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View Full Version : BOD Meeting Vote - What's Your Opinion?


Jeff_in_KC
11-11-2009, 11:05 PM
Chris Early, Early Bird BBQ, and I attended the BOD meeting in person tonight. Apparently two members were listening on the phone too.

This will of course be in the "Quick Notes" document but I wanted to get the feelings about this from you folks...

Apparently at an undisclosed contest, a rep announced to the crowd during the awards that he/she had seen the winning ancillary category entry and without asking the cook, publicly disclosed to the crowd what that entry was. This prompted an email to one board member from the winning team, angry that their entry had been disclosed.

There was a motion made by Carol Whitebook to (and I'm paraphrasing here) issue a rep advisory regarding not telling what a cook submits in an ancillary category unless the cook chooses to share. This motion was seconded by Ed Roith. Merl, Carol and Ed spoke in favor of this advisory. I cannot recall specifically who spoke against it. It seems some of the concern was that KCBS can't control what an organizer chooses to disclose in an ancillary category. Here was the vote:

Ed - Yes
Gene - Yes
Carol - Yes
Merl - Yes
Paul - No
Mike B. - No
Linda - No
Tana - No
Steve - No
Don - No

Motion failed.

OK so what do you think as cooks? Is this a "cooker friendly" decision? Is it minutia and more micromanagement? Does it matter? Do you want a rep to blurt out what you turned in if you had planned to keep it secret? Isn't this the same as telling other teams what your rib box looked like?

Personally, I think it's wrong. As a cook, I should be able to say what my entry was or I should be able to say "I'm sorry, I choose to keep that a secret". Of course KCBS can't stop the organizer from saying something in an ancillary category BUT my opinion is give the reps the advisory to keep out of it and not say anything themselves. This just seems to be sending the wrong message. What do you all think?

I think Chris took more notes than I did and he can go into other details. Everything else seemed pretty non-exciting. Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life... :roll: :lol:

CivilWarBBQ
11-12-2009, 02:34 AM
Needless micromanagement.

What's next, swear all the judges to secrecy and make them sign in blood? Nobody is giving out your recipe. When you submit an entry for judging, it becomes public knowledge that it exists. Duh.

The Board has better things to do than spending time on stupid little stuff like this.

drbbq
11-12-2009, 05:52 AM
Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life... :roll: :lol:

Might be a good place to start your mission to bring back respect to the board room.

HoDeDo
11-12-2009, 07:25 AM
I think once you hand that box in, it is there for all to see. Heck, many folks walk up their desserts with 2 people helping them carry it all, for example.

I know about the incident, and I know we hear people say "Chocolate cake, Rattlesnake Pie, etc". But there are also teams like D-Dons who continue to win even after they divulge thier own dessert name. There are thousands of recipes for cheesecakes, cobblers, etc. simply saying what it was doesnt give anyone an advantage. Do we know how many points (if there were any) between the top 3 places? multiple 180s or anything?

I agree that I would hope the board has better things to do than micromanage these ancillary catagories.

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 07:30 AM
D-Don's will even let you taste their desserts and still pull 180's.

Nothing can prevent someone in the judging tent from taking a picture and publishing it either. I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.

Alexa RnQ
11-12-2009, 07:41 AM
I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.

Not for the meat categories, surely?
One concern would be that once the door is opened for anything except self-publishing by the individual cook, "confusion" could come about and a meat presentation becomes fodder for open discussion/distribution.

Sure, lots of cooks self-publish. But as it stands, there is still a choice.

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 07:46 AM
Not for the meat categories, surely?
One concern would be that once the door is opened for anything except self-publishing by the individual cook, "confusion" could come about and a meat presentation becomes fodder for open discussion/distribution.

Sure, lots of cooks self-publish. But as it stands, there is still a choice.

There have been cameras in the judging tents. Usually not the judges, but mostly organizers, etc. Nothing that I know of to prevent that and a turn in box could show up in a "candid'.

Either prevent it, or have a release so everyone knows whats up.

Skip
11-12-2009, 08:05 AM
Chris Early, Early Bird BBQ, and I attended the BOD meeting in person tonight. Apparently two members were listening on the phone too.

This will of course be in the "Quick Notes" document but I wanted to get the feelings about this from you folks...

Apparently at an undisclosed contest, a rep announced to the crowd during the awards that he/she had seen the winning ancillary category entry and without asking the cook, publicly disclosed to the crowd what that entry was. This prompted an email to one board member from the winning team, angry that their entry had been disclosed.

There was a motion made by Carol Whitebook to (and I'm paraphrasing here) issue a rep advisory regarding not telling what a cook submits in an ancillary category unless the cook chooses to share. This motion was seconded by Ed Roith. Merl, Carol and Ed spoke in favor of this advisory. I cannot recall specifically who spoke against it. It seems some of the concern was that KCBS can't control what an organizer chooses to disclose in an ancillary category. Here was the vote:

Ed - Yes
Gene - Yes
Carol - Yes
Merl - Yes
Paul - No
Mike B. - No
Linda - No
Tana - No
Steve - No
Don - No

Motion failed.

OK so what do you think as cooks? Is this a "cooker friendly" decision? Is it minutia and more micromanagement? Does it matter? Do you want a rep to blurt out what you turned in if you had planned to keep it secret? Isn't this the same as telling other teams what your rib box looked like?

Personally, I think it's wrong. As a cook, I should be able to say what my entry was or I should be able to say "I'm sorry, I choose to keep that a secret". Of course KCBS can't stop the organizer from saying something in an ancillary category BUT my opinion is give the reps the advisory to keep out of it and not say anything themselves. This just seems to be sending the wrong message. What do you all think?

I think Chris took more notes than I did and he can go into other details. Everything else seemed pretty non-exciting. Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life... :roll: :lol:

Am I reading this right. A rep said what it was and the board argued that they can't be responsible for what an organizer says? Apples and oranges no?

I have to disagree here though. What someone does in an open category should be theirs to reveal. We know what the main four are but there is a lot of variety in the ancillary categories. I don't think they should announce it without consent from the winner. As ridiculous as it may sound to some it is still that persons/teams choice to allow. Normally they are brought on stage and asked what they made. This puts them on the spot enough and most announce what they made anyway.

G$
11-12-2009, 08:07 AM
Is this thread about the meat categories, the anciliaries, or both?

If it is about anciliaries, I'll just say that it never even ocurred to me that entries would NOT be disclosed. In fact, personal recollection of my experience says they almost always are, but my memory could be failing.

Describing what was turned in for an ancilliary is not the same as describing how a turn in was prepared, whether it is meat or "anything but". Personal opinion only here.

arlieque
11-12-2009, 08:09 AM
D-Don's will even let you taste their desserts and still pull 180's.

Nothing can prevent someone in the judging tent from taking a picture and publishing it either. I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.

I have that in my app but it is for media purposes only and I dont allow any judges to take photos nor do I think it is allowed in any contests. Sometimes a newspaper will take one but I also ask that they dont focus on the numbers.

Arlie

drbbq
11-12-2009, 08:29 AM
I asked if I could take pics of the anything but while judging the Jack and was told no.

I don't think the rep should ever grandstand like that even if there's a release. The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.

Jeff_in_KC
11-12-2009, 08:31 AM
I asked if I could take pics of the anything but while judging the Jack and was told no.

I don't think the rep should ever grandstand like that even if there's a release. The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.

That's exactly what my thought was, Ray.

Scottie
11-12-2009, 08:34 AM
I don't agree with releasing anything of ours without our (cooks) consent. All I have to say is when will it stop? IWill they be allowed to publish a picture of our meat, with a full explanation of the taste, texture and any unique qualities?

The Bullsheet and BBQ News published photos from inside the judging tent at Felda. It had a very unique entry in the photo (meat, not dessert) and I do not think that was fair. That cook lost his 'advantage' that he had on the rest of us cooks.

Not fair and I am keeping notes of who votes AGAINST us cooks. Oh, I am sure we will have a couple come on here and try to defend themselves yet again. Too bad.

timzcardz
11-12-2009, 08:40 AM
The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.

Very well stated, and I agree.

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 08:47 AM
I don't agree with releasing anything of our without our (cooks) consent. All I have to say is when will it stop? Have a picture of our meat, with a full explanation of the taste, texture and any unique qualities?

The Bullsheet and BBQ News published photos from inside the judging tent at Felda. It had a very unique entry in the photo (meat, not dessert) and I do not think that was fair. That cook lost his 'advantage' that he had on the rest of us cooks.

Not fair and I am keeping notes of who votes AGAINST us cooks. Oh, I am sure we will have a couple come on here and try to defend themselves yet again. Too bad.

I agree. I have a picture of all the Butt to Butt entries for this year taken from inside the tent during judging. It was published. Definitely some interesting things to be seen in that pic. I can, obviously pick out my entry, but I can also pick out another team as the only one not using parsley. Not an official KCBS event, but...

We kind of have two topics going here with the photos and the descriptions of the ancillary. They sort of go together under one main topic, but sorry Jeff if we've hyjacked your original topic.

Jeff_in_KC
11-12-2009, 09:00 AM
I agree. I have a picture of all the Butt to Butt entries for this year taken from inside the tent during judging. It was published. Definitely some interesting things to be seen in that pic. I can, obviously pick out my entry, but I can also pick out another team as the only one not using parsley. Not an official KCBS event, but...

We kind of have two topics going here with the photos and the descriptions of the ancillary. They sort of go together under one main topic, but sorry Jeff if we've hyjacked your original topic.

No problem, Todd... this is fine. I'm taking notice of all the opinions on this. You might think "it's just an ancillary category" but my inital thought was like Scottie said... "where does it stop?"

Diva
11-12-2009, 09:25 AM
It's an ancillary category. That's what the topic refers to. It doesn't count, who REALLY cares? It's not like they gave out the recipe or anything. As if judges don't go around and talk in depth, about the fabulous desserts that were at their table?

Jack Daniels, prime example. I don't know why they wouldn't let Ray take any pictures. They have bleachers set up for people to watch the judging of ALL categories. Don't you think there were some telephoto lenses hooked to some of those cameras?

Don't we have bigger fish to fry???

Vince RnQ
11-12-2009, 09:27 AM
I asked if I could take pics of the anything but while judging the Jack and was told no.

I don't think the rep should ever grandstand like that even if there's a release. The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.


Well said, Ray.

ique
11-12-2009, 09:58 AM
I agree. I have a picture of all the Butt to Butt entries for this year taken from inside the tent during judging. It was published. Definitely some interesting things to be seen in that pic. I can, obviously pick out my entry, but I can also pick out another team as the only one not using parsley. Not an official KCBS event, but...

We kind of have two topics going here with the photos and the descriptions of the ancillary. They sort of go together under one main topic, but sorry Jeff if we've hyjacked your original topic.

Where can I find the butt-to-butt and Felda pics? :lol:

Scottie
11-12-2009, 10:22 AM
Where can I find the butt-to-butt and Felda pics? :lol:


I still have your Jack chicken picture... It's on my office wall, next to the Felda and Butt-to-butt pictures....

ique
11-12-2009, 10:27 AM
I still have your Jack chicken picture... It's on my office wall, next to the Felda and Butt-to-butt pictures....

Our 1st Place Chefs Choice at the Jack from a couple years ago runs in the picture rotation on the KCBS site... I dont remember anyone asking my permission! :roll:

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 10:28 AM
It's an ancillary category. That's what the topic refers to. It doesn't count, who REALLY cares? It's not like they gave out the recipe or anything. As if judges don't go around and talk in depth, about the fabulous desserts that were at their table?

Jack Daniels, prime example. I don't know why they wouldn't let Ray take any pictures. They have bleachers set up for people to watch the judging of ALL categories. Don't you think there were some telephoto lenses hooked to some of those cameras?

Don't we have bigger fish to fry???

Well, I was planning to do fried fish for my next AB entry. Thanks for blowing that for me. :biggrin:

Diva
11-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Well, I was planning to do fried fish for my next AB entry. Thanks for blowing that for me. :biggrin:

I think you should practice at home first and have your friends come over to help you tweak anything that needs to be tweaked.... :roll:

Scottie
11-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Our 1st Place Chefs Choice at the Jack from a couple years ago runs in the picture rotation on the KCBS site... I dont remember anyone asking my permission! :roll:


Thanks for that info! I forgot that I also have the one that ISS!!! did from 2 years ago...

Man, I should start a book... Make a ton of money and you guys get stiffed... That's how we roll.....

drbbq
11-12-2009, 10:45 AM
I don't know why they wouldn't let Ray take any pictures. They have bleachers set up for people to watch the judging of ALL categories. Don't you think there were some telephoto lenses hooked to some of those cameras?


I'm pretty sure that many of the other judges took pics of everything without asking and it wasn't mentioned in the judges meeting. It just seemed right to ask. My TC asked the rep for me and he said no. The rep and I aren't very close so that might have had something to do with it.

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm pretty sure that many of the other judges took pics of everything without asking and it wasn't mentioned in the judges meeting. It just seemed right to ask. My TC asked the rep for me and he said no. The rep and I aren't very close so that might have had something to do with it.

Michael still loves you, so you have one friend at least. :wink:

drbbq
11-12-2009, 11:18 AM
Michael still loves you, so you have one friend at least. :wink:

That's the only friend I need!

Muzzlebrake
11-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Jeff, I'm following along with you and Ray that this is probably not really the rep's place to be announcing what was turned in. My question is, wouldn't that be the type of thing that should be handled in committee? I don't know what the procedures for issuing a rep advisory is, but I would think that as committee chair, Carol should be able to forward a note to reps to remind them of what their duties are and are not.

I think that telling the crowd what was turned in doesn't hurt anyone anymore than advertising your sponsors products. I can see how organizers would want to tell people what it was that won their contest. I don't think its the reps place to tell the public, but I could see how KCBS might want that information in a post comp report from the rep.

Jeff Hughes
11-12-2009, 12:26 PM
It's an ancillary category. That's what the topic refers to. It doesn't count, who REALLY cares? It's not like they gave out the recipe or anything. As if judges don't go around and talk in depth, about the fabulous desserts that were at their table?


In this particular case, a world class cook cared. He was pretty pissed.

I saw the dish go on the cooker, I saw it turned in. I could not reproduce it if you asked me to. The cook is a friend of mine, and he would not tell me(which was totally cool with me). I could not have told you what it was until the rep announced it.

I clearly don't care, I always share my dessert or anything butt leftovers with my friends.

At this comp the rep was announcing the awards, but whether it's the rep or an organizer, asking the cook would seem to be better form. That's what they did at ABA last week, that's what they do at Emporia and Laurie.

Respecting the wishes of the cook seems like a good idea.

Merl
11-12-2009, 01:17 PM
I do not think that as a Rep I should have the privilege of describing your turn in box in the four meat categories or any other to a judge, another cook or anyone. Now I am at liberty to take notes of a cooks and without any recourse tell or publish what a cook does. I think it should be proprietary to the cook. Let the cook share if he desires. This allows a KCBS contest rep to be in charge. I guess the price of cooking classes may go down, just ask the rep about a specific cook's turn in's.

But the Board said is ok. That is the rule of the Board. And therefore I will support what the board said.

I hope that Brethren will finally pay attention to who is looking out for the cooks and who does not.

Merl

Merl
11-12-2009, 01:25 PM
It's an ancillary category. That's what the topic refers to. It doesn't count, who REALLY cares? It's not like they gave out the recipe or anything. As if judges don't go around and talk in depth, about the fabulous desserts that were at their table?

Jack Daniels, prime example. I don't know why they wouldn't let Ray take any pictures. They have bleachers set up for people to watch the judging of ALL categories. Don't you think there were some telephoto lenses hooked to some of those cameras?

Don't we have bigger fish to fry???

This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!

Scottie
11-12-2009, 01:31 PM
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!


Merl, if KCBS has rules on not taking photos and such. How is it that pictures were posted from KCBS contests in the Bullsheet?

I don't get that?

motoeric
11-12-2009, 01:45 PM
Here is my perspective as an organizer:

I happen to have the privilege of working with some excellent Reps at the Battle of the BBQ Brethren. They have been VERY proactive about photos, only making limited exceptions for media or the events own promotional use.

As an organizer, I wouldn't have a problem overruling a Rep as long as my decision doesn't break the rules of the KCBS. So, while I wouldn't give carte blanche taking photos throughout the judging (as that would be against KCBS rules, as I understand them); I wouldn't have a problem saying NO photos are allowed (as the KCBS certainly has no ability to force an organizer to allow photos).

If teams expressed a concern to me (the cooks meeting would be a good time) about photos, it would definitely be something that I would address.

If this isn't something that the KCBS will assert control of, and it is a concern, ask the organizer to take action.

Eric

HoDeDo
11-12-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm not all about the photo thing. Lots of folks know what my boxes look like, but i only broadcast photos of some of them; and I control it. Saying what someone turned in for an ancilary catagory, and showing pics of the main 4 catagory entries at entries are two different things.

Again, knowing I made cheesecake, or key lime pie, should not effect my advantage -- showing a pic of my turn-in, could. Interesting topic. I know several of the events I attended include a statement about all pictures/likenesses/ etc. being thier property for any promotion, etc they would like to do. So potentially - that organizer could put up a slideshow of entries (wouldnt have names or anything on them) that someone could see and go "oh, that is a nice box"... but I have only seen that happen a couple times. And unless you recognized that entry, you would not know who you were shiggin' or how it scored.

Interesting topic here...

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 03:09 PM
This allows a KCBS contest rep to be in charge. I guess the price of cooking classes may go down, just ask the rep about a specific cook's turn in's.


Merl, I'll come see you about 20 minutes after turn ins at Buckeye this weekend. :wink: I'll bring a pencil and something to write on. Any chance I could get you to wear a spy cam?

Jacked UP BBQ
11-12-2009, 03:23 PM
Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!

Diva
11-12-2009, 03:25 PM
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!

What? I'm not gonna bite.....

Plowboy
11-12-2009, 03:26 PM
Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!

It was my Schweaty Balls.

NotleyQue
11-12-2009, 03:29 PM
I have that in my app but it is for media purposes only and I dont allow any judges to take photos nor do I think it is allowed in any contests. Sometimes a newspaper will take one but I also ask that they dont focus on the numbers.

Arlie

Really.....so its ok for an organizer to take photos, but not a judge.

Skip
11-12-2009, 03:32 PM
Hey I found the announcement and they even gave the recipe!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNYXgV7L-c

Jeff Hughes
11-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!

It is a very big deal if the cook thinks it is...

He's a great cook, a great friend, and has all the credentials...

Ancillary category or not, he makes his money cooking, and should not have his secrets broadcasted if he does does not want to....

CivilWarBBQ
11-12-2009, 06:47 PM
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!

I'm going to call you on this one for putting a spin on the facts. The Board did no such thing. The fact is that the decision was not to add yet another rule to the already burgeoning book Reps have to follow. There was no advisory issued "saying it is permissible" as you implied.

I for one would rather have KCBS Reps that have the flexibility to use common sense and make decisions on the fly rather than try to turn them into Rule Lawyers who spend their time looking up regulations in a thick book. Yes, there is the potential for bad calls to be made when every possible occurrence is not anticipated and controlled by written policy, but that's why we have the Board to provide oversight and clarification as needed. If there are bad Reps who repeatedly make mistakes, the solution is not to attempt to hedge them in with rules, but rather to put a mechanism in place to remove Reps.

We have many qualified folks who are waiting for new Rep positions to open, and a fair number of Reps who are not being invited back to contests (a sure sign of dissatisfaction from the organizer). Stagnation of the Rep pool is not a good thing, and we should look at finding ways to eliminate it IMO.

arlieque
11-12-2009, 08:25 PM
I'm going to call you on this one for putting a spin on the facts. The Board did no such thing. The fact is that the decision was not to add yet another rule to the already burgeoning book Reps have to follow. There was no advisory issued "saying it is permissible" as you implied.

I for one would rather have KCBS Reps that have the flexibility to use common sense and make decisions on the fly rather than try to turn them into Rule Lawyers who spend their time looking up regulations in a thick book. Yes, there is the potential for bad calls to be made when every possible occurrence is not anticipated and controlled by written policy, but that's why we have the Board to provide oversight and clarification as needed. If there are bad Reps who repeatedly make mistakes, the solution is not to attempt to hedge them in with rules, but rather to put a mechanism in place to remove Reps.

We have many qualified folks who are waiting for new Rep positions to open, and a fair number of Reps who are not being invited back to contests (a sure sign of dissatisfaction from the organizer). Stagnation of the Rep pool is not a good thing, and we should look at finding ways to eliminate it IMO.


So if I read you right you would kick out bad reps. What if a rep has made many mistakes over this summer, do you feel they need to be eliminated or re trained?

Jeff Hughes
11-12-2009, 09:35 PM
Hey Jeff S,

You have picked up more than a few votes based on this thread, congrats...

All my best--JH

CivilWarBBQ
11-12-2009, 09:50 PM
So if I read you right you would kick out bad reps. What if a rep has made many mistakes over this summer, do you feel they need to be eliminated or re trained?

Since I am not a Rep and don't know the inner workings of the job I'm not qualified to say. At first blush I would be inclined to think some sort of review committee would handle this. In my mind, it's not so much how the system would work, but rather that there IS a system to weed out the chaff. Right now a bad Rep is just recirculated to new contests each year, only to be thrown back again when the organizers of last year's contests don't ask them back. As long as they don't commit some gross error that causes enough furor to merit BoD attention they can continue to bump along under the radar indefinitely.

I guess it just seems crazy to me that there are some really great, qualified folks who would love to become Reps who are frozen out, yet I see contests from some regions reaching farther and farther away for Reps because they are dissatisfied with who is available in their area.

arlieque
11-12-2009, 10:32 PM
I guess it just seems crazy to me that there are some really great, qualified folks who would love to become Reps who are frozen out, yet I see contests from some regions reaching farther and farther away for Reps because they are dissatisfied with who is available in their area.[/QUOTE]

That there just isnt true, I fly reps in because I believe in them and they do a good job for me. There are good and bad reps in your area as well as mine, you have to decide who you want. The KCBS office seems to have been pushing a couple of reps hard last year. One made many mistakes.

Thanks

ThomEmery
11-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Yea That one aint the one you fly in :)

CivilWarBBQ
11-13-2009, 01:42 AM
That there just isnt true, I fly reps in because I believe in them and they do a good job for me. There are good and bad reps in your area as well as mine, you have to decide who you want. The KCBS office seems to have been pushing a couple of reps hard last year. One made many mistakes.

Thanks

That's exactly my point Arlie. Of course we all have favorite Reps, and if you can afford to fly people in and they don't mind the travel time then good for you. What I'm talking about is areas where you have contests changing reps every year as they shuffle through the deck looking for a good one.

And even if we had 100% perfect Reps in the pool today, eventually attrition will leave the organization facing a shortage of experienced people. Perhaps if a certain number of interested people were allowed into the training program regardless of contest demand. As cooks we compete against each other, as organizers we compete to get team signups, perhaps a bit of competition between Reps would inspire higher performance overall?

Dunno, I'm just spitballing there, but my main point is having a mechanism for keeping the quality of the Rep pool high would be A Good Thing.

arlieque
11-13-2009, 06:36 AM
The way to fix that is training. Organizers need to plan on getting the info to gain the best reps they can even if they have to fly them in. I have given reps a chance, some didnt show up till so late on Friday they just did make the extra categories. They since have been kicked out.

I am not saying I have the best reps, that would not necessary not be true but we work well together. That is why teams often ask who the rep is too, maybe not coming to the contest if you have a certain rep? I have been ask about one rep so much I could never use them for all the mistakes they have made and yes they are from your area as well as mine! Some reps just dont want to follow the rules. I know one rep that still can not use the PC and has been a rep for many years letting the other rep carry them. You would be surprised if you knew who it was!

ThomEmery
11-13-2009, 07:56 AM
Having the best Reps will add teams to your contest
We have all seen that happen

Jeff_in_KC
11-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Hey Jeff S,

You have picked up more than a few votes based on this thread, congrats...

All my best--JH

Jeff, it's just a matter of respecting cooks. While it may not be important to some, it is to others and should be taken seriously.

Diva
11-13-2009, 01:09 PM
Jeff, it's just a matter of respecting cooks. While it may not be important to some, it is to others and should be taken seriously.

And the beauty of the deal is that's the way you have always been.

I find it funny how some people come out of the woodwork around election time telling everybody how "they too look out for the cooks"....my arse.

Scottie
11-13-2009, 01:15 PM
And the beauty of the deal is that's the way you have always been.

I find it funny how some people come out of the woodwork around election time telling everybody how "they too look out for the cooks"....my arse.


Exactly...

Arse? :roll:

And I agree about Jeff.

Diva
11-13-2009, 01:31 PM
Exactly...

Arse? :roll:

And I agree about Jeff.

I was trying to be polite and courteous of others.... MY ASS! lol!

Jeff_in_KC
11-13-2009, 01:34 PM
Arse? :roll:

:lol: Yeah, I was gonna say "Who are you and what have you done with Steph?" :lol: :twisted:

Scottie
11-13-2009, 01:36 PM
I was trying to be polite and courteous of others.... MY ASS! lol!


Why start now??!!!!! :icon_shy Of course I am just harassing Steph.... As I would prefer Steph to speak out more often. She is like Charles Schwab in my book....

I do agree how we get folks coming out of the woodwork at election time. About what a great friend they are to the cookers... But they never vote that way.

Bunny
11-15-2009, 03:49 PM
I do not think that as a Rep I should have the privilege of describing your turn in box in the four meat categories or any other to a judge, another cook or anyone. Now I am at liberty to take notes of a cooks and without any recourse tell or publish what a cook does. I think it should be proprietary to the cook. Let the cook share if he desires. This allows a KCBS contest rep to be in charge. I guess the price of cooking classes may go down, just ask the rep about a specific cook's turn in's.

But the Board said is ok. That is the rule of the Board. And therefore I will support what the board said.

I hope that Brethren will finally pay attention to who is looking out for the cooks and who does not.

Merl

Whoa...wait a minute here. Rich and I have been watching this thread and we finally have to speak up. First of all, why would you or a rep even say that you could or woud do that?! At any given contest, it is always up to the cook to disclose his/her box contents. We, as reps, hardly ever take control of the ceremonies anyway.

But my most serious inquiry here is what do you mean, "just ask a rep about a specific cook's turn-in?" When repping, we seldom have time to "check out" anyone's entry. We are WAY too busy with entering scores and making sure judges are being fair. To actually stop and check out a specific cook's turn in is usually when it is a DQ! We don't have time to check out the competition as a cooker! That's not why we're there. I am angry that you even suggested reps do that. Maybe some do, but it is totally bad form to even suggest ALL of us do that! :mad:

Rich and Bunny Tuttle
KCass BBQ Team established 1987
KCBS Contest Reps
CBJ Instructors

MilitantSquatter
11-15-2009, 04:10 PM
Whoa...wait a minute here. Rich and I have been watching this thread and we finally have to speak up. First of all, why would you or a rep even say that you could or woud do that?! At any given contest, it is always up to the cook to disclose his/her box contents. We, as reps, hardly ever take control of the ceremonies anyway.

But my most serious inquiry here is what do you mean, "just ask a rep about a specific cook's turn-in?" When repping, we seldom have time to "check out" anyone's entry. We are WAY too busy with entering scores and making sure judges are being fair. To actually stop and check out a specific cook's turn in is usually when it is a DQ! We don't have time to check out the competition as a cooker! That's not why we're there. I am angry that you even suggested reps do that. Maybe some do, but it is totally bad form to even suggest ALL of us do that! :mad:

Rich and Bunny Tuttle
KCass BBQ Team established 1987
KCBS Contest Reps
CBJ Instructors

I may be wrong, but I didn't interpret Merl's post the way you did.. To me, It seems you both are actually in agreement as Merl appeared to just be stating that the current decision would technically allow it (although not make it right or not what he agrees with).

butt head
11-15-2009, 04:53 PM
I may be wrong, but I didn't interpret Merl's post the way you did.. To me, It seems you both are actually in agreement as Merl appeared to just be stating that the current decision would technically allow it (although not make it right or not what he agrees with).
somebody on kcbs board misinterpret somethink:eek:

LindaM
11-15-2009, 04:56 PM
Jeff, I'm following along with you and Ray that this is probably not really the rep's place to be announcing what was turned in. My question is, wouldn't that be the type of thing that should be handled in committee? I don't know what the procedures for issuing a rep advisory is, but I would think that as committee chair, Carol should be able to forward a note to reps to remind them of what their duties are and are not.

I think that telling the crowd what was turned in doesn't hurt anyone anymore than advertising your sponsors products. I can see how organizers would want to tell people what it was that won their contest. I don't think its the reps place to tell the public, but I could see how KCBS might want that information in a post comp report from the rep.

Sean,

You are correct. The rep would be contacted and reminded this is not proper. It is not for the board to take action on it. Reps need to act responsibly and most do. It is not necessary for many un-needed advisories. And yes I am defending my vote for that reason.

Diva
11-15-2009, 05:21 PM
Sean,

You are correct. The rep would be contacted and reminded this is not proper. It is not for the board to take action on it. Reps need to act responsibly and most do. It is not necessary for many un-needed advisories. And yes I am defending my vote for that reason.

I'll have to admit...I was REAL surprised to see that you and Don voted a different way from the other three.

Bunny
11-15-2009, 05:36 PM
I may be wrong, but I didn't interpret Merl's post the way you did.. To me, It seems you both are actually in agreement as Merl appeared to just be stating that the current decision would technically allow it (although not make it right or not what he agrees with).

No, What I'm not agreeing with is Merl insinuating that reps follow the cook's entries. That was not a very good statement on his part. That's what made me angry as a rep. Most reps respect the entries as they are turned in and to even suggest that we FOLLOW an entry is insulting to our duties. I would hope that cookers understand that reps don't do that. What Merl said instigated that. Like I said, "Bad form" for KCBS representation.

Jeff_in_KC
11-15-2009, 06:35 PM
Linda, how do Rep advisories get posted if it doesn't come from the board?

Merl
11-15-2009, 07:10 PM
No, What I'm not agreeing with is Merl insinuating that reps follow the cook's entries. That was not a very good statement on his part. That's what made me angry as a rep. Most reps respect the entries as they are turned in and to even suggest that we FOLLOW an entry is insulting to our duties. I would hope that cookers understand that reps don't do that. What Merl said instigated that. Like I said, "Bad form" for KCBS representation.

Bunny come on now. I did not insinuate or say any of the above. I don't think anyone else was "angry". Lets discuss the issue and not try to make it about Merl.
Merl

arlieque
11-15-2009, 07:16 PM
Lets start by saying reps are human and they do make mistakes, either on the PC, saying something on the internet and or in person to someone. We all make mistakes, right Bunny????

What has to happen here is we all come together as a team of reps, BOD, judges and cooks. That is what makes KCBS ....................

Arlie

Bunny
11-15-2009, 08:14 PM
Bunny come on now. I did not insinuate or say any of the above. I don't think anyone else was "angry". Lets discuss the issue and not try to make it about Merl.
Merl

I wasn't making it about Merl, Merl. I was standing up for reps. And you insinuated it when you said that the cookng schools will have to charge less knowing that reps can give info about the entries. Anyway, that's the way I read it. If I'm wrong, then fine. But that's the way I read it and I'm sure others did, too.

Why was it funny when HoDeDO said he wanted you to wear a spy cam?:-? I know that we have fun on the forum, but this wasn't funny to me. It made us feel that we do something that we don't. That's all.

Bunny
11-15-2009, 08:16 PM
I wasn't making it about Merl, Merl. I was standing up for reps. And you insinuated it when you said that the cookng schools will have to charge less knowing that reps can give info about the entries. Anyway, that's the way I read it. If I'm wrong, then fine. But that's the way I read it and I'm sure others did, too.

Why was it funny when HoDeDO said he wanted you to wear a spy cam?:-? I know that we have fun on the forum, but this wasn't funny to me. It made us feel that we do something that we don't. That's all.

Excuse me, HODEDO, I meant Plowboy's comment.

Jeff Hughes
11-15-2009, 09:45 PM
No, What I'm not agreeing with is Merl insinuating that reps follow the cook's entries. That was not a very good statement on his part. That's what made me angry as a rep. Most reps respect the entries as they are turned in and to even suggest that we FOLLOW an entry is insulting to our duties. I would hope that cookers understand that reps don't do that. What Merl said instigated that. Like I said, "Bad form" for KCBS representation.

Bunny,

I took Merl's post as completely tongue in cheek, I think Todd did too...

He probably should not have commented given recent history, but I can't imagine that anyone took that post seriously...

Regards--Jeff

Bunny
11-15-2009, 09:47 PM
Linda, how do Rep advisories get posted if it doesn't come from the board?

Jeff,

Rep Advisories have to come from the Board and is sent to the Rep Site where all reps are notified.

Bunny

Divemaster
11-18-2009, 09:24 AM
I could be wrong, but I really think that there are a number of topics floating in this tread.

First of all the fact that a Rep used poor judgment in announcing the contents of the winning ďABí category. Being a relatively new competition cook, 2 years and still learning, Iíve got to believe that Ray is right. My feeling is that the Reps are the all important ĎRefereeí. They are the ones making the tough judgment calls on the legality of a box. They are the unsung heroes that sit behind screens (ok, they do come out into the sunlight every now and then) and make sure that it is a level playing field for us cooks. They should not be the announcers of the awards. That is for the organizers, the Reps are the officials.

Next we have the question if the BOD should have even spent time listening to the issue, and if that answer is yes, if there needs to be an advisory sent out to all reps regarding the issue. To be honest, Iím surprised that there is not a committee headed up by a BOD member to deal with issues like this. Iím not saying that this committee should be all powerful but rather it should deal with the more mundane issues and bring to the BOD items of more substance. As for whether an advisory needed to be sent out, no, I donít feel that we need anything that serious. Just a reminder of what a Reps job is (please see item one).

Next, we have the issue of photography in the judging tent. While I would love to get a complete set of photos of each winning box ever turned in (Iím just kidding, really, well kinda). I would also be really pissed if I had a presentation that was doing well and now everyone else now had a photo of it. I would also not be happy if pron of my boxes showed up on the KCBS site or in a news paper without my permission. I guess my feeling is that there should be NO photography in the judging tent, none at all. If the media want photos of turn-in boxes they should approach a team directly.

Finally, we have the question on whether or not the Reps should be reviewed, re-trained, and/or removed, basically, HR for Reps. To be honest, I donít know what is being done now. My gut sayís yes, they should be reviewed again by the committee described above but where it goes from there, I really donít know.

If Iím way out of line or misunderstood the issues, Iíll apologize now.

CivilWarBBQ
11-18-2009, 04:34 PM
I would also be really pissed if I had a presentation that was doing well and now everyone else now had a photo of it. I would also not be happy if pron of my boxes showed up on the KCBS site or in a news paper without my permission. I guess my feeling is that there should be NO photography in the judging tent, none at all. If the media want photos of turn-in boxes they should approach a team directly.

I understand your sentiments here, but the fact is that KCBS rules explicitly permit photography by the press in the judging tent, and you probably have given permission for said pictures to be published. Every contest application I've ever filled out has a clause that states you are giving permission to organizers to use any and all images they collect at the event for promotional purposes.

Now the usage by KCBS of such photos is a gray area, and I would hope that the folks in charge of publications would be sensitive to the wishes of any teams involved.

Diva Q
11-18-2009, 05:09 PM
This year we were blessed to receive 2 - 180s on both occasions we were asked to tell what we had made (by the organizers and NOT the reps) at the awards ceremony. Once was for an AB and the other Dessert. I always give vague answers because I don't want to give out what we do. At one of the comps a picture was taken of me and the 180 entry. It was posted and subsequently I had a conversation with the organizer to take it down. He understood my concerns. He took it down. Thats all it took was a conversation.

goodsmokebbq
11-19-2009, 08:21 AM
This year we were blessed to receive 2 - 180s on both occasions we were asked to tell what we had made (by the organizers and NOT the reps) at the awards ceremony. Once was for an AB and the other Dessert. I always give vague answers because I don't want to give out what we do. At one of the comps a picture was taken of me and the 180 entry. It was posted and subsequently I had a conversation with the organizer to take it down. He understood my concerns. He took it down. Thats all it took was a conversation.


Diva, we all know what it is anyways :-P:-D.

Pig Headed
11-19-2009, 02:56 PM
I personally dont care if it's announced what is turned in for a AB category. As has been said before, if a "Chocolate Cheesecake" is announced, there are probably many recipes for chocolate cheesecakes. At one competition this year, when the they announced the awards in AB, most said what they turned in. When the winner wouldn't say what was turned in, I actually heard some "BOOS" from the crowd. That was a big surprise to me. I guess I'm on the side of it should be the organizer asking or announcing, not the rep.