PDA

View Full Version : TOY Change for 2010


Plowboy
12-15-2009, 07:41 PM
Does the current TOY change voted in for 2010 by the BOD make a significant impact in your opinion? The change is to cap bonus points to 50 instead of 100.

Here is the 2009 TOY standings for top 25 under the current 100 team bonus cap.

1 Pellet Envy
2 Smokey D's
3 ISS
4 Munchin
5 SOW
6 4 Legs
7 Butcher
8 Quau
9 Little Pig Town
10 Fl Skin & Bones
11 Lotta Bull
12 Plowboys
13 Parrothead
14 JP
15 Learn2Q
16 Rhythm
17 3 Eyz
18 Great Grills
19 Smoky Mountain Smokers
20 Cool Smoke
21 Ribs 4 U
22 House of Q
23 KC Can Crew
24 Slap Yo Daddy
25 Lo N Slo

Here is the same list with a 50 team cap applied for bonus points.

1 Pellet Envy
2 Smokey D's
4 Munchin
6 4 Legs
3 ISS
5 SOW
7 Butcher
8 Quau
11 Lotta Bull
14 JP
10 Fl Skin & Bones
16 Rhythm
13 Parrothead
9 Little Pig Town
12 Plowboys
15 Learn2Q
19 Smoky Mountain Smokers
18 Great Grills
17 3 Eyz
23 KC Can Crew
20 Cool Smoke
22 House of Q
24 Slap Yo Daddy
25 Lo N Slo
21 Ribs 4 U

Here are the number of positions they moved.

0 Pellet Envy
0 Smokey D's
1 Munchin
2 4 Legs
-2 ISS
-1 SOW
0 Butcher
0 Quau
2 Lotta Bull
4 JP
-1 Fl Skin & Bones
4 Rhythm
0 Parrothead
-5 Little Pig Town
-3 Plowboys
-1 Learn2Q
2 Smoky Mountain Smokers
0 Great Grills
-2 3 Eyz
3 KC Can Crew
-1 Cool Smoke
0 House of Q
1 Slap Yo Daddy
1 Lo N Slo
-4 Ribs 4 U

Plowboy
12-15-2009, 07:45 PM
Several positions change, but here are the number of positions per grouping that see teams move out an in.

1 of Top 5
2 of Top 10
1 of Top 15
1 of Top 20

watertowerbbq
12-15-2009, 07:52 PM
Since the field didn't change drastically, I'd say that from an outsider's point of view, it didn't really matter. However, if you were one of the teams that fell down the ladder, you might have a different opinion.

It would be a dream to even enter enough contests to be in the running for TOY.

Buster Dog BBQ
12-15-2009, 07:52 PM
What was the point of the rule change in the first place?

Plowboy
12-15-2009, 07:59 PM
Since the field didn't change drastically, I'd say that from an outsider's point of view, it didn't really matter. However, if you were one of the teams that fell down the ladder, you might have a different opinion.

It would be a dream to even enter enough contests to be in the running for TOY.

Unless you are 1st, 5th, 10th, or 20th... I'm not sure it matters.

If the new rules applied to a 2009 and all things were equal, we'd have moved from 12th to 15th. Big fat hairy deal. :roll:

Plowboy
12-15-2009, 08:03 PM
BTW, I'm not trying to start another BOD bitch session. Someone had good reasons for making the change. I'm all for making it more fair for areas with fewer large contests. Does this really affect that? Wanting to hear the opinions of others.

Merl
12-15-2009, 08:14 PM
Number and Size of Contests

Number of Contests Completed288Total Number of Teams Competing11,677 TeamsAverage Number of Teams Per Contest40 TeamsNumber of Contests With 100 or More Teams6Average Number of Teams Per Contest Excluding Contests With 100 or More Teams37 Teams
Food for thought. These numbers and comparisons are interesting.

Number and Size of Contests
Number of Contests Completed
288
Total Number of Teams Competing
11,677 Teams
Average Number of Teams Per Contest
40 Teams
Number of Contests With 100 or More Teams
6
Average Number of Teams Per Contest Excluding Contests With 100 or More Teams
37 Teams



2009 results 100 bonus points
1)
PELLET ENVY (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2926
2)IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2911
3) I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2889
4) MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2821
5) SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2809
6) FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2808
7) BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2766
8) QUAU (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2721
9) LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2708
10) FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2690
11) LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2676
12) PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2661
13) PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2645
14) JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2640
15) LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2636
16) RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2620
17) THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2598
18) GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2569
19) SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2536
20) COOL SMOKE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=COOL%20SMOKE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2509

Using 50 bonus points
1) PELLET ENVY (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2871
2) IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2811
3) MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2768
4) FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2765
5) I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2763
6) SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2751
7) BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2720
8) QUAU (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2703
9) LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2662
10) JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2638
11) FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2635
12) RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2618
13) PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2606
14) LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2596
15) PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2591
16) LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2561
17) SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2518
18) GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2507
19) THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2501
20) KC CAN CREW (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=KC%20CAN%20CREW&StartDate=%7bd%20'2009-01-01'%7d&EndDate=%7bd%20'2009-12-31'%7d) 2445

Just food for thought.
Merl
1)PELLET ENVY (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29262)IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29113)I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28894)MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28215)SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28096)FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28087)BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27668)QUAU (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27219)LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})270810)FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})269011)LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})267612)PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})266113)PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264514)JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264015)LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})263616)RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})262017)THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})259818)GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})256919)SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})253620)COOL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=COOL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})2509
1)PELLET ENVY (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29262)IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29113)I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28894)MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28215)SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28096)FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28087)BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27668)QUAU (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27219)LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})270810)FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})269011)LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})267612)PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})266113)PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264514)JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264015)LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})263616)RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})262017)THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})259818)GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})256919)SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})253620)COOL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=COOL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})25091)PELLET ENVY (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29262)IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29113)I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28894)MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28215)SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28096)FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28087)BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27668)QUAU (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27219)LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})270810)FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})269011)LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})267612)PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})266113)PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264514)JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264015)LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})263616)RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})262017)THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})259818)GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})256919)SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})253620)COOL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=COOL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})25091)PELLET ENVY (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PELLET%20ENVY&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29262)IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=IOWAS%20SMOKEY%20DS%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})29113)I SMELL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=I%20SMELL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28894)MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT%20THE%20H ILTON&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28215)SMOKE ON WHEELS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKE%20ON%20WHEELS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28096)FOUR LEGS UP BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FOUR%20LEGS%20UP%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})28087)BUTCHER BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=BUTCHER%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27668)QUAU (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=QUAU&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})27219)LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LITTLE%20PIG%20TOWN%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})270810)FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=FLORIDA%20SKIN%20AND%20BONES&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})269011)LOTTA BULL BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LOTTA%20BULL%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})267612)PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PORK%20PULLIN%20PLOWBOYS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})266113)PARROTHEAD SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=PARROTHEAD%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264514)JP CUSTOM SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=JP%20CUSTOM%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})264015)LEARN2Q.COM (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=LEARN2Q%2ECOM&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})263616)RHYTHM N QUE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=RHYTHM%20N%20QUE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})262017)THREE EYZ BBQ (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=THREE%20EYZ%20BBQ&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})259818)GREAT GRILLS O FIRE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=GREAT%20GRILLS%20O%20FIRE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})256919)SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=SMOKY%20MOUNTAIN%20SMOKERS&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})253620)COOL SMOKE (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/DIYteamhist.cfm?team=COOL%20SMOKE&StartDate={d '2009-01-01'}&EndDate={d '2009-12-31'})2509

Pickin' Porkers
12-16-2009, 08:39 AM
The biggest problem with the current T.O.Y. point system is that teams doing a large number of contests each year still have a distinct advantage over teams doing fewer contests. This advantage is the ability to have more chances to improve their top 10 scores. I understand that the top 10 scores were only considered starting this year but it did not go far enough. Since I am more familiar with the Pork category I will refer to only the standings there. However, the same logic can be applied to other categories or overall.

For example, in the Pork category, Pellet Envy cooked 30 contests this year and Brew N Bar B Que cooked only 12 with the winner, Little Pig Town cooking 26. Yet, Brew N Brew finished 8th, Pellet Envy 9th and Little Pig Town 1st. Cooking only 12 contests in one year and placing as high as 8th with the number of top 10 finishes they had is an awesome feat! Id love to know how they would have done with 30 contests. This type of performance cannot go unnoticed and yet it does.

Limiting 50 bonus points does nothing to improve the fairness of these contests as has already been mathematically proven. In fact, I think it is even more unfair because teams are not compensated for excellent performance when beating 99 other teams. Limiting any bonus points is like awarding trophies to all kids on a baseball team regardless if they placed first or last. OR, like limiting the score differential in a basketball game.

The ONLY way to be fair to all teams is to continue awarding points as they are currently awarded and THEN calculating the average points with their best top ten contests. The T.O.Y finish would be drastically different in Pork.

Since this is lengthy enough, I will end it here. I will be glad to send a simple Excel Spreadsheet to interested parties showing how the T.O.Y standings would be different but PLEASE make the T.O.Y calculations more fair!

Alexa RnQ
12-16-2009, 09:32 AM
Each argument or proposed change has its pro and con side.

For example, the statement that it's unfair for teams to not be rewarded for cooking large contests. From the stats above, we see that there were 6 contests with 100 or more entrants. That leaves a lot of the country out of the mix, where teams simply don't have access to those large contests without undue hardship in terms of travel, expense, time off. Is that fair?

The small variation under the proposed 50-point cap is of interest. Since the average number of teams per contest (excluding megashows) is 37, should the cutoff be closer to average? Would that make a bigger difference?

The number of contests done is also brought up as a limiting/enhancing factor. Sure, a team that cooks more has more bites at the apple. They also have more opportunities to have a bad cook, or hit a "bad table". I wonder if a larger number of contests done isn't simply an opportunity for statistics and consistency to level things out.

So what is the purpose of ToY, exactly? Is it to reward truly outstanding teams that put it on the line week after week, exposing this sport/hobby to many members of the public? Is it to dilute the concept down to the average joe who goes on three outings a year?

How would that encourage anyone to compete more? If we were to start the next season hot and pull down a couple of GCs, then by that logic we should sit on our butts for the rest of the season to preserve that average. I don't think that serves anybody well.

I think ToY is like test cooks: change one thing, see the result. Change another thing, see the result. If you start changing too many variables at once, how will you know what produced the result you want?

Alexa RnQ
12-16-2009, 10:16 AM
To illustrate averaging from 10 best, here's the top 20 re-sorted by their average:

17. THREE EYZ BBQ 2598 over 13 contests = 199.846
18. GREAT GRILLS O FIRE 2569 over 14 contests = 183.5
20. COOL SMOKE 2509 over 15 contests = 167.2666
12. PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS 2661 over 19 contests = 140.0526
13. PARROTHEAD SMOKERS 2645 over 19 contests = 139.2105
3. I SMELL SMOKE 2889 over 21 contests = 137.5714
5. SMOKE ON WHEELS 2809 over 21 contests = 133.7619
15. LEARN2Q.COM 2636 over 20 contests = 131.8
16. RHYTHM N QUE 2620 over 20 contests = 131.0
2. IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ 2911 over 25 contests = 116.44
7. BUTCHER BBQ 2766 over 25 contests = 110.64
9. LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ 2708 over 26 contests = 104.1538
14. JP CUSTOM SMOKE 2640 over 26 contests = 101.5385
1. PELLET ENVY 2926 over 29 contests = 100.8966
11. LOTTA BULL BBQ 2676 over 27 contests = 99.1111
4. MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON 2821 over 30 contests = 94.0333
6. FOUR LEGS UP BBQ 2808 over 30 contests = 93.6
19. SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS 2536 over 28 contests = 90.5714
10. FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES 2690 over 30 contests = 89.6666
8. QUAU 2721 over 37 contests = 73.5405

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 10:28 AM
If you're not first you're last!!!

Plowboy
12-16-2009, 10:31 AM
As I was digging into this last night, I saw how well Three Eyz did this year. Hats off to them and I'm glad we don't have to battle them in the Midwest.

Ford
12-16-2009, 10:33 AM
Who cares about TOY. Now if somebody like the KCBS puts up $50k for it maybe more will be interested. That's the change I'd like to hear voted on. But that's a budgetary issue not a rules issue.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 10:34 AM
As I was digging into this last night, I saw how well Three Eyz did this year. Hats off to them and I'm glad we don't have to battle them in the Midwest.

You aint lying, we have to battle them at almost every comp. Dan and Dan are great cooks.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
12-16-2009, 10:43 AM
Thanks for tallying that, pretty interesting. Just remember that statics are just that and there are a bunch of ways to look and analyze the data. But I have to admit, that is my favorite so far :-P

Still - Pellet Envy won it, so hats off to them

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 10:59 AM
To illustrate averaging from 10 best, here's the top 20 re-sorted by their average:

17. THREE EYZ BBQ 2598 over 13 contests = 199.846
18. GREAT GRILLS O FIRE 2569 over 14 contests = 183.5
20. COOL SMOKE 2509 over 15 contests = 167.2666
12. PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS 2661 over 19 contests = 140.0526
13. PARROTHEAD SMOKERS 2645 over 19 contests = 139.2105
3. I SMELL SMOKE 2889 over 21 contests = 137.5714
5. SMOKE ON WHEELS 2809 over 21 contests = 133.7619
15. LEARN2Q.COM 2636 over 20 contests = 131.8
16. RHYTHM N QUE 2620 over 20 contests = 131.0
2. IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ 2911 over 25 contests = 116.44
7. BUTCHER BBQ 2766 over 25 contests = 110.64
9. LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ 2708 over 26 contests = 104.1538
14. JP CUSTOM SMOKE 2640 over 26 contests = 101.5385
1. PELLET ENVY 2926 over 29 contests = 100.8966
11. LOTTA BULL BBQ 2676 over 27 contests = 99.1111
4. MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON 2821 over 30 contests = 94.0333
6. FOUR LEGS UP BBQ 2808 over 30 contests = 93.6
19. SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS 2536 over 28 contests = 90.5714
10. FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES 2690 over 30 contests = 89.6666
8. QUAU 2721 over 37 contests = 73.5405

DivaH,
The total scores there are only including their top 10 finishes, so it doesn't include all of the points they earned for the year.

I'd love to know each teams average for the entire year to see how we stack up in comparison.

Alexa RnQ
12-16-2009, 11:15 AM
Bobby, I was playing with numbers in response to Pickin' Porkers' bolded assertion that The ONLY way to be fair to all teams is to continue awarding points as they are currently awarded and THEN calculating the average points with their best top ten contests.

One of you Excel wizards, run them with all the contests!! I want to see what happens! but numbers make me cry

It's interesting to note that in the calc I did, the number of contests is by and large lower at the top, and higher at the bottom -- showing that it does not reward those who compete more.

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 11:19 AM
Oh sorry ...
They'd only get credit for their top 10 but would have to divide that number by the comps they entered? Not sure that's fair. If they need to divide by the comps they competed in, shouldn't they get to include all the points they earned?

Alexa RnQ
12-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Well, upside, downside. Sure, including all would give you the benefit of all points earned -- and using only your top ten contests gives you the ability to live down the weekends where you tanked. The same team could benefit from different systems from season to season, or from one month to the next!

HoDeDo
12-16-2009, 11:35 AM
That and the points for "avg" are not really Average.... right.... a 5th place finish gives you much lower scores than a 1st.... even though the points for that contest might have been decided by 2 points between the first and 5th place team.... So if you were going to use your averaging idea... I would say we have to look at total points not TOY points.... since the toy scoring does not lend itself to averaging....

Alexa RnQ
12-16-2009, 11:51 AM
Too late Andy, I already pecked at the numbers! :mrgreen:
Total points isn't the full story either. Those who compete across different regions see that some areas typically have very high-scoring contests, while some areas typically have contest scores that are much lower.

I'd love to know each teams average for the entire year to see how we stack up in comparison.

If they need to divide by the comps they competed in, shouldn't they get to include all the points they earned?

Here you go:

17. THREE EYZ BBQ 3137 over 13 contests = 241.3077
3. I SMELL SMOKE 4907 over 21 contests = 233.6666
1. PELLET ENVY 6622 over 29 contests = 228.3448
18. GREAT GRILLS O FIRE 3141 over 14 contests = 224.3571
16. RHYTHM N QUE 4334 over 20 contests = 216.7
20. COOL SMOKE 3205 over 15 contests = 213.6666
12. PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS 4039 over 19 contests = 212.5789
13. PARROTHEAD SMOKERS 4033 over 19 contests = 212.2632
4. MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON 6254 over 30 contests = 208.4666
7. BUTCHER BBQ 5168 over 25 contests = 206.72
6. FOUR LEGS UP BBQ 6148 over 30 contests = 204.9333
2. IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ 5122 over 25 contests = 204.88
15. LEARN2Q.COM 4011 over 20 contests = 200.55
11. LOTTA BULL BBQ 5357 over 27 contests = 198.4074
5. SMOKE ON WHEELS 4128 over 21 contests = 196.5714
14. JP CUSTOM SMOKE 5011 over 26 contests = 192.7308
8. QUAU 7106 over 37 contests = 192.0541
9. LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ 4970 over 26 contests = 191.1538
19. SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS 5141 over 28 contests = 183.6071
10. FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES 5161 over 30 contests = 172.0333


Clearly, I should like this system best! :mrgreen:

Plowboy
12-16-2009, 12:22 PM
Any system that puts me above Smoke on Wheels is a good system.

HoDeDo
12-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Any system that puts me above Smoke on Wheels is a good system.

Yea well.... you do need all the help you can get:twisted:

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 12:53 PM
Here you go:

17. THREE EYZ BBQ 3137 over 13 contests = 241.3077
3. I SMELL SMOKE 4907 over 21 contests = 233.6666
1. PELLET ENVY 6622 over 29 contests = 228.3448
18. GREAT GRILLS O FIRE 3141 over 14 contests = 224.3571
16. RHYTHM N QUE 4334 over 20 contests = 216.7
20. COOL SMOKE 3205 over 15 contests = 213.6666
12. PORK PULLIN PLOWBOYS 4039 over 19 contests = 212.5789
13. PARROTHEAD SMOKERS 4033 over 19 contests = 212.2632
4. MUNCHIN HOGS AT THE HILTON 6254 over 30 contests = 208.4666
7. BUTCHER BBQ 5168 over 25 contests = 206.72
6. FOUR LEGS UP BBQ 6148 over 30 contests = 204.9333
2. IOWAS SMOKEY DS BBQ 5122 over 25 contests = 204.88
15. LEARN2Q.COM 4011 over 20 contests = 200.55
11. LOTTA BULL BBQ 5357 over 27 contests = 198.4074
5. SMOKE ON WHEELS 4128 over 21 contests = 196.5714
14. JP CUSTOM SMOKE 5011 over 26 contests = 192.7308
8. QUAU 7106 over 37 contests = 192.0541
9. LITTLE PIG TOWN BBQ 4970 over 26 contests = 191.1538
19. SMOKY MOUNTAIN SMOKERS 5141 over 28 contests = 183.6071
10. FLORIDA SKIN AND BONES 5161 over 30 contests = 172.0333


Clearly, I should like this system best! :mrgreen:

Awesome! Anyone care to put a list together for all the Brethren teams to see how we all stack against each other? :eek:

Can I ask how you determined each teams overall points? Did you go to Paul's site to write down each teams results and then manually figure it out?

Pickin' Porkers
12-16-2009, 01:07 PM
Running the numbers as I proposed for OVERALL T.O.Y creates drastic changes. However, this is NOT an attempt to downplay the successes of the current T.O.Y leaders. They did a GREAT job and should be proud.

Wish I could post the table on here and make it legible but the results would be as follows:

1. I Smell Smoke 137.57 Average Overall T.O.Y. points per contest
2. Smoke on Wheels 133.76
3. Iowa's Smoky D's 126.57
4. Butchers BBQ 110.64
5. Little Pig Town 104.15
6. Pellet Envy 97.53
7. Munchin' Hogs 94.03
8. Four Legs Up 93.60
9. Florida Skin & Bones 89.67
10. Quau 73.54

The advantage of using averages is that consistency is rewarded and teams doing large numbers of contests do not gain an advantage.

The above was calculated by dividing the Top Ten T.O.Y points by the number of contests cooked. That is ISS cooked 21 contests and earned 2889 TOY points. 2889 divided by 21 = 137.57142

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 01:40 PM
Running the numbers as I proposed for OVERALL T.O.Y creates drastic changes. However, this is NOT an attempt to downplay the successes of the current T.O.Y leaders. They did a GREAT job and should be proud.

Wish I could post the table on here and make it legible but the results would be as follows:

1. I Smell Smoke 137.57 Average Overall T.O.Y. points per contest
2. Smoke on Wheels 133.76
3. Iowa's Smoky D's 126.57
4. Butchers BBQ 110.64
5. Little Pig Town 104.15
6. Pellet Envy 97.53
7. Munchin' Hogs 94.03
8. Four Legs Up 93.60
9. Florida Skin & Bones 89.67
10. Quau 73.54

The advantage of using averages is that consistency is rewarded and teams doing large numbers of contests do not gain an advantage.

The above was calculated by dividing the Top Ten T.O.Y points by the number of contests cooked. That is ISS cooked 21 contests and earned 2889 TOY points. 2889 divided by 21 = 137.57142

The 2889 for ISS only includes his points for his top 10 comps. So this formula takes their top 10 finishes and divides by total comps cooked. That would say something for consistency, but would it get teams to stop competing near the end of the year if they liked their spot?

Keep in mind, these are just random thoughts. I don't really have a personal opinion on this - just believe any system change should be looked at from all sides.

drbbq
12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
But wouldn't this system encourage the leading teams to stay home instead of risking a bad day that would bring their average down? I'm against that. IMO being the best means getting out there and cooking.

The biggest problem with the current T.O.Y. point system is that teams doing a large number of contests each year still have a distinct advantage over teams doing fewer contests. This advantage is the ability to have more chances to improve their top 10 scores. I understand that the top 10 scores were only considered starting this year but it did not go far enough. Since I am more familiar with the Pork category I will refer to only the standings there. However, the same logic can be applied to other categories or overall.

For example, in the Pork category, Pellet Envy cooked 30 contests this year and Brew N Bar B Que cooked only 12 with the winner, Little Pig Town cooking 26. Yet, Brew N Brew finished 8th, Pellet Envy 9th and Little Pig Town 1st. Cooking only 12 contests in one year and placing as high as 8th with the number of top 10 finishes they had is an awesome feat! Id love to know how they would have done with 30 contests. This type of performance cannot go unnoticed and yet it does.

Limiting 50 bonus points does nothing to improve the fairness of these contests as has already been mathematically proven. In fact, I think it is even more unfair because teams are not compensated for excellent performance when beating 99 other teams. Limiting any bonus points is like awarding trophies to all kids on a baseball team regardless if they placed first or last. OR, like limiting the score differential in a basketball game.

The ONLY way to be fair to all teams is to continue awarding points as they are currently awarded and THEN calculating the average points with their best top ten contests. The T.O.Y finish would be drastically different in Pork.

Since this is lengthy enough, I will end it here. I will be glad to send a simple Excel Spreadsheet to interested parties showing how the T.O.Y standings would be different but PLEASE make the T.O.Y calculations more fair!

drbbq
12-16-2009, 01:54 PM
It's the same 10 teams, just shuffled a little. Hardly worth giving up the run to the finish that we had this year.

Running the numbers as I proposed for OVERALL T.O.Y creates drastic changes. However, this is NOT an attempt to downplay the successes of the current T.O.Y leaders. They did a GREAT job and should be proud.

Wish I could post the table on here and make it legible but the results would be as follows:

1. I Smell Smoke 137.57 Average Overall T.O.Y. points per contest
2. Smoke on Wheels 133.76
3. Iowa's Smoky D's 126.57
4. Butchers BBQ 110.64
5. Little Pig Town 104.15
6. Pellet Envy 97.53
7. Munchin' Hogs 94.03
8. Four Legs Up 93.60
9. Florida Skin & Bones 89.67
10. Quau 73.54

The advantage of using averages is that consistency is rewarded and teams doing large numbers of contests do not gain an advantage.

The above was calculated by dividing the Top Ten T.O.Y points by the number of contests cooked. That is ISS cooked 21 contests and earned 2889 TOY points. 2889 divided by 21 = 137.57142

monty3777
12-16-2009, 01:57 PM
But wouldn't this system encourage the leading teams to stay home instead of risking a bad day that would bring their average down? I'm against that. IMO being the best means getting out there and cooking.

I kinda agree. What seperates teams that cook 30 contests from a team that cooks 6 is commitment - which is worth a lot. Not saying that a system should reward mediocre teams for competing every week - but I don't think the current system does that. Seems to me it weeds the lesser teams out, at least it does from the top positions.

Perhaps that is what seperates the pros from the amateurs. No contest that I have entered makes such a designation - so I can compete along side the pros. But what Makes Johnny Trigg a pro and me an amateur is not the results of the contest in Waterloo, Ia. Rather, its the fact that he is much more committed to the process than I am - and he wins consistantly over the long haul.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 02:07 PM
I like the total points divided by the number of contests. There would need to be a minimum number of comps. This would show the most consistant cooking team. Anybody that has basic knowledge can cook 40 comps a year and have 10 good ones and end up in the top 25 with the current system. The top teams this year deserved it, but there would be a lot different outcomes if they through every comp you did into this. It would show who had their A-game on every comp.

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 02:10 PM
Hey, with that formula, Boondoggle's 157.00 average is looking sweet!
We earned 1570 points in 9 comps for a 174.44 avg, but we'd need 10 comps. Thus taking a 0 for the 10th and lowering our average to 157.00.

Me typing that made me just realize a team cooking only 10 comps would have an advantage over a team cooking over 10 as they wouldn't lower their average. The more comps a team would do, the more their score would go down simply cause they are dividing a similar number by a larger number.

for instance, say a team got 3rd place with 50 team in each they did, that's 2500 points for the season. At 10 comps, thats a 250 point average, 11 comps that's a 227, 12 comps - 208.33, 18 comps 138.88. It's penalizing even for doing well.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 02:17 PM
where do you get your numbers from?
The year end numbers?

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 02:24 PM
me?

http://www.kcbs.us/rankings.php

Here’s how it works:
Every team at a contest will receive points, even the last place team. Additionally, every team participating in a contest will be awarded bonus points based on the number of teams that compete at an event, up to a maximum of 100. There are no double and triple points, only the bonus points based on the number teams competing at each event. While teams will still be rewarded for doing well in large contests, this system helps to bridge the gap between the smaller and larger events, rewarding teams for their consistency on the competition circuit regardless of event size.
Finally, after all the event number crunching is performed, teams are then ranked by adding up their best point totals from 10 events. This will be done in each category, as well as the overall category.
The following is a breakdown of the points awarded to each team at each event based on their placement:
1st---250
2nd---225
3rd---200
4th---175
5th---150
6th---140
7th---130
8th---120
9th---110
10th--100
11th--95
12th--90
13th--85
14th--80
15th--75
16th--70
17th--65
18th--60
19th--50
20th--45
21st--40
22nd--35
23rd--30
24th and down---25
So, using this point system, and the number of teams at any particular event, a team’s score can be calculated based on its performance. For example, the third place overall finisher at a 47-team event would get 200 placement points and 47 bonus points for the number of teams at the event for a total of 247 points. Likewise, the last place team at the same event would receive 72 total points (25 + 47).

ique
12-16-2009, 02:24 PM
for instance, say a team got 3rd place with 50 team in each they did, that's 2500 points for the season. At 10 comps, thats a 250 point average, 11 comps that's a 227, 12 comps - 208.33, 18 comps 138.88. It's penalizing even for doing well.

Yes, the only way the averaging works is if you divide ALL points by ALL contests cooked. I think "winning %" should be an element of the Team of the Year. Winning 8 contests of 12 cooked is a lot more impressive than 8 contests of 30 cooked and should be rewarded.

Scottie
12-16-2009, 02:25 PM
But wouldn't this system encourage the leading teams to stay home instead of risking a bad day that would bring their average down? I'm against that. IMO being the best means getting out there and cooking.


I'm with you Ray. Do we really want a team of the year that only cooks 5 contests? I am also against having Divisions in the KCBS. If you want individual accolades, have them at the contest you cook at. Don't expect national recognition.

ique
12-16-2009, 02:27 PM
I'm with you Ray. Do we really want a team of the year that only cooks 5 contests? I am also against having Divisions in the KCBS. If you want individual accolades, have them at the contest you cook at. Don't expect national recognition.

I agree with no Divisions. And after not liking the idea originally have come around on expanding from 5 to 10. I would still like to see teams get bonus points for having a high winning %.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Yes, the only way the averaging works is if you divide ALL points by ALL contests cooked. I think "winning %" should be an element of the Team of the Year. Winning 8 contests of 12 cooked is a lot more impressive than 8 contests of 30 cooked and should be rewarded.

I am with you 100% on this.

KC_Bobby
12-16-2009, 02:31 PM
Scottie,
I think it would be fun to have a Rookie Team of the Year, but that would open an entire new can of worms. Define rookie and what if they cooked on a different team previously. Thus, trash that idea too.

ique
12-16-2009, 02:36 PM
Scottie,
I think it would be fun to have a Rookie Team of the Year, but that would open an entire new can of worms. Define rookie and what if they cooked on a different team previously. Thus, trash that idea too.


We have it in NEBS and I guess there is a bit of an honor system about it. Does a non-rookie really want to win rookie team of the year?

Scottie
12-16-2009, 02:46 PM
Remember... If money is involved, the scum starts to come out... That is my main reason for not having separatate divisions or recognize "rookies"...

then again. I don't think a guy that comes over from playing baseball in Japan for 15 years, should be eligible for winning rookie of the year either... In baseball of course...

EarlyBird
12-16-2009, 02:48 PM
What if the bonus points were detemined by the number of teams you beat at that contest. So if there were 43 teams and you came in GC you'd get the full 43. Reserve would get 42, Third 41and so on down. That way you don't get the full 43 for just showing up.

LindaM
12-16-2009, 03:13 PM
Each argument or proposed change has its pro and con side.

For example, the statement that it's unfair for teams to not be rewarded for cooking large contests. From the stats above, we see that there were 6 contests with 100 or more entrants. That leaves a lot of the country out of the mix, where teams simply don't have access to those large contests without undue hardship in terms of travel, expense, time off. Is that fair?

The small variation under the proposed 50-point cap is of interest. Since the average number of teams per contest (excluding megashows) is 37, should the cutoff be closer to average? Would that make a bigger difference?

The number of contests done is also brought up as a limiting/enhancing factor. Sure, a team that cooks more has more bites at the apple. They also have more opportunities to have a bad cook, or hit a "bad table". I wonder if a larger number of contests done isn't simply an opportunity for statistics and consistency to level things out.

So what is the purpose of ToY, exactly? Is it to reward truly outstanding teams that put it on the line week after week, exposing this sport/hobby to many members of the public? Is it to dilute the concept down to the average joe who goes on three outings a year?

How would that encourage anyone to compete more? If we were to start the next season hot and pull down a couple of GCs, then by that logic we should sit on our butts for the rest of the season to preserve that average. I don't think that serves anybody well.

I think ToY is like test cooks: change one thing, see the result. Change another thing, see the result. If you start changing too many variables at once, how will you know what produced the result you want?

Thank you for your understanding. The BOD approved this based on my presentation. Along with that went, we will review additional changes for 2011 but want to make sure we have completed enough research so we don't jump into something the cooks will not be happy with. This change would make very little difference in the top 20, however, it will change some of the standings for teams finishing further down. The results of the poll is the driving force behind the change. Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.

Jacked UP BBQ
12-16-2009, 03:22 PM
We have it in NEBS and I guess there is a bit of an honor system about it. Does a non-rookie really want to win rookie team of the year?


Maybe if they saw the knife and trophy!!!!!!!!:-D

Pickin' Porkers
12-16-2009, 03:28 PM
Interesting responses so far and I hope they keep coming. It DOES need to be explored from all angles instead of favoring the current system because no one wants to upset the apple cart.

What I have proposed includes the current system of counting the top ten contests and using the current points applied to each finish. Because someone cooks 35 contests versus another teams 12..... I do not view as a commitment but rather, someone that has sponsorship or personal wealth or business motives. The commitment level is certainly there with our paltry sum of 16 KCBS contests but certainly cannot afford to travel much further than we do without winning a few coins in the process which we have been able to do.

It was suggested that teams would stay home in order to keep a certain standing but remember, the more contest you do....the more chances you have to improve the top ten scores. While that may not seem too fair....there just is a point where you cannot erase all advantages but averaging sure makes it a more level playing field.

Fairness in determining WHO is the best for the year should be based solely on performance...nothing else...not how many times they cook...not how many times they get media coverage....and certainly not those that ring their own bell a lot. Performance can be measured many ways depending on ones motives such as personal gain or an effort to really define performance milestones.

It is imperative for the sake of fairness to all teams that whatever changes are made they are made to rid ourselves of this notion and this fact.....that teams who cook many more contests have an advantage.

HoDeDo
12-16-2009, 03:29 PM
We have it in NEBS and I guess there is a bit of an honor system about it. Does a non-rookie really want to win rookie team of the year?

Maybe if they saw the knife and trophy!!!!!!!!:-D

Rookie team of the year, hear I come!!! :twisted:

drbbq
12-16-2009, 03:41 PM
There used to be a KCBS rookie of the year award. I don't know why it disappeared.

Scottie
12-16-2009, 03:55 PM
Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.


Linda, not that I am disagreeing, but this poll was buried in the KCBS website. The only way to find it was doing a search of the website. If you did not see it initially on the front page of the website, it was buried in the website. So is that really the way to get responses back? Is that really the way that KCBS wants to "judge" what the cooks feel on an issue? Give us cooks a little bit of credit and maybe say that the poll was not set-up in a proper manner and that is why you only got 249 responses. Not say that only "249 cooks elected to do so"...

Scottie Johnson
CBJ # 2714
KCBS # 7644

drbbq
12-16-2009, 04:23 PM
Email notifications are for important stuff like selling wacky T-shirts. Here's a new suggestion for them: I'm spreading the sauce around like I'm Tiger!

Diva
12-16-2009, 08:06 PM
Email notifications are for important stuff like selling wacky T-shirts. Here's a new suggestion for them: I'm spreading the sauce around like I'm Tiger!

No $hit

Sledneck
12-16-2009, 08:17 PM
Remember... If money is involved, the scum starts to come out... That is my main reason for not having separatate divisions or recognize "rookies"...

then again. I don't think a guy that comes over from playing baseball in Japan for 15 years, should be eligible for winning rookie of the year either... In baseball of course...I heard a rumor that the Japanese were taking over comp BBQ. All that flying knife stuff would be kind of cool during turn ins wouldnt it?:biggrin:

Plowboy
12-16-2009, 11:01 PM
I heard a rumor that the Japanese were taking over comp BBQ. All that flying knife stuff would be kind of cool during turn ins wouldnt it?:biggrin:

I can just see Myron Mixon dicing pork table side during an MBN comp and tossing it to his guest judge to catch in his mouth. That's some high class flare.

Plowboy
12-16-2009, 11:10 PM
Thank you for your understanding. The BOD approved this based on my presentation. Along with that went, we will review additional changes for 2011 but want to make sure we have completed enough research so we don't jump into something the cooks will not be happy with. This change would make very little difference in the top 20, however, it will change some of the standings for teams finishing further down. The results of the poll is the driving force behind the change. Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.

Linda,

Are you REALLY saying that the change for TEAM OF THE YEAR was made for teams lower in the rankings? I don't really mean to be a snob here, but is it really important for the 2367th place team to be 2153rd? The top 5 are the only ones at the end of the season who really have a shot at Team of the Year. Why change the rules just to shuffle a few teams around in the top 10?

Is that how we are running KCBS now... through polls? The answer I would have liked was more like, "after some thoughtful statistical analysis based on several calculation models, we made the following decision."

I'll stand behind my original statement that this change is not significant. That is a mathematical fact.

Todd

Plowboy
12-16-2009, 11:15 PM
I like the total points divided by the number of contests. There would need to be a minimum number of comps. This would show the most consistant cooking team. Anybody that has basic knowledge can cook 40 comps a year and have 10 good ones and end up in the top 25 with the current system. The top teams this year deserved it, but there would be a lot different outcomes if they through every comp you did into this. It would show who had their A-game on every comp.

The flip side is that it discourages teams from competing much beyond the minimum. If you can come out hot and hit your first 10 hard... sit back and coast the rest of the season. Cooking a contest could bring your average down. Why risk it? It totally changes the game. The leader would stay home until they get passed up and get forced to come out and compete.

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 07:51 AM
The flip side is that it discourages teams from competing much beyond the minimum. If you can come out hot and hit your first 10 hard... sit back and coast the rest of the season. Cooking a contest could bring your average down. Why risk it? It totally changes the game. The leader would stay home until they get passed up and get forced to come out and compete.

I have to agree... It penalizes you for a) cooking more (possibly diluting your average) b) trying new venues. If you are going to get dinged possibly, you may not go try cooking someplace new.

For example... NY loved my food, but Oklahoma not so much. I would LOVE to go back and cook in both places. Ponca City was a FUN contest this year.... but if we were using this avg. system, I would have never gone down there and risked hurting my average... I think we need to do things that promote more cooking, not less. I am not professing to know what the points system should be... I am merely saying that right now, I don't think it is in too bad shape, and the changes made to lower the bonus points do not really effect the top 10 - and that is the only group of folks that are actively doing anything with TOY. I would say, even if you are 16th, you are not going to jet across the country to cook one more event to move into 11th. right?

Honestly, I don't care how many events you have cooked in a year .... 10 or 30... winning 5 of those a year (or 8, etc) is a feat. Having been the king of RGC for a couple years, and having lots of hit or miss contests for years... I take my hat off to Rod, Darren, Steve, Kelly, Rob, you name it.... anyone that can win, consistently and do well all over... that is something special. And many of these guys, do it year over year. That is what I am striving for. In 5 years, I want to still be able to win a comp or two. :-P I want to see, who is cook of the decade? :icon_cool 2000-2010.

Diva
12-17-2009, 09:22 AM
What this new ruling has "accomplished": screwing organizers of possibly getting more teams. If contests have been sitting around 50 teams, whats the advantage of going to their contest now? You're not going to get more points out of the deal.

To have this decision made based on a poll that 200 some odd people took is RIDICULOUS!

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 11:05 AM
I take my hat off to Rod, Darren, Steve, Kelly, Rob, you name it.... anyone that can win, consistently and do well all over... that is something special.

Thanks, buddy.:cool:

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 11:21 AM
housekeeping.

"I just can't quit you!"

Plowboy
12-17-2009, 11:21 AM
What this new ruling has "accomplished": screwing organizers of possibly getting more teams. If contests have been sitting around 50 teams, whats the advantage of going to their contest now? You're not going to get more points out of the deal.

To have this decision made based on a poll that 200 some odd people took is RIDICULOUS!

How do you know that they are odd?

Alexa RnQ
12-17-2009, 12:19 PM
How do you know that they are odd?
Pssst. Todd. Take a look around you.

Diva
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
How do you know that they are odd?

Helloooooo :roll:

HoDeDo
12-17-2009, 06:16 PM
Thanks, buddy.:cool:

We share comp teams, didnt want to seem self-serving... BUT yes Todd, you are the MAN :-P

Red Valley BBQ
12-17-2009, 09:20 PM
Why not use an average of a number of overall scores? EX: an average of the top 7 overall scores from individual competitions. This would create a ranking system based solely on perfomance as opposed a point system which awards bonus points based on the number of teams at any given comp. If a team scores consistently in the 660-670 range, shouldn't the consistent high scores put them in the running for team of the year even if they only cook in 10 contests with 20 to 30 teams? It doesn't seem fair that a team could win TotY when they score in the 630-640 range, but compete against 50 or 60 teams. By basing the rankings on overall score totals, you are keeping things even across the board, for every team, regardless of how many teams they compete against. The better the barbeque, the better the score, the higher the average.

crd26a
12-18-2009, 02:07 PM
The key component is trying to figure out how to bring parity and compare tournaments to one another, as some tournament scores are high and some are low. The easiest way I can see for it to work is to reset the scores after completion. Let me explain.

For category awards, if the top 4 scores were 178.5, 178.0, 177.5 and 177.0, reset them with the top score moving to 180 for TOY considerations only, as this was the "perfect" score fo the event. Results for that category for category TOY consideraitons would then be

180, 179.5, 179, 178.5 etc.

This would allow a comparison across tournaments as to how you placed versus the other teams, allowing each first place to earn 180 towards their point chase for the category at each event with others being lowered based upon how close they were.

For Overall TOY, you could then modify this to be either out of the 720, or for each event, a summary addition of your total places. The addition could make it the most interesting, as it could reward the teams that cook the most consistent across all four categories with the best shot on an average consideration. Win 4 tournaments but tank in chicken at others? Well the team that got 4 Reserves and 6 other top 5's "could" beat on them on an average across their top 10's.

This could "potentially" really bring in some parity to the individual tournaments as it helps rebaseline scores and allows for teams that compete in big tournaments with narrow margins to not be as penalized or even rewarded for finishing. Not a perfect solution, but imagine the "chase" if we were talking narrow differences and how a placing in Chicken on one week could affect the final standings.