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View Full Version : Rant: Seen more often in the Competition BBQ thread area


Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I have a series of questions that center around a personal rant, so forgive me. If it needs moving, I completely understand. However, I've noticed
quite a bit of this (below) and mostly in our beloved "Competition BBQ"
thread area:


Q1: When did this change from bbq-brethren to something like kcbs-wonk-or-get-the-fark-out?

I thought this was a place where brothers (and sisters) in BBQ could come together, exchange
ideas, talk about BBQ and life, and not chastise one another over different opinions. Maybe
I missed the memo... Yes, most of the competitors here compete in KCBS with fair frequency.
However, when did it cross into the YOU MUST LOVE EVERY ASPECT OF KCBS RULES or you have no
opinion here and you should just get the fark out of here? Just because
something is of the opinion that rule A should be changed doesn't mean
that they dont either like KCBS or enjoy cooking KCBS comps, does it?


Q2: When did it become a requirement to have a minimum of 400 KCBS competitions under your
belt before you're granted the right to have an idea and discuss it here?

See above. Mind you, there's a lot of credence to be placed on the words of someone who
has been there and done that a lot. A LOT of credence. However, somewhere along the way
it changed from this to a "You haven't competed enough (whatever enough is) to have an
opinion worthy of discussion".


Q3: When did it become acceptable that rather to engage in a discussion you immediately jump
into a "whose penis is larger" thing?

In discussions of this or that, many times it suddenly changes from an open honest discussion
about the merits of this and that, or not this and that, to "I'll see at you blah blah and I'll bet
you $100 I'll beat your azz". What the hell does that have to do with debating the merits
of something? Seriously. Ok, so what if guy 1 wins the $100? Did it change the debate? Reverse
it, what if guy #2 won. Anything changed? I dont see it. Please, y'all let know if I'm off
base on this.


Q4: When did it become acceptable to call other's a liar here?

I've seen it many times, from the "no pics, didn't happen" crap, to inuendo, then to straight
up "I dont believe you". Do we not realize that our individual experience might happen to
be different from the next guys (gals) experience? What?



I'm probably on my own personal Koom-Bye-Hyah mission, and I'll get off of the soap box. I
hope we can respect one another enough to respect differing opinions, whether they've cooked
in 1 cookoff, 50 cookoffs, or 500 cookoffs. Respect one another enough to say "I've been
cooking for 5 years and am of the opinion <differing from yours> blah blah blah because blah
blah blah." without serving up personal attacks. Saying stuff like "It's probably someone
who has cooked less than X cookoffs just wanting to blah blah blah" is a personal attack to
them and basically you're saying that if someone doesn't have as much experience as you that
their opinion is therefore moot, when all you've done is change from the debate to a personal
assault.


The "my way or the highway" is counter-productive. Telling folks "if you dont like it, why
dont you just create your own sanctioning body" serves only to drive them to compete in/with
those other sanctioning bodies and slowly, one by one, feather the cap of the other sanctioning
bodies. If you want to serve your favorite sanctioning body better, I'm of the opinion that
you should embrace the differing opinions (even if they differ from yours), debate the
pros and cons like adults, and write to your respective representative stating your opinion.
Anything else is unnecessary, unwarranted, and counter productive.



Just my humble opinion. If you're a Brethren, you're always welcome at our tent. I'll buy the first beer.


... something tells me that I'll regret this whole thread ...

... also, this isn't directed at any one person at all, even though someone
and I have danced a few of the dances I talk about above. I've seen
it happen to 20 or 30 folks around here.

Scottie
02-04-2010, 01:03 PM
:icon_shy

CajunSmoker
02-04-2010, 01:04 PM
:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy

G$
02-04-2010, 01:05 PM
I was going to respond with a few points, but then I saw Jorge was viewing the thread, so I figure I'll just let him reply and I can "Thanks" his post. :lol:

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 01:11 PM
I was going to respond with a few points, but then I saw Jorge was viewing the thread, so I figure I'll just let him reply and I can "Thanks" his post. :lol:

I like and I respect Jorge. If he wants/needs to nix this, I completely
understand.

However, as I entertain and an appreciate differing opinions, I wouldn't
mind reading your views / response.

Divemaster
02-04-2010, 01:16 PM
I too have seen the attacks...

While I would like to think that 'Cabin Feaver' has a lot to do with it, I sense that there is some other reason for all of the pissing matches...

My biggest fear is that this carries over into actual comps. What a sad world that would be if it did happen...

CajunSmoker
02-04-2010, 01:20 PM
My opinion is pretty short.

I joined KCBS knowing full well what the rules were. I cook following those rules to the best of my ability. I see no reason to bitch and moan about those rules.

I vote for the BOD member I want to see in and then I let the board make the rules.

Just my .02

Jorge
02-04-2010, 01:28 PM
I have a series of questions that center around a personal rant, so forgive me. If it needs moving, I completely understand. However, I've noticed
quite a bit of this (below) and mostly in our beloved "Competition BBQ"
thread area:


Q1: When did this change from bbq-brethren to something like kcbs-wonk-or-get-the-fark-out?

I thought this was a place where brothers (and sisters) in BBQ could come together, exchange
ideas, talk about BBQ and life, and not chastise one another over different opinions. Maybe
I missed the memo... Yes, most of the competitors here compete in KCBS with fair frequency.
However, when did it cross into the YOU MUST LOVE EVERY ASPECT OF KCBS RULES or you have no
opinion here and you should just get the fark out of here? Just because
something is of the opinion that rule A should be changed doesn't mean
that they dont either like KCBS or enjoy cooking KCBS comps, does it?


Q2: When did it become a requirement to have a minimum of 400 KCBS competitions under your
belt before you're granted the right to have an idea and discuss it here?

See above. Mind you, there's a lot of credence to be placed on the words of someone who
has been there and done that a lot. A LOT of credence. However, somewhere along the way
it changed from this to a "You haven't competed enough (whatever enough is) to have an
opinion worthy of discussion".


Q3: When did it become acceptable that rather to engage in a discussion you immediately jump
into a "whose penis is larger" thing?

In discussions of this or that, many times it suddenly changes from an open honest discussion
about the merits of this and that, or not this and that, to "I'll see at you blah blah and I'll bet
you $100 I'll beat your azz". What the hell does that have to do with debating the merits
of something? Seriously. Ok, so what if guy 1 wins the $100? Did it change the debate? Reverse
it, what if guy #2 won. Anything changed? I dont see it. Please, y'all let know if I'm off
base on this.


Q4: When did it become acceptable to call other's a liar here?

I've seen it many times, from the "no pics, didn't happen" crap, to inuendo, then to straight
up "I dont believe you". Do we not realize that our individual experience might happen to
be different from the next guys (gals) experience? What?



I'm probably on my own personal Koom-Bye-Hyah mission, and I'll get off of the soap box. I
hope we can respect one another enough to respect differing opinions, whether they've cooked
in 1 cookoff, 50 cookoffs, or 500 cookoffs. Respect one another enough to say "I've been
cooking for 5 years and am of the opinion <differing from yours> blah blah blah because blah
blah blah." without serving up personal attacks. Saying stuff like "It's probably someone
who has cooked less than X cookoffs just wanting to blah blah blah" is a personal attack to
them and basically you're saying that if someone doesn't have as much experience as you that
their opinion is therefore moot, when all you've done is change from the debate to a personal
assault.


The "my way or the highway" is counter-productive. Telling folks "if you dont like it, why
dont you just create your own sanctioning body" serves only to drive them to compete in/with
those other sanctioning bodies and slowly, one by one, feather the cap of the other sanctioning
bodies. If you want to serve your favorite sanctioning body better, I'm of the opinion that
you should embrace the differing opinions (even if they differ from yours), debate the
pros and cons like adults, and write to your respective representative stating your opinion.
Anything else is unnecessary, unwarranted, and counter productive.



Just my humble opinion. If you're a Brethren, you're always welcome at our tent. I'll buy the first beer.


... something tells me that I'll regret this whole thread ...

... also, this isn't directed at any one person at all, even though someone
and I have danced a few of the dances I talk about above. I've seen
it happen to 20 or 30 folks around here.

I'd hoped to have a few more days to think about this post, but....

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, as well as the right to express it. There is no prior restraint.

Everybody is also entitled to disagree, and point out that the opinion of others may be woefully misguided. In some cases the arguement/opinion they are addressing has become so repetitive over the years that it becomes frustrating to see someone introduce what they believe to be a new solution to an old problem and then argue to the death why their solution is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

More experienced cooks don't have a monopoly on being right. They do, however, have the experience to be right more often. That gives them credibility. The opinions of those cooks carry some additional weight with most folks. It's natural.

It's also common for someone to feel that their idea hasn't been given a fair discussion, when they are told that they are wrong. If an idea isn't embraced then sometimes it's just best to accept that fact and move on to another topic. Agree to disagree.

Respect and common courtesy are required, from all members. That isn't negotiable. I've had some private words with more than one member lately on that topic, in private.

That's the short version. I'll have something a little more thorough in a day or two.

Mod Note: This thread has the potential to be productive, as well as inflammatory. Anyone choosing to participate will act like an adult. There will be ZERO tolerance for baiting, name calling, or any other juvenile BS. There will be no warnings.

ique
02-04-2010, 01:37 PM
You are overreacting. Some of what you say does go on but its more like 5% of the posts, not 95%

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 01:42 PM
You are overreacting. Some of what you say does go on but its more like 5% of the posts, not 95%

I must've mis-wrote it. It doesn't happen 95% of the time. However,
when I see it, 95% of the time it's here, in "Competition BBQ". We don't
see it nearly as often in the other thread areas.

If I could change the title, it should read "Seen more often in the Competition BBQ thread area".

My bad.

G$
02-04-2010, 02:01 PM
I like and I respect Jorge. If he wants/needs to nix this, I completely understand.

However, as I entertain and an appreciate differing opinions, I wouldn't
mind reading your views / response.

Not nix, just present an even representation of the way things really are. My biggest issue is that your post, which does have some valid concerns at the heart of it, is also very ironic. Just a general guide, keep it all in perspective. Claiming 95% noise ratio in a tremendously useful forum is misguided at best.

You presented your concerns specifically, so I may as well throw in my two bits on each.

Q1: When did this change from bbq-brethren to something like kcbs-wonk-or-get-the-fark-out? I just don't see where this is coming from. Replace KCBS with FBA or IBCA or PNWBA. They're all discussed fairly, both pros and cons. Some topics are general, some are specific, but i certainly don't think there is a wonkish aspect to any.


Q2: When did it become a requirement to have a minimum of 400 KCBS competitions under your belt before you're granted the right to have an idea and discuss it here?
I happened to look back at all the KCBS results we competed in for the last few years, and I was shocked to find .... like 5 total contests!? I have plenty of ideas, and nobody has told me not to express them just because I don't have a ton of KCBS contests. Some ideas are good, some clearly are not, but personally, on many things in life I trust the people with more experience. If I don't get good inertia on a topic or idea, that tells me something.



Q3: When did it become acceptable that rather to engage in a discussion you immediately jump into a "whose penis is larger" thing? :icon_shy . I mean, really?


Q4: When did it become acceptable to call other's a liar here?

There has been no rule change on this, but the BOD votes on it yearly. Ok ok, I kid. Seriously though, it is not 'ok' to call anyone a liar here, just like it is not 'ok' to call anyone a liar in a friendly setting. People that make a habit of behaving that way tend to lose their credibility quickly in any case.

monty3777
02-04-2010, 02:07 PM
I have always enjoyed the intensity of the posts and threads that appear in the Comp section of the Brethren. I have gained insights into the innerworkings of KCBS that I wouldn't get anywhere else - and that's insight from folks who actually matter in the BBQ world. Sorry to say it, but there is a heirarchy in competition BBQ, that's what happens when competitions seperate winners from losers.

Let me also say that as far as I can see there is no serious attempt on the part of moderators to censor the posts here - that is not the case on other forums. People here are given latitude to say what needs to be said. I, for one, appreciate that freedom.

Jacked UP BBQ
02-04-2010, 02:12 PM
As long as it isn't personal, it is healthy competitive nature.

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 02:19 PM
G$, I miswrote the title, and would change it if I could. It should have read:

"Seen more often in the Competition BBQ thread area".

The 95% was intended to read 95% of the time when I see it, I see it here....
It's not 95%, nor even a 50% majority of the threads. However, when it happens,
it happens big.


Regarding the kcbs-wonk thing. I dont see this nearly as often as most of
the other stuff, but it does happen, directly or sometimes indirectly by way of
the "if you dont like KCBS, go elsewhere" thing... Perhaps we're just reading
different threads.

In essence, Jorge is saying exactly what I was trying to say. If I didnt state it
loudly enough, there is MUCH to be said for experience. Let me say it louder:
M U C H :-) <--- that's still not loud enough.

However, to my point: That's not what the people are saying. Rather than stating
their point(s) and positioning it like "I've been cooking for X years in many cookoffs
and my experience has be ............", they instead discount the other persons opinion
and make it personal to them saying something like "If you haven't cooked in X
cookoffs blah blah". Sometimes they're directing this towards folks that have cooked
in more cookoffs, so it's just that much more inflamatory <spelling>.

There is a profound difference in qualifying your opinion with your experience/years/success
vs. discounting the other persons opinion with your perception of their experience or
lack of it. They aren't the same, not even close. One is positive and directed towards
the debate. The latter is negative, has nothing to do with the debate, and can be
easily taken as a personal attack.

On a side note, I have apologized personally for bringing up an old and apparently
worn out subject (earlier, with greenery). I did NOT want to jump into that. I am
not that darned passionate about it one way or another. I have my opinion, and I'll
gladly keep it to myself where that is concerned. My apologies for bringing it up;
I've only been in Brethren since July...

This rant has nothing to do with whether I was right (in my opinion) or wrong, or
whether someone else's opinion holds more weight because if his/her experience.

My rant is about the treatment of brethren to brethren.



Monty,
> have always enjoyed the intensity of the posts and threads that appear in the
> Comp section of the Brethren. I have gained insights into the innerworkings
> of KCBS that I wouldn't get anywhere else - and that's insight from folks
> who actually matter in the BBQ world. Sorry to say it, but there is a heirarchy
> in competition BBQ, that's what happens when competitions seperate winners from losers.

I couldn't agree more, and please dont be sorry for stating truth. There is
a heirarchy, one that is earned and deserved. If I didnt state MUCH loud
enough earlier, then I misspoke (typed). However, that's not what I was
talking about. It's the treatment of one brethren to another that I'm referring,
regardless of the opinion, regardless of history, regardless of experience. It's
a one-on-one human thing.


> Let me also say that as far as I can see there is no serious attempt on the part
> of moderators to censor the posts here - that is not the case on other forums.
> People here are given latitude to say what needs to be said. I, for one, appreciate
> that freedom.

The moderators here are FABULOUS. Even when discussing *things* (I'll keep
those between them and myself) they have been open, honest, generous,
and understanding. Did I mention Helpful, Courteous, Kind, and Cheerful? They're
great.



Restated (because it's getting washed out in above):


My rant is about the treatment of brethren to brethren.

timzcardz
02-04-2010, 02:32 PM
For what little it is worth.



Communication is one of the most difficult things that we have to do.

Communication in the written word, without the benefit of tonal inflection/body language/gestures/facial expressions/etc., is extremely difficult.

The title of this thread is a perfect example of that. Writer meant one thing, several others interpretted it as something different.

What we have here is a failure to adequately communicate.

If you have been here more than a few minutes, then you already know what a great group this is.

Armed with this knowledge, when you see a post that twists your panties in a knot, it is predominantly safe to assume that there has been a miscommunication; either the writer poorly expressed themselves, or you have poorly interpretted what was written. Either way, chalk it up to miscommunication and move on.

Those infrequent times that the writer is out of line, are exactly what we have the best moderators on the web for. Let them do their job. Don't create more work for them.

G$
02-04-2010, 02:40 PM
My rant is about the treatment of brethren to brethren.

Amen

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 02:50 PM
For what little it is worth.



Communication is one of the most difficult things that we have to do.

Communication in the written word, without the benefit of tonal inflection/body language/gestures/facial expressions/etc., is extremely difficult.

The title of this thread is a perfect example of that. Writer meant one thing, several others interpretted it as something different.

What we have here is a failure to adequately communicate.

If you have been here more than a few minutes, then you already know what a great group this is.

Armed with this knowledge, when you see a post that twists your panties in a knot, it is predominantly safe to assume that there has been a miscommunication; either the writer poorly expressed themselves, or you have poorly interpretted what was written. Either way, chalk it up to miscommunication and move on.

Those infrequent times that the writer is out of line, are exactly what we have the best moderators on the web for. Let them do their job. Don't create more work for them.

Thanks, well stated. I personally take 100% responsibility for a badly
worded topic/title and the corresponding misunderstandings that it
has caused. It is not their fault; that's mine. I would gladly reword it.

On that note, anyone know of a way to edit a topic/title?

SmokeInDaEye
02-04-2010, 02:52 PM
As long as it isn't personal, it is healthy competitive nature.

Exactly. Many of us here are very competitive folks so sometimes it may just come across wrong. Hell, I'll tell Curt from iQue or whatever his damn name is that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and he's won many more times than me. But that's because we're friends and compete against each other.

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 02:58 PM
Exactly. Many of us here are very competitive folks so sometimes it may just come across wrong. Hell, I'll tell Curt from iQue or whatever his damn name is that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and he's won many more times than me. But that's because we're friends and compete against each other.

Did I mentioned that I happen to think that bbq-brethren IS the greatest
thing since sliced bread? It is, 'ya know.

The passion, the knowledge, the sharing, the comradere... Second to
none.

Kudos to all of the moderators.

Muzzlebrake
02-04-2010, 05:00 PM
the answer to every on of your questions is "some time around mid January".
All of your questions asked when? and at least in my experience thats when it seems to normally start. It seems to become more civil as we get into the BBQ season more but I think that over the winter it does seem to become a little more "intense".

It make sense to me that it happens more often in the Competition Threads because thats where the competitors are, I mean Wood pile is smart ash jokes and capers, Q talk is a recipe exchange and foodie pics gallery, whats there to argue about there? :biggrin:

I think also that as some of us stay around here longer we get to know each other more outside of this forum, we tend to be a little more understanding of each other. although some may come across a little brash in writing, in person that person is typically anything but. Except the mods of course, they really are ash holes for the most part and extremely Byzantine in their beliefs. (sorry had to be somewhat of a smart ash......:twisted:):biggrin:

BBQ Grail
02-04-2010, 05:14 PM
For what it's worth, from where I sit your original post seems to have quite a few of the characteristics you complain about...

Rants are hardly ever a good thing...

SmokeInDaEye
02-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Let me tell you a quick story. I used to have a dog named Tyler. Tyler was a good dog but sometimes he'd become angry if I didn't feed him on time. Barking, peeing on the rug, and so on. He'd get fed, then he'd curl up and go to sleep at my feet as sweet as could be. This section of the site reminds me a lot of Tyler, though he's since been sold to a farmer.

Southern Home Boy
02-04-2010, 05:27 PM
I don't mean to reduce the point of this thread - or my response to it - to a plattitude, but in all reality - at least IMHO - BBQ is a LOT like religion:


Everybody has their idea of what is right and thinks that anyone who doesn't agree is inherently wrong.
People who are the most passionate are often the least open-minded.
NO ONE agrees 100% with another person about every detail of the process, product, or any other aspect.
Any time you get those three things involved in a discussion things are going to get heated.

Now...here's the plattitude:
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.":wink:

Muzzlebrake
02-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Let me tell you a quick story. I used to have a dog named Tyler. Tyler was a good dog but sometimes he'd become angry if I didn't feed him on time. Barking, peeing on the rug, and so on. He'd get fed, then he'd curl up and go to sleep at my feet as sweet as could be. This section of the site reminds me a lot of Tyler, though he's since been sold to a farmer.

he didn't "go to live on a farm upstate" did he?

SmokeInDaEye
02-04-2010, 05:53 PM
he didn't "go to live on a farm upstate" did he?

How'd you know? Supposedly he's being used as a plow mule.

bbqbull
02-04-2010, 06:08 PM
Except the mods of course, they really are ash holes for the most part and extremely Byzantine in their beliefs. (sorry had to be somewhat of a smart ash......:twisted:):biggrin:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/byzantine

Ive been called every name on the planet but never a Byzantine...

I'm not sure what to think of it but rest assured we are still reading these posts here.

Lake Dogs
02-04-2010, 06:13 PM
For what it's worth, from where I sit your original post seems to have quite a few of the characteristics you complain about...

Rants are hardly ever a good thing...

While I'll grant you there is more than a little passion in there, I'm merely asking that
we treat each other with respect, not get nasty and unnecessarily
personal, and stay away from the insults.

I did use specific examples of what not to do and why, but I dont
think I was disrespectful, nasty, and tried to use examples without
being personal about it. Honestly, I've not experienced one of those
particular examples originally listed, but was tired of witnessing it
directed by brethren toward fellow brethren.

I was being as polite as I could be (IMHO) and yet address what I
think is a problem very directly, without whitewashing it.

Unless I'm wrong, we are bound by a common bond, the love of BBQ.
Whether we love eating it, smelling it, cooking it, competing in
competitions, we all love it for X reasons. I think we should respect
each other, respect the differences, be able to discuss those
differences of opinion, even passionately discuss them, without taking
it to different non-topic lengths by making personal insults/attacks.

Example: One of the earlier responders to this very thread said
something like he thought we shouldn't be beotching about stuff
and just compete. He stated his point and articulated it well. He
didnt questions anyones existence. He didnt call anyone a liar.
He didnt make it personal, nasty, slanderous, or insulting.
He merely thought we should shut-the-fark-up (my words here,
not his) and go on. That's fair, and good, I think I even sent it a
thumbs up.

I dont think that's too much to ask.

Respectfully submitted,

BBQchef33
02-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Except the mods of course, they really are ash holes for the most part and extremely Byzantine in their beliefs. (sorry had to be somewhat of a smart ash......:twisted:):biggrin:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/byzantine

Ive been called every name on the planet but never Byzantine...

I'm not sure what to think of it but rest assured we are still reading these posts here.



i think hes confusing us with the BBQ Illuminati. :eek:

Yakfishingfool
02-04-2010, 06:25 PM
your a BBQ flashlight?? Fleshlight??? Help!!!!!!

big brother smoke
02-04-2010, 06:39 PM
I can't wait til March! Folks will start acting like it is the night before Christmas again!

landarc
02-04-2010, 06:43 PM
Hey Yak, what is a Fleshlight?

I think everyone has been a little extra testy lately, I see more passion in this forum in terms of the rules and such, but, that is more than just being competitive, competing is pricey, I would hate to think I did my best and lost because of some archane rule or Byzantine (great word there) process that was not fair or properly explained.

Ford
02-04-2010, 07:07 PM
I can't wait til March! Folks will start acting like it is the night before Christmas again!
I missed Christmas but it's coming next week :biggrin::icon_devil:grin::lol:

big brother smoke
02-04-2010, 07:20 PM
I missed Christmas but it's coming next week :biggrin::icon_devil:grin::lol:

LOL, I too eagerly await your present :biggrin:

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 07:39 PM
I am not known as a tolerant person. (shocker I know). Over the years I have had to learn to be tolerant of others. Other peoples ideas, actions and words.

Years ago people lived in forced isolation (geography, culture, etc) from others.
In this day & time we have become a much more global society, and people have access to many different ideas, actions & words that are not similar to their own.

The internet, and in particular this forum, is populated with folks from many different backgrounds, cultures & locations.

What may seem very normal to some, seems downright odd or bizarre to others.

I couldn't tell you what the geographical make-up of this forum is, but it does seem to have a stronger representation from some parts of this great country of ours than others.

I love this place, I learn many different perspectives from many different people, and it does nothing but improve my Q & my tolerance for others' ideas. (there is such a thing as beef BBQ??? who knew?)

All that to say this: For all of the differences we have as people, culture & backgrounds, we share a much stronger bond of BBQ.

Sometimes we (read: me) forget that, and revert back to the ways we are familiar with (our comfort zone), but it takes a much stronger person to step outside their comfort zone and learn from others - whether you perceive them to have more or less experience than you or not.

I for one appreciate the open discussions that this forum provides, and if at times that causes a few eye rolls or hurt feelings, I am sure that is not anyone's (other than the one's the moderators properly & summarily execute) intent on this site, just a by-product of our differences.

To paraphrase Ted from Bill & Ted's excellent adventures: BBQ on Dudes!

BBQchef33
02-04-2010, 11:41 PM
Heres some observations from the 800lb gorilla. :mrgreen::cool: Looking at a whole bunch of something from a really high level.

first.. Everyone go read this (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14668). Its a 5 year old thread, and still holds true today. Unfortunately, some of it HAS seemed to have been forgotten at times.

someone asked, so heres where we have members coming from:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=1885

163 countries in the past 60 days. Yes, we are international.


Heres a snapshot of our US demographics. I'm not sure how they get this, but its from Quantcast.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=1886



so based on this info, its obvious, coming from 163 countries, all 50 states and all walks of life, we have varying cultures, beliefs, upbringings, and most important, personalities.... and that we have differences.

One thing I have learned overseeing this forum for 7 years is there is no way that at any given moment everyone will be happy.

Our post activity/by day(of counted forums)

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=1887

1000+ post per day. ( Moderators have to read all of this.)

With this level of activity, and interaction, its going to happen, someone is going to say something wrong, someone is going to misinterpret something, someone is going to type something they don't mean and someone is going to mean something and type something else. Thru all this, we have to decipher what one another is saying, with no smiles, no facial expression, and no intonation. Add to this equation 1000's of different personalities, and the simple fact that many of you have never met who your speaking to, and with that, all u have to go on is what is written. So theres a good chance, that somewhere, and some time, someone will be insulted, or someones hurt,or someones pissed off, but hopefully most are content and those folks will calm down anyone who is not.

In many of the conversations I have read, when I know the person(in real life), i can attach their personalities, facial expression, attitudes etc to what they are typing and its easy to say, this guy is NOT trying to piss me off. Everyone shoudl try that sometimes.

Among us we have EVERY personality trait in creation from the goofy or laid back, to the head strong and opinionated. Across this broad spectrum of personalities, we have one thing in common 99.9% of the time. No one is here to piss someone off, we are here to hang out with friends and shoot the chit about BBQ, their families, there crappy jobs, and their lives in general. But no one comes here with the intention of pissing on someones shoes. When anyone of you feels that the person your having an exchange with is doing this, put yourself in front of a pit, face to face, put a beverage in each of your hands, and think if you will have the same reaction standing eye to eye, when he saying this to u surrounded by a group of friends. Chances are hes not saying it to piss u off and just having a conversation. Not to say at times some of you DO cross the line, and get a little hot(or hard) headed, but hopefully a moderator(referee) is there to break it up.

In a way, I take Lake Dogs questions as accusations(dont run with that, its just in conversation). None of these things he specified are ALLOWED. We all know that. However, free flow if information(and opinions) are encouraged here. Recently, when conversations in various threads got heated or overly passionate, a moderator stepped in privately to the involved parties and had them take a breath. After that, the conversation was allowed to continue. We encourage these free exchanges and moderators will NEVER MODERATE ON CONTENT. Unlike other forums, our moderators look beyond content and subject matter. Whether we agree with what is said, or not, we will never stop a conversation because we dont like whats presented. We live by the rules put upon our membership, and as long as you abide by those rules, moderators will stand by. As soon as bad karma, flaming, personal attacks, etc come out, so does the moderating team. Until then, speak freely and openly.

So after feeling like i said alot of nothing, I am going to take lake dogs questions as rhetorical. We all know the answers. At the same time, I'm going to remind folks to reread that welcome thread. It seems that thru our growth at times, we forget who we are and the charter of this group. So heres a simple reminder.

We are an Online BBQ community dedicated to the teaching, promoting and growth of the Art of BBQ. We are here for both the backyard enthusiast and seasoned veteran. We have membership ranging from the Backyard to the American Royal. Our goal: To help anyone who comes in to make the best BBQ they ever produced, whether it be for your family, your friends or the KCBS judge, and at the same time, build lasting friendships and a camaraderie that makes us stand out from other internet forums.

kurtsara
02-05-2010, 06:53 AM
I must've mis-wrote it. It doesn't happen 95% of the time. However,
when I see it, 95% of the time it's here, in "Competition BBQ". We don't
see it nearly as often in the other thread areas.

If I could change the title, it should read "Seen more often in the Competition BBQ thread area".

My bad.

Thanks, well stated. I personally take 100% responsibility for a badly
worded topic/title and the corresponding misunderstandings that it
has caused. It is not their fault; that's mine. I would gladly reword it.

On that note, anyone know of a way to edit a topic/title?

Can't you click the edit button in your original post and then click go advanced and then change the title

BBQ Grail
02-05-2010, 07:10 AM
While I'll grant you there is more than a little passion in there, I'm merely asking that
we treat each other with respect, not get nasty and unnecessarily
personal, and stay away from the insults.

I did use specific examples of what not to do and why, but I dont
think I was disrespectful, nasty, and tried to use examples without
being personal about it. Honestly, I've not experienced one of those
particular examples originally listed, but was tired of witnessing it
directed by brethren toward fellow brethren.

I was being as polite as I could be (IMHO) and yet address what I
think is a problem very directly, without whitewashing it.

Unless I'm wrong, we are bound by a common bond, the love of BBQ.
Whether we love eating it, smelling it, cooking it, competing in
competitions, we all love it for X reasons. I think we should respect
each other, respect the differences, be able to discuss those
differences of opinion, even passionately discuss them, without taking
it to different non-topic lengths by making personal insults/attacks.

Example: One of the earlier responders to this very thread said
something like he thought we shouldn't be beotching about stuff
and just compete. He stated his point and articulated it well. He
didnt questions anyones existence. He didnt call anyone a liar.
He didnt make it personal, nasty, slanderous, or insulting.
He merely thought we should shut-the-fark-up (my words here,
not his) and go on. That's fair, and good, I think I even sent it a
thumbs up.

I dont think that's too much to ask.

Respectfully submitted,

Personal, nasty, sladerous or insulting...

All words that are really hard to actually determine on an internet forum. You decide if something is personal, nasty, slanderous or insulting. You can make the choice that they are or you can make the choice that they are not. Unless something is directed at me I choose to not worry about it.

I have a sales professional who works for me. He's rude to his fellow co-workers. I call it rude...he just says he's "passionate." Passion is about to get his butt canned.

I think the biggest problem we face with internet forums is someone trying to determine exactly what the "intent" of their post really is. There have been times I have called someone out, but it's in a PM. Most of the time I find out they really didn't mean it that way, it's just the way I took it or just the way it looked in print.

You also don't know the relationship between the posters. There are members of this forum I can say just about anything to any way I want. In the forum or in PM's. They know me and I know them. They know who I am and I know who they are. We know what we mean. We care about each other and sometimes it's an exchange just like an exchange you might have with a family member.

And the other thing I've learned in 7 years here is that if someone constantly bugs you just put them on ignore. Works wonders for your sanity.

theBBQspecialist
02-05-2010, 08:17 AM
Passion and Competition! I love it. When you get down to it. Isn't that what it is all about. Beating the Best, and loving what you are doing. Learning from each other, asking for others opinions only to better yourself and hopefully make some friends along the way. Isn't that what a sport is all about. After all compeition BBQ is a sport right. Well, i think of it more as a dedication. I know I'm passionate about it, it's my job and I love it. I do have to agree though, things have been more tense lately here on the brethren. I come here to learn, to network, and to find new friends. If I'm in the wrong, I'd like to know. If I'm in the right, i'd like to know that too. Can't we all just get along!

landarc
02-05-2010, 12:35 PM
I got called out my BBQ Grail. Just sayin'

BBQ Grail
02-05-2010, 01:08 PM
I got called out my BBQ Grail. Just sayin'

I did?

Lake Dogs
02-05-2010, 03:28 PM
landarc, perhaps I'm in good company... :-)

BBQ Grail,

> Unless something is directed at me I choose to not worry about it.
Agreed, and generally I do the same. I've experience 3 of the 4 scenarios
I described originally personally myself, multiple times. It was, however,
the one scenario that I hadn't personally experienced myself but had seen
many times in the past 2 or 3 months that had me writing this to begin
with... I digress.

You're right about the ignore. I only found that part a few days ago, and
I'm now using it. Thanks.

To your earlier mention of the sales guy. He's mistaken. Being passionate
about something has nothing to do with being an *** hole. A person who
is passionate about something may and can be the nicest most polite person
on earth. Conversely, an *** hole may not give a flying rip about stuff and
not have a passionate bone in their body. In the case of your sales person,
sounds to me like he is probably passionate, but surely is an *** hole.

I dont think there's been a case where I've been rude or mean or nasty towards
anyone at bbq-brethren, with 1 exception. That exceptions was in a personal
message, and wasn't terribly bad, but definitely was sent to get a rise out them.
I was mad, it shouldn't have happened, but I had the composure so as not to
put that on a public forum such as this one.

To that person, here in a public forum, I apologize. It was off color, wrong,
and completely inappropriate. Perhaps they'll read this. Or, perhaps not.

BBQ Grail
02-05-2010, 10:06 PM
I didn't call anyone out...

Period, end of my participation in this thread...

MilitantSquatter
02-05-2010, 10:11 PM
is this thread over yet ?

BBQchef33
02-05-2010, 10:19 PM
It is now.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_di45gaYdDfM/SXJhS8U08II/AAAAAAAAAS4/M0gJCFQzaSA/s400/gorrila2.jpg

SmokeInDaEye
02-05-2010, 10:22 PM
is this thread over yet ?

You don't care about Tyler? He was the only thing that got me through that
bout of mono that damn near lasted a week. He could also walk on his hind legs like a real boy.

CivilWarBBQ
02-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Q3: When did it become acceptable that rather to engage in a discussion you immediately jump into a "whose penis is larger" thing?
...
Q4: When did it become acceptable to call other's a liar here?
...


Welcome to the Internet.

Doesn't matter what the topic of a forum is about, bbq, politics, religion or stamp collecting - the behaviors you are dismayed about are SOP. It's why a very large portion of the population does not frequent Internet forums. Attempts at strong moderation are usually not well received and just attract more ridicule (Basso's for example).

Bottom line is if you don't have a thick skin, stay away. In places like this you're as likely to get a boot to the head as a group hug. You gotta be able to just ignore stuff and move on.