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HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 09:40 AM
1st comp is in a month. My chicken is on the mark...
This is a CBBQA event, which I think judges the same as a KCBS event.
Do judges prefer the chicken bone in or out???
I have been taking the bones out of my thigh...does it matter?
Any one know which way to go on this, or is this an invitation to a totally circular debate with no answer?

Alexa RnQ
01-13-2010, 09:51 AM
California has its own judging preferences in that regard, but good product is rewarded. Nobody can argue with moist, tender and flavorful. It's not like some areas where frankenchicken is practically an unwritten rule.

ETA: Are you talking about Hangtown? Wiki page says KCBS scoring will be used.

OutlawSwine
01-13-2010, 09:53 AM
Interesting question. I'm looking forward to the responses.

Let the debate begin............

JD McGee
01-13-2010, 10:11 AM
Most folks I know up here do bone in...but ya gotta do whatever works for the local judges down there...:cool:

early mornin' smokin'
01-13-2010, 10:18 AM
we do bone in thighs. trim em up nice, scrape the skin, brine them for a lil while, still havent gotten a call yet...might be time to break out the muffin pan and sculpt me some chicken.

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 11:32 AM
ETA: Are you talking about Hangtown? Wiki page says KCBS scoring will be used.

i am talking about that event...so what does that mean...is frakenchicken expected?

Alexa RnQ
01-13-2010, 11:35 AM
Hangtown is a very informal backyard event, with the focus being on bringing new teams up to speed on entries, boxing, etc. If you've been reading here and are worrying about boneless chicken, I'd be willing to bet you'll be pretty much ahead of the curve.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
01-13-2010, 12:09 PM
I have always gone bone in (but dont go by me). I spoke with a judge who does a bunch of comps and he said I thinks he's only gotten boneless thighs 1 or 2 times over the years. I hope someone who does well in chicken will chime in and let us know their thoughts.

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Hangtown is a very informal backyard event, with the focus being on bringing new teams up to speed on entries, boxing, etc. If you've been reading here and are worrying about boneless chicken, I'd be willing to bet you'll be pretty much ahead of the curve.

I am aware that it is an informal event...but we need to take it seriously. It is my first comp, and i need to bring my A-game so folks know we are for real, And I want to turn in good product, If i am ahead of the curve, that is great...

My take so far is that most folks are turning in bone in chicken then?

Rich Parker
01-13-2010, 12:24 PM
I prefer bone in. Good luck!

RobKC
01-13-2010, 12:37 PM
I thought I had turned in boneless once last year, but the pictures don't agree. I much prefer bone-in as well.

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 12:49 PM
Thanks for your input every one.

monty3777
01-13-2010, 01:13 PM
If you take the bone out, why do you do it? Does it serve a particular purpose? I guess that's where I'd start. If it serves a purpose then great. If it's just to be different, well - IMHO, KCBS BBQ is basically a conformity contest so I suppose I'd stick with what works.

EatonHoggBBQ
01-13-2010, 01:28 PM
Do judges prefer the chicken bone in or out???

I don't think judges should prefer one over the other, nor should they mark up or down for the absence or presence of a bone.
Judges judge what they taste, not whether they like the bone in or out.

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 01:58 PM
I don't think judges should prefer one over the other, nor should they mark up or down for the absence or presence of a bone.
Judges judge what they taste, not whether they like the bone in or out.

I understand that, I guess this goes back to what you told me yesterday...They dont have to be uniform size. That is basically what/ehy I am asking. I know I can get uniform thighs with the bone in...but I can make every thigh exactly the same, easily, if I take the bone out.
you told me yesterday that matching the size was unimportant to you, a judge, right?

you do get judged on appereance, right?

Jacked UP BBQ
01-13-2010, 02:04 PM
I do bone in, but I think chicken bones are gross!!!!

EatonHoggBBQ
01-13-2010, 02:46 PM
you told me yesterday that matching the size was unimportant to you, a judge, right?

you do get judged on appereance, right?


Right. I judge how appetizing the appearance of the meat is. Not the size, shape, symmetry, or garnish.

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Right. I judge how appetizing the appearance of the meat is. Not the size, shape, symmetry, or garnish.


OK, I was thinking you judge the appearance of the box when initially opened as well...and that some judges would take that into consideration. I dont mean sauce on the inside of the lid, but the size and lay out of the meat, placement on the garnish, the over all box...

Thanks for your help, you are really teaching me something here. I have read and seen so much focus on the size and uniformity of the meat, and the lay out and over all appearence of the turn in box...

QNDAVE
01-13-2010, 05:01 PM
In Texas bone in all the way.

David

BlueHwyBBQ
01-13-2010, 06:21 PM
I spoke with a judge who does a bunch of comps and he said I thinks he's only gotten boneless thighs 1 or 2 times over the years.

I've judged for several years and have yet to get boneless thighs. I had some boneless breasts and some chopped chicken bbq (maybe it had some white/dark mixed) but never boneless thighs.

Having said that - It doesn't matter how it is presented (bone-in or boneless) it is all good if you make it taste good. So it is what you cook best.

Good luck.

(Disclaimer - I've only judged east of the Mississippi.)

Smoke'n Ice
01-13-2010, 06:40 PM
Use as small a bone-in thigh as you can buy, trim fat and skin. DO NOT OVERTRIM SKIN as you will get postage stamp skin in the end. Pin, stake, skewer, whatever the skin to the meat. Brine, cook, sauce or whatever and pick out the best 6 and plate (put in the box).

Bone equals moisture and flavor and if you take off the skin, you get jerky surface.

JD McGee
01-13-2010, 07:50 PM
OK, I was thinking you judge the appearance of the box when initially opened as well...and that some judges would take that into consideration. I dont mean sauce on the inside of the lid, but the size and lay out of the meat, placement on the garnish, the over all box...

Thanks for your help, you are really teaching me something here. I have read and seen so much focus on the size and uniformity of the meat, and the lay out and over all appearance of the turn in box...

You would be correct to assume your above statement...we ALWAYS turn in the best looking box we can...and that includes garnish, meat symmetry, meat layout etc...that is one thing WE have control over. :cool: Every point helps and when you get 9's for appearance you've done all you can do. :-P

EatonHoggBBQ
01-13-2010, 08:55 PM
OK, I was thinking you judge the appearance of the box when initially opened as well...and that some judges would take that into consideration. I dont mean sauce on the inside of the lid, but the size and lay out of the meat, placement on the garnish, the over all box...

Thanks for your help, you are really teaching me something here. I have read and seen so much focus on the size and uniformity of the meat, and the lay out and over all appearence of the turn in box...

You would be correct to assume your above statement...we ALWAYS turn in the best looking box we can...and that includes garnish, meat symmetry, meat layout etc...that is one thing WE have control over. :cool: Every point helps and when you get 9's for appearance you've done all you can do. :-P

Agreed, by all means turn in the very best looking box you can. I didn't mean to give you the wrong idea about that.
Maybe I'm the one learning something here. I didn't know that how the turn in box was assembled held so much weight in scoring on how appetizing the meat appeared to me. I just may need to revamp my judging technique.

Let's see, start at 9
minus 1 point for uneven garnish
minus 1 point for meat that is not the same size
minus 1 point for poor placement of meat
OK, now we look at and score the meat itself
minus 1 because I don't like the looks of it

WOW....looks like I'll have to give out a lot more 5's and lower.

Yeah, I know that's not how it really goes.....but sometimes it does.

barbefunkoramaque
01-13-2010, 10:38 PM
Since no one dares take the Prompt for the Obvious



Praline: Next we have number four, 'Crunchy Thigh'.
Milton: Ah, yes.
Praline: Am I right in thinking there's a real chicken thigh in there?
Milton: Yes. A little one.
Praline: What sort of chicken?
Milton: A dead one.
Praline: Is it cooked?
Milton: Smoked.
Praline: What, a Smoked Thigh?
(Superintendent Parrot looks increasingly queasy.)
Milton: We use only the finest baby chickens, dew picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, fondled and trimmed to perfection and then sealed in a succulent Mayonnaise quintuple smooth treble cream sauce envelope and lovingly frosted with glitter.
Praline: Well don't you even take the bones out?
Milton: If we took the bones out it wouldn't be crunchy would it?
Praline: Superintendent Parrot ate one of those.
Parrot: Excuse me a moment. (exits hurriedly)
Milton: It says 'crunchy thigh' quite clearly.
Praline: Well, the superintendent thought it was a muffined formed roll. Formed like that, people won't expect there to be a bone in there. They're bound to think it's some form of mock Thigh.
Milton: (insulted) Mock Thigh? We use no artificial brining or injection additives of any kind!
Praline: Nevertheless, I must warn you that in future you should delete the words 'crunchy thigh', and replace them with the legend 'crunchy skinned scraped Iraqi unboned real dead thigh, if you want to avoid prosecution.



Monty Python Mod

early mornin' smokin'
01-14-2010, 08:29 AM
John "eaton hog" minus one point for uneven garnish?!?! I was pretty positive that we werent getting judged on garnish, just the meat. As per KCBS rules, one point on appearance if improper garnish is used otherwise "Each judge will first score all the samples for appearance of the meat. The turn-in containers will then be passed around the table and each judge will place a sample from each of the containers in the appropriate box on the judging mat. The judge will then score each entry for taste and tenderness, before moving on to the next entry."

HumboldtSmokeBBQ
01-14-2010, 09:39 AM
Ok, it seems easier to keep the bone in for me...less prep time. I can clean them up and make them look all pretty. I do think when i take the bone out they are cooking to quickly.
Bone in for me, and I will have the judges tell me if they dont look pretty enough at my event. If I never walk with my chicken, I will try taking the bone out and see what happens...as stated in my first post, this is my first comp...I am going be happy if my crappy comp van makes it there.

Smoky River BBQ
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
John "eaton hog" minus one point for uneven garnish?!?! I was pretty positive that we werent getting judged on garnish, just the meat. As per KCBS rules, one point on appearance if improper garnish is used otherwise "Each judge will first score all the samples for appearance of the meat. The turn-in containers will then be passed around the table and each judge will place a sample from each of the containers in the appropriate box on the judging mat. The judge will then score each entry for taste and tenderness, before moving on to the next entry."

I'm sure that John's comment was purely tongue in cheek. If a judge scores down because of the garnish, then he/she has no business being a judge, IMHO

Born2Smoke
01-14-2010, 10:28 AM
Since We've switched to boneless, we've placed 3rd and 7th in chicken...Seems to be the popular choice in the Northeast.

RX2006JE
01-14-2010, 02:22 PM
I began competing last year and did 3 contest and I did de-bone my thighs and I placed every time. 2 third places and one 2nd place. The prep time is the worst thing about it. I did it to get a more uniform size and cooking time for all the pieces. I have been working with a new method of leaving the bone-in and trimming up a bit to achieve the same results. I like the finished product with the bone out but the prep time is why I am looking to go another route. I also compete in the SouthEast not sure if that makes a big difference in the regions.

landarc
01-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Hey Dev, PM yelonutz and chuckwagonbbq, both of those guys can key you in on CBBQA knowledge, they are both involved with that organization. John (Nutz) and Leonard (Chuckwagon) can really help you out with this.

early mornin' smokin'
01-15-2010, 09:26 AM
thanks smoky, I was really hoping this was a "tongue in cheek" comment, id hate to hear a judge scoring down a box on "uneven garnish"

hilbillyinca
01-15-2010, 06:44 PM
OK, I was thinking you judge the appearance of the box when initially opened as well...and that some judges would take that into consideration. I dont mean sauce on the inside of the lid, but the size and lay out of the meat, placement on the garnish, the over all box...

Thanks for your help, you are really teaching me something here. I have read and seen so much focus on the size and uniformity of the meat, and the lay out and over all appearence of the turn in box...


This is a tough one imo.. and up to the judges. However, I would definitely shoot for similar size and geometry. It can only add to the overall appearance of the box if all pieces are similar in size and neatly placed.