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Lake Dogs
10-21-2009, 10:34 AM
MIM/MBN CBJ here. However, I assume there are differences between
KCBS and MBN. Mind if I ask you guys a few questions?

Ahh, see below. 1 and 2 end up rather moot. Thanks. Love to know
answers to 3 and 4 below:

> 1. If a person presents an entry with sauce on the side, how is this judged?
>
> In MBN, it must be judged with the meat and scored accordingly. There
> is no option to try the meat sans sauce and then with sauce to determine
> the best score.
>
> 2. On that note, is there such a thing as sauce on the side in KCBS?

3. Curious, of the better pulled pork entries (that you recall) and
brisket entries, were they presented with sauce or sans sauce?

4. Ribs, MIM/MBN defines that they should pull from the bone cleanly, with only
a little (slightest) resistance. Not falling off, but pull cleanly from the bone. How
does KCBS define it, or do they?

From what I've seen in MIM/MBN, its rare that the winning entries in whole hog or shoulder are ever sauced... I can think of some that make it to
finals, but even those had lower scores because of the sauce presented...

Ford
10-21-2009, 10:45 AM
Sauce must be on the meat wiht no pooling of sauce in the box. In other words it's more of a glaze.

In the midwest if it doesn't have sauce it's often DAL. Been there and never do it again.

Stoke&Smoke
10-21-2009, 10:46 AM
MIM/MBN CBJ here. However, I assume there are differences between
KCBS and MBN. Mind if I ask you guys a few questions?

1. If a person presents an entry with sauce on the side, how is this judged?
As a DQ. Sauce (or anything else) is not allowed "on the side"

In MBN, it must be judged with the meat and scored accordingly. There
is no option to try the meat sans sauce and then with sauce to determine
the best score.

2. On that note, is there such a thing as sauce on the side in KCBS? no

3. Curious, of the better pulled pork entries (that you recall) and
brisket entries, were they presented with sauce or sans sauce?
I haven't judged at all this year, but the past two both brisket and pork are often lightly sauced. I think I would likely grade down for too much sauce on either, as it is a meat contest, not a sauce contest


From what I've seen in MIM/MBN, its rare that the winning entries in whole hog or shoulder are ever sauced... I can think of some that make it to
finals, but even those had lower scores because of the sauce presented...

Hope this helps

BBQ Bandit
10-21-2009, 11:15 AM
No sauce on the side... must be applied to the entry.
No excessive sauce... known as "pooling" or "puddle of sauce"

Lake Dogs
10-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Ok, so first two questions end up moot. Thanks.

Love to know the answer(s) to 3.

Also, fourth question, if I could:

4. Ribs, MIM/MBN defines that they should pull from the bone cleanly, with only
a little (slightest) resistance. Not falling off, but pull cleanly from the bone. How
does KCBS define it, or do they?

musicmanryann
10-21-2009, 11:50 AM
#3--Bring on the sauce. As long as it enhances the flavor of the meat without overshadowing it, I would judge it good. It doesn't and shouldn't matter how much visually is on the meat as long as it tastes good.

#4--KCBS gives similar/same guidance during the CBJ class.

Bentley
10-21-2009, 12:53 PM
1. If a person presents an entry with sauce on the side, how is this judged?

2. On that note, is there such a thing as sauce on the side in KCBS?

3. Curious, of the better pulled pork entries (that you recall) and
brisket entries, were they presented with sauce or sans sauce?

4. Ribs, MIM/MBN defines that they should pull from the bone cleanly, with only a little (slightest) resistance. Not falling off, but pull cleanly from the bone. How does KCBS define it, or do they?


1 Is not suppose to be done.

2 No.

3. Of the nearly 20 contestes I have judged, I would say 90% are sauced. "Sauced" could be BBQ, Au Jus or even a glaze, have seen some of all.

4. About the same.

BBQchef33
10-21-2009, 08:08 PM
for the rib question. The way it was explained at the judging class i took years ago.

"Ribs should pull cleanly from the bone where bitten, with a gentle tug".

Ideally only the "bite" will be removed and the rest of the rib should still be on the bone. If the entire rib pulls off in one bite, its overcooked.

Meat Burner
10-21-2009, 10:14 PM
for the rib question. The way it was explained at the judging class i took years ago.

"Ribs should pull cleanly from the bone where bitten, with a gentle tug".

Ideally only the "bite" will be removed and the rest of the rib should still be on the bone. If the entire rib pulls off in one bite, its overcooked.
Yep. Still the criteria for KCBS.

Lake Dogs
10-22-2009, 06:04 AM
Thanks guys! So, pork and brisket presented sauced most of the time?

QansasjayhawQ
10-22-2009, 12:33 PM
Thanks guys! So, pork and brisket presented sauced most of the time?

That's what I've seen - but as Bentley says - it can be BBQ sauce or the juice from the pan or a vinegar style sauce.

Yes, most of the time, there has been something wet and tasty applied to the pork samples, especially pulled pork.

Are you thinking of heading to a KCBS contest?

Lake Dogs
10-22-2009, 12:45 PM
I've done a couple (KCBS) and not scored terribly well; looking to improve. Haven't
seen a judges class in the state... Mainly looking to see where the training is
different (and where sauce is concerned, it's DIFFERENT). Would love to be a fly on
the wall at a few KCBS cookoffs to see what comes across the table and what's
being scored. Have that with MIM/MBN (5 years as a judge), just not KCBS...

Glad that ribs tenderness is basically the same. Seems the main difference is where
sauce is used, presented, and judged. BIG difference here.