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ModelMaker
02-17-2010, 11:51 AM
It appears that rule 16 has been modified to allow the cook to present their ribs as they see fit (resemble a slab from the whole rack) vs six pieces that must at presentation look seperated.
There is no rule violation unless a judge does not have a rib to sample.
Me thinks this is good, and it appears the BOD listens and responds.
A tip of the BBQ hat to thee.



Rule 16
Each contestant must submit at least six (6) portions of meat in an approved container. Chicken, pork and brisket may be submitted chopped, pulled, sliced, or diced as the cook sees fit, as long as there is enough for six (6) judges. Ribs shall be turned in bone-in. Judges may not cut, slice, or shake apart to separate pieces. If there is not enough meat for each judge to sample, the shorted judge(s) will score a one (1) on all criteria, and the judges having samples will change the Appearance score to one (1).

The motion was seconded by Candy Weaver.

Vote:
11 yes, 0 no, 0 abstentions
The motion to renumber and modify passes.

Ed
ModelMaker

bigabyte
02-17-2010, 12:00 PM
Curious, what's your plan for fitting them in the box?

ModelMaker
02-17-2010, 12:06 PM
As a judge I am impressed when a box comes in and the ribs look like one piece from the whole rib. It means you are confident enough to not pick thru 6 different racks of ribs in hoping you can find 6 good ribs.
I guess thats my goal.
ModelMaker

bigabyte
02-17-2010, 12:08 PM
Gotcha! I mistook you to mean you wanted to turn in multiple bones per piece. My bad.

QN
02-17-2010, 12:24 PM
As a judge I am impressed when a box comes in and the ribs look like one piece from the whole rib. It means you are confident enough to not pick thru 6 different racks of ribs in hoping you can find 6 good ribs.
I guess thats my goal.
ModelMaker

So do you score up or down based on this criteria you have personally defined and added to the judging system? There is nothing in the KCBS judging guidelines for this. You are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, period. There is nothing stated anywhere about looking to see if all ribs came from the same slab.

Lake Dogs
02-17-2010, 01:26 PM
So do you score up or down based on this criteria you have personally defined and added to the judging system? There is nothing in the KCBS judging guidelines for this. You are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, period. There is nothing stated anywhere about looking to see if all ribs came from the same slab.

Appearance is largely what is appetizing to thee... Some may feel that
a "whole slab" is more appetizing than 6 riblets side by side... His/her
neighbor might feel differently and is more impressed with the riblets
showing smoke ring, whatever. Parts of it are very subjective. It's
appearance, afterall.

falldownbbq
02-17-2010, 01:30 PM
tyfjtjf

Mo-Dave
02-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Sorry I don't have the rules in front of me but I can't make out any real difference in the old rule from the new and I don't see where it said anything about turning in a whole slab from the same continues section. Me thinks the rule was reviewed and motion set forth to keep it unchanged but like I said I don't have the old copy in front of me so may be I missed something here.
Dave

Ford
02-17-2010, 01:48 PM
Sorry I don't have the rules in front of me but I can't make out any real difference in the old rule from the new and I don't see where it said anything about turning in a whole slab from the same continues section. Me thinks the rule was reviewed and motion set forth to keep it unchanged but like I said I don't have the old copy in front of me so may be I missed something here.
Dave
Identifyable was removed. They don't check for 6 until each judge takes a piece and that's after appearance is scored.

stlgreg
02-17-2010, 02:26 PM
So do you score up or down based on this criteria you have personally defined and added to the judging system? There is nothing in the KCBS judging guidelines for this. You are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, period. There is nothing stated anywhere about looking to see if all ribs came from the same slab.

Part of judging the appearance of the meat is judging the story the cook is telling you when he turns in the meat.

If the story he gets from the box is I am very proud of what is in my box and you can take any thing out of my box then thats the story he is getting.

I have been able to get a similar story when i was presented with a box of ribs once. I think there was 12 ribs in the box. I really felt the guy was telling me you can take anything you want. It doesnt matter.

Sometimes the story can really stick out and the box speaks to me and other times it doesnt. I wouldnt say I judge up or down per say but i am sure it figures in there somewhere.

I had someone last year turn in his rib box with the meat upside down. I really felt he was telling me the meat just didnt look good so he would turn them in upside down. It was a part of his story.

Mo-Dave
02-17-2010, 02:45 PM
Identifyable was removed. They don't check for 6 until each judge takes a piece and that's after appearance is scored.

So I guess you should make sure each rib is seperated by at least a viewable line or it can be a DQ or just given a 1 for appearance. I am only guessing here.
Dave

Jorge
02-17-2010, 02:52 PM
So I guess you should make sure each rib is seperated by at least a viewable line or it can be a DQ or just given a 1 for appearance. I am only guessing here.
Dave

No, that was the past rule. If judge 6 gets nothing, then there is action taken.

Alexa RnQ
02-17-2010, 02:55 PM
So I guess you should make sure each rib is seperated by at least a viewable line or it can be a DQ or just given a 1 for appearance. I am only guessing here.
Dave

Dave, what you're describing is what was required when the word "identifiable" was included. Running a toothpick between each rib ensured that on appearance, six separate pieces could be visually I.D.'d. The crux was that six pieces were determined on appearance, at the time the box was first opened.

Now that the word "identifiable" is removed, there's no longer a need to make each piece visually distinct, or out in plain view. As long as each judge can pick up a piece, it's all good. Now the distinction isn't made until a judge is shorted (whether by miscount or by pieces incompletely cut), in which case the judge with no sample puts 1s for all attributes, and those judges who got pieces must change their appearance scores to 1s.

ModelMaker
02-17-2010, 04:40 PM
So do you score up or down based on this criteria you have personally defined and added to the judging system? There is nothing in the KCBS judging guidelines for this. You are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, period. There is nothing stated anywhere about looking to see if all ribs came from the same slab.

I personally defined or added nothing to the rules. I said I was impressed by the look of a slab of ribs. It niether motivates me to increase or decrease the score no more so than if the bones were presented upside down.
I would give an appearance score on the box as it was presented.
The box with a even, smoothly placed group of ribs would score better than a handfull of ribs put in the box bone side up.
I have read, heard, and understand the rules as they have been given to me. Don't assume otherwise.
ModelMaker

Muzzlebrake
02-17-2010, 05:05 PM
When I first read the new rule my thoughts turned not to ribs but more towards those that turn in chopped or pulled meat, that it now longer has to be 6 seperate portions and can be one large portion, provided it is enough for 6 judges

Part of judging the appearance of the meat is judging the story the cook is telling you when he turns in the meat.

If the story he gets from the box is I am very proud of what is in my box and you can take any thing out of my box then thats the story he is getting.

I have been able to get a similar story when i was presented with a box of ribs once. I think there was 12 ribs in the box. I really felt the guy was telling me you can take anything you want. It doesn't matter.

Sometimes the story can really stick out and the box speaks to me and other times it doesnt. I wouldnt say I judge up or down per say but i am sure it figures in there somewhere.

I had someone last year turn in his rib box with the meat upside down. I really felt he was telling me the meat just didnt look good so he would turn them in upside down. It was a part of his story.

I have never heard it put quite like that before, interesting. Do you tend to score a more full box better than one only containing 6 pieces?

As a judge I am impressed when a box comes in and the ribs look like one piece from the whole rib. It means you are confident enough to not pick thru 6 different racks of ribs in hoping you can find 6 good ribs.
I guess thats my goal.
ModelMaker

even though you know they are cut you would rather they look like they aren't?

QN
02-17-2010, 05:32 PM
I would give an appearance score on the box as it was presented.

So you would score the box? You are supposed to score the meat. Or from another post, maybe the box is telling a story??? :roll:

ModelMaker
02-17-2010, 05:39 PM
So you would score the box? You are supposed to score the meat. Or from another post, maybe the box is telling a story??? :roll:


Yes that's correct. I am going to score the freakin styrofoam box ....
Did you just wake up today wanting to argue?
Ed

stlgreg
02-17-2010, 06:07 PM
I have never heard it put quite like that before, interesting. Do you tend to score a more full box better than one only containing 6 pieces?


not necessarily - when i look at a box it does tell me a story of a lot of things - most noteably what a cook things of his food. how much care was taken, how neat it is, does it look like something i really want to eat what is in there.

The garnish can make the meat look better. However, the meat is what i am judging.

Mo-Dave
02-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Dave, what you're describing is what was required when the word "identifiable" was included. Running a toothpick between each rib ensured that on appearance, six separate pieces could be visually I.D.'d. The crux was that six pieces were determined on appearance, at the time the box was first opened.

Now that the word "identifiable" is removed, there's no longer a need to make each piece visually distinct, or out in plain view. As long as each judge can pick up a piece, it's all good. Now the distinction isn't made until a judge is shorted (whether by miscount or by pieces incompletely cut), in which case the judge with no sample puts 1s for all attributes, and those judges who got pieces must change their appearance scores to 1s.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, it explained a lot.
Dave

HoDeDo
02-18-2010, 07:33 AM
So do you score up or down based on this criteria you have personally defined and added to the judging system? There is nothing in the KCBS judging guidelines for this. You are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, period. There is nothing stated anywhere about looking to see if all ribs came from the same slab.

We are talking appearance here QN, that is definitely in the criteria.

6 individual ribs that are not congruent, or jumbled into a box, may appear ok... But I totally get what he is saying... 6 ribs that are uniform in color(showing that some were not burnt, etc), size, and from the same slab of meat really takes it up a notch.

I WANT my appearance judged that way - If I am a good enough cook to be able to put all my ribs from one slab in the box, I want the judge to dig that!

As a cook that is always my goal - I hate having to "hollywood" ribs from two slabs into a box, I love to use a single slab. I am glad that a judge has stated that it adds value to the appearance. That means, the message I send when I present that way is getting through!

If I am looking at a new vette... do I want one door to be darker red than the rest, or the bumper to be new, but off a different car (Caddy XLR) -- heck no. It still looks nice... but it isnt the same level. All the parts from the same slab, together, definitely say something during appearance.

HoDeDo
02-18-2010, 07:47 AM
Thanks for clearing that up for me, it explained a lot.
Dave

As I mentioned in a previous post, I always try to get a single slab in the box...
Under the old rule (separate and identifiable) I was DQ'd once. I had the slab looking whole, and was told that because they could not identify all 6 separate pieces, I got a DQ in appearance. It becomes iffy based on the table/rep... right? If you see 6 bones, is it identifiable? or do you have to see 6 cuts, etc.

This tweak of the rule, makes it easier for the judges/reps to be consistent, and makes it consistent with the other meats.

Mo-Dave
02-18-2010, 11:01 AM
As I mentioned in a previous post, I always try to get a single slab in the box...
Under the old rule (separate and identifiable) I was DQ'd once. I had the slab looking whole, and was told that because they could not identify all 6 separate pieces, I got a DQ in appearance. It becomes iffy based on the table/rep... right? If you see 6 bones, is it identifiable? or do you have to see 6 cuts, etc.

This tweak of the rule, makes it easier for the judges/reps to be consistent, and makes it consistent with the other meats.

Well I totally agree with the rule change if this has been happening. As a CBJ and comp cook I have never given this a thought as a problem area in appearance, guess that is when comment cards would have been nice. I have never heard it mentioned in the class or at cooks or judge meetings that they must appear as at least 6 separate sections or be scored down. Only scored down later if they are not individual pieces in the box. In fact I have always shrived to make it appear as one slab taken from the same section, dang just realized that must be why I have never made Grand Champion, who knew. :roll:
Dave

Rookie'48
02-18-2010, 10:39 PM
Under the old rule (separate and identifiable) I was DQ'd once. I had the slab looking whole, and was told that because they could not identify all 6 separate pieces, I got a DQ in appearance.

That has been one of my major gripes durring the past. I'm very glad that this was changed. Now about that "parting" thing ...........

HoDeDo
02-18-2010, 11:27 PM
Now about that "parting" thing ...........

Dirty Farker.

DMDon
02-19-2010, 12:31 AM
I like to use 6 in a row from the same rack. I think it looks nicer. This was 3rd at teh Royal

ModelMaker
02-19-2010, 11:36 AM
I like to use 6 in a row from the same rack. I think it looks nicer. This was 3rd at teh Royal


Now dat der is what I'm talkin about...
ModelMaker