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chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 07:58 AM
I've happened to notice that teams entering into competitions can also hold officer positions within the organizations that sanction and organize the BBQ comps.

Does anyone see this as a conflict of interest when cash prizes are present?

ThomEmery
10-28-2009, 07:59 AM
No it is not

Bbq Bubba
10-28-2009, 08:05 AM
Nope.

Jeff_in_KC
10-28-2009, 08:19 AM
No. The Board has no influence on how individual contests are scored. The purpose of the Board is to make decisions that show vision and support the future of the organization, not to be involved in minutia or day to day events such as what goes on at a contest.

roksmith
10-28-2009, 08:34 AM
big DITTO.

You need to have some BBQ folks on the boards putting on these things to make sure things are done right.

..and I can't see NOT participating in a local event.. especially if I've worked had to help put it together.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 08:39 AM
Would your opinion's change if that team wins the majority of the events?

Sledneck
10-28-2009, 08:41 AM
Would your opinion's change if that team wins the majority of the events?
A recently departed BOD was just that and nobody seemed to have a problem with it

Jacked UP BBQ
10-28-2009, 08:43 AM
If you believe in the system and it is truly blind judging, I don't care if the president of the US competes

Lake Dogs
10-28-2009, 08:43 AM
Like asking if the officer of a corporation, say Coca Cola as an example, has a
conflict of interest if he were to drink Coke regularly...

No, no conflict whatsoever. Conflict would be if the BBQ Cook were to be judging
the same competition that he's entered. THAT would be a conflict.

My opinion would be exactly the same if they won 80% of the competitions in
the entire United States.

For that matter, if not represented by team(s), who would be on the board? For
what it's worth, other non-BBQ sanctioning bodies, CASI for example, are made up
100% of competition cooks....

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 09:00 AM
If it's not blind judging, is it a conflict? What is stopping judges from talking to a board member before a contest? People may not view that as a conflict, but if that board member is a contestant it seems like a problem.

Blind judging is very loosely defined. The turn-in boxes have teams names on them when the volunteers take it from you. Teams also have a signature presentation that works for them. That reason alone can make the presentation easily identifiable to a certain team.

Sledneck
10-28-2009, 09:03 AM
If it's not blind judging, is it a conflict? What is stopping judges from talking to a board member before a contest? People may not view that as a conflict, but if that board member is a contestant it seems like a problem.

Blind judging is very loosely defined. The turn-in boxes have teams names on them when the volunteers take it from you. Teams also have a signature presentation that works for them. That reason alone can make the presentation easily identifiable to a certain team.
We have a cattle call to introduce yourself here. :rolleyes:

BBQchef33
10-28-2009, 09:31 AM
If it's not blind judging, is it a conflict? What is stopping judges from talking to a board member before a contest? People may not view that as a conflict, but if that board member is a contestant it seems like a problem.

Blind judging is very loosely defined. The turn-in boxes have teams names on them when the volunteers take it from you. Teams also have a signature presentation that works for them. That reason alone can make the presentation easily identifiable to a certain team.

If never seen a turn-in box with a team name on it.. just a number.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 09:51 AM
I was visiting a comp. a few weeks back here in FL and I noticed the team's boxes had a label that not only included the team name but a number as well. I am thinking about putting together a team, but I question some of the rules. After all, from what I can tell, it can cost a pretty penny to enter some of the cash prize comps.

Skip
10-28-2009, 10:02 AM
If it's not blind judging, is it a conflict? What is stopping judges from talking to a board member before a contest? People may not view that as a conflict, but if that board member is a contestant it seems like a problem.

Blind judging is very loosely defined. The turn-in boxes have teams names on them when the volunteers take it from you. Teams also have a signature presentation that works for them. That reason alone can make the presentation easily identifiable to a certain team.


Judges fraternizing with contestants on turn in day is a big no-no. In fact I know of situations where judges have been asked to leave due to excessive time spent on a competators site. Now if the judge passes a site and keeps their distance yet says hello and the normal greetings that is fine.

Blind judging is far from loosely defined. The KCBS reps do a great job of assuring no one gets an unfair advantage. Teams are assigned turn in boxes with numbers not names and these numbers are covered with a new number before they go to the judges.

Each team has a way they like to build their box that is true but also realize how many are copied as well. I know of a few chicken boxes that are exactly the same in presentation. Do I know who's hit the table? No. If the box is so clearly defined then it will be DQ'ed for marking.

Is there a possibility that a judge will find themselves on a table with food from a friend of theirs......Yes it is possible. Is it possible that they will then be able to identify it? Yes that is possible too. Is it possible that the judge will then compromise their integrity and judge up on the submission. Yes that is possible too. But the probability of all those things coming together on any given saturday or sunday and improbable. All that is running through my mind is "...on the fourth of July, in a hailstorm, with one black eye and one baby zebra." Its a stretch to even consider let alone think its grounds for a change in protocol.

Bbq Bubba
10-28-2009, 10:04 AM
I believe you were at a non sanctioned backyard comp?

Skip
10-28-2009, 10:04 AM
I was visiting a comp. a few weeks back here in FL and I noticed the team's boxes had a label that not only included the team name but a number as well. I am thinking about putting together a team, but I question some of the rules. After all, from what I can tell, it can cost a pretty penny to enter some of the cash prize comps.


It is possible that the name you saw was there because the team missed the cooks meeting and the rep put a name on it to make sure it made it to that team. It probably wasn't on all four or more just one to make sure it went to the right place or wasn't clean up as extra.

RobKC
10-28-2009, 10:05 AM
I was visiting a comp. a few weeks back here in FL and I noticed the team's boxes had a label that not only included the team name but a number as well. I am thinking about putting together a team, but I question some of the rules. After all, from what I can tell, it can cost a pretty penny to enter some of the cash prize comps.

I've never seen a team name on a box. Was that a FBA contest you visited? I don't think there's been a KCBS contest in FL during Sept/Oct.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 10:15 AM
It was an FBA sanctioned event in Mulberry, FL both pro and amateur. I went there early on a Saturday to get a feel for what teams do. I walked around, ate my face off and observed. That's when I noticed that the turn-in boxes had the team's names printed on the stickers attached to the box.

Jorge
10-28-2009, 10:20 AM
I'm pretty confident that there would be more than a few cooks pitching a fit if they thought there was something shady going.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 10:24 AM
To answer Skip's question. I was standing near the turn-in tables as all the teams were coming up turning in their boxes and all of them had the label with the team names and a number on a white sticker label on top.

Skip
10-28-2009, 10:50 AM
To answer Skip's question. I was standing near the turn-in tables as all the teams were coming up turning in their boxes and all of them had the label with the team names and a number on a white sticker label on top.


Ack. Thats not normal nor would i be pleased with that. In fact I think I would tear it off before anyone had a chance to see it. Thanks for clarifying

SmokeInDaEye
10-28-2009, 11:12 AM
If never seen a turn-in box with a team name on it.. just a number.

And I've never seen a contest with a team's name on it. Oh, wait. I did. Never mind.

(chain yank mod)

The_Kapn
10-28-2009, 11:24 AM
Heres the deal in the FBA

There have been couple of guys sjpeculating that Rub, Forrest, etc are winning because the reps/judges are cheating for them.

Simply not so.

#1.
We are blessed with board members who are active and talented cooks also.
Let me use Rub as an example since he is the defending and current TOTY leader and the FBA president.
Rub goes to the Jack this year and takes 1st place pork and 1st place brisket.
In 2008 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins the Open and takes 3rd in the Invite.
In 2007 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins 3rd in the Invite and 4th in the Open
He is always among the top at KCBS contests.
I'll betcha none of the judges or reps were impressed with his FBA office. :lol:

#2.
As to the name on the boxes--yes there is a sticker with team name and number on each box.
That is so the REPS can distrubute them accurately.
At the turn-in table that sticker is removed and one put on that only has a new number, no name. This is not the same number as the origonal one on the box.
The reps then assure that each team goes onto different tables for each catagory, as long as there are 4 or more tables.
It is quite a process and was demonstrated to us at the Lake City contest.

Yes it costs a ton of money to compete.

No, the judging is not rigged.

Hope this helps.

TIM

Jorge
10-28-2009, 11:28 AM
I'd say that's a pretty definitive answer. Thanks Tim!

pigmaker23
10-28-2009, 11:37 AM
No it just means they have it dialed in, there is absolutely no correlation between the two.

Would your opinion's change if that team wins the majority of the events?

Bbq Bubba
10-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Thanks for the insight Tim!

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the info Tim. I like to understand stuff before I jump into it! Maybe this coming year I can put a team together and start competing in the amateur division.

pigmaker23
10-28-2009, 11:42 AM
Swamp Boys did'nt win Brisket, The Info Merl Presented was incorrect, suprise, suprise...


There have been couple of guys sjpeculating that Rub, Forrest, etc are winning because the reps/judges are cheating for them.

Simply not so.

#1.
We are blessed with board members who are active and talented cooks also.
Let me use Rub as an example since he is the defending and current TOTY leader and the FBA president.
Rub goes to the Jack this year and takes 1st place pork and 1st place brisket.
In 2008 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins the Open and takes 3rd in the Invite.
In 2007 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins 3rd in the Invite and 4th in the Open
He is always among the top at KCBS contests.
I'll betcha none of the judges or reps were impressed with his FBA office. :lol:

#2.
As to the name on the boxes--yes there is a sticker with team name and number on each box.
That is so the REPS can distrubute them accurately.
At the turn-in table that sticker is removed and one put on that only has a new number, no name. This is not the same number as the origonal one on the box.
The reps then assure that each team goes onto different tables for each catagory, as long as there are 4 or more tables.
It is quite a process and was demonstrated to us at the Lake City contest.

Yes it costs a ton of money to compete.

No, the judging is not rigged.

Hope this helps.

TIM

Bbq Bubba
10-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Who won that brisket trophy? :) :)

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 11:48 AM
I disagree with just about everyone here. I think that officials, organizers and sponsors should be barred from competing in contests that they have duties other than being a competitor.
I don't care what contest/raffle/sweepstakes whatever you "compete" in you usually will find wording such as " Employees of company X, its contest sponsor, advertising and promotional agencies and their respective affiliates and associates and such employees' immediate family members and persons with whom such employees are domiciled are excluded from this contest. ".
Its standard language in just about all contests, why is ours different? Would we allow Tony Stewart to be on the board of NASCAR or A-Rod be allowed to hold an office in the American League office? I don't think so.
If all of the things that everyone has said about any anonymity holds true why is there a rule about the judges staying away from teams? if the blind judging serves to keep sponsors, directors and organizers anonymous, why doesn't it work for the team a judge had breakfast with?

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Let me use Rub as an example since he is the defending and current TOTY leader and the FBA president.
Rub goes to the Jack this year and takes 1st place pork and 1st place brisket.
In 2008 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins the Open and takes 3rd in the Invite.
In 2007 he goes to the Best of the Best in Douglas and wins 3rd in the Invite and 4th in the Open
He is always among the top at KCBS contests.
I'll betcha none of the judges or reps were impressed with his FBA office. :lol:


The Jack, KCBS and The Best Of The Best are not FBA contests, so there is no conflict of interest.
The president of an organization winning TOY would raise eyebrows in just about every competitive arena.
I am not doubting anyones integrity or ability but I think if you are looking at it objectively you can see how there amy be a conflict of interest. Hell take it one step beyond and look at your employment agreement at work, most large companies prohibit their employees from working in the same field while they are employed. Do you think that the NFL would allow Jerry Jones to be a referee?

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Muzzle, I couldn't have said it better. You hit the nail on the head. Looking at it objectively, and not pointing fingers, it raises eyebrows that the team of the year happens to be the governing bodies President, treasurer, or owner.

QN
10-28-2009, 12:26 PM
The Jack, KCBS and The Best Of The Best are not FBA contests, so there is no conflict of interest.
The president of an organization winning TOY would raise eyebrows in just about every competitive arena.
I am not doubting anyones integrity or ability but I think if you are looking at it objectively you can see how there amy be a conflict of interest. Hell take it one step beyond and look at your employment agreement at work, most large companies prohibit their employees from working in the same field while they are employed. Do you think that the NFL would allow Jerry Jones to be a referee?

People who serve as board members and officers of barbecue organizations are not employees; they are volunteers and are not compensated for their service. There is no way a board member or officer has any advantage at a contest other than just being a better cook.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 12:35 PM
My observation, objectively speaking, is that if the "volunteers" aren't employees then they could compensate themselves with prize money by entering the competitions they are the governing body of.

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 12:37 PM
People who serve as board members and officers of barbecue organizations are not employees; they are volunteers and are not compensated for their service. There is no way a board member or officer has any advantage at a contest other than just being a better cook.

I don't believe that they do have an advantage any more than I think if I would have an advantage on a given day that one of my friends who is a judge stopped by my site to have breakfast on the morning of turn ins.

I believe wholeheartedly in the process of blind judging and think that it works just fine. I do not think that anyone out there is fixing contests. I do think that the overwhelming majority of contests will ban anyone that has been or is affiliated with the sanctioning, organizing or administration of that contest.

Let me ask this, if the blind judging works so well why can't a team compete and judge? If reps aren't allowed to compete, why should the organizers?

The_Kapn
10-28-2009, 12:40 PM
Can anyone explain to me how a contest could be rigged to favor a BOD member?
Or, any team for that matter.

Just curious.

TIM

Lakeside Smoker
10-28-2009, 12:44 PM
Can anyone explain to me how a contest could be rigged to favor a BOD member?
Or, any team for that matter.

Just curious.

TIM

Yeah, I'll second that. I'm on the NEBS BOD and, for the life of me, can't figure out any advantage on doing better at a contest because of it.

Scottie
10-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I lost all point of respect when you started pointing a finger at Rub. He is the last guy I would ever say is cheating. He is a honorable man and I would back any decision that Rub makes.

so for you to bring this up is a bunch of sour grapes. AND I can say that. I've competed against Rub this year in a KCBS contest that he beat me at and also at the Jack, which is a non-sanctioned event.

So I am sorry, go cry somewhere else. If you don't like it, don't compete. But don't point any fingers. :evil:

Jorge
10-28-2009, 12:46 PM
The Jack, KCBS and The Best Of The Best are not FBA contests, so there is no conflict of interest.
The president of an organization winning TOY would raise eyebrows in just about every competitive arena.
I am not doubting anyones integrity or ability but I think if you are looking at it objectively you can see how there amy be a conflict of interest. Hell take it one step beyond and look at your employment agreement at work, most large companies prohibit their employees from working in the same field while they are employed. Do you think that the NFL would allow Jerry Jones to be a referee?

Amazingly enough, those that are most likely to feel the impact in the case of the FBA don't seem to mind. The members made their decision when they voted for their elected representatives. They chose to elect several cooks that they respected and trusted. It's their organization and they have every right to do whatever they want.

I don't know about you, but I'm in no position to second guess someone that has a pretty clear vested interest in the fairness of judging etc....

QN
10-28-2009, 12:47 PM
I don't believe that they do have an advantage any more than I think if I would have an advantage on a given day that one of my friends who is a judge stopped by my site to have breakfast on the morning of turn ins.

I believe wholeheartedly in the process of blind judging and think that it works just fine. I do not think that anyone out there is fixing contests. I do think that the overwhelming majority of contests will ban anyone that has been or is affiliated with the sanctioning, organizing or administration of that contest.

Let me ask this, if the blind judging works so well why can't a team compete and judge? If reps aren't allowed to compete, why should the organizers?

In KCBS contests, the organizer of a specific contest is not allowed to compete in the contest they are the organizer for; it is a rule from KCBS. If they are the organizer they would not have time to compete at their contest anyway. That same organizer may be a competition cook who does compete in other contests that he is not an organizer for. Reps who are repping a specific contest cannot compete in that contest (they wouldn't have time); however, many reps are also cooks who compete in contests that they do not rep. I see no problem with this. Board members and organization officers are not necessarily reps or organizers, although they may be both at one time or another. They are involved at a much higher level in the organization and don't have detailed involvement with individual contests. Why should they not be allowed to compete? A team cannot compete and judge at the same contest primarily of the potential appearance of any possiblity of that teams box landing on the judging table where a team member is judging. I have been to contests where team members of competing teams at that contest were used as table captains.

Skip
10-28-2009, 12:49 PM
Can anyone explain to me how a contest could be rigged to favor a BOD member?
Or, any team for that matter.

Just curious.

TIM

BOD member makes a distinctive presentation

Rep knows which box is his/hers on turn in

Under the guise of FBA practice of evening out the judges at a table, said table is stacked with "friendly" judges who know the presentation

Repeat three more times

Voila

stir pot mod :lol:

EDIT: WOW this has gotten heated. I was only having fun. Not pointing fingers. Backpeddle mod

Lakeside Smoker
10-28-2009, 12:56 PM
BOD member makes a distinctive presentation



Can't anyone (not just a BOD member) do that?

Jorge
10-28-2009, 01:15 PM
My observation, objectively speaking, is that if the "volunteers" aren't employees then they could compensate themselves with prize money by entering the competitions they are the governing body of.

Are you a dues paying member of FBA yet? It would seem to me that, that would be the first step towards correcting a problem you seem to feel exists. You'd then be vested.

It just strikes me as odd that you joined this forum, and seem to have a great deal of insight based on just checking out one contest. As a friendly suggestion, you might want to visit Cattle Call and tell us a bit about yourself. It only seems fair, since the cooks of the FBA and their elected leadership know each other. Since you've called into question the integrity of public figures and all....

Scottie
10-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Are you a dues paying member of FBA yet? It would seem to me that, that would be the first step towards correcting a problem you seem to feel exists. You'd then be vested.

It just strikes me as odd that you joined this forum, and seem to have a great deal of insight based on just checking out one contest. As a friendly suggestion, you might want to visit Cattle Call and tell us a bit about yourself. It only seems fair, since the cooks of the FBA and their elected leadership know each other. Since you've called into question the integrity of public figures and all....



And Rub is a brother...

So sorry for coming to his aid. BUt I know he is busy at school now and can't defend himself.

So not trying to start a fight. Just defending the innocent. Just who I am.

ique
10-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Or some of the folks that have run the FBA are damn good cooks. What is more likely?

BOD member makes a distinctive presentation

Rep knows which box is his/hers on turn in

Under the guise of FBA practice of evening out the judges at a table, said table is stacked with "friendly" judges who know the presentation

Repeat three more times

Voila

stir pot mod :lol:

EDIT: WOW this has gotten heated. I was only having fun. Not pointing fingers. Backpeddle mod

Lake Dogs
10-28-2009, 01:29 PM
Coming from a different organization (MIM/MBA) as a judge, it seems almost ludicrous
to think that it's possibly rigged. That the better teams also serve on the BOD of
their organization is simply a product of them wanting to serve (FOR FREE) the org
that they want to see flourish. Damn. 'Course, we could start making those 6 figure
salaries, and charge an additional $100 per entry in a contest. Then perhaps we
could get paid ossifers that dont cook...

In the mean time, does it strike you as a conflict of interest if you cook the food
at home and then get to dilly your wife? I'm thinking if you're a cook, someone
else should be paid to dilly your wife.... *ZAP*

Perhaps one of the ladies might chime in on this thought...

Dustaway
10-28-2009, 01:35 PM
chansmoker

as a current president of an bbq organization that also happens to cook and gets blasted every damn time I cook a different sanctioning body events. were would you like for the members to cook? the way you would like to have an organization their would be no members because in MOST cases guys like you just like to bitch but never show up to meeting or even join the organization!

If you really have a problem with it I would suggest that you join the organization meet the people and then decided if you still have a problem before you just go to one event and THINK you saw something wrong? further more if you did see the box's the way you did then while you were stuffing your pie hole why didn't you ask one of the teams their? and to call RUB out is just plain ridiculous

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 01:36 PM
In response to Jorge & Scottie. No I am not a paying member of the FBA, yet. I'm not competing. For the past 2 years I have taken my family to BBQ events to watch and most importantly, eat. Should I decide to invest my time and money and starting a team, I want to do the research. I asked the question, I didn't mean to start WWIII. As for Cattle call, I am new to the forum, I will make sure I fill out my profile and introduce myself.

As for "Rub," I don't know who you're talking about. Some of the guys on the earlier posts on this thread mention their name, not me. I'm not pointing fingers, I was asking an honest question.

Bastey Boy
10-28-2009, 01:38 PM
Well, if there was a "Grassy Knoll BBQ Society" perhaps...

But, seriously, no.

I've been involved in bbq contests as a competitor, as an organizer, as a rep, judge, table captain and as a NEBS board member, and...no.

The folks involved in bbq contests do so with the utmost of integrity, and would never jeapordize their events, or reputations to help one individual team win.

Even some rinky-dink little non-sanctioned contests that I've seen may have been run in an un-organized manner, but rigged? No.

There is no possible way any contests I've ever seen could possibly be rigged without a large conspiracy, which would just never work, as you'd need many numerous people to be involved in trying to get one team to win...why?

Just doesn't happen. If it did, trust me on this, NONE of us would continue to be involved.

drbbq
10-28-2009, 01:43 PM
I'd say that anyone who buys into the latest conspiracy theory should probably find a different hobby than BBQ contests. It's just not a black and white kind of thing and it never will be.

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 01:47 PM
Please let me apologize if I have implied that I thought anyone was cheating, that is not my intent and am sorry if anything that I have said was interpreted so. I was just using the Rub example that had been previously posted, to make a counterpoint, I was in no way trying to say he is a cheat in any way shape or form. Sorry

Can anyone explain to me how a contest could be rigged to favor a BOD member?
Or, any team for that matter.

Just curious.

TIM

I don't know how anyone can, any more than I think the guy putting caps on bottles rig a contest, but if Pepsi is running a contest to send someone to the Super Bowl not only is that guy ineligible, so is his whole family. Thats just how it is everywhere you look.
Google contest rules and let me know how many results you find that don't contain a phrase similar to the one I have posted. You aren't going to find many if any at all, organizations that allow directors, organizers, sponsor or officials paid or not to compete within their own organization, it just does not happen. The overwhelming vast majority go to great lengths to ensure that anyone even remotely involved with the parent organization in any way is excluded from competing.

chainsmoker78
10-28-2009, 01:52 PM
Dustaway, I merely asked an objective question this morning. Who is "rub?" None have my posts have I mentioned anyone.

The_Kapn
10-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Ain't the Internet wonderful?? :lol:

This really goes beyond RUB (Swanp Boys).
4 (or so) of the current top ten TOTY members are BOD members or members elect.
That is simply because they are talented cooks who cook a lot of contests.
Nothing more and nothing less.

Tell ya what--there is a FBA contest in Bartow in about 3 weeks.
Drop by and hook up with a team for a few hours.

Or, come up to Elba, AL the same weekend and you can hang with me all weekend.

You have gotten some totally wrong impressions and the facts are much different.

On a side note, I have finished higher than RUB and several of the BOD teams this year.
I snuck in 2 RGCs while at it.
Last weekend, Foirrest (FBA Vice Pres.) took GC to my RGC by about 4 points.
The "conspirators" cut that one really close!
I guess the "vast conspirancy" is sloppy to let that happen :oops: :oops:

Come on out and learn the facts.

TIM

Lake Dogs
10-28-2009, 01:56 PM
>but if Pepsi is running a contest to send someone to the Super Bowl not only is that guy ineligible, so is his whole

Because they're PAID to work for Pepsi. BOD's aren't paid. Who would serve on the
BOD, unpaid, if not a cook or judge?

> That's how it is everywhere you look.

Yes, if you're looking into the ranks of paid employees. Look to other organizations
where anyone serving is a volunteer. Classic case in point: CASI. ALL cooks on
the BOD. I can tell you first hand, the now President, Renee Moore is one fan-damn-
tabulous chili cook. I've placed 2nd to her 1st in MANY cookoffs... Not one time did
I think there was any funny-business going on.

Lake Dogs
10-28-2009, 01:56 PM
Dustaway, I merely asked an objective question this morning. Who is "rub?" None have my posts have I mentioned anyone.

Rub is one of the Swamp Boys, if I had to guess. They tend to do pretty
good "down here"....

Jorge
10-28-2009, 01:59 PM
That's an invitation I'd jump on if you are looking at cooking in the future. You risk nothing other than gas $ and some time.

The_Kapn
10-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Please let me apologize if I have implied that I thought anyone was cheating, that is not my intent and am sorry if anything that I have said was interpreted so. I was just using the Rub example that had been previously posted, to make a counterpoint, I was in no way trying to say he is a cheat in any way shape or form. Sorry



I don't know how anyone can, any more than I think the guy putting caps on bottles rig a contest, but if Pepsi is running a contest to send someone to the Super Bowl not only is that guy ineligible, so is his whole . Thats just how it is everywhere you look.
Google contest rules and let me know how many results you find that don't contain a phrase similar to the one I have posted. You aren't going to find many if any at all, organizations that allow directors, organizers, sponsor or officials to compete within their own organization, it just does not happen, the vast majority go to great lengths to ensure that anyone even remotely involved with the parent organization in any way is excluded from competing.

Apples and Oranges.

That is simply because that person can influence the outcome.

Simply can not happen in KCBS or FBA contests.

When that BOD member is competing, they are simply a team who paid to be there, just like everyone else.
They have no special standing or influence--just that simple.

TIM

Sledneck
10-28-2009, 02:03 PM
Ain't the Internet wonderful?? :lol:

This really goes beyond RUB (Swanp Boys).
4 (or so) of the current top ten TOTY members are BOD members or members elect.
That is simply because they are talented cooks who cook a lot of contests.
Nothing more and nothing less.

Tell ya what--there is a FBA contest in Bartow in about 3 weeks.
Drop by and hook up with a team for a few hours.

Or, come up to Elba, AL the same weekend and you can hang with me all weekend.

You have gotten some totally wrong impressions and the facts are much different.

On a side note, I have finished higher than RUB and several of the BOD teams this year.
I snuck in 2 RGCs while at it.
Last weekend, Foirrest (FBA Vice Pres.) took GC to my RGC by about 4 points.
The "conspirators" cut that one really close!
I guess the "vast conspirancy" is sloppy to let that happen :oops: :oops:

Come on out and learn the facts.

TIM Tim, congrats on the RGC!

back on topic, some of the best times I have had in BBQ was spent hanging with some of them Florida folks. Chain, i would take tims offer of coming down to hang if I were you

Jorge
10-28-2009, 02:04 PM
I'd say that anyone who buys into the latest conspiracy theory should probably find a different hobby than BBQ contests. It's just not a black and white kind of thing and it never will be.

I don't know...with that crazy look you have....you might have been placed here by aliens:-P:lol:

PS I'm just pissed because I can't grow a cool....whatever the fark that thing you are rocking is called:wink:

Bastey Boy
10-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Muzzlebrake,

In the case of NEBS, for instance, NEBS does not organize, or run contests. NEBS does set guidelines to ensure that each and every contest will be run fairly and equally with other contests.

There are sometimes NEBS board members who are involved in the organization of events. That person is not allowed to enter his or her team into the event.

When this happens it is usually because we are a small, yet growing organization, and there just aren't that many people coming out of the woodwoork wanting to do it for us.

We do it to help grow the sport of competition barbecue, using the knowledge that we've accumulated over the years.

We also do it knowing full well that the event will be overseen by contest reps who are trusted completely to run the competition with the utmost of integrity.

When we're as big as NASCAR we'll make the necessary adjustments...give us time! :lol:

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 02:26 PM
the internet is SO cool....:biggrin:
>but if Pepsi is running a contest to send someone to the Super Bowl not only is that guy ineligible, so is his whole

Because they're PAID to work for Pepsi. BOD's aren't paid. Who would serve on the
BOD, unpaid, if not a cook or judge?

> That's how it is everywhere you look.

Yes, if you're looking into the ranks of paid employees. .

their families aren't, yet they are just as ineliglbe

Apples and Oranges.

That is simply because that person can influence the outcome.

Simply can not happen in KCBS or FBA contests.

When that BOD member is competing, they are simply a team who paid to be there, just like everyone else.
They have no special standing or influence--just that simple.

TIM
If I am to believe the Pepsi bottlecapper's 12 year old son has sway over the outcome of a national promotion, than am I really supposed to think that an officer of a national organization at a local contest or a sponsor of a contest competing in that contest can't have any effect?

Tim, you are a judge, but by KCBS rules you couldn't stop by and have breakfast with Rub on turn in day if you were judging.... why? I doubt that would have any impact on the results, certainly no more than you could have figured out if you had lunch the day before. its more than likely done to prevent the idea of any impropriety.

Bastey Boy
10-28-2009, 02:51 PM
Tim, you are a judge, but by KCBS rules you couldn't stop by and have breakfast with Rub on turn in day if you were judging.... why? I doubt that would have any impact on the results, certainly no more than you could have figured out if you had lunch the day before. its more than likely done to prevent the idea of any impropriety.

Yes, I believe that is simply to remove any implications of impropriety.

Skip
10-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Can't anyone (not just a BOD member) do that?


Yes but can just anyone have enough of a relationship with the rep to assure its placement? Or assure the judging table?

Of course this is all wild conjecture and would probably never happen. It was, however, posed as a question of how and I came up with what I feel would be the only way for it to happen. Do I think anyone in the FBA would even think of it. NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. As a competitor I know the standard I hold myself to and haven't yet found someone who's integrity falls below my own. The BOD, organizers, reps, competitor and judges I know are some of the most respectible people I have ever met. We all take this very seriously and those who don't won't last long.

Skip
10-28-2009, 02:58 PM
Or some of the folks that have run the FBA are damn good cooks. What is more likely?


I don't have to guess that one. I know one personally and he cooks circles around most I know on his bad day. :)

Again this thread took on a life of its own as I typed my fun little response which then landed smack in the middle of a debate I sdidn't see coming. The thread got serious fast and my humor was lost in that.

Lakeside Smoker
10-28-2009, 03:14 PM
Yes but can just anyone have enough of a relationship with the rep to assure its placement? Or assure the judging table?

Of course they could.
Just because you're on a BOD with someone doesn't mean they're all friends.

Scottie
10-28-2009, 03:19 PM
As a competitor I know the standard I hold myself to and haven't yet found someone who's integrity falls below my own. The BOD, organizers, reps, competitor and judges I know are some of the most respectible people I have ever met. We all take this very seriously and those who don't won't last long.


I play the same way. I play by the rules that pro golfers go by. Police yourself....

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
10-28-2009, 03:27 PM
I am on the BOD for Harrisburg PA, I also compete in Harrisburg. I am there to help the others see from a teams point of view. I think it helps bring things to light that may get missed if it was just a bunch of "money men" planning a comp. I personally would be ashamed to find out if someone shirked the rules because they new I helped plan an event.

Bastey Boy
10-28-2009, 03:35 PM
Of course they could.
Just because you're on a BOD with someone doesn't mean they're all friends.

Aint that the truth!!!!! :lol:

G$
10-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Last weekend, Foirrest (FBA Vice Pres.) took GC to my RGC by about 4 points.
The "conspirators" cut that one really close!
I guess the "vast conspirancy" is sloppy to let that happen :oops: :oops:


No Tim, it just shows how darn GOOD those conspirators are. Very accurate. :lol:

ThomEmery
10-28-2009, 04:51 PM
The first cook off I organized my Son won the RC
I was scared to death he was going to be the Grand Champion
and.......................

Smoke'n Ice
10-28-2009, 06:25 PM
If I did not trust the process, I would not compete. It is a hobby! When it becomes a business, then we would advance to a paid BOD, judges and reps. In the mean time, it is an amature sporting event that draws from all cross sections of life and yes, some may be crooks but they won't last long. Which are you?
Mack

Smoke'n Ice
FEC100
Traeger CS070
WSM (5)
Pitts & Spitts
Klose Pit
Original Kamato (45 years old and still working)
and other miscellaneous junk for making meat taste Good????

smokincracker
10-28-2009, 06:45 PM
[QUOTE=The_Kapn;
Last weekend, Foirrest (FBA Vice Pres.) took GC to my RGC by about 4 points.
The "conspirators" cut that one really close!
I guess the "vast conspirancy" is sloppy to let that happen :oops: :oops:

Come on out and learn the facts.

TIM[/QUOTE]

O man all this time I was under the impression that I was FBA Vice-President 2008 and 2009. WTH am I spending all this time doing. I figured as long as I was an FBA officer I would continue to squeak out a win now and then…..and the pay is awesome!! Can you image the conflict that Reps must have…. President?, Vice-President? ETC? ETC? Who’s gonna win this week…What a CROCK

Let’s look at the facts 4 KCBS contests in FL 2 won by a FBA BOD, 1 won by a former FBA BOD. Then we move into GA. Then theirs the Royal! Perhaps the FBA BODs have the KCBS reps working for them as well.

You know the worst part of this thread is 90% of the guys chiming in have no idea how the process works and will never take the time to get involved and find out. ARM CHAIR SMOKERS…..

Please make a rule that would make it a conflict of interest then I’ll have an extra 15-20 hrs a week to run my own business. O wait I can’t do that because the people that do all the b;;tchin are too damn lazy to get involved.

I’m done here

The_Kapn
10-28-2009, 06:53 PM
Jimmy,

I got in a hurry and screwed up your position.

Sorry.

Are we still friends ?? :oops: :oops:

See ya at Perry.

TIM

JD McGee
10-28-2009, 07:22 PM
Can anyone explain to me how a contest could be rigged to favor a BOD member?
Or, any team for that matter.

Just curious.

TIM

Easy...just use psychics...duh! :twisted: This thread is cracking me up.:lol::lol::lol:

I was asked by the president of our local BBQ association to run for the board. If I do I'll still compete (pretty much all the board members do)...if we win...people will just have to get over it because we plan on winning a lot! :cool:

Rookie'48
10-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Judges fraternizing with contestants on turn in day is a big no-no. The judge would be sent home.

Blind judging is far from loosely defined. The KCBS reps do a great job of assuring no one gets an unfair advantage. Double blind, really.

Each team has a way they like to build their box ... Do I know who's hit the table? No. If the box is so clearly defined then it will be DQ'ed for marking. In a heart beat!

Is there a possibility that a judge will find themselves on a table with food from a friend of theirs......Yes it is possible. Is it possible that they will then be able to identify it? Yes that is possible too. Is it possible that the judge will then compromise their integrity and judge up on the submission. Yes that is possible too. But that hypothetical judge still has only one set of scores to give for any one entry. The other 5 judges at that table would all have to be "bought off" also!


Let’s look at the facts 4 KCBS contests in FL 2 won by a FBA BOD, 1 won by a former FBA BOD. Then we move into GA. Then theirs the Royal! Perhaps the FBA BODs have the KCBS reps working for them as well. Maybe it was the meeting for the Brethren picture at Todd's place Friday evening? :twisted:

You know the worst part of this thread is 90% of the guys chiming in have no idea how the process works and will never take the time to get involved and find out. ARM CHAIR SMOKERS….. I don't know if your % are exact, but in general I agree, Jimmy!

I think that this whole "rigging" thing is Bull Sh*t!

I've highlighted in red the pertinent info in my opinion. My answers are in blue. By the way ... I do not compete but I do judge (12 comps this year) and I'm friends with a lot of the cooks. I visit on Friday night, wave "hi" as I go by on Saturday morning, and have a cold one or two with different teams at the awards in the afternoon. In three years of judging almost 30 contests not once has any one even attempted to influence my judging. NOT ONCE!

OK - off of my soap box now.

Jeff_in_KC
10-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Please let me apologize if I have implied that I thought anyone was cheating, that is not my intent and am sorry if anything that I have said was interpreted so. I was just using the Rub example that had been previously posted, to make a counterpoint, I was in no way trying to say he is a cheat in any way shape or form. Sorry



I don't know how anyone can, any more than I think the guy putting caps on bottles rig a contest, but if Pepsi is running a contest to send someone to the Super Bowl not only is that guy ineligible, so is his whole family. Thats just how it is everywhere you look.
Google contest rules and let me know how many results you find that don't contain a phrase similar to the one I have posted. You aren't going to find many if any at all, organizations that allow directors, organizers, sponsor or officials paid or not to compete within their own organization, it just does not happen. The overwhelming vast majority go to great lengths to ensure that anyone even remotely involved with the parent organization in any way is excluded from competing.

Sean, again, these are volunteers you're talking about, not employees like Pepsi, NASCAR, etc. Show me where it says volunteers can't compete or enter contests.

HoDeDo
10-28-2009, 08:39 PM
I disagree with just about everyone here. I think that officials, organizers and sponsors should be barred from competing in contests that they have duties other than being a competitor.
I don't care what contest/raffle/sweepstakes whatever you "compete" in you usually will find wording such as " Employees of company X, its contest sponsor, advertising and promotional agencies and their respective affiliates and associates and such employees' immediate family members and persons with whom such employees are domiciled are excluded from this contest. ".
Its standard language in just about all contests, why is ours different? Would we allow Tony Stewart to be on the board of NASCAR or A-Rod be allowed to hold an office in the American League office? I don't think so.
If all of the things that everyone has said about any anonymity holds true why is there a rule about the judges staying away from teams? if the blind judging serves to keep sponsors, directors and organizers anonymous, why doesn't it work for the team a judge had breakfast with?

So to use the pepsi example... Pepsi is running the contest... KCBS (or FBA) or any of these organizations do not organize or run contests. they simply sanction them, and then provide oversite of the rules...A paid service. The organizers of each event, or the benefactor of the event (March of dimes, Rotary, K of C, etc)usually work together to run it. they are responsible for prizes, judges, scoring, etc. The KCBS board has no say at the contest level. they are selling sanctioning to the contest. they are paid by the event to provide the service. If anything they are there to protect the cooks and ensure that an event is living by the rules.

I think the fact here is that some of the best cooks happen to also be those that are most passionate about thier hobby, and support the boards of thier parent organizations. I think that is needed for the members... I also think that organizers and events control who thier judges, and support staff are, not KCBS... so there is not a conflict.



Or some of the folks that have run the FBA are damn good cooks. What is more likely?

Hey Cracker only took RESERVE Grand, at the Royal... :twisted:

O man all this time I was under the impression that I was FBA Vice-President 2008 and 2009. WTH am I spending all this time doing. I figured as long as I was an FBA officer I would continue to squeak out a win now and then…..and the pay is awesome!! Can you image the conflict that Reps must have…. President?, Vice-President? ETC? ETC? Who’s gonna win this week…What a CROCK

Let’s look at the facts 4 KCBS contests in FL 2 won by a FBA BOD, 1 won by a former FBA BOD. Then we move into GA. Then theirs the Royal! Perhaps the FBA BODs have the KCBS reps working for them as well.

You know the worst part of this thread is 90% of the guys chiming in have no idea how the process works and will never take the time to get involved and find out. ARM CHAIR SMOKERS…..

Please make a rule that would make it a conflict of interest then I’ll have an extra 15-20 hrs a week to run my own business. O wait I can’t do that because the people that do all the b;;tchin are too damn lazy to get involved.

I’m done here

Jimmy, I plan on coming to cook an FBA event, I would hope I get to cook against you, Tim, and Rub.

BTW - I am not sure where this got twisted up... but I have read through this thread twice, and I can't find where anyone accused Rub of anything. Tim actually used him as an example to prove the opposite. Scottie... go back and re-read.:-P

Plowboy
10-28-2009, 08:59 PM
Andy, congrats on the Yankees making the series. :wink:

JD McGee
10-28-2009, 09:15 PM
Andy, congrats on the Yankees making the series. :wink:

WooHoo...Go Phillies! :twisted:

HoDeDo
10-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Andy, congrats on the Yankees making the series. :wink:

Royals weren't gonna get there... :rolleyes: Go Yankees!

Muzzlebrake
10-28-2009, 09:42 PM
Andy, congrats on the Yankees making the series. :wink:

you should see him in his Eli Manning jersey......:twisted::biggrin:

Big George's BBQ
10-28-2009, 09:46 PM
Phils up 2 to 0 Top of the 8th Bases loaded- Go Phils

HoDeDo
10-28-2009, 10:00 PM
you should see him in his Eli Manning jersey......:twisted::biggrin:

Heh..........heh. Now that is good.... :twisted::rolleyes:

Meat Burner
10-28-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't see any conflict of interest.

ThomEmery
10-28-2009, 10:13 PM
This kinda sounds like a dead of Winter thread

mrwicks
10-29-2009, 12:03 AM
Royals weren't gonna get there... :rolleyes: Go Yankees!


Does the American Royal lose it's luster due to the fact it's named after the George Bretts ??? :lol::lol::lol:


I think the OP has a right to question....may be the case that there is no impropriety happening....but he can question it.....integrity is supposed to be a part of every human beings makeup ....but as Plowboy so eloquently put it in another thread (maybe it was the joke forum)....we IFO (Illinois Folk) have had the past 2 Governors go to jail or have charges brought.....they were supposed to have integrity.....so it can happen...Im sure it would take more trouble than what its worth... (entry fee, Meat, Travel, Judge Bribes would surely eat up all profit) but it can happen...not trying to ruffle feathers......I'm Just Sayin!!!!!:icon_bugeyed:icon_bugeyed:icon_bugeyed

Scottie
10-29-2009, 10:09 AM
BTW - I am not sure where this got twisted up... but I have read through this thread twice, and I can't find where anyone accused Rub of anything. Tim actually used him as an example to prove the opposite. Scottie... go back and re-read.:-P


Andy, I was going by initial comments that the original poster was making (for sure not from what Tim was saying).. About "winning all of the contests". No disrepspect to other FBA cooks, but that "assumption" by me was all about Rub and him also being on the BOD and being the President of the FBA. I've been wrong before and will no doubt be wrong again. But to me, that was about Rub. If not, I apologize. I'd hate to see a good guy like Rub being accused of any wrong doings...

FWIW I have now come to the conclusion that this was just a bunch of mud slinging by the uninformed...

Skip
10-29-2009, 10:18 AM
Of course they could.
Just because you're on a BOD with someone doesn't mean they're all friends.

Pointing that out puts it all in perspective. If it were to happen it could happen with anyone regardless of relationship or title. That fact makes the whole idea even more ludicrious then first thought. Thanks Mike! :lol::lol::lol:

Rub
10-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Damn, I guess the gig is up. Lol...

First and most importantly to me, a heart felt "Thank You" to everyone who spoke on my behalf and defended me from any real or perceived slights. I am blessed to have such great friends - I truly mean that.

Chainsmoker, there's not much I can say that hasn't already been pointed out here. There is no wrongdoing of any kind happening within our BOD or Reps, period. If I was just successful within the FBA confines, I could see where it could look fishy. But I have been fortunate enough to have some success in KCBS as well, and the BOTB, both of which are outside the FBA realm.

You have to understand that 99.9% of BBQ folks are not like most typical folks. Unlike many in business you read about in the news these days, we still live our lives based on honesty, integrity, our word, and a handshake. If you come out and join us for some cookoffs you will quickly see this for yourself. I hope you do, and I invite you by my place for a cold one in Bartow. If you are the type who is always leery of people and expect the worst, then BBQ contests may not be for you. Either way I hope you come by and say hi.

I'm at the BOTB now and forgot my power cord for my laptop, so hopefully my battery will last a little while...

Lakeside Smoker
10-29-2009, 10:43 AM
stir pot mod :lol:


:-D:-D
We know what you like to do :-D

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/lakesidesmoker/i_live_to_stir_the_pot_tshirt-p2357.jpg

^^ This would make a MUCH better avatar than what you have. :-D

Skip
10-29-2009, 10:50 AM
:-D:-D
We know what you like to do :-D

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n40/lakesidesmoker/i_live_to_stir_the_pot_tshirt-p2357.jpg

^^ This would make a MUCH better avatar than what you have. :-D


Hmm guilty as charged?

Lake Dogs
10-29-2009, 10:54 AM
Stir the pot, or stick your finger in a light-socket?

Skip
10-29-2009, 10:57 AM
Stir the pot, or stick your finger in a light-socket?


Stuck a paper clip in the socket as a kid. Mom says she saw the spark and heard the pop. Then heard me say "Wow". So I guess both. :lol:

I test 9V batteries with my tongue too!

BBQ Groupies
10-29-2009, 11:06 AM
Chainsmoker, I too have followed FBA events around the state for a few years. To the point the teams started calling us the BBQ Groupies with which we named our team. What drew me to them was the atmosphere and openess among the teams. Not only did they always give us samples but answer any questions we had about smoking, prep, rubs their cooker,etc. And these were top winning teams. One of the most helpful teams was team of the year that year. Up until Christmas 2007 I had never even cooked on anything other than a gas grill and then was limited to hamburgers and steak. Finally for Christmas 2007 my wife bought me an Charbroil silvermountain offset for about $170.00 at Home Dept. My first cook was a pork butt that took 16 hours and then was far from good. I kept going to visit events where top pro teams would coach me and give me advice. With their help I finally got the hang of it. After much encouragement from some of the teams we finally enterd a comp. in the backyard division in Wachula. We had all the usual problems a first time team has including forgetting things, not knowing procedures,etc. Our competing teams were all more than helpful and even loaned us things we forgot. Our awning even got picked up and rolled over many team sites by wind and severly dented the top of a brand new truck of an opposing team. All the teams helped us clean it up and the fellow with the truck felt worse for us than we did. We competed with our silvermountain, another one we bought off Craigs list for 30 dollors, and a old WSB. We competed against teams that had been competeting for years. The cheapest smoker I saw, in backyard division mind you, was an 150 gallon stickburner. Backyard teams had Stumps, Fec100s, and Big Lang smokers. Talk about unfair advantage! We took 1st place in ribs and 3rd in chicken. We have competed in another FBA backyard since getting second and third in same catagories, joined the FBA and 2 weeks ago did our first pro division in Brooksville where we got an 8th and 10th place, cooking still on same cheap cookers. The team that won GC came over and introduced himself and offered any help he could. That week we got our turnin boxes with our names on them and I questioned it. A FBA rep was quick to explaine the procedure previously explained in another thread. I guess theres 2 points I am trying to make. First, if it wasn't for many of the top teams, some of which now sit on the board, I wouldn't even be competeing much less know how to BBQ! If there was any impropriaty why would they be so open with info some of which I consider their winning secrets that have made us competetive with what we use. Second, money is always tight around home or I would have a stumps or lang or even a FastEddys. We can only afford to do a competition every once in awhile that isnt too far away. Sure those GC and first place checks are nice, I imagine, but thats not why were in it. I have never hung out, socialized, learned so much or competed with a better group of people. I would like to thank all the teams that have helped us along the way by name, many of which have chimed in on this but dont feel right doing that without their permission. I realize I might have been long winded and alot of this probably belongs in cattle call but you sound like your getting started the way we recently did and thought maybe this would help make up your mind. Thanks again to all the teams for the help along the way and our next comp will be Bartow so stop by and say hi if you get a chance.
Its just my opinion

smokincracker
10-29-2009, 11:23 AM
Folks it’s easy to get defensive when you resemble these remarks and work hard to try to protect and embrace an organization that you love and that loves you back. The fact is that I have developed life long friends by way of this crazy hobby. I have been approached on this subject in the past in a very direct, abusive way. This has caused me to become very weary and defensive concerning this subject. I was approached by a die hard well known respected KCBS cook and this person told me that this was the reason for his non participation in FBA events. I’ve never been so frustrated speaking to this individual because he based all his conclusions on assumptions and when it got down to the nuts and bolts he had no idea how the box routing and judging process works. The conversation did not end well and in the end I believe his comments were mostly fueled by jealousy and hate. It was this conversation that has motivated me and perhaps some other mentioned FBA BODs to participate more in some KCBS events in an effort to spread the joy. I’ll be giving a MBN a try next weekend in Vienna, GA.

Since I’ve been involved with the FBA admin the FBA BODs and Contest Reps have made huge strides proving that the judging tables are not stacked with consistently high or low scoring judges causing some tables to score higher than others and also making sure that your boxes are never routed to the same table twice. It is my opinion that these are some of the main reasons that the better BBQ cooks constantly have good results at FBA contests. Andy made some good points and I appreciate his approach to the subject because passion plays a huge role in my decision to be involved with the FBAs administration. If I knew of a way that my position as FBA vice-president could possibly influence my results at any contest I would yield today and quit the admin side and only participate as a cook. The fact is this subject is making me consider just that and quite frankly I’m exhausted thinking about it.

Skip
10-29-2009, 11:37 AM
If I knew of a way that my position as FBA vice-president could possibly influence my results at any contest I would yield today and quit the admin side and only participate as a cook. The fact is this subject is making me consider just that and quite frankly I’m exhausted thinking about it.

Jimmy that would be a sad day for FBA. Your work, along with the other FBA leadership, has not gone unnoticed. Your groups constant attention to detail has helped make FBA a well respected sanctioning body. You and your counterparts are a big part of its success and should not allow conjecture to trump truth. As long as you are confident in yourself NO ONE can question your integrity.

As for the thread starter, chainsmoker. I think you inadvertently hit on a subject that has reared its ugly head before and were the recipient of some nasty fodder. I wouldn't let it get to you or think that anyone is going to think differently of you. We are all good people and very passionate about our sport. Your thread could be taken a few ways and it seems the worse way was the victor. Keep keeping on and you will see the wonderful side of the Brethren too. Oh and if you don't take these great people up on their invite you are really missing out. All it took was one friendly person at our first BBQ comp to make us lifers. These are the people you've always wished existed. No where in the world will you find a nice group of real down to earth and giving people. They are the brothers and sisters and cousins you wished you had at home. Once you are in you are family. Am I right folks?

Scottie
10-29-2009, 11:55 AM
Here I am for the second time in 2 weeks saying it... You are right SKip.... :roll:

Skip
10-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Here I am for the second time in 2 weeks saying it... You are right SKip.... :roll:


<~~~is jotting this day down on the calendar :lol::lol::lol:

Bastey Boy
10-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Damn, I guess the gig is up. Lol...

First and most importantly to me, a heart felt "Thank You" to everyone who spoke on my behalf and defended me from any real or perceived slights. I am blessed to have such great friends - I truly mean that.

Chainsmoker, there's not much I can say that hasn't already been pointed out here. There is no wrongdoing of any kind happening within our BOD or Reps, period. If I was just successful within the FBA confines, I could see where it could look fishy. But I have been fortunate enough to have some success in KCBS as well, and the BOTB, both of which are outside the FBA realm.

You have to understand that 99.9% of BBQ folks are not like most typical folks. Unlike many in business you read about in the news these days, we still live our lives based on honesty, integrity, our word, and a handshake. If you come out and join us for some cookoffs you will quickly see this for yourself. I hope you do, and I invite you by my place for a cold one in Bartow. If you are the type who is always leery of people and expect the worst, then BBQ contests may not be for you. Either way I hope you come by and say hi.

I'm at the BOTB now and forgot my power cord for my laptop, so hopefully my battery will last a little while...

Nicely put, Rub. That sums it up, don't it?

Good luck in Douglas and say hi to everyone down there for us....wish we could have made the trip this year.

Jorge
10-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Here I am for the second time in 2 weeks saying it... You are right SKip.... :roll:

Who are you, and what have you done with Scottie?:-P

Scottie
10-29-2009, 12:26 PM
Who are you, and what have you done with Scottie?:-P


Brain damage.... :eek:

smokincracker
10-29-2009, 12:44 PM
Jimmy that would be a sad day for FBA. Your work, along with the other FBA leadership, has not gone unnoticed. Your groups constant attention to detail has helped make FBA a well respected sanctioning body. You and your counterparts are a big part of its success and should not allow conjecture to trump truth. As long as you are confident in yourself NO ONE can question your integrity.

As for the thread starter, chainsmoker. I think you inadvertently hit on a subject that has reared its ugly head before and were the recipient of some nasty fodder. I wouldn't let it get to you or think that anyone is going to think differently of you. We are all good people and very passionate about our sport. Your thread could be taken a few ways and it seems the worse way was the victor. Keep keeping on and you will see the wonderful side of the Brethren too. Oh and if you don't take these great people up on their invite you are really missing out. All it took was one friendly person at our first BBQ comp to make us lifers. These are the people you've always wished existed. No where in the world will you find a nice group of real down to earth and giving people. They are the brothers and sisters and cousins you wished you had at home. Once you are in you are family. Am I right folks?

Skip u need a hug or are u just on that fire water you guys drink...

Been here done that a few years now and I appreciate the fellowship and thats why i take the time to pour it out on the table here..
Thanks buddy

Bentley
10-29-2009, 03:05 PM
If all of the things that everyone has said about any anonymity holds true why is there a rule about the judges staying away from teams? if the blind judging serves to keep sponsors, directors and organizers anonymous, why doesn't it work for the team a judge had breakfast with?

Great point!

Always wondered that myself.

Is It Ready Yet?
10-29-2009, 03:18 PM
Jimmy that would be a sad day for FBA. Your work, along with the other FBA leadership, has not gone unnoticed. Your groups constant attention to detail has helped make FBA a well respected sanctioning body. You and your counterparts are a big part of its success and should not allow conjecture to trump truth. As long as you are confident in yourself NO ONE can question your integrity.

As for the thread starter, chainsmoker. I think you inadvertently hit on a subject that has reared its ugly head before and were the recipient of some nasty fodder. I wouldn't let it get to you or think that anyone is going to think differently of you. We are all good people and very passionate about our sport. Your thread could be taken a few ways and it seems the worse way was the victor. Keep keeping on and you will see the wonderful side of the Brethren too. Oh and if you don't take these great people up on their invite you are really missing out. All it took was one friendly person at our first BBQ comp to make us lifers. These are the people you've always wished existed. No where in the world will you find a nice group of real down to earth and giving people. They are the brothers and sisters and cousins you wished you had at home. Once you are in you are family. Am I right folks?

Dont know you Skip...but well said.

The people in the FBA are the reason we will continue to be a member.

Harbormaster
10-29-2009, 03:51 PM
Interesting thread.
I only have one thing to say:
Tell ya what-- come up to Elba, AL the same weekend and you can hang with me all weekend. TIM
Chainsmoker, you need to take this man up on his offer. You will not be disappointed. Kapn will treat you like he's known you his whole life. You'll have a great weekend and learn a lot about competition Q.

beardjp
10-29-2009, 11:20 PM
Conflict because you organize and compete. Well let me see, I spent a year and a lot of time and money on my local KCBS competition. I paid the $200 entry fee. On the organizational committee I am considered the team liaison. I make sure the team's interests are considered in planning and I make sure teams are happy and get what they need to compete. I don't work with or help with judges. I think if I wanted to take advantage of my position I would have arranged to do better than 40 out of 43. In 8 years I have not meet a team that would not do everything they could to help another. Conspiracies be dammed!:-P:-P:-P

DoubleC
10-30-2009, 01:44 AM
Try cooking sometime in Texas !!! I'm getting downright sick of it sometimes.

I'll tell you what a conflict of interest is. It's when people who organize the cook-off's go out to the teams that are cooking and try to recruit people for judges.

I've seen people cooking side by side with a head cook all night long only to be approached the next day by someone in charge, due to the fact that they open the judging up to the public and need more judges to sit on tables.

I've also seen contest officials call winners by name instead of by ticket number when they are doing the awards. In Texas they tape a ticket to the top of the turn in-box for each category and you pull off the stub. When they do the awards they call your ticket number to match the winning ticket. How in the world would they know in advance who's won a particular category if they don't even call the ticket number. Sometimes though they do. How do you explain that one.


I wish a sanctioning body in Texas would follow some of the ideas that the KCBS uses. I'm not as familiar with the FBA however I know it's ran by some great people from what I have heard.

I do it and stay with it honestly because of the friends I've made. I've also got a very competitive spirit so I would be lying if I didn't say I'm also in it for the fun. I just wish those who feel the need to cheat would get the hell out of our sport and let those of us who love it throwdown with one another.



.

HoDeDo
10-30-2009, 08:54 AM
All it took was one friendly person at our first BBQ comp to make us lifers. These are the people you've always wished existed. No where in the world will you find a nice group of real down to earth and giving people. They are the brothers and sisters and cousins you wished you had at home. Once you are in you are family. Am I right folks?

I can attest to the fact that I have family all over the country now... Heck, Julie even made the extra stop and took me by the DMV on the way to the airport Friday Morning after Sayville. :rolleyes:

And I know you farkers all have me pegged as a New Yawk resident now... BUT, I know if was in TX, WI, IL, MI, FL, AZ, CO, LA, you name it.... I could get all the help I needed/wanted with a phone call, too. It is a big family. And with the world the way it is today, there isnt anything better to model to my kiddos than that. They have friends all over the country, and love alot of thier "uncles and aunts".

They were bummed at the Royal they didnt get to see Jorge (actually, Kaylin just wants his Mustang :shock: ) And then the last time we went to NY without them, they were asking about friends and if Sean was going to have his Dogs there. :-P They couldnt understand why we wern't buying them plane tickets to come along (it's their family too, afterall) It doesnt get much better than that folks.

ModelMaker
10-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Wow been gone for a few days, missed alot..
Judging and occasionally cooking in Iowa you run into the President of KCBS quite a bit. Sometimes he's repping, sometimes he's competing and vending.
I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would for a minute doubt his
integrety either as a cook or the head of KCBS.
Of course, If you'd like you could broach the subject with him...... but let me know in advance (I'd like to see it!).
ModelMaker

KC_Bobby
10-30-2009, 01:14 PM
I've only perused this thread but I can't help but to think of the various board members who have cooked in the past and have fared like a number of the rest of us ... sometimes closer to the top - sometimes closer to the bottom. The board members that I can think of that have been more successful then not ... they seem to be rather top-notch cooks and do well even when they are competing outside of their own sanctioning body.

Jeff Hughes
10-30-2009, 01:57 PM
I can attest to the fact that I have family all over the country now... Heck, Julie even made the extra stop and took me by the DMV on the way to the airport Friday Morning after Sayville. :rolleyes:

And I know you farkers all have me pegged as a New Yawk resident now... BUT, I know if was in TX, WI, IL, MI, FL, AZ, CO, LA, you name it.... I could get all the help I needed/wanted with a phone call, too. It is a big family. And with the world the way it is today, there isnt anything better to model to my kiddos than that. They have friends all over the country, and love alot of thier "uncles and aunts".

They were bummed at the Royal they didnt get to see Jorge (actually, Kaylin just wants his Mustang :shock: ) And then the last time we went to NY without them, they were asking about friends and if Sean was going to have his Dogs there. :-P They couldnt understand why we wern't buying them plane tickets to come along (it's their family too, afterall) It doesnt get much better than that folks.

Uh, you forgot Oklahoma...

JD McGee
10-30-2009, 09:46 PM
Jimmy that would be a sad day for FBA. Your work, along with the other FBA leadership, has not gone unnoticed. Your groups constant attention to detail has helped make FBA a well respected sanctioning body. You and your counterparts are a big part of its success and should not allow conjecture to trump truth. As long as you are confident in yourself NO ONE can question your integrity.

As for the thread starter, chainsmoker. I think you inadvertently hit on a subject that has reared its ugly head before and were the recipient of some nasty fodder. I wouldn't let it get to you or think that anyone is going to think differently of you. We are all good people and very passionate about our sport. Your thread could be taken a few ways and it seems the worse way was the victor. Keep keeping on and you will see the wonderful side of the Brethren too. Oh and if you don't take these great people up on their invite you are really missing out. All it took was one friendly person at our first BBQ comp to make us lifers. These are the people you've always wished existed. No where in the world will you find a nice group of real down to earth and giving people. They are the brothers and sisters and cousins you wished you had at home. Once you are in you are family. Am I right folks?

Right you are Skip! :-P Since I started BBQ'n I have met some outstanding people and have formed some life long friendships as well. I believe anyone would be hard pressed in any corner of the BBQ nation to find folks that go out of their way to deceive and cheat during comps. I have never seen it up here in our corner of the country...yet. I'm sure it happens...but I'd bet a dollar to a dime not very often!

At first I responded to this thread as a joke...thinking it was just a lambasting...but once you get in to it I realized it was a simple misunderstanding blown a bit out of proportion. My hats off to y'all for taking the time to explain...please excuse my previous idiotic response! :icon_blush:

JD