry, i digress, back to the post..

Scott, get some oak from that guy too... better for heat, use the others for flavor. i use oak as my heat source and cherry or apple as flavor words. Maple is kinda mild.

probes are definaetly a must. if anything because they can give uyou meat AND chamber temps. i usually use 3. One in the food and 2 placed in the chamber.

And for you new owners out there, we need to mention the biscuit test once in a while. Get your bandera up to temps. Open up a carton or 2 of pop-n-fresh biscuits, then place them around the chamber different heights, different places onthe racks. You tell your hot and cold spots by how the biscuits cook.... and ya get to eat the testing tools when your done.

[kcquer]

It's been a bit breezy the last few times I've smoked,

When the breeze gets just right (or wrong I guess) I get a bit of a back draft that causes a bit of smoke to come out the firebox door vents. Turning the beast 90* (or more) can make a world of difference. This time of year the breeze is mostly going to effect how your somker draws, when the temps begin to dip in the fall the cold wind will really steal the btu's and make maintaining temp a bitch. Use the fair weather to find spots to park your cooker where it is best protected from the wind.

[skolek]

Well damn, if I knew about the oak, I would have ordered some. My order is arriving today, and you have to order 150 lbs, or 3 sacks of 50 lbs at a time. As I previously mentioned, I will be getting a thermometer or two this week, before I smoke again next weekend.

The problem living in a townhouse, is I don't have much control over where to put my smoker. The other downside is that my townhouse faces west, where most of the wind blows from! DOH! I will try turning it 90 degress or so, next time to see if it helps any.

By the way, I used maple chips this past weekend for ribs, and damn they were good, much better than hickory I think. Next I'll try cherry and apple.

Also, I've got a duck I'm going to smoke, any pointers/tips, etc... I've done duck before, and it came out great, just want to hear some tips from others out there.

Thanks,
Scott

[brdbbq]

, i.e. 5-10 MPH or a bit larger gusts at times


That's about a good fart in Texas.

[parrothead]

i use oak as my heat source and cherry or apple as flavor words.

Flavored words make for a tasty post.

[midnight]

You should very seldom have smoke coming out of your firebox door damper.

Living in South Dakota I know all about wind! Any wind under 20mph should be good to cook in. Try turning your smoker so the wind is blowing into the firebox. The extra air will cause your temps to raise but you should be able to close your dampers a little to control the heat.

Do you have a pic of your heat baffle? Maybe it is blocking too much heat/air from entering you smoke chamber. Can try adjusting it?

Duck is great in the smoker. Rub a sliced orange over the skin then sprinkle with seasonings. Place orange slices and onion slices inside duck. Cook for about 3 1/2 to 4 hours or until your digital probe tells you its done.

****caution Duck fat is VERY flamable*** Trust me on this!

[midnight]

skolek
The Minnesota in May barbecue contest is this weekend in Cambridge, MN. about 45 miles north of the cities. You should stop out friday night or saturday morning and check it out. Last year there was a team that used 2 banderas to cook with, I am sure they wouldn't mind showing you how they have thiers set up if they are there again.

I will be judging again this year otherwise I would have mine there and would offer to let you have a look.

[skolek]

I could take a picture of my baffle, however it's pretty close to the blueprint I downloaded. It comes to about 1/4" of touching the waterpan. I couldn't adjust it, instead I'd have to disassemble and make a new one.

Thanks,
Scott

[skolek]

Hmmm... I'll have to see about checking the contest out!

Thanks,
Scott

[Arlin_MacRae]

, i.e. 5-10 MPH or a bit larger gusts at times


That's about a good fart in Texas.

Same for Oklahoma! I can get a mean 15 mph swirl going in my back yard sometimes, which makes my smokers go crazy.

Scott, have you thought about building a little wind break or deflector? Anything that takes the directness off the wind would allow your unit to draw a little better.

[skolek]

No plans on a wind break or deflector yet. I think I'll try moving it into the wind, as suggested by midnight.

Thanks,
Scott