PDA

View Full Version : Money muscle .


Contracted Cookers
12-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Was wondering if anybody else. had up and down scores. useing only the muscle for center attraction.

Buster Dog BBQ
12-28-2009, 08:34 PM
I did. Of our 10 contest I had five top 10's, three in the middle, and two DAL. I think did include pulled with mine but the money muscle was the center piece. I think it was more to do with over injecting the muscle for the size it was then the presentation as I have seen some real nice presentations with pork.

Sledneck
12-28-2009, 09:38 PM
Here ya go http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40428&highlight=mutant

Contracted Cookers
12-28-2009, 09:44 PM
The reason why I posted this was. overheard a couple of judges saying they did not think the muscle was cooked with butt as a solid piece.

Sledneck
12-28-2009, 09:47 PM
The reason why I posted this was. overheard a couple of judges saying they did not think the muscle was cooked with butt as a solid piece.Oh boy here we go:eek:

Alexa RnQ
12-28-2009, 09:47 PM
The reason why I posted this was. overheard a couple of judges saying they did not think the muscle was cooked with butt as a solid piece.
Isn't that an issue for the table captain and Rep to determine whether a DQ is in order, rather than for individual judges to "punish" the cook for their assumption by issuing low scores?

Contracted Cookers
12-28-2009, 09:58 PM
yes it is . I know

Jeff_in_KC
12-28-2009, 10:32 PM
Honestly, the money muscle seems to be the most difficult part of the butt to cook. Because we trim them so that it kinda sticks out there on the end, it is susceptible to being burnt or at the least overcooked. If I get a really nice one and I catch it at about 180 to 185 degrees, the whole butt is done as far as I'm concerned. I cook four so I have planty to leave on to bring closer to 200.

Skip
12-28-2009, 10:45 PM
Oh boy here we go:eek:


Hahahahaha!!! :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy

Jacked UP BBQ
12-28-2009, 10:48 PM
I never cook mine connected, I always part my butts before they reach internal temp, if you call it cheating, catch me!!!!!!

PatioDaddio
12-28-2009, 11:01 PM
I never cook mine connected, I always part my butts before they reach internal temp, if you call it cheating, catch me!!!!!!Uh oh... Here we really go... :icon_bugeyed :icon_shy I'm sure Paul Kirk will be on here soon to edumacate us all. :icon_shock1:

John

Plowboy
12-28-2009, 11:02 PM
Honestly, the money muscle seems to be the most difficult part of the butt to cook. Because we trim them so that it kinda sticks out there on the end, it is susceptible to being burnt or at the least overcooked. If I get a really nice one and I catch it at about 180 to 185 degrees, the whole butt is done as far as I'm concerned. I cook four so I have planty to leave on to bring closer to 200.

There's a class coming up in your area the end of March that could teach you how to cook a whole butt to 200 degrees and turn in sliced pork as well as pulled... all from the same butt.

Now THERE'S some KCBS education! Hey, I should be able to get a free ad in the Bullsheet for cooking classes. Thanks, Paul Kirk!

Sledneck
12-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Hahahahaha!!! :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy
Does the MM smell different if cooked separate rathen than whole?

Jeff Hughes
12-29-2009, 01:11 AM
I never cook mine connected, I always part my butts before they reach internal temp, if you call it cheating, catch me!!!!!!

And that's something to be proud of?

Jacked UP BBQ
12-29-2009, 08:54 AM
And that's something to be proud of?

It was a joke....thanks for understanding....I do not even use the money muscle, it is completely overrated imo. I will stick to my NEW pork recipe that has been doing very well with the butt in tact from beginning to end.

dmprantz
12-29-2009, 10:05 AM
Isn't that an issue for the table captain and Rep to determine whether a DQ is in order, rather than for individual judges to "punish" the cook for their assumption by issuing low scores?

According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp

Plowboy
12-29-2009, 10:16 AM
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp

I think standard practice is to consult the TC and the Rep prior to writing a 1 on the score sheet... not after.

dmprantz
12-29-2009, 10:22 AM
I think standard practice is to consult the TC and the Rep prior to writing a 1 on the score sheet... not after.

They said it was a new rule change coming down and they were teaching us how to do it the new way. I didn't judge The Jack, but some one how did could tell you if that's how they did it there. They also tried something new where we couldn't ask the TC about the DQs before we wrote them down, but I think that was just for the class.

dmp

KC_Bobby
12-29-2009, 10:35 AM
Wow judging instructions change often. In 07 I was instructed to give it the app score that I would have if not a DQ, then after all of the judges wrote down their app score - ask the TC about it, then the TC would get a judgment from the rep. At that point if the rep declared it as illegal all the judges would change their app scores to 1's.

The reasoning for that method was so it wouldn't subconsciously change a judges score if it was ruled as a legal entry. To me, that sounds like the better method of the two.

Are all judging classes being told the same things regardless who the instructor is?

pat
12-29-2009, 11:41 AM
Wow judging instructions change often. In 07 I was instructed to give it the app score that I would have if not a DQ, then after all of the judges wrote down their app score - ask the TC about it, then the TC would get a judgment from the rep. At that point if the rep declared it as illegal all the judges would change their app scores to 1's.

I was taught the same as you Bob.....in 2007 also.

Divemaster
12-29-2009, 12:21 PM
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp
Is it just me? How do you go back and 're-score' the appearance when the meat is already gone if they determine that it shouldn't have been DQ'd in the first place?

I really hope this comes up at the rules meeting... I for one would like some clarification on it.

Stoke&Smoke
12-29-2009, 04:12 PM
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp

Parted meat is supposed to be a DQ, that's true, but I'm not so sure about judges giving meat a 1 without rep instruction.

The current rules (2009) still on the KCBS site still say...

4) The scoring system is from 9 to 2, all whole numbers
between two and nine may be used to score an entry. 9
excellent, 8 very good, 7 above average, 6 average, 5
below average, 4 poor, 3 bad, and 2 inedible.

5) A score of one (1) is a disqualification and requires
approval by a Contest Rep. Grounds for disqualification:
All judges will give a one (1) in Appearance for
unapproved garnish, pooled sauce or less than 6 samples
of meat. All judges will give a one (1) in all criteria for
sculptured meat, a marked turn-in container, foreign
object in the container, incorrect meat. All judges not
receiving a sample will give a one (1) in all criteria.

The rep is the only person currently authorized to allow/intruct a judge to give a 1. Until rule 4 is changed, that's how I would interpret it

I'm not sure who instructed otherwise, but I'll be sure and ask about this at the class here in IL on 1/30

The way I was instructed, both in judging class and table captain certification was that, if a judge has a question about an entry, and if it might be a dq, he should bring it up to the table captain, who should then consult the rep.
The 1 or 2 times I was actually a witness to a dq, this is how it happened as well.

Until KCBS publishes something that says otherwise, I would think that the 2009 rules still apply. How can they enforce an unpublished "rule"?

dmprantz
12-29-2009, 04:24 PM
Is it just me? How do you go back and 're-score' the appearance when the meat is already gone if they determine that it shouldn't have been DQ'd in the first place?

It's not just you. I think the whole thing is less than the optimal way to do it. I understand not wanting to "poison the well" with a potentially non-DQ situation. You basically have to keep in mind in your head what the score would have been and then change it. Or perhaps I don't remember 100% and you score it as if it wasn't a DQ and then ask after all scoring. Part of the problem was that we weren't allowed to ask about DQs at all in the class. In either case, I think the correct time to ask about DQ is after all appearance scores are recorded.

dmp

Candy Sue
12-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Just bring out the muffin pans for pork and let's call it sculpting!

Scottie
12-29-2009, 04:45 PM
Just bring out the muffin pans for pork and let's call it sculpting!


Are muffin pans classified as jello molds or ice creams scoops? If they are ice cream scoops, then it would be legal. If they are jello molds, then you will be DQ'd...

Honestly, it's no wonder why these Reps don't know what's going on...

Plowboy
12-29-2009, 04:56 PM
Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.

Ron_L
12-29-2009, 05:31 PM
Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.

You'd have to count on the judges to have their own spoons since you can't put any in the box for them.

KC_Bobby
12-29-2009, 05:47 PM
Lettuce leaf cups

Plowboy
12-29-2009, 05:49 PM
You'd have to count on the judges to have their own spoons since you can't put any in the box for them.

Damn you, Voice of Reason.

Jeff_in_KC
12-29-2009, 06:29 PM
Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.

Then there would be micro-managing going on and we'd have to be told we could not have pooling of the pork! :twisted:

Divemaster
12-30-2009, 09:15 AM
Then there would be micro-managing going on and we'd have to be told we could not have pooling of the pork! :twisted:
Actually, pooling of the pork is legal... You're not allowed to pool the sauce...

13) Sauce is optional. If used, it shall be applied directly to the meat and not be pooled or puddled in the container. No side sauce containers will be permitted in the turn-in container. Chunky sauce will be allowed. Chunks are to be no larger than a fine dice, approximately 1/8 inch cubed. Sauce violations shall receive a score of one (1) on
Appearance.

There is no statement that you can't pool the pork... Of course, is that considered sculpting???

smokincracker
12-30-2009, 03:13 PM
Wow judging instructions change often. In 07 I was instructed to give it the app score that I would have if not a DQ, then after all of the judges wrote down their app score - ask the TC about it, then the TC would get a judgment from the rep. At that point if the rep declared it as illegal all the judges would change their app scores to 1's.

The reasoning for that method was so it wouldn't subconsciously change a judges score if it was ruled as a legal entry. To me, that sounds like the better method of the two.

Are all judging classes being told the same things regardless who the instructor is?

Yep i agree
Makes u wonder Huh!