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Pickin' Porkers
08-14-2009, 01:42 PM
Hopefully this will become a sticky and all will add something when it is warranted...I have recenty gotten two comment cards with the darnest comments from judges which I HAD to share.

Box had sauce smeared on the lid. Scored a 6 (Aren't you supposed to judge the meat appearance?)

Pork had too much salt added Scored a 7 ( I add no salt and very little in injections) I would have had no problem had the judge said..it TASTED salty.

Double D's BBQ
08-14-2009, 02:12 PM
How about I scored your chicken down (4) because it was pink. Hello,,,,,smoke ring! This chicken came in 5th in Kettering (42 teams) despite the 4 score for a smoke ring.

Lake Dogs
08-14-2009, 02:26 PM
Being a "damned judge" myself, I will NOT defend those.

Ok, the "salt" vs. "salty"... You say salt, I say sodium...

Appearance in KCBS isn't the same appearance as say MIM/MBN. MIM/MBN is the
appearance of the pork. KCBS is the presentation, so unfortunately a sauce smear
really does factor in to it... Shame, but true.

The chicken smoke ring.... THAT judge is a genuine IDIOT!

QN
08-14-2009, 02:31 PM
Being a "damned judge" myself, I will NOT defend those.

Ok, the "salt" vs. "salty"... You say salt, I say sodium...

Appearance in KCBS isn't the same appearance as say MIM/MBN. MIM/MBN is the
appearance of the pork. KCBS is the presentation, so unfortunately a sauce smear
really does factor in to it... Shame, but true.

The chicken smoke ring.... THAT judge is a genuine IDIOT!

NO, you are WRONG! KCBS is most definitely the Appearance of the MEAT. If you are judging a KCBS entry down because of anything other than the appearance of the meat you should not be judging. The scorecard clearly says Appearance NOT presentation. Appearance scores are to be given for the appearance of the meat. It is even common for table captains to remind judges when they show a box for appearance scoring that they are "judging the appearance of the meat".

Skip
08-14-2009, 02:34 PM
How did it smell?

SmokeInDaEye
08-14-2009, 02:40 PM
How did it smell?

Like a dog's butt...with too much salt.

Divemaster
08-14-2009, 03:13 PM
Being a "damned judge" myself, I will NOT defend those.

Ok, the "salt" vs. "salty"... You say salt, I say sodium...

Appearance in KCBS isn't the same appearance as say MIM/MBN. MIM/MBN is the
appearance of the pork. KCBS is the presentation, so unfortunately a sauce smear
really does factor in to it... Shame, but true.

The chicken smoke ring.... THAT judge is a genuine IDIOT!

NO, you are WRONG! KCBS is most definitely the Appearance of the MEAT. If you are judging a KCBS entry down because of anything other than the appearance of the meat you should not be judging. The scorecard clearly says Appearance NOT presentation. Appearance scores are to be given for the appearance of the meat. It is even common for table captains to remind judges when they show a box for appearance scoring that they are "judging the appearance of the meat".

Guys, take a deap breath....

Actually, QN is correct. From what I understand from the Reps I've talked with, the Judges are to be instructed not to include the lids in thier judging... Why? Because it may have happened AFTER the box was turned in.

KC_Bobby
08-14-2009, 03:41 PM
A judge is not to take the a sauced lid into consideration. However if the lid made a mark on the meat, I believe by the rules the meat itself is fair game for scoring as you see it.

I can ask at tomorrows judges meeting if anyone would like me to...

Ford
08-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Being a "damned judge" myself, I will NOT defend those.

Ok, the "salt" vs. "salty"... You say salt, I say sodium...

Appearance in KCBS isn't the same appearance as say MIM/MBN. MIM/MBN is the
appearance of the pork. KCBS is the presentation, so unfortunately a sauce smear
really does factor in to it... Shame, but true.

The chicken smoke ring.... THAT judge is a genuine IDIOT!
QN is correct that sauce smears do not count. However if there is a smear then it probably means that the meat itself is smudged and that is a score down, especially on chicken and ribs. Kind of like a finger mark and that's a score down IMHO. Only use toothpicks once sauce is on the chicken in the cooker. Not touched by human or robot hands. :biggrin:

Bentley
08-14-2009, 03:51 PM
QN is correct that sauce smears do not count. However if there is a smear then it probably means that the meat itselfand that is smudged is a score down, especially on chicken and ribs.


Why.

Who smuged it?

Because some dufus like me is Table Captian and fumbles the box...That aint right.

GratefulSmoker
08-14-2009, 04:21 PM
At our last contest we were given a comment card on chicken....it had one word on it....Bland! Nothing else written, just..Bland. We thought it was kind of humurous, it scored decent with all the other judges.

EatonHoggBBQ
08-15-2009, 07:31 AM
Why.
Who smuged it?



The lids get smudged from turn in boxes being stacked on top of each other. I've seen that happen at several contests. And like Ford said "if there is a smear then it probably means that the meat itself is smudged and that is a score down". Unfortunate results because someone was careless.

Solidkick
08-15-2009, 03:04 PM
OK guys.....let's get back on topic of the original post in the thread....if this grows, we'll consider cleaning it up and posting as a sticky.....

As for me, I'm never been given a comment card....but I should have had 6 of them on some DAL chicken.......LOL

HickoryFlats
08-15-2009, 03:21 PM
I have heard nothing but complaints about comment cards and cooks saying it should not be something that continues. I have never received one but would welcome them. I think as cooks we can sort out the meticulous and additionally profit from genuine constructive criticism. Taste is like noses other parts of the anatomy....everyone has their own. If only one judge thinks it is salty, don't worry about it.....at least you know what happened on that score. If a trend develops then it gives you some direction. I am a homebrewer and in beer judging comments are mandatory. I feel the more input you get the better off you are.

Paul

butts
08-15-2009, 10:01 PM
Great topic Roger!

Here's one from Gaffney this year for chicken:
"Very Very Good. Great taste, Juicy. Wanted More (with a smiley face)."
CBJ and the score was 998

I share this because I think that the comment cards can go both ways. The judge liked my chicken but thought that the tenderness was a little off?

Pickin' Porkers
08-16-2009, 08:17 AM
I'd prefer to continue receiving comment cards even though the ones I have gotten seem a bit off.....well...a LOT off. In our particular case it points out...to us anyway....some of the things that judges need to be reminded of to either score up or down about. Hopefully Reps do take the time to remind judges ad the Judges meetings NOT to account for sauce on the lid and DO take into account other factors that may warrant a higher score. The cards can be a learnng tool for both teams and judges. We have gotten some comment cards that were very positive too, so it does work both ways.

billm
08-16-2009, 09:23 AM
a few years ago we recived some comment cards on our brisket..one judge took the time out to fill out a positive comment exclaiming how tender it was ..another judge from the same table exclaimed how tough it was..
right then and there I summed up the value of comment cards

Capt ron
08-16-2009, 10:48 AM
I received my first card this weekend on pork. Well the judges was right they happen to get some dry pork. I wished I could have gotten a comment card good or bad on each of the categories. It's some place to start on trying to fix a lil problem. You can compare the comment card and the note that were taken during the cooking process to the leftovers you have to get an idea... So with that I welcome them... Mine was "pork dry and bland" must have gooten the stuff on the bottom...:oops:

Jacked UP BBQ
08-16-2009, 11:11 AM
I will throw two into the mix

chicken - too shiny, very uniform ----------- 5 in app. wtf thats a compliment

chicken - sauce way too spicy (blues hog with maple syrup and butter) not hot at all ---------------- 5 taste

BBQ Grail
08-16-2009, 11:12 AM
Why don't we just let the cooks judge each others entry's? Each team should have to supply one judge. Since it's quite obvious that only the cooks know what appearance and good taste are, they should be doing the judging.

Using this judging method you'd never have bad tasting meat in a turn in box.

Capt ron
08-16-2009, 11:20 AM
I think that is a good idea BBQ Grail! Got my vote...
I also think that there is a lot of "green judges" at the comps and that is whu the scores are so wack'd

BBQ Grail
08-16-2009, 11:21 AM
chicken - sauce way too spicy (blues hog with maple syrup and butter) not hot at all ---------------- 5 taste

This comment proves my point that even cooks don't understand everything they think they understand.

Too spicy = too much spice. Spicy doesn't have to mean too hot. There are many people who find Blues Hog to spicy, as in, to much spice flavor.

Synonyms for SPICY: piquant, savory, zesty (oh and last "hot")

But then again, I'm just a judge and backyard cook, so I can't possibly know anything about BBQ.

Ron_L
08-16-2009, 11:22 AM
Why don't we just let the cooks judge each others entry's?

Actually, before I cooked regularly I judged a few competitions and sat at the same table with experienced cooks a few times and they were the most critical judges at the table!

BBQ Grail
08-16-2009, 11:25 AM
Actually, before I cooked regularly I judged a few competitions and sat at the same table with experienced cooks a few times and they were the most critical judges at the table!

That is my experience too! Some of those "cooks" are harsh, brutal. While those who are less experience have been more likely to be lenient.

RobKC
08-16-2009, 11:47 AM
We've only had 1 comment card this year, Platte City. "These ribs were burnt". Yep, they sure were.

I'd love to get comments from each judge on each entry, not for just the bad scores.

Capt ron
08-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Cooks that do judging will be more prone to be harsh. Where the newbie judges that less experience would follow the rules they are taught at judging school a lil more closer until they get more judging under their belts and relax a bit. A fine line between overcooked and done just right...:icon_bigsmil

Dan - 3eyzbbq
08-16-2009, 03:42 PM
Cooks judging cooks is not a good thing to see. Brett Brown tried that in his Deer Hunter competition a couple years ago. Nasty, nasty low scores. I think the flaw on that one is that you were judging against your competition. Still was fun though.

Even from a cook I got a comment card of "needs more parsley".......

butt head
08-16-2009, 07:24 PM
But then again, I'm just a judge and backyard cook, so I can't possibly know anything about BBQ.
__________________
:icon_shy

crd26a
08-16-2009, 10:26 PM
"These ribs were burnt". .


That was an understatement

yelonutz
08-16-2009, 11:22 PM
I add savory to my beans in every cook. Good stuff.

NUTZ

biggs98
08-16-2009, 11:39 PM
After this weekend at Hudson Valley, I welcome all comments. I think each judge should have to give a comment on everything. I like to hear what everyone thinks when I cook at home, good or bad.......why not at comps? Just my 2cents.

yelonutz
08-16-2009, 11:59 PM
Joe, I just got back from a weekend of three contests as a table judge. It is amazing how many people have a problem sampling and scoring 6 samples in 1/2 hr. If they were to comment on each sample, we would be looking at 1 to 1 1/2 hrs between turn-ins. I'm not sure if it would be worth it.

NUTZ

biggs98
08-17-2009, 03:07 PM
Joe, I just got back from a weekend of three contests as a table judge. It is amazing how many people have a problem sampling and scoring 6 samples in 1/2 hr. If they were to comment on each sample, we would be looking at 1 to 1 1/2 hrs between turn-ins. I'm not sure if it would be worth it.

NUTZ
I can totally hear that and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but it would be nice to hear feedback from "proffessional judges". I know it is what it is but teams spend a lot of money for these comps and granted we all love cooking but feedback would help. Maybe someone could come up with a different judging system. Once again just my 2cents.

Pickin' Porkers
08-23-2009, 08:06 PM
After reading all comments....should the comment cards continue to be provided or stop?

buttrubbersbbq
08-23-2009, 09:54 PM
Paul, or hickory flats, i agree but the comments are usually only from one judge and are insulting not informative, got one that said tasteless. tastless, no sauce equals no flavor i guess, even cardboard has a taste

buttrubbersbbq
08-23-2009, 09:57 PM
a few years ago we recived some comment cards on our brisket..one judge took the time out to fill out a positive comment exclaiming how tender it was ..another judge from the same table exclaimed how tough it was..
right then and there I summed up the value of comment cards

Also sums up some of the "quality" judging that gets done

Brauma
08-23-2009, 10:07 PM
Even from a cook I got a comment card of "needs more parsley".......

Parsley is a natural breath freshener, you know. :roll:

Sledneck
08-30-2009, 11:23 PM
Got one this past weekend on pork :

"Pork had tiny bubbles on right side, did not look appealing"

Score 589

TINY BUBBLES??????

Kirk
08-30-2009, 11:54 PM
TINY BUBBLES??????
Obviously they're looking for bigger bubbles. Tiny ones just don't do well at comps. Try some xanathan gum in your sauce next time (whatever the heck that is). :wink:

Sledneck
08-31-2009, 12:13 AM
The other one I received this weekend was for sausage category

"Cant see the meat":confused::shock:
Score 688

U2CANQUE
08-31-2009, 11:42 AM
"Cant see the meat"
Phew, that one almost tops the bubbles......but, it was entertaining to read some of the cards from the weekend.....I was more concerned when a table captain said his table was more interested in him getting in line for dessert than scoring the brisket appropriately.....

trohrs123
08-31-2009, 11:45 AM
had a comment card that said... "tasted like lighter fluid...try using a chimney starter next time" we dont even bring lighter fluid to comps and thanks for tips on chimney starter... never heard of that before:rolleyes:....DUHHHH

smoke it if ya got it
08-31-2009, 11:48 AM
Yes I've received similar strange cards in competition makes you wonder are they eating it or looking at it!

musicmanryann
08-31-2009, 11:51 AM
I got one this weekend, that read "tasted good, but was way overcooked". They were referring to my brisket. This seemed reasonable enough to me, except for the fact that I received all 8's and 9's on tenderness. Upon closer examination of the comment card, the scores the judge wrote down on it did not correspond with any scores on my score sheet. I took it to the reps and found the card was given to the wrong team, even though the judge wrote down our team number. Oops! Not a big deal, but it was confusing there for a coupla minutes.

Big Ugly's BBQ
08-31-2009, 11:57 AM
We got one this weekend for our whole hog entry. "Bacon meat was not cooked to required internal temp." No mention of shoulder, hams, loin or ribs. I guess they were cooked to temp.

Scottie
08-31-2009, 11:57 AM
The other one I received this weekend was for sausage category

"Cant see the meat":confused::shock:
Score 688


well.... they do look like turds... Maybe that is what they were talking about? :roll:

SmokeInDaEye
08-31-2009, 11:59 AM
had a comment card that said... "tasted like lighter fluid...try using a chimney starter next time" we dont even bring lighter fluid to comps and thanks for tips on chimney starter... never heard of that before:rolleyes:....DUHHHH

I believe Swamp Pit had one that said the same thing.

WannaBeBBQueen
08-31-2009, 12:06 PM
had a comment card that said... "tasted like lighter fluid...try using a chimney starter next time" we don't even bring lighter fluid to comps and thanks for tips on chimney starter... never heard of that before:rolleyes:....DUHHHH

Hey we received that same comment this weekend, when I asked around some of the judges said that it can be perceived as lighter fluid, but is actually an acidic flavor that could be brought on by something we are not aware of like charcoal, different additives, vinegar...and I'm sure a slew of others.:eusa_clapugh always something.:sad:

stlgreg
08-31-2009, 12:10 PM
lighter fluid is a big thing at the judges table. I have been at numerous table where the judges like to talk about an entry (from that contest or another) that tasted like lighter fluid. Out of the 10 I judged this year the conversation came up probably 4 times.

I always end up ending the conversation when i start bringing up reasons for it being there and it not being lighter fluid, oversmoked, etc.

musicmanryann
08-31-2009, 12:11 PM
well.... they do look like turds... Maybe that is what they were talking about? :roll:

LMAO!!!:lol: I'm sure they tasted good though...:wink:

Sledneck
08-31-2009, 01:28 PM
well.... they do look like turds... Maybe that is what they were talking about? :roll:Thanks scottie,I make them that way to deter anybody from reaching in my cooker and stealing them :tongue:

trohrs123
08-31-2009, 02:37 PM
I got one this weekend, that read "tasted good, but was way overcooked". They were referring to my brisket. This seemed reasonable enough to me, except for the fact that I received all 8's and 9's on tenderness. Upon closer examination of the comment card, the scores the judge wrote down on it did not correspond with any scores on my score sheet. I took it to the reps and found the card was given to the wrong team, even though the judge wrote down our team number. Oops! Not a big deal, but it was confusing there for a coupla minutes.


We had the same at New Holland this weekend..had score of 866 on comment card and went to find it on our sheet...guess what ...not on out scoring detail...prettty scary:eek:

Stoke&Smoke
08-31-2009, 02:49 PM
Not sure on the lighter fluid thing! We got two cards saying the same thing about our ribs at our first comp this year! But we cooked with the same rubs, sauce, and method in our next 2 comps, and took 5th and 3rd in ribs. Go figure!:icon_frow

BTW, we use nothing but MAAP gas or propane to light our coals, usually just put the chimney on the turkey fryer

Scottie
08-31-2009, 03:02 PM
Thanks scottie,I make them that way to deter anybody from reaching in my cooker and stealing them :tongue:


Maybe even keep a roll of toilet paper on top of the smoker too? Or at least a roll of toilet paper next to the turn in box when you are getting it ready for turn-in? :icon_shy



:-D