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Merl
02-03-2010, 06:41 PM
The agenda for the KCBS BOD meeting of 2-5-10 (Friday) at 7:00 p.m. has been posted.
This includes many important issues.
Merl Whitebook
Secretary - KCBS

Rich Parker
02-03-2010, 07:03 PM
Change to Rule 6
Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets, charcoal or propane gas.

That should be an interesting discussion.

HoDeDo
02-03-2010, 07:27 PM
Several of the suggestions dont seem to reflect the feedback I was hearing... interesting. I know I was still on my way to the hotel while the meeting was going on, so I didn't hear all the input.... but many of these requested changes dont seem to mesh with accounts I heard after the meeting. How are the recommendations arrived at?

SirPorkaLot
02-03-2010, 08:20 PM
Propane gas? Seriously?
IMHO that would be moving KCBS in the wrong direction - away from their roots and the tradition of BBQ.


I do have to say I agree with the chicken rule change recommendation, not sure why they would want to delay implementation for a year though.
The trend to (unnaturally) perfect little thighs has bothered me, i would welcome the requirement to submit both white & dark meat.

the rest of it seems innocuous.

Buster Dog BBQ
02-03-2010, 08:33 PM
I like the restrictions on size for ancillary categories. Saw many times where it took two people to carry a desert that looked like it was on a Food Network challenge.

Not a fan of the chicken rule. There is no rule that limits the type of chicken you can turn in currently. To me this reminds me of all the garnish talk.

Butcher BBQ
02-03-2010, 08:37 PM
What I liked was the change of wording for identifiable .

Diva
02-03-2010, 10:29 PM
several of the suggestions dont seem to reflect the feedback i was hearing... Interesting. I know i was still on my way to the hotel while the meeting was going on, so i didn't hear all the input.... But many of these requested changes dont seem to mesh with accounts i heard after the meeting. How are the recommendations arrived at?

exactly!

Diva
02-03-2010, 10:32 PM
What's the deal with finding out how many bounce-back emails? According to a post on the other forum it was exclaimed that there was a plan in place if that were to occur......obviously, THAT didn't happen.

Rookie'48
02-03-2010, 10:53 PM
What I liked was the change of wording for identifiable .

I've felt that this rule needed to be changed or clarified, this is good. But why no change on Rule # 10 about parting? You can part chix, ribbs & brisky - why not pork?

Just my $0.02

p.s. - propane? That should be interesting to hear.

Plowboy
02-03-2010, 11:29 PM
I like the suggestion for rule 15. What I read is don't worry about 6 pieces at the time of appearance. Let it all shake out at the end if the 6th judge doesn't get a piece. Essentially, it is saying don't worry about the number of pieces you can see, worry about the number you get. Makes sense to me.

Oh and Paul Kirk - No Report. Welcome back, buddy!!!

Plowboy
02-03-2010, 11:41 PM
I guess my request to announce committee members, needs, and openings through KCBS.us didn't make the agenda.

Plowboy
02-03-2010, 11:49 PM
Several of the suggestions dont seem to reflect the feedback I was hearing... interesting. I know I was still on my way to the hotel while the meeting was going on, so I didn't hear all the input.... but many of these requested changes dont seem to mesh with accounts I heard after the meeting. How are the recommendations arrived at?

And why should they reflect the joke of a meeting that is held at the banquet each year? Do you think even .1% of the membership was represented? Hold it in a hotel with no dial in or Web conferencing capabilities for those who aren't traveling to the banquet location. Hold it on Friday afternoon when some people who are going to attend the banquet are still traveling. What kind of a representation should be expected with a recipe like that?

#1 recommendation on the meeting agenda should be how to get quality rules feedback from the membership. I'm betting that there aren't hundreds of cook teams begging to cook white meat chicken. While I'm on the topic of chicken, most teams will tell you that it is probably the hardest to figure out and yet the easiest KCBS meat to cook. I think the entry offers its own set of challenges unique to the other three regardless if you are turning in thighs, breasts, wings or lollypops legs (which has always surprised me that it isn't sculpting). I'm going to start a "save the breasts" campaign.

Jeff_in_KC
02-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Yeah, that rules meeting is a joke. Always has been and probably always will be. There's got to be a better way to do this. Web sites? Hell, I don't know, but getting feedback from a group of people who in no way represent a true cross-section of the membership is ridiculous!

So... they want to allow propane but not electricity? If we're gonna bastardize KCBS, why not go all the way?

Rule 10 again... chit! The sugestion in Philly was to add the words "prior to cooking" after parted. That's why non-cooks shouldn't be making the rules.

"I would like to propose we find out how many bounced emails we had, follow-up with a letter to those members in order to get current emails and update our database. "

Really? Now??? Why not send out a test email message and check for bounces back in like September or October so you have three months to fix things? Awesome forsight!

And yeah, let's all go out and grab six farkin' whole chickens to cook to get six pieces! :roll:

Oh and Paul Kirk - No Report. Welcome back, buddy!!!

You think 1,006 KCBS members are getting their money's worth, Todd?

tmcmaster
02-04-2010, 12:27 AM
Change to Rule 6
Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets, charcoal or propane gas.

That should be an interesting discussion.


What.

The.

FARK?!?!

tmcmaster
02-04-2010, 12:30 AM
And why should they reflect the joke of a meeting that is held at the banquet each year? Do you think even .1% of the membership was represented? Hold it in a hotel with no dial in or Web conferencing capabilities for those who aren't traveling to the banquet location. Hold it on Friday afternoon when some people who are going to attend the banquet are still traveling. What kind of a representation should be expected with a recipe like that?

#1 recommendation on the meeting agenda should be how to get quality rules feedback from the membership. I'm betting that there aren't hundreds of cook teams begging to cook white meat chicken. While I'm on the topic of chicken, most teams will tell you that it is probably the hardest to figure out and yet the easiest KCBS meat to cook. I think the entry offers its own set of challenges unique to the other three regardless if you are turning in thighs, breasts, wings or lollypops legs (which has always surprised me that it isn't sculpting). I'm going to start a "save the breasts" campaign.
I'm in!!

Spydermike72
02-04-2010, 06:54 AM
Yeah, let's require the teams to cook 3 whole chickens... Nothing like adding expense to the Cook Teams in today's economy... I am ok with requiring white and dark meat, but let the cooks determine what they are going to cook.

What is next, telling the Teams that we have to cook 4 Butts,4 Racks of Ribs and 4 Briskets ??

Buster Dog BBQ
02-04-2010, 07:17 AM
So I guess I can do pulled chicken or chicken salad to get a nice mix of white and dark.

Seriously though, teams would probably do one or two breast and slice it into six pieces. I am pretty tired of all the whining about parsley and thighs. There is no rule that says you have to do either so quit b!tchin about it. What's next baby backs and spares in the same box? /rant

Ford
02-04-2010, 10:19 AM
Lets allow propane. No problem there and it opens up more potential sponsors.:biggrin:

Chicken rule change is just plain dumb. :icon_pissed If you must have white and dark then you need 6 pieces of each in the box. So get bigger boxes so we can have good appearance or 2 boxes - now that would be fun for TC's. Any caterers out there know how hard it is to please a buffet customer when they want 50-50 white and dark. Lots of PO'd customers. I try to steer customers away from it.

Pork comes off and satys off. Want 2 temps cook 2 butts. This whole discussion has been ridiculous at best. And don't say we part Brisket and put it back on. You can ccok flats, packers so parting is legal. the rule calls for a whole butt not pieces so parting is illegal. :evil:

If you require whole chickens then no parting and putting back on the pit. And in a year we'll be cooking whole hog and taking out ribs and butts for turn-in. What next. Somebody that wrote up the suggested rule changes was on mind altering products and I want them to share with all of us.

Ford
02-04-2010, 10:20 AM
Email the BOD today with your comments. Some have already left for the conference so email all. I've sent my comments and even had 3 replies so far.

stlgreg
02-04-2010, 10:24 AM
Yeah, let's require the teams to cook 3 whole chickens... Nothing like adding expense to the Cook Teams in today's economy... I am ok with requiring white and dark meat, but let the cooks determine what they are going to cook.

What is next, telling the Teams that we have to cook 4 Butts,4 Racks of Ribs and 4 Briskets ??

In my area whole chickens per pound are cheaper than individual pieces per pound. I would save money by cooking three chickens to get six thighs.

After awhile someone would decide that chickens always start walking with their right foot so they turn in only left thighs and now I am cooking 6 chickens to get all left thighs. But now I want to make sure they are are all close to the same size so I am cooking 12 thighs, so I can see how this could get out of hand. :shock::-D:wink::wink::wink:

It would be more expensive if they put in a rule that we have to turn in white and dark meat without saying we have to cook whole chickens. Since chicken wings have fat and for the most part breast doesnt, we would all end up turning in wings. Now we have a wing and thigh contest. Sigh.

crd26a
02-04-2010, 10:30 AM
That was a $hitty read. Propane? Really? And have to agree 100% with Todd, thanks for the hard work Paul, keep up the reporting

Alexa RnQ
02-04-2010, 10:42 AM
Propane and drunks -- that's a great mix.

Ford
02-04-2010, 10:47 AM
Propane and drunks -- that's a great mix.
Allow propane. Put in a breathalizer for cooks. No reason you have to get drunk.

Besides there's more sites with propane tanks than ones without. Weed burners, turkey fryers, pits with propane and gas assist and the list goes on not to mention the car gas tanks right next to an open charcoal or wood fire with sparks. Especially those oil leaking cars.

Most folks that invest 10K in a cooker are not planning on being drunk. It's the idiots burning small upright charcoal burners that get knocked over by drunks.

lunchlady
02-04-2010, 10:49 AM
I thought the conception (?) of the "Competitor Series" was so that KCBS could allow propane, and thusly propane cooks, cookers and, most importantly propane SPONSORS, into the mix?
Did that go away?

Big Ugly's BBQ
02-04-2010, 10:50 AM
what.

the.

fark?!?!



my thoughts exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jorge
02-04-2010, 10:51 AM
I'm guessing that members won't be able to listen to this meeting by phone, since the BoD will be in Memphis.

lunchlady
02-04-2010, 10:52 AM
... It's the idiots burning small upright charcoal burners that get knocked over by drunks.


now now... try to be nice to us idiots... :roll:

Warthog
02-04-2010, 10:56 AM
Propane, ha ha What next electric.

Buster Dog BBQ
02-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Email the BOD today with your comments. Some have already left for the conference so email all. I've sent my comments and even had 3 replies so far.
I emailed them my thoughts. I am sure that doesn't mean anything but my own satisfaction.

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 11:00 AM
Allow propane. Put in a breathalizer for cooks. No reason you have to get drunk.

Besides there's more sites with propane tanks than ones without. Weed burners, turkey fryers, pits with propane and gas assist and the list goes on not to mention the car gas tanks right next to an open charcoal or wood fire with sparks. Especially those oil leaking cars.

Most folks that invest 10K in a cooker are not planning on being drunk. It's the idiots burning small upright charcoal burners that get knocked over by drunks.

See that's just it.

Most of us (read most of KCBS membership) does not have 10K to invest in a cooker, nor would we want to.

It is the cook not the cooker....remember?

If you can't create great BBQ over an an open pit (read live fire) you shouldn't be in a BBQ contest anyways.

There are lot's of cooking competitions that use gas....ovens...BBQ shouldn't be one of them.

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 11:03 AM
I emailed them my thoughts. I am sure that doesn't mean anything but my own satisfaction.

I also e-mailed my thoughts to the BOD

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Ford - You hit a nerve brother.

A breathalyzer, propane?

I can't think of a quicker way to screw up a good contest.

Let's outlaw alcohol, get rid of charcoal, wood fires and anything else that could be considered offensive.

We will all get our gas grills, wood chips in a foil pack & our green tea, and go pretend we are cooking BBQ.

Come on man! (ESPN mod)

Ford
02-04-2010, 11:09 AM
My comments in red. Any chance you'll be in Mobile, Little Rock or Hammond? Be glad to put a side bet on how we finish and I'm coning down to your neck of the woods for these contests not in the friendly confines of the midwest.

See that's just it.

Most of us (read most of KCBS membership) does not have 10K to invest in a cooker, nor would we want to.

Speak for yourself. I see a large % of team with well over $10 k invested at contests these days and the % continues to go up.

It is the cook not the cooker....remember?

So who cares what people cook on. Unless you are threatened by cooks using gas because they may put out a better product and it would prove they were the better cook.

If you can't create great BBQ over an an open pit (read live fire) you shouldn't be in a BBQ contest anyways.

If you feel this way start your own BBQ association with these rules. Don't try to outlaw others to meet your standards.

And a WSM is not an open pit as it can be a smoldering pile of charcoal. Same for a Stumps, Backwoods and many other pits.

There are lot's of cooking competitions that use gas....ovens...BBQ shouldn't be one of them.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

WineMaster
02-04-2010, 11:10 AM
In 2011 you will be able to pick your chicken turn in up at KFC.

Ford
02-04-2010, 11:16 AM
Ford - You hit a nerve brother.

A breathalyzer, propane?

I can't think of a quicker way to screw up a good contest.

Let's outlaw alcohol, get rid of charcoal, wood fires and anything else that could be considered offensive.

We will all get our gas grills, wood chips in a foil pack & our green tea, and go pretend we are cooking BBQ.

Come on man! (ESPN mod)
Many/most contests have a no alcohol policy but let it slide so long as teams are discrete and don't cause problems. Some are in public parks and as such are enforced by the local police dept and they have the right to arrest anybody with an open container.

Now I'm not saying don't drink but there's no need to get drunk. If that's why you go to a contest then fine with me, just means one less team I have to worry about at awards time.

But if a person is drunk using a WSM and knocks it over and start a fire I hope they throw the book at them. No reason for that to ever happen.

FYI i enjoy an adult beverage at a contest just don't see any reason to drink more that is allowed for driving. Cookers and cars can be dangerous when operated by a drunk. Designate a sober person to tend fire and the rest of the team can have fun just stay away from the fires.

Divemaster
02-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I was at the rules meeting....
Propane and drunks -- that's a great mix.
Propane was brought up in the same conversation as pellets... It went something like...
"Should we allow propane? This could end up like a pellet discussion."

Vote was no. End of discussion.

That was a $hitty read. Propane? Really? And have to agree 100% with Todd, thanks for the hard work Paul, keep up the reporting

Yea, and you can thank Paul for the whole chicken conversation. He was the only one that was pushing it. Interesting how it ends up on the agenda when no one else was for it....

Yea, I feel REAL represented...

WineMaster
02-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Many/most contests have a no alcohol policy but let it slide so long as teams are discrete and don't cause problems. Some are in public parks and as such are enforced by the local police dept and they have the right to arrest anybody with an open container.

Now I'm not saying don't drink but there's no need to get drunk. If that's why you go to a contest then fine with me, just means one less team I have to worry about at awards time.

But if a person is drunk using a WSM and knocks it over and start a fire I hope they throw the book at them. No reason for that to ever happen.

FYI i enjoy an adult beverage at a contest just don't see any reason to drink more that is allowed for driving. Cookers and cars can be dangerous when operated by a drunk. Designate a sober person to tend fire and the rest of the team can have fun just stay away from the fires.

Would you get a BWI???

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 11:27 AM
My comments in red. Any chance you'll be in Mobile, Little Rock or Hammond? Be glad to put a side bet on how we finish and I'm coning down to your neck of the woods for these contests not in the friendly confines of the midwest.

Yes - there are a lot of folks investing a lot of money in their rigs & cookers, but it is still a small percentage of the overall BBQ population.

KCBS is trying to be more inclusive (i think this is where the whole misguided propane thing originated), getting to a point that it would require 10s of thousands of dollars to be able to successfully compete will run a lot of people out of KCBS, not towards it.

It is not a matter of being scared - to me it is a matter of tradition, and the meaning of BBQ.

The one reason I am competing now is because it takes a minimal amount of money to get started and I enjoy getting calls on my inexpensive equipment, while teams with a 30K rig are sitting there pissed off that I am walking.

I truly wish someone would start an association that brings the tradition back to BBQ, and gets rid of all the ancillary crap.

I think KCBS would see a drop in membership if that was to happen.


Any rule setting or changing is always surrounded by posturing, complaining, and people that think they know a better way.

We are no different, but I for one will continue to compete and follow the rules, whatever they are, unless it gets to the point that the judges have become used to meat cooked in a 20K propane fueld rig, and won't score anything else well, because they think it tastes like wood smoke instead of flavorless propane.....

In which case I wll be glad competing is just a hobby and not a full time gig that I would be forced to get a second mortgage just to compete.

SirPorkaLot
02-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Many/most contests have a no alcohol policy but let it slide so long as teams are discrete and don't cause problems. Some are in public parks and as such are enforced by the local police dept and they have the right to arrest anybody with an open container.

Now I'm not saying don't drink but there's no need to get drunk. If that's why you go to a contest then fine with me, just means one less team I have to worry about at awards time.

But if a person is drunk using a WSM and knocks it over and start a fire I hope they throw the book at them. No reason for that to ever happen.

FYI i enjoy an adult beverage at a contest just don't see any reason to drink more that is allowed for driving. Cookers and cars can be dangerous when operated by a drunk. Designate a sober person to tend fire and the rest of the team can have fun just stay away from the fires.

If we ever happen to be at the same contest, you will recognize me.
I will be the tall, stocky hungover dude with the cheap equipment getting a higher call than you. :mrgreen:

goodsmokebbq
02-04-2010, 11:37 AM
I was at the rules meeting....

Propane was brought up in the same conversation as pellets... It went something like...
"Should we allow propane? This could end up like a pellet discussion."

Vote was no. End of discussion.


Yea, and you can thank Paul for the whole chicken conversation. He was the only one that was pushing it. Interesting how it ends up on the agenda when no one else was for it....

Yea, I feel REAL represented...


All I can say is Ditto, neither of these things were wanted by the majority of folks at the meeting. I am a little confused...

KC_Bobby
02-04-2010, 11:56 AM
Great - it took me 3 years to get close to figuring out thighs and now I may have do alter that? That would be a huge rule change that should not go into effect this year ... or ever for that matter. How many cooks were at the rules meeting and was it a fair representation of the KCBS cooks from across the nation?

The other rule changes don't bother me - some good, some bad, some indifferent. I'm taken back by allowing propane, but it doesn't bother me. I'd like to see turn in times stay standard unless a valid reason can be given otherwise (like maybe Murphysburo)

Ford
02-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Great - it took me 3 years to get close to figuring out thighs and now I may have do alter that? That would be a huge rule change that should not go into effect this year ... or ever for that matter. How many cooks were at the rules meeting and was it a fair representation of the KCBS cooks from across the nation?

The other rule changes don't bother me - some good, some bad, some indifferent. I'm taken back by allowing propane, but it doesn't bother me. I'd like to see turn in times stay standard unless a valid reason can be given otherwise (like maybe Murphysburo)
Agree with Chicken - should do a vote as part of this falls election if they want this big a change. Ask non cooks to refrain from voting but we can't enforce it.

I don't care when turn in times are but have a real problem without knowing until the cooks meeting. Some people have specific timetables for marinating, injecting and if the time changes significantly it can impact their whole program. To me this is the single biggest impact to cooks.

As for propane, why not, we have every gadget and heat source but propane and electric and we could allow electric as well. If somebody brings in their Amana range and beats us they deserve to win. Would be pretty scary but it would happen to some teams.

ique
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
The one that caught my attention was:

Change to Rule 11
Judging typically starts at Noon on Saturday, but could vary at any contest.
Turn-in times will be announced at the Cooks Meeting.

Does this mean I can't be sure when the turn in times are until I attend a cooks meeting? Does this give the organizers an opporunity to change the turn in times at the last minute? I would rather the turn-in times be "in stone" at time of sanctioning.

ique
02-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Pork comes off and satys off. Want 2 temps cook 2 butts. This whole discussion has been ridiculous at best.

Why keep bringing it up then?

monty3777
02-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Who cares if it's cooked with a stick burner or propane? Once it gets drowned in Blueshog, who's going to know the difference? (tongue only slightly in cheek)

KC_Bobby
02-04-2010, 12:51 PM
How many of the board members actively compete? Are Mike Lake and Gene Goycochea are the only two? Do either (or any of the others) compete more than 4-5 times a year?

I'm wondering if the majority of the board even realizes how big of change the chicken suggestions are - or not having set turn in times.

BBQ_Mayor
02-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Why add Propane? There is no purpose to it. Can you image these 10k cookers bringing their kitchen and Amana Ranges. Put the apron on Julia, where making a freaking cake!.

As for Ford. No reason to dis us upright charcoal cookers. It's a little harsh calling us small upright cooker cooks, idiots and drunks and I represent that comment.

WineMaster
02-04-2010, 01:15 PM
Why add Propane? There is no purpose to it. Can you image these 10k cookers bringing their kitchen and Amana Ranges. Put the apron on Julia, where making a freaking cake!.

As for Ford. No reason to dis us upright charcoal cookers. It's a little harsh calling us small upright cooker cooks, idiots and drunks and I represent that comment.

I second that!!!!!!!

Lakeside Smoker
02-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Chicken of the people present requested a change to both white and dark meat be a requirement. Motion if we can come to a recommendation.

Can someone please tell me how many people 3/4 of the people present is?

Thanks
-Mike

Ford
02-04-2010, 01:48 PM
The one that caught my attention was:

Change to Rule 11
Judging typically starts at Noon on Saturday, but could vary at any contest.
Turn-in times will be announced at the Cooks Meeting.

Does this mean I can't be sure when the turn in times are until I attend a cooks meeting? Does this give the organizers an opporunity to change the turn in times at the last minute? I would rather the turn-in times be "in stone" at time of sanctioning.
I have a real problem with this one. I now understand why the BOD wants to change it but don't agree with their wording. I hope they rethink the wording. Sugggest you write them. I'm thinking this one may pass as of now.

Who cares if it's cooked with a stick burner or propane? Once it gets drowned in Blueshog, who's going to know the difference? (tongue only slightly in cheek)
Good thing I don't use Blues Hog and still win. But you're right.

Ford
02-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Why add Propane? There is no purpose to it. Can you image these 10k cookers bringing their kitchen and Amana Ranges. Put the apron on Julia, where making a freaking cake!.

As for Ford. No reason to dis us upright charcoal cookers. It's a little harsh calling us small upright cooker cooks, idiots and drunks and I represent that comment.
My apologies. Not meant to slander all but only the few idiots that get drunk and try to play with fire. This relates back to an early post about drunks and propane. I think propane is safer than drunks with open fires that can be knocked over. People who get falling down drunk should stay away from the fire during the night no matter what the fuel source.

Diva
02-04-2010, 03:04 PM
Chicken of the people present requested a change to both white and dark meat be a requirement. Motion if we can come to a recommendation.

Can someone please tell me how many people 3/4 of the people present is?

Thanks
-Mike

It wasn't 3/4's....

If they only had 207 people that attended the banquet, I'd find it hard to say there were more than 70 people there.

Jeff_in_KC
02-04-2010, 03:15 PM
How many cooks were at the rules meeting and was it a fair representation of the KCBS cooks from across the nation?

Oh HELL NO!!! In fact, I'd guess the room was 70% judges, reps and organizers and 30% cooks anyway. Once again, non-cooks making rules for cooks is bullchit!

Jeff_in_KC
02-04-2010, 03:17 PM
It wasn't 3/4's....

If they only had 207 people that attended the banquet, I'd find it hard to say there were more than 70 people there.

And of those 70 or so, most were organizers, reps and judges. If we get this crap shoved down our throats, it will be one of the biggest farces KCBS has come up with yet!

goodsmokebbq
02-04-2010, 03:36 PM
And of those 70 or so, most were organizers, reps and judges. If we get this crap shoved down our throats, it will be one of the biggest farces KCBS has come up with yet!


Yep, only a handful of cooks...

Lakeside Smoker
02-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the insight.
Where did this whole chicken thing come from? I stay on top of all the hot topics and discussions on comp BBQ and this is the first time I'm hearing ANYTHING on this issue. Cook any part of the chicken you want (whole or not) and turn in 6 pieces. What's so difficult about that?

-Mike

Pig Headed
02-04-2010, 04:04 PM
I was at the rules meeting in Philly and I remember the chicken change being proposed by Paul Kirk. Paul said "We don't have a chicken category, we have a thigh category" He went on to say that dark and white meat should be submitted and if someone wanted to submit 6 thighs, then they would have to cook 3 whole chickens to get them. The vast majority voted this down, as others stood up and said in their part of the country, legs do fine and in others, wings hold their own.

The elimination of garnish was supported by the majority, as many said it's wasteful to throw away all that parsley and lettuce.

When the propane issue was brought up, it too was voted down.

I don't understand the complete opposite being proposed to the board.

crd26a
02-04-2010, 04:10 PM
I was at the rules meeting in Philly and I remember the chicken change proposed by Paul Kirk being rebuffed by the vast majority as well as the porposed propane. The elimination of garnish was supported by the majority. I don't understand the complete opposite being proposed to the board.

Paul outline the reasons for this in his report

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
02-04-2010, 04:48 PM
The one that caught my attention was:

Change to Rule 11
Judging typically starts at Noon on Saturday, but could vary at any contest.
Turn-in times will be announced at the Cooks Meeting.

Does this mean I can't be sure when the turn in times are until I attend a cooks meeting? Does this give the organizers an opporunity to change the turn in times at the last minute? I would rather the turn-in times be "in stone" at time of sanctioning.


At the time of sanctioning is a bit extreme. Deposits have to be made by Dec 1 of the prior year for that years contest for sanctioning. Our contest is in September. While the turn in times have never been anything other than typical, we havent even met yet to decide ancillary categories etc....

lunchlady
02-04-2010, 04:57 PM
Are all those recommendations REALLY the opposite of what the crowd in the Rules Meeting raised their hands for?
(Granted, it was a small sliver of the whole Society, but the BoD knows that... whether they are in Philly, KC, Nashville, or anywhere else the Annual Rules meeting is held.)

...having a Philly moment... would that be 'documentation without representation' ...

ique
02-04-2010, 05:21 PM
At the time of sanctioning is a bit extreme. Deposits have to be made by Dec 1 of the prior year for that years contest for sanctioning. Our contest is in September. While the turn in times have never been anything other than typical, we havent even met yet to decide ancillary categories etc....

Thats cool, how about well in advance then

WineMaster
02-04-2010, 05:25 PM
The 4 meats should always be at the normal times. Extra categories matter less.

Ford
02-04-2010, 05:31 PM
They are working on better wording for the turn in time change. I understand why they want to do it so I guess we'll wait and see what gets passed. After all at the end of the day the organizer is paying the money to us cooks so we may not like changes but may have to accept some.

HoDeDo
02-04-2010, 07:59 PM
Pork comes off and satys off. Want 2 temps cook 2 butts. This whole discussion has been ridiculous at best. And don't say we part Brisket and put it back on. You can ccok flats, packers so parting is legal. the rule calls for a whole butt not pieces so parting is illegal. :evil:

EDIT: wow, sorry, this ended up a paragraph. But havent gotten to share in a while :-P The rule change is silly... it is too broad. Everyone gets the "cook 2 butts" issue. But once they are sliced/pulled/chopped, some cooks like to put sauce on the prepared pieces, and set the sauce in the cooker for turn in. This wording does not allow those cooks to do that. What is asinine is that someone would say that is "cooking"... 15 min in the cooker before turnin is not doing any additional cooking. And if that is where they are going - why not extend it to brisket... we can cook flats or packers... not slices. So if you put slices in the cooker sauced, or in aujus etc... you are not cooking a packer or flat so keep it out of the cooker once it is sliced, etc... That line of thinking is just crazy. Obviously we dont want to go in that direction. It is silly for pork, chicken, ribs, or brisket. It is gross over extension of the rule as it is written... and adjusting the rule to make that parts of it... is even worse.

It does not effect me - I dont set my sauce on the meat, heck I still ended up 19th in pork for KCBS this year... so my scores are fine. But if I cook two butts, slice one and pull one... I should be able to sauce and set them just like all the other meats. It is inconsistent and incredibly silly.

As for Ford. No reason to dis us upright charcoal cookers. It's a little harsh calling us small upright cooker cooks, idiots and drunks and I represent that comment. I wish someone would dis us pellet cooking, big trailer having, family and dog toting cookers.., who drink too much, have way to much fun, and still compete to boot! we make up at least 1.456% of the cooks out there :icon_cool

They are working on better wording for the turn in time change. I understand why they want to do it so I guess we'll wait and see what gets passed. After all at the end of the day the organizer is paying the money to us cooks so we may not like changes but may have to accept some.

Ford, can you elaborate what the change is for? I thought the existing wording gave them the freedom to change things up if needed. ( to address ancillary catagory needs, or other activity) I've had some start at 11am, some start a 1pm.... and I know one contest in cali, got permission to have a split turnin at two different times completely.

Have there been timing issues or something to drive the request. I'm just unaware of the reasoning, I'd love your insight - you usually are in the know on this stuff.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
02-04-2010, 08:17 PM
remember Im an idiot, but.........

do rule changes = evolution?

I played beach volleyball on the "local" circut and the sanctioning body changed a rule. (original) the ball could not touch the net during a serve.
(new) as long as the ball went over the net during the serve it was good. People yelled and screamed about the change , while the better teams adapted and used the new rules to their advantage the average teams complained.... what good teams/players do...adapt.control,conquer and win...isnt this kinda the same? hit the net and make the ball change direction and freak out the other team...

sorry if this doesnt make sense to anyone else but me..thank you for your time...

Sal

HoDeDo
02-04-2010, 08:29 PM
do rule changes = evolution?

I played beach volleyball on the "local" circut and the sanctioning body changed a rule. (original) the ball could not touch the net during a serve.
(new) as long as the ball went over the net during the serve it was good. People yelled and screamed about the change , while the better teams adapted and used the new rules to their advantage the average teams complained.... what good teams/players do...adapt.control,conquer and win...isnt this kinda the same? hit the net and make the ball change direction and freak out the other team...
sorry if this doesnt make sense to anyone else but me..thank you for your time...Sal

It does make sense... but I would not say all rule changes = evolution. A change made to include something new, or take into account something new different, be more inclusive, etc... something that actually "Evolves"...

I think it is fair to be able to ask for what about the rule is evolving... or is it just a rule for the sake of being a rule. I'm all for evolution. I'm sure they had a good reason for allowing those serves to stand if they made it over the net... If someone had a valid reason that shows what is evolving thanks to the change.... then I am all for it.

Candy Sue
02-04-2010, 08:40 PM
How many of the board members actively compete? Are Mike Lake and Gene Goycochea are the only two? Do either (or any of the others) compete more than 4-5 times a year?

I'm wondering if the majority of the board even realizes how big of change the chicken suggestions are - or not having set turn in times.

I cooked 17 KCBS contests last year and 1 IBCA. I'm the only newbie on the board and I'm reading everything said here. Oh, and I attended the rules meeting too.

Ford
02-04-2010, 08:59 PM
I was told by multiple BOD members that last minute changes are sometimes reruired by the media. Local or national. It's based on availability of camera crews and it's good publicity for the organizer so they want to be able to do it.

I have no problem with that but as an exception not a rule of last minute notification. Apparently at one contest a change was made last minute and not properly communicated to cooks. Blame the Rep or organizer but it shouldn't require a rule change like this. Somebody didn't do their job or contracted sanctioning agreement.

HoDeDo
02-04-2010, 09:05 PM
I was told by multiple BOD members that last minute changes are sometimes reruired by the media. Local or national. It's based on availability of camera crews and it's good publicity for the organizer so they want to be able to do it.

I have no problem with that but as an exception not a rule of last minute notification. Apparently at one contest a change was made last minute and not properly communicated to cooks. Blame the Rep or organizer but it shouldn't require a rule change like this. Somebody didn't do their job or contracted sanctioning agreement.

Thanks, I can see that ... but I agree with your assessment. Not sure it needs a rule change. Folks just need to do thier jobs right.:wink:

Jeff_in_KC
02-04-2010, 10:26 PM
Candy, you being there, you know a lot of these proposed changes are bullchit and that wasn't the way things went down! Now's the time to go to battle for us cookers! Do what you did in the rules meeting and don't back down! I wish like hell I was there with you to help stand up but instead you got Paul. Maybe he won't report. This crap is EXACTLY what I was talking about for almost five months. Some of these people are so out of touch with actual competing that they shouldn't be within the same ZIP code as where any rule making is going on!

KC_Bobby
02-04-2010, 11:15 PM
I cooked 17 KCBS contests last year and 1 IBCA. I'm the only newbie on the board and I'm reading everything said here. Oh, and I attended the rules meeting too.

I knew that - not how many, but knew you were a cook. You being new, I forgot you were on the board - sorry 'bout that.

Like Jeff said, fight the fight - make sure the non-cooks understand the importance of cooks knowing time schedules before we start prepping and voting on a chicken rule change isn't something that makes sense. By that logic, we'll have to cook the whole hog for ribs and shoulder and a side of beef to get some slices of brisket.

tmcmaster
02-05-2010, 01:51 AM
Would it be so hard for the board to require (for major rule changes involving cooks) that at least a certain number of the present votes be from active cooks? It might not be a logistical possibility to be there in person, but a teleconference vote or a WebEx like voting option is easy enough to set up. I mean, heck, I voted for Jeff for the BoD on-line, why not allow cooks to vote on rule changes in the same fashion?

Plowboy
02-05-2010, 09:20 AM
Would it be so hard for the board to require (for major rule changes involving cooks) that at least a certain number of the present votes be from active cooks? It might not be a logistical possibility to be there in person, but a teleconference vote or a WebEx like voting option is easy enough to set up. I mean, heck, I voted for Jeff for the BoD on-line, why not allow cooks to vote on rule changes in the same fashion?

How does KCBS know whether a member is a cook or not?

<WARNING: Rhetorical question... they don't.>

Ford
02-05-2010, 10:06 AM
How does KCBS know whether a member is a cook or not?

<WARNING: Rhetorical question... they don't.>
Bang on but if it's on the annual election ballot then cooks and judges (remember they have a say in rules as well) would be more likely to vote on these issues and non competition folks probably wouldn't vote unless a friend that is a competition cook asked them to vote on an issue. Not perfect but certainly better than the rules meeting concept today.

I remember a few years back we had the toss the garnish website and at the rules meeting a petition with 170 or so votes was submitted and they wanted it to count as part of the vote for a rule change to toss the garnish. Well it didn't count (no way to validate KCBS membership) and it didn't matter because at the end of the day a majority of the BOD will decide any rule changes.

lunchlady
02-05-2010, 11:56 AM
I posted this on another forum, but I may have had a moment of clarity so I thought I'd throw it on here too...

I kinda 'jumped in' but try to follow along... :twisted:

...has everything to do with the members communicating to the KCBS RULES COMMITTEE, and the Rules Committee communicating to the BoD. If there were more people attending the Rules Mtg, more people would get their voices heard, and maybe then we would feel better represented.
We all know that the meeting is held in conjunction with the Annual Banquet. PLAN FOR IT, regardless of where it is held. And if you can't possibly get there, send an e-mail or letter to the committee members beforehand.

The Rules Committee, on the other hand, has the responsibility to LISTEN and RESPOND. That becomes their job when they are assigned to the committee.
This is one reason that I, and many others, feel as though more non-BoD members should be on these sub-committees. A more thorough representation of the membership.

It comes down to making our voices heard, and having our views supported and REPRESENTED by the people we elect.
If people don't vote and/or communicate, then the system will not work the way it is designed.
thanks ...
michelle

Plowboy
02-05-2010, 12:56 PM
I posted this on another forum, but I may have had a moment of clarity so I thought I'd throw it on here too...

I kinda 'jumped in' but try to follow along... :twisted:

...has everything to do with the members communicating to the KCBS RULES COMMITTEE, and the Rules Committee communicating to the BoD. If there were more people attending the Rules Mtg, more people would get their voices heard, and maybe then we would feel better represented.
We all know that the meeting is held in conjunction with the Annual Banquet. PLAN FOR IT, regardless of where it is held. And if you can't possibly get there, send an e-mail or letter to the committee members beforehand.

The Rules Committee, on the other hand, has the responsibility to LISTEN and RESPOND. That becomes their job when they are assigned to the committee.
This is one reason that I, and many others, feel as though more non-BoD members should be on these sub-committees. A more thorough representation of the membership.

It comes down to making our voices heard, and having our views supported and REPRESENTED by the people we elect.
If people don't vote and/or communicate, then the system will not work the way it is designed.
thanks ...
michelle

Problem #1 - Who are the members of the rules committee? We know who the chair is, but I may be sitting next to someone on the committee and never know it. KCBS needs to publish committee members and publish openings/needs for committees. This has been determined as an appropriate strategy from my unofficial committee on committees.

Problem #2 - The rules meeting is a inadequate vehicle for feedback. It holds way too small of a sampling. More or less... it is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

KC_Bobby
02-05-2010, 01:15 PM
Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

Ain't that the truth. Around the comps I've been to, it seems more likely than not the site has internet access in some capacity - laptop and/or cell phone. I don't have the hard numbers of how many members have internet access at home, but we know only 4 election ballets were requested. Seems to me that the active KCBS member is online. Seems the board would easily get feedback to proposals if they would set up surveys - which members could opt-in to get. And members could opt in to receive notifications about different subjects - competitions, rules, judging, recipes, sponsorship offers, etc.

crd26a
02-05-2010, 01:18 PM
Problem #1 - Who are the members of the rules committee? We know who the chair is, but I may be sitting next to someone on the committee and never know it. KCBS needs to publish committee members and publish openings/needs for committees. This has been determined as an appropriate strategy from my unofficial committee on committees.

Problem #2 - The rules meeting is a inadequate vehicle for feedback. It holds way too small of a sampling. More or less... it is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

Todd for KCBS BOD

Jorge
02-05-2010, 01:19 PM
OK, Toddy and Bobby KCBS 2011!

Plowboy
02-05-2010, 01:24 PM
OK, Toddy and Bobby KCBS 2011!

Whatever, Jorgy.

KC_Bobby
02-05-2010, 01:43 PM
Did someone say Jorgy? I feel dirty just typing that.

(BTW, I still think our KCBS team pages are going to show team results this year. At least they should. Based on the Bullsheet meeting reports, the pages are set up by the database and it would be easy to add.)

WineMaster
02-05-2010, 01:45 PM
OK, Toddy and Bobby KCBS 2011!

Whoever, But the

Kirk
Competition
Barbeque
Society

Has to go!

lunchlady
02-05-2010, 03:50 PM
I see some scrubbing in this threads future....

ThomEmery
02-05-2010, 04:32 PM
You mean people can talk to each other, plan and discuss ideas on the web?
Who would da thunk?

lunchlady
02-05-2010, 04:43 PM
i just meant ... no bad karma... shutting up now. ya right

Ford
02-05-2010, 04:47 PM
Whoever, But the

Kirk
Competition
Barbeque
Society

Has to go!
Do you know Paul Kirk? Why do you say he has to go? Maybe some people on this site need to be sending Paul emails asking him why he is doing things the way he does. But make no doubt about it the membership just re-elected him for another 3 year term so instead of basjhing him maybe you need to figure out how to make productive suggestions on what he can do better. If he got a thousand emails about "no report" then maybe we'd see more reports.

And there's an easy way around "no report" and I am going to send the current BOD members an email suggesting they consider implementing it. Instead of "no report" say "Will be reporting on the current status of our committee activities". then in the meeting "say we are continuing to investigate ... it's a long process to complete but we are making some progress".

Jeff_in_KC
02-05-2010, 04:51 PM
Ford, why in the heck would you provide the Board with another way to hide behind words and avoid doing the job it's supposed to do?

Ford
02-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Ford, why in the heck would you provide the Board with another way to hide behind words and avoid doing the job it's supposed to do?
Why does everybody bash a no report? There's a lot of committees that should probavly only report annually. And some members raise an agenda topic rather than doing a report. I've seen that a number of times.

Some committees need to report monthly, especially finance but I don't see people bashing the treasurer like other BOD members. There's a lot of selective bashing going on.

Candy Sue
02-05-2010, 05:13 PM
I have a thought <scary!> since it's likely that any substantive rules will have deferred implementation until January 2011, what about have reps at contests with questionnaires (multiple guess even) getting MEMBER cook team input. Contest evals are passed out now, it'd just be another piece of paper available at a contest. It could be on line for completion with a membership number. Must be a member to have your input matter. Might even get more cooks to join???

I have 15 minutes before I'll be off the computer...is this good or bad?

ThomEmery
02-05-2010, 05:22 PM
Maybe Candy But why not have a KCBS Members online forum where input is coming in daily?

ThomEmery
02-05-2010, 05:24 PM
Why does everybody bash a no report? There's a lot of committees that should probavly only report annually. And some members raise an agenda topic rather than doing a report. I've seen that a number of times.

Some committees need to report monthly, especially finance but I don't see people bashing the treasurer like other BOD members. There's a lot of selective bashing going on.

Ford LOL
Yes no No Report would be the case some months just not every month

HoDeDo
02-05-2010, 06:19 PM
I'd like to report there is nothing new to report

Scottie
02-05-2010, 06:46 PM
I'd like to report there is nothing new to report



Starting to sound like Monty Python's... Not sure if that is a good thing though...

Yakfishingfool
02-05-2010, 08:36 PM
No report infers no work and no work is not what members want to hear. If I had one of my committee chairs reporting month after month with "no report" as chairman I'd be a bit concerned, as a member I'd be pretty po'd. The truth is a report takes 10, maybe 15 minutes, what's the big deal??? And if there is nothing going on this month, then at least hit where you are with current projects and sound excited about the future.

SaucyWench
02-05-2010, 09:11 PM
Going back to the possible chicken rule change, if cooks have to put in both dark & white meat, how would that affect judging? Each judge is required to try both? What if the dark meat is perfectly cooked, tender & juicy, but the white meat is dry? So we average it out and the score goes down. I can't see how this would please anyone.
I'm all for variety in chicken entries, but I think it should be up to the competitor to decide what he or she would like to turn in.

billygbob
02-05-2010, 09:13 PM
I like livers. Can we get livers?

ThomEmery
02-05-2010, 10:26 PM
Gizzards also

KC_Bobby
02-05-2010, 10:39 PM
Going back to the possible chicken rule change, if cooks have to put in both dark & white meat, how would that affect judging? Each judge is required to try both? What if the dark meat is perfectly cooked, tender & juicy, but the white meat is dry? So we average it out and the score goes down. I can't see how this would please anyone.
I'm all for variety in chicken entries, but I think it should be up to the competitor to decide what he or she would like to turn in.

My gut says some judges would treat it that way, others would give the score of the worst one. Kinda similar to my belief on putting in burnt ends in the brisket - they better be at least as good as the slices or they don't go in.

Would we need to start turning in baby back and spares?

papa bear
02-06-2010, 12:50 AM
That's just great. The KCBS wants to add propane so they can get Hank Hill as a sponsor.

tmcmaster
02-06-2010, 07:53 AM
How does KCBS know whether a member is a cook or not?

<WARNING: Rhetorical question... they don't.>
That's actually pretty easy. You need to provide a KCBS member number and team name to be counted. Maybe it isn't "perfect" but it is a far better indicator of who is a comp cook as opposed to who is just a member.

And I only suggest that exclusivity on rules that directly affect the competition cooks.

Spydermike72
02-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Any word on last nights meeting ??

Buster Dog BBQ
02-06-2010, 08:20 AM
With the capabilities of ustream and some other programs which stream video/audio for FREE, it is sad that KCBS wont't use any of these technologies.

Bbq Bubba
02-06-2010, 08:20 AM
Any word on last nights meeting ??

It's official.....

No report.

Jeff_in_KC
02-06-2010, 04:08 PM
No report infers no work and no work is not what members want to hear.

Apparently it is... at least for 1,006 members.

Jeff_in_KC
02-06-2010, 04:16 PM
Why does everybody bash a no report? There's a lot of committees that should probavly only report annually. And some members raise an agenda topic rather than doing a report. I've seen that a number of times.

Some committees need to report monthly, especially finance but I don't see people bashing the treasurer like other BOD members. There's a lot of selective bashing going on.

Because, Ford, certain members NEVER report. I believe the term "educate" or "teach" is in the KCBS mission statement yet the person responsible for the Education committee has reported about 6 or 7 times in the last two years based on the research someone did prior to the election. An occasional "No Report" can be overlooked. Someone who doesn't appear to really care and appears to only be on the Board to sell books by being more visible and who rarely reports anything SHOULD be bashed by all members. We're not getting our money's worth from him. Perception IS reality.

Plowboy
02-06-2010, 06:59 PM
That's actually pretty easy. You need to provide a KCBS member number and team name to be counted. Maybe it isn't "perfect" but it is a far better indicator of who is a comp cook as opposed to who is just a member.

And I only suggest that exclusivity on rules that directly affect the competition cooks.

So I just need to give a member number an any team name? So if I have a personal agenda and I want to stuff the ballot box, I get all of my non-cook friends to mention Pork Pullin Plowboys. There, you have a member number and a team name.

Actually, any member could say that they are a part of any team. Doesn't make them a cook.

Rookie'48
02-06-2010, 09:45 PM
Yes, it should - just like skin on / off, if presented with skin on then the judge should at least taste the skin. Judge it as presented by the cook.

[QUOTE=tmcmaster;1171464]... You need to provide a KCBS member number and team name to be counted. Maybe it isn't "perfect" but it is a far better indicator of who is a comp cook as opposed to who is just a member.

And I only suggest that exclusivity on rules that directly affect the competition cooks.

What about cooks who judge or judges that cook? Some cooks will judge once or twice a year just as there are judges who can only afford to cook once or twice a year. Where would these folks fall?

tmcmaster
02-07-2010, 06:58 AM
So I just need to give a member number an any team name? So if I have a personal agenda and I want to stuff the ballot box, I get all of my non-cook friends to mention Pork Pullin Plowboys. There, you have a member number and a team name.

Actually, any member could say that they are a part of any team. Doesn't make them a cook.
I guess if you WANTED to there wouldn't be anything stopping you. However, that seems horribly immoral to me. I was under the impression that reason for the existence of the KCBS in the first place was "promoting and enjoying barbeque" not "enriching ones personal fortunes and screwing others that you may have an agenda against."

But, I could be wrong.

Lake Dogs
02-07-2010, 07:16 AM
> What about cooks who judge or judges that cook? Some cooks will judge once or twice a year just as there are judges who can only afford to cook once or twice a year. Where would these folks fall?


Bunch of darned inbred ********! Shoot us. Shoot us all. Quick solution.
:-)

tmcmaster
02-07-2010, 07:30 AM
Yes, it should - just like skin on / off, if presented with skin on then the judge should at least taste the skin. Judge it as presented by the cook.



What about cooks who judge or judges that cook? Some cooks will judge once or twice a year just as there are judges who can only afford to cook once or twice a year. Where would these folks fall?
Valid points. However, the answer is simple. Much like an actual electorial primary, you must delacre one or the other to vote on such specific matters. Nto the general day-to-day votes, but on things that directly impact cooks, to vote on them, you must be a declared cook. Sort of like how Democrats are not able to vote in Republican primary elections, and vise versa, but in a general election there isn't such a restriction.

Again, I am just throwing things out the see what sticks... :icon_shy

C-Town Smoker
02-07-2010, 09:28 AM
With the capabilities of ustream and some other programs which stream video/audio for FREE, it is sad that KCBS wont't use any of these technologies.

I am going to guess that they are concerned with just ANYONE being able to jump in to the meeting...I'm not sure but I don't think there is a way to only offer views to members only...or any way to check/verify that through Ustream or the other free services...that being said, I mentioned using Ustream about 2 months ago or so to let people look in on the meeting...I mean why not!??

I am working on an interview with Mike Lake...I'll ask him about that...as well as the other items that were on the minutes of this past meeting!

HoDeDo
02-07-2010, 09:56 AM
I guess if you WANTED to there wouldn't be anything stopping you. However, that seems horribly immoral to me. I was under the impression that reason for the existence of the KCBS in the first place was "promoting and enjoying barbeque" not "enriching ones personal fortunes and screwing others that you may have an agenda against."

But, I could be wrong.

The original reason it existed, and what is actually in practice are two different things.

Ford
02-07-2010, 10:51 AM
All members should have the right to vote. cooks, judges or backyard cooks are all equal in the KCBS. Now if want to propose a neww class of membership for "cooks" then I'm all in favor of it. Let's say if you register as a cook there's an additional $50 fee per year in order to pay for all the extra work done for contests to exist. Then there could be issues on ballots for cooks only and an online forum for cooks only to discuss issues and rules.

I like this. That way we wouldn't need all this crap on this site and the cooks would have a private Froum to discuss issues without having anybody and everybody stir the pot.

I'm ranting now and I'm just so tired of the BOD bashing right after an election where the people voted. this is worse that Al Gore losing Florida. I'll go to the penalty box now for 15 minutes.

tmcmaster
02-07-2010, 12:12 PM
All members should have the right to vote. cooks, judges or backyard cooks are all equal in the KCBS. Now if want to propose a neww class of membership for "cooks" then I'm all in favor of it. Let's say if you register as a cook there's an additional $50 fee per year in order to pay for all the extra work done for contests to exist. Then there could be issues on ballots for cooks only and an online forum for cooks only to discuss issues and rules.
I agree and disagree. I don't think that just anyone should be able to vote on something that directly impacts me or any other cooks in how we compete, what it costs to compete and the rules under which we compete. But, again, I see that all are equal in the KCBS. But, I also think that some are more equal than others.

I like this. That way we wouldn't need all this crap on this site and the cooks would have a private Froum to discuss issues without having anybody and everybody stir the pot.
Agree again.

I'm ranting now and I'm just so tired of the BOD bashing right after an election where the people voted. this is worse that Al Gore losing Florida. I'll go to the penalty box now for 15 minutes.
I'll see you there!:lol:

Plowboy
02-07-2010, 01:27 PM
I guess if you WANTED to there wouldn't be anything stopping you. However, that seems horribly immoral to me. I was under the impression that reason for the existence of the KCBS in the first place was "promoting and enjoying barbeque" not "enriching ones personal fortunes and screwing others that you may have an agenda against."

But, I could be wrong.

Don't underestimate the politics in this organization.

Jorge
02-07-2010, 01:28 PM
Don't underestimate the politics in this organization.

Surely you jest?:wink:

tmcmaster
02-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Don't underestimate the politics in this organization.
I am trying really REALLY hard to give everyone the benefit of the doubt...