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smokeshowin
11-20-2009, 06:36 PM
Just announced at Plant City during cook's meeting.

Pork shoulder or butt only. Once the meat has been removed from the cooker and opened, pulled, sliced, or otherwise, the cook may not return any part to the cooker for any purpose. This includes glazing or reheating if cooled.


Anybody else heard this before tonight?

Jeff Hughes
11-20-2009, 06:40 PM
It's not a new rule...

It is a rule that is very hard to enforce though...

smokeshowin
11-20-2009, 06:45 PM
Never heard of this before tonight. It's also not in the official rules at the KCBS site.
Jeff,if you know, would you shed some light on the reason behind the rule?

Finney
11-20-2009, 06:57 PM
It's part of Rule 10.

"PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted."

CajunSmoker
11-20-2009, 06:59 PM
remember the rules.

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.

Mike - CSBBBQ
11-20-2009, 06:59 PM
From what I heard they are not wanting teams to separate/pull/chop sauce and reheat in the pit. They have been reading at the cooks meeting for a couple of months. Don't know the genesis but someone got the board's ear.

smokeshowin
11-20-2009, 07:09 PM
I know the rule about cooking a whole butt. That's standard with most associations.
They were specific about the reheating part. I've talked with several teams here tonight and most did not know about this info.

Rules is rules, we'll play by them.

Redheart
11-20-2009, 07:21 PM
here is what I understand to be the pertinent clause, From Section 16 of the rules.


g) After cooking, all meat:
i) Must be held at 140° F or above OR
ii) Cooked meat shall be cooled as follows:
(1) Within 2 hours from 140° F to 70° F and
(2) Within 4 hours from 70° F to 41° F or less
(3) Meat that is cooked, properly cooled,
and later reheated for hot holding and serving
shall be reheated so that all parts of the food
reach a temperature of at least 165° F for a
minimum of 15 seconds.

The question becomes the definition of serving. Does it apply to only serving the public or serving the judges in a turn in box.

I would think that reheating was legal under this clause. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Smoky River BBQ
11-20-2009, 08:22 PM
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65578

A thread concerning the matter

Skip
11-20-2009, 08:57 PM
Just announced at Plant City during cook's meeting.

Pork shoulder or butt only. Once the meat has been removed from the cooker and opened, pulled, sliced, or otherwise, the cook may not return any part to the cooker for any purpose. This includes glazing or reheating if cooled.


Anybody else heard this before tonight?

Is that paraphrased? That doesn't sound exactly the way its written. They can't outlaw reheating food.

Bentley
11-20-2009, 09:09 PM
So I guess when it is done you dont take it off the pit, you just put a steam tray in the pit, part it, pull it, and sauce while it is still on the pit, then remove it...

Plowboy
11-20-2009, 10:12 PM
So I guess when it is done you dont take it off the pit, you just put a steam tray in the pit, part it, pull it, and sauce while it is still on the pit, then remove it...

Can't be in the pit parted, period. You part the product, it can't be in a pit with a heat source.

Folks, this was a topic back in late June. It has be in BOD minutes, all over the forums, and has been read at every contest since July.

PatioDaddio
11-20-2009, 10:18 PM
It's not new, but man, they sure do have a burr under their saddle about it. I think I heard it emphasized at every cook's meeting this season. It's also one of the most stupid KCBS rules. Let's see, I can cook and reheat every category except pork? Burnt ends from a brisket? No problem! Glazing a money muscle? No freakin' way! That's patently illegal!

Oh, and I love the part where the rules state that meat must be held at or above 140*, but you can't put it back on the cooker to keep it hot. Gotta love that logic.

And don't even get me started on the enforcement. Are they gonna patrol the cooks during turn-ins? I don't think so. Having a stupid rule is bad enough, but having a stupid rule that is all but unenforceable is even worse.

<end of vent>

John

P.S. On second thought, I think the "identifiable pieces" part of the rules may have been emphasized even more this year. That also takes stupidity to a whole new level. How about we just wait until all the judges are served and see if there was enough? Nah! They've gotta see those rib cut lines!

Skip
11-20-2009, 10:24 PM
Don't worry there are enough bunched panties that someone will flip on their fellow competitor.
I'm staying away from this one for now. This topic get me in trouble. I will say that the actual rep advisory is not represented here. It should be. The membership should read it and read it again. All too often interpretation is taken as fact.

KC_Bobby
11-20-2009, 10:33 PM
I thought this broken record ran out of airplay. :twisted:

smokeshowin
11-20-2009, 10:49 PM
I thought this broken record ran out of airplay. :twisted:


I guess that we do not hear about these things until it hits us. We only see a couple of KCBS events in Florida and never heard of a rule like this before with other organizations.
I missed the thread posted earlier. I have read it and will work with what we have.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
11-21-2009, 07:04 AM
here this goes again...the rules are the rules. follow them or dont play.

just my 2 cents.

Ford
11-21-2009, 07:22 AM
here is what I understand to be the pertinent clause, From Section 16 of the rules.


g) After cooking, all meat:
i) Must be held at 140 F or above OR
ii) Cooked meat shall be cooled as follows:
(1) Within 2 hours from 140 F to 70 F and
(2) Within 4 hours from 70 F to 41 F or less
(3) Meat that is cooked, properly cooled,
and later reheated for hot holding and serving
shall be reheated so that all parts of the food
reach a temperature of at least 165 F for a
minimum of 15 seconds.

The question becomes the definition of serving. Does it apply to only serving the public or serving the judges in a turn in box.

I would think that reheating was legal under this clause. Just my thoughts on the matter.
So long as you cool to the proper temp below 41F it is legal to reheat. However in the case of pork it must be whole and not parted. What's so hard to understand about that.

This rule is to stop people from cutting out the money muscle and cooking it by itself. Unfortunately it also catches people saucing and reheating.

goodsmokebbq
11-21-2009, 09:10 AM
So long as you cool to the proper temp below 41F it is legal to reheat. However in the case of pork it must be whole and not parted. What's so hard to understand about that.

This rule is to stop people from cutting out the money muscle and cooking it by itself. Unfortunately it also catches people saucing and reheating.

I don't cook money muscle, but I also get caught in the rule because I want to reheat my pulled pork?

Once a shoulder is cooked through then who cares?

Can't the rule, which is designed to stop people from cooking only money muscle, say "You can not just cook the money muscle". Done and Done.

I say again, I just want to give the judges hot food.

Come on Skip, you know you can't stay away :-P.

early mornin' smokin'
11-21-2009, 09:43 AM
sorry guys, i know this is a dead horse, but id hate to get dq'ed for a silly mistake. If my butts are on the cooker and i give it a few whacks with a set of tongs and pour sauce over the top. Completely illegal in my understanding

Jorge
11-21-2009, 09:49 AM
I don't cook money muscle, but I also get caught in the rule because I want to reheat my pulled pork?

Once a shoulder is cooked through then who cares?

Can't the rule, which is designed to stop people from cooking only money muscle, say "You can not just cook the money muscle". Done and Done.

I say again, I just want to give the judges hot food.

Come on Skip, you know you can't stay away :-P.

The intent goes beyond preventing people from just cooking the $muscle. It's there to prevent folks from subbing a tenderloin as well.

The rule should be clear to all by this point. A butt may not be cooked or warmed once it has been parted.

For those that object, I'd strongly urge you to write to the BoD and request a change in the rules prior to the rules meeting.

Personally, I don't care what the rule is as long as the same rule and intent are applied by all contest reps. When this issue first surfaced it became very clear to me that some reps had a different interpretation of what was legal.

Jorge
11-21-2009, 09:54 AM
sorry guys, i know this is a dead horse, but id hate to get dq'ed for a silly mistake. If my butts are on the cooker and i give it a few whacks with a set of tongs and pour sauce over the top. Completely illegal in my understanding

In all seriousness, I guess it would depend on how hard you whack it. If you have one piece of meat, and everything is still attached, and the butt meets the minimum size requirement then I think you are fine.

Plowboy
11-21-2009, 09:59 AM
The intent goes beyond preventing people from just cooking the $muscle. It's there to prevent folks from subbing a tenderloin as well.

The rule should be clear to all by this point. A butt may not be cooked or warmed once it has been parted.

For those that object, I'd strongly urge you to write to the BoD and request a change in the rules prior to the rules meeting.

Personally, I don't care what the rule is as long as the same rule and intent are applied by all contest reps. When this issue first surfaced it became very clear to me that some reps had a different interpretation of what was legal.

What is a String Muscle? ($muscle)

<I had an extra helping of smartass this morning.>

BBQchef33
11-21-2009, 10:01 AM
sorry guys, i know this is a dead horse, but id hate to get dq'ed for a silly mistake. If my butts are on the cooker and i give it a few whacks with a set of tongs and pour sauce over the top. Completely illegal in my understanding

In all seriousness, I guess it would depend on how hard you whack it. If you have one piece of meat, and everything is still attached, and the butt meets the minimum size requirement then I think you are fine.

agree..

Even if u take it out, butterfly it but leaving it all one piece, sauce it and put it back.. its legal.

(Even if its just attached by a single string of meat, its legal. Goofy, but legal).

Jeff Hughes
11-21-2009, 11:37 AM
Lots of people just cook two butts(or more) to get around this. Butterfly one with the the money muscle barely attached, cook the other to pull...

Bentley
11-21-2009, 01:18 PM
Just announced at Plant City during cook's meeting.

Pork shoulder or butt only. Once the meat has been removed from the cooker and opened, pulled, sliced, or otherwise, the cook may not return any part to the cooker for any purpose. This includes glazing or reheating if cooled.


Anybody else heard this before tonight?

If this is what is being told, it seems to be ambiguous about parting. Please don't mention anything about cooker, let the rule stand on its written meaning. But maybe something was lost in translation.

Can't be in the pit parted, period. You part the product, it can't be in a pit with a heat source.


That makes sense, a rep stating what was said above does not.

here this goes again...the rules are the rules. follow them or dont play.


Agreed, just make sure Reps are not speaking out of turn at a cooks meeting where new teams my interperate the spoken rule differently.

I don't cook money muscle, but I also get caught in the rule because I want to reheat my pulled pork?


Cooked in competitions since 2003 and don't even know what it is. In all seriousness, can someone post a picture of it.

agree..

Even if u take it out, butterfly it but leaving it all one piece, sauce it and put it back.. its legal.

(Even if its just attached by a single string of meat, its legal. Goofy, but legal).


I guess that is the only way we could get sauce cooked on after it has been pulled from pit. That is all we are trying to do...But we sucked so bad this year, what would it matter!

KC_Bobby
11-21-2009, 01:55 PM
I guess that we do not hear about these things until it hits us. We only see a couple of KCBS events in Florida and never heard of a rule like this before with other organizations.
I missed the thread posted earlier. I have read it and will work with what we have.

My apologies if it sounded as if I was calling you out. Not my intentions. I was just joking around as we've had a few threads on this topic since mid summer.

And kudo's to your post above. I think I now understand why their is confusion. It sounds as if FBA and other BBQ organizations allow it. If so, I was not aware of that.

goodsmokebbq
11-21-2009, 05:34 PM
The intent goes beyond preventing people from just cooking the $muscle. It's there to prevent folks from subbing a tenderloin as well.


We already have a rule to prevent people from cooking tenderloin.

"
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.

"

KC_Bobby
11-21-2009, 06:22 PM
We already have a rule to prevent people from cooking tenderloin.

That is correct. Yet some people must not have thought that the rule pertained to them - thus the need for the non-parting rule of the butt.

Agree with the rule or not ... that's objective and I don't think many of us have a problem with those who did it without understanding it's against the rules or those that request it to be addressed. But I do think I can say many of us have an issue with the handful of cooks not honoring the rule after finding out it's illegal.

smokeshowin
11-21-2009, 07:40 PM
My apologies if it sounded as if I was calling you out. Not my intentions. I was just joking around as we've had a few threads on this topic since mid summer.

And kudo's to your post above. I think I now understand why their is confusion. It sounds as if FBA and other BBQ organizations allow it. If so, I was not aware of that.

No hard feelings on my part. There were alot of whats? around our seats last night when that was brought up. Didn't make any difference anyway, the judges have our pork way down in scoring this week.
Didn't mean to stir the pot. Thanks for the info.

Jorge
11-21-2009, 07:50 PM
We already have a rule to prevent people from cooking tenderloin.

"
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or
Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds.
Pork shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be
parted.

"



Email the BoD. I don't care to debate it at this point.

PatioDaddio
11-21-2009, 11:53 PM
E-mail the B.O.D... Yeah that's right up there with e-mailing Congress and telling them to take their healthcare bill and jam it. Good luck.

John

Plowboy
11-22-2009, 08:48 AM
E-mail the B.O.D... Yeah that's right up there with e-mailing Congress and telling them to take their healthcare bill and jam it. Good luck.

John

So is debating it here.

Plowboy
11-22-2009, 09:11 AM
So a couple of weeks ago a couple of us were talking about this, and I think I have a solution. Here seems to be the main themes around the rule.

- Needs/wants for setting sauce after pulled/sliced
- Needs/wants for reheating product after pulled/sliced
- Disallow people from slicing (parting) off money muscle and returning the rest to the pit to finish cooking to a different internal temperature

The key pieces in the rule that is getting all of the above into a bind are the definitions of parting and cooking. Parting seems straight forward in terms of knowing what that means. You make multiple pieces, it is parted. Cooking is the sticky whicket. Is reheating cooking? Is applying heat to set sauce Cooking? Some will say that once it reaches a certain temperature (like 165), it is technically cooked. Some will say that cooking is applying any heat source to the product whether is increases one degree or not.

Here's my rule suggestion, "Pork that is pulled or parted can be returned to the pit for a period no longer than 30 minutes."

Sauce can be set in that time. Reheating, assuming that the product isn't straight out of the cooler, can happen in that time. At the same time, you aren't going to get a 180 degree money muscle and the rest of the butt to 195-200 in that amount of time.

There is no perfect rule for this that will satisfy all of the objectives above. As for the sentiments about rules being unenforceable, be careful what you wish for. I'd guess that the percentage of teams who would knowingly not play within the rules is minimal at best. Without a system like Nascar where you have an official in your pit area watching your every move, we have to rely on the honor system. The honor system actually works for 99+% of the teams our there. Yes there are cheaters, but I doubt they are actually having a significant affect on contest results. If they get a ribbon, let it serve as source of personal guilt and karma. I don't want us getting so concerned about cheating that I've got someone over my shoulder throughout the contest.

goodsmokebbq
11-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Here's my rule suggestion, "Pork that is pulled or parted can be returned to the pit for a period no longer than 30 minutes."



I think this is very reasonable. And I appreciate someone atleast trying to suggest a solution. Not just "You are wrong" live with it.

"Email the BoD. I don't care to debate it at this point. " (If you don't want to debate it why the response?):-P

I have had conversations with BOD and will be at the rules meeting.

Buy the way I still warm my pork, I just super heat a cast iron skillet on the grill, remove and sauce the pork in the skillet. Completely legal and Easy Peasy...:-D

Jeff Hughes
11-22-2009, 09:46 AM
Buy the way I still warm my pork, I just super heat a cast iron skillet on the grill, remove and sauce the pork in the skillet. Completely legal and Easy Peasy...:-D

That may indeed be legal, but that technique would seem to be walking a very fine line...

Plowboy
11-22-2009, 10:17 AM
"Email the BoD. I don't care to debate it at this point. " (If you don't want to debate it why the response?):-P


Jorge DIDN'T respond.

Skip
11-22-2009, 11:39 AM
Its a shame that every time one of these threads appears with genuine concern from a member that the PORK NAZI's come out screaming...."Whats so hard to understand"...."This the way it is period".... "The rules is the rules". Why can't we just do the right thing and give that person the tools to see for themselves. How hard is it just to post the rule? We still haven't posted the rep advisory either yet we can scream and yell at those with different interpretations. What would this forum be if we acted like this when someone asked how to prep a brisket or build a UDS or run the minion method. Heck we'd be just as well off as the forum Poobah left to build this one.

I will leave you all with this. NONE of you know what the rule means and that is because NONE of you can positively indentify what is meant by the wording. Both the rep advisory and the current rule are written in poor grammar and would never stand up to any scrutiny. What we need to do is be at the rules meeting and HELP the BoD write a concise and rock solid interpretation of the intent of the rule. Not to fight our fellow cooks on it. Not to condemn the interpretations of other you don't agree with. To HELP the membership come up with something acceptable to all.

By fighting to remove what you preceive as someone elses advantage only gives you an unfair advantage when you succeed.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 11:44 AM
By fighting to remove what you preceive as someone elses advantage only gives you an unfair advantage when you succeed.
I don't perceive it as an "advantage". We somehow managed to pull in ahead of the nation's top teams a couple weeks ago without needing to part our pork and then "set sauce" on it.

I take exception to people who have a rule and an advisory handed to them, and over time are very clearly not trying to understand the rule, but simply reiterating their intention to continue preparing pork however they like because they rationalize their "interpretation".

Skip
11-22-2009, 11:56 AM
I take exception to people who have a rule and an advisory handed to them, and over time are very clearly not trying to understand the rule, but simply reiterating their intention to continue preparing pork however they like because they rationalize their "interpretation".

To understand the rule you must be able to define it. To properly define it you must use proper grammar. If you don't its meaning is open to interpretation and that puts us where we are right now. I think those you take exception with would be insulted to think that you feel they are not trying to understand the rule when its clear they are truly interested in understanding it. They obviously have a vested interest in it or they wouldn't be here discussing it.

I haven't had the advisory handed to me nor, would I gather, have those you take exception with. Most of us have only had it read to us. I did ask that it be posted here by someone who had it but that didn't happen.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:02 PM
To understand the rule you must be able to define it.
Is that so? A number of people have no problem whatsoever understanding it. Prehaps they're not trying to split the right hairs.

They obviously have a vested interest in it or they wouldn't be here discussing it.
Yes, they obviously have a vested interest in continuing to cook as they please, which they "preceive as an advantage".

I haven't had the advisory handed to me ... I did ask that it be posted here by someone who had it but that didn't happen.
Disingenuous once again. You've had the rule in every downloaded copy of KCBS rules, and the advisory has been read at contests. Have you once asked a REP to give you a copy of the advisory, or send you the wording? Why do you claim it's incumbent on members of a message board to supply you with the exact wording of a rule and advisory that they have no trouble following?

Tell you what: why don't you contact a rep, KCBS or someone who can give you the exact authorized wording on the pork advisory, and ask that it be posted here as a sticky. Then that tired old disingenous argument can be laid to rest.

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:09 PM
I don't perceive it as an "advantage". We somehow managed to pull in ahead of the nation's top teams a couple weeks ago without needing to part our pork and then "set sauce" on it.

Ok I am going to try and be as respectful as I can. You success is admirable and as a fellow brethren I applaud you on your technique. It is nice when you do something a particular way and prevail. But I must ask you. Is your way the only way? My grandmother taught me that lesson. Just because you have success doing it one way doesn't mean its the only way. Maybe you don't need to set sauce yet others might find that to be their way. Maybe you don't have a problem with heat in your pork while others do. Still it doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.

We have a lot of diversity in this sport we belong to from spices to woods to cookers. One way isn't the only way. If we as competitors can't put aside our own set in stone interpretations and embrace the diversity of cooking styles we are doomed to make our sport a one ring circus with nothing to look forward to but the same ol' same.

Lets work together, rather than against, to bring a close to this in January at the Banquet.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:11 PM
Is your way the only way?
Where have I said THAT? I simply illustrated that it is possible to cook well within the rules.

Still it doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.
No, it means that our methods are within the rules.

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:16 PM
Disingenuous once again. You've had the rule in every downloaded copy of KCBS rules, and the advisory has been read at contests. Have you once asked a REP to give you a copy of the advisory, or send you the wording? Why do you claim it's incumbent on members of a message board to supply you with the exact wording of a rule and advisory that they have no trouble following?


Not disingenuous at all. The rule was not in question. The rep advisory was. Where did I claim it was, as you say, incumbent on membership to provide me when all i did was ask if someone COULD post it. I only asked...I did not demand. I will have to disagree. There are a few, as we see the posts, who do have trouble following it.
The advisory was read at ONE contest that I attended. Sorry if my friendly feeler was preceived as a outright demand for the rep advisory. I knew there were many here who would have access to it.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:20 PM
You've had since July to obtain the wording, rather than rely on "friendly feelers".

Since the advisory troubles you so, why have you not done that?

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:26 PM
Where have I said THAT? I simply illustrated that it is possible to cook well within the rules.

You didn't. That is why I prefaced it with "But I must ask you" which clear meant I was asking you a question not condemning you for it.

We are all passionate about what we "know". Sometimes what we know can be turned on its ear and be found to be totally wrong. Just as the opposite can occur. We should not close down our minds when we preceive our thoughts to be right. Does the sun revovle around the earth? Do flies spontaneously morph out of fecal matter? Does cutting down trees stop the snow from falling? These were all hardened rules at one time in mankinds history. We know different now. Fact is fact and can only be found from due diligence. What we see in these threads every time is due diligence at work. The establishmnet has there side and the others have theres. Doesn't make one more right then the other when there is a difference in interpretation.

Kosmo's Q
11-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Lets all remember why we are really at a comp. To drink, over sleep, and rush like hell to get everything done on time. Oh and pray that we can win a little gas money to take our hungover butts back home.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:30 PM
Fact is fact
And rules are rules. The rule and advisory are fact.

due dilligence
Which you have studiously avoided by claiming that the exact wording of the advisory is so critical that you have avoided obtaining it on your own since July.

Doesn't make one more right then the other when there is a difference in interpretation.
The only "interpretation" that is relevant is that of the sanctioning body.
You can be right all you want, as long as you are right within the rules.

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:33 PM
You've had since July to obtain the wording, rather than rely on "friendly feelers".

Since the advisory troubles you so, why have you not done that?

Because I was willing to wait until the rules meeting in January. I find it hard to believe anyone had it read to them and didn't cock their head like a dog hearing a high pitch sound.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Because I was willing to wait until the rules meeting in January. I find it hard to believe anyone had it read to them and didn't cock their head like a dog hearing a high pitch sound.
Really? Since you espouse diversity of cooking styles, you find it hard to believe that anyone has a pork method that doesn't conflict with the advisory?

It's a lot more fun to wait for the rules meeting in January when you can kick it around in a forum for months in the meantime. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:42 PM
Which you have studiously avoided by claiming that the exact wording of the advisory is so critical that you have avoided obtaining it on your own since July.


Actually that is completely false. If you were to read the other threads that lead up to this one you would know I took it on as a little pet project to ask EVERY rep at EVERY contest after they annouced a rep advisory to show it to me. Didn't hear one until end of September. So yes I did my due diligence. Is there a problem with putting out friendly feelers for the author of this thread?

I would like you to try and stop with your attacks to make me look like a whiny little brat who has nothing to say. All of your attempts to marginalize me have been met with proper response to rebute your accusations about my disingenuous ways. If you wish to be right and prove me wrong then please post the rule and advisory and show me where my interpretation is wrong and yours is right. This isn't a challenge nor am I trying to make you look bad. I just can not sit idle when someone tries to silence the other side when they truly have a right to speak. My interpretation is no more wrong or right then yours and the advisory did not help change that.

trohrs123
11-22-2009, 12:45 PM
its a shame that every time one of these threads appears with genuine concern from a member that the pork nazi's come out screaming...."whats so hard to understand"...."this the way it is period".... "the rules is the rules". Why can't we just do the right thing and give that person the tools to see for themselves. How hard is it just to post the rule? We still haven't posted the rep advisory either yet we can scream and yell at those with different interpretations. What would this forum be if we acted like this when someone asked how to prep a brisket or build a uds or run the minion method. Heck we'd be just as well off as the forum poobah left to build this one.

I will leave you all with this. None of you know what the rule means and that is because none of you can positively indentify what is meant by the wording. Both the rep advisory and the current rule are written in poor grammar and would never stand up to any scrutiny. What we need to do is be at the rules meeting and help the bod write a concise and rock solid interpretation of the intent of the rule. Not to fight our fellow cooks on it. Not to condemn the interpretations of other you don't agree with. To help the membership come up with something acceptable to all.

By fighting to remove what you preceive as someone elses advantage only gives you an unfair advantage when you succeed.


amen

Skip
11-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Really? Since you espouse diversity of cooking styles, you find it hard to believe that anyone has a pork method that doesn't conflict with the advisory?


Nope that not what I am saying. In fact I am sure there are those out there who strip their money muscle at a low temp and put that butt back on to get great pulled pork. That is against the rules and the advisory. The cocked head comment meant that the wording of the advisory is written in very poor grammar. Two or three of the sentences end without conclusion. My tyrannical 4 grade teacher would give us that paragraph to diagram just to watch us sweat.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 12:55 PM
Actually that is completely false. If you were to read the other threads that lead up to this one you would know I took it on as a little pet project to ask EVERY rep at EVERY contest after they annouced a rep advisory to show it to me. Didn't hear one until end of September. So yes I did my due diligence.
Sounds like you need to bring your reps' performance to the attention of KCBS. How many contests did you attend since July that did not comply with the reading of the advisory?

I would like you to try and stop with your attacks
Where have I attacked you?

This isn't a challenge
No, it's not. The only challenge seems to lie in actually following the rules.


I am sure there are those out there who strip their money muscle at a low temp and put that butt back on to get great pulled pork. That is against the rules and the advisory.
Yes, it is. Nor do we find it necessary to do that.
I am wondering why you felt the need to introduce that?

Jorge
11-22-2009, 01:03 PM
This might be a good time, to agree to disagree and let it go.

Skip
11-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Sounds like you need to bring your reps' performance to the attention of KCBS. How many contests did you attend since July that did not comply with the reading of the advisory?
6


Where have I attacked you?

Anyone who has read this thread sees what I see. Comments meant to inflame a situation and cloud content are preceived as attacks.


No, it's not. The only challenge seems to lie in actually following the rules.

Oh this fits in with the previous quote. Thanks for the proof.



Yes, it is. Nor do we find it necessary to do that.
I am wondering why you felt the need to introduce that?

I welcome you and anyone else to come and sit in my compound around prk turn in time. If you were diligent about being informed on this debate you would have seen numerous times that I didn't even use the saucing and warming technique....just knew of people who did. People who I consider upstanding and honorable competitors. I found it hard to believe that the first thought out of other competitors minds was that these good people were cheaters. But I guess we just have those people in this world who will always think the worst...and then put their horrible thoughts of others out on a board for all to see. Oh and is this an attack on my integrity? I surely hope not.

Alexa RnQ
11-22-2009, 01:23 PM
This might be a good time, to agree to disagree and let it go.
Happy to comply. :wink:

goodsmokebbq
11-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Jorge DIDN'T respond.


Just a little ribbin, it's only BBQ afterall :-D.

goodsmokebbq
11-22-2009, 01:54 PM
That may indeed be legal, but that technique would seem to be walking a very fine line...


What line? Not even close, the pork does not ever come close to a cooker after I "Part" it.

Is this any different then putting your parted pork in a heated cambro?

Or mixig with heated sauce?

Plowboy
11-22-2009, 02:15 PM
And with this thread it is official... winter is upon us. Let the cabin fever begin!!!

DMDon
11-22-2009, 02:27 PM
I think Todd parted that crown and put some of it back in the cooker. Man, thats a big melon.

Plowboy
11-22-2009, 03:15 PM
I think Todd parted that crown and put some of it back in the cooker. Man, thats a big melon.

It sure ain't no Denner Pin Head.

big brother smoke
11-22-2009, 04:13 PM
I think Todd parted that crown and put some of it back in the cooker. Man, thats a big melon.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


Ahhhhh Winter!

WannaBeBBQueen
11-22-2009, 04:38 PM
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


Ahhhhh Winter!I so need it to be April...please let it be April....is it April yet??? Oh boy is this gonna be a long winter :rolleyes:

all right I'd settle for the end of March :biggrin:

Jeff Hughes
11-22-2009, 06:03 PM
What line? Not even close, the pork does not ever come close to a cooker after I "Part" it.

Is this any different then putting your parted pork in a heated cambro?

Or mixig with heated sauce?

It may be that putting pork in a cast iron skillet that has been"super heat"ed is okay. I don't know, but I bet that skillet is a lot hotter than any cambro can get, and way closer the the definition of reheating. Hell, you might be able to cook a raw money muscle in that skillet.

I have a warm spot on the shelf of my Klose next to the fire box. I use that spot to heat sauce. In Ponca I put the money muscle in a small aluminum pan with sauce in it there before I built my box. I thought about it for a second, and asked a good friend of mine(and very seasoned competitor) who was set up next to me if he thought I was violating the rule. He did. I pulled it off. I'm sure your skillet is way hotter than that spot on my shelf.

I don't want anyone to even think I don't follow the rules. I don't want to have to argue about it or have anyone feel my scores are tainted.

I hope this gets resolved in Philly, it sure ain't gonna happen here...

Kosmo's Q
11-22-2009, 06:27 PM
Sorry couldn't resist.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r99/Dariankozz/4qqf9yp1.gif

smokeshowin
11-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Folks, I asked a question with good intent. I had not seen the other thread about the subject.
I now know to be more careful about asking questions and research the archives first.
Let's call a end to this and let it go.

And as for winter, still way too hot in the sun today.

Skip
11-22-2009, 07:43 PM
How's it feel Pandora? lol

smokeshowin
11-22-2009, 07:47 PM
How's it feel Pandora? lol

I feel like I am living up to the wording in your avatar.

smoke showin'
11-22-2009, 08:05 PM
wow 5 pages way to go SS II

smoke showin'
11-22-2009, 08:07 PM
now ask how you get 6's on some of the best turn in's we ever did ??????

smokeshowin
11-22-2009, 08:19 PM
Note to readers;
I am not talking to myself yet. My team partner used nearly the same name when he signed up.

Jacked UP BBQ
11-22-2009, 08:31 PM
still is the dumbest rule in the kcbs, makes no sense.

Skip
11-22-2009, 08:34 PM
Note to readers;
I am not talking to myself yet. My team partner used nearly the same name when he signed up.


Too funny. You had me doing a double take

Skip
11-22-2009, 08:35 PM
Sorry couldn't resist.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r99/Dariankozz/4qqf9yp1.gif

I was waiting for the guy on his knees punching the horse. lol

Jeff Hughes
11-22-2009, 09:51 PM
now ask how you get 6's on some of the best turn in's we ever did ??????

Brother, that's a different 6 page thread...

CTSmokehouse
11-22-2009, 09:52 PM
I so need it to be April...please let it be April....is it April yet??? Oh boy is this gonna be a long winter :rolleyes:

all right I'd settle for the end of March :biggrin:


So you are not going to freeze your Butt off this winter...? BTW it is still Fall!

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family....