PDA

View Full Version : Against the rules for KCBS contest?


Dan - 3eyzbbq
01-04-2010, 03:08 PM
Been holding on to this question for awhile.

Saw a couple teams using lighters to burn off residual feathers on chicken skin during prep. Given that's a butane source for the flame is that against the rules?

I know your not really cooking, nor is that the intent. Just curious what peoples thoughts are.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
01-04-2010, 03:11 PM
And yes, I'm bored :icon_blush:

Jorge
01-04-2010, 03:12 PM
I don't know if it is or not, but I wouldn't take the risk of somebody getting the wrong idea. It's close enough that some folks would probably question it at some point. For all I know it could change the texture of the skin, and if that's the case they would have a point.

Scottie
01-04-2010, 03:16 PM
I would say illegal. Just as those propane torches are illegal for finishing sauce on a chicken or rib...

Jacked UP BBQ
01-04-2010, 03:16 PM
Dan - I think you should serve hairy chicken. Starting next season I will be watching YOU!!!! hahaha

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
01-04-2010, 03:24 PM
I would say illegal. Just as those propane torches are illegal for finishing sauce on a chicken or rib...

I agree with Scottie, if a rep (or another competitor) were to see this it would cause some uneeded issues.

on another note...Dan if your really board you can always come over to my house and teach me how to cook chicken.:roll:

Capn Kev
01-04-2010, 03:26 PM
And yes, I'm bored :icon_blush:

You are bored :lol:

smokincracker
01-04-2010, 03:27 PM
Where do you get chicken with hair?

Double D's BBQ
01-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Only if its in a muffin pan and you're attempting to crisp the skin! Otherwise use tweezers to remove the hair.

No chicken brulee!

Dan - 3eyzbbq
01-04-2010, 03:33 PM
Chicken with hair? I don't know where you could get that. Why do you ask :-P

Divemaster
01-04-2010, 03:36 PM
Where do you get chicken with hair?

Chicken with hair? I don't know where you could get that. Why do you ask :-P


You guys need to be more observant.... They are right next to the ones with lips....

Podge
01-04-2010, 03:40 PM
I would say it is not illegal, since the butane is not used to cook the chicken. But just buy a better brand of chicken.

musicmanryann
01-04-2010, 03:41 PM
I saw a top team do this to their chicken at a contest this year. I wondered the same thing. Perhaps this does need some clarification by the board?

Big Ugly's BBQ
01-04-2010, 03:47 PM
I would think that anyone attempting to cook with a butane lighter has other issues that whether or not it's legal. They may be the ones up to 2am singing and playing guitar while you're trying to sleep.....:rolleyes:

Jorge
01-04-2010, 03:48 PM
I would say illegal. Just as those propane torches are illegal for finishing sauce on a chicken or rib...


Here is your proof that Texas does have a winter.....

Setting a sauce is a cooking technique. Removing remnants of pen feathers is prep work and thusly not cooking.

Get on a plane and we'll debate over some margaritas.

G$
01-04-2010, 03:51 PM
I would think that anyone attempting to cook with a butane lighter has other issues that whether or not it's legal. They may be the ones up to 2am singing and playing guitar while you're trying to sleep.....:rolleyes:

I am not sure this is a fair statement.

I mean, I don't even know how to play the guitar.

Scottie
01-04-2010, 04:00 PM
Here is your proof that Texas does have a winter.....

Setting a sauce is a cooking technique. Removing remnants of pen feathers is prep work and thusly not cooking.

Get on a plane and we'll debate over some margaritas.


Debate? I am too busy trying to find all of our Longhorns gear for my girls to be wearing in a couple of days...

Honestly, I don't have a clue. That was a gut reaction to all of the other lame rulings that the BOD comes up with. So I figured it was legal, thus I voted for illegal to rationalize like the BOD does on some issues.... :twisted:

Joking of course!!!

VA BBQ PIRATES
01-04-2010, 04:43 PM
Don't know if it's legal or not. Someone could say you were trying to render the fat under the skin. Why risk it? That's why I use a lady schick! And I learned that here...

Tom

Smoke'n Ice
01-04-2010, 05:12 PM
As long as the gas for the torch is made by the coal gasification method on site using charcoal or wood as the source fuel, then it should be legal. Here is a simple process flow chart for the process.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/IGCC_diagram.svg/1000px-IGCC_diagram.svg.png

big brother smoke
01-04-2010, 05:18 PM
As long as the gas for the torch is made by the coal gasification method on site using charcoal or wood as the source fuel, then it should be legal. Here is a simple process flow chart for the process.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/IGCC_diagram.svg/1000px-IGCC_diagram.svg.png

You guys have got to find another hobby during the winter :shock:

bbqbull
01-04-2010, 05:21 PM
Is this why some teams do their prep work under their Ezups with all 4 side panels down while they work under lights?

Just my memory thinking out loud here.

CajunSmoker
01-04-2010, 05:56 PM
It's only legal if it's a pellet pooping blowtorch:biggrin:

drbbq
01-04-2010, 06:08 PM
OK, no more complaining about the board micro managing. If someone asks they'll have to make a ruling on this. What does Jeff think? LOL!

Merl
01-04-2010, 06:34 PM
OK, no more complaining about the board micro managing. If someone asks they'll have to make a ruling on this. What does Jeff think? LOL!

I heard the pork issue began right here.
I heard the controversy about.. oh well it all began right here!

Merl

Plowboy
01-04-2010, 06:43 PM
I saw a top team do this to their chicken at a contest this year. I wondered the same thing. Perhaps this does need some clarification by the board?

Was it wrapped in papers? Maybe they were trying to "smoke" their chicken.

OK, no more complaining about the board micro managing. If someone asks they'll have to make a ruling on this. What does Jeff think? LOL!

Everyone knows that Jeff shaves his chicken.

musicmanryann
01-04-2010, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=Plowboy;1134455]Was it wrapped in papers? Maybe they were trying to "smoke" their chicken.

No. I actually thought it was a great idea, you know the way the pros do it on tv, to remove the extraneous feather hairs. I then started to do it at the very next contest and thought, "wait a second, this might be construed the wrong way" and I immediately stopped. I hadn't really thought of it again until it was brought up here. Personally, I don't think it is cooking, and therefore should be okay, but when at a contest I don't want to do anything that could even be interpreted incorrectly as being against the rules.

If your question was meant to be humorous I am sorry that it went over my head. :icon_blush:. If not, I would be interested to hear of this "smoking" meathod you speak of. :lol:

Plowboy
01-04-2010, 11:30 PM
[QUOTE=Plowboy;1134455]Was it wrapped in papers? Maybe they were trying to "smoke" their chicken.

No. I actually thought it was a great idea, you know the way the pros do it on tv, to remove the extraneous feather hairs. I then started to do it at the very next contest and thought, "wait a second, this might be construed the wrong way" and I immediately stopped. I hadn't really thought of it again until it was brought up here. Personally, I don't think it is cooking, and therefore should be okay, but when at a contest I don't want to do anything that could even be interpreted incorrectly as being against the rules.

If your question was meant to be humorous I am sorry that it went over my head. :icon_blush:. If not, I would be interested to hear of this "smoking" meathod you speak of. :lol:

Apparently, not that humorous.

watg?
01-05-2010, 07:21 AM
Interesting question Dan, I often wondered if others would construe the use of a butane flame to remove my chicken hair, which is why, in the abundance of caution, we use Nair for men.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413Q5cBsq3L._SL75_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E6OX0W/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0019WZP2G&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1F7P83J5TKXK12JJT558)

I prefer the lotion to the spray, I feel the residual material adds to the resulting texture of the skin. Please do not repeat this tip, as I am very aware of the chatter on various forums regarding "blue bottles" and chicken.:lol:


(and it is only early January):shock:

Big George's BBQ
01-05-2010, 07:36 AM
Wax it That way it will grow back slower

Divemaster
01-05-2010, 08:25 AM
Is this why some teams do their prep work under their Ezups with all 4 side panels down while they work under lights?

Just my memory thinking out loud here.

I actually thought it was a great idea, you know the way the pros do it on tv, to remove the extraneous feather hairs. I then started to do it at the very next contest and thought, "wait a second, this might be construed the wrong way" and I immediately stopped.[/I] I hadn't really thought of it again until it was brought up here. Personally, I don't think it is cooking, and therefore should be okay, but when at a contest I don't want to do anything that could even be interpreted incorrectly as being against the rules.

If your question was meant to be humorous I am sorry that it went over my head. :icon_blush:. If not, I would be interested to hear of this "smoking" meathod you speak of. :lol:
Actually, the safest way to do it is prep the chicken at home where no one can see you use the torch...:icon_cool

FatBoyz
01-05-2010, 08:30 AM
will this methed work for the hair on my azz?

HoDeDo
01-05-2010, 08:31 AM
Yet another area that we don't need input from the board on... :)

I think Jorge had a nice succinct answer. It is part of prep, before anything else is done. Removing a stray feather is removing a stray feather. regardless of how it is done. IF we call that cooking, then aren't we all illegal? - the feathers were removed with scalding water or steam as part of the processing. So applying heat to the bird could potentially have started the cooking process, yadda, yadda...:rolleyes::-P

:tongue:Dan - not a dig at you, since I know you prefaced this question with winter bordem...:tongue:

But another question in general...
At what point do we simply look to common sense to tell us vs. getting a ruling. If cooking is not the outcome, or the intent... why it is even in question? We need to have protections in place to avoid something like burning off a feather consuming board room time, right? If intent to defraud, cause some sort of malice, or provide an unfair advantage is the intent, then by all means put a rule in place to stop it... But for things such as this that seem so common sense, why would we cast any doubt?

Kinda like needing an "interpretation" of a rule that has been around forever. 8-)

Burn off a feather if you want, pluck or shave them, heck get the chemical hair remover made for chickens lol....
fun stuff!!!:twisted:

Divemaster
01-05-2010, 08:34 AM
Yet another area that we don't need input from the board on... :)

I think Jorge had a nice succinct answer. It is part of prep, before anything else is done. Removing a stray feather is removing a stray feather. regardless of how it is done. IF we call that cooking, then aren't we all illegal? - the feathers were removed with scalding water or steam as part of the processing. So applying heat to the bird could potentially have started the cooking process, yadda, yadda...:rolleyes::-P

:tongue:Dan - not a dig at you, since I know you prefaced this question with winter bordem...:tongue:

But another question in general...
At what point do we simply look to common sense to tell us vs. getting a ruling. If cooking is not the outcome, or the intent... why it is even in question? We need to have protections in place to avoid something like burning off a feather consuming board room time, right? If intent to defraud, cause some sort of malice, or provide an unfair advantage is the intent, then by all means put a rule in place to stop it... But for things such as this that seem so common sense, why would we cast any doubt?

Kinda like needing an "interpretation" of a rule that has been around forever. 8-)

Burn off a feather if you want, pluck or shave them, heck get the chemical hair remover made for chickens lol....
fun stuff!!!:twisted:
I wish I could remember who said it but the quote went something like "... because common sense is far less common than it used to be."

Skip
01-05-2010, 08:51 AM
Well its definitely winter. Burning off pin feathers was a common practice for removing them. Although we have other methods now it is still an viable process for removing the pins. How it could ever been considered cooking is beyond me. The thing we seem to forget when debating these issues is INTENT. What is the intent? Pin feather burn quickly and you could easily burn the skin if you hesitate. By burn I mean char not render fat or crisp.

musicmanryann
01-05-2010, 08:52 AM
will this methed work for the hair on my azz?

Yes, but make sure you post the video of it on YouTube. :eek::lol:

watg?
01-05-2010, 09:03 AM
Yes, but make sure you post the video of it on YouTube. :eek::lol:



I think I would keep any open flames clear of this area, go with the Nair, much safer.:lol:

Skip
01-05-2010, 09:34 AM
Careful. This guy tried and it worked! But the method is flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6yvtC8nWS8&feature=related

oceanpigassassins
01-05-2010, 09:54 AM
Hairy chicken is so good.

Plowboy
01-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Yet another area that we don't need input from the board on... :)

I think Jorge had a nice succinct answer. It is part of prep, before anything else is done. Removing a stray feather is removing a stray feather. regardless of how it is done. IF we call that cooking, then aren't we all illegal? - the feathers were removed with scalding water or steam as part of the processing. So applying heat to the bird could potentially have started the cooking process, yadda, yadda...:rolleyes::-P

:tongue:Dan - not a dig at you, since I know you prefaced this question with winter bordem...:tongue:

But another question in general...
At what point do we simply look to common sense to tell us vs. getting a ruling. If cooking is not the outcome, or the intent... why it is even in question? We need to have protections in place to avoid something like burning off a feather consuming board room time, right? If intent to defraud, cause some sort of malice, or provide an unfair advantage is the intent, then by all means put a rule in place to stop it... But for things such as this that seem so common sense, why would we cast any doubt?

Kinda like needing an "interpretation" of a rule that has been around forever. 8-)

Burn off a feather if you want, pluck or shave them, heck get the chemical hair remover made for chickens lol....
fun stuff!!!:twisted:

I think we just learned who the "Big Name Team" was that Ryan caught lighting their chicken. Looks like Andy's been holding out on me.

Hairy chicken is so good.

Better a hairy chicken than a hairy butt.

chopshop
01-05-2010, 10:57 AM
i like my chicken hairy like my wife

Jorge
01-05-2010, 11:01 AM
I think we just learned who the "Big Name Team" was that Ryan caught lighting their chicken. Looks like Andy's been holding out on me.


The phrase "lighting their chicken" gave me a serious case of giggle pants:eek:

Neil
01-05-2010, 11:06 AM
As long as the gas for the torch is made by the coal gasification method on site using charcoal or wood as the source fuel, then it should be legal. Here is a simple process flow chart for the process.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/IGCC_diagram.svg/1000px-IGCC_diagram.svg.png

You must be friends with my Mechanical Operations instructor from the energy program!:biggrin:

Merl
01-05-2010, 11:10 AM
Darn, I love the diagram. I spent four hours looking at it, but what I figure out is where is the bic lighter?
Merl

nthole
01-05-2010, 11:12 AM
If it was illegal couldn't you just stick a stick into a fire until it caught and then use it to burn off the feather?

matthew burt
01-05-2010, 01:04 PM
use a match...just wait until the sulfar burns off and its just wood burning.LOL

Smoke'n Ice
01-05-2010, 01:37 PM
Darn, I love the diagram. I spent four hours looking at it, but what I figure out is where is the bic lighter?
Merl


There is an inspection hatch on the side of the combuster that is used by the darwin method of sticking your hand in and "flicking your bic." :icon_devil
This is the area that syngas, diluent Nitrogen and compressed air are combinded to feed the gas turbin 190 mega watt generator. The resultant electricy is used to run the competion site, the city, the county and the state. Would make a good give back to the community.:mrgreen:

monty3777
01-05-2010, 01:49 PM
The thing we seem to forget when debating these issues is INTENT. What is the intent?

I'm never really comfortable letting other people judge my intentions! Seriously, it seems to me that if there is not a rule forbiding me to do a certain thing - then it should be wide open. I would hate to think that an individual rep would be allowed to interpret my intentions before sending me home DAL because he or she did'nt get what I was trying to do.

BTW, as a new competitor I find these questions/scenerios to be really helpful. A good way to spend the winter months preparing for the season. Get's me thinking!

monty3777
01-05-2010, 01:52 PM
i like my chicken hairy like my wife

I like my chicken like I like my wife - slathered in butter and coated with paprika and garlic salt:biggrin:

This is fun

Dan - 3eyzbbq
01-05-2010, 03:05 PM
Thanks all, good conversation. I don't think it needs to go before the board, just wanted to see what thoughts on the topic were.

And thanks George - now I know what the blue bottle is for!

...And that post with the drawing is awesome :-P

Funtimebbq
01-05-2010, 03:16 PM
Leave the pin feather on and tell everyone your chicken is European.

Benny

Pig Headed
01-05-2010, 04:09 PM
leave the pin feather on and tell everyone your chicken is european.

Benny

lmao!!

HoDeDo
01-05-2010, 06:08 PM
I wish I could remember who said it but the quote went something like "... because common sense is far less common than it used to be."

True...

Thanks all, good conversation. I don't think it needs to go before the board, just wanted to see what thoughts on the topic were.

And thanks George - now I know what the blue bottle is for!

...And that post with the drawing is awesome :-P
The drawing is awesome :twisted:

landarc
01-05-2010, 06:54 PM
As long as the gas for the torch is made by the coal gasification method on site using charcoal or wood as the source fuel, then it should be legal. Here is a simple process flow chart for the process.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/IGCC_diagram.svg/1000px-IGCC_diagram.svg.png
What I don't understand is where the chicken is placed for singeing?

Red Valley BBQ
01-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Leave the pin feather on and tell everyone your chicken is European.

Specifically French :biggrin:

Muzzlebrake
01-05-2010, 07:20 PM
The phrase "lighting their chicken" gave me a serious case of giggle pants:eek:

giggle pants?!?!:eek:

from the guy with the shotgun aimed at all of us.......:biggrin:

smokincracker
01-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Chicken with hair? I don't know where you could get that. Why do you ask :-P




nice save!!!

Alexa RnQ
01-05-2010, 08:08 PM
giggle pants?!?!:eek:

from the guy with the shotgun aimed at all of us.......:biggrin:
Shotgun/Jorge/pants/giggling..... nooooo, my mind does NOT want to go there.

Contracted Cookers
01-05-2010, 08:21 PM
hodeho. nailed this one common sense should prevail.

Scottie
01-05-2010, 08:29 PM
giggle pants?!?!:eek:

from the guy with the shotgun aimed at all of us.......:biggrin:


I'm sitting here having a Tito's and cran/pomegranite juice cocktail and damn near spit it all over my tv that is about 15 feet away.

All I can say is... This was the guy that had a problem with Sled and his skivies? Riiiiggggghhhhttttt.

OK, back to watching Mobsters.

Skip
01-05-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm never really comfortable letting other people judge my intentions! Seriously, it seems to me that if there is not a rule forbiding me to do a certain thing - then it should be wide open. I would hate to think that an individual rep would be allowed to interpret my intentions before sending me home DAL because he or she did'nt get what I was trying to do.

BTW, as a new competitor I find these questions/scenerios to be really helpful. A good way to spend the winter months preparing for the season. Get's me thinking!

No you misundertood. In short we shouldn't ignore the fact that the team probably wasn't out to cheat. So to assume they are is foolish.

oceanpigassassins
01-05-2010, 11:51 PM
hey dan thanks for telling everyone how we cook our chicken

BBQ_Mayor
01-06-2010, 07:14 AM
During the prep, do you not look at your chicken? clean the pin feathers at that time, why wait till its cooked?
If you see more pin feathers after its cooked, just pull them out, easy peasy. I would'nt even think about grabbing something with propane in it to burn off feathers for fear of getting DQ'd.

big brother smoke
01-06-2010, 08:45 AM
I wish I could remember who said it but the quote went something like "... because common sense is far less common than it used to be."

Ha! Or

"Common sense is not common enough!":cool: