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View Full Version : Pork rule vs beef rule?


Mo-Dave
04-02-2010, 09:40 AM
Below is the rules for 2010 relating to pork and beef. The rule for pork is that it can not be seperated and returned to the cooker to finish cooking, but brisket says nothing about removing the point and returning it to the cooker for burnt ends, that is acceptable.

My question apparently is, why its ok for beef but not for pork especially now that so many cooks want that elusive money mussel? Do you agree with this rule as it stands?
Dave

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork shall
be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the
meat once separated be returned to a cooker.
BEEF BRISKET: May be whole brisket, flat, or point. Corned
beef is not allowed.

goodsmokebbq
04-02-2010, 09:47 AM
Good question...

Buster Dog BBQ
04-02-2010, 10:05 AM
Well, it keeps people from using pork tenderloins instead of money muscle. I don't know the full history but it seems that people had done that.

Mo-Dave
04-02-2010, 10:13 AM
Well, it keeps people from using pork tenderloins instead of money muscle. I don't know the full history but it seems that people had done that.

Well I would not have thought about that but I guess others may have.
Dave

Jacked UP BBQ
04-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Still don't understand how it keeps people from using tenderloins? If people want to cheat they can. My cooker has never been checked during a comp that I know of. If I wanted to be a sleezeball and throw a few tenderloins on I could and run in my trailer with them in a pan no one would know. I am not sure of the tenderlound advantage because a proper cooked butt is way better than any tederloin.
All I can say it is a dumb rule and they are keeping people from cooking the best product they can if returning a parted butt back to the cooker is in their process.

Alexa RnQ
04-02-2010, 10:53 AM
they are keeping people from cooking the best product they can
Really? How so?

SmokinOkie
04-02-2010, 10:57 AM
As Buster said, it goes back to history. Beef didn't have that issue because brisket is brisket.

Pork originally wasn't butt, it was pork.

It became refined into what it is today.

Ron_L
04-02-2010, 11:55 AM
:deadhorse:

PorkQPine
04-02-2010, 12:03 PM
That is why teams cook at least two pork butts, one for the money muscle and one for the rest of the turn-in since they have different temps at which they get pulled off the smoker.

Jacked UP BBQ
04-02-2010, 12:08 PM
Really? How so?

I'll keep the technique to myself, but there is an awesome technique involved, if allowed to do, My pork would be that much better.:tape: I cook to my best ability to the rule, if the rule was different I would not be limited. Having such a silly rule limits techinque, I bleieve that is why the rule was put into place because there were teams out there parting and kicking ass.

Jacked UP BBQ
04-02-2010, 12:09 PM
Since the rule clarification I have to cook four butts to get my pork box

Alexa RnQ
04-02-2010, 12:46 PM
Having such a silly rule limits techinque
So does the rule excluding propane and crockpots. :becky:

KC_Bobby
04-02-2010, 12:49 PM
I think baseball's dropped 3rd strike rule is stupid, but because I feel that way that doesn't mean it should be changed.

I can someone understand the confusion on the rule since brisket is different, but if pork is allowed to go back on after parting, will ribs be next? How come no one ever compares pork to ribs instead of brisket?

It's not like teams that don't do as well in pork are at a disadvantage - everyone is playing by the same rules.

Buster Dog BBQ
04-02-2010, 01:15 PM
I'll keep the technique to myself, but there is an awesome technique involved, if allowed to do, My pork would be that much better.:tape: I cook to my best ability to the rule, if the rule was different I would not be limited. Having such a silly rule limits techinque, I bleieve that is why the rule was put into place because there were teams out there parting and kicking ass.
You can't butterfly it to only have a think piece separating the muscle from the butt?

Jorge
04-02-2010, 01:19 PM
You can't butterfly it to only have a think piece separating the muscle from the butt?

You can, and many folks have or do. Some will argue that it's against the spirit of the rule, but technically it's always been ruled legal as far as I know.

IF you have to move it at any time before removing it from the cooker it can be risky.

Mo-Dave
04-02-2010, 01:36 PM
I think baseball's dropped 3rd strike rule is stupid, but because I feel that way that doesn't mean it should be changed.

I can someone understand the confusion on the rule since brisket is different, but if pork is allowed to go back on after parting, will ribs be next? How come no one ever compares pork to ribs instead of brisket?

It's not like teams that don't do as well in pork are at a disadvantage - everyone is playing by the same rules.

Not sure what could be done different with ribs in relation to putting butts and brisket points back on. I think everyone is on the same level playing field, with the rules handed them, just different levels of experience and somewhat the level of there pocket book. I was just curious as to the whys and what fores.
Dave

Lake Dogs
04-02-2010, 01:40 PM
Lesson Learned (a few months ago):

Unless you have the desire to be thrown in front of a bus, run't over, back'd over,
run't over again, back'd over again, demanded that you explain the earth and why
we exist upon it, never under any circumstances question the logic of a KCBS rule.

:doh:

Mo-Dave
04-02-2010, 01:51 PM
Ah logic that explains everything KCBS. :doh:
Dave

dmprantz
04-02-2010, 02:23 PM
What I find interesting is that when discussing garnish and propane, people invoke the name of Gary Wells and his vision and unknown reasons for doing things, thus they must always be done the same. No one ever seems to connect the dots that the pork rules which currently exist were not the original ones and have been ammended over time to accomodate changing views on BBQ and competition.

dmp

Mo-Dave
04-02-2010, 02:52 PM
So did the original pork rules allow parting or returning to finish cooking?
Dave

dmprantz
04-02-2010, 03:06 PM
I beliefe this (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65578&highlight=parted+pork+bod+brisket) is the thread which discusses the rule when it was enacted last year along with some history lessons about the KCBS "pork" category.

dmp

edit: Here (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=974770&postcount=50) is the specific post.

BigButzBBQ
04-02-2010, 03:31 PM
Whatever your view of the ruling is, I think at this point the best logic is going to be to cook multiple butts. One for each cut you are looking for. But, you would run the risk of screwing up one of the cuts by not cooking one of them correctly. Like someone said, the money you're willing to lay down in the end is going to hedge your bets towards putting out a better product to go into the box. But, one also risks being out a lot more money in the process as well.:confused:

Buster Dog BBQ
04-02-2010, 04:24 PM
You can, and many folks have or do. Some will argue that it's against the spirit of the rule, but technically it's always been ruled legal as far as I know.

IF you have to move it at any time before removing it from the cooker it can be risky.
I know. I was asking if he couldn't just butterfly it.

Jorge
04-02-2010, 04:32 PM
I know. I was asking if he couldn't just butterfly it.

gotcha, I misunderstood. Same risk sometimes, especially if you are cooking on some sort of vertical and want to flip the meat for any reason. If that thing separates, and it was small to begin with there is the issue of minimum weight.

Jacked UP BBQ
04-02-2010, 08:06 PM
The best part is I do not even use the money muscle!

Merl
04-02-2010, 08:14 PM
So did the original pork rules allow parting or returning to finish cooking?
Dave

Simple answer is: NO

The rule did not change. We had cooks making the rule into what it was not. (But that horse has also been beat to death.) Hence the rule was clarified but not changed.

Merl

MilitantSquatter
04-02-2010, 08:41 PM
I think baseball's dropped 3rd strike rule is stupid, but because I feel that way that doesn't mean it should be changed.

I can someone understand the confusion on the rule since brisket is different, but if pork is allowed to go back on after parting, will ribs be next? How come no one ever compares pork to ribs instead of brisket?

It's not like teams that don't do as well in pork are at a disadvantage - everyone is playing by the same rules.

I liked the dropped 3rd strike rule.. It requires the defensive team to execute fully to record an out.

Even MLB changes their rules... for over 100 years the rule allowed the struck-out batter to run to first until he reached the dugout. A few years ago, they re-wrote the rule is declared out as soon as he leaves the home plate circle.

So what does this have to do with the KCBS rule ? We'll it goes to show that rules do have potential to be changed... but it takes time or sometimes a controversial game.