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Redheart
10-19-2009, 02:14 PM
Well I did the Liberty Tree event up in Dalton this weekend. I have a little pron to show as well. I did have an enjoyable time but in truth I am not planning in ever doing another ICBA event again. It is basically a peoples choice event for every category. The judging is based totally on taste, at least that is what we were told, and the judges are local folks and dignitaries that get a quick briefing from the IBCA rep and nothing else. So basically they get a crash course on what the rep likes in BBQ and are told to judge on that. If the scoring was truly based solely on taste, as claimed, then they should have blind folded the judges. There were only 15 contestants in the event and the awards ceremony lasted at least an hour in the wind as the sun was setting. The event used a bizarre raffle blind ticket means of securing anonymity, which meant we had to look at our tickets to find out if we won. Way too long and drawn out. Especially since it was cold and most of us were anxious to finish tearing down. The People's Choice was pork and was done by each team providing samples to those who had wrist bands. The winner was the team that collected the most wrist bands. I gave up half way through, about 5 o'clock, to concentrate on tearing down. I was just too tired to dole out samples in the hopes of winning $100 bucks for a butt I was not too proud of.
I did get a chance to meet GreenDriver (Chet), Bub-Ba-Q (William Lattimer) who competed and a few other Brethren like MikeHVAC who did not. Think I wrangled a new Brethren, Homer (Adam) and his wife "Chicken". We all shared stories and Q among the wind and the cold.

So here is a little pron:

Here are my ABC's (Apple Bacon Cheddar) for the dessert contest:
http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1037.jpg

\http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1040.jpg

I had to use larger tins than I had planned and forget to cut the bacon a little longer for the 5" tins rather than the 4" I prefer to use. But I got to admit they tasted pretty damn good!

Now here is a little quesadilla made from the left over cheese and pie crust. Adam wanted to know why it didn't have any bacon. I asked him if he had ever heard of left over bacon.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1041.jpg

Here is my half jointed chicken. I smoked her whole for several hours, foiled and placed her in towels in a warmed cooler. I split her about 15 minutes before turn in and placed her directly over the coal for about 5 minutes each side to firm the flesh and skin. My first call and I took 10th.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1044.jpg

My ribs were a bomb! And not a good bomb by any means. No pull back on the bones and again tough as nails.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1046.jpg

and in the box.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1047.jpg

Here is the pork butt. I had a very difficult time getting the meat above 180* and had to serve her sliced. It did have a decent taste and a texture like medium rare roast beef. Here is the turn-in box, notice if you can it is unsauced. No saucing allowed after meat is removed from the cooker per ICBA regulations. This took 7th and was my final call for the day.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1051.jpg

Now my final entery was of course the brisket. It was among the 2 or 3 best briskets I have every done. Several competitors taste tested it and admitted that they though it was better than what they turned in. Homer got 3rd in brisket and I thought hell if he got 3rd I might just have this on in the bag. But alas it wasn't to happen. Here she is after resting and sliced.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1052.jpg

the point was just a bit to tender by KCBS standards and I submitted the flat, maybe I should have turned in the point.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Redheart_of_the_13moons/DSCF1055.jpg

All in all it was a fun time, and am looking forward to more events but I am looking forward to doing it again next year if they get sanctioning from KCBS or FBA. In the mean time I have to figure out if I can afford another competition or two before the end of the year. Maybe the Ga BBQ Assoc. event in Richland GA next month. All pork event, ribs, butt and loin. Hmmmm now I am gonna have to practice my loins.

Lake Dogs
10-19-2009, 03:25 PM
Sorry about that. Yes, the main guy there is Trey Field. I know him WELL, from CASI.
The judging tickets you were using are directly from CASI (that's how CASI keeps
everything blind). It is as blind as it gets, but makes for a very bizarre awards
ceremony... The local CASI Pod removed him as the main person who charges judges
because in many of our opinions he didn't instruct them well and we saw it coming
through the scores. Everything was willy-nilly. Now there's 3 of us who charge
the judges (chili). Not having CBJ's really sucks.

Sorry about that!

Redheart
10-19-2009, 05:04 PM
Sorry about that. Yes, the main guy there is Trey Field. I know him WELL, from CASI.
The judging tickets you were using are directly from CASI (that's how CASI keeps
everything blind). It is as blind as it gets, but makes for a very bizarre awards
ceremony... The local CASI Pod removed him as the main person who charges judges
because in many of our opinions he didn't instruct them well and we saw it coming
through the scores. Everything was willy-nilly. Now there's 3 of us who charge
the judges (chili). Not having CBJ's really sucks.

Sorry about that!

I didn't have to say anything but IBCA and you knew what I was talking about. That just reinforces my decision not to do any of their events again. Might have to try my hand at CASI though. Is Chile Verde a legal entree?

Damn. I just hijacked my own thread.

Lynn
10-19-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.

Redheart
10-19-2009, 07:37 PM
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.

Thank you for the insight into the scoring. It is much more than what was shared at the event and much more than what is presented on the IBCA website. My biggest concern about Joe Public is that Applebee's and the likes sell millions of pounds of ribs each year but that IMHO is not BBQ but that is what Joe Public thinks of when they think of ribs.

Well again thank you for the insight.

SirPorkaLot
10-19-2009, 07:44 PM
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.


Allow me to paraphrase:

It is our system, and we like it. If you are a competitor don't like it - tough.
oh & btw Joe Public knows their BBQ
(these are the same people that keep buying the McRib at Micky Ds & Applebees ...uh-hem ribs)

That crap might work somewhere, but it won't fly where real BBQ comes from (and no it's not Texas :mrgreen:)


Redheart - thanks for the heads up - I now don't half to decide whether or not to spend my valuable money & time competing in such a farce of a competition, where they really don't seem to want input from the competitors.

Jeff Hughes
10-19-2009, 07:47 PM
Lynn

As you know ICBA events can be pretty confusing for teams used to KCBS.

The judging procedure(which is very fair) and lack of feedback in terms of score sheets can be frustrating at first.

Often you have first time IBCAers competing in a contest where the Head Judge comes from the CASI world. This combination can lead to issues.

IBCA comps are fun. But, I think the ICBA hurts themselves when the don't have an experienced Head Judge running a first time comp. Especially when the comp is in new territory.

The same guys that win KCBS win IBCA around here...

ZILLA
10-19-2009, 09:23 PM
Don't give up on IBCA events. They are as good as any KCBS event and many are probably better. Don't be fooled into thinking that a CBJ is the ultimate way to go. The IBCA judging works! Look at any of the top teams that cook both IBCA and KCBS, you will find that they win both. Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!

Lynn
10-19-2009, 11:37 PM
Thank you for the insight into the scoring. It is much more than what was shared at the event and much more than what is presented on the IBCA website. My biggest concern about Joe Public is that Applebee's and the likes sell millions of pounds of ribs each year but that IMHO is not BBQ but that is what Joe Public thinks of when they think of ribs.

Well again thank you for the insight.
Did you happen to ask to see a judging sheet - most teams don't have the insight of asking about the judging - they just complain when they don't win - IBCA will even allow the cooks to watch the judging -

As I stated before you have the choice of competing or not in an IBCA event - if there is one in your area again offer to be a judge.

The system definitely works - the first one might be confusing but after you get accustom to the system you will see that the cream always rises to the top - as Jeff stated those teams that cook both IBCA & KCBS do well in both organizations.

Good Luck on finding a system that pleases everyone

ThomEmery
10-19-2009, 11:45 PM
We had both sanctioning bodies at Saturday Stagecoach in 2009
The CBJs and The Public agreed
The same team won both contests that day

Lynn
10-19-2009, 11:46 PM
One last thing - IBCA is the 2nd largest sanctioning organization behind KCBS - apparently we are doing something right.

Crash
10-20-2009, 06:13 AM
I just have to chime in here. Some wont like what I have to say, and I am really OK with that.

I HATED IBCA contests for the longest time. I actually slammed the IBCA format for a long time.

Why?

Lack of comments from the judges.
Lack of knowing where you finished (if you werent in the top half).
Lack of CBJ's

This is now why I really like IBCA events, although I do still prefer KCBS (sorry Lynn).

No Garnish
1 hour between turn ins
Spares only (easier to cook in MHO)
Chicken halves for turn in (easier cook in MHO)

I dont like the reading of the raffle number, but it is what it is. I think it kind of takes the fun out of hearing your team name at awards.

We'll still cook both IBCA and KCBS, but ICBA is a much easier format...again......MHO.

And I do agree with Lynn on one very significant point. The cream always does rise to the top. A team named Rhythm and Que comes to mind very quickly for me.

I'm sure there will be a lot of chatter on this, but I like both formats. I do prefer KCBS (slightly) though.

Lake Dogs
10-20-2009, 07:37 AM
BTW, I wasnt trying to rag on IBCA. The single person here who organizes and is
the head judge for IBCA here isn't good. He gives very little to no instruction to the
judges. They're pretty much left on their own. No oversight, etc. So, you end up
with the town Mayor, the Police Chief, and a few other local dipsticks that have
never judged anything in their life and think that BBQ is a grilled piece of something
smothered in a very powerful (taste) sauce... He did the same with CASI, didnt
give much if any instructions to judges, same pool, and same results. We'd have one
person give someone a 9, the next a 2, the scores were all over the chart.

There are only 2 IBCA events in Georgia, both managed/ran by this same person...

On the CASI side; some cookoffs have an additional event for Verde, most here in
the state dont. Pretty much it's CASI's Texas Red and then Open category. I guess
you could enter a verde in Open, but frankly without trained or experienced judges,
it's going to be tough sledding...

Lake Dogs
10-20-2009, 07:47 AM
And, BTW, Trey is a really nice guy and a great cook (makes a great Texas Red chili),
but giving guidance and instruction to never-judged-squat folks isn't his forte. Neither is selecting folks to be judges... So, you end up with willy-nilly...

> Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!

FYI: We're in Georgia. There's what, 6 KCBS cookoffs in Georgia (getting more and
more each year)? 2 IBCA, about 5 MIM/MBA (fewer and fewer each year), 5+- good
FBA cookoffs, and GBA now has about 5. The 2 IBCA are the smallest in the bunch. They're not getting support and are driven by one guy who wants to move back to Texas (he ain't FROM HERE). I dont think we'll have IBCA much longer 'round here...
It's not IBCA's fault, just no support.

Lake Dogs
10-20-2009, 07:54 AM
Don't give up on IBCA events. They are as good as any KCBS event and many are probably better. Don't be fooled into thinking that a CBJ is the ultimate way to go. The IBCA judging works! Look at any of the top teams that cook both IBCA and KCBS, you will find that they win both. Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!

Zilla, certified judges aren't the "ultimimate way to go", but they do enjoy
eating BBQ. I cannot tell you how many times around here (in Georgia)
at non-sanctioned events I've heard and seen judges say "I dont like that
smoke flavor"; and she was juding a BBQ event! I've seen chili judges
say they dont like chili; point blank. WTFlip are they doing judging? Around
here, unless you get certified judges, you end up with event organizers
making sweet deals with local dignitaries and such who end up judging.
They bring their entire families sometimes to judge... I've heard probably
20 times a judge say "I dont like spicy foods"; judging a CHILI contest.

<--- shakes head

Ugh.

Seriously. It's not rare. That's why, for me, as a contestant, I'll stick
with the sanctioned events that use trained/certified judges and give
serious guidance to those judges who perhaps aren't certified. GBA, FBA,
KCBS, MBA.

BBQ_Mayor
10-20-2009, 07:58 AM
I've never done an ICBA contest but I like how crash put it.
You need to take the good points out of each sacationing body and put them together IMHO.
I like the no garnish rule too and If everybody was to only cook spares and half chickens, that would even out a lot of teams. But thats for another thread.

I'd try one, but I would care for the judging.

Smoke'n Ice
10-20-2009, 09:05 AM
When my wife and I first moved to Texas, we judged an event at Traders Village prior to cooking any ICBA events. It was run by Lynn and company with Lynn being the head judge. The following were our observations and actual instructions:
1. If it looks like bbq, taste like bbq then rate it one to 10 with 1 being the worst and ten being the best in your opinion, use a fork and knife to cut off a small portion of meat (in the case of ribs, 1/4th of 1 rib) and don't touch the meat were the only instructions....
2. Husband and wife at same table
3. Husband and wife and kids at the same table
4. Wife feeding kids Q while discussing current entry with husband and both were judging
5. Excessive smoke on meat and smoking at the judging table
6. Raw chicken
7. Over a hundred teams
8. Finals brisket table (same procedure applies to all 3 meats)
9. Use a fork and knife, don't dare touch meat
10. Cut a small portion and rate
11. Meat was stone cold and extremely dry.
12. Absolutly no feedback to cooks unless you make finals table
13. No interest in other teams finish and no effective way to get any idea of where or why you failed.
14. Cream did not rise to the top at that particular contest.
15. Comments from several teams that we know and who cook KCBS when they knew we were judging "Finally we may get a fair judging."

We cooked twice after this and no longer wish to cook ICBA. Where we live in the Dallas area, we could cook almost every weekend with 100 miles if we wanted to cook ICBA. We choose to travel to OK, NM, AR, OH, Alberta and the Bedford, TX KCBS contest instead.

At least at a KCBS contest, you can practice the Principle of Continuous Improvement when positive feed back that most manufacturers use. that way you are not throwing money down a very black hole. Just my 2 cents.

Mack Yarbrough
Smoke'n Ice
Plano, TX

ZILLA
10-20-2009, 09:11 AM
If the promoter does their job and lines up judges for each event "before" the event starts you usually end up with a fine group of people who can follow instructions and judge on the criteria given them. They are usually told not to judge a particular meat if they don't like it. That makes a difference. Anyone can judge good food you don't need to stack the deck to a style to get the result you want.

I've judged a few events myself for both IBCA and Texas Gulf Coast and have tasted improperly smoked meats so hearing a judge proclaim that they don't like that smoky taste is probably an indication of a poor cook not someone who dislikes BBQ. Really, would you judge a Oyster contest if you didn't like oysters? No, I don't guess you would so that scenario is an anomaly not the norm.

I've seen many a KCBS member show a score sheet with ridiculous comments from the "expert CBJ" as well as scores that make no sense.

If you want feedback on your cooking ask a competitor who places to taste your food.

If you don't win at an IBCA cook it's not the judges that are the problem. It's the food that was tuned in.

A properly run IBCA cookoff is a fine event just as most KCBS events are fine events. Unless you have cooked a good cross section of IBCA cooks I can't see how you can knock them.

In the end the promoter and head judge make or break a contest.
In the end if a cooker doesn't win they need to improve their food.
In the end anyone can judge BBQ, it's not rocket science.

ZILLA
10-20-2009, 09:22 AM
Marty Marak and Ronnie Wade were 1st place in the big three meats at that contest with Marty GC. Whats the problem with the cream here? They both win a fair amount as far as I can remember.

MoKanMeathead
10-20-2009, 09:27 AM
I have cooked KCBS contests for several years and earlier this year Jeff@KC and I cooked an IBCA contest in Irving - it was great! We still talk about how much fun it was and how friendly and helpfull everyone was to us. We met a few Brethren that we wouldn't have otherwise met by cooking around here. Everyone gave us a lot of suggestions about what we needed to do differently "down there" but in the end we cooked just like we do at any other contest, except that we made everything very tender.

There are deffinately some things that KCBS could learn from the IBCA...and the other way around. I like the no garnish, the half chickens, and I personally liked cooking for people off the street. I didn't care for the time between turn-ins (1.5 hours) but I think it is that way because of the judging procedures.

Every body has different opinions but they really should try to cook an IBCA contest just once to see if they like it. I personnaly would lke to see the IBCA branch out up here in the "north". Lynn - bring an IBCA contest up here. :icon_devil

gmholler
10-20-2009, 09:57 AM
I think this thread proves conclusively that many cookers will complain about judges and the lack of feedback no matter WHAT organization is sanctioning a BBQ contest!

Lynn H.

Redheart
10-20-2009, 11:10 AM
Well I guess the good thing is that everyone here is passionate about good BBQ. Thank you all for your comments and insights both pro and con about the IBCA system

I was not as upset with my placement as with the lack of instruction by the rep. We did have a little talk at meat inspection but he changed the cooks' meeting from Friday night till Saturday, 1 hour before first turn in. Of course over half of us did not know this until we went to the turn in area for the meeting. He was not even on site after meat inspection. I would suggest that reps be required to be on site at least through out the daylight hours, and that cooks' meeting take place when and where it is supposed to happen. I would also suggest that the information disseminated to the judges be scripted by the IBCA Board and also provided in writing to the contestants.

As a backyarder moving into the ranks of professional Q, I am always looking to learn and improve. I feel this concept of board scripted information helps put everyone on the same playing field. After all, if I remember properly, there is no 2 minute warning in college ball but there is in the NFL. That one little change effects the strategy of how you call the game.

I loved the 1 hour separation in turn-in times. I truly like the half chicken. It really demonstrates if a contestant can cook white and dark meat. It also looks like chicken and not mechanically uniformly processed fast food versions of chicken covered in chicken skin.

The raffle concept of announcing winners still drove me crazy because it made for a long drawn out ceremony with many little glitches. Maybe I was just miserable from the blustery 40* temperature and the 20+ mph winds. I was freezing, but I do think an alternate system could be devised that still preserves the anonymity of the contestants from the judges.

Thank you again all for your comments and insights, both pros and cons. I know I said this was my first and last IBCA contest, but I will consider doing another one again, maybe, in an area that has been running them for awhile.

Lake Dogs
10-20-2009, 12:09 PM
BTW, the other IBCA contest is in Jasper, in April. Same guy. Same thing. Same
CASI tickets, as in this contest there's also a CASI cookoff...

C-Town Smoker
10-20-2009, 03:36 PM
I think you would find that there are detractors from every sanctioning body when it comes to how the judging is and how the events are set up...there seems to be no perfect governing body out there but they seem to want to keep improving...so that's a good thing.

Kevin_Texas
10-20-2009, 03:40 PM
There is no one perfect system out there. They all have their faults. The important thing is that they listen to the cooks and try to make imporvements.

CivilWarBBQ
10-20-2009, 08:09 PM
It is true that the Rep has a tremendous impact on the quality of a contest. We are indeed blessed with some of the very finest people as KCBS Reps here in the South - the fact that organizers a 500 miles away want to them to Rep events instead of using someone from their home state is proof of this.

If there is any downside to this, it's may be that the bar is set high for anyone who reps for other organizations here in Dixie.

gmholler
10-21-2009, 06:49 PM
It is true that the Rep has a tremendous impact on the quality of a contest. We are indeed blessed with some of the very finest people as KCBS Reps here in the South - the fact that organizers a 500 miles away want to them to Rep events instead of using someone from their home state is proof of this.

If there is any downside to this, it's may be that the bar is set high for anyone who reps for other organizations here in Dixie.

Just out of curiosity, are any of you aware of the costs (I'm talking money here, nothing else) involved in using those reps from 500 miles away when there's a rep in the home state? Many contest organizers(especially new contests just starting out) don't give any consideration to WHO the rep is going to be - just how much they have to pay for them(i.e. travel, lodging, etc.). And y'all realize that there IS a price(again, I mean money) for sanctioning a contest? If not, look into it - the info is on all the organizations' websites. You might just find it interesting!

Lynn H.

Keller Steeler
10-21-2009, 09:07 PM
I have cooked KCBS contests for several years and earlier this year Jeff@KC and I cooked an IBCA contest in Irving - it was great! We still talk about how much fun it was and how friendly and helpfull everyone was to us. We met a few Brethren that we wouldn't have otherwise met by cooking around here. Everyone gave us a lot of suggestions about what we needed to do differently "down there" but in the end we cooked just like we do at any other contest, except that we made everything very tender.

There are deffinately some things that KCBS could learn from the IBCA...and the other way around. I like the no garnish, the half chickens, and I personally liked cooking for people off the street. I didn't care for the time between turn-ins (1.5 hours) but I think it is that way because of the judging procedures.

Every body has different opinions but they really should try to cook an IBCA contest just once to see if they like it. I personnaly would lke to see the IBCA branch out up here in the "north". Lynn - bring an IBCA contest up here. :icon_devil

You boys going to make it down next year? I am going to make it to the Royal next year.



I started cooking KCBS in Alabama. I was a little unsure about IBCA after moving to Texas. Things like the knife and fork and no score sheets. Loved the no garnish and the hour turn in times. But, since I lived in Texas this is what I had. After a few more contests, I really started enjoying it (even will overcook my brisket for the judges:wink:). I now have a blast and love IBCA. Sure, I still would love a score sheet, but as said before there are pros and cons to each organization.

I still cook a KCBS or two every year and like it and have a blast, but I don't miss trimming those chicken thighs or the garnish during most of the contests I cook.

I will also echo that the cream of the crop rises more often than not

blues brother
10-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Hey Redheart,
I have never competed in any sanctioned event other than FBA. Therefore I will not comment on your experience.
I would like to personally invite you to three FBA events that I have cooked at. In April there are two, Smoke On The Water(Thomaston, Ga) and BBQ & Blues(Barnesville, Ga) Both of these are an hour from downtown Atlanta. Both are smalltown events. Both try to cater to the cook teams.
The third is Coweta up in Smoke...(October) Another great event that strives to make the cook teams #1. A free supper friday night and a free breakfast saturday morning.
All three have there good points and bad points. Please give all three a try. You are more than welcome to send me a PM and I would love to talk about our events.
I am also going to compete in Jasper,Ga this weekend and will report on their event.
Your are more than welcome to come and hang with the "Barnesville Blues Brothers" if you like...Please send a PM so I will know you are coming.
Just remember...the Q that you and I cook is much better than what most BBQ joints sell.
Please don't quit after one competition.
Best of luck!
Mike

Redheart
10-22-2009, 11:22 AM
Just out of curiosity, are any of you aware of the costs (I'm talking money here, nothing else) involved in using those reps from 500 miles away when there's a rep in the home state? Many contest organizers(especially new contests just starting out) don't give any consideration to WHO the rep is going to be - just how much they have to pay for them(i.e. travel, lodging, etc.). And y'all realize that there IS a price(again, I mean money) for sanctioning a contest? If not, look into it - the info is on all the organizations' websites. You might just find it interesting!

Lynn H.


I am familiar with the costs you speak of, in general as a former events manager and specifically because I read extensively the websites and have gleaned as much information as possible from each sanctioning body and each event I have entered. At $25 an event and 3 bucks a team, plus room and transportation, the fees are not so outrageous that they prohibit a quality representative.

Many of the events are fund raising events and organizational money is tight and I understand having to go with a more local representative to keep costs down. Most teams that compete, loose several hundred dollars an event between the costs of travel, meat, fuel, maintenance, etc. Of course we do it for the love of Q and the chance of deferring those costs with a money walk. What can a sanctioning body do to ensure representatives are well informed, unbiased and consistent? That is not up to the contestants to change but up to the sanctioning body to establish, implement and enforce. Consistencies in judging is always difficult in any event, but consistency in the quality, information and criteria provided by the sanctioning body, through its rep or head judge, must be a requirement asked for by the contestants of any sanctioning body and should not vary from venue to venue.

You seem to be taking this all very defensively. Is it because you are the Secretary/Treasurer of IBCA? If you are, please don't take the criticisms personally, discuss and weigh them with your members and BOD. If you are not on the BOD but a member, try taking some of these comments forward to them. Many of the comments shared have been positive about the IBCA and many have been critical but I have dismissed none and urge you to do the same. As I stated in an earlier post, I will consider doing another IBCA event, now that I have a little more insight.

When someone comments on my BBQ, especially someone who does not know me, I truly consider that comment because I believe it to be honest and not tainted by their perception of me.

Again, I know we all have a choice as to what events we attend and compete in, and opinions are like noses, we all have one, but if we dismiss everyone's opinion but our own we risk not learning or growing not only behind the pit but as a person.

Again just my 2 cents.

Redheart
10-22-2009, 11:25 AM
Hey Redheart,
I have never competed in any sanctioned event other than FBA. Therefore I will not comment on your experience.
I would like to personally invite you to three FBA events that I have cooked at. In April there are two, Smoke On The Water(Thomaston, Ga) and BBQ & Blues(Barnesville, Ga) Both of these are an hour from downtown Atlanta. Both are smalltown events. Both try to cater to the cook teams.
The third is Coweta up in Smoke...(October) Another great event that strives to make the cook teams #1. A free supper friday night and a free breakfast saturday morning.
All three have there good points and bad points. Please give all three a try. You are more than welcome to send me a PM and I would love to talk about our events.
I am also going to compete in Jasper,Ga this weekend and will report on their event.
Your are more than welcome to come and hang with the "Barnesville Blues Brothers" if you like...Please send a PM so I will know you are coming.
Just remember...the Q that you and I cook is much better than what most BBQ joints sell.
Please don't quit after one competition.
Best of luck!
Mike

Mike,
Actually the first event I ever competed in was Up in Smoke this year in Newnan. So I am familiar with the format and I enjoyed it very much. I will definitely be looking for other FBA events to compete in. Is the event this weekend in Jesper or Jesup? They are 300 miles apart!

Lake Dogs
10-22-2009, 12:17 PM
Well said! And, BTW, in this case the IBCA rep is one guy who happens
to live right there in Jasper GA; there is no travel cost. For that matter,
more often than not, he's also the event organizer (in the case of these
2 IBCA events). Saves money, but his forte ISN'T charging/instructing
or selecting judges.

Do the FBA, possibly a GBA, and KCBS events. You'll be happy.

All said as I watch the contestant trailers drive by the window for this
weekend's MIM/MBN cookoff...

blues brother
10-22-2009, 04:52 PM
Jesup...late night and I was T.U.I.(typing under the influence)
Come on down if you can.
Mike

Meat Burner
10-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Jesup...late night and I was T.U.I.(typing under the influence)
Come on down if you can.
Mike

Now that's funny. An honest brothren there.:biggrin:

blues brother
10-23-2009, 06:49 AM
I tell it like it is Brother!

thillin
10-23-2009, 06:01 PM
I have cooked KCBS contests for several years and earlier this year Jeff@KC and I cooked an IBCA contest in Irving - it was great! We still talk about how much fun it was and how friendly and helpfull everyone was to us. We met a few Brethren that we wouldn't have otherwise met by cooking around here. Everyone gave us a lot of suggestions about what we needed to do differently "down there" but in the end we cooked just like we do at any other contest, except that we made everything very tender.

There are deffinately some things that KCBS could learn from the IBCA...and the other way around. I like the no garnish, the half chickens, and I personally liked cooking for people off the street. I didn't care for the time between turn-ins (1.5 hours) but I think it is that way because of the judging procedures.

Every body has different opinions but they really should try to cook an IBCA contest just once to see if they like it. I personnaly would lke to see the IBCA branch out up here in the "north". Lynn - bring an IBCA contest up here. :icon_devil

Ya'll came down and took 1st in brisket is what ya'll did! Them jello shots will be waiting on both of ya'll!

smoke-n-my-i's
10-23-2009, 07:25 PM
l millions of pounds of ribs each year but that IMHO is not BBQ but that is what Joe Public thinks of when they think of ribs.


you end up with the town Mayor, the Police Chief, and a few other local dipsticks that have never judged anything in their life and think that BBQ is a grilled piece of something smothered in a very powerful (taste) sauce...



That is how I won 1st place at a local ribfest.... I got to thinking, general public as judges, they like Applebee's ribs...

I cook KCBS, and I had to think way out side of the box..... so, I cooked my baby backs for 5 hrs, way overdone, then sauced them with super sweet tomato based sauce.... walla... 1st place

thillin
10-25-2009, 02:21 PM
That is how I won 1st place at a local ribfest.... I got to thinking, general public as judges, they like Applebee's ribs...

I cook KCBS, and I had to think way out side of the box..... so, I cooked my baby backs for 5 hrs, way overdone, then sauced them with super sweet tomato based sauce.... walla... 1st place

That's how it is. Cook consistant Q that the public likes. They prefer fall off the bone over to the tug. Here they seem to like sweet with a little heat on ribs. And don't just slop it onto the foil in the box.