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thirdeye
08-08-2009, 08:21 AM
After 6 or 8 years of having schedule problems, or no contests nearby when I was on days off, I have finally signed up for a judging class next week prior to the Wyoming State BBQ contest in Worland, WY. It sounds like a fun weekend.

Any advice or tips from some of you veterans is welcomed

BBQ Grail
08-08-2009, 09:03 AM
Stay our of the BBQ Brethren Comp sections and never, ever voice your opinion publicly about what what YOU think is good BBQ.

Other than that go, have fun and do your best.

Skip
08-08-2009, 09:35 AM
Remember that its not life or death. Watch where you fall in the "bell curve" when the scores are announced during class. If you find yourself always 2 points lower then the low average you might be too critical. :)

Dale P
08-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Get there early and meet all the people you can. Have fun.

ModelMaker
08-08-2009, 10:57 AM
First off, don't be discouraged by the dick sitting next to you. He's at every class sometimes he's a cook from an almost star BBQ team, sometimes he knows someone who knows everything about BBQ, sometimes he is an expert at the 'ol gas grill.
Mostly listen to the intent of what KCBS is wanting from you. These are the rules, read them more than just the one time. Here is how we want you to do this, so that all teams are starting out on even playing feilds.
Your taste and preference does matter, but it shall be apllied in a fair and even manor.
I think the only way to understand everyone's thoughts and intentions is to stand in their shoes for a while.
In the end, you'll get from the class exactly what you put into the class.
Have fun, learn some, and grow each time you judge. I've come to the conclusion after 4 years, you'lll never know it all.
ModelMaker

Bbq Bubba
08-08-2009, 11:32 AM
Stay our of the BBQ Brethren Comp sections and never, ever voice your opinion publicly about what what YOU think is good BBQ.

Other than that go, have fun and do your best.

:shock: :lol: :cool:

Lippy
08-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Go in with an open mind. The class that I went to one guy cook for everyone. Some of the food was good but most bad. Listen to instructor and read the book. I learned the most doing my first judging. Got there a little early and just went around asking the other judges questions. SaucyWench was my table captain, she was very helpful.

Dale P
08-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Star BBQ team. I like the sound of that.8)
Perry Brothers & Sons starring Dale Perry! Coming to a comp near you.

Judging was fun. It was worth the trip and a hell of a lot easier then cooking. The whole time while we were Judging, I was wishing that we were competing instead. But I got it bad..

barbefunkoramaque
08-08-2009, 01:38 PM
Forget everything you know is True about BBQ. LOL

I love the comment about "the Dick Next to you"

That was priceless. So farking true I can't even believe it. Perfect.

Dale P
08-08-2009, 02:35 PM
What a load of crap. I am friendly to just about everyone I meet at comps but my kindness can only go so far when im pushed. Do you get off making people mad?

Bentley
08-08-2009, 04:48 PM
The class that I went to one guy cook for everyone. Some of the food was good but most bad.

If you werent from KY, I would have sworn you must have been at one of the two CBJ classes I cooked for in Burbank!

barbefunkoramaque
08-08-2009, 05:10 PM
What a load of crap. I am friendly to just about everyone I meet at comps but my kindness can only go so far when im pushed. Do you get off making people mad?

Jesus Dale scroll up.... theres a guy that advises to "ignore the Dick sitting next to you" LOL

SCROLL UP.

barbefunkoramaque
08-08-2009, 05:11 PM
First off, don't be discouraged by the dick sitting next to you. He's at every class sometimes he's a cook from an almost star BBQ team, sometimes he knows someone who knows everything about BBQ,
ModelMaker

This line Dale...

LOL

BBQ Grail
08-08-2009, 08:32 PM
Stay our of the BBQ Brethren Comp sections and never, ever voice your opinion publicly about what what YOU think is good BBQ.

Other than that go, have fun and do your best.

:shock: :lol: :cool:


I was going to say: "Remember there are no bad cooks, only bad judges." But I figured I'd just keep that to myself. :twisted:

WineMaster
08-09-2009, 09:11 AM
Dont eat breakfast

EatonHoggBBQ
08-09-2009, 10:15 AM
Go, have fun and be prepared to meet a lot of interesting people. :eek:

Jeff_in_KC
08-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Leave the cooler AT HOME.

Taste enough of the BBQ that is presented to you to actually know what it's like.

Discuss with other judges after each category judging is over to see where you were.

Crackers and water are there for a reason: to get the taste of the previous sample out of your mouth so you can fairly taste the next.

Don't judge it on what you like or dislike. For instance, if you hate spicy BBQ but someone turns in spicy food, don't score it down. You ask yourself if that is a good representation of spicy BBQ and score it as such.

willkat98
08-09-2009, 03:01 PM
Any advice or tips from some of you veterans is welcomed

Go with a Brethren member.

When the guy at your table says "I make an awesome barbecued grilled ice cream",

turn to your Brethren buddy, laugh amongst yourselves, and enjoy it.

Parrothead and I laughed about that for years.

Too funny.

And the guy is probably a Master Judge now

Chenernator
08-09-2009, 08:05 PM
Leave the cooler AT HOME.

Crackers and water are there for a reason: to get the taste of the previous sample out of your mouth so you can fairly taste the next.

Why leave the cooler at home? My KCBS CBJ instructor suggested we bring it.

Also, be careful about eating too many crackers, they'll fill you up. If you snag a little parsley out of a box, you can chew that, instead.

Rhapsody
08-09-2009, 10:02 PM
We usually bring the cooler but don't use it. Sometimes they will let you have stuff off the excess table, but if not , you are bringing home chicken, brisket and ribs with a bite or two taken out of them , all in the same box.

Jeff_in_KC
08-09-2009, 10:46 PM
Why leave the cooler at home? My KCBS CBJ instructor suggested we bring it.

There's another reason we need change in KCBS. :roll: Because too many judges are more interested in what they can stuff in a cooler to take home for free rather than judging entries fairly.

Also, be careful about eating too many crackers, they'll fill you up. If you snag a little parsley out of a box, you can chew that, instead.

Parsley doesn't destroy flavors - it adds one itself. So the next guy's entry will taste like parsley. One bite of cracker and a small drink of water between samples isn't going to fill you up.

Jeff_in_KC
08-09-2009, 10:47 PM
We usually bring the cooler but don't use it. Sometimes they will let you have stuff off the excess table, but if not , you are bringing home chicken, brisket and ribs with a bite or two taken out of them , all in the same box.

Sanitary AND bacteria free, huh?:roll:

smoke-n-my-i's
08-10-2009, 10:53 AM
There's another reason we need change in KCBS. :roll: Because too many judges are more interested in what they can stuff in a cooler to take home for free rather than judging entries fairly.


At a reason comp, we saw several judges carrying in their coolers... our opinion is, "all they are here for is the free food"....

Go with an open mind, judge each piece as it's own, and don't compare any to another.... My bbq is different than the one next to the one's on your table.... so please, if you judge mine, do it for what I turn in, not the ones next to it....

And have fun......

If you are ever at a comp with me, come by after the judging, and I will give you bbq to take home... don't take that have eaten, left sitting out for hours stuff.....

Bill

swamprb
08-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Why leave the cooler at home? My KCBS CBJ instructor suggested we bring it.

Also, be careful about eating too many crackers, they'll fill you up. If you snag a little parsley out of a box, you can chew that, instead.

I don't rinse my parsley and sometimes buy Organic.

Stoke&Smoke
08-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Go in with an open mind. The class that I went to one guy cook for everyone. Some of the food was good but most bad. Listen to instructor and read the book. I learned the most doing my first judging. Got there a little early and just went around asking the other judges questions. SaucyWench was my table captain, she was very helpful.

The class isn't so much about how the food served there tastes, in my limited experience, it's more to show you what is and isn't allowed/legal. Some boxes are deliberately made with some flaws to see if the new judges catch them. (not sure how KCBS feels about specifics, so I'll leave them out) Also, in the two I've attended, folks are asked to say why they though something was good, or not. Actually heard one lady say, after repeatedly saying she didn't like this or that "I guess I just don't like smoked food" :eek:

Mike and Theresa Lake taught that class, and the look on Mike's face when she said that was priceless:biggrin::biggrin:

As to the coolers, we judged one year before we decided to cook, and I will confess to being guilty of bringing a cooler, but NOT because I came just for the free eats. I just thought it was a shame to throw away good food! (although I threw away lots of not-so-good food as well, everything you get as a judge is not nescessarily good eats) I learned fairly quickly that. Aside from that, as already pointed out, it's not very sanitary, and some contests forbid it, due to insurance restrictions.

We judged last year once in October, after having competed that summer several times, and I left the cooler at home, only because I guess I got the cooks opinion, having looked at it from the other side. Now I can understand why folks feel they shouldn't be brought.

Enjoy the class, and try to understand the effort that goes into competing before you torpedo anyone!:confused: Very little you get will be inedible

thirdeye
08-10-2009, 02:22 PM
Some very good points of view so far. Thanks for being so candid.

I did read the sticky on judging above, and have read as much of the KCBS online instructions and rules that I have found.

ModelMaker
08-10-2009, 02:32 PM
There's another reason we need change in KCBS. :roll: Because too many judges are more interested in what they can stuff in a cooler to take home for free rather than judging entries fairly.



Parsley doesn't destroy flavors - it adds one itself. So the next guy's entry will taste like parsley. One bite of cracker and a small drink of water between samples isn't going to fill you up.


Pretty wide brush your painting with there Skippy.....
ModelMaker

Slamdunkpro
08-10-2009, 02:36 PM
At a reason comp, we saw several judges carrying in their coolers... our opinion is, "all they are here for is the free food"....

My favorite "Cooler-King" story. I was table captaining and a cooler-queen judge turned in a score sheet for ribs with one entry marked 2-3-3. The rest of the table had marked that entry with 7's and 8's. I pulled her aside and asked her about it and she told me that "the rib was burned, fatty and just tasted nasty". OK, I looked over on her place mat and asked where the offending rib was. She said "I put it in my cooler to take home, do you want to see it?" I said "No, but tell me, if it was that bad why do you want to take it home?" She said "I don't want to waste a perfectly good rib":shock:

QDoc
08-10-2009, 06:54 PM
I wish cooks would get off the idea that judges are there for free food. Many judges drive for hours to judge so free food is not is not a major factor. I for one became a judge to learn how others presented and flavored their food and to understand better what proper tenderness and texture means. People take prepared food for their lunch everyday so I dont think sanity is a big issue if the food has been properly prepared. People take home food from restaurants daily. No problem. Judges have to learn and they in turn may want to have some family members sample championship BBQ so they will be more critical when a judge prepares BBQ themself. It is a learning process for everyone. I have taken home left overs and really studied it and spent time in the evaluation process. Time I didn't have during the actual judging process. I think in doing so I have become a better judge and cook.

MilitantSquatter
08-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Judges have to learn and they in turn may want to have some family members sample championship BBQ so they will be more critical when a judge prepares BBQ themself. It is a learning process for everyone. I have taken home left overs and really studied it and spent time in the evaluation process. Time I didn't have during the actual judging process. I think in doing so I have become a better judge and cook.

Not trying to stir debate but I don't agree with bringing home the meat to study it after the fact.. Re-heating puts a new spin on the original submission in both a change to taste and texture..

From my experiences judging or table captaining, there is always sufficient time to evaluate.. just because others at the table may rush, you are entitled to evaluate fairly. I've seen judges take their time even while the others sit around waiting for the next category to get going.

Jeff_in_KC
08-10-2009, 08:36 PM
Pretty wide brush your painting with there Skippy.....
ModelMaker

How so? I said too many are concerned with taking BBQ home rather than judging. ONE is too many. Would you not agree? ONE can screw up someone's chances.

butts
08-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Does it look good?

Does it taste good?

Is it tender?

I think you'll be a great judge!

Slamdunkpro
08-10-2009, 10:38 PM
I wish cooks would get off the idea that judges are there for free food.

First I'm not a competitive cook, I judge and do admin wienie stuff at comps and I contract cook for people.

It's not judges taking food home that gives the cooks I talk to heartburn. It's the judges that won't take a proper bite at the judge's table so they have more to take home that give cooks heartburn. I've seen judges literally peel a sliver of meat off a rib to judge, or put a pulled pork morsel that will fit in a thimble in their mouth for judging even though they took a huge sample out of the turn in box.

So, new judge advice? TAKE A BITE, don't nibble.

Chenernator
08-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Well. That stirred up a hornet's nest.

There's another reason we need change in KCBS. :roll: Because too many judges are more interested in what they can stuff in a cooler to take home for free rather than judging entries fairly.

Parsley doesn't destroy flavors - it adds one itself. So the next guy's entry will taste like parsley. One bite of cracker and a small drink of water between samples isn't going to fill you up.

Take it up with the KCBS Board; it was a Board member that made the cooler suggestion.

Re: Parsley. My experience is that it doesn't add a flavor, but that could be because I drank water afterwards.

I don't rinse my parsley and sometimes buy Organic.

Now that's a good reason to avoid parsley. BUT, by the same reasoning, couldn't that contaminate the meat, as well?


I wish cooks would get off the idea that judges are there for free food. Many judges drive for hours to judge so free food is not is not a major factor. I for one became a judge to learn how others presented and flavored their food and to understand better what proper tenderness and texture means. People take prepared food for their lunch everyday so I dont think sanity is a big issue if the food has been properly prepared. People take home food from restaurants daily. No problem. Judges have to learn and they in turn may want to have some family members sample championship BBQ so they will be more critical when a judge prepares BBQ themself. It is a learning process for everyone.

Well said, though Militant Squatter is correct that reheating doesn't do much for the texture. Sanitation is not really an issue unless you're sharing your ABC (already been chewed) BBQ with someone else. As far as everything jumbled together, plastic baggies, anyone?

Finally, doesn't it strike anyone as near sacrilege to throw away good Q? I'm going to take two or three good bites of each sample, but some teams turn in some rather large pieces. If it's good, I'll keep it. If not, I'll toss it.

Rookie'48
08-11-2009, 12:13 AM
At one comp that I judged the KCBS Rep very pointedly stated that it was OK to take your left overs home, but damn it, take enough of a taste to fairly evaluate the meat. He was pretty emphatic on not just having a nibble & tossing the rest in the cooler.
Other than that, try your best to judge how the cook presented the entry, not as you like it. Sweet, spicy, mustard sauce, etc. - it's not about what your personal preferences are. It's "Did the cook turn in a good example of the style that he / she attempted?"
On your first few comps as a judge you might want to ask your table captain to keep an eye on your scores & let you know later if you were "in the ball park" with the other scores. Other than that - judge fairly & honestly, meet new folks and have fun.

Jeff_in_KC
08-11-2009, 09:10 AM
Take it up with the KCBS Board; it was a Board member that made the cooler suggestion.

It is not a board issue currently. The board leaves it to the organizers to allow or disallow. However, I don't feel that ANY instructor, regardless of whether they are a board member or not should be encouraging judges to haul in coolers knowing the issues it causes with SOME judges (note the narrower brush stroke :wink: ). Just my opinion.

Sanitation is not really an issue unless you're sharing your ABC (already been chewed) BBQ with someone else. As far as everything jumbled together, plastic baggies, anyone?

I suppose just you chewing on a rib prevents bacteria from starting to grow on a room temperature rib that's been sitting out for hours? I suppose it's like everything else... we should have a right to put crap into our own bodies that'll potentially make us sick if we want to.

Finally, doesn't it strike anyone as near sacrilege to throw away good Q? I'm going to take two or three good bites of each sample, but some teams turn in some rather large pieces. If it's good, I'll keep it. If not, I'll toss it.

Half eaten meat samples that have been sitting out for 2-3 hours are not good Q. If you think it is, you must not have ever eaten good Q. If you feel like you must take food home, come by my site after judging and I'll hook you up. All I ask is that you fairly and objectively judge ALL entries by consuming enough of the product to make a good determination. The little slivers and nibbles SOME (narrow brush stroke) judges try to pull does NOT do justice to the efforts teams put in to provide that meat to you for JUDGING. That's all I'm saying with this cooler thing and coolers only encourage "carry out BBQ".

JD McGee
08-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Does it look good?

Does it taste good?

Is it tender?

I think you'll be a great judge!

I'm not a judge...don't ever plan on being one either...but ^^^sounds like the best advice so far to me! :cool:

Brauma
08-11-2009, 09:43 AM
My favorite "Cooler-King" story. I was table captaining and a cooler-queen judge turned in a score sheet for ribs with one entry marked 2-3-3. The rest of the table had marked that entry with 7's and 8's. I pulled her aside and asked her about it and she told me that "the rib was burned, fatty and just tasted nasty". OK, I looked over on her place mat and asked where the offending rib was. She said "I put it in my cooler to take home, do you want to see it?" I said "No, but tell me, if it was that bad why do you want to take it home?" She said "I don't want to waste a perfectly good rib":shock:

Ok, this bothers me. I'm concerned about this in particular as someone who is fairly new to competing.

If this happens, does her score stay? Or does the table captain ask her to rethink her score? I know that the lowest score gets thrown out but what if you have two people like this at table? The thought of someone being that far off from the rest of the table and have the score stick makes me want to hang it up.

I dont compete for the money (yet) but it isnt cheap to compete. I always hope to walk to at least recoup part of my cost. Mostly I compete because I love it. But I cant afford to compete more than twice a year. If we continue to improve we have a shot a getting sponsors and we can do more comps.

I intended to take a judging class earlier this summer but couldnt make that wknd. I will get certified asap.

Slamdunkpro
08-11-2009, 12:45 PM
Ok, this bothers me. I'm concerned about this in particular as someone who is fairly new to competing.

If this happens, does her score stay? Yes, scores cannot be changed.

The_Kapn
08-11-2009, 04:41 PM
I had a long career as an "evaluator" and teaching others to do that.

My best advice is to be as "objective" as you can humanly be and go from there.

Small advice, but it works.

TIM

Sawdustguy
08-11-2009, 10:13 PM
Any advice or tips from some of you veterans is welcomed

Don't cheat off the guy sitting next to you.:tongue:

Chenernator
08-11-2009, 11:14 PM
I suppose just you chewing on a rib prevents bacteria from starting to grow on a room temperature rib that's been sitting out for hours? I suppose it's like everything else... we should have a right to put crap into our own bodies that'll potentially make us sick if we want to.

Half eaten meat samples that have been sitting out for 2-3 hours are not good Q. If you think it is, you must not have ever eaten good Q. If you feel like you must take food home, come by my site after judging and I'll hook you up. All I ask is that you fairly and objectively judge ALL entries by consuming enough of the product to make a good determination. The little slivers and nibbles SOME (narrow brush stroke) judges try to pull does NOT do justice to the efforts teams put in to provide that meat to you for JUDGING. That's all I'm saying with this cooler thing and coolers only encourage "carry out BBQ".

Okay, you've made your cooler point. We get it. Leave the nibbles comments (narrow stroke or not) out of it, as I'm taking big bites, and making a fair assessment of your box.

I'm not sure where you're coming from on bacteria and "sitting for 2-3 hours." You've never taken a doggy bag home from a restaurant? If the Q is good when I judge it, when it's fresh, I'll bag it, in a cooler, on ice, preventing bacteria growth. Sure, it won't be as good at home as when I judge it, but surely you've had leftover BBQ at some point. It still beats that fake stuff at Famous Dave's or some other chain, hands down.

Jeff_in_KC
08-12-2009, 08:18 AM
At one comp that I judged the KCBS Rep very pointedly stated that it was OK to take your left overs home, but damn it, take enough of a taste to fairly evaluate the meat. He was pretty emphatic on not just having a nibble & tossing the rest in the cooler.
Other than that, try your best to judge how the cook presented the entry, not as you like it. Sweet, spicy, mustard sauce, etc. - it's not about what your personal preferences are. It's "Did the cook turn in a good example of the style that he / she attempted?"
On your first few comps as a judge you might want to ask your table captain to keep an eye on your scores & let you know later if you were "in the ball park" with the other scores. Other than that - judge fairly & honestly, meet new folks and have fun.

Dave, I hope you judge our contest in Pleasant Hill every year! And bring about 60 more CBJs with your same beliefs! Thank you for what you do!

thirdeye
08-17-2009, 11:10 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Contests/DSC08704xx.jpg

I'm back, and had a great time. No dicks at my table LOL, only a few people even had coolers for leftovers, we were actually threatened with being replaced if the bites were not adequate, and overall the entries were well above average. Two standouts at my table were a boneless thigh with the one of the best bite through skin I have ever had, and a wonderful belly rib with a sauce that had a honey back flavor.

Bossman Bar-B-Que was in the house and I got to see him get a call in brisket.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Contests/Collage1copy.jpg

CMALANGA
08-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Have fun. Pay Attention. Listen to the advice of the KCBS rep only. Make your own opinion of what your eating, don't take the guy's next to you. Remember that each entry is not compared to the other entry, it's only compared to your opinion. Good luck.

Bentley
08-17-2009, 03:08 PM
There's another reason we need change in KCBS. :roll: Because too many judges are more interested in what they can stuff in a cooler to take home for free rather than judging entries fairly.



It is very rare I take more then one bite of BBQ when I judge, so, I dont think judges are skimping on how much they sample so they can take it home.

I just do not agree with this statement, at least I do not see any signs of it when I judge or in the case of this weekend at Fairfield, Table Captian. Maybe it is just not an issue here on the West Coast!

KC_Bobby
08-17-2009, 03:22 PM
I haven't decided if many of the judges are there to judge or take home food, but this past weekend when I judged I was in the minority of judges who did not bring a cooler and zip locks. In fact, I may have been the only judge who did not. Of the two tables I was at (was asked to move to another table to separate non-CBJs around) I was the only judge without a cooler at either table.

After we turned in our chicken score sheets I took my sample tray to the trash and dumped what I had not eaten and people looked at me like I was from a foreign land. One person commented to me that I was wasting food and asked why I was not taking it home. I politely said that I came to judge, plus taking home a some food isn't worth the risk of getting sick.

I took at least 2 good bites of every entry of all 4 categories.

Exe-que-tioner
08-17-2009, 07:56 PM
Bob, where were you judging? Were you @ Excelsior Springs? That is where we were judging this weekend. I had only 3 certified judges at my table (including myself) and 3 that were not.
I try to keep quiet and low-key at the judging table as to not mention that I do compete on a team. I guess I'm looking for feedback from them after each category entry is judged, since I have tasted it as well. (I kinda feel like the poker players that wear the sunglasses). About half-way into the judging, they (referring to "they" as "non-certified-judges" that have never cooked on the circuit, maybe judged a time or two, or let alone cooked any BBQ whatsoever, except for burgers, brats & chicken on their Char-broils or George Foreman's) start asking stupid questions to the certified judges. I start answering questions they have and within a few minutes they seem to know that I have the answer to their questions. The truth comes out and I let them know I compete. Then the questions start pouring in. (which is good to educate when I can).
Back to the cooler issue, like Bob, I do not bring a cooler. Our table captain plopped down a box of zip-loc's for everyone to share. Two judges (including table captain) took very few bites from entries (from what I witnessed) like they were taking it for freinds or family....I don't know?
Bob.......they looked at me too as if I was from a foreign land when I tossed my leftovers into the trash. :roll:

SaucyWench
08-17-2009, 09:27 PM
Wow, Exq, harsh! I have never in 8 years of judging and/or table captaining/doing double duty, seen a table captain "plop a box of zip-locs" on a table for everyone to share! And on behalf of those non-certified judges, thanks so much for posting that their questions were stupid.

And BTW, we aren't supposed to be watching what the other judges are doing.

KC_Bobby
08-17-2009, 09:59 PM
I was at KCIR. We had a very high percentage of CBJs. I think only 4-5 were not CBJ's and another 3-4 first time CBJ's. The reps did a good job to spread them out.

KC_Bobby
08-17-2009, 10:02 PM
Were you @ Excelsior Springs? That is where we were judging this weekend. I had only 3 certified judges at my table (including myself) and 3 that were not.

The KCBS site claims the comp was 86% CBJ's. Seems odd that 3 nons were at one table

Bentley
08-17-2009, 11:33 PM
About half-way into the judging, they (referring to "they" as "non-certified-judges" that have never cooked on the circuit, maybe judged a time or two, or let alone cooked any BBQ whatsoever, except for burgers, brats & chicken on their Char-broils or George Foreman's) start asking stupid questions to the certified judges.


Such as...?