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Smoke Samurai
01-20-2010, 08:44 PM
Does anyone in here compete in IBCA cookoffs in Texas? I wanted to hear what your thoughts were on the consistency of scoring and your overall experience. I am going to be a newby this year and I will probably get in 7 or 8 competitions if I possibly can. Don't want to get embarassed, nor do I want to put something in front of the judges that is good but not what they are looking for. Just looking for some feedback. Thanks.

Candy Sue
01-20-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes, I cook IBCA too. You should pick a contest out, go hang and sign up to judge a category. Practice, practice and practice some more. It's half chicken, pork spare ribs and brisket. Get your chicken done without drying out the breast. Sauce MUST be cooked on and not drippy. No garnish, so you don't have to worry about that. The Head Judge will look at your entry at turn in to make sure you've presented it the right way. Take a paper towel just in case you've got juice in the box. Key thing, after you've cooked your best, put it in a styrofoam ToGo box and let it sit for 30 minutes and then taste it, then let it go for an hour and taste again. To do well in IBCA, your entry must taste good cold. If you make it to the final table, it's stone cold meat.

IBCA cooks do very well in KCBS contests. It's a great training ground and I got to say in many respects IBCA is more fun and less stress. I did Kennedale back in November. I was the only non-Texas team there! I got 10th in Chicken and made the finals in brisket. It was a good day!

chromesporty
01-20-2010, 09:18 PM
The scoring in IBCA is alot different than KCBS. You get one score, 2-9, based on appearance, texture, and taste. Most times appearance doesn't count for much. Listen to Candy about the BBQ better be good cold. If you make final table at some of the bigger contest, your Q is settin' in a styrofoam container for an hour-hour and a half.

Go check out a contest prior to entering. You'll meet some of the nicest folks you could ever hope to meet. I'll be at Kaufman in March and Terrell in April. Come by, say hello and drink a cold one.

ThomEmery
01-20-2010, 09:26 PM
Go Judge at one of Head Judge Lynn Shivers contests
You will learn a whole bunch

Smoke Samurai
01-20-2010, 09:30 PM
I hope to make the Kaufman and the Terrell contests as well. Going to cook with my cousin...we have been talking about it for a while but I think that is time to get wade in and get our feet wet. He is steve_09...you might have seen him on here before. One large BGE and two broken in UDS's is going to have to do for now!

thillin
01-20-2010, 09:48 PM
Steve stopped by and visited with us last year. Once you start, you'll learn and you just need to be consistant once you start hitting the top 10 in a category. Irving Elks is at the end of next month. There will be a few Brethren teams there. I'll be more than happy to point you in the right direction. I gave Steve alot of pointers that I hoped helped. Let me know what comps you plan on. If you cook Irving, get there as early as possible. If you don't cook, come out Friday and have some fun and see what goes on.

Ty

thillin
01-20-2010, 09:49 PM
Go Judge at one of Head Judge Lynn Shivers contests
You will learn a whole bunch

Lynn does a great job.

thillin
01-20-2010, 09:51 PM
..I did Kennedale back in November. I was the only non-Texas team there! I got 10th in Chicken and made the finals in brisket. It was a good day!

There were 5 other Brethren teams at that comp. Wish I known you were there. BTW, I got 12th in chicken there with a new cooking technique.

Dustaway
01-20-2010, 09:54 PM
Candy and Thom said it the best and judging will improve your learning curve also.

Good Luck

Smoke Samurai
01-20-2010, 09:56 PM
Thillin...I was with Steve last year when we visited the Elks in Irving. Thinking about doing that one this year..I just need to convince Steve to spend a few bucks and enter. I would like us to do more than just a few and just see if we have "learned" anything by reading, researching and then doing a backyard cook. Time to find out where we stack up.

thillin
01-20-2010, 10:06 PM
Thillin...I was with Steve last year when we visited the Elks in Irving. Thinking about doing that one this year..I just need to convince Steve to spend a few bucks and enter. I would like us to do more than just a few and just see if we have "learned" anything by reading, researching and then doing a backyard cook. Time to find out where we stack up.

Come out and enter. PM me and I'll try to answer any questions. Good thing about IBCA vs KCBS comps, is our entry fees are usually under $100.

Smoke Samurai
01-20-2010, 10:13 PM
It has been a tough year...stevo was unemployed for 11 months until November and I just got a job after being unemployed for 3 months. The entry is only $65 so that is good. If we don't, I am sure we will be out there and at least make the Kaufman in March. would enjoy getting tips...how long have you been competing in IBCA and/or KCBS thillin?

Crash
01-20-2010, 11:29 PM
We've cooked IBCA contests in AZ and CA only. We havent noticed any real difference with scoring from one contest to the next. The meats we usually get calls in for KCBS, seem to also transfer over to IBCA calls.

I was a big non-supporter of IBCA for our first few years, but have now grown to like their format a lot. There's something about not trimming a few dozen chicken thighs and not having to build a parsley box that I really like.

If you cook an IBCA event, make sure to get clarification on rule #9 ("Once the cooking is complete, sauces cannot be added before the meat is placed in the judging tray".) from the contest rep.

Good luck!!

thillin
01-21-2010, 12:07 AM
It has been a tough year...stevo was unemployed for 11 months until November and I just got a job after being unemployed for 3 months. The entry is only $65 so that is good. If we don't, I am sure we will be out there and at least make the Kaufman in March. would enjoy getting tips...how long have you been competing in IBCA and/or KCBS thillin?

a little over a year. Did fairly well. Got a few calls along the way. Good thing with cooking these comps, you can get by with a brisket, 2 chicken halves and 2 racks of spares if you have to. My household is down to 1 income as well, so I'm cutting back on contests this year.

I'll do at least both Irving comps, Keller, Grapevine, Colleyville and hopefully West. Not sure if I'll make Terrell again this year. Might consider paartnering up for others to cut expenses in half.

thillin
01-21-2010, 12:17 AM
Maybe some of these other IBCA cooks can give pointers on glazing. It's my weakness. I've done just as good not glazing as I have glazing. I don't glaze at home, so I'm just not use to it, even after over a year competing.

Crash
01-21-2010, 02:04 AM
We glaze when the meat is about 20 minutes away from coming off the cooker. This allows the sauce to set on the meat per IBCA rules.

Smoke'n Ice
01-21-2010, 07:35 AM
It is a peoples choice contest in Texas with NO feedback to the cook unless you make the finals table.

Go judge one first and decide if you want to have fun all night by drinking beer and swapping stories and turning in well smoked meat that is judged with a clean plastic knife and fork used to sample one fourth of one rib or brisket slice or a small sliver of chicken.

I personally don't care for the way they judge (use anybody off the street) and the absence of feedback and therefore consider it a waste of time. Travel to KCBS cookoffs outside of my home state.

Dustaway
01-21-2010, 09:28 AM
It is a peoples choice contest in Texas with NO feedback to the cook unless you make the finals table.

Go judge one first and decide if you want to have fun all night by drinking beer and swapping stories and turning in well smoked meat that is judged with a clean plastic knife and fork used to sample one fourth of one rib or brisket slice or a small sliver of chicken.

I personally don't care for the way they judge (use anybody off the street) and the absence of feedback and therefore consider it a waste of time. Travel to KCBS cookoffs outside of my home state.


sounds like sour grapes.... I guess nobody drinks beer and tells stories at a KCBS event?

Unlike KCBS you do have the opportunity if you want to to look and see and even tasted the top ten after awards?

They all have there plus and minus It's just what your familiar with and like have fun

Texana
01-21-2010, 11:29 AM
......I personally don't care for the way they judge (use anybody off the street) and the absence of feedback and therefore consider it a waste of time. Travel to KCBS cookoffs outside of my home state.

I would have to agree that it is a personal opinion. But after cooking Texas for the last few years I must say if you can please they multitudes "off the street" consistantly then you must be something right.

And aren't KCBS judges just people off the street ??? Oh I mean the pay their money and go to a class and they are "told/instructed" what to look for and so forth and so on ... but they are still just people and they will either like what you cook or not ..... I'm just wondering if in the end it really matters. Good Q is good Q .....

Smoke Samurai
01-21-2010, 12:57 PM
Who else do you have on your team thillin? If there are some opportunities to partner up, I would definitely be interested in doing so. I don't see a colleyville competition on the IBCA schedule for 2010...

thillin
01-21-2010, 02:23 PM
Who else do you have on your team thillin? If there are some opportunities to partner up, I would definitely be interested in doing so. I don't see a colleyville competition on the IBCA schedule for 2010...

Colleyville is a Lone Star (http://www.lonestarbarbecue.com/home.htm)cookoff. As well as the Keller comp. They cook the same rules as IBCA. Opens up another large list of area cooks.

Mike(GrumpysQ) helps when he can, or I go solo. But I'm sure we can plan on a comp if ya'll want to split the cost.

ThomEmery
01-21-2010, 02:48 PM
I would have to agree that it is a personal opinion. But after cooking Texas for the last few years I must say if you can please they multitudes "off the street" consistantly then you must be something right.

And aren't KCBS judges just people off the street ??? Oh I mean the pay their money and go to a class and they are "told/instructed" what to look for and so forth and so on ... but they are still just people and they will either like what you cook or not ..... I'm just wondering if in the end it really matters. Good Q is good Q .....


Hey Craig good to see you in the house

Smoke'n Ice
01-21-2010, 04:03 PM
The times I've judged were at Traders Village and Gilleys. At Traders the table my wife and i were at had 8 judges and 20 entries of chicken. There was another couple at the table with their 2 kids, between feeding the kids q, discussing each of the entries as they judged them and in general being a distraction, it helped me make a decision not to waste time and money on IBCA cookoffs as this type of judging was the norm and not the exception.

Did the finals table for brisket at a 100 plus contest near Dallas and after the first few entries, had no taste buds left and a numb feeing in the mouth. My wife and I just looked and gave a score as the taste component was gone.

I did cook a couple later on but they were to test timing and not a serious attempt as my FEC can't put the amount of smoke on the meat that is required to be competitive in TX.

thillin
01-21-2010, 04:57 PM
The times I've judged were at Traders Village and Gilleys. At Traders the table my wife and i were at had 8 judges and 20 entries of chicken. There was another couple at the table with their 2 kids, between feeding the kids q, discussing each of the entries as they judged them and in general being a distraction, it helped me make a decision not to waste time and money on IBCA cookoffs as this type of judging was the norm and not the exception.
You're brave if you were judging the backyard chicken cook. I don't think it's the norm on judges with distractions like kids. But a comp at a flea market, gets judges that are there for a flea market. Most judges are there for the comps. Even the ones off the street are friends or family of someone cooking.

Did the finals table for brisket at a 100 plus contest near Dallas and after the first few entries, had no taste buds left and a numb feeing in the mouth. My wife and I just looked and gave a score as the taste component was gone. Were the entries too spicey for you? Usually just take 1-2 bites per entry, unlike a whole slice like KCBS.

I did cook a couple later on but they were to test timing and not a serious attempt as my FEC can't put the amount of smoke on the meat that is required to be competitive in TX. I think that's untrue. I cook on Geen Eggs and they don't impart a heavy smoke.

See my comments in Red.

dwmckay99
01-21-2010, 06:01 PM
[QUOTE=Smoke'n Ice;1152019]

Did the finals table for brisket at a 100 plus contest near Dallas and after the first few entries, had no taste buds left and a numb feeing in the mouth. My wife and I just looked and gave a score as the taste component was gone. Were the entries too spicey for you? Usually just take 1-2 bites per entry, unlike a whole slice like KCBS.

See my comments in Red.

Not sure what you mean...KCBS doesn't require you to eat a whole slice of anything.

Smoke Samurai
01-21-2010, 06:02 PM
I am sure that there are some variations in the scoring and in the judges. If it is a problem, then it really should be addressed by the IBCA members and committee. However, someone placing in the top 5 in a lot of competitions would probably argue that even if you have a variation in the judging and they still score high marks consistently, then their BBQ is probably pretty darn good. I do understand what you are saying and I will have to keep my eye on who is actually judging our slave labor of love. I am in this to get a lot better than I am, but also to have a good time with people that enjoy cooking and smoking. Drinking beer is something else I like to do a lot and normally get along with others that do as well. Luckily most of your time cooking is just keeping an eye on your temps. Shoot me an e-mail thillin...I would like to run some things by you.

thillin
01-21-2010, 06:48 PM
[QUOTE=thillin;1152095]

Not sure what you mean...KCBS doesn't require you to eat a whole slice of anything.

In IBCA you can't pick up the slice. You cut a bite sized piece off with a plastic knofe and fork. Therefore only a chance to eat a bite or 2. KCBS you could eat the whole slice.

dwmckay99
01-21-2010, 07:00 PM
[QUOTE=dwmckay99;1152171]

In IBCA you can't pick up the slice. You cut a bite sized piece off with a plastic knofe and fork. Therefore only a chance to eat a bite or 2. KCBS you could eat the whole slice.


Gotcha...I was reading some of the KCBS documentation (just got certified to judge) and saw that eating one bite of each entry in the four categories is about two pounds of meat.:icon_bugeyed I like having the chance to pick up the meat, though, and check its consistency.

FWIW, Ron Harwell--who led the class--had nothing but good things to say about IBCA.

ThomEmery
01-21-2010, 07:30 PM
Stagecoach 2009 the same team GCed
both of the same day contests
KCBS IBCA good is good
I personally like" the Texas Lettuce"
(foil square)

Smoke'n Ice
01-21-2010, 07:40 PM
Traders Village was a rather large contest with some big name teams participating. Yes the judges were shoppers, just like any other IBCA. You never know what you will get.

At a KCBS/IBCA contest that Thom is referring to, the judges were probably trained KCBS judges. I would suggest you come cook in TX, as an example, Trader Village, and then comment on the quality of judging in an IBCA contest.

Smoke'n Ice
01-21-2010, 07:43 PM
I forgot to mention in the above post that I like fresh jalapenos as a breath freshener. What I don't like is the creosote favor of mesquite wood.

ThomEmery
01-21-2010, 07:47 PM
No the IBCA Judges were every cousin, high school friend, or customer
I ever had :) The Music Fest is in my home town
(I get more popular this time of year)
The KCBS had CBJs

Funtimebbq
01-21-2010, 08:25 PM
Hi All,

I do not cook many contests each year but do prefer KCBS for only one reason. You know where you stand after the event is over. Every team gets scored and receives a score sheet. For me, it is the only way to tell where I stand compared to all the other teams. At an IBCA event, only the teams who are called get to know where they stand.

Other than that, I favor IBCA. As a one person team, I prefer the one-hour turn in times, no garnish rule and the sauce rule. I especially prefer the 1/2 chicken category because it eliminates all the prep associated with KCBS and trying to make 6 pieces look uniform. It makes the playing field more even.

Inthe brisket category, all you can turn-in is sliced pieces. No need to try to add burnt ends and worry about all that as well.

Too bad, IBCA rules do not allow for full field scoring.

Benny

Smoke Samurai
01-21-2010, 08:28 PM
No matter how well someone knows your BBQ, I doubt most would be able to tell the difference. However, we both know that backyard BBQ v. competition BBQ are completely different. They both must taste good, but competition needs to look good and have good texture with the perfect doneness. I want to have a good time and turn in what I think competition BBQ should be...if I consistently finish poorly then either I need to re-evaluate what I think competition BBQ is and change it, or I need to look to the consistency of the judging in the events. Seems that there is a difference of opinion on the quality and validity of the results across IBCA competitions. Am I hearing correctly?

thillin
01-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Traders Village was a rather large contest with some big name teams participating. Yes the judges were shoppers, just like any other IBCA. You never know what you will get.

At a KCBS/IBCA contest that Thom is referring to, the judges were probably trained KCBS judges. I would suggest you come cook in TX, as an example, Trader Village, and then comment on the quality of judging in an IBCA contest.

Thom does come to TX. The West cookoff if I recall.

My point about shoppers for judges...

Probably 90% comps I've cooked here, were just BBQ comps. The majority of the public judges are brought in by the organizer, head judge or pulled from the public. The "public" is usually a friend, family member, or even someone from a competing team. Flea market shoppers are not the "norm". Especially with kids at the table. (I would've mentioned something to the head judge.)

Not sure if this has been staying on topic.

I exchanged a few PMs with Samurai and offered any comp knowledge I have. Hopefully we can meet up with Steve over a couple of drinks or food and talk about more than just in passing as it was in Irving last year.

ThomEmery
01-21-2010, 09:03 PM
Been to West twice Love the event
A large contest is not the place to measure quality
Things happen at the Royal that are disappointing also
The read out is the main thing about KCBS that I enjoy
until I get a 656 :)

thillin
01-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Seems that there is a difference of opinion on the quality and validity of the results across IBCA competitions. Am I hearing correctly?

The same teams rise to the top each comp. Just like any other comp, the entries are judged by that judges preferences. No matter if it should be or not. Sometimes you get a tough table of judges, sometimes a easy table. Some like salty brisket, while others like sweet. It all averages out. If you can produce a good product consistantly, you'll do better than the average cook. If you want to try KCBS cook, you're gonna have to drive out of state. They had 1 comp in Bedford last year. And be prepaired to pay $300 and up for KCBS vs $65 for IBCA entries. But a good cook can cook to satisfy judges no matter what the preferences. If it's "people off the street", cook like you do at home. If it's CBJs, then cook textbook. You're still being judged on your work. In IBCA, you learn that fall off the bone ribs win vs. the ones with tug. Don't let the lack of score sheets keep you from competing. The smaller comps, you'll know if you're in the top 15-20 in each category. Some comps only have 30 teams. So it's easy to figure out.

Candy Sue
01-21-2010, 10:50 PM
Been to West twice Love the event
A large contest is not the place to measure quality
Things happen at the Royal that are disappointing also
The read out is the main thing about KCBS that I enjoy
until I get a 656 :)

West is a totally unique contest! I'd love to cook it sometime. They have a keg of beer for judges for palate cleansing...

ThomEmery
01-21-2010, 11:11 PM
Yea That part was kinda crazy

The Baylor Students were a lot of fun

Texana
01-22-2010, 11:39 AM
Hey Craig good to see you in the house

Yea .. I gotta get out more :)

Texana
01-22-2010, 11:50 AM
Good BBQ is Good BBQ .....

If you cook good Q then the awards will come. It's like most anything your only going to get out of it what your willing to put into it.

The lack of know where you stand in IBCA/TGCBCA vs KCBS pretty much comes down to money. The entry fees for most IBCA/TGCBCA events is much lower than KCBS. The lack of funds coming into each organization means less money to spend on computer systems etc .... At this point in time it is what it is ....

As to handling food ... each organization can point to pro's and con's of each system. I say it's great we live in a country where we can have different organizations and options to choose from.

In the end no matter where you cook or what organization, if your serious about winning you adapt and cook what is necessary to win. If winning is not that important then hoist another cold one and have fun. There really is no right or wrong organization.

Like cooking a brisket ... in the end there is really no right or wrong way to do it .... it's personal preference and the final result .... and it is either Good Q or not ......