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View Full Version : Which event defines the True "World Champion" of competition BBQ?


BChawg
02-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Memphis in May?
The AR Invitational?
The AR Open?
The Jack?
The Texas Rodeo?
Team of The Year winner?
The Pickled Pigs Power rankings?
Total Prize Money won in a given year?
Pitmaster circuit winner?

PlowDoggleIQueEnvy?


Unfortunately, I don't have a dog in the fight on this one! Should be fun to get an overall opinion from the Band of Brethren!

Clark

Clark Kent Super Smokers

landarc
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
IMO, none of them do. You can't name a true World Champion unless there is one set of rules and one set of judges, in fact, I think there would have to be some sort of unified organization. Look at boxing, what a mess, sure there have been unified champions at times, there have also been mutiple champions at times. Too messy.

Sauced!
02-11-2010, 01:02 PM
A combined KCBS/MBN type event is about as close as you could get I think and there is only 1 of those I think (Illinois?).

Scottie
02-11-2010, 01:06 PM
clearly The Jack, as that is the only one that invites International Teams.

VGuilford
02-11-2010, 01:07 PM
I would consider The Jack a World Championship contest. because there are competitors from around the world there competing.

CivilWarBBQ
02-11-2010, 01:12 PM
I agree that The Jack is the closest thing to a true "world" championship because of the presence of teams from outside North America.

Sauced!
02-11-2010, 01:18 PM
But its not an open event. That is the one drawback.

VGuilford
02-11-2010, 01:23 PM
The Jack is consisted of Grand Champions from around the country and the world. Everyone there has to have won a contest in order to get a chance at a draw. Not sure how the world competitors are decided.

TN_BBQ
02-11-2010, 01:44 PM
IMO, none of them do. You can't name a true World Champion unless there is one set of rules and one set of judges, in fact, I think there would have to be some sort of unified organization. Look at boxing, what a mess, sure there have been unified champions at times, there have also been mutiple champions at times. Too messy.

I agree. No real way of crowning a World Champ.

Too messy.

Needless to say, if you win any of those events you are a world class cooker.

BChawg
02-11-2010, 02:29 PM
Only thing with the Jack is that alot of "Powerhouse" teams don't always make the weighted draw

Curious--how many international teams have placed top ten overall at the Jack? Has an international team ever won it?

Clark

Clark Kent

monty3777
02-11-2010, 02:40 PM
Personally, I would only call myself World Champion if I won the Jack. Clearly I'm not suggesting that it will happen - but that's how I see it.

With that said, I think the size of the AR puts it in a class all its own. Perhaps American Champion, or something like it.

Scottie
02-11-2010, 02:55 PM
Only thing with the Jack is that alot of "Powerhouse" teams don't always make the weighted draw

Curious--how many international teams have placed top ten overall at the Jack? Has an international team ever won it?

Clark

Clark Kent


Mad Cow won it like 6 years ago? They are from England...

Any team that makes the Jack is a champion. Because "powerhouse" teams don't make it, then I'd suggest they win more and get that auto... that is also part of the allure of the Jack...

Jacked UP BBQ
02-11-2010, 02:59 PM
I would say the Jack, because it is international, American Royal is exactly what the name says, American. I do not believe they are anyless prestigious just not the World Champion.

DawgPhan
02-11-2010, 03:03 PM
Well Memphis in May also calls itself the World Championship. I would say that the Jack and MIM are the 2 world championships and if someone referred to themselves as a world champion you would know they meant one of those 2 events. Those events are also probably the only 2 national events that carry any swagger outside of the BBQ world. Everyone knows about Memphis in May and the Jack.

Scottie
02-11-2010, 03:11 PM
Well Memphis in May also calls itself the World Championship. I would say that the Jack and MIM are the 2 world championships and if someone referred to themselves as a world champion you would know they meant one of those 2 events. Those events are also probably the only 2 national events that carry any swagger outside of the BBQ world. Everyone knows about Memphis in May and the Jack.

Houston also calls itself the World Championship. So if you want to argue with a Texan, go ahead. But my feeling is if you don't invite International Teams, I don't see how you can proclaim that you are the World Champion. And you can tell Myron I said that!!!! :twisted:

DawgPhan
02-11-2010, 03:38 PM
Houston also calls itself the World Championship. So if you want to argue with a Texan, go ahead. But my feeling is if you don't invite International Teams, I don't see how you can proclaim that you are the World Champion. And you can tell Myron I said that!!!! :twisted:


good point, I didn't know that Houston was called a World Championship.

motoeric
02-11-2010, 03:45 PM
Issue Two of Smoke Signals will be out next week and will feature an excellent article on the 'big four' competitions that are in contention for the title.

Eric

The Turk
02-11-2010, 05:08 PM
Well their all wrong - Its clearly Fire on Ice. What was the question again?

ThomEmery
02-11-2010, 05:12 PM
LOL Turk
It is kinda like the
NCAA Div one lots of ways to look at it

landarc
02-11-2010, 06:52 PM
So the World Champion Saints are not really the champions? What about the baseball and basketball World Champs? If there have to be international teams to be world champions, there is a problem.

jonboy
02-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Do you think that bbq could become an Olympic event?
I'm guessing it would have to be a summer event.
jon

ique
02-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Do you think that bbq could become an Olympic event?
I'm guessing it would have to be a summer event.
jon

We should start an Olympics with sports like comp bbq, chili, competitive eating etc.

Dale P
02-11-2010, 07:21 PM
My opinion is that The Jack is the one.

Alexa RnQ
02-11-2010, 07:22 PM
the World Champion Saints
You know, when you're old like me, that phrase right there pretty much signifies that we are in the End Times.

Jaybird
02-11-2010, 07:26 PM
The Jack.

DawgPhan
02-11-2010, 08:08 PM
So the World Champion Saints are not really the champions? What about the baseball and basketball World Champs? If there have to be international teams to be world champions, there is a problem.


both baseball and basketball have international teams, right? The Bluejays and the Raptors?

monty3777
02-11-2010, 08:09 PM
delete

ique
02-11-2010, 08:16 PM
both baseball and basketball have international teams, right? The Bluejays and the Raptors?

Also, all the best baseball players in the World - japan, canada, dominican etc. - play in MLB

SMITTYtheSMOKER
02-11-2010, 09:40 PM
It could be said the best American Team isn't allowed to compete at the Jack if they fail to make the draw. I feel the World's Best BBQ Team would be an American Team...therfor the AR would be a better (or just as good) indicator of the World's Best.

My 2˘

pigmaker23
02-11-2010, 10:04 PM
The Jack...:-P

moocow
02-11-2010, 10:08 PM
Well Memphis in May also calls itself the World Championship. I would say that the Jack and MIM are the 2 world championships and if someone referred to themselves as a world champion you would know they meant one of those 2 events. Those events are also probably the only 2 national events that carry any swagger outside of the BBQ world. Everyone knows about Memphis in May and the Jack.
I have seen many TV programs on the American Royal on the national TV networks. I think it would have to be included in the big ones. I will admit I am a bit of a homer as the Royal is right here in my back yard. There were a few international teams at the royal to.

TooSaucedToPork
02-11-2010, 11:31 PM
Its between the Jack, MIM, and the Royal

And for the International Arguement -

MIM has international teams cooking there...I've cooked next to them (Norwegian National BBQ Team)
the Irish team was also present...

Who has the called themselves the BBQ World Championship Contest the longest?

Memphis in May 1978 31 years
Jack 1988 21 years
Royal 1979 30 years

So if you go by who has been around longest its MIM

So I'd say its like wrestling...
WWF World Champion
WWE World Champion

Until there is 1 contest that everyone can enter, that travels from city to city every year, and that has no affiliations with any sponsoring organization, we will have to consider all three viable candidates

just my opinion :mrgreen:

KuyasKitchen
02-12-2010, 04:33 AM
I think it's very simple: no international teams, not crowning a World Champion.

The American Royal ... isn't that for American teams? Or, are there international teams at the open?

Lake Dogs
02-12-2010, 07:11 AM
Pondering..... BBQ as a new Olympic Event.....

JayAre
02-12-2010, 07:18 AM
A world championship(s) is the top achievement for any sport or contest. The title is usually awarded by contests, ranking systems, stature, ability, etc. This determines the best nation, team, individual (or other entity) in the world in a particular field. Certain sports do not have a world championship, instead they may organize a world cup, or they may organize both. Often, the use of the term cup or championship in this sense is just a choice of words. Some sports have multiple champions because of multiple organizations such as pro boxing and wrestling.
Certain sports do not have a world championships or a world cup as such, but may have one or several world champions. Professional boxing for example has several world champions at different weights, but each one of them is decided by a "title fight", not a tournament

My question is; if the nation of (fill in any country name here) decides they want to be included in the “world championships”, why can’t they have sanctioned contests in their own country and if they qualify, compete in the Jack or MIM, or TOY for that matter? If they chose not send a representative to the “World Championships” held in the USA, then they are not excluded from the WC, they just chose not to.

Having rambled on through all that….I’d say the Jack J

monty3777
02-12-2010, 08:27 AM
Who has the called themselves the BBQ World Championship Contest the longest?

Memphis in May 1978 31 years
Jack 1988 21 years
Royal 1979 30 years



I didn't know the American Royal was considered to be a World Championship - though I have heard it called the World Series of BBQ. Probably not a huge difference there, but I learned something - thanks!

BBQ_Mayor
02-12-2010, 08:38 AM
I think it's very simple: no international teams, not crowning a World Champion.

The American Royal ... isn't that for American teams? Or, are there international teams at the open?


The British BBQ Society (http://www.bbbqs.com/home.html) was at the Royal this year cooking the Invitational and the open. Just sayin'

Mike - CSBBBQ
02-12-2010, 09:58 AM
Being a rookie and just to add my .02 :rolleyes: We were lucky enought to win our only GC and go to both the AR and Jack in 2008. Both are highlights I will always remember. We were fortunate to get calls at the Invitation, the Open, and the Jack :-D :-D It was amazing and can't fathom what it would be like to be able to state we won any of them. To those who have won, you are among a select few, Congratuations and you are one of the very best teams in the World! Good Lord willing maybe we will get back someday :-D

Southern Home Boy
02-12-2010, 10:11 AM
Pondering..... BBQ as a new Olympic Event.....
You know...there IS a certain amount of athleticism involved in staying awake for 48 to 72 hours tending fires, trimming meat and making boxes. Not to mention the stamina required for all the drinking that accompanies said activities...We may be on to something.:lol:

ModelMaker
02-12-2010, 10:12 AM
All I know is if you listen in the wind carefully you can hear Scottie wispering,
"I'm a World Champion".
And pry rightfully so.
ModelMaker

Candy Sue
02-12-2010, 10:13 AM
Since H*LL has frozen over and the Saints won the Super Bowl, my opinion is the Jack, but if a GC has the moxie to call themselves World Champions, who am I to argue!

Scottie
02-12-2010, 10:22 AM
All I know is if you listen in the wind carefully you can hear Scottie wispering,
"I'm a World Champion".
And pry rightfully so.
ModelMaker


I never seem to whisper anything... Probably what gets me into trouble... :icon_shy You gotta admit, it's a nice title... I'd walk around in boxers if it drew attention to my cause... :eek:

CivilWarBBQ
02-12-2010, 10:25 AM
So I'd say its like wrestling...
WWF World Champion
WWE World Champion



Perhaps, except in BBQ, who is going to be the winner is not scripted before the event begins as it is in Pro Wrestling.

G$
02-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Tangent:

It would make a swell TV/Live spectacle to invite the following SIX individuals to a December/January competition in some sunny locale, (Orlando, Miami, San Diego, Phoenix) and compete for the World Championship / SuperBowl / World Cup of BBQ.


1) The AR Invitational
2) The AR Open
3) The Jack Invitational
4) Memphis in May
5) Houston Livestock Rodeo
6) KCBS Team of The Year winner

You'd have to subjectively pick a rule set, but I think KCBS style with maybe a 5th category of MBA style judging (require spares for that one) to help with TV footage. Tally the results and crown the undisputed World Champion.

In the off chance a team wins more than one of those 6, they take the slot of the highest event from the list above, and cede their second win to the second place team for that event.

Should be able to market it well enough and sell a tv special to secure some sponsorship for nice prizes....

:rolleyes:

monty3777
02-12-2010, 11:53 AM
Being a rookie and just to add my .02

I don't think taking first at the Jack in sauce qualifies you as a rookie:rolleyes::biggrin:

BChawg
02-12-2010, 12:56 PM
G$

Now that would be a show worth watching---I would replace the spares with Whole Hog for the MBN onsite portion.


Clark

ZILLA
02-12-2010, 01:25 PM
Memphis in May? No, because it's pork only right?
The AR Invitational? Maybe, if the rules we're modified
The AR Open? No
The Jack? No, it's unsanctioned and is run on a lottery system which leaves lots of qualified teams out.

The Texas Rodeo? No way in HELL! Cook one meat, unsanctioned, political, impossible to enter.....don't get me started

Team of The Year winner? No, only one sanctioning body is involved

The Pickled Pigs Power rankings? :confused:

Total Prize Money won in a given year? No, that doesn't mean anything.

Pitmaster circuit winner? No

PlowDoggleIQueEnvy? Who? 8)


Unfortunately, I don't have a dog in the fight on this one! Should be fun to get an overall opinion from the Band of Brethren!

Clark

Clark Kent Super Smokers

The only way would be to have nation wide qualifiers with combined rules and cross sanctioning in an all year contest until you have one team standing. Set it up by state, then region, and so on..

Unfortunately It will never happen.

KC_Bobby
02-12-2010, 01:27 PM
Tangent:

It would make a swell TV/Live spectacle to invite the following SIX individuals to a December/January competition in some sunny locale, (Orlando, Miami, San Diego, Phoenix) and compete for the World Championship / SuperBowl / World Cup of BBQ.


1) The AR Invitational
2) The AR Open
3) The Jack Invitational
4) Memphis in May
5) Houston Livestock Rodeo
6) KCBS Team of The Year winner

You'd have to subjectively pick a rule set, but I think KCBS style with maybe a 5th category of MBA style judging (require spares for that one) to help with TV footage. Tally the results and crown the undisputed World Champion.

In the off chance a team wins more than one of those 6, they take the slot of the highest event from the list above, and cede their second win to the second place team for that event.

Should be able to market it well enough and sell a tv special to secure some sponsorship for nice prizes....

:rolleyes:

G$

Now that would be a show worth watching---I would replace the spares with Whole Hog for the MBN onsite portion.


Clark

Me likey! :eusa_clap Who won the Houston Rodeo?


The thing is though ... the Jack already includes many of those mentioned above (AR Open, MIM, Houston). It doesn't automatically include the KCBS team of the year, but I'd guess more often then not that team is in the field.

ZILLA
02-12-2010, 01:33 PM
2009 Ronnie Wade
2008 Dennis May

G$
02-12-2010, 02:14 PM
G$

Now that would be a show worth watching---I would replace the spares with Whole Hog for the MBN onsite portion.


Clark

I hate to say it and may get raked over the pellets for mentioning it, but I think Whole Hog may be too much of an outlier to do. I'll still produce the show if that is the direction we want to go. :-P

G$
02-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Me likey! :eusa_clap Who won the Houston Rodeo?


The thing is though ... the Jack already includes many of those mentioned above (AR Open, MIM, Houston). It doesn't automatically include the KCBS team of the year, but I'd guess more often then not that team is in the field.

And the field of 64(+1) in College hoops takes the conference tourney champ even if they won the conference regular season title. No penalty for winning twice! Lots of holes in my idea, don't shoot anymore in it :-D

monty3777
02-12-2010, 04:52 PM
I think if one were to create a World Championship from scratch it would have to include whole hog. That's the one shortcoming of KCBS. There really needs to be a whole hog category.

TooSaucedToPork
02-12-2010, 11:14 PM
Perhaps, except in BBQ, who is going to be the winner is not scripted before the event begins as it is in Pro Wrestling.

WHAT!!!! Its scripted???? :mrgreen:

TooSaucedToPork
02-13-2010, 12:48 AM
Now this is probably an entirely new thread but...and this is all my opinion...

In order to have a true "World Champion" you would, number 1, have to have an unbiased way to choose who went to the show...
my guess - ONLY GC's from qualified contests can go
problem - what qualifies a contest

Meat -
This is a big one...all the BBQ societies and organizations cook differently AND with different catagories SO...
You would have to be able to have a choice of what to cook in the contest...which means
You would have to have:
A World Champion of: Pork Ribs, Whole Hog, Chicken, Brisket, Shoulder/ Butt

Because these are the BIG 5, how do you ask teams to cook in all 5?...MBN and MIM teams would have a distinct advantage due to Whole Hog not being a catagory in other contests, and how do you expect teams with smaller rigs to cook a whole hog. BUT you can't eliminate whole hog as a catagory because it is true old fashioned BBQ done the world over...VIRTUALLY ALL civilizations have roasted and smoked whole pigs. KCBS teams and Lone Star teams would have the advantage with Brisket b/c that is not a MBN or MIM catagory...but once again...True BBQ.

How would you judge...all blind? any onsite?
How would you settle GC? KCBS style by adding up total points in each catagory?

The problem is all the contests and organizations are different and there is no one contest that truely can be considered the 1 World Championship...so we have the enternal "what is the true World Championship arguement"

IMHO you have to settle with if you win the Jack, Royal, or MIM you are a World Champion...or simplier...

Have the 3 teams that GC these contests battle it out in the catagories that overlap

Ribs, Pork Shoulder or Butt, Chicken....
All BLIND
Rotate the location every year between Memphis, Lynchburg, and Kansas City

Thats the only way I can see crowning a true "World Champion"

But what do I know :-)

Mike - CSBBBQ
02-13-2010, 07:19 AM
I don't think taking first at the Jack in sauce qualifies you as a rookie:rolleyes::biggrin:

I wish Monty, it was 6th and to us it felt like first :-D We did win sauce at Lakeland the last 2 years :-D

monty3777
02-13-2010, 11:14 AM
I wish Monty, it was 6th and to us it felt like first :-D We did win sauce at Lakeland the last 2 years :-D

My bad - but a call at the Jack is a call at the Jack. And with that smoking Jambo, you are a freaking superstar, Mike!!:cool:

JD McGee
02-13-2010, 11:18 AM
The "Jack"...to me it is the ultimate goal...:cool:

Candy Sue
02-13-2010, 12:14 PM
One US contest hasn't been mentioned here, the Best of the Best in Douglas, GA. I have never attended this event, but it's my understanding that they invite the top 10 teams from all sanctioning bodies to compete. Still not International though.

tonto1117
02-13-2010, 02:48 PM
I never seem to whisper anything... Probably what gets me into trouble... :icon_shy You gotta admit, it's a nice title... I'd walk around in boxers if it drew attention to my cause... :eek:


Egods Man, please, no boxers.:tongue:

There were several international teams at the Royal.

Not sure I agree with the premise of the question. If we asked: "Who is a true BBQ Champion, anyone who won the GAB, Houston Livestock, the Jack, MIM or Best of the Best or the Royals has my full vote and is a Champion in my book.