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Lake Dogs
12-09-2009, 01:00 PM
SmokinOkie wanted this, so lets see how it goes. If you have pics of
that Q that came across the table that was so horrendous that it merits
a post, please do so. Otherwise, tell us what came across the table
that was so unbelievable that you couldn't believe someone actually
presented that entry at a cooking contest.

Lake Dogs
12-09-2009, 01:11 PM
I'll start, MIM contest 2007, SweetWater Festival in Milledgeville, GA. Blind Ribs.

I must admit, blind ribs is my favorite IF the ribs are good. Was at a table with 5
entries, and when we opened the boxes one stood out, and I mean STOOD OUT.

It was obviously burned, but not so horrendous that I didn't actually pick up a piece.
Being as stoic as I could, I smelled it. WOW. This was some really bad Q. There
wasn't even a hint of overcooked seasoning, just plain old burned meat, with a nice
compliment of lighter fluid to accent the smell. I tugged and tugged at the bone(s)
to get it to pull apart. Wasn't going to happen. Ok, so much for tenderness and
smell. I should've stopped there and just given the 7 (MIM scoring). Nope, I'm an
honorable judge and do my damnedest to get a bite. I gnawed at it and finally was
able to get a small chunck of burned something to come off of the bone. Two chomps
into this gristle and I HAD to spit it out. I quickly, however as subtly as I could,
brought my napkin to my mouth and disposed of it. It was then, as I was trying to
place the napkin back in my lap without being noticed that I looked up. All of the
other judges were looking at me, wide eyed... This was a genuine spitter. Noone else
actually put it in their mouth. They asked me afterwards, knowing I have dogs that
love bones, if I wanted the remainder of that for my dogs. Nope. I answered "I
wouldn't do that to my dogs".

I came away wondering what and why some people dont use any reason when putting
food in a turn-in box. If, for example, I'd had a BBQ at home and made this, whether
I had company over or not, it would've gone straight to the trash can and a phone
call made for pizza. WHY would you put that in a turn-in box?!?!?!!???? Apparently
there is no reasoning...

I've had some very tough ribs (undercooked) and some burned, but nothing in this
league.

Dustaway
12-09-2009, 01:18 PM
I thought you were going to say that you had to like your dogs ARSE to get the taste out of you MOUTH!!!

chambersuac
12-09-2009, 01:20 PM
the hazards of being a judge...glad you lived through it :)

SmokinOkie
12-09-2009, 01:24 PM
Thanks for posting, don't have any photos, just boxes that I've judged.

Some turn-ins.

1) Box of ribs was upside down. All we saw was the lettuce. the number was on top for us to see.

2) A rack of ribs looking perfect, but they were bone side up AND they were all one rack (not sliced)

3) Got one pork box with the bone separated from the meat and one large chunk of pork

4) Got a brisket box FULL of chopped brisket only, but it was so burnt, we couldn't confirm what it was (and it actually looked like something a animal would leave

Have seen various pieces of foil, tape, toothpicks still connected/holding meat.

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 01:26 PM
You have no choice but to enter the ribs at a comp, can't order pizza and put it in the box...

Lake Dogs
12-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Thanks for posting, don't have any photos, just boxes that I've judged.

Some turn-ins.

1) Box of ribs was upside down. All we saw was the lettuce. the number was on top for us to see.

2) A rack of ribs looking perfect, but they were bone side up AND they were all one rack (not sliced)

3) Got one pork box with the bone separated from the meat and one large chunk of pork

4) Got a brisket box FULL of chopped brisket only, but it was so burnt, we couldn't confirm what it was (and it actually looked like something a animal would leave

Have seen various pieces of foil, tape, toothpicks still connected/holding meat.


Tape?!? Wow.

<--- thinks to himself, at time to put ribs in box, hears:

Honey, these ribs are falling apart. Fetch me the duct tape, will 'ya?!!!


Twice I've turned in ribs that perhaps needed tape to keep them from
falling apart. Luckily I'd already tasted them, and ends up they scored
middle-of-the-pack both times, one scored well enough to allow me to
get RGC. So, yes, they were turned in sans duct tape.... Tape, really?

Skip
12-09-2009, 01:47 PM
3) Got one pork box with the bone separated from the meat and one large chunk of pork



Excellent someone who actually adhered to the rule as its written.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Was it cooked? Not parted? Heck thats 9's across the board from me. Please tell me that the piece you received looked like it could've been 5 lbs. before cooking.

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
Excellent someone who actually adhered to the rule as its written.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Was it cooked? Not parted? Heck thats 9's across the board from me. Please tell me that the piece you received looked like it could've been 5 lbs. before cooking.


Easy...

Lake Dogs
12-09-2009, 01:52 PM
You have no choice but to enter the ribs at a comp, can't order pizza and put it in the box...

Honestly, whether it's personal pride and you just dont turn that in, or
the concern for the health of your fellow citizen, this shouldn't make it
even in a box to be turned in. Turn in an empty box if you had to. Me,
scoring 0 in KCBS (this was MIM though), you can only be DAL (Dead Ass
Last), and these were definitely DAL caliber, to the tune of DAL of all
contests in the region for an entire year DAL. I would've hoped they'd
had enough personal pride to just throw those away. Honestly, we've
all made grill mistakes here and there.

Personal Experience with thowing away $100 in meat:

We had a next-day party after my 2nd wedding a few years back. I had
many requests for my competition pulled pork that has done pretty well
'round these parts. Long story, one I will NOT share, but those pork
butts and 2 nice fresh hams all went into the garbage, and I mean ALL
of them... Napping, at the wrong time, when using a stick burner, ala.
that doofus on the BBQ PitMasters show, can be disasterous!!!! Recall,
this is the night after my wedding... Oh well, the hamburgers were
very good.... :-)

monty3777
12-09-2009, 01:53 PM
Excellent someone who actually adhered to the rule as its written.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Was it cooked? Not parted? Heck thats 9's across the board from me. Please tell me that the piece you received looked like it could've been 5 lbs. before cooking.


Now that's funny!

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 01:56 PM
Excellent someone who actually adhered to the rule as its written.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Was it cooked? Not parted? Heck thats 9's across the board from me. Please tell me that the piece you received looked like it could've been 5 lbs. before cooking.

Sorry bud... Automatic DQ... Only one serving...

Skip
12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
Easy...


Sorry I was just so excited to hear that someone had actually followed the rule to the letter. I had always wondered if it was possible. I raised this question once and no one was able to say it was possible. Now, with this info, we know its at least feasible.

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
Honestly, whether it's personal pride and you just dont turn that in, or
the concern for the health of your fellow citizen, this shouldn't make it
even in a box to be turned in. Turn in an empty box if you had to. Me,
scoring 0 in KCBS (this was MIM though), you can only be DAL (Dead Ass
Last), and these were definitely DAL caliber, to the tune of DAL of all
contests in the region for an entire year DAL. I would've hoped they'd
had enough personal pride to just throw those away. Honestly, we've
all made grill mistakes here and there.

Personal Experience with thowing away $100 in meat:

We had a next-day party after my 2nd wedding a few years back. I had
many requests for my competition pulled pork that has done pretty well
'round these parts. Long story, one I will NOT share, but those pork
butts and 2 nice fresh hams all went into the garbage, and I mean ALL
of them... Napping, at the wrong time, when using a stick burner, ala.
that doofus on the BBQ PitMasters show, can be disasterous!!!! Recall,
this is the night after my wedding... Oh well, the hamburgers were
very good.... :-)


I hear ya, and I think most would not turn in something that bad. Some don't have a clue when it comes to cooking in general, let alone BBQ. Like this Paul guy, no self respecting "superstar" chef would turn in that crap, period. This guy is supposed to be some sort of grill master, yet he burner the heck out of that poor chicken. I know many chefs that can't BBQ a bit, but they can sure grill some GREAT chicken.

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Honestly, whether it's personal pride and you just dont turn that in, or
the concern for the health of your fellow citizen, this shouldn't make it
even in a box to be turned in. Turn in an empty box if you had to. Me,
scoring 0 in KCBS (this was MIM though), you can only be DAL (Dead Ass
Last), and these were definitely DAL caliber, to the tune of DAL of all
contests in the region for an entire year DAL. I would've hoped they'd
had enough personal pride to just throw those away. Honestly, we've
all made grill mistakes here and there.

Personal Experience with thowing away $100 in meat:

We had a next-day party after my 2nd wedding a few years back. I had
many requests for my competition pulled pork that has done pretty well
'round these parts. Long story, one I will NOT share, but those pork
butts and 2 nice fresh hams all went into the garbage, and I mean ALL
of them... Napping, at the wrong time, when using a stick burner, ala.
that doofus on the BBQ PitMasters show, can be disasterous!!!! Recall,
this is the night after my wedding... Oh well, the hamburgers were
very good.... :-)
At least you had a better excuse than the doofus....

Skip
12-09-2009, 02:00 PM
Sorry bud... Automatic DQ... Only one serving...

But then most boxes would be DQ'd since they put a mound of pork in the center. Not distinguishable portions just a mound and no DQ. Is that really any different?

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 02:00 PM
Sorry I was just so excited to hear that someone had actually followed the rule to the letter. I had always wondered if it was possible. I raised this question once and no one was able to say it was possible. Now, with this info, we know its at least feasible.

More evidence for the case, I see you doing your homework :-P.

Skip
12-09-2009, 02:02 PM
More evidence for the case, I see you doing your homework :-P.


Shhhh you'll blow my cover. I'm incognito. :icon_cool:icon_cool:icon_cool

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 02:03 PM
Shhhh you'll blow my cover. I'm incognito. :icon_cool:icon_cool:icon_cool
:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 02:03 PM
Not to hijack but....

I hear ya, and I think most would not turn in something that bad. Some don't have a clue when it comes to cooking in general, let alone BBQ. Like this Paul guy, no self respecting "superstar" chef would turn in that crap, period. This guy is supposed to be some sort of grill master, yet he burner the heck out of that poor chicken. I know many chefs that can't BBQ a bit, but they can sure grill some GREAT chicken.

That was his problem... He's a Grill Master when what he needed was a Pit Master...

(OK, side note... When dip stick was about to start his drive he introduced his wife and friend who were there to 'help him'... Some help, they didn't know how to load up the cooker???)

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Not to hijack but....



That was his problem... He's a Grill Master when what he needed was a Pit Master...

(OK, side note... When dip stick was about to start his drive he introduced his wife and friend who were there to 'help him'... Some help, they didn't know how to load up the cooker???)

You aren't kidding, but any chef worth anything should be able to grill some chicken (I think he was direct cooking it).

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 02:19 PM
But then most boxes would be DQ'd since they put a mound of pork in the center. Not distinguishable portions just a mound and no DQ. Is that really any different?

Shhhh you'll blow my cover. I'm incognito. :icon_cool:icon_cool:icon_cool
Sorry Skip, I know it's you (and I'm going to tell Julie on you!!!)...

5) A score of one (1) is a disqualification and requires
approval by a Contest Rep. Grounds for disqualification:
All judges will give a one (1) in Appearance for
unapproved garnish, pooled sauce or less than 6 samples
of meat. All judges will give a one (1) in all criteria for
sculptured meat, a marked turn-in container, foreign
object in the container, incorrect meat. All judges not
receiving a sample will give a one (1) in all criteria.

Actually a 'pile' of pulled pork would be a DQ as well if it was all stuck together and gravity didn't allow it to pull apart.

Based on the CBJ class that I took, if two pieces of brisket are not sliced completly through they should be concidered as one and if there is not enough in the box for each judge to have some it's a DQ. The same holds true for ribs to the point where the BOD stated that there must be 'at least 6 disernable servings (cut ribs)'. Now if you take this forward to your single chunk of meat I feel it would be DQ'd based on the following:

1) While there may be enough meat you can not assume that it is cut and therefore only a single serving where with a pile of pulled pork you can see that there are more than 6 servings. Remember, the BOD did not define the size of a serving.

2) Once the first judge picked up his/her portion (remember no shaking now) there would not be anything left for the other judges...

Nice try 'Skippy', but it didn't work... Now I have to call Julie (and you are in SOOOOOO much trouble!!!!)

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 02:22 PM
You aren't kidding, but any chef worth anything should be able to grill some chicken (I think he was direct cooking it).
While I agree that he should have got his head out of his butt, I disagree with the 'direct cooking' of the chicken... It looked like it had a terminal case of smoke... What makes it worse is that it was his cooker (remember Dave's got the flat) and he should have known better....

BBQ Bandit
12-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Three separate events this year...

A. 1/2 chicken - one piece,
B. brisket must have been cooked to medium rare
(tough as leather and did not pull apart at all)
C. 1/2 rack rib - one piece

Skip
12-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Sorry Skip, I know it's you (and I'm going to tell Julie on you!!!)...

5) A score of one (1) is a disqualification and requires
approval by a Contest Rep. Grounds for disqualification:
All judges will give a one (1) in Appearance for
unapproved garnish, pooled sauce or less than 6 samples
of meat. All judges will give a one (1) in all criteria for
sculptured meat, a marked turn-in container, foreign
object in the container, incorrect meat. All judges not
receiving a sample will give a one (1) in all criteria.

Actually a 'pile' of pulled pork would be a DQ as well if it was all stuck together and gravity didn't allow it to pull apart.

Based on the CBJ class that I took, if two pieces of brisket are not sliced completly through they should be concidered as one and if there is not enough in the box for each judge to have some it's a DQ. The same holds true for ribs to the point where the BOD stated that there must be 'at least 6 disernable servings (cut ribs)'. Now if you take this forward to your single chunk of meat I feel it would be DQ'd based on the following:

1) While there may be enough meat you can not assume that it is cut and therefore only a single serving where with a pile of pulled pork you can see that there are more than 6 servings. Remember, the BOD did not define the size of a serving.

2) Once the first judge picked up his/her portion (remember no shaking now) there would not be anything left for the other judges...

Nice try 'Skippy', but it didn't work... Now I have to call Julie (and you are in SOOOOOO much trouble!!!!)

I had always thought the same thing Jeff. I figured a pile of pork was in fact a single serving and would be considered a DQ but unless you can remove that whole pile of meat you can't consider it one piece. Just as a rib that is stuck falls back to the box as you pick it up would not be a DQ. Although very close:eek::eek::eek:.
So the mound of pulled pork is a viable entry. Heck they give you forks for people to pick up their portion. With that being said a whole butt or picnic skillfully placed in the box would never stay together in one piece as people tried to remove it. With all the muscle strands you could claim distinguishable portions and with a little crush you could break it enough internally that it would not be parted but would be able to be disassembled. As long as there was a hunk left when the last person chose it would be legal.
Now we already know that there is a lot of interpretation among reps from different regions. So it could be that those you are accustom to may not allow, or better stated would agree to a DQ if it was a single mound. Where as those I know would not.
Please note I have been wrong about the reps before. lol

goodsmokebbq
12-09-2009, 03:17 PM
While I agree that he should have got his head out of his butt, I disagree with the 'direct cooking' of the chicken... It looked like it had a terminal case of smoke... What makes it worse is that it was his cooker (remember Dave's got the flat) and he should have known better....

terminal is right... Got to give you judges out there credit for going through boxes like that.

ique
12-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Holy crap Skip are you arguing Pork rules again? I'm shocked

Divemaster
12-09-2009, 03:41 PM
Skip,

I'm sure that this whole discussion would be considered a MAJOR hijacking of this thread. It was in good nature when we started it, but now I'm getting the feeling that it's gone to far.

I'll PM you with my feelings about your post or we can start another thread to complete our discussion.

I apologize to Lake Dogs for the disruption.

Buster Dog BBQ
12-09-2009, 04:14 PM
If the pile of pork is pulled then it's legal as long as they don't sculpt it. If it is pulled and piled it should be a legal entry.

As far as entering those ribs. I suppose 1 point is better than 0.

Skip
12-09-2009, 04:49 PM
Holy crap Skip are you arguing Pork rules again? I'm shocked

Nah not arguing just having fun with this. It was pretty funny to hear that someone had put a whole portion of a butt in a box. Very similar to the argument I raised about the pork rule

Skip,

I'm sure that this whole discussion would be considered a MAJOR hijacking of this thread. It was in good nature when we started it, but now I'm getting the feeling that it's gone to far.

I'll PM you with my feelings about your post or we can start another thread to complete our discussion.

I apologize to Lake Dogs for the disruption.

Yeah didn't mean to hijack the thread at all. I'm sorry if you felt the good natured air about the conversation changed. I was still having fun and wasn't taking any of it too serious. I'd like to hear your response to it all. Either way would work. Its all good Jeff. :lol:

Sorry for the hijack Lake Dog. I didn't mean to steer your thread in the wrong direction. :lol:

Chipper
12-09-2009, 06:27 PM
Three separate events this year...

A. 1/2 chicken - one piece,
B. brisket must have been cooked to medium rare
(tough as leather and did not pull apart at all)
C. 1/2 rack rib - one piece

If that chicken was in Shrewsbury, I know the guy who hadn't a clue.

Divemaster
12-10-2009, 08:35 AM
Yeah didn't mean to hijack the thread at all. I'm sorry if you felt the good natured air about the conversation changed. I was still having fun and wasn't taking any of it too serious. I'd like to hear your response to it all. Either way would work. Its all good Jeff. :lol:

Sorry for the hijack Lake Dog. I didn't mean to steer your thread in the wrong direction. :lol:
It's all good bro!

Tell you what, we can both take on the rules committee in Philly... LOL

(BTW, I'm still telling Julie!!!!)

CivilWarBBQ
12-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I'd just like to say I am proud to see there are NOT any pictures in this thread. Especially with every cell phone including a camera these days, it's great to see folks are respecting the rules inside the judging tent.

swamprb
12-10-2009, 03:07 PM
I didn't see or taste it, but its still the talk around the PNWBA Judges circles.

Someone cooked a Corned Beef and submitted it as a Brisket turn in!
Pike Place Market, Seattle 2007

Exe-que-tioner
12-11-2009, 12:14 PM
6 "grilled" hotdogs in the sausage category at the 2007 American Royal with no garnish.:eek:

Pork Barrel Project
12-11-2009, 10:51 PM
A chicken entry turned in with roasted sweet potatoes for garnish. Needless to say, it was a first time cook who had skipped the meeting.

Rookie'48
12-11-2009, 11:40 PM
OK - here's a quote that I made in another thread:

As a judge I have seen boxes that you would not believe: KCBS chicken entry with foil under an uncut half chicky; another KCBS chicken entry with bunches of red & purple grapes for garnish; KCBS pork entry that had two hoagie rolls (each cut into thirds) in the box, making 6 little sammies; totally burnt (or raw) meat; the list goes on and on. I keep asking myself if some of these guys don't even bother to check the rules of the contest or attend the cooks' meeting :rolleyes:.
They are probably the same ones that I hear muttering during the awards ceremony that "everyone that tasted my BBQ says that it's the best ... blah, blah, blah ... what's the matter with these jerks?"

I have also seen Red tipped lettuce, foil (more than once), celery, tomato slices, toothpicks, butcher's twine and a piece of unidentified vegetable matter in the turn in box.
Along with the half-a-bird mentioned above, there have been ribs, pork slices and brisket that were not cut all of the way through, sometimes leaving less than the 6 required pieces. This is another good reason to put 7 or more pieces in the box!
Burnt chicken - I mean BURNT!!! One entry was damn near charcoal, thankfully it went to the table next to me, not mine :eek:. Sliced pork (the same one that didn't cut the slices all the way through) that was so raw that it was "tow-strap tough".

The vast majority of the entries will score a 7 or higher - but you sure do remember the terrible ones :roll:.

By the way, I've only judged for three years and still need one more comp for my Master CBJ. All of the contests that I've been to have been KCBS.

smithjohnson
04-09-2010, 05:09 AM
I'd just like to say I am proud to see there are NOT any pictures in this thread. Especially with every cell phone including a camera these days, it's great to see folks are respecting the rules inside the judging tent.

Agreed!
--------
London Caterers (http://www.rhubarb.net/)

River City Smokehouse
04-09-2010, 12:51 PM
2007 Blue Springs, Missouri................someone turned in 6 shot glasses of beer and 6 Marlboro cigarettes and 6 matches.

ModelMaker
04-09-2010, 01:05 PM
2007 Blue Springs, Missouri................someone turned in 6 shot glasses of beer and 6 Marlboro cigarettes and 6 matches.


And the catagory was post sex snack??
Ed

Arlin_MacRae
04-09-2010, 01:28 PM
2007 Blue Springs, Missouri................someone turned in 6 shot glasses of beer and 6 Marlboro cigarettes and 6 matches.

What'd they use for garnish, condom wrappers??

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 01:37 PM
I know that one of our own members turned in 6 shots of scotch for a desert entry... came in 15th out of 30+ if I recall....

Lake Dogs
04-09-2010, 02:28 PM
I know that one of our own members turned in 6 shots of scotch for a desert entry... came in 15th out of 30+ if I recall....

Tell him next to to use a good single malt scotch, that should get him
in the top 3.:thumb:

Divemaster
04-09-2010, 02:34 PM
I know that one of our own members turned in 6 shots of scotch for a desert entry... came in 15th out of 30+ if I recall....

Tell him next to to use a good single malt scotch, that should get him
in the top 3.:thumb:
It was all he had... He didn't know that he was expected to do it... lol

BRBBQ
04-16-2010, 11:38 PM
This is the way a box looked when we judged it, this is not the real box, but I made this up to look like the one we seen. Oh thats brisket.

SirPorkaLot
04-16-2010, 11:57 PM
Not to hijack but....



That was his problem... He's a Grill Master when what he needed was a Pit Master...

(OK, side note... When dip stick was about to start his drive he introduced his wife and friend who were there to 'help him'... Some help, they didn't know how to load up the cooker???)
Hey where'd you get my brisket box from?


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