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tmcmaster
11-19-2009, 05:12 AM
I may still be relatively new to all of this, but in my time here I have noticed a fairly gaping divide between pellet smokers (Pellet Heads) and the wood/charcoal smokers (stick/twig burners) crowd.

My question is this:

Is there really that much of a conflict? I know everyone has their preferences, but, it seems that there are a few Pellet Heads that are totally committed to them, and vice versa...

I really hope this doesn't open any old wounds or cause any strife...

Dale P
11-19-2009, 05:37 AM
Not from me. I could care less what anyone else uses. More power to them.

CaptTable
11-19-2009, 05:59 AM
Good for you, Dale. I wish all cooks felt that way and I do believe that most do.

Hope all is going well with the crew! We miss you guys.

Phillip

rksylves
11-19-2009, 06:01 AM
Actually, I applaud the use of different smokers, rubs, sauces, injections, fuels, etc, etc. If everone used the same equipment then it would get REALLY boring.

I love my WSMs but I would really like to try a Stumps or an FEC. I've even thought about building a UDS just for the fun of it. To each his/her own!!

Russ

bbq ron
11-19-2009, 06:06 AM
next year will be my first comp. and i have a big stick burner. i like the idea of different kinds of cookers so things will be more interesting. just my thoughts :-P:-P

Ford
11-19-2009, 06:58 AM
I may still be relatively new to all of this, but in my time here I have noticed a fairly gaping divide between pellet smokers (Pellet Heads) and the wood/charcoal smokers (stick/twig burners) crowd.

My question is this:

Is there really that much of a conflict? I know everyone has their preferences, but, it seems that there are a few Pellet Heads that are totally committed to them, and vice versa...

I really hope this doesn't open any old wounds or cause any strife...
Most all you hear on this Board is good natured kidding. A few stick burners think that's all that should be allowed but in the end that would eliminate most teams, after charcoal is not a stick.

Most of what you read is more like "My Ford truck is better than your Chevy". Or in Nascar Chevy rules. All just fun.

But for the record it is nice to see all the pellet teams doing so good.

Muddy River Boy
11-19-2009, 07:00 AM
For me it doesn't really matter what someone else is using to cook on. I have always cooked on a stickburner and that is what I know. Are there advantages to using a pellet cooker? Absolutely. Does it make it that much sweeter when you finish ahead of a pellet cooker. HELL YES.:!: I feel like I am controlling Mother Nature and not a thermostat and electricity. Does that mean that I will never have a pellet cooker? No, it just means that I have not bought one yet:icon_bigsmil For now I will just keep cooking on my archaic stick burner and Razz the heck out of Pellet Heads.

Next thing you know I will razz my buddy for driving a FORD, because everyone knows that CHEVY's RULE!!!!!!:lol:

Just my $.02 worth.

Clint

G$
11-19-2009, 07:26 AM
I wish that pellet cookers and other electronic assist devices were not allowed. I really do. BUT, they are allowed, so bring 'em on, no conflict between cooks.

Is It Ready Yet?
11-19-2009, 07:38 AM
Yea...I'm with most people. Don't really care what everyone else is using. We enjoy cooking on the Lang and feel it would be odd to get some sleep on Friday night. For us, keeping the Lang "happy"" all night is not work but FUN. If we were to get another cooker that was easier to maintain temp, we would not cook. Just my $.02.

Sledneck
11-19-2009, 07:38 AM
i am staying neutral using a wsm controlled by a stoker using bbqqrs delight smoke stix

G$
11-19-2009, 07:42 AM
i am staying neutral using a wsm controlled by a stoker using bbqqrs delight smoke stix

You're not neutral, you're just trying to offend everybody!

Buster Dog BBQ
11-19-2009, 07:45 AM
If this is a double post please delete one.

I dont care what people use. If you dont know how to cook bbq it doesn't matter. Teams like Pellet Envy and Smokey D's show they can cook with or without pellets and win.

I have a pellet cooker I use for contest and love it. But on the same note, I have multiple big green eggs at home and can control them without temp devices. After hauling two large eggs and an x large around it was just not practical, so I went with the pellet. In my opinion, the pellet cookers are no different then someone using a stoker or a guru on a different smoker. They are doing the same thing.

SirPorkaLot
11-19-2009, 07:50 AM
I've always been partial to wood in my stick burner, and to lump in my kettle, but it is the way i do it.
The way others do it is different, and like the rest have said - more power to them.

I would still like to reserve the right to give pellet heads a hard time though :mrgreen:

Oh and for the record - FORD rules!

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
11-19-2009, 07:51 AM
its not the cooker its the cook. I cook on 2 meadowcreek pr42 pig roasters. I can control them with out any assist. heck I have even gotten a call or 2. The pellet cookers are super easy to use, but so are most of the cookers if you take some time to get to know them.

Divemaster
11-19-2009, 07:58 AM
For me it doesn't really matter what someone else is using to cook on. I have always cooked on a stickburner and that is what I know. Are there advantages to using a pellet cooker? Absolutely. Does it make it that much sweeter when you finish ahead of a pellet cooker. HELL YES.:!: I feel like I am controlling Mother Nature and not a thermostat and electricity. Does that mean that I will never have a pellet cooker? No, it just means that I have not bought one yet:icon_bigsmil For now I will just keep cooking on my archaic stick burner and Razz the heck out of Pellet Heads.

Next thing you know I will razz my buddy for driving a FORD, because everyone knows that CHEVY's RULE!!!!!!:lol:

Just my $.02 worth.

Clint

Yea...I'm with most people. Don't really care what everyone else is using. We enjoy cooking on the Lang and feel it would be odd to get some sleep on Friday night. For us, keeping the Lang "happy"" all night is not work but FUN. If we were to get another cooker that was easier to maintain temp, we would not cook. Just my $.02.
I agree... I don't care what they cook on, I enjoy cooking on my Lang (she didn't get called the 'Mistress' cause I ignore her!). And yes, I really do enjoy scoring better than the pellet heads, but in the end, we are all still friends... Well mostly... Execpt for Sled....

i am staying neutral using a wsm controlled by a stoker using bbqqrs delight smoke stix

You're not neutral, you're just trying to offend everybody!
That's just the way he rolls... lol

Jacked UP BBQ
11-19-2009, 08:05 AM
I have both, I use whichever I feel like using. I have done well with both. It is not the cooker it's the sauce!

TN_BBQ
11-19-2009, 08:42 AM
One idea might simply be to verbally recognize the top "au-natural / traditional" finisher at a contest. I wouldn't go making a separate category or throwing extra money around...but I think even the tech heads would give a special round of applause to a stick burner.

On a similar note (sorta).

Local sports talk radio show had an interesting discussion about traditions.

The school's fight song was introduced only about 30 years ago.

The paint scheme was introduced, dropped and re-introduced about 25 years ago.

Lots of other "traditions" are fairly recent when you consider they've been playing ball over there for over 100 years and if they took away those traditions it would upset a lot of people. Bottom line...things change.

Technology is part of it. Some folks resist (cant' say I blame them too much and I too resist to a certain extent) and talk about "the way things used to be" which is a virtual impossible standard to uphold (let's go back to playing golf with leather balls and wooden sticks :-D).

Alexa RnQ
11-19-2009, 09:05 AM
There's no notation on the score sheet as to what type of cooker was used. We enjoy our wins based on the reputations and records of the teams present, not what cookers they're currently using.

Big Ugly's BBQ
11-19-2009, 10:21 AM
heck I have even gotten a call or 2.


Sal, cell phone calls don't count!!!!!!:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:


For the record, I don't care who cooks on what, its the cook and how consistent they are in producing their version of outstanding BBQ.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
11-19-2009, 10:51 AM
Sal, cell phone calls don't count!!!!!!:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:


For the record, I don't care who cooks on what, its the cook and how consistent they are in producing their version of outstanding BBQ.

oh carp, I thought they did count..any way, use what you like, heck bring an electric oven. the cooker only does so much..

now what happened to that Ugly guy?:icon_devil:icon_devil

Lake Dogs
11-19-2009, 10:55 AM
STICKS RULE; PELLETS DROOL.

Aren't pellets the things that come from the back-side of a rabbit?.... Just sayin'...

Big Ugly's BBQ
11-19-2009, 12:19 PM
now what happened to that Ugly guy?:icon_devil:icon_devil

Finally pulled my head out of another body part, and learned the err of my way.

Diva Q
11-19-2009, 12:43 PM
It doesn't matter what you cook on. I love my Traegers. I love my WSM's there is a balance between both for us. If you are a decent pitmaster you should be able to cook on anything and have great results.

WineMaster
11-19-2009, 01:47 PM
Pellets are just little sticks. Big stick burners are not a cure for TWS.

Just sayin

Is It Ready Yet?
11-19-2009, 02:08 PM
It doesn't matter what you cook on. I love my Traegers. I love my WSM's there is a balance between both for us. If you are a decent pitmaster you should be able to cook on anything and have great results.

I agree! A grate, A log and a piece of meat is all you need.

early mornin' smokin'
11-19-2009, 02:23 PM
would you bring an oven to a bbq competition.....funny, turn on an fec-100 and it says oven temp...jest sayin

Butcher BBQ
11-19-2009, 02:27 PM
I cook on FEC's. I think they should allow any type of a cooker. When a team wins they like to say I beat the the best, also wouldn't you like to say the best cook on everything possible not just a pellet or stick. Food for thought and yes I just opened that can of worms:cool:.

Scottie
11-19-2009, 02:41 PM
would you bring an oven to a bbq competition.....funny, turn on an fec-100 and it says oven temp...jest sayin


This is just the kind of remark that makes folks irritated... I guess my question to you is you can't beat the FE's, so you have to bash them?

what is a smoker anyway? It's a oven...

sorry, crawling back to my rock.

Buster Dog BBQ
11-19-2009, 02:45 PM
would you bring an oven to a bbq competition.....funny, turn on an fec-100 and it says oven temp...jest sayin
That's only because "The best farkin smoker in the world" won't fit.:twisted:

Lake Dogs
11-19-2009, 02:47 PM
LOL. Lighten up! Smoke a fatty. Enjoy the sunset! Have a good cigar. Slap your
wife on the butt a few times... Enjoy the smell of smoke in the air, whether from
a stick burner or one of those oven thingies... ;-)

early mornin' smokin'
11-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Im just saying, if it's truly the cook and not the cooker, why are there rules regarding what type of cooker has to be used...burning wood in a thermostatically computer controlled pit with an electric auger takes a lot of the fun outta things in my book.
Comps have all sorts of things that go wrong, power can go down, people with gurus and stokers are scrambling around opening up vents, letting there cookers run au-natural, but what does the guy with the "oven" do, in my book, he's S.O.L. unless he has his own generator.

Scottie
11-19-2009, 03:00 PM
Im just saying, if it's truly the cook and not the cooker, why are there rules regarding what type of cooker has to be used...burning wood in a thermostatically computer controlled pit with an electric auger takes a lot of the fun outta things in my book.
Comps have all sorts of things that go wrong, power can go down, people with gurus and stokers are scrambling around opening up vents, letting there cookers run au-natural, but what does the guy with the "oven" do, in my book, he's S.O.L. unless he has his own generator.


I'm not going to get into a argument on this subject with you. But you have a lot to learn...

And who really cares if you think it's not fun cooking on a FE! I know one thing for sure. I enjoy walking in to my bank on Monday and making a deposit from all the money that I won from the weekend... If you don't like them, then don't cook on them. but don't tell me I am wrong because you don't agree with me...

Ford
11-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Im just saying, if it's truly the cook and not the cooker, why are there rules regarding what type of cooker has to be used...burning wood in a thermostatically computer controlled pit with an electric auger takes a lot of the fun outta things in my book.
Comps have all sorts of things that go wrong, power can go down, people with gurus and stokers are scrambling around opening up vents, letting there cookers run au-natural, but what does the guy with the "oven" do, in my book, he's S.O.L. unless he has his own generator.
Battery backup. They use so little power I can plug mine into the little battery jump start unit I bought at Cabela's. Only need the generator for the fridge and water system in the trailer. Well lights too.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
11-19-2009, 03:38 PM
please look at this discussion this way..if the rules say you can use it why not. its a personal choice. me I just like BBQ.

TN_BBQ
11-19-2009, 04:04 PM
Leather balls and wooden clubs, dodging sheep.



Where is the line? What is "authentic" Do you think any of the smokers being used today resemble the cooking tools of ages past?

For the record, I'm raising my own hog and whittling my spear as I type. Going to take the whittled wood and make my own charcoal, too :-D just as soon as my son gets back from the salt mine with our spices. :mrgreen:

Muzzlebrake
11-19-2009, 04:05 PM
thank miriam webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oven) for this
oven; a chamber used for baking, heating, or drying

Wikipedia says in part, "In the past, cooking ovens were fueled by wood or coal." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oven)

so I hate to tell you but your WSM's, Lang's, BWS, Stumps or any other chamber used for cooking is an oven. Like it or not we are a llusing an oven.

just because mine is cooler than yours, you don't need to start calling names and calling folks out. :biggrin:

I will gladly come by the @ next comp and talk up the virtues of the pellet cooker to you, I have lots of extra time now......:twisted:

Scottie
11-19-2009, 04:14 PM
Thank you Sean... Exactly my point....

KC_Bobby
11-19-2009, 04:26 PM
I wish someone would go to Dallas and bring our pellet oven back up to KS/MO/IA with them. My hands get dirty loading the charcoal oven up.

tmcmaster
11-19-2009, 04:41 PM
Good discussion... Thanks for the input... As for me, I do lump and stick, but that's because I can't afford anything else... :-P

ClayHill
11-19-2009, 05:16 PM
It doesn’t matter to me……. It’s a personal preference, as most have said, it’s not the cooker. All cookers have a learning curve to make good bbq………once you figure it out, all smokers/cookers are equal IMO.
There are no absolutes in bbq……that’s what makes it awesome

Double D's BBQ
11-19-2009, 05:41 PM
I vote for d. all of the above. Viva la difference!:-D

Coz
11-19-2009, 05:57 PM
Humor for the day.I dont remember where this came from if its yours take the credit

big brother smoke
11-19-2009, 06:11 PM
I have had crappy food from stick burners and pellet poopers. If you cannot cook on one you ain't going to be able to cook on the other type of cooker.

Now having said this, I prefer stickburners, but truly it is just a preference.

At comps, I could actually drink more with a pellet pooper.
Stick burners keep me from drinking excessively.

See both have their benefits!:-P

Butcher BBQ
11-19-2009, 06:40 PM
Humor for the day.I dont remember where this came from if its yours take the credit

That is great, I may have to steal that.:-D

monty3777
11-19-2009, 07:46 PM
I met Rod from Pellet Envy this year in Waterloo. He was cooking on an off-set. I asked him why he wasn't using his pellet cooker. He said, "I am. These are just bigger pellets!"

Coz
11-19-2009, 08:17 PM
That is great, I may have to steal that.:-D


I dont remember where it came.If you cant lift it from here I can email it.

Muzzlebrake
11-19-2009, 08:31 PM
I wish someone would go to Dallas and bring our pellet oven back up to KS/MO/IA with them. My hands get dirty loading the charcoal oven up.

thats the same one that has to get moved out to make room for a trailer with MASS plates isn't it?
:biggrin:

KC_Bobby
11-19-2009, 08:47 PM
No idea Sean. If it's holding something else up, I could come get it this weekend.

Bbq Bubba
11-19-2009, 09:22 PM
:cool:
Can't wail to get mine!

Jacked UP BBQ
11-19-2009, 09:43 PM
ok - here it is........once again......it is internal temps and a sauce contest.. it does not matter how the temp gets there. i use to be completely against pellet cookers until i got 7 hours sleep and won a gc with it. I personally like the food off of my spice better but I will always use the fe if I can lug it with me. The spice has won a gc also, so I'll stand by the sauce thing!!!

ique
11-19-2009, 09:49 PM
I think that some cooks that use stickburners would like to see fire control skills as part of the equation. All the top cooks I know that use pellet cookers could use pretty much anything and do good though. If you want to ban pellet cookers ya gotta do the same with guru controlled charcoal boxes. ie, Not going to happen.

BBQchef33
11-19-2009, 11:35 PM
I think that some cooks that use stickburners would like to see fire control skills as part of the equation. All the top cooks I know that use pellet cookers could use pretty much anything and do good though. If you want to ban pellet cookers ya gotta do the same with guru controlled charcoal boxes. ie, Not going to happen.



:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

From the mouth of The Jack 09 winner!!! Hats off to you chris! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

:cool:

BTW... agree.. 100%! IMO, Fire control should be part of a contest equation.. Its not the fuel source thats the issue, its the thermostat. IMO, any type of thermostatically controlled device or assist should be left home.


Like chris says, its not gonna happen, (but sure wish it would!)



(heres where someone brings up fear of technology, digging holes for the purist, leave the thermometers home, test pit temps by licking the steel, dont use tongs, flip meat with your toes, etc..)

Plowboy
11-19-2009, 11:50 PM
Pellet pits take ALL the fun out of BBQ competitions. If only I had a fire to tend to on Oct 2-3. Soooooo boring.









http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs218.snc1/8531_1125203214723_1366433322_30334762_8082577_n.j pg

tmcmaster
11-20-2009, 01:16 AM
I actually had a co-worker ask me (after reading this thread over my shoulder...) if using a pellet pooper was like using an aluminum bat in Major League Baseball... I didn't have an actual answer... :-P

TN_BBQ
11-20-2009, 06:15 AM
I actually had a co-worker ask me (after reading this thread over my shoulder...) if using a pellet pooper was like using an aluminum bat in Major League Baseball... I didn't have an actual answer... :-P

No, because it's not against the rules.

Baseball (like most things in life) change over time (baseball with wooden bats in 2009 hardly looks like Native American stickball centuries ago).

Best thing for those that oppose the rules is to either change the rules or learn to live with them (don't give yourself an ulcer)

Muzzlebrake
11-20-2009, 08:14 AM
No idea Sean. If it's holding something else up, I could come get it this weekend.

I could be confused, it's not that uncommon for me..........:-?:biggrin:

ThomEmery
11-20-2009, 08:26 AM
Pellet pits take ALL the fun out of BBQ competitions. If only I had a fire to tend to on Oct 2-3. Soooooo boring.









http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs218.snc1/8531_1125203214723_1366433322_30334762_8082577_n.j pg


LOL great shot

matthew burt
11-20-2009, 08:33 AM
your the man todd, and I dont care if you cook on your pellet oven if I can cook on my stumps oven.

Brauma
11-20-2009, 08:46 AM
Im just saying, if it's truly the cook and not the cooker, why are there rules regarding what type of cooker has to be used...burning wood in a thermostatically computer controlled pit with an electric auger takes a lot of the fun outta things in my book.
Comps have all sorts of things that go wrong, power can go down, people with gurus and stokers are scrambling around opening up vents, letting there cookers run au-natural, but what does the guy with the "oven" do, in my book, he's S.O.L. unless he has his own generator.

There's your answer. In my book, there's a difference between fun and competition. Fun is what I do in my backyard (entertaining and feeding friends); competition is serious business. Hence Scottie's post about making a bank deposit on Monday mornings. I know a lot of cooks swear competitions are fun but go over to their camp and try to cut up, pop a few beers and distract them at crunch time. You may get a Jaccard to the nose. It gets intense.

I've havent been competing that long but I've competed long enough to learn that:


Sleep is important at comps
my partner's WSM worked better than Bandera (at the comp)
the cooker wont win the comp - it's still up to the cook
but a nicer cooker makes life easier on the cook


This year we used BeerGuy's Traeger at comps. We loaded it up, set the digital temp display to 230* ...... and went to bed. :shock: (Dare I say it) Yes, it felt like cheating. :lol: But that's OK. We were more rested the next day and more focused while getting the Q just right and fixing the boxes. Again, it's competition not backyard cooking.

Rules are rules and I dont have a problem with them. I'll play within the rules with the equipment I can afford. If I had the funds and I made the decision to really get serious about competing I would buy TWO FEC's!!

All that said, I wouldnt trade my old trusty 'Dera for the world. It's still my favorite backyard smoker.

The Giggler
11-20-2009, 09:27 AM
If you're not digging a pit in the earth, and cooking over live coals in the open air - you're a PIKER. :mrgreen:

Scottie
11-20-2009, 09:51 AM
There's your answer. In my book, there's a difference between fun and competition. Fun is what I do in my backyard (entertaining and feeding friends); competition is serious business. Hence Scottie's post about making a bank deposit on Monday mornings. I know a lot of cooks swear competitions are fun but go over to their camp and try to cut up, pop a few beers and distract them at crunch time. You may get a Jaccard to the nose. It gets intense.


You can be a competitor and have fun too though. I know I always manage to find the "fun" at a contest.... But let's face it. He said something that was wrong and not coming from someone with experience. I get tired of folks coming on and making statements that they have no basis for doing. I don't consider the fact that someone doesn't think it shows what comp cooking is all about is a good enough reason. I cook under the rules. I've cooked on just about every kind of pit out there. It's almost insulting to me that folks think we cook on FE's because we don't know how to tend fires. Ridiculous.

The majority of my cooks, I am cooking on my own or with my 2 daughters. I don't have the luxury of having 5 guys on my team staying up all night. So maybe we should make that illegal? Level the playing field?

Lake Dogs
11-20-2009, 10:11 AM
:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

From the mouth of The Jack 09 winner!!! Hats off to you chris! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

:cool:

BTW... agree.. 100%! IMO, Fire control should be part of a contest equation.. Its not the fuel source thats the issue, its the thermostat. IMO, any type of thermostatically controlled device or assist should be left home.


Like chris says, its not gonna happen, (but sure wish it would!)



(heres where someone brings up fear of technology, digging holes for the purist, leave the thermometers home, test pit temps by licking the steel, dont use tongs, flip meat with your toes, etc..)

100% agreed. Love my Lang, and I mean LOVE IT. I do wish fire control
were more a part of it, and that includes the smoke that comes/goes with
fire... However, if it's not, I've probably got a Stumps or two in my
future... Dont know.... To me, personally, I enjoy staying up most of
the night and shift-sleeping when with a group of friends, drinking a
LITTLE, smoking a cigar or two...

BChawg
11-20-2009, 10:29 AM
The majority of my cooks, I am cooking on my own or with my 2 daughters. I don't have the luxury of having 5 guys on my team staying up all night. So maybe we should make that illegal? Level the playing field?


Scottie--Stick with the your Girls---Not certain the 5 guys is such a luxury, the guys always seem to trip over the Kooker on their way to the booze.

Clark

Jorge
11-20-2009, 11:39 AM
One of the best lines I've ever read came from a well known, and respected, cook in relation to the LP Que a couple of years ago. It went something like this..."I only regret that I won't have the opportunity to whoop your gas burning ass!".

I think that most of your better cooks have the same attitude. Bring what you want, and let the judges decide which cook has turned in the best product on any given day. There are no style points, or bonus points for sleep deprivation. Smokey D's didn't seem to be too handicapped cooking on WSMs this past weekend.

Merl
11-20-2009, 11:52 AM
One of the best lines I've ever read came from a well known, and respected, cook in relation to the LP Que a couple of years ago. It went something like this..."I only regret that I won't have the opportunity to whoop your gas burning ass!".

I think that most of your better cooks have the same attitude. Bring what you want, and let the judges decide which cook has turned in the best product on any given day. There are no style points, or bonus points for sleep deprivation. Smokey D's didn't seem to be too handicapped cooking on WSMs this past weekend.

What they say about you Jorge is correct.
You may not have much to say, but when you speak, everyone should listen.
Merl

Ford
11-20-2009, 12:19 PM
My old Klose would get up to 225- 240 with 15 lbs of lump and a couple of sticks. At that point it would cook for 6 hours before the temps started to drop. No adjusting vents, no adding wood. Get 5 hours good sleep. However when it started to drop it was because the fire was out and coals were dead. But if you added 2 sticks every 90 minutes then it would go forever at that temp and never change. What's the fire control in that.:?::?: Also burned nice and clean and had no more smoke taste than an FE.

Now my even older 24x6' need a little more attention but then it was less than 2 tons of steel instead of 3.5 tons of steel with an insulated firebox.

And any Jambo owners can chip in but I hear add a log every hour or so (can't remember exact time) and it also chugs along forever. Wheres' the fire control skill people talk about. I bet some Jambo owners get more sleep than a lot of pellet cooks. Just think how often you see Johnny or Mike during the night. And I have been setup next to them managing a fire all night and thought how cool it would be to have such a quality pit. Of course that was before the FE's.:biggrin:

And on an el cheapo offset pit with light steel and air gaps maybe you do need to be constantly managing the vents and wood. If you didn't have pellets to complain about you'd be jumping on the quality offsets as cheating.

And last comment. It's the cook. The tools help a good cook. better quality tool = better quality product. But if you can't cook then it doesn't matter how good the tool is.

Dale P
11-20-2009, 01:02 PM
We have 5 on our team most of the time and it can be a distraction. One guy wants to do this, one doesnt...
In the end, if Matt & I can stay sober and get the others drunk, we do better.:)

Just kidding of course.

Lake Dogs
11-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Pellet pits take ALL the fun out of BBQ competitions. If only I had a fire to tend to on Oct 2-3. Soooooo boring



http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs218.snc1/8531_1125203214723_1366433322_30334762_8082577_n.j pg


I heard a rumor that too much use of pellet cookers will make your
face get stuck in this position...

Well, at least you wont go blind!!!!

TN_BBQ
11-20-2009, 02:29 PM
One guy wants to do this, one doesnt...
Just kidding of course.

On our team, those guys get to do whatever they want between midnight and 6AM :-D

I pretty much want to be in charge at the prep table.

If/when they do want to pipe up with cooking strategies, I give them about 15 pieces of raw chicken and tell them to knock themselves out. Funny how about half an hour with nasty yard bird will cure most folks from voicing their opinion too loudly.

In the end, it's important for a team to work together.

monty3777
11-20-2009, 02:44 PM
My old Klose would get up to 225- 240 with 15 lbs of lump and a couple of sticks. At that point it would cook for 6 hours before the temps started to drop. No adjusting vents, no adding wood. Get 5 hours good sleep. However when it started to drop it was because the fire was out and coals were dead. But if you added 2 sticks every 90 minutes then it would go forever at that temp and never change. What's the fire control in that.:?::?: .

Wow, you could get your smoker to do that on a windy night when the temps dipped down into the 40s and on hot summer evenings when the wind was nonexistent? Or on a rainy day when the wind picks up, blows hard, then dies down? Come on!

The fact is that SOMETIMES operating a stickburner is real easy - and sometimes, especially when the weather is nasty, it takes real skill to maintain a temp.

Though I'm certanily not in the camp that believes that pellet cookers take no skill to operate, I would also not be willing to join the camp that believes there is no real skill in maintaining a constant temp in a stickburner. Let's be realistic, with the exception of $10,000 + units that are airtight and hooked up to Gurus, most off-sets take a lot skill to operate.

But from my experience the same can be said of pellet cookers. I watch my fellow competetors maintain their cookers as well - only a fool would simply plug in an FEC and then ignore it for 12+ hours. All this stuff takes real skill - which is why not everyone can make good competition BBQ (like me, for instance. My Q is pert near inedible).

Ford
11-20-2009, 02:56 PM
Wow, you could get your smoker to do that on a windy night when the temps dipped down into the 40s and on hot summer evenings when the wind was nonexistent? Or on a rainy day when the wind picks up, blows hard, then dies down? Come on! 3.5 tons of steel keeps things pretty steady. It did this in 0F temps with 15-20 mph winds and once up to temp hardly took any work and rain hardly has any impact other than creating a lot of steam. that's a fact.

Though I'm certanily not in the camp that believes that pellet cookers take no skill to operate, I would also not be willing to join the camp that believes there is no real skill in maintaining a constant temp in a stickburner. Let's be realistic, with the exception of $10,000 + a Klose like my big one today goes for around 18-20K didn't say it was cheap units that are airtight and hooked up to Gurus, most off-sets take a lot skill to operate. Most offsets are not built to Klose quality. actually no where near that quality.
my comments in red above. I stand by them. I never said I used to cook on cheap offsets and got this performance.

monty3777
11-20-2009, 03:22 PM
I get you, Ford. Makes sense when I rethink your post. I have an Horizon off-set that I am pretty much in love with and I also tend to forget that it may not be the best pit out there (especially because I paid what, to me, is a lot of $$$ for the thing). Once it is up to temp it can deal with almost any temp. variation - but getting it there on days when the weather gets in the way of building a good fire can be tough. Maybe a high dollar pit doesn't have those problems. For me and my pit, if there is too much wind it takes time to get a hot enough fire for a good clean burn and a good draw. Likewise, on a day with absolutely no wind it can be a challenge to get a good draw going because the fire needs a little extra attention. I think that's what I was addressing. I suppose I need to start saving my money for a better pit!! :)

Brauma
11-20-2009, 05:46 PM
My old Klose would get up to 225- 240 with 15 lbs of lump and a couple of sticks. At that point it would cook for 6 hours before the temps started to drop. No adjusting vents, no adding wood. Get 5 hours good sleep. However when it started to drop it was because the fire was out and coals were dead. But if you added 2 sticks every 90 minutes then it would go forever at that temp and never change.

This is why I want a Klose so friggin bad.

It's on the wish list for Santa again this year. We'll see what happens.

jagardn
11-20-2009, 10:29 PM
I'm gonna stick with my 1Kw Microwave. Meat will smoke if you keep it in there long enough.:eek:

MilitantSquatter
11-21-2009, 07:01 AM
Mod Note : Guys - the mods have scrubbed this thread and will continue to keep a close eye on this thread. It's fine to make your points but no need for direct challenges or negative comments etc. Please keep it civil.


Thanks for your help.

The_Kapn
11-23-2009, 05:35 PM
Interesting topic that comes up several times a year on every forum out there.
Always exciting.

I have competed with pure stick, charcoal/chunk, and now pellets.

I remember the thrill of keeping a fire in a Bandera going all night in 30 degree weather with 20 MPH winds.
Did I just call that a "thrill"? :oops:

I understand the position of the "purist" guys who want all the electronic gagetry banned.

This year, I witnessed the ultimate display of fire and heat control competition cooking using pure skill--no electronics and not even using a traditional stick or charcoal burning "smoker".

Imagine cooking all four comp meats in dutch ovens.
And then "walking" in several catagories!
His 2nd in Ribs, 5th in Brisket, and 7th Overall speak for themselves. :lol:

You might cry "fowl--how can that be legal"!!!
But they were cooked without oil and with only charcoal as the heat source.
Legal as can be, FBA and KCBS to the best of my knowledge.

This was done by Forrest at the annual FBA fun cook this last year.
Results are here:
http://www.flbbq.org/funcook.htm

Forrest says he will never do that again!
He moved 80# of briquets 2-4 times each, as individual briquets with tongs!
No sleep, no rest, never any down time overnight.
He is an "Iron Man" who needs little sleep--but he said he was "smack worn out" . :lol:
No temp probes--nothing but expertise and feel to control the cook.

Now, to me, that is the ultimate demonstration of the spirit of "pure--back to basics " BBQ cooking!
Not even a basic traditional "smoker" used--just one of the oldest cooking vessals still in current use.

That would be an interesting Comp if someone wants to put one together!

TIM

Ford
11-23-2009, 05:43 PM
Well Kapn there used to be a restaurant in Townsend TN that cooked on a pit made of cement blocks, expanded metal grid, cardboard sides and cover and a burn barrell. It made mighty good Q although it was real slow and low. Get up every hour or so and add coals as needed and pork took 18-24 hours. Pit was 4x8. Now that's ironman. He moved pieces of burning wood to the pit by small shovel then used a poker to position them.

SirPorkaLot
11-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Well Kapn there used to be a restaurant in Townsend TN that cooked on a pit made of cement blocks, expanded metal grid, cardboard sides and cover and a burn barrell. It made mighty good Q although it was real slow and low. Get up every hour or so and add coals as needed and pork took 18-24 hours. Pit was 4x8. Now that's ironman. He moved pieces of burning wood to the pit by small shovel then used a poker to position them.

I thought this is however one made Q? :mrgreen:

I entered my first comp. in the backyard division, and won 3rd place (1st & 2nd were caterers competing in the backyard) using a burn barrel, and loading an old offset every hour with coals from the burn barrel.

I use that set up for butt, brisket and chix, and enjoy the fire tending. I had a team beside with me with a stumps smoker shaking their heads at me while they went to sleep.

If i was a serious competitor i may would look at doing something differently, but I still want to continue cooking over/with live coals whatever I do.
It is part of the heritage of bbq, and something I enjoy. :-D

smoke-n-my-i's
11-25-2009, 07:32 PM
I think that most of your better cooks have the same attitude. Bring what you want, and let the judges decide which cook has turned in the best product on any given day. There are no style points, or bonus points for sleep deprivation.

How true.... I took my 2 trusty CharGrillers to Fl a couple of weeks ago. I competed against some very strong FBA teams, my first FBA competition. I guess the judges didn't like my ribs and chicken, but the pork and brisket made up for it. The pork took 10th and the brisket took 2nd, right behind Swamp Boys... So, my $179 CG's did me good. They are classified as stick burners and CG actually recommend burning sticks. I myself use lump, so am I a stick burner, or a coal burner???? I do add a few sticks and chunks for added smoke.... Do I get much sleep, no. I got a total of maybe 2 hrs at that comp... Am I against a pooper, well, not totally. In fact, I was talking to the wife on the way home, and told her if this kept up, I am seriously thinking of a different cooker so I can get some much needed sleep... So yes, there could possibly be a change in the cookers in the future sometime. But for now, the el cheapo CG's will keep on cooking....