PDA

View Full Version : Paul Kirk


motoeric
11-04-2009, 11:45 PM
As time permits, I'm going to go through as many of the minutes as I have and list the amount of times that committee chairs that are up for reelection have filed reports at the monthly meetings.

Reporting on your committees actions or inaction isn't the end all and be all of their contributions, but I do find it telling. I would appreciate input from those more in the know about why someones activity doesn't mean they should get your vote or why their inactivity doesn't mean that you should exclude them.

According to the 20 different BoD meeting minutes that I went over from 2007 to current, Paul Kirk has had a committee report for his committee (education) 4 times. He has had no report 15 times. One copy of the minutes was inconclusive.

No reports:
April 08
Jan 09
March 08
April 09
May 09
May 08
June 09
July 09
August 09
September 09
September 08
Nov 07
Nov 08
Dec 08
Aug 07


Report:
2/25/09
3/11/09
04/07
10/08

Inconclusive:
Dec. 07


I hope that this is helpful to others as it was a pain in the *ss to go through.

Eric

Jeff_in_KC
11-05-2009, 12:42 AM
I am a big fan of education and it is vitally important to the future growth of KCBS. I've stressed the importance of seeing ANY some sign of activity on committees for a long time now and this even surprises me...

Jeff_in_KC
11-05-2009, 08:07 AM
"any some sign"? :roll::lol: Guess I was up way too late last night! Hate it when the edit button is gone.

timzcardz
11-05-2009, 08:49 AM
I find it interesting that there is virtually nothing to report on education, because that's not what they tell the IRS.

From KCBS 2008 990 form:

http://www.cal-lector.com/Brethren/KCBS2008990-1.JPG


Note that above they refer to "Statement 8" for what the primary exempt purpose is.

http://www.cal-lector.com/Brethren/KCBS2008990-2.JPG


With education being one of the two stated purposes for the exempt status, I would think that there should be something of substance to report regularly.

I would think that it would be imporant to do so to maintain documented substantiation of the fulfillment of the prupose of its oroganization's tax exempt status, but then what do I know?

ThomEmery
11-05-2009, 09:02 AM
Yes any, yea even some sign of activity a good thing

Scottie
11-05-2009, 09:22 AM
Has anyone checked for a pulse?

While you were compiling these stats, I don't suppose you did them for everyone? I'd like to see those numbers...

Thank you for doing this. I've often contemplated it and figured... Nah...

Squeeze
11-05-2009, 09:37 AM
Has anyone checked for a pulse?

While you were compiling these stats, I don't suppose you did them for everyone? I'd like to see those numbers...

Thank you for doing this. I've often contemplated it and figured... Nah...

I agree...I think it is important to be able to cast an educated ballot. If the incumbents are not doing anything, why should they stay in, but on the other hand, if they have been a positively contributing director leading the way, then they should stay. I hope this is done with all of the directors seeking re-election. Thank you.

-Kevin

JD McGee
11-05-2009, 10:01 AM
Just a thought here...

Wouldn't classes taught by folks like Paul be considered "educational". I'm sure his schedule and curriculum are public knowledge...

...or am I way off the topic base?

Just curious...

JD

Scottie
11-05-2009, 10:12 AM
Sure they are educational. They are also profit driven... I mean, unless The Baron of BBQ is donating all of his profits back to the KCBS... I sure wouldn't hold my breath on that.... :eek:

monty3777
11-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Obviously "no report" does not equal "no work done on behalf of KCBS." Certainly it might, but Paul deserves the benefit of deeper investigation before he is summarily dismissed as a lazy good for nothing. That goes for all the other members of the Board.

Skip
11-05-2009, 01:21 PM
I think we need to see the others. We see this as a horrible record but others may be worse. I also question how much of a litmus test this actually is for the leadership. Is there a benchmark that we could follow? I guess what I am asking is "What exactly am I looking at and how does it bode for the person its attached to?"

Slamdunkpro
11-05-2009, 03:52 PM
Just a thought here...

Wouldn't classes taught by folks like Paul be considered "educational". I'm sure his schedule and curriculum are public knowledge...

...or am I way off the topic base?

Just curious...

JD

I suspect that KCBS catagorizes CBJ classes as education.

Skip
11-05-2009, 03:59 PM
I suspect that KCBS catagorizes CBJ classes as education.


If you notice post #4 they seem to seperate education and judging classes.

motoeric
11-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Obviously "no report" does not equal "no work done on behalf of KCBS." Certainly it might, but Paul deserves the benefit of deeper investigation before he is summarily dismissed as a lazy good for nothing. That goes for all the other members of the Board.

I have no idea where this is coming from. I don't think that anyone has suggested anything of the kind.

I'm hoping that their reporting is one tool amongst many that we can use to help educate ourselves on who should be voted for.

Eric

Plowboy
11-05-2009, 04:26 PM
Just a thought here...

Wouldn't classes taught by folks like Paul be considered "educational". I'm sure his schedule and curriculum are public knowledge...

...or am I way off the topic base?

Just curious...

JD

Sure they are educational. They are also profit driven... I mean, unless The Baron of BBQ is donating all of his profits back to the KCBS... I sure wouldn't hold my breath on that.... :eek:

This year, Paul made a motion that anyone who writes for the Bullsheet should get free advertising for their cooking classes.

A motion was approved for KCBS end the practice of putting cooking classes in the Bullsheet and on the web, without a charge, to be effective April 1, 2009.

Rod Gray, abstain
Gene Goycochea, yes
Don Harwell, yes
Paul Kirk, abstain
Wayne Lohman, no
Linda Mullane, yes
Steve Ownby, no
Ed Roith, no
Tana Shupe, no
Carol Whitebook yes
Merl Whitebook yes
5 yes, 4 no 2 abstentions, the motion passes.


From Agenda: Motion by Paul Kirk: I am proposing a motion that Board of Directors and members that contribute articles to the Bull Sheet on a regular basis receive their family dues free for their services and use the services of the Bull sheet as in listing classes for their contributions to such publications.

From Board meeting: The Board stayed the charging an advertising fee for posting of cooking classes until the editorial and publication policy is completed.

Jeff_in_KC
11-05-2009, 08:37 PM
Putting on judging classes is education, yes, but we've known for years that we're putting on CBJ classes. Question is, what NEW things have been brought to the table? What NEW ideas do we have to promote barbeque and educate both the general public AND our members? We should expect more than just judging classes, which I would be surprised if it even falls under education.

monty3777
11-05-2009, 08:48 PM
This year, Paul made a motion that anyone who writes for the Bullsheet should get free advertising for their cooking classes.

wow :eek:

Jeff_in_KC
11-12-2009, 12:06 AM
Add no report for November, 2009.

arlieque
11-12-2009, 12:19 AM
You got that info faster than I......haha so tell us whatelse happen?

Jeff_in_KC
11-12-2009, 12:22 AM
You got that info faster than I......haha so tell us whatelse happen?

Wasn't much exciting except for the ancillary non-disclosure thing (see my new thread). I will post another thread as well because it doesn't apply here.

drbbq
11-12-2009, 07:03 AM
I wonder who else is on Paul's "Committee"?

ThomEmery
11-12-2009, 08:53 AM
Maybe the CookBook publisher

motoeric
12-28-2009, 05:33 PM
I just checked and there was no report for Dec.

I've tried to be dispassionate, but what does Paul actually do?

Let me be perfectly clear in that I am ONLY commenting on his activities on the board. He may be the greatest guy in the world in 'real life'. He may be gregarious, friendly, generous and an all around nice guy, but what on earth is he doing as a board member?

Eric

tmcmaster
12-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Thanks... an informed elctorate is always welcomed.

ThomEmery
12-28-2009, 07:25 PM
I just checked and there was no report for Dec.

I've tried to be dispassionate, but what does Paul actually do?

Let me be perfectly clear in that I am ONLY commenting on his activities on the board. He may be the greatest guy in the world in 'real life'. He may be gregarious, friendly, generous and an all around nice guy, but what on earth is he doing as a board member?

Eric

What does he do?
It would seem taking advantage of his position on the BoD for personal profit would be one thing he has done.

Jeff_in_KC
12-28-2009, 07:37 PM
And they tell me odds are all three imcumbents are a cinch to be re-elected. I simply ask... why? Members complain and complain about the way things are - about what's done and what isn't being done yet they'll re-elect those who aren't doing their jobs. I hope this is the year people say "Enough already!"

Candy Sue
12-28-2009, 08:29 PM
Amen! Most voters are Judges, because most members are judges. People vote for familiar names, Paul's been around in BBQ forever. After all, he is a Charter Member of KCBS.

ThomEmery
12-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Unfortunately you both are right

JD McGee
12-28-2009, 08:52 PM
There are many people I admire in the BBQ world and having taken Paul's cooking class and chatting with him I would have to say that he is one of them. That said...if he (or anyone else) is taking advantage of situations on name alone...and not actually contributing to the problem solving (whatever that may be in the KCBS circles) then I think he/she/they should not be re-elected. :cool:

Sledneck
12-28-2009, 09:27 PM
I dont see what his record of no report has anything to do with his actions as a board member? As far as I can tell its just a special comittee, if anything just have him removed from that duty. His actions and voting on matters of the board is what counts. Also his knowledge and experience make him a great asset to the KCBS BOD

Jeff_in_KC
12-28-2009, 09:32 PM
JD, I agree with you on Paul. I am sure he is a top notch guy and without a doubt he is a great ambassador for barbeque but that doesn't make him a great director. Doesn't mean he can lead. If you are good at being an ambassador for barbeque, do that as your contribution and let someone else serve as a director.

MilitantSquatter
12-28-2009, 10:01 PM
I dont see what his record of no report has anything to do with his actions as a board member? As far as I can tell its just a special comittee, if anything just have him removed from that duty. His actions and voting on matters of the board is what counts. Also his knowledge and experience make him a great asset to the KCBS BOD

Sled brings up a fair point.. While he may not do much as far as the committee goes (not sure if committee chair is a required job function or not), his voting record counts equally to the others. Most have little insight to his participation (or lack thereof) during discussions so it's hard to see the other side some are aware of, aside from the lack of committee reports.

Candy Sue noted that most members are judges and vote for names they are familiar with. I believe that. Judges have less at stake based on BOD objectives to get too involved in politics. Most judges are members because they just like BBQ and the hobby. Increasing membership is good only if you are willing to support the majority of the membership first... otherwise there's little in it for them to care who is running beyond who they are familiar with.. Maybe Paul represents the the avg. member and if cross representation is desired that might not be a bad thing.. KCBS is a sanctioning body for contests and teams are critical, but it should be more than that per the mission statement... I just don't see that today. It's too competition-centric. Nothing wrong with it, but trying to be a big contest org making $$$$ and trying to remain true to roots and retain culture are hard to do simulateously.. KCBS needs to figure out what it wants to be.


Thom - Can you expand on the profiting on his position ? Does this have to do with his BBQ classes ?

Jeff_in_KC
12-28-2009, 10:28 PM
Vinny, yes, being a chair of an assigned committee is required of all directors. It is without a doubt vital work, without which we get no new ideas to develop and if not utilized to its potential, it cuts out involvement from the membership because the committee is made up of members the director selects to join his or her committee.

motoeric
12-28-2009, 11:44 PM
I dont see what his record of no report has anything to do with his actions as a board member? As far as I can tell its just a special comittee, if anything just have him removed from that duty. His actions and voting on matters of the board is what counts. Also his knowledge and experience make him a great asset to the KCBS BOD

This is going to start sounding like I have something against Paul Kirk, which is unfortunate because I don't. I've never met the man and wouldn't know him if I bumped into him on the street.

I agree that his voting record is important. I would suggest that anyone who is planning to vote should see if his record is in accord with your priorities.

His actions, however, are a mystery to me. I would assume that his largest responsibility when it comes to 'actions' would be to lead the education committee and foster its growth and effectiveness. I would also assume that we can use his actions (or inaction) there as an indicator for success taking action elsewhere.

I sent him an email asking about his committee report record. I'll post his reply if I receive one.

Eric

JD McGee
12-29-2009, 02:03 AM
JD, I agree with you on Paul. I am sure he is a top notch guy and without a doubt he is a great ambassador for barbeque but that doesn't make him a great director. Doesn't mean he can lead. If you are good at being an ambassador for barbeque, do that as your contribution and let someone else serve as a director.

Well said Jeff. I do not know personally what Paul has or has not done...only input I get is here-say and what I read on the forums. I want to vote for the right person that will keep moving our sport/hobby forward in the best light possible. :cool: From all indications I believe that person is you...you have my vote sir.

We have a similar situation here with the PNWBA...there are a few positions open and I have voted for the people that I believe will actually DO something other than complain about it...and if they don't I'll vote against them or perhaps RUN against them next time. Talk is cheap! :-P

drbbq
12-29-2009, 07:29 AM
Vinny, yes, being a chair of an assigned committee is required of all directors. It is without a doubt vital work, without which we get no new ideas to develop and if not utilized to its potential, it cuts out involvement from the membership because the committee is made up of members the director selects to join his or her committee.

In the case of the eduction committee I believe it's important to support our non-profit status. I'm sure someone here knows Paul well enough to ask him to join us and respond. Seems only fair if there's going to be a whole thread about him. I'd really like to know who else is on his committee and what they've done this year.

Bigdog
12-29-2009, 08:05 AM
In the case of the eduction committee I believe it's important to support our non-profit status. I'm sure someone here knows Paul well enough to ask him to join us and respond. Seems only fair if there's going to be a whole thread about him. I'd really like to know who else is on his committee and what they've done this year.

Good points Ray. Unfortunately, I don't believe that I have ever seen Paul on this board. Would love to have him join us here for some discussion. There are always at least 2 sides to every story so I would like to hear his side. Otherwise we are just talking behind his back and that is not a good deal and not what this forum is all about.

ThomEmery
12-29-2009, 09:21 AM
Thom - Can you expand on the profiting on his position ?
Does this have to do with his BBQ classes ?

Not the classes

The revised KCBS Cookbook

drbbq
12-30-2009, 08:41 AM
January 2008 I was cooking here in Lakeland and I approached Carolyn about writing a new KCBS Cookbook together. I told her I'd gather the recipes and write the book if she'd be responsible for the "History of KCBS". I told her I'd just completed The NFL Gameday Cookbook and thought we were in great position to get a good book deal, but I wanted her to like the idea or I wouldn't bother pursuing it. She said she did like the idea and wanted to pursue it. So I was going to be in KC for the banquet a couple weeks later and would attend the board meeting to present the idea. I was put on the agenda by Carolyn and I went to the meeting in a conference room at some hotel and presented my idea.

As the board was discussing it Paul Kirk spoke up that the board didn't know it but he and the other people involved in the first KCBS Cookbook had already been working on a new KCBS Cookbook, but that work had stopped when Gary Wells got sick. (Gary had been deceased for a while at this time). My presentation continued with a little Q&A and we all left on good terms. After a couple weeks I hadn't heard anything so I called Carolyn and she told me that she was just too busy to do the project but maybe we could revisit it at a later date. Next I heard there was a new KCBS Cookbook deal and Carolyn, Ardie Davis, and Paul Kirk were doing it.

Coincidence? You decide but my arse was very sore. Please remember this story when the new KCBS Cookbook gets here and if you have a copy of my NFL book compare the two.

Mods, I can vouch for all of this first hand.

ThomEmery
12-30-2009, 08:51 AM
Bingo

drbbq
12-30-2009, 08:55 AM
BTW Merl was in the room and I'm pretty sure Linda was as well. They're both friends and I understand if they don't want to comment on what happened, but they both know the truth.

Plowboy
12-30-2009, 10:22 AM
BTW Merl was in the room and I'm pretty sure Linda was as well. They're both friends and I understand if they don't want to comment on what happened, but they both know the truth.

This was the same board meeting where the now infamous "BOD Nepotism" policy first was presented.

Myself, KC Bobby, Roo, and Bride of Roo were all in attendance at that meeting.

Ray's presentation was more of a "giving back" to KCBS. Other than expenses, I don't recall him wanting to make any real money off of this.

For anyone who has uttered the phrase "good ol' boys" in reference to the KCBS BOD... remember Ray's story.

Plowboy
12-30-2009, 10:31 AM
Does anyone know Paul's affiliation to the CATS program which seems to be his only education project?

<Rumor Alert> I had heard that there was a personal or even family relationship in there. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but would like to know.

drbbq
12-30-2009, 10:45 AM
I requested half of the advance and suggested Carolyn get the other half with KCBS getting any royalties after the advance was earned out. I learned that night that there had been a substantial sum recently paid to someone to gather the history of KCBS info and that was requested to be paid back first and I think we all agreed on that because we could have used the info.
It would have been a decent payday for me but I would have done way more than my share of the work. It would have been an excellent deal for everyone involved and my agent was chomping at the bit to take the proposal to the open market.

motoeric
12-30-2009, 04:40 PM
As a heads up, I emailed Paul two days ago regarding the election and his reporting as a committee head. I haven't heard back. I'm not going to read too much into that due to the holidays. I'll post his response if I get it.

Eric

LindaM
12-30-2009, 05:50 PM
BTW Merl was in the room and I'm pretty sure Linda was as well. They're both friends and I understand if they don't want to comment on what happened, but they both know the truth.

Ray,

No denying. I thought your book deal was great for KCBS. It was a shock when Paul brought his deal to the table. Enough said. Hope to see you in January.

drbbq
12-30-2009, 06:39 PM
Thanks Linda.
I'm staying home this year. I've just been kicked in the nuts too many times to care anymore.

BBQ Grail
12-30-2009, 06:57 PM
Thanks Linda.
I'm staying home this year. I've just been kicked in the nuts too many times to care anymore.

Look I don't chime in much on the KCBS because I decided not to renew my membership. If this election goes a little better I will consider rejoining.

But Ray's comment is systematic of a bad situation. No one who is a member of a an organization, especially one like the KCBS should ever be made to feel they were kicked in the nuts.

This comment isn't directed towards anyone board member but more towards the whole organizations governing methods and processes. I've seen this time and time again when the member of leadership begin to think they know more than the membership and care more about themselves than the membership.

Please do not think I'm pointing fingers at individuals because I'm not. I don't know enough about the situation to do that. I've been involved in youth organizations for years. And I know when the board members forget that "it's about the kids" things get messed up.

In this case it appears, from where I'm sitting, the Board has forgotten that it's "about the BBQuers."

Okay...I'm going back into hiding. I really want a change so I feel like my money isn't wasted when I pay my dues. But then again I can get a Restauarant Depot memberhship now...

Jeff_in_KC
12-30-2009, 07:01 PM
As a heads up, I emailed Paul two days ago regarding the election and his reporting as a committee head. I haven't heard back. I'm not going to read too much into that due to the holidays. I'll post his response if I get it.

Eric

Read into it what you will. Paul wants to be re-elected so why not be available? This is just as much the election season as it is the holiday season for nine of us. All my emails come to my phone so I know within minutes that I have them and can respond. Why not Paul?

txschutte
12-30-2009, 10:39 PM
Look I don't chime in much on the KCBS because I decided not to renew my membership. If this election goes a little better I will consider rejoining.

But Ray's comment is systematic of a bad situation. No one who is a member of a an organization, especially one like the KCBS should ever be made to feel they were kicked in the nuts.

This comment isn't directed towards anyone board member but more towards the whole organizations governing methods and processes. I've seen this time and time again when the member of leadership begin to think they know more than the membership and care more about themselves than the membership.

Please do not think I'm pointing fingers at individuals because I'm not. I don't know enough about the situation to do that. I've been involved in youth organizations for years. And I know when the board members forget that "it's about the kids" things get messed up.

In this case it appears, from where I'm sitting, the Board has forgotten that it's "about the BBQuers."

Okay...I'm going back into hiding. I really want a change so I feel like my money isn't wasted when I pay my dues. But then again I can get a Restauarant Depot memberhship now...
Well said, Larry.

I just want a KCBS that is less like a soap opera, and more of an organization of people promoting the art of BBQ. And not the promotion of ONE guys BBQ.

Podge
12-30-2009, 10:42 PM
The only reason i rejoined is for the restaraunt depot membership.

Scottie
12-31-2009, 12:56 AM
The only reason i rejoined is for the restaraunt depot membership.

Heck bud... I can get you a card on my membership.. :)

BBQchef33
12-31-2009, 01:59 AM
I just want a KCBS that is less like a soap opera, and more of an organization of people promoting the art of BBQ. And not the promotion of ONE guys BBQ.


:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

Dustaway
12-31-2009, 09:03 AM
:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap


amen

monty3777
12-31-2009, 08:38 PM
January 2008 I was cooking here in Lakeland and I approached Carolyn about writing a new KCBS Cookbook together. I told her I'd gather the recipes and write the book if she'd be responsible for the "History of KCBS". I told her I'd just completed The NFL Gameday Cookbook and thought we were in great position to get a good book deal, but I wanted her to like the idea or I wouldn't bother pursuing it. She said she did like the idea and wanted to pursue it. So I was going to be in KC for the banquet a couple weeks later and would attend the board meeting to present the idea. I was put on the agenda by Carolyn and I went to the meeting in a conference room at some hotel and presented my idea.

As the board was discussing it Paul Kirk spoke up that the board didn't know it but he and the other people involved in the first KCBS Cookbook had already been working on a new KCBS Cookbook, but that work had stopped when Gary Wells got sick. (Gary had been deceased for a while at this time). My presentation continued with a little Q&A and we all left on good terms. After a couple weeks I hadn't heard anything so I called Carolyn and she told me that she was just too busy to do the project but maybe we could revisit it at a later date. Next I heard there was a new KCBS Cookbook deal and Carolyn, Ardie Davis, and Paul Kirk were doing it.

Coincidence? You decide but my arse was very sore. Please remember this story when the new KCBS Cookbook gets here and if you have a copy of my NFL book compare the two.

Mods, I can vouch for all of this first hand.

Unbelievable. :eek: How, in Cliff's name, did the KCBS BoD manage to let this deal slip through their fingers? Not knocking the guy, and I have 2 of his books, but how in the world would anyone think a book authored by Paul Kirk could get the audience that Dr. BBQ can get? This is criminal - and I know I'm prone to hyperbole and BS - but I mean this is bad, if true. And from Linda's remarks, it looks like it is. Crying @$$ shame!

ThomEmery
12-31-2009, 09:25 PM
There is more
But I will not share third hand info
That I can not verify

butt head
01-01-2010, 05:51 PM
this is why my wife is a member(membership came with cbj class) and i am not. i don't play stupid games