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motoeric
10-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Hi,

How would you feel about being invited to help a team with pack-up after the judging? Maybe tip back a few, chat with the cook, get an idea of what happens on the teams side of the competition fence & lend a hand cleaning and packing up.

This is in furtherance of the commendable goal expressed in the thread about finding a way to have judges and teams come to a better understanding of what they do and are responsible for.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

EatonHoggBBQ
10-12-2009, 03:28 PM
We don't have any problem helping. We've been doing it every chance we get for the past three years. I know there's one certain competitor on this forum that can attest to it.
So just ask us, we'll give anyone a hand that needs it.

SaucyWench
10-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Hubby & I have done so & would definitely do it again-need any help, just ask! We want to get to know the teams, the main reason we judge is to be around others who love to cook.

Finney
10-12-2009, 05:52 PM
I wish you guys would be at comps I'm at... I get awful tired packing up all by myself.

I really like this idea. :biggrin:

MilitantSquatter
10-12-2009, 06:16 PM
If both a team and judge are willing and linked up, it's a good idea..

but from an outsiders view I think it's pretty chitty to make cleaning up an opportunity.. Usually the teams are in a flurry of motion and socializing after the last turn in is probably not the first thing a cook wants to do..

again.. if you get willing participants on both sides, it could work but as a cook or a judge I'd probably pass.

SaucyWench
10-12-2009, 06:33 PM
If both a team and judge are willing and linked up, it's a good idea..

but from an outsiders view I think it's pretty chitty to make cleaning up an opportunity.. Usually the teams are in a flurry of motion and socializing after the last turn in is probably not the first thing a cook wants to do..

again.. if you get willing participants on both sides, it could work but as a cook or a judge I'd probably pass.


We've only done what the teams wanted us to do, toted the gray water and ashes, helped take down the shelter, added muscle or direction when needed to get the pit into a trailer, etc. No way we'd try to horn in or get in the way of somebody's routine, but we're not there to eat and run.

Ford
10-13-2009, 04:54 AM
We don't have any problem helping. We've been doing it every chance we get for the past three years. I know there's one certain competitor on this forum that can attest to it.
So just ask us, we'll give anyone a hand that needs it.

Well I guess this is where I say thanks for the help. Note that John actually did cook one contest with me instead of judging as I was looking for a helper. As a resut of that we developed a friendship that continues today. We usually spend a little time talking of Friday then I don't see John or the family until after judging unless some of them are not judging. As I usually cook by myself an extra pair of hands is great.

If both a team and judge are willing and linked up, it's a good idea..

but from an outsiders view I think it's pretty chitty to make cleaning up an opportunity.. Usually the teams are in a flurry of motion and socializing after the last turn in is probably not the first thing a cook wants to do..

Tunr-in at 1:30 and packing starts for me at 1:35. By awards I usually have the trailer ready to go. I do my socializing Friday night and Saturday morning before 11:00.

again.. if you get willing participants on both sides, it could work but as a cook or a judge I'd probably pass.

As you can see by my comments above it works but it works because both parties want it to work as you suggest. I agree if judges were just asked to help a team it might not work. And some teams have lots of people and don't need or want help as they often kick back and relax.

Note that I have gottent to know a number of judges in the upper midwest area that are regulars and I usually see them drop by after turn-in to talk for a bit. A number of them will pitch in with the heavy lifting if I'm at that point in packing. Otherwise we usually just talk and I really appreciate their comments,

Jacked UP BBQ
10-13-2009, 07:48 AM
We have a system of breaking down, any other hands imo would just get in the way. If they want to come over and shoot the chit right after before we leave thats fine, but we are usually broken down and ready to go before awards, when competing only. I think interaction with the cooks and judges is good, but not when they can be in the way.

watg?
10-13-2009, 08:06 AM
I'm with Vinny and Matt on this one. Right after the last turn in we start to tear down and pack up. Its pretty orchestrated and somewhat hectic, I am not really in the mind set for visiting. Usually, if I get a visitor during this time, the stink-eyes shot at me by the other working team members is enough for me to cut the visit short and return to the business at hand. As I have a tendency to get involved in a conversation and forget what I am supposed to be doing. The stink-eyes are just a friendly reminder. However, Friday night or Saturday after packing and before awards, stop on by and we'll have a cold one! After awards, you'll likely only see our tail lights.

early mornin' smokin'
10-13-2009, 09:26 AM
Imho, after turn ins there is nothing more i want than to sit down with a beer, cigarette and my friends and shoot the chit for a little while, usually the past few hours werent the best of times. Than, we load up, wait for the awards. If a judge wanted to come over and have a beer and shoot the chit, maybe give us little pointers cuz we're still a little green...that'd be great, but id never expect or even think to ask one of them to help me clean up.

Finney
10-13-2009, 10:53 AM
I don't think anyone is going to force you guys to accept any help loading. Or for that matter even interacting.....

The original post sort of makes that obvious.

Divemaster
10-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Hi,

How would you feel about being invited to help a team with pack-up after the judging? Maybe tip back a few, chat with the cook, get an idea of what happens on the teams side of the competition fence & lend a hand cleaning and packing up.

This is in furtherance of the commendable goal expressed in the thread about finding a way to have judges and teams come to a better understanding of what they do and are responsible for.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

I think if an open invitation was made in the judge's meeting... Something like....

"Some of you may not realize that the teams that produced this great BBQ you are about to judge, have been at it for well over 24 hours... If some of you would like, I'm sure that there are teams that would be more than thankful for any help in packing up they can get... I'm also sure that once done, they would like to hear your impressions of the food you are about to judge.

Now keep in mind that some teams are extremely organized and have this down to a science, but there are always first time teams and teams that may be short a person or two. The best way to find a team is to ask. If they need the help, they'll welcome you in. If they don't need help, I'm sure they can point you in the right direction."

A little for-warning should also be given at the cooks meeting...

pigmaker23
10-13-2009, 03:51 PM
I'm with Matt, I respect the judges generous donation of their time and money to come judge a contest and would never ask them to help "Pack Up" or do any dirty work. I would however ebcourage them to attend any Potluck or Team Dinner the night before, which offers an enviroment that is much more relaxed and social. I also think that you need to cook at least one contest with a team to find out whats its all about.

WannaBeBBQueen
10-13-2009, 05:04 PM
I'm with Matt, I respect the judges generous donation of their time and money to come judge a contest and would never ask them to help "Pack Up" or do any dirty work. I would however ebcourage them to attend any Potluck or Team Dinner the night before, which offers an enviroment that is much more relaxed and social. I also think that you need to cook at least one contest with a team to find out whats its all about.
I agree:biggrin: Would love to see the judges join us for the potluck :biggrin:

I also think that you need to cook at least one contest with a team to find out whats its all about...

I think this is the way it should be in order to judge...

SaucyWench
10-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Looks like we're all on the same page as far as judges helping clean up & break down after comps. Need help? We'll help. Need us to get out of the way? Can do!

I'm not sure how it would work to have every judge cook with a team in order to judge. When I did my cook to get my master CBJ certification (including entering my own side and sauce) it was lots of fun and lots of stress, especially when the alpha cook left me to watch the temps. Temps went down, I adjusted air flow, didn't help, what to do, what to do? Not my pit, not my meat, what if I screw everything up?

Well, I didn't screw everything up, but if I was a cook, and I didn't know the judge, I'd be a little leery about taking anyone on as anything other than as a pit b!cth.

U2CANQUE
10-13-2009, 07:29 PM
Saucy, did you make it to New Albany, IN? I was looking forward to meeting ya....

U2CANQUE
10-13-2009, 07:31 PM
I also think that you need to cook at least one contest with a team to find out whats its all about...

I think this is the way it should be in order to judge...

Isn't that a requirement for the Master Judge?.....I thought that it was pretty cool that it was a requirement for that....

I like seeing a lot of the judges that I have met from all around....I mean, Ma and Pa Kettle, some of the nicest folks that I have met.....

motoeric
10-13-2009, 07:49 PM
I also think that you need to cook at least one contest with a team to find out whats its all about.

I think that we've all been to this dance before.

If this is meant in a 'wouldn't it be nice' sorta way, fine. If it is meant as a 'this should be a requirement to judge' way, I couldn't disagree more.

The amount of time, effort and expertise that a team puts into their cooking should have no bearing on how their entree is and should be judged.

If the sanctioning body overseeing the event adds an 'effort' category, I would change my mind.

Eric

SaucyWench
10-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Saucy, did you make it to New Albany, IN? I was looking forward to meeting ya....

Yeah, we were there, how'd we miss you city boys?

Next time!

Gadragonfly
10-13-2009, 09:57 PM
I spent 20+ years, first as a volunteer worker and later a team member, in an amateur racing organization with structure and participants very similar to those of KCBS. We used to have "social events" after the qualifying sessions on Saturday that allowed the volunteer workers (timing and scoring, safety workers, technical inspectors) a chance to share a drink of choice with drivers and team members. A lot of bench racing and bragging went on and a lot of friendships were made. I wonder if something similar could be done perhaps starting 30 minutes prior to awards through 30 minutes past awards. Judges, volunteers, cooks, dishwashers, family pets can all get together and get to know each other. All members would have to be committed to make this work. It was really easy to go home at the end of a long day at the race track but once you got to the social it was a lot of fun. From there team members can determine if they want someone helping them pack up or unload and set up at the beginning of an event. I can understand anyone being reluctant to accept help from someone they don't know.

Just another idea.

motoeric
10-13-2009, 10:13 PM
That's an excellent concept! Thanks.

Eric

I spent 20+ years, first as a volunteer worker and later a team member, in an amateur racing organization with structure and participants very similar to those of KCBS. We used to have "social events" after the qualifying sessions on Saturday that allowed the volunteer workers (timing and scoring, safety workers, technical inspectors) a chance to share a drink of choice with drivers and team members. A lot of bench racing and bragging went on and a lot of friendships were made. I wonder if something similar could be done perhaps starting 30 minutes prior to awards through 30 minutes past awards. Judges, volunteers, cooks, dishwashers, family pets can all get together and get to know each other. All members would have to be committed to make this work. It was really easy to go home at the end of a long day at the race track but once you got to the social it was a lot of fun. From there team members can determine if they want someone helping them pack up or unload and set up at the beginning of an event. I can understand anyone being reluctant to accept help from someone they don't know.

Just another idea.

Ford
10-14-2009, 07:25 AM
I wonder if something similar could be done perhaps starting 30 minutes prior to awards through 30 minutes past awards. Judges, volunteers, cooks, dishwashers, family pets can all get together and get to know each other. All members would have to be committed to make this work.
Once those awards are done I'm usually pulling out and I'm not alone. Been there for 30+ hours with little sleep, no shower and all I want to do is go home. And before awards we're all doing things.

If there's a pot luck as suggested then do it then. But it's optional.

I'm available all Friday for judges to drop by and say hi. Glad to talk with them. If I'm cooking something for dinner and there's lots they are welcome to a taste.

pigmaker23
10-14-2009, 11:07 AM
you misunderstood the message, I think YOU need to cook with a team to see whats its all about, not the judges.


I think that we've all been to this dance before.

If this is meant in a 'wouldn't it be nice' sorta way, fine. If it is meant as a 'this should be a requirement to judge' way, I couldn't disagree more.

The amount of time, effort and expertise that a team puts into their cooking should have no bearing on how their entree is and should be judged.

If the sanctioning body overseeing the event adds an 'effort' category, I would change my mind.

Eric

motoeric
10-14-2009, 03:23 PM
Well, that's odd. Why do you assume that I haven't?

Eric

you misunderstood the message, I think YOU need to cook with a team to see whats its all about, not the judges.

**EDIT**

Actually, don't bother answering. I shouldn't have invited a thread hijack of my own thread.

pigmaker23
10-15-2009, 08:35 AM
What are the Tropheys like this year, hope they are the great wooden hand crafted ones that Sled got last year !

motoeric
10-15-2009, 11:24 AM
What are the Tropheys like this year, hope they are the great wooden hand crafted ones that Sled got last year !


?? Are you talking about for the Battle of the BBQ Brethren? Let's use that to steer the thread back into 'on-topic' area.

With the goal of increasing communication between judges and teams, what to people think about inviting the judges to the potlucks? A number of people have supported that idea, any nay-sayers?

Would that be a problem with association with the judges prior to judging?

If it seems workable, maybe we will try it next week and see how it goes.

Eric

ModelMaker
10-15-2009, 12:11 PM
Of the 8 or so Iowa events I know of only 2 that had any Fri. night invite the judges type activities (Lynch Stampede,Independence Brew-B-Que). I read in the Bull Sheet of other contests having Fri night doings. I think it would be great to have a potluck,weinnie roast, whatever to encourge communication and freindships between judges and cook teams. That's the reason I got into judging, now cooking, in the first place. I've made some good freinds and would like to make more...
Personaly, I would like to see the no frat rule for Sat. morning rescinded. Some events we don't camp near by or I just drive in Sat. morning. I see no reason why judges can't stop by and stand up visit for a few minutes. Most check ins are at 10:00 and so what would you see as a judge at 8:30-10:00 that would be considered inapropriate? I asked Mike Lake about it when it was enforced and he said a couple judges were seen ploped down in a teams cook tent and thus ruined it for all the rest. How about we act responsible and get over it......
ModelMaker

Jorge
10-15-2009, 12:16 PM
?? Are you talking about for the Battle of the BBQ Brethren? Let's use that to steer the thread back into 'on-topic' area.

With the goal of increasing communication between judges and teams, what to people think about inviting the judges to the potlucks? A number of people have supported that idea, any nay-sayers?

Would that be a problem with association with the judges prior to judging?

If it seems workable, maybe we will try it next week and see how it goes.

Eric

This is only somewhat tongue in cheek....

Suggest that the judges bring a dish to share:wink:

Jorge
10-15-2009, 12:19 PM
Of the 8 or so Iowa events I know of only 2 that had any Fri. night invite the judges type activities (Lynch Stampede,Independence Brew-B-Que). I read in the Bull Sheet of other contests having Fri night doings. I think it would be great to have a potluck,weinnie roast, whatever to encourge communication and freindships between judges and cook teams. That's the reason I got into judging, now cooking, in the first place. I've made some good freinds and would like to make more...
Personaly, I would like to see the no frat rule for Sat. morning rescinded. Some events we don't camp near by or I just drive in Sat. morning. I see no reason why judges can't stop by and stand up visit for a few minutes. Most check ins are at 10:00 and so what would you see as a judge at 8:30-10:00 that would be considered inapropriate? I asked Mike Lake about it when it was enforced and he said a couple judges were seen ploped down in a teams cook tent and thus ruined it for all the rest. How about we act responsible and get over it......
ModelMaker

I understand your point, and agree with it to an extent. In reality though, the rule as it's currently enforced serves to protect both judges and cooks.

Scottie
10-15-2009, 12:28 PM
This is only somewhat tongue in cheek....

Suggest that the judges bring a dish to share:wink:


Heck and I want to go to their house, while they are making it and allow me a "goodie bag" for me to take home.... :icon_shy

QN
10-15-2009, 12:29 PM
This is only somewhat tongue in cheek....

Suggest that the judges bring a dish to share:wink:

Well, I have been known to do exactly that. Over the past two or three years we have made somewhere around 3000 ABT's (stuffed jalapenos) from a recipe I came up with after reading barbecue web sites on the topic. I take them with me to contests and usually have no problem finding a team with a pit fired up willing to cook them. I'll have some at the Jack again this year. I have also freely shared the recipe with anyone who asked about it. While I have cooked several contests with different teams and started out at the first contest I attended with a cook team, I most often am in the judging tent as a judge or table captain on Saturday. Maybe the difference is that I do make an effort to show up on Friday to visit with the teams. I am fortunate to have met many cook team members I consider to be friends and hope they feel the same way.

The Giggler
10-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Personaly, I would like to see the no frat rule for Sat. morning rescinded. Some events we don't camp near by or I just drive in Sat. morning. I see no reason why judges can't stop by and stand up visit for a few minutes. Most check ins are at 10:00 and so what would you see as a judge at 8:30-10:00 that would be considered inapropriate? I asked Mike Lake about it when it was enforced and he said a couple judges were seen ploped down in a teams cook tent and thus ruined it for all the rest. How about we act responsible and get over it......
ModelMaker

Agreed on Friday Night Fraternizing. That is a lot of fun, and a good opportunity to build comraderie.

I respectfully disagree on rescinding the rule for Saturday Morning Socializing. We as cooks have a job to do, and so do the judges. Why open anything up to impropriety? Not to say that the fairness of the Double Blind System, could be influenced. Why cast that doubt?

(Generally speaking) How would you feel if you were a new team on the circuit, and saw that a veteran team who won that day, had social hour that morning with many of the judges prior to turn ins? How would you know that there was no tasting going on? Just because the meats might not be done, doesn't mean the sauces aren't ready. And so on.

After turn ins, any judge is welcome at our site (except one - Goodsmoke would know who:). Come on in, have a taste if you can bear it, and a drink. Tell me all about what you saw that day. What entries were great, what wasn't? What did you like? Etc. Its also, another good opportunity to build friendships, without possibly influencing scoring. Remember, at that point, the Fat Lady has sung.

Scottie
10-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Well, I have been known to do exactly that. Over the past two or three years we have made somewhere around 3000 ABT's (stuffed jalapenos) from a recipe I came up with after reading barbecue web sites on the topic. I take them with me to contests and usually have no problem finding a team with a pit fired up willing to cook them. I'll have some at the Jack again this year. I have also freely shared the recipe with anyone who asked about it. While I have cooked several contests with different teams and started out at the first contest I attended with a cook team, I most often am in the judging tent as a judge or table captain on Saturday. Maybe the difference is that I do make an effort to show up on Friday to visit with the teams. I am fortunate to have met many cook team members I consider to be friends and hope they feel the same way.


I'll have 2 smokers!!! :roll:

should be right along the creek, hopefully across from the picnic pavillion.

The Giggler
10-15-2009, 12:33 PM
I am fortunate to have met many cook team members I consider to be friends and hope they feel the same way.

We do. :-D

QN
10-15-2009, 12:36 PM
I'll have 2 smokers!!! :roll:

should be right along the creek, hopefully across from the picnic pavillion.

Just don't try to pack a goodie bag to take home....
True story; I took 144 ABT's to a large contest last year. I had them divided up into 6 separate containers so I could share them to be cooked at six different team sites. One of the teams had sampled them at a previous contest and instead of cooking them to share with others on that night, he hid them and took them home to cook later for himself.
I think I can find your spot at the Jack...:biggrin:

Jorge
10-15-2009, 12:42 PM
Well, I have been known to do exactly that. Over the past two or three years we have made somewhere around 3000 ABT's (stuffed jalapenos) from a recipe I came up with after reading barbecue web sites on the topic. I take them with me to contests and usually have no problem finding a team with a pit fired up willing to cook them. I'll have some at the Jack again this year. I have also freely shared the recipe with anyone who asked about it. While I have cooked several contests with different teams and started out at the first contest I attended with a cook team, I most often am in the judging tent as a judge or table captain on Saturday. Maybe the difference is that I do make an effort to show up on Friday to visit with the teams. I am fortunate to have met many cook team members I consider to be friends and hope they feel the same way.

You clearly get it!:mrgreen: Part of my point was that I'd hate to see newer judge open themselves up to the razzing that could come showing up empty handed on Friday night:eek:

QN
10-15-2009, 12:51 PM
You clearly get it!:mrgreen: Part of my point was that I'd hate to see newer judge open themselves up to the razzing that could come showing up empty handed on Friday night:eek:

I never experienced any razzing at all. Years ago when I was a neophyte judge, I would go to contests on Friday and visit with teams. Many times I was invited back for breakfast on Saturday morning (before the fraternization rule). The hospitality I experienced on those weekends is the main reason I came up with the idea of making the stuffed peppers and taking them to contests to share. Cooks know some effort goes into making those things and they appreciate it just as I appreciate the effort it takes to compete in a contest. Unfortunately I do think I am part of a minority in the judging tent. There are many judges who may only judge 3 or 4 contests a year. They show up on Saturday morning, pick up their goodie bag, and leave as soon as judging is over. They are the ones who really have no idea what it takes to get that entry onto their judging plate.

Bastey Boy
10-15-2009, 01:07 PM
I'll vouch for everything Mark has said, and then some!

The boy does, in fact, make friends.

Just sorry I'll have to wait until Memphis for another sample of them Turds...or sausages...or Tequila...or Tanqueray...well, you get the message!

motoeric
10-15-2009, 01:10 PM
This is only somewhat tongue in cheek....

Suggest that the judges bring a dish to share:wink:

Absolutely. That's how put-lucks work. Your entrance fee is some food to share.

Eric

Scottie
10-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Just don't try to pack a goodie bag to take home....
True story; I took 144 ABT's to a large contest last year. I had them divided up into 6 separate containers so I could share them to be cooked at six different team sites. One of the teams had sampled them at a previous contest and instead of cooking them to share with others on that night, he hid them and took them home to cook later for himself.
I think I can find your spot at the Jack...:biggrin:


No goodie bags for me Mark!!! lol