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View Full Version : The new chicken failed time for new recipe


Jacked UP BBQ
03-23-2010, 10:26 PM
The skins got all screwed up and it was just a mess but here it is. We will try a new recipe for Salisbury and give an update after that. This was cooked perfectly and good flavor, not sure what happened at the tables, we tried some new stuff and that experiment failed. We are on a mission to perfect the chicken, here are the pics from Little Rock, now back to the drawing board.

What would you have gave this for appearance?

Jacked UP BBQ
03-23-2010, 10:28 PM
here are the pics

Jacked UP BBQ
03-23-2010, 10:29 PM
I still think the color is amazing, what do you think???

Jeff_in_KC
03-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Something about them bothers me. Can't put my finger on it though. Sauce seems heavy, almost like the thigh was dipped in wax or something that adheres to and shows every bump in the skins. I like your presentation layout and the uniform size of the pieces. Very nicely done there.

BurntFinger_Jason
03-23-2010, 11:28 PM
I agree with Jeff. They almost look like waxy leather, but that could very well be the photo. I'm not all that keen on the layout though. Seems like a lot of negative space that draws the eye away from the meat, which should be the obvious focal point of the box. Maybe try rotating the 2 corner pieces 45 degrees counter-clockwise so that they are perpendicular to the 4 running across the middle.

KC_Bobby
03-23-2010, 11:39 PM
Are they under a ruby reflection? I like the layout idea, but the color - not so much. Not sure if I think it looks like blood or they were soaked in cherry Kool-Aid.

Jeff_in_KC
03-23-2010, 11:45 PM
Like this, Jason?

KC_Bobby
03-23-2010, 11:54 PM
From a design perspective, a person's eye starts in the upper left and goes down to the lower right, then to the upper right before coming back to the center. So lining up in that manner may help the eye.

thenewguy
03-23-2010, 11:56 PM
I'm not falling in love with the layout of the food- it's distracting to me and definately doesn't make me want to dive in and start eating. Take it for what it's worth-the judges hated my chicken last year.

CivilWarBBQ
03-24-2010, 12:19 AM
From a design perspective, a person's eye starts in the upper left and goes down to the lower right, then to the upper right before coming back to the center. So lining up in that manner may help the eye.

But only in western lands. At a Chinese contest you may want to rethink! :laugh:

I agree the presentation is not really one of those "gotta get me some" boxes. The red color (annatto?) seems unnatural and the matte finish isn't as appealing as a good sheen.

My two cents, anyway.

swamprb
03-24-2010, 06:04 AM
My first reaction was when I saw the color, I wondered if you have a Red EZ Up Canopy?

The box looks nice, but sparse. I say that because I've gotten some negative feedback on some of my turn ins that showed too much turf.

8 on Appearance

Ron_L
03-24-2010, 06:39 AM
I'm looking at it on my iPhone so it's hard to see details, but I agree with the comments so far. I'd give it an 8.

BTW, I like Jeff's variation on the layout better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rich Parker
03-24-2010, 07:01 AM
I like the presentation but all the red looks a little weird. 7

White Dog BBQ
03-24-2010, 07:06 AM
Hey, that's a % sign -- isn't that marking? :-P

I agree on the "unnatural" look -- to me, it looks like it was deep fried.

Buster Dog BBQ
03-24-2010, 07:45 AM
I would take those any day of the week.

pat
03-24-2010, 07:55 AM
Great uniformity but the color seems a little off to me.

WannaBeBBQueen
03-24-2010, 07:58 AM
I have to agree, the skin looks waxy and the color is a little off but that maybe the picture it's self. I also agree about the placement, too much green showing...just my 2 cents...lol

So whatcha gonna try next?

ique
03-24-2010, 07:59 AM
8

I'm guessing though that appearance was not your problem. My advice is to never sacrifice texture or taste in an effort to boost appearance scores.

Lake Dogs
03-24-2010, 08:14 AM
For me, I like a reddish/brown chicken. I dont prefer the yellowish; they look
dead (IMHO). I like it. The arrangement, perhaps a little *cute* and takes away
a little (but very little). I'm thinking 8.

How'd they taste? Skin?

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 08:48 AM
I tried this once, I will never try it again, one of the posts hit the it on the money of the coloring technique. I always here judges say they like nice uniform color, so I figured I would go with a ruby red and see what happens. The skins were bite through, but small because I never pinned them. I tried a complete different method here that probably no one has ever tried and it did not fair well. If anyone is interested that actually likes it pm me and I will send you the steps. There is an entire new chicken in the works that I will be practicing this weekend.

I do have one question since the entire board is not down with the color? What color should BBQ chicken be?? If the sauce is RED and smoke leaves a reddish color, I am curious what color you think chicken should be? ALso about the uniform color or dipped in wax, is it too perfect in color? I always here that color needs to be uniform, that is almost as uniform as it can get. I am really asking, not being defensive, I know it is hard to tell through posts.

Big Ugly's BBQ
03-24-2010, 09:03 AM
What you need is the new patented 3-Eyz Chicken Rub...........:doh::doh::doh:

For those of you who didn't hear about it, read about the "incident" on the 3-Eyz blog.

G$
03-24-2010, 09:22 AM
I like red chicken (and ribs). I often see brown or black chicken which doesn't look appetizing.

This, however, is too red. It is almost as though it was dyed and then wagner powerpainted to make sure no spots were missed.

(Still curious on the technique though, :-P )

Lake Dogs
03-24-2010, 09:25 AM
I'd attributed the profound red color a bit to the picture & lighting. If the color is
accurate, I agree with G$, almost too red and look dyed. It's a peculiar red color.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
03-24-2010, 09:50 AM
I like the color and the layout. judging the meat I would give it a solid 8+.

Scottie
03-24-2010, 10:23 AM
Matt, maybe a spritz of water or apple juice for the sheen?

As for color, I would shoot for a more mahogany color... Not that your color looked bad, but realize what the majority of teams are turning in. When you see yours, the color really jumps out, just because it is not the 'norm'... Normal wins contests is what I have found...

big brother smoke
03-24-2010, 10:55 AM
Would Matt's hue of red work on pork or ribs?

Sorry about hi-jack, but, my curiosity has got the best of me.

Lake Dogs
03-24-2010, 11:02 AM
If that color/hue is correct.... I was trying to think: Where have I seen
that peculiar reddish/pink color before. Then, it hit me:

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/hance_patrick/457px-Tandoori_Chicken.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/hance_patrick/?action=view&current=457px-Tandoori_Chicken.jpg)

Tandoori Chicken.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 11:04 AM
Would Matt's hue of red work on pork or ribs?

Sorry about hi-jack, but, my curiosity has got the best of me.

When I get my ribs that color they kick arse.

Sawdustguy
03-24-2010, 01:07 PM
What were the taste scores? I doubt your presentation scores caused you to fail.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 01:25 PM
We enver got our score sheets, we stood there for a long time and never got anything.

pat
03-24-2010, 01:26 PM
Then, it hit me:

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/hance_patrick/457px-Tandoori_Chicken.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/hance_patrick/?action=view&current=457px-Tandoori_Chicken.jpg)

Tandoori Chicken.

You nailed it! That is exactly the color.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 01:32 PM
You guys are close, but that is not the way I colored it.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
03-24-2010, 01:41 PM
You guys are close, but that is not the way I colored it.

was it air brushed??

oh I know food grade wax....

I would love to see the scores if you ever get them..

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 01:56 PM
No it was not airbrushed, and no wax was used while making this perfect looking chicken.

Sawdustguy
03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
No it was not airbrushed, and no wax was used while making this perfect looking chicken.

Did you use the All New Shimmer? It's a floor wax, desert topping and bbq sauce.

Shimmer (http://www.hulu.com/watch/61320/saturday-night-live-shimmer-floor-wax)

Just Pulin' Pork
03-24-2010, 02:25 PM
They were soaked in cherry Kool-Aid?

Lake Dogs
03-24-2010, 02:47 PM
almost pure paprika

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 02:54 PM
No paprika, no kool aid. I used a secret ancient Recipe from my ancestors. I cannot tell anyone what it is. It is an ingredients only found on shelves in certain stores, it has really no flavor, but great color. It has been used in restaurant and other food service places across the world for added touch of color.

chambersuac
03-24-2010, 02:54 PM
I am NOT a competitior and have no experience making boxes - so take this fwiw - when I look at the layout, I see a big X - as in "no good - stay away - do not enter".
First thing that came to my mind - second was that they color looks a little dark. Again, what do I know???

chopshop
03-24-2010, 02:55 PM
matt forgot to mention that his wife owns a hair salon. i farkin new it. it was hair dye

Alexa RnQ
03-24-2010, 02:59 PM
It looks like Chinese takeout, only bigger pieces!

chopshop
03-24-2010, 03:12 PM
i think it looks good! but i guess thats why bejamin moore has 5000 colors. everyone has different taste

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 03:12 PM
I guess I will have to do what everyone else does from now on and get myself on the Roulette wheel to win. Smokin Guns, Fake Butter bath, and blues hog!

Sometimes I realize that I over create for BBQ comps. They would never appreciate the effort that went into this chicken!

I guess when you use ingredients that cookbook chefs never even heard of you have to expect when the judges open the box they would say wtf!

WannaBeBBQueen
03-24-2010, 03:33 PM
Looks like catalina dressing...lol...and never use fake butter!!

pahutchens
03-24-2010, 04:13 PM
I guess I will have to do what everyone else does from now on and get myself on the Roulette wheel to win. Smokin Guns, Fake Butter bath, and blues hog!

Sometimes I realize that I over create for BBQ comps. They would never appreciate the effort that went into this chicken!

I guess when you use ingredients that cookbook chefs never even heard of you have to expect when the judges open the box they would say wtf!

While the comments may seem discouraging, I appreciate that you are not cookie cutter Q. Though the perfection of the size/shape etc of the thighs is excellent (almost cookie cutter perfect).

If you can pull back just a little on the ingredient that provided the color it might be a winner. It seemed intense on my monitor
All the discussion on lay out assumes that the box is opened with the hinge at the back. IS that true or can it be opened by with the hinge to one side?

monty3777
03-24-2010, 04:22 PM
This, however, is too red. It is almost as though it was dyed and then wagner powerpainted to make sure no spots were missed.

(Still curious on the technique though, :-P )

If I had to bet money I would say that you re right on the money. These look like they were airbrushed - even if they weren't. You can really see the effect of that on the piece in the upper left hand corner. Despite the fact that the skin had pulled away from the edge - both the skin and the meat were the same color. However, I'm betting that this stuff would kill my chicken!

dreed
03-24-2010, 05:07 PM
don't write off the recipe after one comp, maybe they will like it in the northeast. I agree with color comments, try to lighten it up a bit. try it in Brooklyn.

The Giggler
03-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Matt - it definitely took some stones to try something different, especially in a field of champions with big money on the line. I like the trim, and have to second Divaherself's opinion that it looks like the red chinese "spareribs" you get on a buffet. You definitely can't argue the uniform presentation though.

pahutchens - I believe the standard presentation for a table captain is to open the clamshell up so the hinge would be towards the back of what the judges are scoring. At least that's how I was instructed to do it when table captain. (Hope that makes sense).

swamprb
03-24-2010, 06:50 PM
Hey Matt-

I'm not going to try to guess what ancestrial cultural off the shelf food coloring spice you used (like that awesome beta sauce you sent me!) but when you bite into a one of those thighs, does the coloring stay with you?
A few people mentioned it looked like Tandoori Chicken, but at home I've played around with Indian Vindaloo marinades on skewered meats, and though I liked them, people complained about whatever is in it that causes their lips and tounges to turn Purple! Does yours?

mjl
03-24-2010, 06:52 PM
No paprika, no kool aid. I used a secret ancient Recipe from my ancestors. I cannot tell anyone what it is. It is an ingredients only found on shelves in certain stores, it has really no flavor, but great color. It has been used in restaurant and other food service places across the world for added touch of color.


Did you use Annatto for the color?

ML

GWags
03-24-2010, 07:46 PM
I could see Saffron producing that color :confused:

falldownbbq
03-24-2010, 07:48 PM
i know i know!! if i guess it right matt do i win something?

ique
03-24-2010, 07:54 PM
ding ding ding

someone in this thread has it right

B C BBQ
03-24-2010, 08:13 PM
Annato seeds would produce that color after being ground into a powder or paste and then smeared on a substance, and it wouldn't offer any particular flavor either.

I also equate the color with "AH SO" brand chinese style marinade that some small chain of restaurants in the boston area uses on their chicken wings, I haven't tasted "AH SO" in a while but what I remember is I didn't like the flavor. The color is a little off putting on chicken but I like the color and flavor on Chinese spare ribs or Char Siu.

I prefer a more mahogany/amber/light burnt sienna color on the chicken skin... looks more natural. But, then again, I'm new...

BogsBBQ
03-24-2010, 08:20 PM
Funny you should mention Ah-so. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the picture. The next thing I thought was yuck Ah-so. Even though I know that's not what was used!

BurntFinger_Jason
03-24-2010, 08:43 PM
Like this, Jason?

From a design perspective, a person's eye starts in the upper left and goes down to the lower right, then to the upper right before coming back to the center. So lining up in that manner may help the eye.

Jeff - Yes, that is what I had in mind. But after looking at Bobby's, I prefer that direction a little better. Seems to flow a little better.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-24-2010, 08:52 PM
there have been two ingredients mentioned so far that brought the color to this point, saffron and annato were a key roll in my big balls chicken

B C BBQ
03-24-2010, 09:17 PM
I'm guessing there was significantly more annatto in the recipe with the color achieved. Saffron produces a vibrant yellow/gold color and the flavor of saffron in small quantities is enough to overwhelm many other flavors.

Was the flavor of saffron clearly evident in the chicken?

If you had left the saffron out the smoking process might have allowed the annatto coloring to be dulled a bit and quite possibly produce a more natural color.

I'd be curious to see those taste scores.

G$
03-24-2010, 09:29 PM
I was going to guress red bean curd.

Jeff_in_KC
03-24-2010, 09:32 PM
Holy crap!!! :shocked: Saffron and annato!!! :eek: That really IS carrying around some stones, there, Matt! I would have never in a million years thought to try such a thing.

Lake Dogs
03-25-2010, 07:59 AM
For originality and uniqueness, you definitely get the trophy!!!

topchefvt52
03-25-2010, 08:08 AM
I still think the color is amazing, what do you think???

Geez, I think they look pretty good. Have you tried a Jacardi on the skins?

ique
03-25-2010, 08:34 AM
I guess I will have to do what everyone else does from now on and get myself on the Roulette wheel to win. Smokin Guns, Fake Butter bath, and blues hog!

there have been two ingredients mentioned so far that brought the color to this point, saffron and annato were a key roll in my big balls chicken

Why not add a wasabi glaze while you are at it :twisted:

Saffron is really pushing it as a bbq ingredient. The choices are not only something crazy like saffron or the butter bath. Plenty of room in between for creativity.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Why not add a wasabi glaze while you are at it :twisted:

Saffron is really pushing it as a bbq ingredient. The choices are not only something crazy like saffron or the butter bath. Plenty of room in between for creativity.


OK you talked me into it. Salisbury, MD. I will be doing asain inspired chicken. Maybe some kind of asian BBQ.
As far as the saffron goes, it was in the brine, not in the cooking liquid, not really there for flavor, it was just part of the process, it was probably a waste of 10 bucks.

ique
03-25-2010, 09:25 AM
Maybe some kind of asian BBQ.


Good that will offset your strong brisket score and I'll have a chance to win. :-D

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 09:29 AM
I will bomb brisket in Salisbury don't worry, it has been too good to me.

U2CANQUE
03-25-2010, 09:58 AM
That is you brother, we have never ever questioned your stone worthiness......I like the thinking outside the box.......and I am more than sure that eventually you will set a new standard bar......:thumb:

B C BBQ
03-25-2010, 11:21 AM
If you are thinking the Indian side of asian I could hook you up with some killer McDonnells Curry sauce powder(the stuff they add water to and use for the gravy with chips an gravy in pubs).

I can't seem to get anyone on our team use it :)

goodsmokebbq
03-25-2010, 01:35 PM
I will bomb brisket in Salisbury don't worry, it has been too good to me.

You want to double down that $20 on who has the worst chicken? :sick:

Anti Jinx Bet, Yeah!

CivilWarBBQ
03-25-2010, 01:47 PM
I love asian flavors myself. When we first started on the circuit years back my cooking partner favored on flavors like soy, garlic and lime. It wasn't well received by the judges and we soon moved away from it towards more "middle of the road" profiles.

Unfortunately the mindset of judges now is focused on a specific type of taste even though the instructions are to judge it for what it is. It would be terrific if you could turn in Asian, Cuban and any of the other wonderful styles of World BBQ and win, but so far it only earns you low scores. Love seeing somebody willing to charge that hill though!

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 01:59 PM
We have done cuban style bbq for pork and turned it in, we have used cilantro based sauces, we have also done Asian a few times and really did OK. We will never win a KCBS with them, but have kicked ass with great flavors at backyard events. We are going to push the envelope in Salisbury, not sure how much, but if we bomb, I will post it!

BurntFinger_Jason
03-25-2010, 06:23 PM
OK you talked me into it. Salisbury, MD. I will be doing asain inspired chicken. Maybe some kind of asian BBQ.
As far as the saffron goes, it was in the brine, not in the cooking liquid, not really there for flavor, it was just part of the process, it was probably a waste of 10 bucks.


If all you're going for is color, you might try hitting your brine with a few drops of food coloring instead of using saffron. Good saffron is rather pricey. If you go with food coloring, then you've got red, green, yellow, and blue to play with. You could do Easter egg style chicken thighs!

Alexa RnQ
03-25-2010, 06:50 PM
You could do Easter egg style chicken thighs!


http://www.divaherself.com/easterthighs.jpg

U2CANQUE
03-25-2010, 07:39 PM
http://www.divaherself.com/easterthighs.jpg
now that is just plain old funny, I dont care who ya are......:clap2:

BurntFinger_Jason
03-25-2010, 08:14 PM
Bravo Diva, Bravo! :clap2:

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 09:01 PM
Nice Diva, that is funny chit!

swamprb
03-25-2010, 09:12 PM
Sweet Thai Chili Sauce makes a nice glaze, but the pepper flakes and garlic can be a distraction. But since you are an envelope pusher....

White Dog BBQ
03-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Not to be a contrarian, and I certainly don't have any room to compare my comp results, but I can't help but think of a story in Peace, Love & BBQ. Mike recounts a story of a team he knew on the circuit that seemed to have their chit together, but never seemed to get calls. One comp he stopped at their site, and they offered him a sample. He tried it and things didn't seem right. Mike asked them what they are using and the head cook told him that their secret ingredient was apple pie spice.

Mike's point was that some things just don't belong in BBQ. While I love the effort to try and push the envelope, I just don't think our sport can handle flavors far outside the standard profile. When looking at change, I think you need to look evolutionary, not revolutionary.

That all being said, you guys don't need my opinions; you've done a lot better than I have in the circuit!

KC_Bobby
03-25-2010, 11:18 PM
Would Easter Egg thighs be marking?