ok...bandara or wsm...cant find answers.

[olive123]

i have a ecb (cheap brinkmann water smoker) now. No mods and i can get a 215 to 249 for a good 2 hours.
Not bad!
I like the wsm but would rather have the bandara type.
Here is the questions.
1. will my q (especially chicken) come out just as jucy without a waterpan
or is the slow cook process the reason.
2. will i be able to use a minion method.
3. i DO NOT want to babysit a fire every 1/2 to hour. (with mods of course) will i be able to throw a butt and other stuff in there and go out with the kids for a couple hours and get back to a somewhat temp?

these are my major concerns. I figure i can use my ecb for chicken worse case scenario but is the bandara type cook as good (better?)
than wsm.
I have read all kinds of things about all smokers for weeks but want to know in my head that i get the grill for me.
thanks to all that are helping!

[willkat98]

I'll stab at this.

1. without the waterpan in a vertical, thats grilling. I've had fall apart chicken in all three of mine (ECB WSM and Dera) Never removed the water pan, would never want to. Its also a grease trap. Empty pan? I don't know. Water/Sand is a heat sink. I'm not one to fark with something if its not broken

2. Minion can be used in all three. In fact, that is the preferred method for WSM, or your temps will be Oven like 330 and up

3. Get a WSM. So many variables come into play with the Dera, wind, rain, wood, etc, that farking with it is half the battle (and half the fun). I don't go anywhere when on the Dera. But the WSM, set and forget. Watch the temps a bit, but it will slowly climb to temps (minion and all) then get stuck at around 230 for hours. Hell, I'd go to a movie while using the WSM.

So spend time with your kids and enjoy your Q. The Dera is an all day (and sometimes all night) affair.

just my .02

[Bigdog]

Olive,
You sound like a future WSM person. As Bill said, you can: "Set it, and forget It." The only way you would be happy as a Bandera owner is if you bought one of Bill Al's baskets, and that will run you about another $100 more.

[racer_81]

Olive,
You sound like a future WSM person. As Bill said, you can: "Set it, and forget It." The only way you would be happy as a Bandera owner is if you bought one of Bill Al's baskets, and that will run you about another $100 more.

Two things.

First, if you get a WSM, don't leave this group. Lots of good info applies across the breadth of smokers.

Two, you can be as happay as Al by eating grilled spam and drinking whatever Al's adult-beverage-of-the-day is.

:D

[BigAl]

Olive,
You sound like a future WSM person. As Bill said, you can: "Set it, and forget It." The only way you would be happy as a Bandera owner is if you bought one of Bill Al's baskets, and that will run you about another $100 more.

I don't have a WSM so I won't comment on it. I built the Bandera Basket and came up the the "heat shield" idea to solve many of the issues Bill spoke of in his post, cold wind is always an issue with any smoker.

Having solved those most of those issues, I like the Bandera for it's versitily like grill and smoke at same time and you can also heat/cook pots of stuff under the fire box lid. Overall, it fits my most of my needs. You can smoke big loads of meat or use the heat sheild to cook small loads and use a lot less fuel with the sheild and my basket.

No plans to "buy" any other smoker/grill, might build a dual type Bandera some day.

[Mark]

Brian & TK use this type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20726&item=2393669326&rd=1

[BigAl]

Brian & TK use this type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20726&item=2393669326&rd=1

Tell me it ain't so,,,,,,,,,GAS :?: :cry:

[brdbbq]

Brian & TK use this type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20726&item=2393669326&rd=1

I and TK's buddy do not TK. Anyway they don't show that Stainless model on there website. Mine ran ~$150

[BBQchef33]

Bills on target.. The biggest plus of the bandera is capacity, but the best you can do is 60-90 minutes if you use charcoal and and S technique or minion method. the WSM cant have the cpacity of the bandera, but will give you 8 hours unattended. There are other better quality(read more expensive) pits that will goive you 2-3 hours on small refuels, but nothing will beat a wsm for unattended burns. Alot of us have both, so no matter which way ya go, we can help.

[brdbbq]

And along come Mary

[BigAl]

Bills on target.. The biggest plus of the bandera is capacity, but the best you can do is 60-90 minutes if you use charcoal and and S technique or minion method. the WSM cant have the cpacity of the bandera, but will give you 8 hours unattended. There are other better quality(read more expensive) pits that will goive you 2-3 hours on small refuels, but nothing will beat a wsm for unattended burns. Alot of us have both, so no matter which way ya go, we can help.

Or you can get 8-10hrs unattened charcoal burn with my dual divider basket, see pics in the Modifications Photos and For Sale forum.

[Mark]

Brian & TK use this type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20726&item=2393669326&rd=1

Tell me it ain't so,,,,,,,,,GAS :?: :cry:

In my admittedly not so humble opinion, gas beats the **** out of coal; and coal's the main ingredient of mosts charcoal briquetts; including Kingsford.

Nothing beats all wood for quality (again, in my admittedly not so humble opinion).

So Al; how long can you go between refuels with your basket?

[Bigdog]

So Al; how long can you go between refuels with your basket?

Longer than he can go without refilling his gut.:lol:

[BigAl]

Brian & TK use this type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20726&item=2393669326&rd=1

Tell me it ain't so,,,,,,,,,GAS :?: :cry:

In my admittedly not so humble opinion, gas beats the **** out of coal; and coal's the main ingredient of mosts charcoal briquetts; including Kingsford.

Nothing beats all wood for quality (again, in my admittedly not so humble opinion).

So Al; how long can you go between refuels with your basket?

Mark, I get 8-10 hrs on a basket load of KingsFord here in CO.

I have not studied Charcoal processing in any detail, but the articles I have read say it is made from "burnt" hard wood, not "coal".

I am sure you are correct that pure wood is best, but I don't have access to resonable cost wood for qing.

I went to Kingsford's web site and got the info below:

http://www.kingsford.com/about/index.htm

And has been since the 1920s, when Henry Ford learned of a process for turning wood scraps from the production of Model T's into charcoal briquets. He built a charcoal plant, and the rest is history.

The Kingsford Company was formed when E.G. Kingsford, a relative of Ford's, brokered the site selection for Ford's new charcoal manufacturing plant. The company, originally called Ford Charcoal, was renamed Kingsford® Charcoal in his honor.

Today, the Kingsford Products Company remains the leading manufacturer of charcoal in the U.S. More than 1 million tons of wood scraps are converted into quality charcoal briquets every year.

Barbequing with charcoal has become immensely popular since Ford's time, and even today, more people prefer the taste of charcoal-grilled food to gas. *

Bring some of that deliciously smoky flavor home today and taste for yourself how superior charcoal-grilled foods can be. Kingsford products are available nationwide at grocery stores, mass retailers, drugstores, warehouse clubs and home centers.

*In a blind taste test sponsored by the Kingsford Company, 2 to 1 participants preferred the taste of charcoal-grilled food to gas. The research was conducted with 796 men and women ages 18-54 in Sacramento, Dallas, Tampa and Chicago in June 2000.

Participants were asked to compare chicken, steak or hamburgers cooked over Kingsford Charcoal to those same foods cooked over gas. Across all meat types, most people liked charcoal-grilled foods better. Tasters commented that meat grilled over charcoal “has a real barbecue flavor,” “has a smoky flavor” and “tastes like it was grilled over a real wood fire.”

[Bigdog]

*In a blind taste test sponsored by the Kingsford Company, 2 to 1 participants preferred the taste of charcoal-grilled food to gas. The research was conducted with 796 men and women ages 18-54 in Sacramento, Dallas, Tampa and Chicago in June 2000.

How did they find do many blind people to do the test? :lol:

[Mark]

Sorry, I meant to ask how long can you go between refuels with your basket using just wood chunks?

[gary]

I'll stab at this.

1. without the waterpan in a vertical, thats grilling. I've had fall apart chicken in all three of mine (ECB WSM and Dera) Never removed the water pan, would never want to. Its also a grease trap. Empty pan? I don't know. Water/Sand is a heat sink. I'm not one to fark with something if its not broken

2. Minion can be used in all three. In fact, that is the preferred method for WSM, or your temps will be Oven like 330 and up

3. Get a WSM. So many variables come into play with the Dera, wind, rain, wood, etc, that farking with it is half the battle (and half the fun). I don't go anywhere when on the Dera. But the WSM, set and forget. Watch the temps a bit, but it will slowly climb to temps (minion and all) then get stuck at around 230 for hours. Hell, I'd go to a movie while using the WSM.

So spend time with your kids and enjoy your Q. The Dera is an all day (and sometimes all night) affair.

just my .02


Bill you sound like me last sept at B2
Don't you just love the WSM...

Gary

[Mark]

Al:

Heres the link about coal in briquetts:
http://206.180.232.131/~brethren/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=425&highlight=coal

Note that Kingsford uses anthracite coal for long burning.. What they don't tell you about is the trace elements in anthracite coal. If you want to know about that, go to the tables at the end of this EPA document:
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch01/final/c01s02.pdf

[Solidkick]

If you want a "true" set it and forget it, then I would suggest the Meco electric. Same shape and capacity as a WSM, and as about as pricey. You only have to add water and wood chunks about every 6 hours, but you will have to wrap it in a blanket on windy or chilly days to keep your heat. Makes decent Q, but not as much fun as messing with a fire. A Meco electric was my first smoker, and still gets used about every 6 weeks or so.

http://www.meco.net/MECO/grills/Smokers.htm

[slat]

I can get a 2.5 to 3 hour burn in my Bandera. I of couse have lined my fire box with metal on the sides and have placed some at the end of the firebox closest to the chamber and at the end where the damper is I have a piece that is bent up to above the damper opening. this directs all air flow through the expanded metal grate. I then cover the opening with 1 layer of kingsford this is usually a six wide by seven deep. I place wood chunks or splits on rows 2 and 3 and again on 5 and six. I then build rows 1, 4 and 7 up to the top of the wood and then one more layer over everything. I dump a half a chimney of kingsford in the front of all this. Run damper and flue wide open till temp comes up then can close damper completely or slightly open. Once all has burned down just add wood as needed.

[BigAl]

Sorry, I meant to ask how long can you go between refuels with your basket using just wood chunks?

Don't know, never tried.....wood is toooooooo farking expensive here.

and I went to your first link and it just times out......you think they died from tooo much "coal"? Well, fark it, been using KingsFord since 1963 and no problems.....Have lived long enough anyway!

[BBQchef33]

I can get a 2.5 to 3 hour burn in my Bandera. I of couse have lined my fire box with metal on the sides and have placed some at the end of the firebox closest to the chamber and at the end where the damper is I have a piece that is bent up to above the damper opening. this directs all air flow through the expanded metal grate. I then cover the opening with 1 layer of kingsford this is usually a six wide by seven deep. I place wood chunks or splits on rows 2 and 3 and again on 5 and six. I then build rows 1, 4 and 7 up to the top of the wood and then one more layer over everything. I dump a half a chimney of kingsford in the front of all this. Run damper and flue wide open till temp comes up then can close damper completely or slightly open. Once all has burned down just add wood as needed.


sounds like we just replaced "the minion method" with the "Brother Slat method". I never did better than 4hrs with the minion method in the bandera and it always ran with high temps which was a pain in the ass to control. This may be worth a try.

[kcquer]

I can get a 2.5 to 3 hour burn in my Bandera. I of couse have lined my fire box with metal on the sides and have placed some at the end of the firebox closest to the chamber and at the end where the damper is I have a piece that is bent up to above the damper opening. this directs all air flow through the expanded metal grate. I then cover the opening with 1 layer of kingsford this is usually a six wide by seven deep. I place wood chunks or splits on rows 2 and 3 and again on 5 and six. I then build rows 1, 4 and 7 up to the top of the wood and then one more layer over everything. I dump a half a chimney of kingsford in the front of all this. Run damper and flue wide open till temp comes up then can close damper completely or slightly open. Once all has burned down just add wood as needed.

Slat, approx. how many kingsford deep does this initial load end up being? Would it be possible for you to post a pic of this before lighting? Thanks.