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SMITTYtheSMOKER
01-24-2010, 05:19 PM
Pardon me if this has been discussed, but when will KCBS list the full ranks for 2009? I see PP ranks that simulate KCBS, but KCBS should add their ranks to their own site as well, right?

Buster Dog BBQ
01-24-2010, 05:23 PM
I read someplace they won't. But you can email Dawn @ kcbs and she can tell you where you ranked. Pickled pig was close on a couple but 10 spots off on another.

musicmanryann
01-24-2010, 06:45 PM
I read someplace they won't. But you can email Dawn @ kcbs and she can tell you where you ranked. Pickled pig was close on a couple but 10 spots off on another.


Any idea why not? They have previous years' results posted, why not this year?

Buster Dog BBQ
01-24-2010, 07:09 PM
Any idea why not? They have previous years' results posted, why not this year?
It was something to do with verifying members I believe. It was easier to do 25 then 4000.

SMITTYtheSMOKER
01-24-2010, 07:18 PM
Bad choice on their part. IMHO

Bbq Bubba
01-24-2010, 07:52 PM
Bad choice on their part. IMHO

Welcome to the KCBS.

HoDeDo
01-25-2010, 10:29 PM
I dont think they have ever showed "all" places, even in the previous years. It is just a subset. I do believe that the Dawn is happy to look up anything you would want though.

Plowboy
01-25-2010, 10:32 PM
I dont think they have ever showed "all" places, even in the previous years. It is just a subset. I do believe that the Dawn is happy to look up anything you would want though.

I think they have. Even before the points change, they listed everyone who got at least one point.

KC_Bobby
01-26-2010, 12:16 AM
I asked Dawn due to my curiosity. Even though it was a few days before the banquet she was going to be happy to help, but I told her not to worry about it and I'd follow up after the banquet (guess I should do that). She mentioned that it was quite time consuming.

ique
01-26-2010, 08:56 AM
I think they have. Even before the points change, they listed everyone who got at least one point.

Yeah, I agree in past years KCBS has posted full results.

DawgPhan
01-27-2010, 02:40 PM
I asked Dawn due to my curiosity. Even though it was a few days before the banquet she was going to be happy to help, but I told her not to worry about it and I'd follow up after the banquet (guess I should do that). She mentioned that it was quite time consuming.


I would imagine that it is quite time consuming because when you call and ask she calculates your points. Which seems to me if you didnt know how many points every team scored it would be tough to rank each team by their total points.

They created a giant mess by giving points to all teams at a contest. This is the result of that giant mess.

I would also guess that the reason that PPig is off on some of the rankings is because he uses a pattern matcher to match results to the existing teams and adds the points together. If a team is BBQ crew, Bar-Be-Que Crew, BarBQ Crew, bbq krewe, and BBQ Creew then the pattern matcher might miss the connection. So BBQ Crew might have points under several different team names. I know it happens to me and then the team has to email me when they notice it and I can combine all the teams together.

I really think that they should just let PPig handle the KCBS TOY rankings. He does a great job. But if Dawn really is calculating the TOY points when people call and ask, you have to wonder how they figured out who the top 25 teams were...did they just pick 50 teams they thought would be at the top and start calculating and tracking those teams and then sort them by point totals or did they calculate everyone all year and just sort by total. If they calculated everyone and have it all together, why does it take so much work and why not publish it?

musicmanryann
01-27-2010, 03:47 PM
But if Dawn really is calculating the TOY points when people call and ask, you have to wonder how they figured out who the top 25 teams were...did they just pick 50 teams they thought would be at the top and start calculating and tracking those teams and then sort them by point totals or did they calculate everyone all year and just sort by total. If they calculated everyone and have it all together, why does it take so much work and why not publish it?

This is what I have been wondering as well--merely out of curiosity, though. PP's is good enough for me.

Buster Dog BBQ
01-27-2010, 06:19 PM
I would imagine that it is quite time consuming because when you call and ask she calculates your points. Which seems to me if you didnt know how many points every team scored it would be tough to rank each team by their total points.

They created a giant mess by giving points to all teams at a contest. This is the result of that giant mess.

I would also guess that the reason that PPig is off on some of the rankings is because he uses a pattern matcher to match results to the existing teams and adds the points together. If a team is BBQ crew, Bar-Be-Que Crew, BarBQ Crew, bbq krewe, and BBQ Creew then the pattern matcher might miss the connection. So BBQ Crew might have points under several different team names. I know it happens to me and then the team has to email me when they notice it and I can combine all the teams together.

I really think that they should just let PPig handle the KCBS TOY rankings. He does a great job. But if Dawn really is calculating the TOY points when people call and ask, you have to wonder how they figured out who the top 25 teams were...did they just pick 50 teams they thought would be at the top and start calculating and tracking those teams and then sort them by point totals or did they calculate everyone all year and just sort by total. If they calculated everyone and have it all together, why does it take so much work and why not publish it?
I think they have all of them already and all she is doing is validating you are a member and then looking up your points. It took me less than 30 min from email sent to received to get them. It would be stupid to have to calculate all teams categories, etc for each request. All of that data is already contained in a database I'm sure.

DawgPhan
01-27-2010, 10:56 PM
I think they have all of them already and all she is doing is validating you are a member and then looking up your points. It took me less than 30 min from email sent to received to get them. It would be stupid to have to calculate all teams categories, etc for each request. All of that data is already contained in a database I'm sure.


Then why not publish it. Also what did you get? Did you get your ranking or how many points you earned in the TOY system?

But yes it would be stupid to calculate each request.

Buster Dog BBQ
01-28-2010, 08:09 AM
Then why not publish it. Also what did you get? Did you get your ranking or how many points you earned in the TOY system?

But yes it would be stupid to calculate each request.

If I understand what I think is correct, they would have to verifify all 4,000 plus teams are eligible for TOY and that is why the list is not published.

If you email dawn@kcbs.us and ask, they will send you a certificate with your placing. I read that in the last Bullsheet. I emailed her and asked for my points in each category and overall, which is what I received.

DawgPhan
01-28-2010, 09:02 AM
If I understand what I think is correct, they would have to verifify all 4,000 plus teams are eligible for TOY and that is why the list is not published.

If you email dawn@kcbs.us and ask, they will send you a certificate with your placing. I read that in the last Bullsheet. I emailed her and asked for my points in each category and overall, which is what I received.


They never had a problem publishing teams who weren't members in the past. They have always published the final numbers without regard to who was a member and who isnt. So if you are ranked behind several hundred none members do you move up or do you stay the same. This just offers zero transparency and certainly if they want to offer money and prizes based on these rankings you would think that a little transparency would be in order.

They create a system that requires a ton of work without thinking it through and now the whole reason of creating all the work in the first place is toss aside when it comes time to actually do the work.

Scottie
01-28-2010, 09:42 AM
Let's face it. This was a promise that was made at the KC banquet a few years ago by MMA. It was a production. I think the only problem was no research went into the idea. It sounded great but at what expense. Then last year, all of a sudden it became a huge free for all to cover someone's butt that made these dreams and/or ideaks. Depending if you are a half empty or full guy.

Now, it's dumped into the office staff's lap and are told. Make it work. I guess if we need to fault anyone. The entire BOD should be. They all dropped the ball. One member was leaving the BOD so why would he really care, even though it was his baby? I've also heard that the expense to do the program and/or pay PP is above what the BOD wanted to spend. Now that has all been second hand, so how much of that is true? I'll leave that up to you.


But I do know we have a new KCBS cookbook. So all is well.

*** some statements were made with toungue firmly planted. Others were truths. You decide... ;)


They create a system that requires a ton of work without thinking it through and now the whole reason of creating all the work in the first place is toss aside when it comes time to actually do the work.

ique
01-28-2010, 09:48 AM
If a team is BBQ crew, Bar-Be-Que Crew, BarBQ Crew, bbq krewe, and BBQ Creew then the pattern matcher might miss the connection.

If they used the Head Cooks KCBS member # this problem would be eliminated. So would the work of having to validate a person is a member before sharing the results.

DawgPhan
01-28-2010, 10:50 AM
If they used the Head Cooks KCBS member # this problem would be eliminated. So would the work of having to validate a person is a member before sharing the results.


Yeah I know. I told Troy Black that very thing when he called me and asked for my advice before rolling out the new team of the year points system a couple of years ago.

I told him that giving points to every team is going to create a lot of work and without a system to manage team IDs it is going to be a nightmare.

I guess that was late 2007 or very early in 2008.

I would think that for less than $10k KCBS could have a system setup that processed the result information directly from the scoring program to the website and post the results and the updated TOY standings. And for $10k it could happen before the big contests start up in March. it could have all the bells and whistles of pulling everything together and making the entire TOY points chase totally transparent. Seeing where each team earned every point.

And while KCBS isn't going to force people to use their ID number or even force them to have one, teams that are serious about TOY will make sure that their ID number is used and that the scoring program uses that number instead of the team name. Certainly they could match it up for awards, but to the system during judging it would just be a number.

But I also said I wasn't going to fix BBQ this year and I just wanted to have fun so dont hold me to any of this...

Alexa RnQ
01-28-2010, 11:26 AM
Yes, yes, and yes.

Absolutely, since ToY is a huge deal (and now with proposed money attached to it), there should be transparency.

Absolutely, the onus should be on each team to determine their goals regarding ToY, and either submit a head cook's KCBS# for tracking or not, accordingly.

Absolutely, the whole issue should be addressed expeditiously, before it becomes a giant cluster.

Alexa RnQ
02-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Update: Full-field rankings now published on KCBS site
http://www.kcbs.us/team-of-the-year.php

SMITTYtheSMOKER
02-01-2010, 08:57 PM
Nice job KCBS.

DawgPhan
02-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Update: Full-field rankings now published on KCBS site
http://www.kcbs.us/team-of-the-year.php


still half assed, but I guess no worse than previous years...

nice work on getting it up a month into 2010.