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View Full Version : Vote if you think Gas should be allowed in Sanctioned Contest Now


BigJimsBBQ
12-20-2009, 04:10 PM
This is a poll to see if all of the BBQ Sanctions should open the compititions up by modifying existing rules and allow gas in Pro and Backyard Teams.

mbshop
12-20-2009, 04:12 PM
sure, why not ? next they can start accepting precooked items also.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
12-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Fine with me

PCDoctor_1979
12-20-2009, 04:22 PM
No. Maintaining temperature with wood or charcoal is part of the skill. BTW, I'm not a huge fan of pellet poopers or those rigs with fans and RC.

Smokin' D
12-20-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm right there with you, Doc.

watertowerbbq
12-20-2009, 04:32 PM
Let 'em in. There is more to competition bbq than just turning on a flame.

Double D's BBQ
12-20-2009, 05:04 PM
Not now, not ever!

Bbq Bubba
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Bring it on!
I got a thousand dollar Kenmore grill I've been dying to cook on!

KC_Bobby
12-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Where's the I don't care, it's a lot more about the cook then it is the cooker option?

Double D's BBQ
12-20-2009, 05:21 PM
Next you'll be polling to see if transvestites should be allowed in the Miss USA/America contests!:-D

If it's gas, it's not barbecue!

Buster Dog BBQ
12-20-2009, 05:28 PM
Been thinking about this for a while. Would gassers even be interested? I mean, let's say a Weber gasser is $500 for comparison purposes. Well, you will probably need two to three of them to compete if you wanted to. So for that much money you can buy a nice smoker or a combination of smokers which will better handle the size of the meat needing cooked.

River City Smokehouse
12-20-2009, 05:31 PM
I think it would be interesting to see at least.

BigJimsBBQ
12-20-2009, 05:46 PM
Been thinking about this for a while. Would gassers even be interested? I mean, let's say a Weber gasser is $500 for comparison purposes. Well, you will probably need two to three of them to compete if you wanted to. So for that much money you can buy a nice smoker or a combination of smokers which will better handle the size of the meat needing cooked.

Trust me, there are $14K LP Smokers rolling out there on trailers already (Southern Pride / Old Smokey)

Buster Dog BBQ
12-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Trust me, there are $14K LP Smokers rolling out there on trailers already (Southern Pride / Old Smokey)
Yeah, I know that. I though the point of your post was so that it would open up the contest to allow gassers, and by that my interpretation was the guys who have those sitting on there decks.

Rub
12-20-2009, 06:35 PM
I'm good with it. At the Best of the Best held in Douglas GA any and all types of smokers are allowed.
It is wide open, may the best man win!
I don't recall gas winning...

Mike - CSBBBQ
12-20-2009, 07:48 PM
I hear you Rub and it may increase the number of teams but I prefer to just say no :wink:

HoDeDo
12-20-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm with Rub.... let em all in... may the best cook win.
I was a stick burner for 10 years before I switched to pellets...
Let the electric guys in too.... to bring the bradley, and masterchef units.... as well as the Ameri-que cookers!!

Double W BBQ
12-20-2009, 08:27 PM
a gas burner in your fire box or a hopper full of pellets. set it and forget it.

NorthwestBBQ
12-20-2009, 08:29 PM
Trust me, there are $14K LP Smokers rolling out there on trailers already (Southern Pride / Old Smokey)

Southern Pride only uses LP to light the logs in the beginning. LP only pits (restaurant style) are not allowed at comps.

IMO there is no way to get the same natural smoke ring or flavor with gas.

Meat@Slim's
12-20-2009, 09:07 PM
My vote is no because I only know what I know. The mystique to competitive cooking is in the rules that existed when we began this party / obsession. If there was a change in the rules I would accept it without complaint. This because it does, indeed, all come down to execution.

Podge
12-20-2009, 09:08 PM
I don't care if someone takes their stove out of their kitchen and cooks in a contest with it. I'd say let everything in.

chopshop
12-20-2009, 09:15 PM
whats the difference at this point. they already let teams use electric to power their smokers. who are we to decide what utility a team uses.

jbrink01
12-20-2009, 09:16 PM
Let everyone in. Bad food off a gas grill is still bad food. Bring 'em on!

swamprb
12-20-2009, 09:19 PM
What about crockpots then?

Dan - 3eyzbbq
12-20-2009, 10:23 PM
Crockpots should be allowed too IMO

Rookie'48
12-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Yeah - let everyone bring whatever they want, the same teams will more than likely be in the top spots no matter what they cook on. Read the green line in my sig.

Grillman
12-20-2009, 11:13 PM
It's not an equipment contest.
It's a cooking contest!

Let people use whatever type of cooker they want...May the best cook win.

sampson
12-20-2009, 11:18 PM
I vote to allow them. Not much difference in my mind between that and a pellet rig... And I do believe it's the cook not the cooker.

tmcmaster
12-21-2009, 12:56 AM
No way. Although, I wouldn't object to a SEPARATE category for it...

Bbq Bubba
12-21-2009, 05:24 AM
SP uses gas for its heat source & I get a very nice smoke ring & flavor cooking on a gas pit. Southern Pride only uses LP to light the logs in the beginning. LP only pits (restaurant style) are not allowed at comps.

IMO there is no way to get the same natural smoke ring or flavor with gas.

C-Town Smoker
12-21-2009, 06:00 AM
Perhaps an unpopular view point, but why not let the LP crowd in??...aside from the fuel source, what's the difference between a Souther Pride or an FE-cooker...you set the temperature and that's it. Same with a Guru or Stoker driven unit...if the control of the fire is being done by something other than yourself...why discriminate against the gas folks...I think this is what you call a slippery slope?

Spydermike72
12-21-2009, 06:33 AM
Bring em on!!

Dale P
12-21-2009, 06:38 AM
I really wouldnt mind at all. May the best tasting food win.

Bbq Bubba
12-21-2009, 06:42 AM
Word!
Perhaps an unpopular view point, but why not let the LP crowd in??...aside from the fuel source, what's the difference between a Souther Pride or an FE-cooker...you set the temperature and that's it. Same with a Guru or Stoker driven unit...if the control of the fire is being done by something other than yourself...why discriminate against the gas folks...I think this is what you call a slippery slope?

CajunSmoker
12-21-2009, 07:15 AM
Let it in. I would bring my BSKD that I converted to LP. It makes a hell of a holding cabinet. I would still cook on the drums though.

HoDeDo
12-21-2009, 07:23 AM
Southern Pride only uses LP to light the logs in the beginning. LP only pits (restaurant style) are not allowed at comps.
IMO there is no way to get the same natural smoke ring or flavor with gas. Every SP I have ever used is LP/or NG powered... the firebox is there for flavor, You can run it off of mostly logs, but it will fire the gas as needed to maintain temp. This is why when they are used at comps, after starting, you have to disconnect the LP tanks. But they are used at comps quite frequently. I have only seen one team DQ'd with an SP... but that was because the gas kicking on kept waking up the neighbors at that comp...:rolleyes:

Yeah - let everyone bring whatever they want, the same teams will more than likely be in the top spots no matter what they cook on. Read the green line in my sig. He,he,he We validated it had mojo at the bash, I wonder what that is all about Dave?? :razz:

Perhaps an unpopular view point, but why not let the LP crowd in??...aside from the fuel source, what's the difference between a Souther Pride or an FE-cooker...you set the temperature and that's it. Same with a Guru or Stoker driven unit...if the control of the fire is being done by something other than yourself...why discriminate against the gas folks...I think this is what you call a slippery slope? I cooked the LP que in a Iowa a few years back on one of Arlie's rented CTOs. Oddly enough - guess who won that contest. Smokin' Triggers. Amazing when these LP guys come crawling out of the wood work huh :rolleyes:..... It is the cook not the cooker. To my knowledge there have not been any other KCBS "competitor series" sanctioned events that utilized all gas or allowed gas in...

Word! ditto!

Interesting poll, alot of the comments are saying bring it on, but the poll says 60+% say no gas....

Is It Ready Yet?
12-21-2009, 07:33 AM
Perhaps an unpopular view point, but why not let the LP crowd in??...aside from the fuel source, what's the difference between a Souther Pride or an FE-cooker...you set the temperature and that's it. Same with a Guru or Stoker driven unit...if the control of the fire is being done by something other than yourself...why discriminate against the gas folks...I think this is what you call a slippery slope?


I agree! Let all in as the line is already "fuzzy".

QansasjayhawQ
12-21-2009, 07:49 AM
I voted no in the poll . . . and then I read the thread. I probably got that bass ackwards, but now that I've read all the thoughts - I am ready to change my vote.

This is like arguing if someone playing a synthesizer or sequencer is really making music or not. What really matters is if the musician has talent to produce an excellent end product.

So, after reading all the thoughts, I have been convinced - we should allow all cooks with any equipment. Besides, that makes it less likely that KCBS will become MORE homologous like NASCAR has.

Let them run what they brought!

Jacked UP BBQ
12-21-2009, 08:45 AM
Gas smokers don't give the same flavor. PLease allow it, it will narrow the field!

lunchlady
12-21-2009, 09:43 AM
I could not vote in the poll because I am of the opinion that BBQ contests should not allow gas, although I have no problem whatsoever with it at grilling contests. :rolleyes:

For some crazy reason I believe that charcoal or wood should be used when cooking 'real' BBQ... (using my own definition of Q). Personally I am not the biggest fan of the pellets or the gurus since I think you SHOULD have to be able to control your fire without pushing a button. But then, some would think that that is hypocritical because I use an insulated smoker (Backwoods).

Allowing gas into grilling contests brings in more competitors... that is what the gassers are cooking anyway, for the most part. Chicken wings, burgers, sausages, steaks and occasionally ribs... not whole pork butts and packer briskets and certainly not ribs the way they are sposed to be... again my own definition.

I am happy to compete against whoever/whatever is allowed to cook the contest I am participating in. I know the rules going in. They'd still have to turn in better food than me.
Also, from an organizers perspective, it would widen the pool of entries, equaling more $$$.

Awesome discussion...

Bigmista
12-21-2009, 09:46 AM
Next you'll be polling to see if transvestites should be allowed in the Miss USA/America contests!:-D

If it's gas, it's not barbecue!

Really? What about and Ole Hickory or Southern Pride with a gas-assist? You gonna tell me that all of the restaurants and caterers who use these aren't making BBQ?

lunchlady
12-21-2009, 10:06 AM
that's what I mean... use your own definition of BBQ...

ZILLA
12-21-2009, 10:14 AM
You might as well. None of the sanctioning bodies have been willing to take a stand on any of the other watered down non traditional cookers so why should this be any different.

Bbq Bubba
12-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Ill put my restaurant Q up against anybodys! :)
Really? What about and Ole Hickory or Southern Pride with a gas-assist? You gonna tell me that all of the restaurants and caterers who use these aren't making BBQ?

Big George's BBQ
12-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Have to say no

JD McGee
12-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Nope...:roll:

Double D's BBQ
12-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Really? What about and Ole Hickory or Southern Pride with a gas-assist? You gonna tell me that all of the restaurants and caterers who use these aren't making BBQ?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. IT IS NOT BBQ!

If KCBS wishes to include gas cookers in contest, I have no objection as long as the don't use the word BBQ in the description of the contest.

Warthog
12-21-2009, 11:16 AM
You want to use gas, use it at home!

chefchrissy
12-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Fine with me

Jacked UP BBQ
12-21-2009, 11:29 AM
My definition of barbecue is a process of preparing food that requires smoke, low temperatures and long periods of time. Has nothing to do with the cooking fuel. If a gasser is not bbq because it burns logs with LP and gas, then FE is not real bbq because it lights man made pellets on a heating element.

jagardn
12-21-2009, 11:35 AM
I prefer using charcoal to gas(backyard, don't compete yet), but if the judges choose the best looking, texture, and tasting food, I say why not. If someone can cook something that wins the competition, it had to be good right? If its the argument of what people call "TRUE BBQ", then there should be no pellet poopers, Guru/Stokers, fans or anything to assist at all.

Double D's BBQ
12-21-2009, 11:50 AM
You can call your brother your sister if you want. You can even dress him up, make a few surgical enhancements and you might fool a few people that he's a woman but it doesn't make it so no matter how many people think he's hot!:eek::icon_shy:icon_blush:

Same thing with BBQ. Anyone want to debate wheter Power Cooking is BBQ? That's a whole new thread!

BBQ Bandit
12-21-2009, 11:55 AM
If gas is allowwed... Myron won'r be able to use a quart of lighter fliud...

... if he did..... POOF!

BigJimsBBQ
12-21-2009, 11:58 AM
If you cook on charcoal and add wood chunks and call it BBQ, then you can cook on gas and add wood chunks and call it BBQ. If you use charcoal but say no to gas, are you afraid of the competion? I use a stick burner and have not said no to a computerized gravity fed chacoal or pellet fed smokers to compete with for true BBQ.

smoke it if ya got it
12-21-2009, 12:03 PM
No. Maintaining temperature with wood or charcoal is part of the skill. BTW, I'm not a huge fan of pellet poopers or those rigs with fans and RC.
I couldent agree more! Whats next turning in KFCs grilled chicken? Lets put the skill back in BBQ after all anyone can push a button!

Ford
12-21-2009, 12:06 PM
What about crockpots then?
Just remember you can't immerse the meat in "liquid" before it's cooked so no "liquid" in that crockpot to start. We can thank Juggy for that.

dmprantz
12-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Just remember you can't immerse the meat in "liquid" before it's cooked so no "liquid" in that crockpot to start.

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you point to a reference? Is it stating that we cannot brine and marinate, that we cannot braise and poach, or both?

dmp

dmprantz
12-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I wanted to stay out of this conversation, but it's getting a lot of traffic, and it's partially my fault. I made some comments about it in the other thread. To me, the first question is how do you define BBQ. I define BBQ as meat which has been cooked in dry heat (excluding oil poaching) so that it is tender and lean. Additionally smoke from either wood or charcoal (a wood derivitive) is used during the cooking process to impart a smokey flavour. Beyond that, there are many ways to produce BBQ: Stick burning, pellet burning, charcoal cooking, Minion cookers, gravity fed charcoal, digging holes in the ground, rotating on a spit over a fire, and I'm sure I'm missing a few. As long as it is tender and smokey, I'd call it Q.

I believe that stick burners take more skill than pellets, gravity fed charcoal, Minion charcoal, and gas, especially with draft control. This is because you have to know how much wood to get, the size to cut it, and be around to add it every so often. That said, many of the "easyQ" devices are allowed in comps, and yet those wo get cooking heat from electricity or gas are forbidden. Personally, I think that those should be allowed as it is no more cheating than pellets or draft control. If you don't think the product is as good, then those competitors will lose. End result, I would love to have gas pits (not grills) in competition as I think it is more of a real world competition at that point rather than sticking your head in the ground and competing in a vacuume. That said, I don't expect KCBS nor MBN to allow gas any time soon. I just think it would be the more honest approach. It's like telling pro baseball players they can't use metal bats because they would be too good. Another rule I dislike.

Flame away, but remember I'm not pushing it.

dmp

Double D's BBQ
12-21-2009, 12:22 PM
If you cook on charcoal and add wood chunks and call it BBQ, then you can cook on gas and add wood chunks and call it BBQ. If you use charcoal but say no to gas, are you afraid of the competion? I use a stick burner and have not said no to a computerized gravity fed chacoal or pellet fed smokers to compete with for true BBQ.

So do I! and neither have I. Charcoal is wood. So you're adding wood to wood. It's BBQ. Pellets are wood. Gas is not wood!

Lake Dogs
12-21-2009, 12:37 PM
So do I! and neither have I. Charcoal is wood. So you're adding wood to wood. It's BBQ. Pellets are wood. Gas is not wood!

Gas is not wood.

I like it. That's a great quote.

Ford
12-21-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you point to a reference? Is it stating that we cannot brine and marinate, that we cannot braise and poach, or both?

dmp
8) Parboiling and/or deep-frying competition meat is not allowed.

Alexa RnQ
12-21-2009, 12:38 PM
All the fuss gets generated when each individual decides that he should define what "true" BBQ is.

But for contests, the rules of the governing body are what matter, and are made clear in the rules.

Mo-Dave
12-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Its been proven over and over, its the cook not the cooker so sure why not. Can't wait tell some one runs out of gas.
Dave

Dustaway
12-21-2009, 01:02 PM
Let-em all in and let the judges sort them out

Jacked UP BBQ
12-21-2009, 01:23 PM
So do I! and neither have I. Charcoal is wood. So you're adding wood to wood. It's BBQ. Pellets are wood. Gas is not wood!

I would love to come out to your next comp and see you widdle your sticks together to get that fire started.:eek:

dmprantz
12-21-2009, 01:35 PM
8) Parboiling and/or deep-frying competition meat is not allowed.


Yes, I am familliar with that rule. The rule about "Placing it in liquid" though I am not. Of course, with the above rule, braising is not par-boiling, so it might be okay:)

dmp

Bbq Bubba
12-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Tried it. Scored nicely! :)I couldent agree more! Whats next turning in KFCs grilled chicken? Lets put the skill back in BBQ after all anyone can push a button!

BigJimsBBQ
12-21-2009, 02:04 PM
Charcoal is wood. So you're adding wood to wood. It's BBQ. Pellets are wood. Gas is not wood!

Oh Contrare - Wood/Charcoal Burning is gas Burning made of carbon monoxide, hydrogen, and methane (explains farts after meat consumption :icon_sick).

Wood Gas is sanctioned, so LP Gas should be Sanctioned.

Wood gas

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas#searchInput)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Wood_gasifier_on_epa_tractor.jpg/300px-Wood_gasifier_on_epa_tractor.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wood_gasifier_on_epa_tractor.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wood_gasifier_on_epa_tractor.jpg)
Wood gasifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator) on a Ford truck converted into a tractor


Wood gas is a syngas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syngas) also known as producer gas which is produced by thermal gasification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification) of biomass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass) or other carbon containing materials such as coal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal) in a gasifier or wood gas generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator) or producer gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Producer_gas). It is the result of two high-temperature reactions (above 700 C (1,292 F)): an exothermic reaction where carbon burns to CO2 but is then reduced partially back to CO (endothermic); and an endothermic reaction where carbon reacts with steam, producing carbon monoxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide) (CO), molecular hydrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen) (H2), and carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide) (CO2).
In several gasifiers, the actual gasification process is preceded by pyrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis), where the biomass or coal turns into char, releasing methane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane) (CH4) and tar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar) rich in polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon) (PAH). Other gasifiers are fed with previously pyrolysed char. Wood gas is flammable because of the carbon monoxide, hydrogen, and methane content.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
12-21-2009, 02:35 PM
Ah yes. Saw a wood gassifier on tv once, can't remember the show. Used it to run a generator. Pretty cool, but that would be a LOOONNNGGG way to produce some BBQ. That would bring a crowd though!

Rhapsody
12-21-2009, 03:10 PM
I understand when people take issue with the true definition of barbecue and that gas doesn't exactly comply with that definition. But as far as ease of use, gurus and pellets might actually be easier to operate than a gas flame. So I don't see any advantage to it, just a process issue. I've judged contests where some teams have no idea how to use charcoal in the right way. Those entries are among the worst food I have ever eaten. Skill is skill, whether youre cooking on charcoal, gas, or steam. I vote yes.

Obviously this would take a long and hard discussion by KCBS, but would it not expand the sport of competition bbq to new heights? I agree with the person who said the same top teams would likely come out on top. Is the added exposure a good or bad thing?

Brauma
12-21-2009, 03:30 PM
Speaking of the crowds, the main thing that attracted me to go to BBQ comps in the first place (as a spectator) was walking around and checking out all the pits. Big, black, colorful, offset, horizontal and vertical chambers. Smelling the hickory smoke and BBQ aromas in the air. Ah yes.... I love that smell.

If I went to a comp and half the field were stainless Kenmore gassers I'd have to stop and think, WTF? There's nothing special here. I could see this at home.

dmprantz
12-21-2009, 03:43 PM
If I went to a comp and half the field were stainless Kenmore gassers I'd have to stop and think, WTF? There's nothing special here. I could see this at home.

I think there's a big misconception among some, and your post above defines it to me: Allowing gas at competitions is not about allowing Kenmore and Sunbeam gas GRILLS to be used as cookers, though they could be, just as kettles are used by some. To me, the bigger point is that those with Gas burners installed in their Klose pits, and those with Ole Hickory pits and those with gas GOSMs, etc could all compete. It's still BBQ in that it's not grilling, Just a different way to provide heat. If some one who thinks gas in contests is okay means grills by that statement, please let me know, but I am only referring to gas pits.

Personally, I think it would open up competitions to more teams, but the winners would likely be the same people. As far as I'm concerned, a gas fired pit should be just as legal is a pit which uses electricity to manage fuel or air...but that's me.

dmp

BigJimsBBQ
12-21-2009, 04:02 PM
i think there's a big misconception among some, and your post above defines it to me: Allowing gas at competitions is not about allowing kenmore and sunbeam gas grills to be used as cookers, though they could be, just as kettles are used by some. To me, the bigger point is that those with gas burners installed in their klose pits, and those with ole hickory pits and those with gas gosms, etc could all compete. It's still bbq in that it's not grilling, just a different way to provide heat. If some one who thinks gas in contests is okay means grills by that statement, please let me know, but i am only referring to gas pits.

Personally, i think it would open up competitions to more teams, but the winners would likely be the same people. As far as i'm concerned, a gas fired pit should be just as legal is a pit which uses electricity to manage fuel or air...but that's me.

Dmp

exactly my point

Rich Parker
12-21-2009, 04:13 PM
I wish Hugh was here to help y'all understand the true meaning of BBQ.

Spydermike72
12-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Really? What about and Ole Hickory or Southern Pride with a gas-assist? You gonna tell me that all of the restaurants and caterers who use these aren't making BBQ?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. IT IS NOT BBQ!



Ummm care to share where that definition came from ?

chopshop
12-21-2009, 04:48 PM
My definition of barbecue is a process of preparing food that requires smoke, low temperatures and long periods of time. Has nothing to do with the cooking fuel. If a gasser is not bbq because it burns logs with LP and gas, then FE is not real bbq because it lights man made pellets on a heating element.

when your right your right. people make decisions based on what type of smoker they own. id like to know the reason why half these people feel that a guru is fair but LP is not. the reason for being so objective is due to the fear of being beat by "fake BBQ"

KC_Bobby
12-21-2009, 04:53 PM
I wish Hugh was here to help y'all understand the true meaning of BBQ.

I laughed

CajunSmoker
12-21-2009, 07:22 PM
Really? What about and Ole Hickory or Southern Pride with a gas-assist? You gonna tell me that all of the restaurants and caterers who use these aren't making BBQ?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. IT IS NOT BBQ!

If KCBS wishes to include gas cookers in contest, I have no objection as long as the don't use the word BBQ in the description of the contest.


I tell you what Dallas. Let's leave that Geer and FE100 home and make everyone really equal. Let's cook on a hole in the ground with some metal thrown over it.

Come on Man:roll:

JD McGee
12-21-2009, 08:16 PM
Still nope...:roll::roll:

Contracted Cookers
12-21-2009, 08:32 PM
Just curious how does every one light there fire . If you think yours is the best on what you. cook on by chose then lets get it on.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-21-2009, 08:37 PM
to make real bbq, you must use a piece of glass to magnify the sun to catch a leaf on fire. get your pile of leaves going to light your wood. Never use a match or lighter to start or you risk getting slammed by the REAL BBQ COUNCIL.

Bogus Chezz Hawg
12-21-2009, 08:38 PM
Keep 'em out.

chad
12-21-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm good with it. At the Best of the Best held in Douglas GA any and all types of smokers are allowed.
It is wide open, may the best man win!
I don't recall gas winning...

Took 2nd in whole hog at Douglas a few years ago. Using a borrowed gas cooker. First ever whole hog for me, too. Might have won if I'd known what I was doing! :mrgreen:

Gas, electric, wood, pellet, charcoal...heat is farkin' heat. It's the LOVE and skill that wins.

JD McGee
12-21-2009, 08:57 PM
to make real bbq, you must use a piece of glass to magnify the sun to catch a leaf on fire. get your pile of leaves going to light your wood. Never use a match or lighter to start or you risk getting slammed by the REAL BBQ COUNCIL.

I prefer to rub two sticks together...I'm gettin' pretty good at it! :cool::twisted:

BigJimsBBQ
12-22-2009, 09:03 AM
Why not allow LP to be used (Smokers). I say open it up and let em in as the end product is what is being Judged, not the cooker. This could be the difference between a full comp and only 15 Teams due to echonomic times. The sanction better start thinking about this prior to event time to help organizers fill the event.\

BTW: The definition of True BBQ is a Farking Joke. My theory is take a bite of it and see if it is TRUE BBQ.

Double D's BBQ
12-22-2009, 11:59 AM
[QUOTE=Double D's BBQ;1120044]


I tell you what Dallas. Let's leave that Geer and FE100 home and make everyone really equal. Let's cook on a hole in the ground with some metal thrown over it.

Come on Man:roll:

I'll cook on anything you can throw at me. That's why I have one of each. I enjoy learning how to cook on every conceivable type of cooker. I started out years ago with one of those little grills I saw advertised on a TV infomercial that used newspaper as fuel. Now for full disclosure we also have a Weber Summit grill at home. I don't use it much, wife loves it. It even has one of those little smoker boxes where you can add wood chips or pellets to get some smoke flavor but I wouldn't call anything that comes off of it BBQ.

One of the duties that I all feel we should do as BBQ Ambassadors is to help preserve the heritage of BBQ, which is cooking tough cuts of meat at low and slow temperatures over a wood fire. To allow gassers in a BBQ competition is a perversion of that. People already don't know the distinction between BBQ and grilling and if you throw gas into the mixture it will only perpetuate that myth. Judging solely by the final product when the final product is not authentic should not be rewarded. I'm sick and tired of PC all inclusive, kumbaya giberish! It's a BBQ copetition for God's sake and the use of gas in such is not a line I'm willing to cross. For those of you that want to include them, start your own BBQ society and allow them. I don't think you'll see any increase in attendance at competitions and you'll lose a lot of the mystique.

As far as the use of FEC's and other electronic devices as long as the are cooking with wood I don't have a problem with them and they are legal in the circuit that I cook in (KCBS). I've used them and have done well with them but in then end get more satisfaction out of using an offset. I cook all categories by myself and yes it is harder to do but I enjoy it. Are FEC's easier, in my opinion yes, without a doubt but I do get some satisfaction at tending a fire so I do it the hard way. Should I get degree of difficulty points for doing so, absolutely not. Judge the final product and give the cooks choice as to what sort of equipment to use as long as they are cooking over a wood source for heat.

Now if I were BBQ commissioner whose task was to preserve the heritage of BBQ, I'd make a few changes. I'd like to see cooks use tough cooks of meat (no Kobe or Wagu), I'd like to see cooks cook low and slow rather than use power cooking methodology. But I am not the BBQ commissioner so I'll play with the rules as they are and take my chances, but I will not compromise on the basic notion that BBQ requires cooking with wood or a wood product as the heat source. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

Double D's BBQ
12-22-2009, 12:07 PM
Its been proven over and over, its the cook not the cooker so sure why not. Can't wait tell some one runs out of gas.
Dave

Coming to a town near you soon: The Pillsbury/Kenmore World BBQ Championship.

Jack Daniel's RIP!

Lake Dogs
12-22-2009, 12:16 PM
[QUOTE=CajunSmoker;1120623]

I'll cook on anything you can throw at me. That's why I have one of each. I enjoy learning how to cook on every conceivable type of cooker. I started out years ago with one of those little grills I saw advertised on a TV infomercial that used newspaper as fuel. Now for full disclosure we also have a Weber Summit grill at home. I don't use it much, wife loves it. It even has one of those little smoker boxes where you can add wood chips or pellets to get some smoke flavor but I wouldn't call anything that comes off of it BBQ.

One of the duties that I all feel we should do as BBQ Ambassadors is to help preserve the heritage of BBQ, which is cooking tough cuts of meat at low and slow temperatures over a wood fire. To allow gassers in a BBQ competition is a perversion of that. People already don't know the distinction between BBQ and grilling and if you throw gas into the mixture it will only perpetuate that myth. Judging solely by the final product when the final product is not authentic should not be rewarded. I'm sick and tired of PC all inclusive, kumbaya giberish! It's a BBQ copetition for God's sake and the use of gas in such is not a line I'm willing to cross. For those of you that want to include them, start your own BBQ society and allow them. I don't think you'll see any increase in attendance at competitions and you'll lose a lot of the mystique.

As far as the use of FEC's and other electronic devices as long as the are cooking with wood I don't have a problem with them and they are legal in the circuit that I cook in (KCBS). I've used them and have done well with them but in then end get more satisfaction out of using an offset. I cook all categories by myself and yes it is harder to do but I enjoy it. Are FEC's easier, in my opinion yes, without a doubt but I do get some satisfaction at tending a fire so I do it the hard way. Should I get degree of difficulty points for doing so, absolutely not. Judge the final product and give the cooks choice as to what sort of equipment to use as long as they are cooking over a wood source for heat.

Now if I were BBQ commissioner whose task was to preserve the heritage of BBQ, I'd make a few changes. I'd like to see cooks use tough cooks of meat (no Kobe or Wagu), I'd like to see cooks cook low and slow rather than use power cooking methodology. But I am not the BBQ commissioner so I'll play with the rules as they are and take my chances, but I will not compromise on the basic notion that BBQ requires cooking with wood or a wood product as the heat source. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

We have a winner, Wink!

Well stated, VERY WELL.

I am of the opinion that electricity or gas shouldn't be used at all in
competition (except initial lighting of the fire); which would nix the
rotating shelves thing...

However, as you said, should those of us who prefer our offset stick
eaters get some extra points? HELL NO. If I cant compete with
an FEC, then I should be using an FEC...

BigJimsBBQ
12-22-2009, 12:20 PM
[QUOTE=CajunSmoker;1120623]

People already don't know the distinction between BBQ and grilling and if you throw gas into the mixture it will only perpetuate that myth.

I was thinking allowing Smokers that have gas assist, not grills.

[QUOTE=CajunSmoker;1120623]
You've got to draw the line somewhere.

It seems you have drawn the line right in front of you, not the good of BBQ competition. Using some of the legal means to cook BBQ in today's sanctioned events is already far from true BBQ. Either eliminate all the electronics/electricity allowed or allow LP Gas assisted Smokers.

Seems like the folks with the non-true BBQ sanctioned smokers wan't to critizise the allowance of LP Gas smokers. That is a bit hipacritical IMHO.

Oh well, Merry Cristmas and Happy New Years to Everyone and may your wishes turn into your blessings.

Double D's BBQ
12-22-2009, 12:36 PM
[QUOTE=Double D's BBQ;1121300]

I was thinking allowing Smokers that have gas assist, not grills.

[QUOTE=Double D's BBQ;1121300]

It seems you have drawn the line right in front of you, not the good of BBQ competition. Using some of the legal means to cook BBQ in today's sanctioned events is already far from true BBQ. Either eliminate all the electronics/electricity allowed or allow LP Gas assisted Smokers.

Seems like the folks with the non-true BBQ sanctioned smokers wan't to critizise the allowance of LP Gas smokers. That is a bit hipacritical IMHO.

Oh well, Merry Cristmas and Happy New Years to Everyone and may your wishes turn into your blessings.

Merry Christmas to you too! It sounds what you want is an all inclusive BBQ* contest. If that's what you wan't go for it. This is still America! KCBS was nothing more than a dream until the idea was put in motion many, many years ago!

Diva Q
12-22-2009, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=CajunSmoker;1120623]

I'd like to see cooks cook low and slow rather than use power cooking methodology. But I am not the BBQ commissioner so I'll play with the rules as they are and take my chances, but I will not compromise on the basic notion that BBQ requires cooking with wood or a wood product as the heat source. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

Ok you are telling me you run lo and slo on a Jambo? Are you kidding me?

Double D's BBQ
12-22-2009, 04:49 PM
[QUOTE=Double D's BBQ;1121300]

Ok you are telling me you run lo and slo on a Jambo? Are you kidding me?

A Jambo will run anyway you want it too, low and slow or hot and fast! Jamie told me his preference is 245, most cookers that I've seen use them, like 300 even better. A jambo is like a racehorce, just need to fire it up, kick in the belly, and say hahhhhhhhhhh!

QDoc
12-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Here's my objection to gas. Even with UL or similar approved devices there is a real possibility for an explosion. Because of the proximity of other teams and fans, 20x20 ft sites, I think it is a recipe for disaster.

chopshop
12-22-2009, 08:46 PM
finally a person who has an objection that doesnt pertain to "real BBQ"

BigJimsBBQ
12-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Here's my objection to gas. Even with UL or similar approved devices there is a real possibility for an explosion. Because of the proximity of other teams and fans, 20x20 ft sites, I think it is a recipe for disaster.

QDoc - Great Point but look around your next event and see all of the 20/30 lb LP Tanks for personal use (Not used on Smokers except ignite Sticks / Charcoal. Maybe an inspection of LP could be added to the meat inspection, if Team has LP on smoker.

Crash
12-22-2009, 11:05 PM
I would never competitively use gas myself, but I have no issue with it.

tmcmaster
12-22-2009, 11:56 PM
I wouldn't know what to do with it... one of the by products of the combustion of LP gas is water, which would throw off the smokey goodness. Not that I have any objection to LP based on "True-Q" or anything, but the safety concern is there, as well as, if you toss a gas inspection ON TOP of the site/meat inspection, you would have to have at least 1-2 MORE persons from the sanctioning body on site, which could certainly reduce the offset in prize money/awards if the rep is paid out of the contest fees...

Just my thoughts...


Merry Christmas to all!

HoDeDo
12-23-2009, 08:40 AM
Here's my objection to gas. Even with UL or similar approved devices there is a real possibility for an explosion. Because of the proximity of other teams and fans, 20x20 ft sites, I think it is a recipe for disaster.

QDoc - Great Point but look around your next event and see all of the 20/30 lb LP Tanks for personal use (Not used on Smokers except ignite Sticks / Charcoal. Maybe an inspection of LP could be added to the meat inspection, if Team has LP on smoker.

We have had brothers on here escape death, after igniter explosions. (Thank God, Jim) Many OkieJoe/Horizon, Bates, etc. offsets have a gas igniter similar to a fireplace igniter in them.... then you have all the brushburners, etc... and propane stove/chimney starters...

At the LP Que, you could not use a Gas pit that did not have a certified ignition system with a safety valve/thermocouple. You do bring up a GREAT point, but I would say you have a higher chance of issues today, than if you had LP on the radar for safety concerns. Anyone could have that igniter line open just a touch.... go to start thier fire and blow the doors off, with all that LP settled down in the bottom.

Nice to see that brought up.... if alot of people used gas cookers, it would definately be a concern to ensure there were rules to address... (i.e. a list of certified gas cookers that are allowed, or a process by which to get your unit approved, or prove it is UL or another sanctioning body SPEC). My guess is the only guys that would use it, are ones that have the pits they use in that fashion for catering/vending, and it would give them a way to utilize thier existing rig in a comp... cooking in a fashion they already are familiar with.

I dont see anyone using a lang, switching to gas :wink: Or a pellet pooper switching to gas either.... Now maybe those guys using electric cookers out there like a bradley, or amerique, or masterbuilt.... would be up in arms at that point :twisted: What about electric cookers with wood chip boxes..... hmmmm

Muzzlebrake
12-23-2009, 09:11 AM
35130

BigJimsBBQ
12-23-2009, 09:18 AM
I dont see anyone using a lang, switching to gas :wink:

Andy - Ben Lang offers a LP Gas option for those that cater and would start with sticks and switch to LP at bed time. Lets face it, meat only absorbs the smoke till it's surface temp reaches a Top Secret Temp:icon_shy.

smoke-n-my-i's
12-23-2009, 09:53 AM
I voted no, but if they ever do, I will just buy a couple of propane ovens, and set it, throw in a couple of foil pouches of wood, and go to bed... what a way to cook.... :rolleyes:

The_Kapn
12-24-2009, 08:13 AM
I welcome any type of cooker in competetion.
I am secure enough in my cooking that I am not intimidated by the type of cooker a team uses.
I am intimidated by the skill level of some cooks though, even if they cook in dutch ovens. :oops: That is legal, by the way, if wood (charcoal) is the heat source.

The more participants at an event, the more $$ available for the charity or (hopefully) the prize pool.

TIM

HoDeDo
12-24-2009, 08:22 AM
Andy - Ben Lang offers a LP Gas option for those that cater and would start with sticks and switch to LP at bed time. Lets face it, meat only absorbs the smoke till it's surface temp reaches a Top Secret Temp:icon_shy.

Yep, most of the offset manufacturers offer a gas start or gas assist . I just meant you wouldnt see guys that cook on that style of pit making a mass exodus to gas models as the sole heat source :razz:

BTW - non of those pits qualified for the LP Que, because they did not have a safety mechanism for the gas - like a thermocouple or other safety valve system on them, in the event the flame went out. We could not use our gas assisted Kingfisher for the same reason. We rented one of Arlie's Old Hickory CTOs for the event.

KnucklHed BBQ
12-24-2009, 03:48 PM
If you cook on charcoal and add wood chunks and call it BBQ, then you can cook on gas and add wood chunks and call it BBQ. If you use charcoal but say no to gas, are you afraid of the competion? I use a stick burner and have not said no to a computerized gravity fed chacoal or pellet fed smokers to compete with for true BBQ.

Why else would it matter? Cook, not the cooker. Golfer, not the clubs... Pretty sure Tiger & Jack aren't too afraid of me stepping on their greens using their clubs...

I wanted to stay out of this conversation, but it's getting a lot of traffic, and it's partially my fault. I made some comments about it in the other thread. To me, the first question is how do you define BBQ. I define BBQ as meat which has been cooked in dry heat (excluding oil poaching) so that it is tender and lean. Additionally smoke from either wood or charcoal (a wood derivitive) is used during the cooking process to impart a smokey flavour. Beyond that, there are many ways to produce BBQ: Stick burning, pellet burning, charcoal cooking, Minion cookers, gravity fed charcoal, digging holes in the ground, rotating on a spit over a fire, and I'm sure I'm missing a few. As long as it is tender and smokey, I'd call it Q.


On point! I'm probably in the minority, but I'm of the opinion that hot & fast brisket isn't BBQ, it's grilling. Even if there isn't direct heat involved, it's not slo & lo so it technically shouldn't qualify, but as long as you cook it over a wood heat source, nobody seems to mind...

Here's my objection to gas. Even with UL or similar approved devices there is a real possibility for an explosion. Because of the proximity of other teams and fans, 20x20 ft sites, I think it is a recipe for disaster.

seriously?? between motor homes, campers and weed burners, there are already enough LP tanks in the area to take out the entire event should something bad happen... I would be in favor of limiting the size of tanks allowed... You shouldn't be allowed to roll in with a 5,000 gallon tanker and hook up.

You've got a far better chance of biting it in traffic than going out LP style... :wink:

I welcome any type of cooker in competetion.
I am secure enough in my cooking that I am not intimidated by the type of cooker a team uses.

The more participants at an event, the more $$ available for the charity or (hopefully) the prize pool.

TIM

If LP grills or LP assisted cookers were allowed, all it would do is show the noobs that wood cooking is better and they would start making the switch.
My first backyard event I used my weber gasser (it's red so it's ok :biggrin:) because I didn't know any better, as I learned more about what "real" BBQ was, I took off the training wheels and got me some matchlight and lighter fluid (JK!). And I still continue to evolve. BUT, if I hadn't been able to use my gasser in the first place, I probably would have never learned the difference between Q and grilling, and so the name of real BBQ is maintained and a tradition continued.

Is now a good time to bring up the Steve Raichlen debate?? :twisted::twisted:

trekmstr
12-25-2009, 09:20 AM
how is using pellets any different? they have a temp control and are automatically fed from a hopper. just add pellets every few hours. i think that they have have a huge advantage over those of us that use charcoal or wood.