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toys4dlr
03-21-2010, 10:45 AM
Ok, I have been wondering what others consider when evaluating the cost vs. Potential ROI on a comp.

I know that the promoter is taking the risk as they have to guaranty a payout in advance of the event. But I have been noticing, as the size of the fields are growing the payout have not always been increasing too?

That is to say, if it is originally anounced as a $10,000 guaranty event, with the entry fee on average of 250. Now the event grew to 70, that is $17,500 in entry fees only. Then add in the sponsor money and such. I have seen that they stick with the original payout or close to it and it becomes not that great of a potential ROI.

I would assume that the Sponsors money should cover the overhead and the promoter should be able to make money too. Why do it if you can't make it a win-win situation. But I should have a shot at more that 60% of overall entry fees.

What have others been seeing or am I way out in left field????

Crash
03-22-2010, 12:52 AM
We never enter a contest expecting to make a ROI on the competiton side of things. We simply arent consistent enough to expect to make money competing. On the other hand, as you know Dave, out here in AZ we area allowed to do People's Choice (PC). If we see that a contest has the potential to attract a large crowd, we will attend expecting to make a large score just doing PC. Anything won after we make our PC $ is just icing on the cake.

As far as entry fees go, we would find it difficult to accept paying over $300 per contest.

That's just my take.

tmcmaster
03-22-2010, 01:54 AM
Well, there are a bunch of other ancillary fees for the promoter as well. Insurance, security, EMT's on site, the cost of power/utilities. It eats up profit quick.

Divemaster
03-22-2010, 10:26 AM
Also, remember that the amount announced on the KCBS site is the ‘Guaranteed’ minimum payout and the final amount can be more…

G$
03-22-2010, 10:49 AM
Also, remember that the amount announced on the KCBS site is the ĎGuaranteedí minimum payout and the final amount can be moreÖ

Dive, that is the point of the OP, I think.

In other words, what can be expected when more teams sign up than were "expected" or forecasted? (How much) should the prize pool grow above that stated guarantee? At the end of the day, what is the expected ratio of entries to payouts for you as a competitor?

I have been thinking about the answer, and I am not sure I know what my own opinion even is. On the surface, it seems we are to the point where 1:1 is reasonable for just about any contest, as a baseline.

toys4dlr
03-22-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks G$,

That is what I am trying to determine. I understand that the payout can not go down from what is submitted and it can go up. However, I am not seeing too much of the increase, when the event gains popularity.

Crash, I understand what you are saying about the PC, but that it seperate to the payout of the overall event and not available at all events. I was specifically wondering about the prize fund.

Sawdustguy
03-22-2010, 01:41 PM
Thanks G$,

That is what I am trying to determine. I understand that the payout can not go down from what is submitted and it can go up. However, I am not seeing too much of the increase, when the event gains popularity.

Crash, I understand what you are saying about the PC, but that it seperate to the payout of the overall event and not available at all events. I was specifically wondering about the prize fund.

I am being totally honest when I say you are sounding a little greedy. A contest that pays $10,000 with a $250 entry is not the norm. Entry fees of $150 to $225 with a payout of $5,000 to $7,000 here in the northeast is. There were a number of contests that didn't happen in the past few years simply because they weren't making money. There are also quite a few contests held in the name of a charity. In the case of a charitable contest put youself in the place of the charity. You advertise a contest with a purse of $10,000. You have more teams sign up and a have a chance to make a little more money for the charity. If you have the chance to make more money for a charity are you going to give it away to someone else? My bet is no.....

G$
03-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Put youself in place of a promoter. You advertise a contest with a purse of $10,000 and it is a charitable contest. You have more teams sign up and a have a chance to make a little more money for the charity. If you have the chance to make more money for a charity are you going to give it away to someone else? My bet is no.....

Guy,
It would probably even vary on a case by case basis. There are valid points, in each scenario, on both sides of the equation.

But here is a point blank question:

Would you sign up for a contest not funding the prize pool at a 1:1 ratio in the first place?

Would you expect a contest with a 'guranteed' 1:1 ratio, to keep that ratio if a significant increase in teams signed up over what was 'expected'?

(I'm not sure what the answers are, but it is a worthwhile question to think about)

Sawdustguy
03-22-2010, 02:18 PM
Guy,
It would probably even vary on a case by case basis. There are valid points, in each scenario, on both sides of the equation.

But here is a point blank question:

Would you sign up for a contest not funding the prize pool at a 1:1 ratio in the first place?

Would you expect a contest with a 'guranteed' 1:1 ratio, to keep that ratio if a significant increase in teams signed up over what was 'expected'?

(I'm not sure what the answers are, but it is a worthwhile question to think about)

Firstly, I edited my post while you were posting so it is a little different. Ok, I usually don't enter a contest worrying about the prize money. We are not the best cookers in the world (we only won a couple of RGC's and had a number of walks but have never won a GC). We enter contests that are geographically convienent and that were fun in the past. My brother and I compete as a family, and for us, it is truely a family event. Every one from our family that attends participates in one way or another. It is part social event. Because of why we cook, it is difficult to answer your question.

If we won a few contests my answer may be a bit different but not a lot. If we won I don't think that I we would enter contests with a better payout to begin with. A purse of $10,000 is not common here in the northeast. If the purse was advertised at $10,000 and a number of extra teams showed up I don't think I would expect the prize fund to be upped for that contest but I would expect next years contest to have a better prize fund. Again, this is honest speculation because of our viewpoint. If the contest was for charity, I could not care less because I would want to see the charity benefit as much as possible. I hope that answers your question.

The Pickled Pig
03-22-2010, 03:55 PM
I wish more contests would payout 100% of the entry fees in prizes. If they want to make money for the promoter or charity that's great, just don't do it on the backs of the cooks. As several contests have demonstrated, you can have a financially successful event and still return 100%+ entry fees in prize money.

For me personally, I don't care about the organizers' finances, whether for profit or not. With a few exceptions, potential prize money plays a part in forming our schedule. We couldn't have competed in nearly as many contests as we did the last few years without it.

Rich Parker
03-22-2010, 04:18 PM
Seems like the events that are ran by charities should give out receipts of donations if the entry fees exceed the payout.

CivilWarBBQ
03-22-2010, 04:50 PM
I wish more contests would payout 100% of the entry fees in prizes. If they want to make money for the promoter or charity that's great, just don't do it on the backs of the cooks. As several contests have demonstrated, you can have a financially successful event and still return 100%+ entry fees in prize money.

For me personally, I don't care about the organizers' finances, whether for profit or not. With a few exceptions, potential prize money plays a part in forming our schedule. We couldn't have competed in nearly as many contests as we did the last few years without it.


Yes there are a few contests that generate major revenue from public admission and sponsors, but these are in the minority. There are many other fund raising activities that require a great deal less work for a higher return.

The majority of BBQ competitions are glorified private parties for the participants. As the primary beneficiaries of the event, I strongly disagree with the sentiment that organizers "make money on the backs of the cooks". The truth is that we who cook and judge need the organizers a whole lot more than they need us.

Divemaster
03-23-2010, 09:26 AM
Should payouts be raised when the number of teams increases? It would be nice but Iím not expecting it.

Do I use the initial payout information to select comps? Normally, but not always. Example, there is one small comp this summer (Poorque (http://poorque.web.officelive.com/default.aspx)) that the entrance fee is $80 and payout is $70 (no, this isnít a misprint). Why would I go to this comp? Letís see, itís got a governors proclamation, itís not far from my house, and I figure that with such a low entrance fee, there are going to be a bunch of new teams that this is going to be their first comp and itís a chance for me to pay back for all of the help I got when I first started.

Trust me, the money is nice, but how many of us can afford to make it our job?

Alexa RnQ
03-23-2010, 09:50 AM
Conversely, if not many of us can make it our job, then how few of us can afford to fund our hobby exclusively out-of-pocket without considering the payout schedule?

Scottie
03-23-2010, 10:53 AM
Dive, you don't think it waters down the other WI contests? I know I'm not going to any of them... until after Labor Day.

Honestly, nothing against my friends cooking in WI this summer... But I really hope some backyarder wins the Jack draw...

Tarheel
03-23-2010, 12:07 PM
I cook them and I have got one that we help put on in Edenton, NC. From the oginizers side, money is hard to come by right now with the economy the way it is. We don't have that one sponsor that will put up big bucks so we have to get lots of smaller ones and there aren't many of them because they get hit by every other group looking for money too. We have set our prize money based on the number of teams we get. We have 3 levels that are based on the basic entry fee paid. The more teams the more the money goes up. We have to tell the KCBS a number so we use the minimum. We try to make up for it with good hospitality and lots of fun.

Roy:-D

paydabill
03-23-2010, 12:58 PM
I am not much on the ROI - becuase you cannot really account for sunk cost or put the value on what you would have done that weekend if you did not go to the contest.

For example - any friday that I am drinking beer and cooking beats a Friday at work.

However, I have noiticed that some contest are really getting strange on the equity of contest versus payout. For example - I know of an event that wants around $180 to enter but grand is only $600. If you did an ROI - you have to win grand and a couple of indivduals to break even for the weekend (of coarse depending on how much alcohol you consume at the event).

LOL

CivilWarBBQ
03-23-2010, 03:00 PM
If you did an ROI - you have to win grand and a couple of indivduals to break even for the weekend


That is a good point. If there is little chance of breaking even with a good performance we would pass on a contest unless there is some other compelling reason for doing it. (i.e. entertaining a sponsor, marketing or political motivation)

Divemaster
03-23-2010, 03:43 PM
Dive, you don't think it waters down the other WI contests? I know I'm not going to any of them... until after Labor Day.

Honestly, nothing against my friends cooking in WI this summer... But I really hope some backyarder wins the Jack draw...

Scottie, I'm not going to get into another discussion on your feelings over the validity of the Poorque competition having a draw to the Jack and an invite to the Royal even if there isn't any real prize money. They have the Governors Proclamation and it looks like they are going to have 15 teams required for first year comps. Thatís what it takes according to the KCBS rules. There is no statement in those rules that there be a minimum amount of prize money.

Thatís all Iím going to say on the subject, to be honest, I'm just not in the mood to get worked up over this with you.

Hope you enjoy the comps you're going to and I hope to see you in fall.

Scottie
03-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Who's getting worked up? If you believe in something, there is no need to get worked up. This discussion is about expected payout to cost... I added to your post. Nothing to get worked up over, that's for sure...

Sawdustguy
03-23-2010, 04:57 PM
Whats really funny is that the original poster is crabbing about a contest that costs $250 and has a payout of $10,000 when this years Harpoon Championship of New England pays $500 to the grilling Grand Champion and $1600 to the KCBS Grand Champion and the entry fee is $325 per team.

CajunSmoker
03-23-2010, 07:43 PM
I am not much on the ROI - becuase you cannot really account for sunk cost or put the value on what you would have done that weekend if you did not go to the contest.

For example - any friday that I am drinking beer and cooking beats a Friday at work.

However, I have noiticed that some contest are really getting strange on the equity of contest versus payout. For example - I know of an event that wants around $180 to enter but grand is only $600. If you did an ROI - you have to win grand and a couple of indivduals to break even for the weekend (of coarse depending on how much alcohol you consume at the event).

LOL

My friend that is a classic quote:thumb::clap2::clap2:

CajunSmoker
03-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Whats really funny is that the original poster is crabbing about a contest that costs $250 and has a payout of $10,000 when this years Harpoon Championship of New England pays $500 to the grilling Grand Champion and $1600 to the KCBS Grand Champion and the entry fee is $325 per team.


Yea Guy, but thats New England!! and we all know y'all can't cook BBQ:crazy:

{ducking and running mod}:behindsofa:

toys4dlr
03-23-2010, 10:46 PM
Whats really funny is that the original poster is crabbing about a contest that costs $250 and has a payout of $10,000 when this years Harpoon Championship of New England pays $500 to the grilling Grand Champion and $1600 to the KCBS Grand Champion and the entry fee is $325 per team.

Guy, this is the example of what I was talking about. Why would you cook in an event like that?? $325 to enter, another 500 or more for food and travel cost. you would have to take RGC to break even, does not make sense. How many teams are sign up?? What is the draw??

Either that, or it is so F-ing cold in NE that you guys will pay anything to stand next to fire. :-D

Maybe the event I mentioned is not a great example, but it is still simple math. Little over 18,000 in just entry money and only 55% returned to the competitors.

There have been other recent events that the average entry was 300, with 35 teams and the payout was $5,000 (that includes the cost of the trophies, so cash was less), so that is less than 50% returned to the prize pool. Even being close, that is not a good use of my time or money.

I was just trying to get a feel for what others think.

If it is just for the fun and friendship, great. That is a big part too!!

But if I am going to spend my hard earned dollars to compete, I have to analize the true costs and potential returns.

Sawdustguy
03-24-2010, 11:07 AM
Guy, this is the example of what I was talking about. Why would you cook in an event like that?? $325 to enter, another 500 or more for food and travel cost. you would have to take RGC to break even, does not make sense. How many teams are sign up?? What is the draw??

Either that, or it is so F-ing cold in NE that you guys will pay anything to stand next to fire. :-D

Maybe the event I mentioned is not a great example, but it is still simple math. Little over 18,000 in just entry money and only 55% returned to the competitors.

There have been other recent events that the average entry was 300, with 35 teams and the payout was $5,000 (that includes the cost of the trophies, so cash was less), so that is less than 50% returned to the prize pool. Even being close, that is not a good use of my time or money.

I was just trying to get a feel for what others think.

If it is just for the fun and friendship, great. That is a big part too!!

But if I am going to spend my hard earned dollars to compete, I have to analize the true costs and potential returns.

Another little tidbit about the Harpoon Championship of New England is that there is a huge waiting list of teams who want to compete there regardless of the payout.

The answer to that is alot of the contests here in the northeast are like that. It's either that or don't compete. It's nice to recieve some hard cash when you win but for some teams it's not all about the money. I don't know too many teams except for the big boys who can make a living out of this or even break even.

It is possible that you have to travel in order to participate in the higher paying contests. I guess you have to make a decision if it is worth persuing this. No promoter is getting rich from putting on contests and we certainly are not getting rich participating in them. I guess it depends on your motivation for competing.

lunchlady
03-24-2010, 05:31 PM
Yea Guy, but thats New England!! and we all know y'all can't cook BBQ:crazy:

{ducking and running mod}:behindsofa:

That's real nice... :mad2:
you must have missed some Jack results... since about the turn of this century.

I wanted to add a coupla things though.

When we started cooking we did not care at all about prize money. Just wanted to cook, help support the local contests, and maybe run along with the 'big boys'. Once we started to win a little, prize money still wasn't that big a deal. Honestly, I was happiest with the trophies. The first contest that we went to BECAUSE of the prize money... we actually won.
Go figure.
In New England the average entry fee is about $200, with the prize pools running in the vicinity of $5000-$7500, so I don't think people compete here to get rich. In fact, I know they don't.

I don't believe people organize contests to get rich either. At least I don't.
As an example - our grilling contest has an entry fee of $40. Yep... $40.
If you win first in a category, you get your $40 back. period.
If you win Grand, you get about $150.
But, if you come, you get to cook against some of the best IN THE WORLD (no joke), re-connect with friends, and help out a local Food Pantry.
What's better than that?
OK... winning 50K or 100K might be better than that, but THAT isnt happening HERE, or anywhere NEAR here.
We've gotta go pretty freakin' far from home to get prize pools that big.

I, for one, am sad that money is the determining factor for so many folks. Real BBQ (as I learned it) was never about money... it was about friends and family and how you could have some fun and feed them for little to NO money.

goodsmokebbq
03-24-2010, 05:57 PM
Guy, this is the example of what I was talking about. Why would you cook in an event like that?? $325 to enter, another 500 or more for food and travel cost. you would have to take RGC to break even, does not make sense. How many teams are sign up?? What is the draw??

Either that, or it is so F-ing cold in NE that you guys will pay anything to stand next to fire. :-D

Maybe the event I mentioned is not a great example, but it is still simple math. Little over 18,000 in just entry money and only 55% returned to the competitors.

There have been other recent events that the average entry was 300, with 35 teams and the payout was $5,000 (that includes the cost of the trophies, so cash was less), so that is less than 50% returned to the prize pool. Even being close, that is not a good use of my time or money.

I was just trying to get a feel for what others think.

If it is just for the fun and friendship, great. That is a big part too!!

But if I am going to spend my hard earned dollars to compete, I have to analize the true costs and potential returns.


Running a KCBS comp is not cheap (worth every penny if you ask me :-D) and there are many direct expenses beyond prize money. Sanctioning fees, rep expenses, trophies, judging supplies, etc... Then indirect costs like water, electric, ice, beer trailer, and Jack Daniels...

Jorge
03-25-2010, 08:55 AM
Yea Guy, but thats New England!! and we all know y'all can't cook BBQ:crazy:

{ducking and running mod}:behindsofa:

That's real nice... :mad2:
you must have missed some Jack results... since about the turn of this century.



Knowing Rodger, I can guarantee that he didn't intend for that to read the way it probably did to you:becky: I think it probably could have benefitted from this smiley ":-P". He's without question one of the nicest people I've ever met.

ique
03-25-2010, 09:22 AM
Guy, this is the example of what I was talking about. Why would you cook in an event like that?? $325 to enter, another 500 or more for food and travel cost. you would have to take RGC to break even, does not make sense. How many teams are sign up?? What is the draw??


The Harpoon contest has been on a waiting list for at least the past 5 seasons. So there are a lot of people that think its worth it.

One draw is all competitors can vend. The public loves it. Who wants to eat the vendors food... when people show up at a comp they want to eat the competitors food. As a result, a huge portion of the teams go home at least break even plus a couple cases of free beer in the trunk. Many are profitable without getting a call to the stage. The location, level of competition, fresh beer and camaraderie cannot be beat.

If its all about the money, then the Harpoon contest is not for you.

Jorge
03-25-2010, 09:31 AM
The Harpoon contest has been on a waiting list for at least the past 5 seasons. So there are a lot of people that think its worth it.

One draw is all competitors can vend. The public loves it. Who wants to eat the vendors food... when people show up at a comp they want to eat the competitors food. As a result, a huge portion of the teams go home at least break even plus a couple cases of free beer in the trunk. Many are profitable without getting a call to the stage. The location, level of competition, fresh beer and camaraderie cannot be beat.

If its all about the money, then the Harpoon contest is not for you.

Do they still have the same group of hacks doing the cook's dinner?:-P:wink:

Diva
03-25-2010, 09:37 AM
The Harpoon contest has been on a waiting list for at least the past 5 seasons. So there are a lot of people that think its worth it.

One draw is all competitors can vend. The public loves it. Who wants to eat the vendors food... when people show up at a comp they want to eat the competitors food. As a result, a huge portion of the teams go home at least break even plus a couple cases of free beer in the trunk. Many are profitable without getting a call to the stage. The location, level of competition, fresh beer and camaraderie cannot be beat.

If its all about the money, then the Harpoon contest is not for you.

Harpoon rocks! The Slabs spend a LOT of money to go and cook Harpoon and I think the only amount of money we've come out with is $100, plus some vending cash. It's about hanging out with our New England friends and I'll be honest....to drink all the Summer Ale! :thumb:

Scottie
03-25-2010, 10:08 AM
Harpoon rocks! The Slabs spend a LOT of money to go and cook Harpoon and I think the only amount of money we've come out with is $100, plus some vending cash. It's about hanging out with our New England friends and I'll be honest....to drink all the Summer Ale! :thumb:


I think I accomplished that.... :becky:

tony76248
03-25-2010, 10:22 AM
My thoughts are "To each their own" Everybody has a different reason for cooking. For some it is money, but let's face it. Nobody is making a good living at this without sponsorship. Then if you consider time is money, even if you win, it's all a wash. The milage alone is a kick in the nu*s.

I think we all do this because we enjoy the competition and the notoriety that comes with taking the walk.

I always look at the guaranteed prize money and assume that is what will be paid. In the end, do I wish there would be more, of course I do. We all love money, but when I schedule the cookoff, all I have to look at is the guaranteed payout.

Smokin Turkey
03-25-2010, 10:25 AM
I think I can answer this question as I am putting on a comp for my first time this year.

With the number of people competing, there is a set amount of costs which have been for the most part listed like the water, electric, and stuff. As the number of competitors rise, so do most of the expenses. Advertising is one of the biggest expanse of spending along with entertainment, awards, larger crews to supply and take care.. I mean when one goes up, the other does too. I had anticipated I wanted to have 10k in prizes but after seeing all involved, we are in the 5-6k range even with a wide range of sponsors. We will have a larger event next year which we've already started looking at and to be honest, it doesn't leave much more in the way of raising award funds or anything. KCBS still gets their cut, more reps means more fees, more competitors, more headaches,

My goal is just to break even, bring in teams to the area, have a great time and grow. If there is ever a surplus, it goes towards less money out of our pocket for the next event.

CajunSmoker
03-25-2010, 03:13 PM
I apologize! There was a thread last year where someone actually made that comment in earnest. I was just farkin wit youse guys;-). That's real nice... :mad2:
you must have missed some Jack results... since about the turn of this century.

I wanted to add a coupla things though.

When we started cooking we did not care at all about prize money. Just wanted to cook, help support the local contests, and maybe run along with the 'big boys'. Once we started to win a little, prize money still wasn't that big a deal. Honestly, I was happiest with the trophies. The first contest that we went to BECAUSE of the prize money... we actually won.
Go figure.
In New England the average entry fee is about $200, with the prize pools running in the vicinity of $5000-$7500, so I don't think people compete here to get rich. In fact, I know they don't.

I don't believe people organize contests to get rich either. At least I don't.
As an example - our grilling contest has an entry fee of $40. Yep... $40.
If you win first in a category, you get your $40 back. period.
If you win Grand, you get about $150.
But, if you come, you get to cook against some of the best IN THE WORLD (no joke), re-connect with friends, and help out a local Food Pantry.
What's better than that?
OK... winning 50K or 100K might be better than that, but THAT isnt happening HERE, or anywhere NEAR here.
We've gotta go pretty freakin' far from home to get prize pools that big.

I, for one, am sad that money is the determining factor for so many folks. Real BBQ (as I learned it) was never about money... it was about friends and family and how you could have some fun and feed them for little to NO money.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 03:19 PM
100 = 5k
150 = 7500
200 = 10k
225 = 12500
250 = 15000
etc etc

Jacked UP BBQ
03-25-2010, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=ique;1226434]

One draw is all competitors can vend. The public loves it. Who wants to eat the vendors food... when people show up at a comp they want to eat the competitors food.
QUOTE]

Damn Chris, that hurt!!!!!:mad2::becky:

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
03-25-2010, 03:37 PM
I WANT TO WIN A PLASTIC CHICKEN TROPHIE!!!!!just wanted to share that!!!!!

have a nice day!!!

Lakeside Smoker
03-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Guy, this is the example of what I was talking about. Why would you cook in an event like that?? $325 to enter, another 500 or more for food and travel cost. you would have to take RGC to break even, does not make sense. How many teams are sign up?? What is the draw??



Hassle free vending (you can make $1000 without even trying.)
An automatic for the Jack.
Free beer.
His and her showers.
Vermont in July.
This event has a great vibe. It's a giant party with huge crowds. (That might not be for everyone, but we like it!)
Free ice both days.
Trash removal. (they don't just say it, like most comps. They do it.)
Cooks dinner cooked by World Champion Ique.
Big sites (20 X 30 big for New England anyway)
Included power and water (I see some apps charging extra lately)
Very cool GC trophy.

These are a few of my reasons why I like the event. Your experience may differ. :-D

-Mike

Sawdustguy
03-25-2010, 06:32 PM
I guess Michelle just about summed up all on my feelings. There are also alot of intangibles gained that you can not put a price on. Because we compete, my nephew Kyle, who had no clear direction for his future, grew to love BBQ and competition, so much so, that he now attends Johnson and Wales University working towards a career in the culinary arts with the dream of opening his own BBQ resturant one day. We could come in dead ass last in every contest from now until forever and we would still consider ourselves ahead of the game for the good BBQ and competing did for my nephew Kyle.

G$
03-25-2010, 07:17 PM
I think the original intent/question in this thread got derailed a little bit in to a (valuable but different) question about non monetary reasons for cooking particular contests.

We can all agree that there are unique contest with unique opportunities that go beyond cash prizes. We can all agree putting together a contest takes A LOT of work and often A LOT of money.

Sawdustguy
03-25-2010, 08:29 PM
We can all agree that there are unique contest with unique opportunities that go beyond cash prizes. We can all agree putting together a contest takes A LOT of work and often A LOT of money.

I don't think either of those points were ever in question.

Coz
03-26-2010, 05:32 PM
Dive, you don't think it waters down the other WI contests? I know I'm not going to any of them... until after Labor Day.

Honestly, nothing against my friends cooking in WI this summer... But I really hope some backyarder wins the Jack draw...




Can we still be considered backyarders please?:wink::wink::wink::wink::wink: sides that you know the Jack draw is rigged. :-P:-P:-P

Swampy
03-27-2010, 01:19 PM
The Harpoon contest has been on a waiting list for at least the past 5 seasons. So there are a lot of people that think its worth it.

One draw is all competitors can vend. The public loves it. Who wants to eat the vendors food... when people show up at a comp they want to eat the competitors food. As a result, a huge portion of the teams go home at least break even plus a couple cases of free beer in the trunk. Many are profitable without getting a call to the stage. The location, level of competition, fresh beer and camaraderie cannot be beat.

If its all about the money, then the Harpoon contest is not for you.

Being a newb to both BBQing in general; not to mention the competitive circuit...can I ask as to just why competitor vending is allowed at this particular event(and not others?)...or are this state's vending laws a lot less restricitve than others?

The above poster's line of reasoning seems pretty valid to me; yet I have no idea what hoops a local county fair food vendor goes through to do the same thing or why a bbq competitor wouldn't fall under the same guidelines (if he was allowed to vend).

And to be honest...I always thought that if I ever went to a bbq competion or even local "Rib Fest" style competitive type event...that I'd get a chance to buy/sample something from every competitor in attendance (not true?).

Sorry if I'm off topic; but the above poster's example seemingly solved the OP's original issues with a pretty simple solution that benefits everybody.

Great site by the way and thanks for having me. :thumb:

Lake Dogs
03-27-2010, 02:21 PM
Swampy, in some areas it's a health code violation. Other competitions dont want
competitors to take business away from their paid vendors. Still others that allow
competitors to vend require additional monies & licensing. Most of the competitions
around my area will not allow competitors to sell or even give bbq away, much to
the disappointment of attendees. To address this situation, many organizers have
added a non-sanctioned event, ala. Peoples Choice, when event attendees get to
sample Q and vote for their favorite.

Swampy
03-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Sincere thanks for taking the time to school me on the different approaches, LDs. I can see now why an event like the Harpoon would not only be so popular with the fans but closer in many respects (and this is obviously a non-competitor talking) to what folks must enjoy in general about the whole BBQing experience.

Sanctioned competition; prize money returned (or not)...it would seem that a lot of potential enthusiasts are being effectively turned away after discovering that they cannot fully experience what you folks do so well at the highest level of your craft.

CivilWarBBQ
03-27-2010, 10:43 PM
Unfortunately, one of the biggest barriers is the fear of being sued. All it takes is one person to claim they were poisoned by bad food and a scummy lawyer to take the case and you are on the fast track to financial ruin. One of my good friends facing this exact scenario right now. Even though there is no basis to the plaintiff's claims it is costing him a fortune in legal fees to defend himself. And this was a health department inspected vending operation for CHARITY at a contest!

It's sad that the greed of a few people ruin things for everyone, but such is life in America today. Your best bet to score samples at a comp is to to exactly what you are doing - post on BBQ boards, get to know folks and they will invite you to their camp to eat your fill once they feel comfortable that you are not up to no good!

Swampy
03-28-2010, 01:21 AM
"...And this was a health department inspected vending operation for CHARITY at a contest!.. get to know folks and they will invite you to their camp to eat your fill once they feel comfortable that you are not up to no good!"

Understood and thanks.
Your reply (and LDs) certainly shed some light for this newb on the original topic. It's evidently a small wonder that any of these contests get off the ground at any price from just those two perspectives.