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View Full Version : Prestigious Invitational Qualifications - Should they be changed


MilitantSquatter
08-04-2009, 09:14 PM
Mod Note : New thread started here as offshoot topic to my post below in a different thread)

SIDE - Might have been a bit slow reading into it, and I now realize you have a dog in this fight so to speak with your Sayville win, but you appear to be against any other contest meeting established credentials..

PS - Of course Andy is flying out... he's now got an original poist WWII Levitt-style house in Levittown, a job at Grumman working with Phil, a boat docked in Freeport, season tickets to the Islanders and loves the beach


Every contest organizer is entitled to create their own qualifications for an Invitational type event..

Some of the present invitational type contests like the Jack, Royal etc. use various criteria and metrics like GC's, state residency, state proclamation, # of teams, # of years contest has been conducted etc. and rules may not not been revised as the competition scene has evolved.

So - If you were going to start a new prestigious invitational or revise an existing one as an organizer, or wanted to compete against the best as a cook - what would you keep, change, add to make the playing field truly one of the best ?

Discuss. :biggrin:

SmokeInDaEye
08-04-2009, 09:27 PM
SIDE - Might have been a bit slow reading into it, and I now realize you have a dog in this fight with your Sayville win, but you appear to be against any other contest meeting established credentials ?

It is what it is. Other contest organizers spends months or years putting together great contests, securing cooks, etc. If it's just as easy to add a chicken category three weeks before what is suppose to be a fun charity event because the governor is willing to sign off on another proclamation, so be it. If you can declare a second year contest a "first year" qualifier after the cooking is done, so be it. It just begs a review of the rules as they stand, IMO.

SmokeInDaEye
08-04-2009, 09:35 PM
No worries. Just my opinion as someone who has been screwed before by these last minute qualifiers. If you're going to take on the task of organizing contests, put the respect of the teams who support you at the top of your priority list (said to all organizers across the country).

Sledneck
08-04-2009, 09:41 PM
I would love if NY had as many contests as KS or MO so I dont see what the problem is.

SmokeInDaEye
08-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I need a better understanding of the qualifying rules perhaps but the way they are being interpreted in some cases leads me to believe you can charge nothing, have 15 people show up, make up a new name each year and, depending on your governor, have it declared a state championship. Does that mean that the winners of those contests will go on to win the Jack, GAB or Royal? Probably not, but its kind of like letting anyone who can glue letters on a velvet sash be Ms. America.

Sledneck
08-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I would make sure that whatever we do it would include a conspiracy against SIDE:rolleyes:

HoDeDo
08-04-2009, 09:50 PM
SIDE - I realize you have a dog in this fight so to speak with your Sayville win, but you appear to be against any other contest meeting established credentials..


PS - Of course Andy is flying out... he's now got an original poist WWII Levitt-style house in Levittown, a job at Grumman working with Phil, a boat docked in Freeport, season tickets to the Islanders and loves the beach.

Now thats funny... I think if I could pull off all of that, I would move:twisted:

I think anyone that works with the Jack and the Royal to ensure thier criteria are met should be able to have a qualifying event. I would imagine that there are other specifics not in those website blurbs... when you were lobbying the events for approval, those things would come out. They dont let every event count...They reserve the right to do whatever they want :razz:

But MO has well over 30 Qualifiers, so Does KS.... so I think NY can have a few more if they pass muster.

KC_Bobby
08-04-2009, 09:57 PM
Help an outsider out - is NY adding another comp to the jack draw?

SmokeInDaEye
08-04-2009, 09:57 PM
Feel free to attack me but it's kind of a joke.

I'm all for more contests, I'd just prefer they were scheduled for the season and work with the big shows to do it legit, not twist some things a couple weeks in advance (or at awards). They don't add games to the hockey season and they don't add extra holes in a golf tourney (unless it is a playoff).

FYI, I'm not going to the Jack or Royal this year because I don't believe I'm ready to do them right (ie teammates, vacation time, and money). I'm simply in this discussion because I think the rules need to be better defined.

KC_Bobby
08-04-2009, 10:01 PM
I see nothing wrong with adding comps as the season goes. At the rate they were getting canceled in Iowa this year, most IA competitors would welcome them.

MilitantSquatter
08-04-2009, 10:02 PM
KCBobby - it's only a possibility right now.. nothing concrete as far as another contest.


SIDE - Fair point - so how do you think a team(s), or organizations etc. can go about making recommendations for improvement to the established contests ? Do you think they will listen ?

CTSmokehouse
08-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Feel free to attack me but it's kind of a joke.

FYI, I'm not going to the Jack or Royal this year because I don't believe I'm ready to do them right (ie teammates, vacation time, and money). I'm simply in this discussion because I think the rules need to be better defined.

That is dissappointing...you really should reconsider... you deserve to be there...

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

motoeric
08-04-2009, 10:25 PM
If it's just as easy to add a chicken category three weeks before what is suppose to be a fun charity event because the governor is willing to sign off on another proclamation, so be it.

Well, that clearly isn't the crux of the matter as you were bitching and whining about it prior to the discussion of adding chicken.

Sayville was a state championship in it's first year and you didn't complain about that. The application for the proclamation was sent in way before there were 15 teams signed up. So where do you draw the line? Why is one legit and the next isn't?


Eric

YankeeBBQ
08-04-2009, 10:47 PM
No worries. Just my opinion as someone who has been screwed before by these last minute qualifiers. If you're going to take on the task of organizing contests, put the respect of the teams who support you at the top of your priority list (said to all organizers across the country).

I suffered through a similar situation a few years back. Team Agave qualified for the Jack but then a contest in the state we won got a proclamation from the Governor about 3 weeks after the contest took place. Man was I pissed !

Some organizers just want to take the easy road to attract teams instead of doing the real work and making it an event that teams want to attend because it's cooker friendly. Getting a proclamation seems to be the easiest way. Oh Well.

WineMaster
08-04-2009, 10:59 PM
Feel free to attack me but it's kind of a joke.

I'm all for more contests, I'd just prefer they were scheduled for the season and work with the big shows to do it legit, not twist some things a couple weeks in advance (or at awards). They don't add games to the hockey season and they don't add extra holes in a golf tourney (unless it is a playoff).

FYI, I'm not going to the Jack or Royal this year because I don't believe I'm ready to do them right (ie teammates, vacation time, and money). I'm simply in this discussion because I think the rules need to be better defined.

Are you waiting till "After" your Food Tv Pilot?????

Sorry

MilitantSquatter
08-04-2009, 11:01 PM
Question for Steve (Yankee BBQ) - you've been at this a while, won a bunch of GC's, qualified many times, past NEBS President etc, vocal and respected opinion on current KCBS issues etc...

Do you think that if KCBS membership came together in some way (ex. petition by large contingent of teams or request for topic discussion at BOD meeting etc) and sought the BOD for to make a push to the Jack or Royal committees to re-examine contest qualifications - could it happen ? If not, why ? Should it just be left alone ? If so, why ?

I'd love to hear from others on this too.. we need a good topic to kick around even if it goes in circles.

ique
08-05-2009, 07:13 AM
FYI, I'm not going to the Jack or Royal this year because I don't believe I'm ready to do them right (ie teammates, vacation time, and money). I'm simply in this discussion because I think the rules need to be better defined.

You shouldnt miss the Jack. All you need is Thurs/Fri off from work and a little extra gas money. Otherwise you can do it just like a regular comp.

Have you read all the rules? They are a bit complicated, for the Jack especially. But I think they are pretty well defined.


So - If you were going to start a new prestigious invitational or revise an existing one as an organizer, or wanted to compete against the best as a cook - what would you keep, change, add to make the playing field truly one of the best ?
Discuss. :biggrin:

I never understood why a State can have more than one State Championship. If you win, you are not the State Champion you are one of 53 in MO. And, I don't think contests that are added late in the season should be eligible as qualifiers. A qualifying contest must be announced 3 months in advance and published in the bullsheet... or something like that.

Otherwise I think the process for theRoyal and Jack is pretty good, almost all of the top teams are there AND there is diversity of teams from across the country.

WannaBeBBQueen
08-05-2009, 07:26 AM
[quote=ique;990248]I never understood why a State can have more than one State Championship. If you win, you are not the State Champion you are one of 53 in MO. And, I don't think contests that are added late in the season should be eligible as qualifiers. A qualifying contest must be announced 3 months in advance and published in the bullsheet... or something like that.
[/quote

I agree, there should be only one state champ....

Q Haven
08-05-2009, 07:43 AM
You shouldnt miss the Jack. All you need is Thurs/Fri off from work and a little extra gas money. Otherwise you can do it just like a regular comp.



I agree...if you want you can always cook the open at the Royal any year, but you never know if you will have another chance to go to the Jack if you get in. I know this, as we qualified in 2006 and have not qualified since.

Also, there is no entry fee for the Jack, so if you apply the $200 to $300 that a contest like the Jack would charge as an entry fee towards your gas it really doesn't have to cost a lot more than a normal contest.

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 08:31 AM
Do you think that if KCBS membership came together in some way (ex. petition by large contingent of teams or request for topic discussion at BOD meeting etc) and sought the BOD for to make a push to the Jack or Royal committees to re-examine contest qualifications - could it happen ? If not, why ? Should it just be left alone ? If so, why ?

I'd love to hear from others on this too.. we need a good topic to kick around even if it goes in circles.

I'm not Steve and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night but IMO, the BOD wouldn't touch this. I could be wrong but I believe this would not be their place to ask two contests to re-evaluate their qualifying criteria. As with any board or governmental body, you have to stay within the scope of your authority. Just guessing but I would think this steps outside that authority.

Plowboy
08-05-2009, 08:38 AM
I agree, there should be only one state champ....

And it could be HoDeDo. :twisted:

Alexa RnQ
08-05-2009, 08:50 AM
IMO, the BOD wouldn't touch this. I could be wrong but I believe this would not be their place to ask two contests to re-evaluate their qualifying criteria.
This was my first thought as well. If I ran an invitational contest, and somebody outside my organization tried to tell me who to invite and how to go about doing it, I'd have to tell them to pound sand.

The process for the two contests works well if the criteria are conscientiously applied and followed. Do mistakes occur? Sure they do, in any human-run organization they're bound to happen. If a team is aware that they're included in error, it's up to them whether they decline the invitation or not -- it's not as if everyone around them doesn't know the circumstances too.

"State championship" is a nomenclature issue. You all know that on any given day one team could have some amazing fluke, put it all together for once, hit all the right tables -- and never perform that way again. Is that who you want for your sole state representative? Allowing multiple qualifying contests and multiple entries into the draw opens the door for teams who perform consistently, weekend after weekend, and more typically represent the tenor of competition in their area.

Bigdog
08-05-2009, 08:52 AM
[quote=ique;990248]I never understood why a State can have more than one State Championship. If you win, you are not the State Champion you are one of 53 in MO. And, I don't think contests that are added late in the season should be eligible as qualifiers. A qualifying contest must be announced 3 months in advance and published in the bullsheet... or something like that.
[/quote

I agree, there should be only one state champ....

I also agree. Sounds to me like the system works pretty well, but the name "state champion" needs to be changed. I know, this is a simple solution so it will never work. :roll:

SmokeInDaEye
08-05-2009, 09:00 AM
I never understood why a State can have more than one State Championship. If you win, you are not the State Champion you are one of 53 in MO. And, I don't think contests that are added late in the season should be eligible as qualifiers. A qualifying contest must be announced 3 months in advance and published in the bullsheet... or something like that.

100 percent my point. "State Championships" are meaningless if there's one every month. And to have new qualifiers added last minute or sometimes after the fact seems disrepectful to all of the competitors who never had a shot because the contests weren't properly announced (if announced at all) to the masses in a timely fashion.

Plowboy
08-05-2009, 09:16 AM
If I ran an invitational contest, and somebody outside my organization tried to tell me who to invite and how to go about doing it, I'd have to tell them to pound sand.

You get me all excited when you talk like that. :twisted:

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 09:38 AM
If they REALLY wanted to do it right, the thing to do would be to have the grand champions from all contests within a state compete at a contest that KCBS actually puts on in that state with that contest being designated the "state championship". Then all winners of each state championship contest are invited to the Jack. I'd add an additional requirement that there needed to be at least ten contests per state to do a "state championship" contest (what good is a three team event? Not worth the expense.) otherwise, the Jack just does a draw for that state. And if a team won more than one contest in a state, the reserve grand team gets an invite to the state championship contest, making reserve grand worth something other than a little bigger paycheck.

And if the Jack didn't want to participate in this new system, that's cool... let them continue their way. Nothing wrong with that. But then KCBS could sponsor a National BBQ championship and have a big invitational to have all state winners come to KC for a real world series of BBQ.

early mornin' smokin'
08-05-2009, 09:39 AM
so then why arent all comps in ny state considered state championship qualifiers, then whoever the 6 gc's are, can all get together and stomp there feet and only one gets to be state champ.
Id love to do the jack, id also love to just take another walk!! my first was with the brethren, and hopefully the next will also.
The more state championships there are, the more chances we have to all get together.

ique
08-05-2009, 09:39 AM
You all know that on any given day one team could have some amazing fluke, put it all together for once, hit all the right tables -- and never perform that way again. Is that who you want for your sole state representative?

Yes.

Jacked UP BBQ
08-05-2009, 09:49 AM
"State championship" is a nomenclature issue. You all know that on any given day one team could have some amazing fluke, put it all together for once, hit all the right tables -- and never perform that way again. Is that who you want for your sole state representative? Allowing multiple qualifying contests and multiple entries into the draw opens the door for teams who perform consistently, weekend after weekend, and more typically represent the tenor of competition in their area.


A fluke??? Do not dare give them credit for having a good day. It must have been a mistake. If you win a contest that qualifies you derserve to go. A winner is a winner no matter a fluke or a shark.:roll:

Scottie
08-05-2009, 09:50 AM
Yes.


I sorta agree with that too Chris. Honestly, I don't think the Royal or the Jack need to change a thing. (That was just for Jorge.).... They are 2 of the most sought after contests out there. They are doing something right, if folks are sitting around a computer talking about their contests... Now does that mean they shouldn't "tweak" them a little? They sure should. I mean, I still don't understand why the Jack doesn't invite all of their past champs back. Especially if they have qualified for the draw with a GC... :roll:

Plowboy
08-05-2009, 09:54 AM
have all state winners come to KC for a real world series of BBQ.

Or Philly in January. :wink:

ique
08-05-2009, 10:13 AM
If they REALLY wanted to do it right, the thing to do would be to have the grand champions from all contests within a state compete at a contest that KCBS actually puts on in that state with that contest being designated the "state championship".


That would be fun.


But then KCBS could sponsor a National BBQ championship and have a big invitational to have all state winners come to KC for a real world series of BBQ.

Isnt that basically the ARI?

Jorge
08-05-2009, 10:22 AM
But then KCBS could sponsor a National BBQ championship and have a big invitational to have all state winners come to KC for a real world series of BBQ.

ique raised the same point I was thinking of when I read this.

One of the things that I think is so special about the Royal Invitational is that anybody with a GC is in. Anybody willing to make the trip can cook, and each entrant has the opportunity to cook against the best of the best willing to show up.

Making it more exclusive by narrowing it to only 1 cook per state does nothing to elevate the level of competition in my mind. It just makes it more exclusive.

Skip
08-05-2009, 10:25 AM
I mean, I still don't understand why the Jack doesn't invite all of their past champs back. Especially if they have qualified for the draw with a GC... :roll:

Thats probably nothing more then available space.

musicmanryann
08-05-2009, 10:31 AM
I mean, I still don't understand why the Jack doesn't invite all of their past champs back. Especially if they have qualified for the draw with a GC... :roll:

In golf if you win the Masters, the US Open, British Open, etc., you qualify for life--it doesn't even matter if you can swing a club anymore--you are part of an elite fraternity of individuals.

KC_Bobby
08-05-2009, 11:16 AM
psst - US Open is only 10 years for auto qualifying

now back to your scheduled programming

musicmanryann
08-05-2009, 11:20 AM
psst - US Open is only 10 years for auto qualifying

now back to your scheduled programming

Oops--You're right. My brain doesn't really turn on until the afternoon. Well the Master's anyway.

BBQchef33
08-05-2009, 03:41 PM
FYI, I'm not going to the Jack or Royal this year because I don't believe I'm ready to do them right (ie teammates, vacation time, and money). I'm simply in this discussion because I think the rules need to be better defined.

get your arse to the Jack and AR... you may only have this shot and you'll kick yourslef if u dont. Weren't you one of those who busted my balls when I considered defending my title at Sayville instead of going to the Jack. Now i know why.. u had it fixed. :wink: BTW, being to the jack, If i HAD to choose one this year, I would say the Royal, but you MUST get to the Jack if u draw.




I'm all for more contests, I'd just prefer they were scheduled for the season and work with the big shows to do it legit, not twist some things a couple weeks in advance (or at awards). They don't add games to the hockey season and they don't add extra holes in a golf tourney (unless it is a playoff).


Not really feasible. Some contests can be pulled out of a hat in 2 months if they can find a festival or event that already has an infrastructure in place. Others can take a year to plan because they are standing on their own. Would you prefer NO contest as opposed to one popping up on the calender in August because a September car show pulled out and a BBQ contest was pulled together in its place? We got Sayville 2007 done in 4 months only because we had an infrastructure in place with their festival.

Some states, us included,(but not for long,) don't have the luxury of multiple contests having time for a year of planning, and take what they can get for venues, so if someone is willing to host a contest, I say go for it! I do think KCBS does require 3 month advance notice for sanctioning, but sanctioning is not required for the Jack and AR. f an organizer can satisfy the requirments of the 2 big contests without sanctioning, more power to them.

Regarding limit the amount of StCh, I believe the more shots and wider geographic area thats covered, the more folks would compete. We have to recognize that there are ALOT of folks that would not consider traveling 300-400 miles to contest. If we want the hobby to grow, and with growth will come more contests, more exposure, more sponsors and with that comes bigger payouts, then we would want that extended demographic, but if your just lookin out for numero uno, then of course one would frown on more competition.


The process for the two contests works well if the criteria are conscientiously applied and followed. Do mistakes occur? Sure they do, in any human-run organization they're bound to happen. If a team is aware that they're included in error, it's up to them whether they decline the invitation or not -- it's not as if everyone around them doesn't know the circumstances too.

"State championship" is a nomenclature issue. You all know that on any given day one team could have some amazing fluke, put it all together for once, hit all the right tables -- and never perform that way again. Is that who you want for your sole state representative? Allowing multiple qualifying contests and multiple entries into the draw opens the door for teams who perform consistently, weekend after weekend, and more typically represent the tenor of competition in their area.

Wow.. (and please dont take this as a shot) but this seems very elitist. YEAH! I want them to represent. They deserve it.. IF they won fair and square. A sanctioned event will for the most part ensure that and being a big name heavy hitter does not entitle anyone to a free pass.

ANY team that wins a contest, regardless of history or circumstances SHOULD go, and be proud to go and represent. (unless they got in by cheating).

I dont care if a team has 50 wins, or ZERO wins and took a GC on the first time out. They did it, they made it, they worked for it that day and got the brass ring. If they beat top teams good for them!!! But I for one will never look down on a team for achiving a win or expect them to pull out because they hit their table of judges 4 times.


100 percent my point. "State Championships" are meaningless if there's one every month. And to have new qualifiers added last minute or sometimes after the fact seems disrepectful to all of the competitors who never had a shot because the contests weren't properly announced (if announced at all) to the masses in a timely fashion.

Disrespectful to teams to add qualifers?? Thats like saying its disrespectful to have top teams attending September contest because a new/starting team one the title in June. Why is it disrespectful to give more teams shots at the big one? Should an organizer NOT take on a contest opportunity for 15-20-25 teams to compete because it will have an affect on one or two teams shot at the draw? I think not. Is it watering things down, yes, but that the way things are.


I see nothing wrong with having multiple state champions. Its just a bragging right to tell your friends and family. Limiting a state to one championship will do nothing but stop folks from making it to THAT contest and thin the field of those lucky enough to be able to travel far, or live close. Again, not everyone want to travel 400 miles.

Ok, part of me would agree that there should be one champion and that determination should be from a final contest among ALL of the state champions. If thats not feasible, another alternative is that THE state champion for each state is the one (state resident)with the highest individual score of all THAT states contests. That can be the team with the official bragging rights.

All winners should still go to the royal.. and Jack(or draw). The more teams you beat at the national events, the more you have to be proud of. I'd rather win in a field of 120 Grand champions than a field of 50 out of the 120 that got picked out of a hat.

If they REALLY wanted to do it right, the thing to do would be to have the grand champions from all contests within a state compete at a contest that KCBS actually puts on in that state with that contest being designated the "state championship". Then all winners of each state championship contest are invited to the Jack. I'd add an additional requirement that there needed to be at least ten contests per state to do a "state championship" contest (what good is a three team event? Not worth the expense.) otherwise, the Jack just does a draw for that state. And if a team won more than one contest in a state, the reserve grand team gets an invite to the state championship contest, making reserve grand worth something other than a little bigger paycheck.

And if the Jack didn't want to participate in this new system, that's cool... let them continue their way. Nothing wrong with that. But then KCBS could sponsor a National BBQ championship and have a big invitational to have all state winners come to KC for a real world series of BBQ.

Jeff for KCBS BOARD!!!! Thats another good solution.

Nitrofly
08-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey guys and girls

I have been reading this all day.
I have one suggestion that I'm sure
the Jack might even like.

Have a state run off.. New York is has
eight state Championships. have a cookoff
with all eight winners cooking against each
other. The winner gets the invite to the Jack

Kanas has say 40 state Champions they compete
for the invite to the Jack.
No money winner goes to the Jack

SmokeInDaEye
08-05-2009, 04:14 PM
get your arse to the Jack and AR... you may only have this shot and you'll kick yourslef if u dont.

I am looking for a way to make it happen but work comes first in this economy so I am being realistic. If things change, all the better.

As for the rest, the flaw lies when some states can have multiple 30 plus team contests but can only get 1 or 2 certified by the state yet other states throw around proclamations like a whore on prom night.

So what's the solution? Stay away from contests in those states despite the organizers bending over backwards for 6 mos plus to get teams there in favor of a last second promise of a shot at the royal/jack? It depends on where your priorities lie, I guess.

BBQchef33
08-05-2009, 04:37 PM
I am looking for a way to make it happen but work comes first in this economy so I am being realistic. If things change, all the better.

As for the rest, the flaw lies when some states can have multiple 30 plus team contests but can only get 1 or 2 certified by the state yet other states throw around proclamations like a whore on prom night.

So what's the solution? Stay away from contests in those states despite the organizers bending over backwards for 6 mos plus to get teams there in favor of a last second promise of a shot at the royal/jack? It depends on where your priorities lie, I guess.

hey... she wasnt a whore, she was just friendly.


anyway... that a whole notha' issue... the states where the govs office is making that determination IMO, is overstepping the bounds.. they are creating local 'rules' and applying them in a way that is not uniformaly applied nationwide. dont agtree with that either. Its not their place. All states should work the same.


ps, dont understand last paragraph. u mean stay away from the contest in the staes where govs office s butting in?

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 04:47 PM
That would be fun.




Isnt that basically the ARI?

Yes, I originally thought so BUT instead of 100 contest winners in the Invitational, you only have 50... one from each state, whichever team won the "state championship". Instead of going to the Royal automatically when you win an event, you automatically get to go to a real state championship contest to determine that state's representative to the Royal. Problem being the Royal would have to agree to that format.

Doing it this way could make it a BIG deal back at the state level. And the state winners have the pride of (most times anyway) representing their state in a national event. The media should eat it up and the sport of BBQ grows exponentially.

So what then if Andy, for example, won the New York "state championship" contest and represented NY as a KS resident? OK, then change it so that no matter where a person won an event, they got to compete in the state championship in their own state. So say Andy wins no grands in Kansas but does in New York, he competes in the Kansas state championship. Then you assure that every team representing a state at the Royal Invitational can be proud to represent where they're from. Contest sites at the Royal could be decorated with items from the home state and a big banner proclaims which state they represent. I think this could be huge!

Another edit: If the reserve grand at a NY contest Andy wins is from New York, that reserve grand gets invited to the NY "state championship" as well while Andy goes to the Kansas one.

musicmanryann
08-05-2009, 05:02 PM
Yes, I originally thought so BUT instead of 100 contest winners in the Invitational, you only have 50... one from each state, whichever team won the "state championship". Instead of going to the Royal automatically when you win an event, you automatically get to go to a real state championship contest to determine that state's representative to the Royal. Problem being the Royal would have to agree to that format.

Doing it this way could make it a BIG deal back at the state level. And the state winners have the pride of (most times anyway) representing their state in a national event. The media should eat it up and the sport of BBQ grows exponentially.

So what then if Andy, for example, won the New York "state championship" contest and represented NY as a KS resident? OK, then change it so that no matter where a person won an event, they got to compete in the state championship in their own state. So say Andy wins no grands in Kansas but does in New York, he competes in the Kansas state championship. Then you assure that every team representing a state at the Royal Invitational can be proud to represent where they're from. Contest sites at the Royal could be decorated with items from the home state and a big banner proclaims which state they represent. I think this could be huge!

Another edit: If the reserve grand at a NY contest Andy wins is from New York, that reserve grand gets invited to the NY "state championship" as well.

I gotta be honest, I love that idea! Wouldn't it however, be less of a change from the Jack format? Aren't representatives from other countries' already chosen in this way, i.e. they are the chosen delegates from their country to the Jack, rather than being drawn?

Alexa RnQ
08-05-2009, 05:10 PM
Wow.. (and please dont take this as a shot) but this seems very elitist.
I see clarification is needed. :-P I'm the last person who could be an elitist -- we came out of the backyard last year, remember? And I can easily think of more than one team who just got their first-ever KCBS GC that I would LOVE to see get the draw.

I was thinking more in terms of what you expressed better, "give[ing] more teams shots at the big one". When there's only ONE state championship, somebody somewhere is going to gripe that the "wrong" team won. We've all seen it in print where people claim that a particular invitational is meaningless because "the best teams weren't there". Multiple qualifying contests means more bites at the apple -- and yes, it does give more teams a shot than just the "usual suspects".

I have problems with run-off contests -- it puts yet another burden on the competing teams. What if a team has maxed out their competition budget on their qualifying contest(s), and just can't swing an additional runoff contest in terms of money or time off? Should their efforts for the whole season be nullified for that? At least the draw process doesn't put additional strain on a team's resources.

And that, I suppose, is why we have multiple invitationals. They are each different in character by reason of their selection process, and teams can choose which aspect satisfies their aims best.

SmokeInDaEye
08-05-2009, 05:27 PM
hey... she wasnt a whore, she was just friendly.


anyway... that a whole notha' issue... the states where the govs office is making that determination IMO, is overstepping the bounds.. they are creating local 'rules' and applying them in a way that is not uniformaly applied nationwide. dont agtree with that either. Its not their place. All states should work the same.


ps, dont understand last paragraph. u mean stay away from the contest in the staes where govs office s butting in?

I mean should we punish organizers who work all year to get a large team following but can't get a state proclamation because the invitationals rely on how their state government interprets what is being asked of them? According to a quick glance at an unofficial Jack invite list Rod Gray did on his blog, it seems NYS is only outranked in number of qualifiers by IL, MO and KS while quite a few only have 1 or 2. Meanwhile, such nearby states as CT have 1, NJ 3, PA 2, MA and VT have 1 (I think), all with essentially the same teams competing.

There is no set criteria, ie 15 teams in place 1 mo before a contest qualifies for state sanctioning across the board. Or drop state sanctioning all together. What does it add?

Otherwise can't I go to a state that doesn't care what they give out to who, say I'm holding an "official" contest and get a proclamation then figure out how to entice 14 friends to come over to my backyard?

YankeeBBQ
08-05-2009, 05:28 PM
Question for Steve (Yankee BBQ) - you've been at this a while, won a bunch of GC's, qualified many times, past NEBS President etc, vocal and respected opinion on current KCBS issues etc...

Do you think that if KCBS membership came together in some way (ex. petition by large contingent of teams or request for topic discussion at BOD meeting etc) and sought the BOD for to make a push to the Jack or Royal committees to re-examine contest qualifications - could it happen ? If not, why ? Should it just be left alone ? If so, why ?


I don't really think this is something the KCBS BOD should be involved in. If there were some type of grassroots movement by cook teams that presented some suggestions to the invites I don't see why they wouldn't at least consider what was being presented.

I really don't have an issue with the way things are done now except the last minute proclamations and secret state championships. I think it's difficult for the invite contests to police this stuff and I don't think they want to alienate any contests so they tread lightly.

My solution would be for the Jack and Royal to publish on their websites which contests actually are qualifiers so nobody has to guess. Some contests say they are when they really are not and others say they are not but pull some last minute stunt and end up being qualifiers. I really haven't thought this through and don't know how to make it work but it would be nice to know where you stand when you enter a contest.

Diva Q
08-05-2009, 05:51 PM
I am looking for a way to make it happen but work comes first in this economy so I am being realistic. If things change, all the better.

.

I have to say that I will do just about anything to get back to the Jack again. Period. That includes flying out to two comps this year in Canada as my own province does not have a Jack ticket. It is worth it. Go without cable, cut back on your grocery bill, eat KD for 3 months if you have to - max your credit cards, fill up your line of credit. You HAVE to make it happen. At all costs. It is worth it.

You never ever know if you will get another chance. Being realistic and being a competitive BBQ'er are not things that go together.

Muzzlebrake
08-05-2009, 06:02 PM
being realistic and being a competitive bbq'er are not things that go together.

lmao!

stlgreg
08-05-2009, 06:23 PM
To throw another wrench into this. There was two contests this year in St. Louis that are state championships that are not a KCBS contest. A lot of this discussion is just for KCBS contests which technically the Jack isn't even a KCBS contest.

by their rules, one contest qualified for both the ARI, GAB, and the Jack. The other qualified just for the ARI and GAB (teams did not turn in brikset).

The former is a contest of 65-70 teams where teams compete in 8 categories over two days - the big four plus dessert, open, pork steak, and chili.

MilitantSquatter
08-05-2009, 06:43 PM
Thanks for all the great, well thought out replies so far.. it made for good reading tonight.. I was wondering who would venture into the mix...

Here's my random thoughts


State Proclamations are outdated and really are irrelevelant but I can see how the it seems more prestigious. I can also see why the Jack wants all states represented to make it National (and International)
Timing - I agree that a pre-qualified list of contests with advance notice is ideal and most fair to all teams looking to plan their schedule and/or strategy.
Playoffs at the state level would be inefficient to run.
Using highest scores at the state level would be unfair - using it as a metric nationally is even more limiting due to the regional variances that exist in GC scoring (Midwest - high scores , Northeast - low as an example
KCBS - while they don't make the decisions surely has a lot of influence/leverage in these contests.. They are the largest sanctioning body representing the most teams.. I noticed this first hand at the Jack last October during the awards ceremony. It was very clear there is a long standing relationship that is co-dependent in many ways.. I think if the KCBS teams spoke in mass requesting BOD assistance, the BOD would have to represent the membership to at least initiate a discussion
I agree that the current system works relatively well but has faults .. but nothing will change unless those who have legit gripes or viable solutions step up to see if the faults can be fixed.

Dale P
08-05-2009, 07:35 PM
I have to say that I will do just about anything to get back to the Jack again. Period. That includes flying out to two comps this year in Canada as my own province does not have a Jack ticket. It is worth it. Go without cable, cut back on your grocery bill, eat KD for 3 months if you have to - max your credit cards, fill up your line of credit. You HAVE to make it happen. At all costs. It is worth it.

You never ever know if you will get another chance. Being realistic and being a competitive BBQ'er are not things that go together.


I agree 100% and if we ever get lucky enough, i will do whatever it takes to get there. To even think about passing on The Jack is out of the question for us. We are going just to be there,.

Butcher BBQ
08-05-2009, 07:55 PM
The way I read the original post, he just wants ideas to host an invitational not work on the existing ones. My 2 cents are to take the previous years team standings be it NEBS, FBA, IBCA, KCBS, Rocky Mountain, California BBQ, and all the rest. Invite there top 10 and host a best of the best.

MilitantSquatter
08-05-2009, 08:03 PM
The way I read the original post, he just wants ideas to host an invitational not work on the existing ones. My 2 cents are to take the previous years team standings be it NEBS, FBA, IBCA, KCBS, Rocky Mountain, California BBQ, and all the rest. Invite there top 10 and host a best of the best.

I was looking for thoughts on both but it all stemmed from concerns over existing format of the some of the bigger existing contest criteria.

Yours is a good suggestion... I think that's kinda how the Best of the Best in Douglas, GA builds their contestant pool.. It's a big contest but doesn't get the same recognition as some others... Could be that it's still relatively new, maybe it's the location or something else too ??

Maybe if that contest grows and more qualifying teams embrace it, it will lessen the concern on criteria for the other big ones.. (assuming it's a well run event, which I thought it was from what I recall reading).

Butcher BBQ
08-05-2009, 08:38 PM
. was looking for thoughts on both but it all stemmed from concerns over existing format of the some of the bigger existing contest criteria.

Yours is a good suggestion... I think that's kinda how the Best of the Best in Douglas, GA builds their contestant pool.. It's a big contest but doesn't get the same recognition as some others... Could be that it's still relatively new, maybe it's the location or something else too ??

Maybe if that contest grows and more qualifying teams embrace it, it will lessen the concern on criteria for the other big ones.. (assuming it's a well run event, which I thought it was from what I recall reading)

Great info from everyone, hope it gives you or someone food for thought.

Coz
08-05-2009, 08:45 PM
I dont care if a team has 50 wins, or ZERO wins and took a GC on the first time out. "They did it, they made it, they worked for it that day and got the brass ring. If they beat top teams good for them!!! But I for one will never look down on a team for achiving a win or expect them to pull out because they hit their table of judges 4 times."

Thanks for lookin out for us little fellers.

Sledneck
08-05-2009, 08:51 PM
I mean should we punish organizers who work all year to get a large team following but can't get a state proclamation because the invitationals rely on how their state government interprets what is being asked of them? According to a quick glance at an unofficial Jack invite list Rod Gray did on his blog, it seems NYS is only outranked in number of qualifiers by IL, MO and KS while quite a few only have 1 or 2. Meanwhile, such nearby states as CT have 1, NJ 3, PA 2, MA and VT have 1 (I think), all with essentially the same teams competing.

There is no set criteria, ie 15 teams in place 1 mo before a contest qualifies for state sanctioning across the board. Or drop state sanctioning all together. What does it add?

Otherwise can't I go to a state that doesn't care what they give out to who, say I'm holding an "official" contest and get a proclamation then figure out how to entice 14 friends to come over to my backyard? First off I doubt you have 14 friends:tongue:. Why would it be wrong to do that? If they all cooked the required categories and had fair judging I dont see it as a problem. None of us are professionals so why shouldnt one of the 15 guys in your backyard have a chance?

BBQchef33
08-05-2009, 10:25 PM
I mean should we punish organizers who work all year to get a large team following but can't get a state proclamation because the invitationals rely on how their state government interprets what is being asked of them? According to a quick glance at an unofficial Jack invite list Rod Gray did on his blog, it seems NYS is only outranked in number of qualifiers by IL, MO and KS while quite a few only have 1 or 2. Meanwhile, such nearby states as CT have 1, NJ 3, PA 2, MA and VT have 1 (I think), all with essentially the same teams competing.

is that because the gov office is butting in and limiting qualifers(i thought only PA did that), or is it that the count of contests overall in the state? We(NY) only had one qualifer back in 2004, 05 and 06 had ribfest, 07 added more(us and lake placid?) and then we experienced a few more that cropped up as the sport grew in NE. If a state only has one contest, folks have to step up and organize more...

Point is if during decision time, choices include a state with only one contest and its a qualifer, going agaisnt a state with lots of qualifers and a choice of locations, sorry, but my travel time and fuel costs, lodging, etc are higher up on my list than returning to a contest for the sake of returning. Sucks for them, but its how I choose. Be sure that if we had a 5-6 contest saturation of qualifers within 150 miles of home, and my options were limited by time or cost, I sure wouldnt be driving 6 hours salisbury and 4 to albany.

HoDeDo
08-05-2009, 10:28 PM
These invitationals extend past KCBS sanctioned events -- so any contest can request to be included in these invitational events. I think if a contest meets the criteria of that invitational, it is fair game. 15 in your backyard.... or better yet, skip the state champ designation and just get 50 teams...

I would think the BoD has no reason to insert themselves into the requests that cookers may have to these invitationals. If teams felt a change was needed; rally behind your ideas, and submit them to the hosts of the event for input. Every contest can be considered regardless of the rules. I guarantee all of the entries granted are at the organizers discression. Just because you meet the criteria, does not mean you automatically get included in the list... There can also be other extenuating circumstances.

For example... Todd and I had GAB Open and AR Invitiational Pork wins. Two of the qualifiers for the Butt to Butt were the GAB invitational, and the AR Open... We won pork in the exact opposite set up. BUT we did win BOTH events. Todd lobbied the organizer for an exception, since we won pork at the two "opposite" events. Not just one or the other. Our invitation was granted. Was it part of the rules, no. Was it considered by the event, and the invitation extended -- YES!

So if you would like a change, or feel you might have an extenuating circumstance, go straight to the source. No need to engage KCBS, it isnt an event in thier purview. But I would think the folks running these events would be open to ideas, thoughts etc.

Having said that, they are both sought after events to cook in, and I dont have any issues with how they the attendees are chosen. Heck sitting around with a bung in hand during the draw is the best thing ever! :)

Now if I win the NY state champ, do I have to move to that Levittown house, and get to work with Phil, and Vinny is buying me a boat??? :)

BBQchef33
08-05-2009, 10:40 PM
sorry dude, but if u come to work with me, hope u dont mind sitting in the yard poolside and being on the internet and phone all day. ?? its a rough life.

:)

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 10:44 PM
Playoffs at the state level would be inefficient to run.


How so? I don't agree. Yes, it would take planning and organization but inefficient? I don't agree.



KCBS - while they don't make the decisions surely has a lot of influence/leverage in these contests.. They are the largest sanctioning body representing the most teams.. I noticed this first hand at the Jack last October during the awards ceremony. It was very clear there is a long standing relationship that is co-dependent in many ways.. I think if the KCBS teams spoke in mass requesting BOD assistance, the BOD would have to represent the membership to at least initiate a discussion


Still, the BOD must stay within its scope of authority as a board. Interfering with the selection criteria of independent contests, especially ones that are not even KCBS sanctioned events, steps well beyond that scope of authority and could get some people in trouble. Yes, the BOD does represent the membership of KCBS, however, in this particular situation the BOD is responsible to tell the membership that they are on their own. Surely membership doesn't want the BOD to get in any legal situation that will negatively affect the KCBS.

Muzzlebrake
08-05-2009, 10:46 PM
I agree that the current system works relatively well but has faults ..


I'm curious what everyone think the faults are with the way the invitational fill their fields? The discussion seem to have turned more towards KCBS sanctioning regulations than the way contests invite teams.

I see Scottie's point about the Jack bringing back past champs but other than that it seems more geared towards the sanctioning process and the words "state champions"

I think the Royal is pretty straightforward, win a GC and you are in. Like Jorge said step up, make the drive and see if you are as much a GC as the other 100 or so other teams.

The Jack is kind of complicated and IMO could hold the draw earlier in the year so teams can plan more in advance. I think they should notify teams at least 90 prior to the comp. They can get away with short notice because it is such a cool place to be......and for the record I wouldn't turn down an invite if I got one the week of the comp

KC_Bobby
08-05-2009, 10:47 PM
Yes, I originally thought so BUT instead of 100 contest winners in the Invitational, you only have 50... one from each state, whichever team won the "state championship". Instead of going to the Royal automatically when you win an event, you automatically get to go to a real state championship contest to determine that state's representative to the Royal. Problem being the Royal would have to agree to that format.

Doing it this way could make it a BIG deal back at the state level. And the state winners have the pride of (most times anyway) representing their state in a national event. The media should eat it up and the sport of BBQ grows exponentially.

So what then if Andy, for example, won the New York "state championship" contest and represented NY as a KS resident? OK, then change it so that no matter where a person won an event, they got to compete in the state championship in their own state. So say Andy wins no grands in Kansas but does in New York, he competes in the Kansas state championship. Then you assure that every team representing a state at the Royal Invitational can be proud to represent where they're from. Contest sites at the Royal could be decorated with items from the home state and a big banner proclaims which state they represent. I think this could be huge!

Another edit: If the reserve grand at a NY contest Andy wins is from New York, that reserve grand gets invited to the NY "state championship" as well while Andy goes to the Kansas one.

What if the team members reside in more then one state? For instance, if Boondoggle were ever to win a GC, would we represent IA or MO? I highly doubt we are the only team that fits this bill. In fact, I know a team in IA tearing it up and the two main cooks live in different states.

Muzzlebrake
08-05-2009, 10:58 PM
Now if I win the NY state champ, do I have to move to that Levittown house,

why bother? keep the money the you would spend on taxes and just keep flying in for them.......by that time we can probably have you a trailer/cooker combo prepostitioned here on the East Coast :cool:

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 11:14 PM
What if the team members reside in more then one state? For instance, if Boondoggle were ever to win a GC, would we represent IA or MO? I highly doubt we are the only team that fits this bill. In fact, I know a team in IA tearing it up and the two main cooks live in different states.

I guess in these instances, you'd have to pick a "home" state. Chief cook's state would be my suggestion.

MilitantSquatter
08-05-2009, 11:30 PM
How so? I don't agree. Yes, it would take planning and organization but inefficient? I don't agree.




Still, the BOD must stay within its scope of authority as a board. Interfering with the selection criteria of independent contests, especially ones that are not even KCBS sanctioned events, steps well beyond that scope of authority and could get some people in trouble. Yes, the BOD does represent the membership of KCBS, however, in this particular situation the BOD is responsible to tell the membership that they are on their own. Surely membership doesn't want the BOD to get in any legal situation that will negatively affect the KCBS.



Maybe inefficient was not the right word... but except for MO or KS, I just can't see anyone coordinating activities for a playoff for a handful of teams whether it be 10, 12 etc. And as DivaHerself noted, regardless of the team count, it puts another financial burden on a GC team to fund another contest.

As far as the BOD - you noted that it must stay within scope.. but I believe one of your earlier posts suggested the potential of KCBS holding their own national championship contest.. (Not a bad idea, but not what KCBS does right now.. they sanction, not organize... Right now, KCBS draws the line at TOY points.


I'm no legal expert so not sure who would get in trouble or what legal situation could arise from the BOD listening to membership and then make a "recommendation or suggestion", not a mandate. Again, what I took away from the Jack awards last October was that the Jack organization and KCBS, dating back to Carolyn and Gary Wells, were intimately involved in the evolution of that event. I would think the Jack would more receptive to a suggestion coming from the largest sanctioning body rather than a few random e-mails/calls from miscalleneous cooks not properly organized.

Jeff_in_KC
08-06-2009, 08:30 AM
Maybe inefficient was not the right word... but except for MO or KS, I just can't see anyone coordinating activities for a playoff for a handful of teams whether it be 10, 12 etc. And as DivaHerself noted, regardless of the team count, it puts another financial burden on a GC team to fund another contest.

It's definitely an idea that would need to be given more thought and grow but if I only organized and did not compete, I'd love the chance to host the Missouri State Championship BBQ competition in Pleasant Hill! To me, putting on a contest for 10 to 15 teams would be a BREEZE compared to what we already do. You'd promote it differently and for different reasons and the additional hub bub that goes along with most contests wouldn't be there. Wouldn't even have to pay out big because the contest results and what happens to the winner would be what was important.

As far as the BOD - you noted that it must stay within scope.. but I believe one of your earlier posts suggested the potential of KCBS holding their own national championship contest.. (Not a bad idea, but not what KCBS does right now.. they sanction, not organize... Right now, KCBS draws the line at TOY points.

Kind of apples to oranges in my mind. While I agree KCBS only sanctions right now, that's not to say they could not expand their focus (and maybe the KCBS organizing isn't the right thought... maybe they SPONSOR it and find a local organizer to run it). However, when it comes to the BOD and their scope of authority, it is never OK to just expand that to where it is meddling in the affairs of contests that, while there may be a relationship, how they run them is not the business of the Board.

Plowboy
08-06-2009, 08:34 AM
Wouldn't even have to pay out big because the contest results and what happens to the winner would be what was important.

And what would that be? I have yet to see anyone really cash in on big wins like this. I'd rather have $15k than the "fame".

Scottie
08-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Or Todd, you turn that "fame" into a business... A lot of folks have turned to a full time BBQ business after winning something big. I did not have those aspirations. I instead focus on my cause and how it can bring the "fame" to it...

But in your circumstance, I can see that "fame" turning into much more than $15k....

Diva
08-06-2009, 09:08 AM
What if the team members reside in more then one state? For instance, if Boondoggle were ever to win a GC, would we represent IA or MO? I highly doubt we are the only team that fits this bill. In fact, I know a team in IA tearing it up and the two main cooks live in different states.


They go by the Chief Cooks hometown.


The Jack is kind of complicated and IMO could hold the draw earlier in the year so teams can plan more in advance. I think they should notify teams at least 90 prior to the comp. They can get away with short notice because it is such a cool place to be......and for the record I wouldn't turn down an invite if I got one the week of the comp


In 2002 we were the first alternate. I had hotel reservations, EVERYTHING! The Friday before the Jack I cancelled everything. The Tuesday OF the Jack I called just to check and see....lo and behold, someone backed out. Kyle and I were on the road at 8 am the next morning. GOOD TIMES!

SmokeInDaEye
08-06-2009, 09:13 AM
First off I doubt you have 14 friends:tongue:. Why would it be wrong to do that? If they all cooked the required categories and had fair judging I dont see it as a problem. None of us are professionals so why shouldnt one of the 15 guys in your backyard have a chance?

Nice! I actually planned a contest at my parents home in Connecticut next weekend. Unfortunately for everyone but me it conflicts with New Paltz and is now closed after capping out at 15 teams (aka my nieces and nephews). Proclamation is in the works.:twisted:

(Note, obviously the above is meant as a joke as Sledneck is the winner of the only CT sanctioned contest for the season and he would no longer be an automatic, but under the current method of thinking by some, this setup should be considered fair game).

Plowboy
08-06-2009, 12:14 PM
Or Todd, you turn that "fame" into a business... A lot of folks have turned to a full time BBQ business after winning something big. I did not have those aspirations. I instead focus on my cause and how it can bring the "fame" to it...

But in your circumstance, I can see that "fame" turning into much more than $15k....

No doubt that it is a huge step in building that resume. Other than Mike and Debbie Davis or Chris Marks of Three Little Pigs, who has taken the AMR or Jack to full time BBQ status that weren't there before? I can think of a lot of small business ventures, but am drawing a blank on full timers.

I do understand that it is what you make of it. Some folks may not want or know how to take it full time. I certainly don't, or I'd be there... well, I don't have the "fame" either. Haven't won a big one.

Jeff_in_KC
08-06-2009, 02:50 PM
And what would that be? I have yet to see anyone really cash in on big wins like this. I'd rather have $15k than the "fame".

Winning the state title means you go to the national event, be it the Royal Invitational, the Jack or some new "national title" contest.

Geez, I thought college football is screwy in crowning its national champion! BBQ trumps even the BCS mess! :lol:

Dustaway
08-06-2009, 03:04 PM
The only thing we need is national organization much like nascar owned by a private interest that could bring in major sponsor with cash prizes and have their own sanctioned contest and governing rules. we could have 75 events nationwide then take the top twenty five in points then have the final 20 events with the last two being the royal and the final being the jack to crown the champion with a huge paycheck of million bucks of course by doing this all by a point system you run the risk of the last event being anticlimactic


or we could just leave it alone?

The_Kapn
08-06-2009, 04:14 PM
I understand the frustration expressed by the Brothers above.

Here is what has always confused me.

The concept of a "State Championship" seems to be merged with a "qualifier" for some of the Invitationals.
That may have some historical basis, but I do not know,
It just makes sense to me that each Invitational organizer is free to determine the requirements to qualify for their contest--but it would help if they were "divorced" from the concept of "State Championship'.
Basically, take the politics out of it.

Each Invitational organizer should just list the requirements as they see fit--i.e.
Minimum number of teams?
Which meats must be cooked?
Smokers (Pits) allowed or prohibited, if any.
Whatever they feel is important to them.

Then, let the event organizer meet these requirements.
They could submit a petition to the Invitational Organizer in advance, or a report after the event that they met the requirements and submit the list of "winners".
Whatever worked.

"State Championships" is a whole other nut-roll.
No cookie cutter answer.
One possibility--and I am not saying this is THE Answer.:oops:
It is just a well thought approach by one sanctioning body.

Many states are now represented by a regional sanctioning body.
Maybe they can establish a State Championship event within their region.
Using the FBA as just an example, they determine the "FBA State Champion" for FL, GA, and AL This is done by the BOD selecting an an event from those events that apply for the title. The requirements are posted on the FBA website.
--------------
SECTION 9 - FBA STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS AND TRIPLE CROWN QUALIFIERS

Annually, the FBA Board of Directors shall designate an FBA State Championship in each state where we sanction contests. In order to be considered as an FBA State Championship a contest must have been sanctioned for a minimum of 3 (three) consecutive years, accommodate a minimum of 40 (forty) teams, and have a favorable Rep review for each of those years. No contest can be an FBA State Championship in successive years. Contests wishing to be considered for FBA State Championship must make their desires known in writing prior to the annual FBA Funcook and General Meeting where the Board's selections shall be announced. There are 9 (nine) Triple Crown Qualifiers each year, three per state. They are made up of the current year's and previous two year's FBA State Championships for that state.
---------------------
To me, that is as close to establishing a valid way to determine the FBA State Champion as I have seen.

How does this translate to an area outside of the FBA or some other active sanctioning body????
I have NO CLUE! :lol:
Just a starting point for discussion.

I just have trouble with the concept of a Politician making the call on "BBQ State Championship Events".
That's all.

With all of that being said---I still feel the "Best of the Best" in Douglas GA may be the model for a real championship event.
There are 13 sanctioning bodies (last I heard) in the US.
Kell invites the top 5 or 10 of each sanctioning body and then blends the rules of all those bodies.
That is the teams that have cooked well over a series of events.
That is about as select a group of teams as you can find and rules that challenge us all.

Just some thoughts--
I am not one of those teams who has a dog in this fight---I just struggle to pay the bills! :oops:

TIM

lunchlady
08-10-2009, 01:53 PM
this is a very interesting discussion. Lots of opinions.

Firstly,
It is up to the invitationals to do what they want with their events. period. They make their own rules.

A few years ago the NEBS BoD discussed having only one state championship (with proclamation) in each New England state. It didn't pan out because, as many have pointed out, it really isn't their job, or KCBS' either, to do this. If an organizer wants to go get a governors proclamation, in order to entice MORE teams to come to their event, it is their perogative. Do I think it is fair? Sometimes, no.

I, for one, am THRILLED with New York having more and more events. This sport is growing so fast in this area, and like Pooh said, the more contests there are, the better for everyone. Kudos to the people stepping up and organizing, they don't get nearly enough thanks.

I also agree that the state championship/proclamation thing is getting too watered down. If an organizer gets a proclamation for a 3 category event, or gets a proclamation right before the event, etc. , etc. ... aren't they, at the very least, BENDING the basic rules that are already in place? That is how it looks to me, and I am NOT picking on any specific event...
I also have to wonder if these same organizers are being lead in those directions... if so, then it's not their fault.... they are just doing what is recommended to them. Many first time organizers have no clue what they are getting into and if someone says to them "get a proclamation, more teams will come" then of course they will go get one.
Enough on that...

SIDE... if you get drawn, GO TO THE JACK!!!! You may never get the chance again and YOU DESERVE IT! You went, you cooked and you WON... so just do it. Like DivaQ says... cancel cable, walk to work, and eat Ramen noodles for a while, it is worth it! If you need any help, just say the word and I am sure that many of us would be there in a New York minute...heheh. It's tough, as I DO have a dog in that fight.. we are in the NY draw as well, against many of our good friends. I'd like to see them go to the Jack... but we want to go back too. So I'll root for lunchmeat on the day of the draw, but I'll celebrate madly for any of my friends if they get picked and we don't.

CMALANGA
08-19-2009, 08:11 PM
How about we just cook good food, and if we are so fortunate to get a call, and then a GC call that qualifies, and then the draw, we suck it up pack up the trailer and go to the Jack. What kind of bitchy crap is this? We're cooking BBQ:-D. I wonder if Ed Mitchell stays up at night dreaming of what qualfies and what doesn't?