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motoeric
02-03-2010, 08:09 PM
Hi,

How many teams use gloves when prepping food and then again when prepping turn-in boxes?

I thought that it was pretty much SOP until I saw Notley Que on Pitmasters up to his wrist in pulled pork without gloves. Sorta gross.

Am I just used to exceptionally clean teams and most cooks don't use gloves or was that an anomaly?


Eric

G$
02-03-2010, 08:14 PM
I'll just say that "using gloves does not automatically mean clean and sanitary". The inverse is also true.

(We use them pretty much all the time - gets darn pricey!)

Rub
02-03-2010, 08:16 PM
It's a requirement in the FBA.

Meat@Slim's
02-03-2010, 08:18 PM
We use them on both ends. We fly through them on turn in.

MilitantSquatter
02-03-2010, 08:19 PM
Most probably have the best intentions and gloves get used with the majoriy of teams for the majority of the time, but it's clearly not 100% sanitary. Too much time goes by for exceptions, lapses in judgement or indifference to happen even with some of the most veteran cooks.

I'm sure sampling sauces off a spoon that they continue to stir with happens as well, or teams not washing hands after using a porta potty that does not have hand sanitizer dispenser in it etc.

on the flip side, for some it's more often about keeping their hands clean rather than being concerned about food safety and spreading of germs.

So who wants to judge now ????

BigBarry
02-03-2010, 08:40 PM
We cringe when we watch food shows and we see food handled by bare hands. Bourdain in foreign countries is understandable (that's why you bring pepto on trips) but for US-based contests and restaurants, it's just wrong.

In the USA: EVERYONE KNOWS BETTER and so I put it up to laziness and a lack of consideration for their fellow man. I know restaurants can be a nightmare but some are not.

BigJimsBBQ
02-03-2010, 08:55 PM
Simply put, anything (Hands, cutting board, knifes, etc.) need to clean and sanitized acording to Health Department (HD) regulations. If you have ever been at a compatition, most Teams do not have hot water. I definetly think a DQ should happen if the basics of Food Handling is not followed.

thenewguy
02-03-2010, 09:02 PM
Eric, you mentioned the pitmasters program. My wife just freaks out when she sees them doing all the prepping and such with no gloves. Did anyone happen to notice the "gourmet chef" Paul cooking his ribs up and everytime he moved them around on the smoker the first place his fingers would go to is right in his mouth? Real class act there.
We go though a case of disposable gloves a season.

BBQ Grail
02-03-2010, 09:21 PM
Let's not be to harsh on Notley. I've cooked plenty of times with him and he's always used gloves. Keep in mind that this "reality show" isn't always about reality. There are plenty of retakes and such where continuity is overlooked.

mgwerks
02-03-2010, 09:25 PM
Nitrile gloves, prep to serve.

JohnJ
02-03-2010, 10:19 PM
Working around food service and in watching food handlers both on TV (BBQ Pitmasters, Food Network shows, etc.), and at work, gloves... why even wear them? I see people with gloves on pick their nose and continue to work with their food and other stuff that just negates the use of gloves. If you're going to use them for sanitary reasons, keep in mind that once you clean the toilet, you oughta change your gloves!

If your hands are washed and clean, fingernails trimmed and clean underneath, you are probably just as sanitary as a person wearing a brand new pair of gloves. But you have to clean your hands or replace your gloves once you leave that "sterile field".

Just my 2 cents from what I have personally observed.

John

lunchlady
02-03-2010, 10:28 PM
It's a requirement in the FBA.

yep... NEBS too.

thenewguy
02-03-2010, 10:33 PM
Working around food service and in watching food handlers both on TV (BBQ Pitmasters, Food Network shows, etc.), and at work, gloves... why even wear them? I see people with gloves on pick their nose and continue to work with their food and other stuff that just negates the use of gloves. If you're going to use them for sanitary reasons, keep in mind that once you clean the toilet, you oughta change your gloves!

If your hands are washed and clean, fingernails trimmed and clean underneath, you are probably just as sanitary as a person wearing a brand new pair of gloves. But you have to clean your hands or replace your gloves once you leave that "sterile field".

Just my 2 cents from what I have personally observed.

John
How very true. I like watching the guy put the gloves on, then open the door, grab the food,then grab a knife to open the package then...you get the idea.
Gloves are to be used on the task at hand, not for everyday actions.

CivilWarBBQ
02-03-2010, 11:08 PM
Gloves are not required for food handling by health departments except in rare cases, but frequent hand washing is always required, even when wearing gloves. Many kitchen managers believe that gloves are often the CAUSE of contamination, because when wearing them your hands don't feel dirty so people tend to not change them when they would rewash their hands.

Clean hands are no more of a health risk than gloves. If you look in most restaurants and your own home you will see people preparing food without gloves more often than not. Everyone in the food service business understands this, but for some reason a segment of the population has become fixated on the idea that gloves = safe when nothing could be further from the truth.

BigBarry
02-04-2010, 12:50 AM
Gloves are not required for food handling by health departments except in rare cases, but frequent hand washing is always required, even when wearing gloves. Many kitchen managers believe that gloves are often the CAUSE of contamination, because when wearing them your hands don't feel dirty so people tend to not change them when they would rewash their hands.

Clean hands are no more of a health risk than gloves. If you look in most restaurants and your own home you will see people preparing food without gloves more often than not. Everyone in the food service business understands this, but for some reason a segment of the population has become fixated on the idea that gloves = safe when nothing could be further from the truth.

The sad thing is that most folks in direct-contact with food in food service are from the third world (God bless them but they are from another midset/culture) and I have worked with them for years. They usually do not understand (or care about) basic health and safety best practices or the reasons behind them. We need to have better education and enforcement for all involved.

It would be nice if hand washing was done at regular intervals but it is not. Glove management keeps hygiene top of mind for everyone in the kitchen. It's sad but if they are aware of glove use, they tend to keep hygiene top of mind (in a way).

MilitantSquatter
02-04-2010, 06:55 AM
I think we should bringing this discussion back to the topic on competition and not general food service....

Do you see/know teams that do not use gloves or regularly wash their hands, or use other unsanitary practices ?

If so, how do you think can this be improved by teams overall ?

Podge
02-04-2010, 08:08 AM
I think we should bringing this discussion back to the topic on competition and not general food service....

Do you see/know teams that do not use gloves or regularly wash their hands, or use other unsanitary practices ?

If so, how do you think can this be improved by teams overall ?

Very hard to improve, we're all adults, and I don't think people would take to kindly someone telling them to wash their hands.. I too have seen some pretty unsanitary practices, part of the reason why I chose not to judge.

The way I look at it, my mom eats my leftovers. You can bet that I do not want her or other loved ones to get sick, so sanitation is very important in my camp.

TN_BBQ
02-04-2010, 08:10 AM
Gloves are not required for food handling by health departments except in rare cases, but frequent hand washing is always required, even when wearing gloves. Many kitchen managers believe that gloves are often the CAUSE of contamination, because when wearing them your hands don't feel dirty so people tend to not change them when they would rewash their hands.

Clean hands are no more of a health risk than gloves. If you look in most restaurants and your own home you will see people preparing food without gloves more often than not. Everyone in the food service business understands this, but for some reason a segment of the population has become fixated on the idea that gloves = safe when nothing could be further from the truth.

Well put. :-D

I've never seen my grandma put on a set of rubber gloves.

Clean hands? I'm a big fan of that, but don't leave the house if you get too worked up over stuff like that.

CajunSmoker
02-04-2010, 08:19 AM
I use nitrile gloves for prepping my meat. I have to special order them cause my hands are to big for the ones you can buy off the shelves. The rest of the time I use the little thin vinyl food service gloves for making boxes and such.

I've gotten so used to using them that I keep a box of the food service gloves in my kitchen. It keeps onion and seafood smells off my hands and I feel like it helps keep down any possible cross contamination.

flynaked720
02-04-2010, 08:21 AM
As long as you keep up general sanitary conditions, gloves are great but I have seen many people have gloves on opening doors, going from raw meat to cooking meat, etc... Use common sense please

BigBarry
02-04-2010, 09:41 AM
As for comps, I think the organizers/staff should review basic guidelines at inspection (extra 2 mins), maybe pass out a sheet of basics and explain that it's a warning and possible DQ (??) if gloves are not used and changed often and hand washing is not done right and often during the comp. Again, it's education and then the individual's choice to care about their fellow man. You do have to protect the judges.

crd26a
02-04-2010, 09:50 AM
As for comps, I think the organizers/staff should review basic guidelines at inspection (extra 2 mins), maybe pass out a sheet of basics and explain that it's a warning and possible DQ (??) if gloves are not used and changed often and hand washing is not done right and often during the comp. Again, it's education and then the individual's choice to care about their fellow man. You do have to protect the judges.

It's not a requirement for KCBS contests on the gloves. The closest you get are 16b and 16d

b) Cleanliness of the cook, assistant cooks,
cooking device(s) and the teamís assigned cooking
space is required.

d) Sanitizing of work area should be implemented
with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon
of water). Each contestant will provide a separate
container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of
utensils

It's really up to the teams doing their best and working to keep it clean. I know for our new trailer, two of the first things we bought were dispensers and a case of gloves to be at the prep areas and ready to grab

Divemaster
02-04-2010, 10:21 AM
I would say that we go through roughly 1-2 boxes of gloves at each and every comp. It's to the point that I look forward to not cooking and sitting back and relaxing so I don't have to have them on! LOL

Simply put, anything (Hands, cutting board, knifes, etc.) need to clean and sanitized acording to Health Department (HD) regulations. If you have ever been at a compatition, most Teams do not have hot water. I definetly think a DQ should happen if the basics of Food Handling is not followed.
I disagree. While many of us (I include our team because we just got our on-demand hot water heater) may not have running hot water but that doesn't mean that there isn't a turkey fryer out back that isn't heating up 3-4 gallons of water for washing. Propane is on our check list for this reason alone!

As long as you keep up general sanitary conditions, gloves are great but I have seen many people have gloves on opening doors, going from raw meat to cooking meat, etc... Use common sense please
Just go to Dunkin Donuts and watch them take your money, pull a sheet of paper, put the food in the bag along with the sheet of paper that's been used by hands touching the filthiest item in circulation. The US dollar bill.

It's really up to the teams doing their best and working to keep it clean. I know for our new trailer, two of the first things we bought were dispensers and a case of gloves to be at the prep areas and ready to grab


I couldn't agree more. I use gloves both at comps and at home. I also make sure my hands are clean before I put them on and after I take them off.

Ford
02-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Hi,

How many teams use gloves when prepping food and then again when prepping turn-in boxes?

I thought that it was pretty much SOP until I saw Notley Que on Pitmasters up to his wrist in pulled pork without gloves. Sorta gross.

Am I just used to exceptionally clean teams and most cooks don't use gloves or was that an anomaly?


Eric
You have no idea how bad it is. People put on gloves then open pit doors, handle meat and other things in the prep area without change gloves every time they handle a new thing. As a HD inspected vendor I carry best practices from vending over into competition but may not always be perfect.

There is no requirement for gloves so long as you wash hands when you need to but that means at least warm water flowing not in a basin and washing for 20 seconds. Almost never see proper hand wash stations at a competition site. FYI I have a hand wash sink in my trailer.
Simply put, anything (Hands, cutting board, knifes, etc.) need to clean and sanitized acording to Health Department (HD) regulations. If you have ever been at a compatition, most Teams do not have hot water. I definetly think a DQ should happen if the basics of Food Handling is not followed.
Competitors are not selling food and as such the HD can't hold teams to the HD standards. If so we'd never have a contest. The KCBS sets minimums to follow and teams should be held to that standard. But who is going to inspect them.
Eric, you mentioned the pitmasters program. My wife just freaks out when she sees them doing all the prepping and such with no gloves. Did anyone happen to notice the "gourmet chef" Paul cooking his ribs up and everytime he moved them around on the smoker the first place his fingers would go to is right in his mouth? Real class act there.
We go though a case of disposable gloves a season.
As already suggested what you see may be different takes cut together. But in my experience with contests and watching other cooks during prep and cooking there's some pretty questionable practices. Good news is that the food is usually cooked enough to kill all the bugs. As long as they start filling the boxes with clean hands and a clean work area there should be no problems. I use gloves because I'm less likely to lick gloved fingers. I knwo the problem and Carol yells at me at home. Good practices at home lead to better practices at a contest.

How many cook teams have an 5 or 10 gallon igloo cooler with hot water setup for hand washing along with a catch basin and soap. Assuming of course you don;t have a sink system with a hand wash only sink. If you don't then gloves or no gloves you are probably contaminating your box entries.

kurtsara
02-04-2010, 11:14 AM
I don't like seeing people not use gloves but I also don't like seeing people smoking cigarettes and cigars in the area of there smokers

Ford
02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't like seeing people not use gloves but I also don't like seeing people smoking cigarettes and cigars in the area of there smokers
I enjoy cigars but not around my smokers. As they are in the new trailer and were on the tail gate in the old one I had a rule of no smoking in the trailer. Still will with the new one. People should wash their hands before putting on gloves but even I'm guilty of not doing that all the time.

I think there is a KCBS rule about smoking while handling meat. Some people choose to obey others don't. If you see a problem it's your duty to report it to the Rep or else forget it and don't complain.

theBBQspecialist
02-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Watch Kitchen Nightmares on Fox. Its a Gordon Ramsey show. Then tell me if you'll eat in a restaurant again. Some of those places are nasty!

Divemaster
02-04-2010, 01:04 PM
You have no idea how bad it is. People put on gloves then open pit doors, handle meat and other things in the prep area without change gloves every time they handle a new thing. As a HD inspected vendor I carry best practices from vending over into competition but may not always be perfect.

There is no requirement for gloves so long as you wash hands when you need to but that means at least warm water flowing not in a basin and washing for 20 seconds. Almost never see proper hand wash stations at a competition site. FYI I have a hand wash sink in my trailer.

Competitors are not selling food and as such the HD can't hold teams to the HD standards. If so we'd never have a contest. The KCBS sets minimums to follow and teams should be held to that standard. But who is going to inspect them.

As already suggested what you see may be different takes cut together. But in my experience with contests and watching other cooks during prep and cooking there's some pretty questionable practices. Good news is that the food is usually cooked enough to kill all the bugs. As long as they start filling the boxes with clean hands and a clean work area there should be no problems. I use gloves because I'm less likely to lick gloved fingers. I knwo the problem and Carol yells at me at home. Good practices at home lead to better practices at a contest.

How many cook teams have an 5 or 10 gallon igloo cooler with hot water setup for hand washing along with a catch basin and soap. Assuming of course you don;t have a sink system with a hand wash only sink. If you don't then gloves or no gloves you are probably contaminating your box entries.
We do... The whole setup cost us a grand total of $10 for the igloo and a 5 gallon bucket to catch the water.

I don't like seeing people not use gloves but I also don't like seeing people smoking cigarettes and cigars in the area of there smokers

I enjoy cigars but not around my smokers. As they are in the new trailer and were on the tail gate in the old one I had a rule of no smoking in the trailer. Still will with the new one. People should wash their hands before putting on gloves but even I'm guilty of not doing that all the time.
I too enjoy a fine cigar. Our team rule is no smoking around the meats and boxes.

I think there is a KCBS rule about smoking while handling meat. Some people choose to obey others don't. If you see a problem it's your duty to report it to the Rep or else forget it and don't complain.

Here it is...

16) The following cleanliness and safety rules will
apply:
a) No use of any tobacco products while handling
meat.

early mornin' smokin'
02-04-2010, 01:20 PM
there's a lot of misconception about wearing gloves. The only time gloves should be absolutely necessary is when you are handling the meat to be put into the boxes.

General cleanliness is a bigger factor, are all your rub containers sanitized, handles of cookers, knives, tongs. Gloved hand or not, you can contaminate any of these items.

thillin
02-04-2010, 03:17 PM
How many cook teams have an 5 or 10 gallon igloo cooler with hot water setup for hand washing along with a catch basin and soap. Assuming of course you don;t have a sink system with a hand wash only sink. If you don't then gloves or no gloves you are probably contaminating your box entries.

That's what we do. The hand soap sits on top of the cooler. It's usually almost too hot to wash with. The 5 day 5 gallon coolers rock!

We also keep hand sanitizer by the prep table near teh box of gloves as well.

thillin
02-04-2010, 03:25 PM
General cleanliness is a bigger factor, are all your rub containers sanitized, handles of cookers, knives, tongs. Gloved hand or not, you can contaminate any of these items.

I put rubber gloves on the rub bottles and wear gloves. If I'm alone, my right gloved hand does not touch raw meat when seasoning. Only the gloved rub bottles. Slows me down, but I'd rather be safe. When done all gloves removed and Clorox wipe all rub containers.

Everything gets rewashed at home and then loaded back in the trailer. We wash well at comps, but the dishwasher gives me a little more confidence that everything is cleaned well.

smoke-n-my-i's
02-04-2010, 04:07 PM
Yes, I use gloves from start to finish. Working in health care (hospital) is almost demanding to wash and wear gloves. I am so use to it, that it comes second nature.

I agree, the problem is that some people just don't understand that clean hands to start with before putting on gloves is #1. Why put gloves on with dirty hands?

When you touch or move something other than the meat/food, change gloves. It only takes a few seconds.

When you change from one meat to another, clean the work area, and utensils, wash hands, and new gloves.

I guess I am more into it than most, as I am allergic to pork, and if I get the "juice" on my finger/fingers and get it to my mouth.... it is all over. So, yes, I USE gloves, soap, and water.

It is mostly common sense. Wash, dry, glove up, and change as needed.

It is a misconception that if you have gloves on you are sanitary. Well, it is not so. You have to be clean to start with. So, use common sense, and you will be fine. If in doubt, wash again, and put on new gloves.

And now for my next question. Just how clean are those gloves you pull out of that box. It has been open to the open air, in the trailer, with doors open to the free air, dust and dirt in the air.... think again. They are most likely just as dirty..... why not take a second and "wash" them off after putting them on. It only takes a few seconds to just rinse them off if nothing else.

Ok, I am going to my corner now.... GLOVE UP

smoke it if ya got it
02-04-2010, 04:09 PM
We always use gloves cuts down on the hand washing. I noticed that too and was a bit put off especially the finger licking!

River City Smokehouse
02-04-2010, 04:35 PM
We always gloves up when we bbq. Gloves are cheap compared to a dr.

Smoke'n Ice
02-04-2010, 07:31 PM
Wash, use a hand sanitizer (hugh bottles available from Sams), glove up and change ofter using the above procedure.

HD requires any handling of ready to eat product must follow the above procedure.

Gloves by the case are availble at Restaurant Deport and by the two box at Sams in small, medium, large and extra large.

Cheap insurance.

beardjp
02-04-2010, 11:27 PM
I to have worked in the medical field for 25+ years. Gloves do not mean clean. Clean is a proces and system. You start with a clean area, if you wear gloves a hand wash is still needed when you change gloves. With all the flu information out lately I would have thought everyone would pick-up a little more on the hand washing routine. The number one thing to do to stop any transmission of anything is to WASH YOUR HANDS!!!

watertowerbbq
02-05-2010, 03:32 PM
As for comps, I think the organizers/staff should review basic guidelines at inspection (extra 2 mins), maybe pass out a sheet of basics and explain that it's a warning and possible DQ (??) if gloves are not used and changed often and hand washing is not done right and often during the comp.

This sounds good, but to enforce would take a lot of people and be difficult. You would need as many TRAINED volunteers as you have teams. I hear what you are saying but it doesn't sound realistic given how most comps operate.

thenewguy
02-05-2010, 06:03 PM
So should a guy say something when they see a "competitor" use the restroom and not wash their hands too? Where does the madness stop?

lunchlady
02-06-2010, 11:44 AM
my .02...
I don't think it's madness... it's up to you whether or not you want to say something... either to that person or to a rep.
FACT : Every competitor is going to have to use the facilities at some point during a competition. Real bathroom or porta-pottie.
Personally, I make it a point to BRING sanitizer with me, whenever I head that way.
Policing these rules may border on the impossible, but at least it is in there.

Personally, I would rather say something than see anyone get sick, even at the risk of being told to shut up or mind my own business or hear later that I am a raving bitch. Too many of us actually know of teams that do not have the cleanest/safest practices. Maybe if they realize that others are paying attention, they would change.
Judges need to feel confident that they aren't going to get sick, otherwise, as others have said, they just won't judge anymore. If that happens, there goes our favorite pasttime.

DCFIREMANN
02-06-2010, 04:35 PM
We always wear them. I guess it is a habit from work. It is very rare to see any one on the team near any meat with out them on.

Be Safe

THE DAWG