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View Full Version : Cooking structure for contest with High Heat.


Mo-Dave
02-01-2010, 11:27 AM
Ok this may be in the wrong place but If one cooks high heat brisket at a contest and only has one cooker, how do you deal with the other meats? It would seem you would have to do them all high heat as well.
Dave

SirPorkaLot
02-01-2010, 01:08 PM
Ok this may be in the wrong place but If one cooks high heat brisket at a contest and only has one cooker, how do you deal with the other meats? It would seem you would have to do them all high heat as well.
Dave

Get/borrow another cooker.
I wouldn't recommend a hot & fast for pork shoulder

Mo-Dave
02-01-2010, 01:33 PM
Get/borrow another cooker.
I wouldn't recommend a hot & fast for pork shoulder


Well I was thinking butts may be the problem meat ribs, brisket and chicken not as much.
Dave

BigdogEMT
02-01-2010, 02:06 PM
+1 on getting another cooker!

Where are you doing this contest?
Terry

Mo-Dave
02-01-2010, 02:26 PM
+1 on getting another cooker!

Where are you doing this contest?
Terry

Its a hard disscision to make but I am looking at Capital City cookoff in Jefferson City. Do you do contest?
Dave

BigdogEMT
02-01-2010, 04:25 PM
No! Not yet anyway! But I was looking at a contest in Lebanon that you have to start at 8 am and done at noon!! WTF no low and slow here!

Terry

Ps: I live in Lebanon but work up at the lake. You might say that if you called 911 we might meet face to face!

E Mellow
02-01-2010, 04:44 PM
Its all of nothing with one cooker. Good luck if you go to Jeff City.

bigabyte
02-02-2010, 12:22 AM
Yep, get another cooker.:wink:

BigdogEMT
02-02-2010, 05:56 PM
Just a question, but how does Myron do his butts? All he does is "hot and fast"!

Terry

swamprb
02-02-2010, 07:16 PM
Hot Cambro and a prayer.

Jeff Hughes
02-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I wouldn't recommend a hot & fast for pork shoulder

Why not? Hot and fast works just as well for pork as it does brisket....

SirPorkaLot
02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Why not? Hot and fast works just as well for pork as it does brisket....


It may work well, but I don't have any experience with a good pork shoulder that was cooked hot & fast (i have tried several cooked by others that were supposedly good).

Therefore I personally cannot recommend pork shoulder cooked in that manner.

The meat turns out ok..but the fat & connective tissues don't render properly in my experience, which is not as much of an issue with brisket.

Just my 2 cents..

It could also be a question of interpretation - what do you consider hot & fast?

Jeff Hughes
02-03-2010, 10:08 AM
300-325 is hot and fast in my book...

I walk regularly cooking pork that way...

SirPorkaLot
02-03-2010, 10:17 AM
300-325 is hot and fast in my book...

I walk regularly cooking pork that way...

Well brother.. I never claimed to know everything :rolleyes:

Seems like I could learn a lot from you, as I have not seen this pulled off successfully with shoulder.

Pork loin yes, shoulder no.

Questions:

Do you have to be real selective in the meat you pick to put in the box, due to the amount of fat left? or does your method render all that down like my low & slow method does?

For how long at 300-325?

roksmith
02-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Not being a member of the hot and fast club, I can only render my best guess for how Myron can be so successful with 4 hour butts and 5 hour briskets.

My guess is the key is what he always stresses as quality meat. For brisket, he's referring to his beloved Waygu, and for pork.. while I haven't heard him refer to a specific breed, I would guess he prefers something like a Berkshire Hog butt.

Both breeds have 2 things in common (if raised properly).. The meat has the marbling of a good ribeye steak. And the price.

The typical butt and brisket that I deal with usually has large hunks of fat surrounding large chunks of lean(ish) meat which is why it takes a low and slow cooking method to get the fat to render and get absorbed by the meat.
A nice waygu brisket or berkshire butt have thin ribbons of fat thru-out the meat.

I'm assuming that if the meat is marbled like a good steak, you can cook it nice and fast like a good steak.

..'course I guess the other method is to jack it full of as much moisture and moisture maintaining chemicals as you can and crank it thru the pit... cover it with tender-quick and call it bbq.
You only need a few good nuggets and/or slices out of a pretty big piece of meat to walk anways :)

I still prefer a low and slow Q personally, but whatever flips yer lid.

monty3777
02-03-2010, 12:55 PM
You could simply choose a middle temp and cook everything at 300 - pull the briskets and butts, then cook the ribs and chicken as the pork and brisket are resting in a cooler or cambro. BTW, you can start briskets and butts at 350 - but then bring the temps down to 300 for the final hours. That would allow you to cook high on the big meats then cook chicken and ribs at 300.

Mo-Dave
02-03-2010, 12:58 PM
You could simply choose a middle temp and cook everything at 300 - pull the briskets and butts, then cook the ribs and chicken as the pork and brisket are resting in a cooler or cambro. BTW, you can start briskets and butts at 350 - but then bring the temps down to 300 for the final hours. That would allow you to cook high on the big meats then cook chicken and ribs at 300.


That sounds like a plan I could deal with on one cooker.
Dave

Brew-B-Q
02-03-2010, 01:04 PM
I've done butts at 325-350 at home, but never in a comp. The outer parts are just fine, and I think I could pull enough chunks to get in a box. The interior doesn't seem to render as well, but it still tastes fine. Just need to pull more fat off the meat when shredding. It works when I'm in a hurry.

Mo-Dave
02-03-2010, 01:14 PM
I've done butts at 325-350 at home, but never in a comp. The outer parts are just fine, and I think I could pull enough chunks to get in a box. The interior doesn't seem to render as well, but it still tastes fine. Just need to pull more fat off the meat when shredding. It works when I'm in a hurry.


What if you semi parted the butt without completely cutting it into two separate section per kcbs rules.
Dave

Southern Home Boy
02-03-2010, 01:18 PM
I'm with the "Get another cooker" crowd. In my last comp. I used my offset smoker for the brisket, chicken and ribs, and used a Weber Kettle for the Butt.

Everything worked pretty well.

Jeff Hughes
02-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Well brother.. I never claimed to know everything :rolleyes:

Seems like I could learn a lot from you, as I have not seen this pulled off successfully with shoulder.

Pork loin yes, shoulder no.

Questions:

Do you have to be real selective in the meat you pick to put in the box, due to the amount of fat left? or does your method render all that down like my low & slow method does?

For how long at 300-325?

Butts go on at 5am, off 10 to 11. Fat rendering is good, maybe a little more gack than 12 hrs at 225, but nothing objectionable. I find I get a moister product hot and fast.

Brew-B-Q
02-03-2010, 03:14 PM
What if you semi parted the butt without completely cutting it into two separate section per kcbs rules.
Dave

I'm sure that would help, but it would also take up more room if space is a concern.

Mo-Dave
02-04-2010, 11:19 AM
I'm sure that would help, but it would also take up more room if space is a concern.

Space is no problem, I have a lg Spicewine.
Dave

Ford
02-04-2010, 11:41 AM
What if you semi parted the butt without completely cutting it into two separate section per kcbs rules.
Dave
Do a search on Candy Sue's butterfly technique for pork. It's more like a 3 piece cut. If you can hit the temp right on the money muscle and pull it then it looks great and slices great but won't pill. And for the record if you cook 2 butts to different temps for turn in you can part the money muscle on one before turn in and keep it hot outside the cooker and put the other piece back on so long as you don't use that part for turn in. So you can get the meat cooked for pulling by the end of turn in. Hope that makes sense. I know people are saying what do I do with this piece so it will pull later, well that's the answer.

Mo-Dave
02-04-2010, 11:49 AM
Do a search on Candy Sue's butterfly technique for pork. It's more like a 3 piece cut. If you can hit the temp right on the money muscle and pull it then it looks great and slices great but won't pill. And for the record if you cook 2 butts to different temps for turn in you can part the money muscle on one before turn in and keep it hot outside the cooker and put the other piece back on so long as you don't use that part for turn in. So you can get the meat cooked for pulling by the end of turn in. Hope that makes sense. I know people are saying what do I do with this piece so it will pull later, well that's the answer.

Thanks Ford I was just thinking along these same lines at work last night and think it sounds like a good way to go sense I usually do two butt anyway at a contest.
Dave

early mornin' smokin'
02-04-2010, 12:01 PM
so ford, you're saying i can pull one butt at when the MM is at 190, cut it off, and return that butt to the cooker to finish cooking and still use that Butt to pull and turn in, i'm not trying to start a debate, or a war of words, so i'd just like to clarify this.

Brew-B-Q
02-04-2010, 12:26 PM
so ford, you're saying i can pull one butt at when the MM is at 190, cut it off, and return that butt to the cooker to finish cooking and still use that Butt to pull and turn in, i'm not trying to start a debate, or a war of words, so i'd just like to clarify this.

Turning in the butt that was parted and put back on the smoker is a violation. I am guessing Ford was referring to pulling it after turn-ins in case you want to take it home or give it away, not wasting 90% of the butt.

early mornin' smokin'
02-04-2010, 12:49 PM
im well aware that that is a violation, that is why I was asking for clarification from Ford.

Ron_L
02-04-2010, 01:48 PM
...and put the other piece back on so long as you don't use that part for turn in.

Here is the key part of what Ford said (emphasis is mine). He is suggesting putting the rest of that butt back in to finish cooking just so it is done when you leave the comp site.

Personally I would just take the rest of that butt and stick it in a cooler and finish it later just to avoid someone misinterpreting what i am doing.

Scottie
02-04-2010, 02:03 PM
Here is the key part of what Ford said (emphasis is mine). He is suggesting putting the rest of that butt back in to finish cooking just so it is done when you leave the comp site.

Personally I would just take the rest of that butt and stick it in a cooler and finish it later just to avoid someone misinterpreting what i am doing.


I agree Ron. You never know who might be watching your site (see shigging). And I sure ddon't want the hassle of explaining myself to a Rep, when I am trying to concentrate on my turn-ins...

The_Kapn
02-04-2010, 02:56 PM
When Chad and I cooked on his Kingfisher (stick burner), we cooked in the mid-300's for the Butts and Briskets.
Butts and Briskets both always came out just fine.
We had them off and into a hot box by 7AM or so and turned the heat down to upper 200's for ribs and chicken.
Worked wonderful.

TIM

River City Smokehouse
02-04-2010, 04:39 PM
Well I was thinking butts may be the problem meat ribs, brisket and chicken not as much.
Dave
Dave.....Spurgeon does his butts on the can hot'nfast. I think they were no more than 6 hours and maybe less.

DCFIREMANN
02-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Just a question, but how does Myron do his butts? All he does is "hot and fast"!

Terry

Myron does not do his shoulders hot and fast!

Be Safe

THE DAWG