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View Full Version : How do we recruit new cooks to the KCBS


Ford
12-17-2009, 07:24 AM
According to a recent post by a BOD member 11,677 teams competed in contests this year. I'd assume more than half of them are not KCBS members. How can we promote the KCBS at these contests in order to increase membership?

The BBQ Tour isn;t hte answer as it does events that draw 100K+ crowds, not all the smaller contests out there. The KCBS needs a presence at these contests. Maybe a 10x10 booth with a table and person there with materials and to answer questions. Could work with organizers to staff it with volunteers and cooks.

Bbq Bubba
12-17-2009, 07:46 AM
Are you volunteering Ford? :)

Skip
12-17-2009, 07:55 AM
Unfortunately I think the only way is to offer monetary compensation. If non KCBS teams were charged a premium to compete in KCBS sanctioned events then there would be a reason to join. It may not be the most respectable way of doing it but it would get people to join. At the same time they should tout their benefits front and center on any application for an event that charged a premium. There are masny benefits and if showcased may make people feel better about having their arm twisted. The fee would need to be more then a KCBS membership to assure that one contest teams still have a reason to join.

It might also be a good idea to have a team membership just like a family membership. Four team members per membership or so. It might just be a way of making membership more attractive.

ThomEmery
12-17-2009, 07:58 AM
A members only KCBS Forum and a points races that work for Hobbyist teams

drbbq
12-17-2009, 07:59 AM
There was a little trailer that was doing just that a few years ago. Tony Stone was very involved and so was Steve Owenby if I remember correctly. Not sure what ever happened with that.

Merl
12-17-2009, 08:38 AM
There was a little trailer that was doing just that a few years ago. Tony Stone was very involved and so was Steve Owenby if I remember correctly. Not sure what ever happened with that.

About two months ago, Gene - Membership chairperson tried to reactivate the small trailer for membership recruitment. The current board said it was not time or cost effective for its purposes and directed membership to seek alternate methods of membership recruitment.

Merl

monty3777
12-17-2009, 08:41 AM
IMO, a seriously active Mentoring System. How many folks on these forums wonder about competitions out loud? If there were good teams in place to invite these folks, in an organized and formal way, to participate in a competition on behalf of the KCBS as a "teammate for a day" you'd hook every single one of them. That's how it all started for me. An organizer hooked me up with the Texas Rib Rangers.

ZILLA
12-17-2009, 08:51 AM
Hi Merl, I'm not a member of KCBS. I can cook most BBQ contests in the US without any membership or affiliation, KCBS, IBCA et al. Explain to me why I should give them $30.00 for a membership? What benefit is there for me to join?

Seriously, lets run through this and see where it takes us.

ZILLA
12-17-2009, 08:55 AM
I can tell you that the Restaurant Depot membership deal has me ready to join. However cooking KCBS on a regular basis is a non starter for me. It's simply too far for all but one contest and that's pushing it.

Lake Dogs
12-17-2009, 09:02 AM
I can tell you that the Restaurant Depot membership deal has me ready to join. However cooking KCBS on a regular basis is a non starter for me. It's simply too far for all but one contest and that's pushing it.

Zilla, I posed this same question months ago and got some answers. As
I'm not interested in pursuing TOY awards, dont have the time nor money
to travel all over hell's 1/2 acres and only plan to participate in 6+- cookoffs
per year, I dont see it (the benefit). Diva gave a wonderful speach about
support the organization, but of the 6+- cookoffs that I'll participate in,
only 2 or 3 are KCBS... Then there was the "allow you to vote" thing,
but frankly, I dont know those folks and couldn't care whether Fred gets
it vs. Larry... I have no worthwhile knowledgeable opinion where that is
concerned, so again, there is no real benefit (for me).

Skip
12-17-2009, 09:07 AM
IMO, a seriously active Mentoring System. How many folks on these forums wonder about competitions out loud? If there were good teams in place to invite these folks, in an organized and formal way, to participate in a competition on behalf of the KCBS as a "teammate for a day" you'd hook every single one of them. That's how it all started for me. An organizer hooked me up with the Texas Rib Rangers.


Unfortunately you can't force people to join in but we have a mentoring program here. I think this works for those who are eager to try it out but if they are 1 or 2 contest people and don't understand the organization they will continue to do their contests and pay the same amount as KCBS members to compete.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=49&page=1&pp=30&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

I still think you have to offer a discount to members or offer a benefit for membership that really draws people in. The Bullsheet is great for those who want it but not a selling feature. The choice hotel discount does offer travellers a reason to join but wouldn't grab the masses. The restaurant depot benefit will bring in non business owners who compete a lot and may be one of the biggest draws of all the benefits. Unless you can sell the KCBS membership on its benefits we may have to think about premium pricing for non members. Could blow up in KCBS' proverbial face too though....Especially with this economy.

ZILLA
12-17-2009, 09:11 AM
I thought KCBS hired a marketing company or some such group to do this for them?

Jorge
12-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Hi Merl, I'm not a member of KCBS. I can cook most BBQ contests in the US without any membership or affiliation, KCBS, IBCA et al. Explain to me why I should give them $30.00 for a membership? What benefit is there for me to join?

Seriously, lets run through this and see where it takes us.

Whether you travel to a contest or not, the Comfort Inn discount should help you recover that investment. Restaurant Depot should help as well, especially for you now that HEB is so dominant in your area and their pricing reflects it.

As for IBCA....added money at Trader's. I suspect that since you will be cooking on your own more this year that you'll be qualified for Trader's, and you have to have that IBCA membership to be eligible for all of that added money:wink:

Lake Dogs
12-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Whether you travel to a contest or not, the Comfort Inn discount should help you recover that investment. Restaurant Depot should help as well, especially for you now that HEB is so dominant in your area and their pricing reflects it.

As for IBCA....added money at Trader's. I suspect that since you will be cooking on your own more this year that you'll be qualified for Trader's, and you have to have that IBCA membership to be eligible for all of that added money:wink:

Jorge, not everyone is close to a Restaurant Depot (150+ miles to the
closest one to me; not worth the drive, frankly) and it's unlikely that I'd ever
use a discount to any hotel/motel chain, Comort Inn or not (we have an
RV so that we dont have to do that).

ZILLA
12-17-2009, 09:53 AM
Whether you travel to a contest or not, the Comfort Inn discount should help you recover that investment. Restaurant Depot should help as well, especially for you now that HEB is so dominant in your area and their pricing reflects it.

As for IBCA....added money at Trader's. I suspect that since you will be cooking on your own more this year that you'll be qualified for Trader's, and you have to have that IBCA membership to be eligible for all of that added money:wink:

Yes the added money in the Texas clubs is a motivator. The Comfort Inn is a good one too.

Ford
12-17-2009, 10:02 AM
Whether you travel to a contest or not, the Comfort Inn discount should help you recover that investment.
I get the same with AARP, AAA and other programs. And there are a lot of hotels with better rates especially ifyou do advance bookings.

ZILLA
12-17-2009, 10:12 AM
If folks won't join for the sake of being envolved and supporting your organization and if you decide they need a greater material motivator than try to add more motivators.

OK so far I get:

Satisfaction of supporting my organization
I'm eligable for COTY
I'll get the Bull Sheet
Organization voting rights
I can run for office
Restaurant Depot membership
Comfort Inn discount

So if that's not enough...... Maybe some more travel or BBQ related companies would add a small token to the effort.

Maybe KCBS can work a deal with Sams and Costco for discounted membership rates.

Maybe AAA would be willing to make a membership deal of some type for those that travel.

Maybe Discount Tire or NBT would offer members a one time discount coupon for an emergency tire repair.

Maybe Garmin GPS systems would offer a discout coupon on a new GPS system for members.

Maybe other motel chains can offer discounts.

How about sending new members one of those big coupon books for food and entertainment.

A Kingford Charcoal coupon.

Carvan canopys discount or upgrade

A KCBS bumper sticker.....

The Pigman
12-17-2009, 10:31 AM
I would sign up for that...........................travel for KCBS yes

Bbq Bubba
12-17-2009, 11:47 AM
A sticker would seal the deal!

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 12:25 PM
A sticker would seal the deal!

A free reach around?

Ford
12-17-2009, 12:39 PM
Try thinking as one of those cooks that is not a member? What's the incentive for you to join? Many of these folks cook once a year at a local contest and they don't care about reading the bullsheet and there's no RD close, etc.

I like pushing it helps promoteBBQ and competition and that stuff but what's in it for them? I don't have the answer.

NotleyQue
12-17-2009, 12:50 PM
Whether you travel to a contest or not, the Comfort Inn discount should help you recover that investment.

Huh? I am a KCBS member but what is this comfort inn discount you speak of. I know nothing of this.

Jorge
12-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Huh? I am a KCBS member but what is this comfort inn discount you speak of. I know nothing of this.

Log on to the KCBS site. There is a discount code available that is good for about $15 per night. Or shoot the office some email with your membership info and ask for the code.

Skip
12-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Try thinking as one of those cooks that is not a member? What's the incentive for you to join? Many of these folks cook once a year at a local contest and they don't care about reading the bullsheet and there's no RD close, etc.

I like pushing it helps promoteBBQ and competition and that stuff but what's in it for them? I don't have the answer.

Thats why I was saying that you need to charge a premium to non member teams. I really didn't care about the KCBS when I started. It was just something that was there and I question whether I would even be a member now if it weren't for the need to join to be a certified judge. I really don't think I would've no matter how much I appreciated BBQ or liked how KCBS promoted or ran contests. That stuff really would've been a non issue and i would have contined to participate in KCBS events and reaped the benefits FOR THE SAME COST as member teams.
Now once I joined the KCBS I became curious as to what it was all about. Heck if I am paying for a membership I might as well become familiar with it. So I did. Now I am very much involved in what goes on. I am going to the banquet as well and there I will attend the rules committee meeting and possibly others. I appreciate my membership and what it does for me. I also appreciate that my money goes to this organization and what my money helps it do.
KCBS doesn't save starving people in Africa so you aren't going to get people to just fork over money for the principle. KCBS membership doesn't afford you discounts at sanctioned events so you won't get thrifty competitors to jump on board. KCBS offers some perks but many of them aren't all encompassing for the membership nor do some of them even apply to membership in areas without the business i.e. Restaurant Depot. Any kind of perk related to membership would help if it applies to everyone. If KCBS provided meats the members could chose first or if meat was supplied then the KCBS members would get reduced rates. Money makes it all happen.

WineMaster
12-17-2009, 01:20 PM
Hear is a question that I am not sure has been asked, But Why does it have to be the Kansas City BBQ Society. If growing the membership is important to you, couldnt you convert to a larger body of potential prospects like an American BBQ society or National BBQ Society. Different results are fed by different ways of thinking.

Ford
12-17-2009, 01:20 PM
Skip - as most people cooking contests are not members and as contests are put on by independent organizers and not the KCBS charging an additional fee for non members isn't practical. It was tried and most organizers said no. Some threatend to drop KCBS sanctioning. Lots of teams said what's this? Is this contests put on by KCBS? Well no. Then if it's for a local charity I'll pay but not for KCBS.

We need to find another answer. Otherwise the answer is there is no benefit to them so they won't join.

Ford
12-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Hear is a question that I am not sure has been asked, But Why does it have to be the Kansas City BBQ Society. If growing the membership is important to you, couldnt you convert to a larger body of potential prospects like an American BBQ society or National BBQ Society. Different results are fed by different ways of thinking.
KCBS branding is recognized nationally as the premier bbq organization in this country. It's made great strides in this area in the past few years. A large portion of membership is outside the KC area. Don't have stats but remember them being posted this year sometime.

Lake Dogs
12-17-2009, 01:23 PM
How about a good *smack* from Diva herself. THAT might do it.

Lake Dogs
12-17-2009, 01:27 PM
KCBS branding is recognized nationally as the premier bbq organization in this country. It's made great strides in this area in the past few years. A large portion of membership is outside the KC area. Don't have stats but remember them being posted this year sometime.

Ford, respectfully, I'm not certain about "recognized nationally as the
premier bbq organization". Around here, most new cookoff organizers
have never heard of KCBS, but they have heard of Memphis in May / MBN.
Not saying MBN is better. I personally like KCBS better, but that's my
personal take. F Y I. Perhaps we're just mutants in Georgia. Certainly
we know Myron IS (a mutant).

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 01:32 PM
How about a good *smack* from Diva herself. THAT might do it.

That's what I asked for from Santa. VQ says it comes with sprinkles!










cupcake

Ford
12-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Ford, respectfully, I'm not certain about "recognized nationally as the
premier bbq organization". Around here, most new cookoff organizers
have never heard of KCBS, but they have heard of Memphis in May / MBN.
Not saying MBN is better. I personally like KCBS better, but that's my
personal take. F Y I. Perhaps we're just mutants in Georgia. Certainly
we know Myron IS (a mutant).
In many south eastern states your are correct that MBN is more recognized although it's still called MIM by many so there's a problem. But recognition of KCBS is greater that it used to be in all Satest and if a survey was done od non BBQ people I bet KCBS would win most states and many by a wide margin.

And Myron is one heck of a good cook that's a fact.

Capn Kev
12-17-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm not a member yet, but will be in January after I complete my judging class. I just started cooking contests in 2009, and the primary factor for me joining is the fact that there are almost 10 KCBS contests within a 3-4 hour driving radius of my home.

Skip
12-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Skip - as most people cooking contests are not members and as contests are put on by independent organizers and not the KCBS charging an additional fee for non members isn't practical. It was tried and most organizers said no. Some threatend to drop KCBS sanctioning. Lots of teams said what's this? Is this contests put on by KCBS? Well no. Then if it's for a local charity I'll pay but not for KCBS.

We need to find another answer. Otherwise the answer is there is no benefit to them so they won't join.

KCBS branding is recognized nationally as the premier bbq organization in this country. It's made great strides in this area in the past few years. A large portion of membership is outside the KC area. Don't have stats but remember them being posted this year sometime.


You speak of people dropping KCBS then state how respected it is and its that respect that I think would allow the premium cost to fly. If KCBS had not caved to organizers protests they may have won out. I have done non sanctioned events and realize how much better off I am at a KCBS event. The first question I ask about a new event is if its a KCBS event. I think that if they stood strong and required it that it would stick. Even if the extra fee was just rolled into the prize money. If you don't hit them in the pocket they really won't budge.

WineMaster
12-17-2009, 01:40 PM
KCBS branding is recognized nationally as the premier bbq organization in this country. It's made great strides in this area in the past few years. A large portion of membership is outside the KC area. Don't have stats but remember them being posted this year sometime.


So you are sayin people should pay to join cause its the biggest and the best. HMMM Hows that working for them.

Ford
12-17-2009, 01:43 PM
Membership is at all time highs and from what I hear there were 40+ new members as a result of the first pitmasters show. Now they may not be competition cooks but in fact competition cooks are a minority.

Lake Dogs
12-17-2009, 01:43 PM
Other organizations that I either am currently a member or have been a member of
require membership to compete in the event. If you're not a member when you sign
up, there's an extra charge for membership (or a discount if you're already a member).
KCBS is inexpensive, relatively. Mind you, I'm not a member, and I have no need to
be a member as it's currently designed. However, if it were required, it wouldn't
be a big deal, to me anyway... The sports event sanctioning bodies that I work
with require membership (USA Swimming, USA Triathlon). For some reason, the
cooking sanctioning bodies (CASI, KCBS, MBN, etc) dont.

Skip
12-17-2009, 01:44 PM
So you are sayin people should pay to join cause its the biggest and the best. HMMM Hows that working for them.


You should re read the thread. I think that is the opposite of what Ford is trying to say. :lol:

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Memphis in May also has the benefit of being the name of one of the country's largest contests. So that helps with name recognition.

WineMaster
12-17-2009, 02:01 PM
I still say that if you define a society by a region. You are capping the potential.

Ford
12-17-2009, 02:04 PM
Other organizations that I either am currently a member or have been a member of
require membership to compete in the event. If you're not a member when you sign
up, there's an extra charge for membership (or a discount if you're already a member).
KCBS is inexpensive, relatively. Mind you, I'm not a member, and I have no need to
be a member as it's currently designed. However, if it were required, it wouldn't
be a big deal, to me anyway... The sports event sanctioning bodies that I work
with require membership (USA Swimming, USA Triathlon). For some reason, the
cooking sanctioning bodies (CASI, KCBS, MBN, etc) dont.
The difference is USA Swimming puts on the event. KCBS provided resources to ensure it is run according to KCBS rules but it does not run the event and it does not share in the profit or loss. Same for the other cooking ogranizations.

moocow
12-17-2009, 02:12 PM
I pay my money just for the Bull Sheet, everybody here likes to read it. It is pretty crappy that you can't even get a free bumper sticker. But the RD membership is almost priceless if you don't have a business.

Skip
12-17-2009, 02:14 PM
I still say that if you define a society by a region. You are capping the potential.


Well I can understand what you are saying but you have to realize that almost every other BBQ association or society uses the KCBS information as there rules for competition. Either by accepting sanctioning from them or borrowing heavily from their format. As much as the everyday person isn't going to know what KCBS is they won't know what FBA, MBN, PNWBA etc are. But anyone who has been around BBQ knows of or has heard of KCBS. Of course there are exceptions to everything but this holds true throughout the country. I recently did some research on other sanctioning bodies only to find that four have there own rules and one of them is KCBS. All the others either use KCBS or have few if any rules about competition. The three others have rules that very closely mimick KCBS rules.
The KC in KCBS doesn't refer to KCK or Missouri. It refers to a specific style of BBQ which the cooks do their best to emulate. It would be the same as a TBS (Texas BBQ Society) or a NCBS (North Carolina BBQ Society). Each would refer to a specific style of BBQ rather then just the region.

CajunSmoker
12-17-2009, 02:40 PM
When they tried the added fee for non KCBS members last year I though they went about it the wrong way. They should have charged the amount of the first year KCBS membership for the head cook at the first contest they cooked and signed them up. After that it would be a non factor for that team as long as they kept the same head cook.

Another way of doing it could have been, instead of charging more for a non KCBS member to enter a contest, they could have given a discounted entry fee for KCBS members which could have given an incentive to join.

leanza
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
I believe incentives will drive membership. The more, the more.

Skip
12-17-2009, 03:58 PM
Maybe they need to offer as "lifetime" membership. Or a 5 year membership. This might help with the people who do maybe two contests a year. I think that the fee for non KCBS member teams should be more then the membership. This would definitely push people to join. Also as I mentioned maybe the family membership should apply to a team membership.

Bbq Bubba
12-17-2009, 05:04 PM
A free reach around?

Thats why i joined, Jeff promised me one. :twisted:

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Thats why I was saying that you need to charge a premium to non member teams. I really didn't care about the KCBS when I started. It was just something that was there and I question whether I would even be a member now if it weren't for the need to join to be a certified judge. I really don't think I would've no matter how much I appreciated BBQ or liked how KCBS promoted or ran contests. That stuff really would've been a non issue and i would have contined to participate in KCBS events and reaped the benefits FOR THE SAME COST as member teams.
Now once I joined the KCBS I became curious as to what it was all about. Heck if I am paying for a membership I might as well become familiar with it. So I did. Now I am very much involved in what goes on. I am going to the banquet as well and there I will attend the rules committee meeting and possibly others. I appreciate my membership and what it does for me. I also appreciate that my money goes to this organization and what my money helps it do.
KCBS doesn't save starving people in Africa so you aren't going to get people to just fork over money for the principle. KCBS membership doesn't afford you discounts at sanctioned events so you won't get thrifty competitors to jump on board. KCBS offers some perks but many of them aren't all encompassing for the membership nor do some of them even apply to membership in areas without the business i.e. Restaurant Depot. Any kind of perk related to membership would help if it applies to everyone. If KCBS provided meats the members could chose first or if meat was supplied then the KCBS members would get reduced rates. Money makes it all happen.

I think they key is the perk has to come from KCBS.... Not a contest. These events are paying the KCBS for a service - the sanctioning and judging machine. They are usually not worried about increasing the KCBS membership... I wouldnt expect an organizer to charge a KCBS member less. But I do agree, that if there were some type of perks.... even something as simple as ice chits that the KCBS funds back out of thier sanctioning fee or something.... that would add a KCBS benefit that drives more competitive cooks to join.

I think what has to happen is a little different. I think they need to continue to go to all the non BBQ events/festivals... use the tour trailer to its max potential... and get non competitive folks joining.... as they look at the site, and learn -- they will also learn about competitive BBQ... and that will drive new competitive cooks.

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 05:56 PM
I pay my money just for the Bull Sheet, everybody here likes to read it. It is pretty crappy that you can't even get a free bumper sticker. But the RD membership is almost priceless if you don't have a business. I got a "BBQ" oval bumper/window sticker!

I think that the fee for non KCBS member teams should be more then the membership. This would definitely push people to join. Also as I mentioned maybe the family membership should apply to a team membership.

Skip - we have to come up with something else. KCBS is not organizing these events. For example, if the rotary is a beneficiary of the event - and organizing it... they are worried about thier organization, not KCBS.
They are only using KCBS for the service they are paying KCBS to provide.
A perfect example is the APWA -- they host a contest, and part of the entry fee is your membership to thier organization. ABA (American Bass Anglers) does this as well.... These organizers have no responsiblity at all to help boost KCBS Membership - they have their own organizations/charities that they would support first. KCBS is providing a paid service. If they wanted to boost membership from the event, there needs to be some other visible/viable perk from KCBS -- not the event.

Smoke'n Ice
12-17-2009, 06:11 PM
My only comment is it allows you to bitch about any and everything that goes on. It also allows you to actually make a difference in how the contests are run by exercising your vote and to participate in the BOD meeting by requesting the right.

The next time a subject about how a contest is run comes up, please refain from posting unless you are a dues paying member of the organization that make a difference in competition BBQ.

Smoke'n Ice
KCBS Member
PNWBA Member
certified judge for both
competition cook in both
live in Texas
travel to BC, OK, KS, AR, OH, you get the idea
have a small cafe and tea room and DO NOT SELL BBQ or any related products
just my two cents and change worth.

LindaM
12-17-2009, 06:16 PM
Thats why I was saying that you need to charge a premium to non member teams. I really didn't care about the KCBS when I started. It was just something that was there and I question whether I would even be a member now if it weren't for the need to join to be a certified judge. I really don't think I would've no matter how much I appreciated BBQ or liked how KCBS promoted or ran contests. That stuff really would've been a non issue and i would have contined to participate in KCBS events and reaped the benefits FOR THE SAME COST as member teams.
Now once I joined the KCBS I became curious as to what it was all about. Heck if I am paying for a membership I might as well become familiar with it. So I did. Now I am very much involved in what goes on. I am going to the banquet as well and there I will attend the rules committee meeting and possibly others. I appreciate my membership and what it does for me. I also appreciate that my money goes to this organization and what my money helps it do.
KCBS doesn't save starving people in Africa so you aren't going to get people to just fork over money for the principle. KCBS membership doesn't afford you discounts at sanctioned events so you won't get thrifty competitors to jump on board. KCBS offers some perks but many of them aren't all encompassing for the membership nor do some of them even apply to membership in areas without the business i.e. Restaurant Depot. Any kind of perk related to membership would help if it applies to everyone. If KCBS provided meats the members could chose first or if meat was supplied then the KCBS members would get reduced rates. Money makes it all happen.

Skip 2 years ago that was put in place - an additional $25 per contest for non members - the annual meeting had the organizers and cooks going crazy over it - it was removed the following month. There are actually some contests that still do it, especially those on the East Coast who understood the concept.

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 08:04 PM
I think the concept is great, but most organizers would use that extra $ for thier charity, prize pot, etc...


The challenge would be for KCBS to come up with a benefit, that would have relevance to everyone entering the competition vs. putting it on the organizers of the events.

As was noted in someone elses example, a guy cooking 1 contest a year (probably entering due to his/her affiliation with the organization/charity) may not see the value... and at the end of the day... the organizers are trying to show value to all entrants. and not penalize folks that are entering for reasons other than the KCBS sanctioning.

I do think we could come up with something.... but it will likely need to be a little out of the box... and appeal to more than just the "competitive" set -- to give the organizers a reason to see it as a value for all the folks that enter their events for whatever reason... Or they need to roll it up into a different program... like providing a code for a discounted entry for cooking at a sanctioned contest.... or offering a discounted entry at the end of the cooks meeting... etc....

SirPorkaLot
12-17-2009, 08:28 PM
What is this KCBS you speak of? :rolleyes:

small budget teams (i resemble that remark) far out number the big budget teams.

I do it because I enjoy cooking, i enjoy competing, and I enjoy the fellowship

Like others I will compete in 1/2 a dozen or less contests a year, mostly in the Southeast (home of REAL bbq :twisted:), and I have yet to read anything in here that would make me want to join KCBS.
I spend more than 35.00 on beer for a good weekend of Q'n so the money is not the issue.

What is in it for me?

Muzzlebrake
12-17-2009, 08:45 PM
I think they should do what they have been doing, at least here in this part of the country. KCBS contests have grown rapidly and now we even have a state championship series where before we barely had any contests three or four years ago. Contest entries have grown rapidly as well. I think that KCBS membership is up the couple of years, but could not find where I had read that. I think they are attracting more cooks.

I do think that membership should be required. I can't think of anywhere else that membership in the sanctioning body isn't required to compete in a sanctioned event. Interesting Ford that you assumed a 50% membership, that based on just observations over the years? Wonder if its even that high.........There are ways that membership can be mandated, organizers fees could be based on membership percentage or something to that effect. If a nominal membership fee is going to be too steep, you are probably in the wrong hobby anyway. Buck up and pay it, its the cheapest thing at a comp.

For people that live in areas where another sanctioning body is present, they may not get anything out of KCBS and may be better off with their own local sanctioning body, but the KCBS is far more national than the majority of other organizations.

Gene01
12-17-2009, 09:20 PM
Maybe they need to offer as "lifetime" membership. Or a 5 year membership. This might help with the people who do maybe two contests a year. I think that the fee for non KCBS member teams should be more then the membership. This would definitely push people to join. Also as I mentioned maybe the family membership should apply to a team membership.

We are already working on a lifetime membership as a matter of fact... it was a topic at the last board meeting.... may happen real soon

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 09:38 PM
I think they should do what they have been doing, at least here in this part of the country. KCBS contests have grown rapidly and now we even have a state championship series where before we barely had any contests three or four years ago. Contest entries have grown rapidly as well. I think that KCBS membership is up the couple of years, but could not find where I had read that. I think they are attracting more cooks.

I do think that membership should be required. I can't think of anywhere else that membership in the sanctioning body isn't required to compete in a sanctioned event. Interesting Ford that you assumed a 50% membership, that based on just observations over the years? Wonder if its even that high.........There are ways that membership can be mandated, organizers fees could be based on membership percentage or something to that effect. If a nominal membership fee is going to be too steep, you are probably in the wrong hobby anyway. Buck up and pay it, its the cheapest thing at a comp.

For people that live in areas where another sanctioning body is present, they may not get anything out of KCBS and may be better off with their own local sanctioning body, but the KCBS is far more national than the majority of other organizations.

In all those other cases, the sanctioning body shares in the profit/loss of the event.... with marketing $$, overall purse money, guaranteed TV time, etc. etc. In these events... the sanctioning is paid for as a service... and the event is there usually to raise money or awareness for some other sponsored function. The organizer has to take care of their organization and sponsors first, since that is where the $$ comes from.... then KCBS second. I think it would be awesome if KCBS came up with a way to draw the small cooks in with some value at a higher level.... and use the cookoff as a way to get that upsell. But when an Organizer is paying KCBS for sanctioning, and KCBS has no skin in the game for prize money guarantees.... you can't really expect an organizer to add something in. I would expect them to give KCBS a tent to set up and pimp the society to all at the event... and work membership drives at that level... selling on the value that they provide. (membership, contest list, access to recipes, and other cook team info (if they have bios submitted) and the bullsheet)...

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 09:40 PM
We are already working on a lifetime membership as a matter of fact... it was a topic at the last board meeting.... may happen real soon

That is a great idea... I know I procrastinate keeping my dues up, but i imagine we lose alot of members just to attrition from the annual dues and forgetting to pay... or changing email address etc. and they lose that contact/touchpoint.

moocow
12-17-2009, 10:16 PM
What if there was some bonus money available to the winner if they were a KCBS member. It would need to be paid by the KCBS and not the orginizer of corse. Lets say the winner gets a $100 bonus but 3 new people joined the kCBS for a shot of the bonus so the KCBS just made there money back and got three new members. This may not make sence at some smaller contests but at the royal for instance it could be hundreds in bonus money and lead to a lot of new members. I know its not exactly the same thing but there sure was a lot of people using Kingsford Comp. at the royal to try to double there money. Or maybe its not winning based but a drawling by the KCBS reps of every KCBS team at the event, That way you don't even have to be a good cook the be eligible to win the bonus. You just have to be a member to be eligible. What do you guys think?

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 10:38 PM
What if there was some bonus money available to the winner if they were a KCBS member. It would need to be paid by the KCBS and not the orginizer of corse. Lets say the winner gets a $100 bonus but 3 new people joined the kCBS for a shot of the bonus so the KCBS just made there money back and got three new members. This may not make sence at some smaller contests but at the royal for instance it could be hundreds in bonus money and lead to a lot of new members. I know its not exactly the same thing but there sure was a lot of people using Kingsford Comp. at the royal to try to double there money. Or maybe its not winning based but a drawling by the KCBS reps of every KCBS team at the event, That way you don't even have to be a good cook the be eligible to win the bonus. You just have to be a member to be eligible. What do you guys think?

There we go!! something that KCBS can do in conjunction with the event.. but it has standalone value as something KCBS - and it could draw in new cooks that are curious...

Diva
12-17-2009, 11:00 PM
Skip 2 years ago that was put in place - an additional $25 per contest for non members - the annual meeting had the organizers and cooks going crazy over it - it was removed the following month. There are actually some contests that still do it, especially those on the East Coast who understood the concept.

The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS not being able to charge the extra funds themselves due to their tax status.....correct???Sooooo, since KCBS couldn't charge the funds and DEMAND that any team cooking a KCBS sanctioned contest WITHOUT being a member doesn't pan with the tax man, they decided to 'put it on the organizers'. Personally, the knee jerk reactions are a bit tiresome. How about the Board get off their respective asses and actually do something productive THEMSELVES instead of trying to pass the buck?

Muzzlebrake
12-18-2009, 08:41 AM
In all those other cases, the sanctioning body shares in the profit/loss of the event.... with marketing $$, overall purse money, guaranteed TV time, etc. etc. In these events... the sanctioning is paid for as a service... and the event is there usually to raise money or awareness for some other sponsored function. The organizer has to take care of their organization and sponsors first, since that is where the $$ comes from.... then KCBS second. I think it would be awesome if KCBS came up with a way to draw the small cooks in with some value at a higher level.... and use the cookoff as a way to get that upsell. But when an Organizer is paying KCBS for sanctioning, and KCBS has no skin in the game for prize money guarantees.... you can't really expect an organizer to add something in. I would expect them to give KCBS a tent to set up and pimp the society to all at the event... and work membership drives at that level... selling on the value that they provide. (membership, contest list, access to recipes, and other cook team info (if they have bios submitted) and the bullsheet)...

yes and no. When I was playing rugby in order to compete in our league everyone on our team had to be a member of USA Rugby which had no direct involvement with the league and was in no way sharing in the profit or loss. The same went with tournaments, all team members were required to have a vaild membership card but the tournaments were completely separate and not run by or administered by USA Rugby. The same type of thing I believe happens with golf. In order to compete in a even their own club tournament, players are required to be USGA members. USGA sanctions these contests but doesn't share in the prize money or expenses.

All that being said, mandatory membership may be good for increasing membership but is not addressing the original idea of this thread which is what does it take to recruit cooks. I think that you are right in that more things are going to be needed in order to make it worthwhile to join. I think that KCBS does and outstanding job ( for the most part, there are always exceptions) with the way contests are organized and run it is going to take more than that to attract cooks especially in regions where there may be more than one sanctioning body. It would be nice to get more bennies with membership but isn't that the case with everything?

kurtsara
12-18-2009, 10:15 AM
What if there was some bonus money available to the winner if they were a KCBS member. It would need to be paid by the KCBS and not the orginizer of corse. Lets say the winner gets a $100 bonus but 3 new people joined the kCBS for a shot of the bonus so the KCBS just made there money back and got three new members. This may not make sence at some smaller contests but at the royal for instance it could be hundreds in bonus money and lead to a lot of new members. I know its not exactly the same thing but there sure was a lot of people using Kingsford Comp. at the royal to try to double there money. Or maybe its not winning based but a drawling by the KCBS reps of every KCBS team at the event, That way you don't even have to be a good cook the be eligible to win the bonus. You just have to be a member to be eligible. What do you guys think?


Might end up like Nascar, you get paid by the decals you have on your smoker, a guy finishing 10 makes more money than the 7th place guy cause he has more decals

lunchlady
12-18-2009, 10:36 AM
The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS ...

As much as I normally agree with you Steph, I think I have to disagree with this a little bit. Not the knee-jerk reaction part, I'm with you there... but the idea's beginnings in general.

I was a member of the KCBS Research and Development Committee a coupla years back, and I believe the concept stemmed from there; trying to bring about more member benefits. As a matter of fact, the committee specifically discussed NEBS and its policy.

There are events in the NorthEast that give NEBS members a discounted entry fee. It has ALWAYS been considered one of the 'benefits' of being a NEBS member.

This 'new concept', had it been brought forward in a different light, as a BENEFIT (instead of 'non-members pay more and the organizer gets to do the work')... I think it may have been received much better.

Plowboy
12-18-2009, 10:41 AM
We are already working on a lifetime membership as a matter of fact... it was a topic at the last board meeting.... may happen real soon

Cool idea, Gene. Even a multi-year membership would be nice.

Skip
12-18-2009, 10:45 AM
What about KCBS discounting their fee relative to the amount of KCBS teams?

Set up a fee schedule with the normal fee expected for sanctioning and for each existing KCBS member team get x amount off. For each team the organizer gets to join KCBS due to the event they could offer y amount off. This gives the organizer a reason to sign teams up rather then forcing them to do so.

This does, in a way, bring in more cooks. Although KCBS isn't bringing in people off their couch they are increasing membership.

moocow
12-18-2009, 10:55 AM
What about a one time free KCBS membership when you enter your first contest. After a year of receiving the Bullsheet and other perks they would probably renew.

Muzzlebrake
12-18-2009, 11:26 AM
What about a one time free KCBS membership when you enter your first contest. After a year of receiving the Bullsheet and other perks they would probably renew.

I think improving the Bullsheet would go a long way towards getting new people. I think it has gotten better with the some of the articles, but page after page of board notes and names of new members isn't the most exciting read. I would think that with all of the bloggers that are competitors we could easily fill those pages with something more interesting and appealing to the general public

Muzzlebrake
12-18-2009, 11:36 AM
What about KCBS discounting their fee relative to the amount of KCBS teams?

Set up a fee schedule with the normal fee expected for sanctioning and for each existing KCBS member team get x amount off. For each team the organizer gets to join KCBS due to the event they could offer y amount off. This gives the organizer a reason to sign teams up rather then forcing them to do so.

This does, in a way, bring in more cooks. Although KCBS isn't bringing in people off their couch they are increasing membership.

or offer organizers incentives to increase membership by offering them a discounted or recruiter rate to sign people up. The NRA does this for its recruiters and I believe so do numerous veterans organizations. Once again, this is not necessarily going to recruit new cooks but will increase membership.
I think the best way to recruit new people is to provide excellent service and have a clear cut benefit to being a member.

moocow
12-18-2009, 12:11 PM
I think improving the Bullsheet would go a long way towards getting new people. I think it has gotten better with the some of the articles, but page after page of board notes and names of new members isn't the most exciting read. I would think that with all of the bloggers that are competitors we could easily fill those pages with something more interesting and appealing to the general public
Agree!

Diva
12-18-2009, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=Diva;1116682]The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS not being able to charge the extra funds themselves due to their tax status.....correct????/QUOTE]

No biggie Michelle, we can't all agree on everything. My point was that KCBS cannot make it mandatory that every team be a member of KCBS in order to cook in KCBS contests due to their tax status.

The way it was "introduced" was about as good as they way they're introducing reducing the bonus points for TOY.

Have a Happy Holiday! Hugs to Gary and the kids!

LindaM
12-18-2009, 07:21 PM
[QUOTE=Diva;1116682]The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS not being able to charge the extra funds themselves due to their tax status.....correct????/QUOTE]

No biggie Michelle, we can't all agree on everything. My point was that KCBS cannot make it mandatory that every team be a member of KCBS in order to cook in KCBS contests due to their tax status.

The way it was "introduced" was about as good as they way they're introducing reducing the bonus points for TOY.

Have a Happy Holiday! Hugs to Gary and the kids!

Stephanie,
Just to let you know the roll out was by MMA for the discount for KCBS members. They did not present it the way it was supposed to be. As Michelle said it was to be a "benefit" based on the way NEBS and a few other organizations do it. That is the reason we still have contests on the East doing the discount for KCBS members. Those organizers understood the concept.

A lot of research went into the reduction of bonus points for TOY and without all of the facts I do think you are bashing something good. Obviously it is something personal and I really don't know why.

Diva
12-19-2009, 08:16 AM
[QUOTE=Diva;1117248]

Stephanie,
Just to let you know the roll out was by MMA for the discount for KCBS members. They did not present it the way it was supposed to be. As Michelle said it was to be a "benefit" based on the way NEBS and a few other organizations do it. That is the reason we still have contests on the East doing the discount for KCBS members. Those organizers understood the concept.

A lot of research went into the reduction of bonus points for TOY and without all of the facts I do think you are bashing something good. Obviously it is something personal and I really don't know why.

No, nothing personal about it.

Plowboy
12-19-2009, 09:26 AM
[QUOTE=Diva;1117248]

Stephanie,
Just to let you know the roll out was by MMA for the discount for KCBS members. They did not present it the way it was supposed to be. As Michelle said it was to be a "benefit" based on the way NEBS and a few other organizations do it. That is the reason we still have contests on the East doing the discount for KCBS members. Those organizers understood the concept.

A lot of research went into the reduction of bonus points for TOY and without all of the facts I do think you are bashing something good. Obviously it is something personal and I really don't know why.


Linda,

Will there be a disclosure of the research and rational related to the TOY change? After all I've read, I still think it has no real affect.

Yakfishingfool
12-19-2009, 09:42 AM
Instead of entry fee's, why not make "premium" on the winnings. If a competition was going to award 1500 for GC anyway, call that the KCBS GC, the GC for a non KCBS team would be 1250. This doesn't take away from the host of the show as far as lsoing money at entry fee's and it doesn't take away from the GC if a KCBS team wins, but rather, it bespeaks a value to having the KCBS affiliation. The darn GC, non-KCBS team could have joined for 50 bucks and made 250 extra, too bad, maybe next time they will join. I would do this down through all the cash prizes...meaning a discounted win amount for non-KCBS teams. This cost's nothing to the host or to the KCBS, and is easy to solve once scores are in. This would only occur at KCBS sanctioned events of course. Scott

Yakfishingfool
12-19-2009, 11:10 AM
Forgot to add, that at the competition would be a way to collect dues and sign people up to be a KCBS member. "let's see, I think I have a chance of winning, I'm not KCBS, it's a 250 dollar difference, and only 50 bucks to join. I'm joining for the shot at 250" Scott

Candy Sue
12-19-2009, 11:10 AM
Personally, I like the bonus KCBS added money idea. It's worked well for IBCA. A carrot always works better than a stick and the discounted entry for KCBS members was a stick to the organizers. Only way that would work is if KCBS discounted event sanctioning fee based on number of KCBS member teams were competing. This would not be too difficult to implement, but teams would have to be identified by member number rather than names.

The hardest thing with added money though, would be how to determine which contests get the added money. Some events are full with waiting lists so a new team is not going to be able to get in to compete there. Some contests are going away because they can't get enough teams. You don't want to not reward successful contests just because they can't get new teams in the contest, while rewarding contests that aren't successfully attracting teams. I don't have an answer to this. IBCA does it by way of the regional "Pits" but I don't know how the added money contest is chosen from all the contests in that region.

In recruiting new contest cooks, I think it's organizers that do that by putting on local events. I know our local organizer was who first got me to cook a contest and I was hooked after that very first time. KCBS has a great membership recruiting plan with the CBJ program. One way or another there's got to be a way to recruit cooks as members too. I wish we knew how many of those 11,000 teams were members??? Is there a benefit for organizers to be members?

Merl
12-19-2009, 11:28 AM
Great idea, but here is the math.
KCBC charges $35 to be a member.
The Bullsheet cost a little over $20 of membership dues per year.

Sanctioning:
KCBC charges $12.00 per team.
From that KCBS pays for all cost of supplies, shipping and cost.
Did I mention administrative cost of running an office?

KCBS is a bargain, but does not make huge money from contest or teams.

Now someone will ask about the $150.00 fee per rep. Yes KCBS does charge that to the organizer, as well but that sum, is paid in full to the contest rep. And yes, Contest Reps are probably overpaid for a weekend of work for $150.00. (Going to $175.00 in 2010) (just kidding about over paid.)

Just thought the math would help in this discussion.
Merl

Candy Sue
12-19-2009, 12:53 PM
Merl, why would the Bullsheet cost that much? I would think that most of the BS costs would be covered via advertising dollars earned.

ThomEmery
12-19-2009, 01:09 PM
Great idea, but here is the math.
KCBC charges $35 to be a member.
The Bullsheet cost a little over $20 of membership dues per year.

Sanctioning:
KCBC charges $12.00 per team.
From that KCBS pays for all cost of supplies, shipping and cost.
Did I mention administrative cost of running an office?

KCBS is a bargain, but does not make huge money from contest or teams.

Now someone will ask about the $150.00 fee per rep. Yes KCBS does charge that to the organizer, as well but that sum, is paid in full to the contest rep. And yes, Contest Reps are probably overpaid for a weekend of work for $150.00. (Going to $175.00 in 2010) (just kidding about over paid.)

Just thought the math would help in this discussion.
Merl

The BS would seem a poor investment
Move the whole thing online

The Western States Pit will use our 2009 money to pay for year end trophies

QansasjayhawQ
12-19-2009, 07:27 PM
The 'concept' was basically derived from KCBS not being able to charge the extra funds themselves due to their tax status.....correct??? [SNIP]
It is a common misperception that non-profit organization means no-revenues. The bottom line for non-profits is that they return as much of their revenues as possible as benefits for their constituents. Many non-profits do have funds left over at the end of their tax period and they do pay a premium tax rate on those 'excess funds' - so the incentive to return the money in benefits to the members they serve is great.

But the bottom line is that what a non-profit charges (or generates) is not restricted by their taxation status. That may be more restricted by their charter . . . but not their tax status.

Sooooo, since KCBS couldn't charge the funds and DEMAND that any team cooking a KCBS sanctioned contest WITHOUT being a member doesn't pan with the tax man, they decided to 'put it on the organizers'. Personally, the knee jerk reactions are a bit tiresome. How about the Board get off their respective asses and actually do something productive THEMSELVES instead of trying to pass the buck?
It's up to the organization's charters and rules - not the tax man. I agree that the BOD needs to accept their responsibility of growing the organization, but the bottom line of the KCBS charter is to promote BBQ and fun. I think the KCBS has done a good job of at least that.

HoDeDo
12-20-2009, 01:21 PM
Candy - Merl can jump in and give an accurate answer..... but I believe those 11,000 teams are just each contests teams added up.... not 11,000 individual teams. I think if you cull the data, it ends up at about 4700 teams vs. 11,000.

thillin
12-20-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm in Texas and chose to join IBCA. There are a couple of comps a year that offer added money to IBCA members. Usually has a stipulation that you must join by a particular date. But the money is for members. 3rd place can net you more money than first, if first wasn't a member and you are.

tony76248
12-22-2009, 01:06 PM
One of the things that will help these organizations grow is to spread the wealth a bit. They say that if you get a call at your first comp, you are hooked for life. In that I say "have a pro series and rookie series" (like sprint and nationwide) that way you will allow some more of those cooks the opportunity to win. Unfortunately the costs associated with entering a competition are prohibitive to some folks with less means. Therefore those same folks will pick a small handful of events which to compete in each year and even then they may not get the chance to walk.

I mostly cook in IBCA and more often than not they will pay 10-15 places with the GC and RGC not winning any additional money beyond the recognition that comes with the trophy. Therefore you have a lot more winners. Last year was a limited schedule for me but I cooked in 9 comps and actually made enough money in 7 of them to cover entry fees and meat. Normally IBCA comps average about $100 to enter.

I don't believe that this is a fan based hobby so I disagree with a few folks here who would want folks nosing around. I don't mind talking to a few folks but it can become a faucet that will not turn off as in your have no control over the flow.