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Merl
09-15-2009, 08:58 PM
Temporary Rule Change - effective immediately - Parsley

Due the recall of parsley shipped to 10 different states, which have been recalled due to the risk of salmonella contamination and food poisoning in Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin. The Board of Directors has issued the follow advisory and rule change for all KCBS sanctioned contest held between this date and September 20, 2009.

The use of all types of parsley (including but not limited to curly, flat leaf, Italian or any other type) and cilantro is prohibited and shall constitute an illegal garnish and therefore be disqualified.

The decision to ban the use of parsley and cilantro is made out of abundant caution and concern for the protection of all participants including cooks, judges and visitors, as well as the effect parsley use could have upon a judge whom was concerned the product they were judging could be contaminated. This decision is made in the interest of fair competition.

This ban is only for the period stated and will not effect any other future competition unless the FDA or other authorities issue additional warnings.

Merl Whitebook
Secretary KCBS BOD

JD McGee
09-15-2009, 09:08 PM
Whew! Glad Washington State dodged that bullet or Swamprb would be freakin' this weekend...:twisted: Thanks for the heads up Merl! :-P

KC_Bobby
09-15-2009, 09:16 PM
The way I'm reading it, all KCBS sanctioned comps this weekend regardless of location.

GratefulSmoker
09-15-2009, 09:22 PM
I believe it reads that all KCBS sanctioned comps are going NO parsley until Sept. 20th......

HoDeDo
09-15-2009, 09:23 PM
Merl -
Seriously.... Fair competition??
Teams that don't frequent the forums would have no idea until after they arrived, with their parsley (which would be safe if it was on the shelves on friday...)

Fair would be to stay with the KCBS standards... which does not allow rule changes, for fairness. No rant here.... just saying, when we had the lettuce recall, KCBS didnt ban it... I think you are doing something that cause alot of consternation and pain for the teams.

KC_Bobby
09-15-2009, 09:25 PM
I'd recommend all organizers/reps to plan on having and providing a lot of greens to those in the need ... and making them quality greens.

Is it legal to dice green leaf?

ThomEmery
09-15-2009, 09:25 PM
No putting greens :(

HoDeDo
09-15-2009, 09:27 PM
Whew! Glad Washington State dodged that bullet or Swamprb would be freakin' this weekend...:twisted: Thanks for the heads up Merl! :-P

All KCBS events.... you didnt dodge the bullet.

BoneDaddy's
09-15-2009, 09:34 PM
New plans for the Harvard Fall Festival this weekend...

Ron_L
09-15-2009, 09:38 PM
Whew! Glad Washington State dodged that bullet or Swamprb would be freakin' this weekend...:twisted: Thanks for the heads up Merl! :-P

You may want to re-read what Merl posted, JD. Then you may want to give Swamp a couple of shots of Cabo :-D The recall was only in certain states, but the rule change affects all KCBS competitions this weekend.

HoDeDo
09-15-2009, 09:49 PM
MERL - I will email the full release to you if you would like, but please take this back to the board, so they have a chance to rethink this silliness. :

(From FDA recall on 9/11) ....With that in mind, even though this product is over two weeks old and most likely past the useable shelf life, we have taken immediate actions to ensure that all product is accounted for and out of the supply chain. We are working with all of our customers to insure this product is no longer being distributed." said Greg Emi, President, Muranaka Farm, Inc.

Because of Muranaka Farm's trace recall program the company was able to immediately determine which customers purchased the product in question. Muranaka's food safety protocols also ensure the company was able to determine the amount of cases harvested, the crew harvesting the product, and the field on which the parsley was grown and harvested.

Transformer BBQ
09-15-2009, 09:52 PM
Over Reaction???? by this Board? no farking way... I'm shocked.

wait... wait... nope, I'm not.

JD McGee
09-15-2009, 09:59 PM
The way I'm reading it, all KCBS sanctioned comps this weekend regardless of location.

All KCBS events.... you didnt dodge the bullet.

You may want to re-read what Merl posted, JD. Then you may want to give Swamp a couple of shots of Cabo :-D The recall was only in certain states, but the rule change affects all KCBS competitions this weekend.

Hmmm...thanks guys...I'll throw it out to the PNWBA president and see what he says...:confused:

Tweedle
09-15-2009, 10:06 PM
Glad I have been practicing for the last month putting together parsly boxes for my first comp... fffeewwwww time well spent lol

PatioDaddio
09-15-2009, 10:08 PM
FDA recalls for produce like this have been known to drag on and expand, so those going to the Jack and the Royal would be well-advised to have a plan B for your boxes.

John

Bentley
09-15-2009, 10:36 PM
Is it legal to dice green leaf?

Yes it is!

Try a lovely Chiffanod, we do it some times to give body and volume to the bottom of the box.

Glad I dont do the boxes on our team! And to think we were gonna go all parsley this weekend, maybe Veijas!

Jeff_in_KC
09-15-2009, 10:52 PM
Ridiculous! Overreaction, micromanagement, acting without accurate facts! No way would I have ever voted for this! Can't wait to see the roll call vote results!

crd26a
09-16-2009, 12:13 AM
B/C we couldn't just have all garnished banned.


Forever

nicerackbbqteam
09-16-2009, 12:34 AM
so what can we use for garnish??

Vince RnQ
09-16-2009, 12:43 AM
so what can we use for garnish??
Green leaf lettuce.

nicerackbbqteam
09-16-2009, 02:04 AM
Thank you :-)

barbefunkoramaque
09-16-2009, 02:41 AM
this one is way too easy.

swamprb
09-16-2009, 03:57 AM
All KCBS events.... you didnt dodge the bullet.


We're PNWBA. I didn't see KBCS mentioned anywhere in the Bylaws or Rules.

Anyhow they are only Judges!

pigmaker23
09-16-2009, 06:11 AM
Who Decided This,the board,or Merl ?,just one more reason to clean house at KCBS. Just another grandstanding move to get attention. remember this when its election time !!!

Smoke'n Ice
09-16-2009, 06:53 AM
Gentlemen,
The judges also read about the recall and the use of parsley could affect their mental process. If I recall information on past recalls of product, it expaned over time and went on for months. This was because of hightened awarness and a more thorough testing program at the plant level. I suspect we will see more shortly.

By the way, the way all of this is tracked is due to CFR21 requirements for tracking from the field to the store.

BBQ_Mayor
09-16-2009, 07:10 AM
Come on Merl?!.. You have to be Chitting me?
Wasn't there just a meeting that talked about mid season rule changes?

It's just another reason we should drop garnish altogther from KCBS contests.

Lakeside Smoker
09-16-2009, 07:20 AM
How are they going to tell everyone BEFORE this weekend? Not everyone goes to forums.

-Mike

BoneDaddy's
09-16-2009, 07:30 AM
How are they going to tell everyone BEFORE this weekend? Not everyone goes to forums.

-Mike

Well hopefully someone tries to use parsley and I won't finish last in Chx again....:-D

Shotgun
09-16-2009, 07:51 AM
Little late to make a rule change, the board needs to just GET RID of the garnish all together.

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 07:52 AM
Ridiculous! Overreaction, micromanagement, acting without accurate facts! No way would I have ever voted for this! Can't wait to see the roll call vote results!

WWJD - What Would Jeff Do?

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 07:53 AM
Who Decided This,the board,or Merl ?,just one more reason to clean house at KCBS. Just another grandstanding move to get attention. remember this when its election time !!!

Let's not instantly shoot the messenger on this one. Come on.

willkat98
09-16-2009, 07:56 AM
I think the Board should be commended for putting the health and safety of its constituants first.

Poker Smoker
09-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Maybe this (http://produce-display.hubert.com/plastic-parsley-garnish-dividers.html) could be an alternative?

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 08:18 AM
I think the Board should be commended for putting the health and safety of its constituants first.

If it wasn't a gross overreaction based on current FDA information, I'd agree with you. The fact of the matter is, this was an issue last week, not this week.

Buster Dog BBQ
09-16-2009, 08:21 AM
As much of a pain it is to do parsley boxes and really being a fan for no garnish when we started, I hope they don't ban garnish all together. There are so many ways to fix visual blemishes with parsley.

Big George's BBQ
09-16-2009, 08:22 AM
I think the Board should be commended for putting the health and safety of its constituants first.

I agree omly from what I hear it sound like they should have acted sooner
I also agree lets get rid of the garnish, biut I am sure that will never happen

drbbq
09-16-2009, 08:23 AM
I'm amazed at the overreaction by some cooks. What's the big deal? It's about the BBQ anyway isn't it? This is kind of like the "we need to set the sauce" nonsense.

Sledneck
09-16-2009, 08:25 AM
Merl -
Seriously.... Fair competition??
Teams that don't frequent the forums would have no idea until after they arrived, with their parsley (which would be safe if it was on the shelves on friday...)

Fair would be to stay with the KCBS standards... which does not allow rule changes, for fairness. No rant here.... just saying, when we had the lettuce recall, KCBS didnt ban it... I think you are doing something that cause alot of consternation and pain for the teams.Mr Lettuce just doesn't have a nice ring to it:biggrin:

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 08:28 AM
I'm amazed at the overreaction by some cooks. What's the big deal? It's about the BBQ anyway isn't it? This is kind of like the "we need to set the sauce" nonsense.

It isn't the same, to me. This is a rule change and a change to my process. As a cook, I'm trying to eliminate as few variables as possible. It IS about the BBQ, but now it has to be about lettuce since I have to focus on a different presentation method as well as getting my food seasoned well, cooked well, and presenting well. My personal reaction is that I now have another variable to factor in for no good reason. If public health was legitimately at risk, then it would be a different story. For me, it was all about the BBQ.

JD McGee
09-16-2009, 08:28 AM
We're PNWBA. I didn't see KBCS mentioned anywhere in the Bylaws or Rules.

Anyhow they are only Judges!

Tru-dat...but I think it would be best to err on the side of caution...for ALL concerned parties...including judges...:cool: We can live without putting greens for one comp...hey...look at it this way...it may actually be more about the meat this time! :twisted::lol:

pigmaker23
09-16-2009, 08:29 AM
its not about the parsley doc, its about the board once again acting out of fear from certain members and making rash decisions, i'm sure the worh legal action was brought up by someone if they didnt do something. :-D


I'm amazed at the overreaction by some cooks. What's the big deal? It's about the BBQ anyway isn't it? This is kind of like the "we need to set the sauce" nonsense.

Lakeside Smoker
09-16-2009, 08:37 AM
What's the big deal?

It's a huge deal for the teams that don't go to forums or do not have email and will be finding out about this rule change at the cooks meeting.

-Mike

Jacked UP BBQ
09-16-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm amazed at the overreaction by some cooks. What's the big deal? It's about the BBQ anyway isn't it? This is kind of like the "we need to set the sauce" nonsense.

I am not sure if it is about the bbq? If it is why is there a garnish rule? It sucks for teams who are going to drive two or three hours to a comp, purchase a case of parsley to just find out that they cannot use it.

Nitrofly
09-16-2009, 08:46 AM
Maybe its the first step to banning all garnish.:biggrin:
Ok I was just dreamin' out loud :icon_blush:

WannaBeBBQueen
09-16-2009, 08:47 AM
It's a huge deal for the teams that don't go to forums or do not have email and will be finding out about this rule change at the cooks meeting.

-Mike

It isn't the same, to me. This is a rule change and a change to my process. As a cook, I'm trying to eliminate as few variables as possible. It IS about the BBQ, but now it has to be about lettuce since I have to focus on a different presentation method as well as getting my food seasoned well, cooked well, and presenting well. My personal reaction is that I now have another variable to factor in for no good reason. If public health was legitimately at risk, then it would be a different story. For me, it was all about the BBQ.

I agree this would be huge for us on both counts...finding out at the last minute:eek::eusa_clap & then having to change our presentation:eek::eusa_clap:shock: I can't even imagine!! I'm glad we're not competing this weekend and I'll keep my fingers crossed for those of you that have to deal with this. Good luck to those competing, may you all have walks!:biggrin:

The Pickled Pig
09-16-2009, 08:48 AM
It's likely that some teams would have used parsley this weekend that was purchased during the recall impacted period. A case will last quite a long time when stored right. I've used a single case for 3 weeks without a problem. Why take chances?

And even if this was a "bad" decision, it's not a big deal. Why fuss over something so trivial?

WannaBeBBQueen
09-16-2009, 08:49 AM
Maybe its the first step to banning all garnish.:biggrin:
Ok I was just dreamin' out loud :icon_blush:

some days I would so agree!! don't ask me how I feel about it on Saturday nights especially! lol

bayoustylebbq
09-16-2009, 08:55 AM
I am a firm believer in "Don't shoot the messenger"... But, this issue is another knee-jerk reaction to an issue that has already been rectified. All of the contaminated parsley has been accounted for and returned...

It is time for the BOD's to wake up and make sure that they have ALL the facts before making decisions on rule changes! :icon_pissed

Nitrofly
09-16-2009, 08:56 AM
Think it's a huge waste of food.. :icon_blush:
At Harpoon they fill two big trash bags
with leftover garnish.

J.M.H.O. :icon_blush:

Sticks-n-chicks
09-16-2009, 09:04 AM
Shouldn't it be about meat...the whole meat and nothing but the meat. I have done both parsley and greanleaf boxes, parsley is much faster...but again this is BBQ...

So I thought...

Slamdunkpro
09-16-2009, 09:23 AM
OK the BoD made it's decision, fine. My question is why wasn't there a mass email to all KCBS members?

Jeff Hughes
09-16-2009, 09:25 AM
Who Decided This,the board,or Merl ?,just one more reason to clean house at KCBS. Just another grandstanding move to get attention. remember this when its election time !!!

Why would you even think that one board member would or could do this?

I think it was a poorly handled decision, but to focus on Merl is silly...

Scottie
09-16-2009, 09:40 AM
Why would you even think that one board member would or could do this?

I think it was a poorly handled decision, but to focus on Merl is silly...


You're absolutely right Jeff. Merl is the Secretary of the KCBS. Guess what one of those tasks are?

Deal with it is how I look at it. what else are we going to do? I know I've lost about $16 worth of parsley for the week, oh well. I know you will see me in my tent this weekend, playing with garnish though. I know I can make flowerettes out of lettuce somehow!!! Guess I'll need a crash course of experimentation come Saturday!!!

Tweedle
09-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Although I have yet to (until this weekend) compete and this will throw a curve at us since all we have practiced so far is putting greens. It will give us at least the opportunity to be able to show some skill in overcoming challenges. so we canít use parsley that sucks, ok. What is going to suck even more are the teams that will have no idea that this is happening, when it is to late to change anything. at the very least its wed and everyone has a couple days to practice.

Weather they should have changed the rule or not can't be fixed right now, right now we just have to focus on what we can do. and as Brethren what we can do is be creative, use our skills that we have all acquired thru the years and excel at what we do best BBQ! Garnish be damned! We are all in the same boat so no one has an advantage We can and will just step over this minor change and triumph!

I for one am not going to let this get to me at all. That being said DOES ANYONE HAVE A RECIPIES THAT CALLS FOR 10 LBS OF FRESH PARSLEY lol:icon_cool

tonto1117
09-16-2009, 09:47 AM
I think this is a knee jerk reaction to cover themselves(KCBS) from any possible litigation that might be alleged from judges claiming they became ill from parsley. OK...that almost makes sense until USDA officials can say there is no more "contaminated" parsley in the food chain. But for crying out loud, just do away with garnish alltogether for the time being to put everyone on an even playing field for many of the reasons stated above,;ie teams showing up with no prior knowlegde of this ruling.

drbbq
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
its not about the parsley doc, its about the board once again acting out of fear from certain members and making rash decisions, i'm sure the worh legal action was brought up by someone if they didnt do something. :-D

You're sure huh?

I hate judges as much as the next guy but I couldn't expect them to eat the meat laying on parsley knowing about this issue.

The Pickled Pig
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
I have done both parsley and greanleaf boxes, parsley is much faster...


Either you're really fast with parsley or really slow with lettuce. :-P

Sledneck
09-16-2009, 09:53 AM
. That being said DOES ANYONE HAVE A RECIPIES THAT CALLS FOR 10 LBS OF FRESH PARSLEY lol:icon_cool

Make some soup


Ingredients:
4-6 ounces of fresh parsley
1 14 or 16 oz can chicken stock
3 cups water
2 medium onions chopped
2 celery stalks chopped
1/2 teaspoon dried basil
1/4 teaspoon dried cilantro
2 tablespoons olive oil
4 tablespoons flour
dash pepper (to taste)
4 ounces sour cream
Directions: Begin by chopping your vegetables and parsley (hold back about 8 sprigs of parsley for garnish later). In stock pot set to medium heat, spread olive oil in bottom of pan. Toss in vegetables. Mix frequently and saute until the vegetables become tender - be sure not to cook away all the juices.
Add flour, mixing it in and making sure that it is thoroughly wet. Pour in chicken stock and water. As the soup begins to heat up and thicken add the basil, cilantro, and pepper. You can also add salt at this point, but I always leave salt content up to the diner. When the liquid has thickened, pour entire contents into a blender and puree. Pour contents back into pan if they need to be reheated before serving, or simply pour directly into bowls. Add a dollop of sour cream topped with a sprig of parsley just before serving.

Sledneck
09-16-2009, 09:54 AM
Parsley potato salad

Ingredients
8 red boiling potatoes
4 hard boiled eggs sliced
1 onion diced
1 cup chopped parsley
4 tablespoons olive oil
1 tablespoon balsamic vinegar
1 teaspoons Dijon mustard
Directions:
Clean potatoes, but do not remove the skin. Cut into bite sized chunks and boil until tender. Cut hard boiled eggs into slices. Place all ingredients in a bowl and toss lightly. Refrigerate. Serve cold.

Lake Dogs
09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
I think we all agree, the BOD is in a bad position, one where there is no winning. If you
dont act; potential law suit, BIG TIME. If you do act, then confusion grande (as we
now have) and everyone is ticked off (no matter which side of the fence you're on).
Ok, it's bad.

This does beg the question that's obviously been posed and debated until we're all
green: WHY ALLOW GARNISH in the first place?

For me, I think it's about the Q, and removing anything non-Q from the box leaves
little room for a judge to judge something that isn't Q. Therefore, it IS about the Q,
and that's all that's in a box, and it will be judged as such, leaving no argument.

Side note: if we remove garnish, we never have to retrace these steps again. Next
time it'll be lettuce, then this again, etc. Nothing fixed is nothing fixed.

BBQ_Mayor
09-16-2009, 10:06 AM
But for crying out loud, just do away with garnish alltogether for the time being to put everyone on an even playing field for many of the reasons stated above,;ie teams showing up with no prior knowlegde of this ruling.

Now we are on a level playing field. Lettuce only.
I'm looking forward to it, I hated doing those damn parsley boxes.

Lake Dogs
09-16-2009, 10:09 AM
Now we are on a level playing field. Lettuce only.
I'm looking forward to it, I hated doing those damn parsley boxes.

Actually, an unnotified team showing up with only parsley will be at
a disadvantage. I agree with the earlier, just do away with garnish
altogether, whether temporarily or permanent.

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 10:14 AM
What would happen if there was a recall on Tyson Chicken?

What would Brian Boitano do?

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 10:17 AM
I've heard that one of Jeff Stith's platform ideas for the 2010 KCBS BOD election is a Parsley Bailout. If you purchased parsley for this week's competition, return your receipt to the KCBS for a full refund.

tonto1117
09-16-2009, 10:17 AM
Now we are on a level playing field. Lettuce only.
I'm looking forward to it, I hated doing those damn parsley boxes.

If the rule stands with the dates stated, I don't have a pony in this race...taking the weekend off. Plus I'm a switch hitter...I can go either way.:biggrin:

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Now we are on a level playing field. Lettuce only.
I'm looking forward to it, I hated doing those damn parsley boxes.

I'm going naked boxes at Kearney, so I just leveled the playing field even further. If only I could go boxless and just turn in meat in my hands. It isn't a Styrofoam contest!!!! Dayam!

The Pickled Pig
09-16-2009, 10:22 AM
What would happen if there was a recall on Tyson Chicken?



Most teams cook their chicken but do not sanitize their parsley.

The Pickled Pig
09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm going naked


You lost me at naked.

tonto1117
09-16-2009, 10:26 AM
I'm going naked boxes at Kearney, so I just leveled the playing field even further. If only I could go boxless and just turn in meat in my hands. It isn't a Styrofoam contest!!!! Dayam!

Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go,Go....WOOOOHOOOO:eusa_clap:eusa_ clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:biggrin:

Bentley
09-16-2009, 10:28 AM
It would have been a good opportunity to have KCBS say no garnish at all this weekend. Beta.

KC_Bobby
09-16-2009, 10:28 AM
I see both sides to this issue.

But want to add one thing ... I'd bet that a high number of teams that do parsley beds frequent this forum, Ray's and/or another forum or two that I'm sure has brought up the temporary ban.

I really can't see that many teams showing up this Friday with the intent of making parsley beds. Sure, some new or local teams might have some parsley with them to add in with their green leaf boxes. If each organizer has a case of two of greens on hand and/or talk to each team at check in to see if they need greens (then deliver it to the teams as needed) it can be worked around for one weekend.

Plowboy
09-16-2009, 10:29 AM
You lost me at naked.

You won't lose me this weekend all naked and such. Will be pretty easy to spot.

JD McGee
09-16-2009, 10:38 AM
I think we should all go naked...:cool:...I'm not seeing a problem here at all...Swamprb is our box man...I'll let him deal with it...:twisted: He spends hours on end doing the putting greens...granted...they look farkin' awesome...but what will he do with all that extra time on his hands? :lol::lol::lol:

Smoky River BBQ
09-16-2009, 10:39 AM
You won't lose me this weekend all naked and such. Will be pretty easy to spot.

that almost sounds like bragging!! :razz:

Sorry...couldn't resist!

early mornin' smokin'
09-16-2009, 11:28 AM
why wont they just get rid of this damn garnish all together, we are all there to que, not make farking salads, put a piece of aluminum foil in the bottom so u dont burn right thru the box, we'd know right away who did any last minute saucing and primping

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
09-16-2009, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=KC_Bobby;1027879]I see both sides to this issue.

But want to add one thing ... I'd bet that a high number of teams that do parsley beds frequent this forum, Ray's and/or another forum or two that I'm sure has brought up the temporary ban.



Bob, no offense, but I think thats a naive statement (the rule change notification is irrelevant if you do beds or use it as accent). In the KC area that maybe true but of the 40 teams at our contest next week, only 5 are brethren and I am on Rays forum and only know of 2 there ... At least half a dozen didnt even have an email address for communication. Tom and I are taking a proactive approach in case this goes on another week...to make sure they are all aware and we can help them through the temporary change. At the VERY LEAST I hope all organizers were PERSONALLY contacted with this information for this weekend....(and I dont mean a global email...I mean the rep better have called them already and is working through how to help them....) (Claws out statement: IF THE REPS HAVE EVEN BEEN TOLD BEYOND A FORUM POST...retracting claws)

Lake Dogs
09-16-2009, 11:48 AM
Bingo, Bride of Roo. Most teams 'round here AREN'T Brethren. 99%, I'd say. Many
dont use email. Unless called, they're screwed. That's this weekend, and frankly for
probably the next 2 or 3 weekends, possibly even farther. Remember the tomato
scare earlier!

I rather expect they'll break this news to teams at the team meeting, and then watch
the feces hit the fan!

BBQ_Mayor
09-16-2009, 12:48 PM
You won't lose me this weekend all naked and such. Will be pretty easy to spot.

I'll bring the camara. No pics, didn't happen. :razz:

KC_Bobby
09-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Bob, no offense, but I think thats a naive statement (the rule change notification is irrelevant if you do beds or use it as accent). In the KC area that maybe true but of the 40 teams at our contest next week, only 5 are brethren and I am on Rays forum and only know of 2 there ... At least half a dozen didnt even have an email address for communication. Tom and I are taking a proactive approach in case this goes on another week...to make sure they are all aware and we can help them through the temporary change. At the VERY LEAST I hope all organizers were PERSONALLY contacted with this information for this weekend....(and I dont mean a global email...I mean the rep better have called them already and is working through how to help them....) (Claws out statement: IF THE REPS HAVE EVEN BEEN TOLD BEYOND A FORUM POST...retracting claws)

First I commend you for taking prep steps in case the ban goes on longer and agree other organizers need to take proactive steps and phone EACH of their teams.

However, what percentage of teams do you think make parsley beds? Of the handful of times I've judged I can't think of any that have had over half of the boxes I judged being parsley. I can't speak for other parts of the country as I've only judged within the KC metro.

I believe it's highly likely that a high number of competitors planning on making parsley beds are in the know by now. It's highly likely that teams that put the effort into putting together parsley beds are not fly by the seat of your pants teams - they are BBQ enthusiasts that have their own systems and procedures, they communicate with their peers - whether that be forums, phones or over coffee. They are the teams that are able to overcome and adapt - they've dealt with 9x9 styrofoam issues before.

All that said, I'm not saying their isn't a potential issue or that it's not possible for someone not to know. In fact, I'd guess a good percentage of the teams not doing parsley beds may not don't know. Sure a team or two across the country are going to show up and not know and have that jaw dropping look as they are told. But if they really believe that's going to make or break their turn ins, who are they kidding but themselves? It's not like they are the only team not allowed to use parsley.

How many of us thought about doing a parsley bed before seeing one?

CajunSmoker
09-16-2009, 01:01 PM
I'm not cooking this weekend, but if I were it would ungarnished boxes for me ala IBCA style.

lunchlady
09-16-2009, 01:04 PM
hee hee hee hee

lunchmeat will be having refresher lettuce classes in Harvard, MA at about noon on Sunday (hee hee)... feel free to stop by :>

michelle (still giggling)

Bastey Boy
09-16-2009, 01:09 PM
Anybody wanna buy a case of parsley?! :biggrin:

Kidding, of course. This just serves yall right fer spending some much dern time and effort on those foolish putting greens!

Next step: No garnish allowed

lunchlady
09-16-2009, 01:16 PM
However, what percentage of teams do you think make parsley beds? ...
I can't speak for other parts of the country ...

I think you'd find that an enormous percentage of teams up heah use parsley boxes... we usually are in the minority, but that's according to teams shooting the sh*t, NOT judges. Since I havent judged BBQ in a while I can't know fer sure but I'd like to know ...

(still giggling) :lol:

JD McGee
09-16-2009, 01:26 PM
I posted the notice on our PNWBA forum and caught nothing but flak. Because we are not KCBS no one cares...oh well...I tried. No skin off my Ashtabula...I ain't eatin' the stuff.

Bastey Boy
09-16-2009, 01:35 PM
I posted the notice on our PNWBA forum and caught nothing but flak. Because we are not KCBS no one cares...oh well...I tried. No skin off my Ashtabula...I ain't eatin' the stuff.

Hehehe...

Hahahahahahaha!


Bwaaaahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

:lol:

GratefulSmoker
09-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Going to be a huuuuuge jump in green leaf lettuce sales this weekend! Produce managers aren't going to know what hit them!!

The Pickled Pig
09-16-2009, 01:49 PM
we'd know right away who did any last minute saucing and primping

And this information would be useful how?

Parsley Lady
09-16-2009, 01:54 PM
I think they should have said no garnish so no team gets blindsided. I'm sure most of the teams have extra garnish with them and would be more than willing to share with a team that didn't hear the news. Maybe take a extra head of leaf lettuce with i'm sure it will be hard to find in the stores close to competition. If its not needed you can plan to have a salad with dinner during the next week. Sorry to all who spent the money on the parsley already. Maybe I should change my name to lettuce lady :-D

bayoustylebbq
09-16-2009, 02:50 PM
You won't lose me this weekend all naked and such. Will be pretty easy to spot.


And those us us at Blue Springs already got the "back half" of that show.... :lol::lol::lol:

Brew-B-Q
09-16-2009, 03:01 PM
I bet appearance scores will go up this weekend as judges will be sympathetic to the rules change.

pigmaker23
09-16-2009, 03:33 PM
A random survey of four Resturant Depots in three states revealed that they all had parsley in stock and were not aware of any problem or recall, same story at Sysco and US Food Service. It would seem to me if the product is readly available and being sold by these massive purveyors to thousands of food service establishments that there is no problem any longer, (if there ever was one) And I did enjoy the parsley garnish i had for lunch today !:-P

GratefulSmoker
09-16-2009, 04:01 PM
[And I did enjoy the parsley garnish i had for lunch today !:-P[/QUOTE]

Wow, you risk taker!!! :biggrin:

Skip
09-16-2009, 04:02 PM
Why worry folks? This is all just nonsense right? :icon_sleepy Its about the BBQ isn't it? :icon_sleepy Stop overreacting. :oops:

The_Kapn
09-16-2009, 04:05 PM
Question,

Since most folks say that the garnish is not to be judged...
What does it matter if it is parsley, or lettuce, or none ?

Just curious since it a basic conflict to say it does not count and then to be concerned with the type for something that does not count. :lol:

Just curious.
Anyone help me understand??????

TIM

Skip
09-16-2009, 04:14 PM
Presentation seems to dictate better appearance scores or at least that is the perception of many competitors. Since many people rely on parsley to effect the presentation they want it becomes an issue when you can't use the product you are comfortable with. The concern with the competitor then falls on changing up the presentation which takes away from the real issue of cooking good food. If you've always done well with chicken when you spun around two times and farted what would happen if you were told you could only spin once and fart. :shock::shock::shock:
You'd probably be upset and a little less dizzy. No matter how ridiculous the practice may seem to others its still their routine. :grin::grin::grin:

Thats just my take on it.

ique
09-16-2009, 04:20 PM
Cause a lot of people are heading out to big contests and the last thing they want to do is to change up their program at the last minute.

Question,

Since most folks say that the garnish is not to be judged...
What does it matter if it is parsley, or lettuce, or none ?

Just curious since it a basic conflict to say it does not count and then to be concerned with the type for something that does not count. :lol:

Just curious.
Anyone help me understand??????

TIM

NorthwestBBQ
09-16-2009, 04:22 PM
I think we should all go naked...:cool:...I'm not seeing a problem here at all...Swamprb is our box man...I'll let him deal with it...:twisted: He spends hours on end doing the putting greens...granted...they look farkin' awesome...but what will he do with all that extra time on his hands? :lol::lol::lol:

Pace around with the "pirate eye?" :lol:

Bentley
09-16-2009, 04:31 PM
Just curious.
Anyone help me understand??????

TIM


Well you have Theoretial World and you have Real World!

Smoke'n Ice
09-16-2009, 05:18 PM
I own a small cafe and tea room in University Park near SMU and removed fresh parsley from the plates as well as any menu items. Why? The preception of the customer. Learned from the tomato scare that explaining it to every customer was not the best way to go.

Theoretical, what if one judge were to get sick and die and it was traced to parsley. Who would be sued? KCBS comes to mind and since we are members, would we be liable for any awards over and above the insurance? With the decision of the BoD, that is now a mute point.
Mack

Meat Burner
09-16-2009, 05:19 PM
I'll take some cheese with that whine please. Sounds like a lot of folk can't deal with a curve ball very well. No huge crisis here IMO. Deal with it, adapt, and enjoy the events.

Westexbbq
09-16-2009, 06:43 PM
Many of us got the official email this evening from the KCBS getting the word out.

Tweedle
09-16-2009, 07:40 PM
I'll take some cheese with that whine please. Sounds like a lot of folk can't deal with a curve ball very well. No huge crisis here IMO. Deal with it, adapt, and enjoy the events.

:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap
+1

BBQchef33
09-16-2009, 08:22 PM
setting aside the decision making process.. iw ont comment on that. but regarrding the facvt that thats the rul for this week.. personally, i dont cares if its parsley or lettuce?.. the puting green is popular now, but years ago, it was all greens. i makde my share of them and theres trophies won withthem.. and I'm sure any veteran competitor also has made greens boxes.

It will be a level playing field, no putting greens/parley boxes from anyone, so IMO, whats the big deal? Part of competing is facing adversity and challenges. Be it wind, rain, wet wood, controlling your smoke, your temps.... Oh wait. i forgot.. some dont have that problem, ok, electricity goes out.. what-ever.. its a box of parlsey.. You are competitors.... The contests this week have a twist... Use the green leaf and make it look good and win...

ThomEmery
09-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Yes it is!

Try a lovely Chiffanod, we do it some times to give body and volume to the bottom of the box.

Glad I dont do the boxes on our team! And to think we were gonna go all parsley this weekend, maybe Veijas!

That could look nice

ThomEmery
09-16-2009, 08:27 PM
I'll take some cheese with that whine please. Sounds like a lot of folk can't deal with a curve ball very well. No huge crisis here IMO. Deal with it, adapt, and enjoy the events.

Plus 2

nancee
09-16-2009, 08:31 PM
next maybe we can all stop turning in thighs???
greenleaf here I come!!!!

Cause a lot of people are heading out to big contests and the last thing they want to do is to change up their program at the last minute.

nancee
09-16-2009, 08:34 PM
its not supposed to be but it is on my circuit...big time
I would love to see the whole mess go no garnish because I am tired of the parsley bs...


Question,

Since most folks say that the garnish is not to be judged...
What does it matter if it is parsley, or lettuce, or none ?

Just curious since it a basic conflict to say it does not count and then to be concerned with the type for something that does not count. :lol:

Just curious.
Anyone help me understand??????

TIM

Diva
09-16-2009, 08:36 PM
We cook approximately 30 contests a year. We can and have always 'adapted'. The point is that the recall is old news. All that crap parsleys been accounted for and trashed. I find it almost insane that the Board would go sh!t nuts over a post on another forum. If someone on that board had actually contacted the company, they would have known that the parsley's fine, as of this date. It's ridiculous.

nancee
09-16-2009, 08:39 PM
I'm with you dude!!!
Sadly I bet the guys bitching remember exactly how to make lettuce boxes; they just hate to give up this assinine advantage they have recently gained...

Anybody wanna buy a case of parsley?! :biggrin:

Kidding, of course. This just serves yall right fer spending some much dern time and effort on those foolish putting greens!

Next step: No garnish allowed

Meat Burner
09-16-2009, 08:46 PM
Thom, no hill for a climber. Don't sweat the small stuff. This is small stuff IMO.

BBQchef33
09-16-2009, 08:48 PM
like I said.. ASIDE FROM the decision(and)process, which I file under 'goofy'...... (for the record, im not competing this week, but if i were.. break out the lettuce! Farking lettuce boxes are so much easier than putting greens.

nancee
09-16-2009, 08:51 PM
or romaine or bostone or bibb...etc

geez, what a big todo about nothing...
suggest each team bring 1 extra head of lettuce for all the allegedly nonconnected contestants who won't know about the ban...

Green leaf lettuce.

JD McGee
09-16-2009, 08:54 PM
like I said.. ASIDE FROM the decision(and)process, which I file under 'goofy'...... (for the record, im not competing this week, but if i were.. break out the lettuce! Farking lettuce boxes are so much easier than putting greens.

Here here...:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

watertowerbbq
09-16-2009, 08:56 PM
The only fair option would have been to remove all garnish from all boxes this weekend. Anything beyond that, some possible unfairness exists.

I'm really confused that the board felt strongly enough to render this decision, yet failed to see the simplest of all remedies, removing all garnish this weekend.

Jeff_in_KC
09-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Most of the ruckus is not over not being able to use putting greens... it's about a knee jerk reaction by the board when there is no problem that exists out there. Would I be happy if I were competing this weekend? No. I like the way it looks. But that's easy for me to say - my wife does the putting greens and I rarely have to even touch the stuff! Of course I like 'em. Plus I like how the food sits up on the putting greens as opposed to down in the lettuce hole. And whoever said us putting green people had an assinine advantage... there's no advantage, especially since ANYONE can do it.

Skip
09-16-2009, 09:27 PM
The benefits of having a sanctioned BBQ contest are numerous. The Kansas City Barbeque Society (KCBS) is the world's largest organization of barbeque and grilling enthusiasts. KCBS sanction more than 200 contests across the U.S. annually. A sanctioned contest offers the organizer:


(1) Integrity,
(2) Experience,
(3) A built in base of cookers and judges, and
(4) A support system of other organizers and members.


Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome.

I think we should respect the fact that the other side does still have a right, and reason, to feel the way they do. No matter how foolish it may seem. In my opinion this is a BOH issue. I read what KCBS offers in sanctioning an event. I see nothing about monitoring sanitary conditions or the like. In no way would they be liable.

Yes it seems totally ridiculous I agree but I still see the fact that there is truly question there. What will come out of contests which operate under this revised rule schedule? Is there not a chance that an RGC who loses by a coin toss san't cry foul if he can show below average box scores and show a history of putting greens with excellent scores. It would be our asterisk. :lol:

They shouldn't have involved themselves without discussion.

nancee
09-16-2009, 09:29 PM
is that the judges are supposed to ignore all garnish and just judge the meat

Most of the ruckus is not over not being able to use putting greens... it's about a knee jerk reaction by the board when there is no problem that exists out there. Would I be happy if I were competing this weekend? No. I like the way it looks. But that's easy for me to say - my wife does the putting greens and I rarely have to even touch the stuff! Of course I like 'em. Plus I like how the food sits up on the putting greens as opposed to down in the lettuce hole. And whoever said us putting green people had an assinine advantage... there's no advantage, especially since ANYONE can do it.

nancee
09-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Guys,
this is one of the silliest discussions I have been involved with here
I hav been around for a fairly long time
we ALL used to make lettuce boxes till a couple teams discovered that putting greens scored better and taught it in their classes...
after that it was lemmings off the cliff...
we are capable of making pretty lettuce boxes and no oe can suffer as everyone must either use lettuce or go naked...

The only fair option would have been to remove all garnish from all boxes this weekend. Anything beyond that, some possible unfairness exists.

I'm really confused that the board felt strongly enough to render this decision, yet failed to see the simplest of all remedies, removing all garnish this weekend.

smokincracker
09-16-2009, 09:36 PM
No need to use them....Give it a try!
The results might suprise you. The judges know they are not to judge the greens so why not make the meat the star and leave out the greens.

BBQchef33
09-16-2009, 09:43 PM
Guys,
this is one of the silliest discussions I have been involved with here
I hav been around for a fairly long time
we ALL used to make lettuce boxes till a couple teams discovered that putting greens scored better and taught it in their classes...
after that it was lemmings off the cliff...
we are capable of making pretty lettuce boxes and no oe can suffer as everyone must either use lettuce or go naked...


bAda BiNg.

And after this discussion, Im going to disney world!

BRBBQ
09-16-2009, 09:50 PM
Maybe this is the time to remove all garnish from comps! Lets Vote!

JD McGee
09-16-2009, 09:51 PM
Badda Boom! :-P

Jeff_in_KC
09-16-2009, 09:51 PM
is that the judges are supposed to ignore all garnish and just judge the meat

I agree that's SUPPOSED to be the way it is but you and I both know that in the real world, it can't happen. A perfect putting green of parsley can make the meat look better because it's a better "frame" and a judge might not even know WHY he thinks it looks good... only that it does look really nice. I liken it to putting the Mona Lisa in a fancy expensive frame or a Wal Mart frame. It's still the Mona Lisa either way... it's just gonna look a hell of a lot better in a thousand dollar frame than it would in a $5 Wal Mart frame.

Meat Burner
09-16-2009, 10:10 PM
KCBS does garnish...live with it brethern. If you don't agree, enter somewhere else and tel us how wonderful your Q is. Don't bash their sanction and live with it. Worry about something else bros.

CaptainLink
09-16-2009, 10:20 PM
I'd never seen a putting green before I found this forum last night. You guys do beautiful work. Right when I started contemplating building my own I saw the message about parsley being banned. I guess I'll keep my time this weekend and have more practice before the next competition. Still looking forward to trying it out though. I hate burying meat in lettuce.

Slamdunkpro
09-16-2009, 10:21 PM
Maybe this is the time to remove all garnish from comps! Lets Vote!

not so fast there - Mid Atlantic BBQ Association rules have been around and specify no garnish. KCBS would be violating our Intellectual Property rights by using "no garnish":biggrin::tongue::cool::wink:

Jeff_in_KC
09-16-2009, 10:48 PM
not so fast there - Mid Atlantic BBQ Association rules have been around and specify no garnish. KCBS would be violating our Intellectual Property rights by using "no garnish":biggrin::tongue::cool::wink:

LMAO!!!!! :lol::lol::lol: Now that's funny stuff! hehehe! Would one of your board members take it upon himself to send KCBS an unauthorized cease and desist letter on his own letterhead?

CivilWarBBQ
09-17-2009, 01:08 AM
The only fair option would have been to remove all garnish from all boxes this weekend. Anything beyond that, some possible unfairness exists.

I'm really confused that the board felt strongly enough to render this decision, yet failed to see the simplest of all remedies, removing all garnish this weekend.

I have to call you on that one.

According to your logic, teams that have experience turning in boxes with NO garnish would have an advantage if all garnish were banned.

In my part of the country there are quite a few teams who cook both KCBS and FBA, and FBA has always been greens-free.

It's only two weeks and the rule change affects everyone the equally. I think we're making a mountain of a molehill here.

C-Town Smoker
09-17-2009, 04:56 AM
So here's my two cents...I think it's weird that the KCBS rules don't mandate that garnish needs to be in the box (it should be a rule) vs. keeping it as "optional". From what I have been told by some of the BOD at the KCBS, this item has come up for vote more than a few times but ends up staying the same every time, that being optional.

Why not vote to make it a rule so it does not linger in this gray area...and I call it gray area because how many teams don't garnish at a KCBS event. Since it is listed as an optional item you technically shouldn't be penalized if you don't put it in a run in box, but, I think we all know that if you have the BEST bbq that day and it's not in a garnished box, you aren't going to win that event. Judges are accustomed to seeing the garnish boxes and if you open a box without it, it would be such a departure from what they have been seeing all day it could cost you a check...which it shouldn't because it's not a rule.

If you vote it in as a rule...I'm good with that. If you vote it out all together...I'm good with that too. But leaving it as optional just doesn't make sense to me.

Lake Dogs
09-17-2009, 06:37 AM
So here's my two cents...I think it's weird that the KCBS rules don't mandate that garnish needs to be in the box (it should be a rule) vs. keeping it as "optional". From what I have been told by some of the BOD at the KCBS, this item has come up for vote more than a few times but ends up staying the same every time, that being optional.

Why not vote to make it a rule so it does not linger in this gray area...and I call it gray area because how many teams don't garnish at a KCBS event. Since it is listed as an optional item you technically shouldn't be penalized if you don't put it in a run in box, but, I think we all know that if you have the BEST bbq that day and it's not in a garnished box, you aren't going to win that event. Judges are accustomed to seeing the garnish boxes and if you open a box without it, it would be such a departure from what they have been seeing all day it could cost you a check...which it shouldn't because it's not a rule.

If you vote it in as a rule...I'm good with that. If you vote it out all together...I'm good with that too. But leaving it as optional just doesn't make sense to me.

That's a very interesting point. I 100% agree. Do it 100%, or dont do it
100%, but this gray never-never land saying "disregard the garnish and
only judge the meat" cannot be done by a human.

BBQ_Mayor
09-17-2009, 06:41 AM
True, it's hard for a human to disregard the garnish. They say not to take the smoke ring into count either but you know it gets judged that way.


(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/RaulMonkey/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)

ique
09-17-2009, 06:47 AM
its not supposed to be but it is on my circuit...big time
I would love to see the whole mess go no garnish because I am tired of the parsley bs...

I never understood this. What parsley BS? Who cares if teams use parsley or not? Let me re-state that... why do you care if a team uses a bed of parsley to present contest meat?

KCBS can change the presentation rules anyway they want as far as I am concerned - in the "off-season". The issue is if they are going to make a change a couple days before contests there better be a DAMN good reason.

Jeff_in_KC
09-17-2009, 07:25 AM
Chris, that's one of my main contentions... that no rules should be changed during the season and and even then, not without significant notice to the contests and teams. Rushed decisions rarely work out for the best for anyone.

Uncle Buds BBQ
09-17-2009, 07:51 AM
Why don't we see if we can get the board to allow broccoli for the next 2 weeks? Mmmmmm...I can see an undulating putting green of broccoli.

Then I would be "choppin broccoli" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO57XRDDodk

lunchlady
09-17-2009, 08:02 AM
I was at the Rules Meeting this past January, along with MANY other cooks, and UNBELIEVABLY, there was no cry out from the members for no garnish...
it's my understanding that this issue has been addressed numerous times in years past, but if all y'all want KCBS to change the garnish rules then you HAVE to TELL THEM before the next Rules Meeting so that they can discuss it at that time, bring it up to a 'pretend vote' of the members present, and them it will go to the BoD meeting for discussion and their vote.... that is the way it is supposed to work, ranting about it is not going to do much of ANYTHING except maybe relieve some stress and give everyone a good laugh.

Oh, maybe that's just me laughing (still)...

Hey Cracker... those boxes, oops... I mean the meat, looks BEE-YOOO-TIFUL!!!!

Skip
09-17-2009, 08:18 AM
If there is a health issue it should be addressed by the HEALTH department. By changing the rules ahead of concerns from local health departments they compromise their rules. This causes a shift in expectation which compromises integrity. Integrity is one of the things we appreciate about a KCBS sanctioned event. Its one of the reasons we choose to do sanctioned events as opposed to non sanctioned events.

We've all done non sanctioned events and we all have horror stories about this problem and that change and the lack of consistency and execution.

Do I think that this is the end of any legitimacy that KCBS has....NO. Do I worry about the board setting a precedent and finding themselves on a slippery slope...YES. Even if they were to express concern for their membership by informing the local BOH of information they were privy to it would be better. Then the local health department could make the decision and effect the rule change due to health concerns.

C-Town Smoker
09-17-2009, 08:31 AM
Chris, I agree that there should be no changes during the season!! I am intrigued as to why the membership of the KCBS wants to leave garnish as optional though...WEEEEIRD!!

Sticks-n-chicks
09-17-2009, 08:35 AM
Either you're really fast with parsley or really slow with lettuce. :-P

Both:icon_shy

Sticks-n-chicks
09-17-2009, 08:36 AM
If they are going to ban Parsley and the majority of the teams use parsley then they should suspend all garnish until Parsley can be used again... I believe the term is supposed to be "a level playing field"

The Pickled Pig
09-17-2009, 08:47 AM
Chris, I agree that there should be no changes during the season!! I am intrigued as to why the membership of the KCBS wants to leave garnish as optional though...WEEEEIRD!!

I think it's kind of weird someone wants their freedom and choices limited.

First, how would you mandate garnish? Would you require a certain amount of lettuce or parsley to be used or would a single piece of parsley meet your garnish requirement?

Second, a good percentage of teams eliminate themselves from serious contention because of their poor or lazy presentation skills. For competitive reasons I would be highly opposed to anything that prevents other teams from self elimination.

Sledneck
09-17-2009, 08:56 AM
You think KCBS will now put an asterisk * after the TOY's name now a la Roger Maris because of this? :biggrin:

musicmanryann
09-17-2009, 08:57 AM
"For competitive reasons I would be highly opposed to anything that prevents other teams from self elimination."

Here here! Lol!

Sledneck
09-17-2009, 09:07 AM
KCBS does garnish...live with it brethern. If you don't agree, enter somewhere else and tel us how wonderful your Q is. Don't bash their sanction and live with it. Worry about something else bros.
I would enter elsewhere but the KCBS is the only game in town around here. Sure wish the FBA would do a contest up here (sigh) :biggrin:

willkat98
09-17-2009, 09:34 AM
Is this September or February?

This kinda debate usually waits until Winter Psychosis has set in.

Just saying...

.

Lake Dogs
09-17-2009, 09:35 AM
I think it's kind of weird someone wants their freedom and choices limited.

First, how would you mandate garnish? Would you require a certain amount of lettuce or parsley to be used or would a single piece of parsley meet your garnish requirement?

Second, a good percentage of teams eliminate themselves from serious contention because of their poor or lazy presentation skills. For competitive reasons I would be highly opposed to anything that prevents other teams from self elimination.

Forgive my sarcasm, but:

> I think it's kind of weird someone wants their freedom
> and choices limited.

Limited... to BBQ.

lunchlady
09-17-2009, 09:41 AM
... the KCBS is the only game in town around here.

...coming from a NEBS NY state rep...

... just farkin' with ya Sled...

Back on topic...

:-D Is is winter already?... This garnish discussion sure sounds like it.

Lake Dogs
09-17-2009, 09:44 AM
If it's 5 o'clock somewhere, I imagine it must be winter somewhere....

C-Town Smoker
09-17-2009, 09:59 AM
Paul,

I don't know what is really limiting the freedoms...sure you have the freedom to not garnish a box but who would do that? Everyone is using it already so it wouldn't be much of a change. I also think that if its mandatory then teams will need to improve their garnished box because then it would count against them when its opened at the table...which addresases the self-eliminating teams. Then they would have to own their scores...the way it sits now you can't make that argument 100% clear because its sits as optional.

To that point, it's my understanding that when judges are being trained they should not concern themselves with how garnish looks in the box as a determining factor to what score they will give...but I'm sure most would agree that they do. I would hate to think that I lost out on a check because my grass wasn't up to par for the judges taste.

Plowboy
09-17-2009, 10:09 AM
I vote for pickles as an optional garnish. Viva la Pickle!

Bentley
09-17-2009, 10:25 AM
but, I think we all know that if you have the BEST bbq that day and it's not in a garnished box, you aren't going to win that event.

I would disagree with this statement.

Sledneck
09-17-2009, 10:52 AM
...coming from a NEBS NY state rep...

... just farkin' with ya Sled...

Back on topic...

:-D Is is winter already?... This garnish discussion sure sounds like it.When NEBS sanctions a no garnish BBQ contest I will be the first to sign up:biggrin:

Jeff Hughes
09-17-2009, 11:11 AM
Is the horse dead yet?

ique
09-17-2009, 11:11 AM
When NEBS sanctions a no garnish BBQ contest I will be the first to sign up:biggrin:

I guess you missed the BBQ Bailout at the beginning of the season. That was a NEBS sanctioned no garnish contest... too cold for ya? :twisted:

Skip
09-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Is the horse dead yet?


Where you been? :lol: Its dead and rotting. :eek: We just enjoy beating it anyway. :oops::oops::oops:

Sledneck
09-17-2009, 11:31 AM
I guess you missed the BBQ Bailout at the beginning of the season. That was a NEBS sanctioned no garnish contest... too cold for ya? :twisted:
During snowmobile season BBQ doesnt exist. :biggrin: Now if NEBS would like to sanction a hot dog contest on the snowmobile trails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoR-5whmUHI

Alexa RnQ
09-17-2009, 11:31 AM
sure you have the freedom to not garnish a box but who would do that?
Team 155 South, who entered completely naked (and stuffed) boxes at the West Coast BBQ Championships in Fairfield, CA and came in third place overall.

I will reiterate the call to garnish with bacon. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif

Nitrofly
09-17-2009, 11:39 AM
When NEBS sanctions a no garnish BBQ contest I will be the first to sign up:biggrin:

I dream of that day myself. :icon_blush:
Garnish is a waste of food and money. :mad:

Plowboy
09-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Retracting call for pickle garnish and placing a "second" on bacon as optional garnish.

Ron_L
09-17-2009, 12:33 PM
Retracting call for pickle garnish and placing a "second" on bacon as optional garnish.

I may even start judging again if bacon was a garnish! :rolleyes:

Skip
09-17-2009, 12:34 PM
Everything tastes better with bacon :mrgreen::biggrin::grin::lol::icon_bigsmil8-)

Plowboy
09-17-2009, 12:36 PM
I may even start judging again if bacon was a garnish! :rolleyes:

Would the baconiness of the bacon sway your scores?

ZILLA
09-17-2009, 12:43 PM
Now would be a great time to just eliminate ALL garnish from KCBS comps forever! period! Now that would be fair!

Nitrofly
09-17-2009, 12:58 PM
Now would be a great time to just eliminate ALL garnish from KCBS comps forever! period! Now that would be fair!


Where do I sign :biggrin:

JD McGee
09-17-2009, 01:25 PM
Retracting call for pickle garnish and placing a "second" on bacon as optional garnish.

"Third"...:-P

I may even start judging again if bacon was a garnish! :rolleyes:

I would definitely start judging then...:-P

I'm diggin' the new avatar bro! :lol:

Sledneck
09-17-2009, 01:41 PM
A bacon weave would look awesome on the bottom of a turn in box

Jacked UP BBQ
09-17-2009, 01:56 PM
I never understood this. What parsley BS? Who cares if teams use parsley or not? Let me re-state that... why do you care if a team uses a bed of parsley to present contest meat?

KCBS can change the presentation rules anyway they want as far as I am concerned - in the "off-season". The issue is if they are going to make a change a couple days before contests there better be a DAMN good reason.


Why does she care??? She seems to be bothered by everything, everywhere....:roll:

musicmanryann
09-17-2009, 02:42 PM
mmmmm....bacon........*mouth waters*

Bastey Boy
09-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Sully,

Is ther Dam Dip in our future?

HawgHeaven
09-17-2009, 03:12 PM
Boxes need to be either bare nekkid or equipped with a bacon mattress... Sledneck, awesome weave!

Garnish scares the farkin crap outta me... I had my wages garnished once... I couldn't even afford parsley! :shock:

Nitrofly
09-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Sully,

Is ther Dam Dip in our future?

Yes'um Yes'um Yes'um
Midnight saturday night
Unless T over rules me

No garnish I promise:icon_blush:

HONCHO GREGORY
09-17-2009, 04:46 PM
So I remember a topic awhile back, That we go to Bio-Green box,,Then some would have your green color, And the rest would have no Garnish,,,problem gone

Save our BBQ WORLD,,,Al Gore,,,,LOL :lol::lol::lol:

Jeff_in_KC
09-17-2009, 06:41 PM
Is the horse dead yet?

In case you haven't read Don Harwell's post in this forum, the horse just came back to life. Some weird stuff is going on! :mad:

lunchlady
09-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Now THAT is a kick-a$$ weave Sled!!!

JD McGee
09-17-2009, 09:24 PM
The "un-official" word on the street from the PNWBA is that we are good to go so long as we wash the parsley in Jack Daniels...:biggrin: Not a problem here...:lol::lol::lol: Swamp...you're back in business...:twisted:

Meat Burner
09-17-2009, 10:17 PM
Jeeah, let's make a big deal out of nothing!!!!! Some really anal people here, JMO. Don't worry about the small stuff....everything is small stuff like this issue.

Plowboy
09-18-2009, 12:04 AM
Jeeah, let's make a big deal out of nothing!!!!! Some really anal people here, JMO. Don't worry about the small stuff....everything is small stuff like this issue.

What may be small to you may not be to someone else.

If the allegations of board members acting on their own are true, there's a big deal, I hope we all can agree on. Sounds like someone needs to make another statement.

chopshop
09-19-2009, 08:02 PM
falling into a lit grill isnt cool. id suggest walking around it

smokincracker
09-20-2009, 07:30 PM
I was just wondering how much lettuce and parsley has hit the trash just from BBQ contests. I’m guessing all the cases of greens that are trashed by the team that never makes the box and then all the greens in the box that gets trashed could feed a small country. How many lbs in one year go to waste? Anyone have a guess?

MilitantSquatter
09-20-2009, 07:49 PM
I was just wondering how much lettuce and parsley has hit the trash just from BBQ contests. I’m guessing all the cases of greens that are trashed by the team that never makes the box and then all the greens in the box that gets trashed could feed a small country. How many lbs in one year go to waste? Anyone have a guess?


Assuming
300 contests/yr
x 25 teams per contest avg
x 2lbs / team
= 15,000 lbs.. :eek:

sounds like a lot, but think of all the food that goes in the trash or goes to satisfy some judges to win a trophy/ribbon and sometimes cash that could feed starving children as well.

300 contests/yr
x25 teams
x 50 lbs meat (assume 2 butts/2 briskets/3 racks ribs + some chicken)
=375,000 lbs of meat !!!

and don't forget those styro boxes that kill the environment.

BBQ contests should be outlawed !!! :wink:

Jeff_in_KC
09-20-2009, 07:59 PM
Contest organizers just save all the scrapped greens and call a local hog farmer to come get them. That way, they're recycled and go to feed animals we may be cooking one day.

Skip
09-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Contest organizers just save all the scrapped greens and call a local hog farmer to come get them. That way, they're recycled and go to feed animals we may be cooking one day.


Heh I don't think I have a hog farm within 300 miles of me. :lol:

smokincracker
09-20-2009, 08:24 PM
No hog farms there in Long Island area? hmmmm

Sledneck
09-20-2009, 08:49 PM
Heh I don't think I have a hog farm within 300 miles of me. :lol:Yes you do:
http://www.flyingpigsfarm.com/visitingthefarm.html

Plowboy
09-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Well, I can't say that lettuce affected me this weekend. Here's our pork scores. All entries were pretty on par.

999
999
999
999
988

Our naked turkey entry for the extra category was 6's and 7's. Obviously, judges aren't ready for naked boxes yet.

barfly
09-21-2009, 05:13 AM
Yes you do:
http://www.flyingpigsfarm.com/visitingthefarm.html

that's where I order my belly from, nice folks there..

Lake Dogs
09-21-2009, 06:37 AM
Well, I can't say that lettuce affected me this weekend. Here's our pork scores. All entries were pretty on par.

999
999
999
999
988

Our naked turkey entry for the extra category was 6's and 7's. Obviously, judges aren't ready for naked boxes yet.

Wow, nice scores! So, what did you do (lettuce wise)? We're considering
shredding some iceberg and placing that in bottom for depth. Shredding
long leaf green lettuce and placing that on top; thin layer for that darker
green background/frame.

Plowboy
09-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Wow, nice scores! So, what did you do (lettuce wise)? We're considering
shredding some iceberg and placing that in bottom for depth. Shredding
long leaf green lettuce and placing that on top; thin layer for that darker
green background/frame.


Not much. Just stacked up whole leaves so everything sat high in the box like it would with parsley. It literally took me 60 seconds to create a box.

U2CANQUE
09-21-2009, 08:45 AM
It literally took me 60 seconds to create a box. But, will ya change fulltime?....that is some hellacious scores though.....with your Pork though, I would expect no less.....

Skip
09-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Yes you do:
http://www.flyingpigsfarm.com/visitingthefarm.html

Ah only 220 miles away. I'll get right on that. lol

Skip
09-21-2009, 09:16 AM
Well, I can't say that lettuce affected me this weekend. Here's our pork scores. All entries were pretty on par.

999
999
999
999
988

Our naked turkey entry for the extra category was 6's and 7's. Obviously, judges aren't ready for naked boxes yet.


Are you wearing your pin Todd?

Plowboy
09-21-2009, 11:42 AM
Are you wearing your pin Todd?What pin?

Skip
09-21-2009, 11:43 AM
What pin?


Isn't that a 180?

stlgreg
09-21-2009, 12:30 PM
no, he is just short. he listed the top five judges.
but an awesome score nonetheless

Yakfishingfool
09-21-2009, 12:31 PM
Number six gave 446 score...sheesh! ;)

Plowboy
09-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Isn't that a 180?

No. The 5th judge was 988.

Skip
09-21-2009, 02:12 PM
No. The 5th judge was 988.

Ah i thought you listed all six scores. Thought i saw 5 full of 9's

swamprb
09-21-2009, 04:02 PM
No. The 5th judge was 988.

Judge Farked!

swamprb
09-21-2009, 04:08 PM
I honor of the KCBS Parsley Ban and those that were affected, In Solidarity-I only made 3 putting greens and one Lettuce box for the Evergreen State BBQ Championship.

And was actually quite surprised to learn not many PNW cooks were aware of the ban. I suppose they didn't get the KCBS E-mail?

The Pickled Pig
09-21-2009, 06:18 PM
Here's our pork scores.

No pics...didn't happen.:-P

CaptainLink
09-22-2009, 06:58 AM
Our naked turkey entry for the extra category was 6's and 7's. Obviously, judges aren't ready for naked boxes yet.

We somehow managed to shoehorn 6 turkey legs into a box that was bursting at the seams with no garden and got 6th in turkey. Two 9's and 4 8's on appearance. Nobody took a picture of the turkey though. I really wish we had a picture of the outside of the box.