PDA

View Full Version : Breaking Up with Laurie...


Juggy D Beerman
08-03-2009, 02:45 PM
Sorry Laurie, Our 16 year relationship has come to an end. Juggy will no longer come to your town to visit you. I love your contest, the organizer and volunteers do a wonderful job. The location is beautiful and the facilities are nice too. I have watched the contest site greatly improve over the years. This was our family's favorite contest and we have always had a family gathering for this contest. I have a lot of friends that live in the area that visit us too.

The last contest my dear departed dad cooked at was the Laurie contest and my brother and I still cook this contest as a way of honoring his memory. We have won quite a few ribbons over the 14 contests we have cooked there, but we won't be back.

So what has happened that has made me turn my back on you, Laurie? I can't take any more of your inconsistent judging! The lowest scores our team has ever received has been at various contests at Laurie. You have too many celebrity judges and local dignitaries who are too concerned about taking food home and not honestly judging what they are served. I never saw so many people heading to the judging tent carrying coolers. These were not CBJs doing this either, these were your local judges.

I have taken some of these low and inconsistent scores before without complaining, but this year was the final straw. One year two of your judges gave me a 3 in appearance on my pork. The other scores were 8s and 9s. I kept my mouth shut that time, but this time I will not.

My ribs this year weren't the best I have ever cooked, but they sure as hell weren't the worst ribs I have ever cooked. But your judges thought they were. A score of 142 and placing 71st out of 78 teams was a kick in the groin. I won't discuss the chicken scores as I don't have the table scores in front of me. I do know that one judge gave an overall score of 17, while other judges rated the chicken with scores in the 30s.

I usually don't care about the prize money at contests. And if someone had not pointed out this fact to me, I never would have realized this. Your contest took in over $15K in entry fees but paid out less than $5,500.oo. I don't mind supporting your city park as I have watched grow and improve over the years, but you could give a little more money back to the teams who have supported you over the years.

I feel like I am breaking up with an old girlfriend, but it is time for me to move on. My brother and I both agree that if Dad were still alive, he would also say that it is time to move on and go some place else where the judging is more consistent.

So am alone with my sentiments about the judging at Laurie? Did anyone else receive some off the wall scores in their entries?

Disclaimer: I am not trying to sound like sour grapes. This was difficult for me to write. Once again, I congratulate everyone who got a call at this contest. I had a great time this weekend until I saw some of our scores.

Lager,

Juggy

Jacked UP BBQ
08-03-2009, 02:54 PM
It took you fourteen years to figure out it was the judges fault???? God forbid 77 other teams cook better ribs then you!!! Just bustin your balls!! I actually feel your pain, there is no box worth a 3.

musicmanryann
08-03-2009, 03:02 PM
I probably wouldn't go simply for the low percentage payout. I know they ended up getting more teams than they expected, but that is real low. I'm still new at this, but I haven't seen anything like that before.

As for the judging. It is unfortunate you have experienced less than consistent scores at this contest--both this year and in years past. Wouldn't inconsistent scoring at a contest be something that would potentially affect all the teams there? Yeah, perhaps there were only a few bad tables and you hit them all, but it is supposed to be random, and if it is, next year you will have an equal chane of hitting the good ones and putting up a crooked number. All in all I am sorry for your bad experience.

Ford
08-03-2009, 04:05 PM
Man I feel your pain but a 142 ain't bad. I had a 129 brisket this year and it wasn't great - a little underdone but it sure was better than a 129. Was 3rd overall by a handful of points. There's always going to be that table at some contests and if you hit it your real PO'd. Now I sometimes fear occasional CBJ's more than celebs. And sometiems you can't understand how your pork entry finished 6th out of 35 teams when you thought it was below average.

And 3's in pork appearance - I just hope the rep talked to them. There's no excuse for that.

At the end of the day you need to be happy leaving the contest or it's time to ask if you want to return. That's the bottom line for me. Of course I could be vending so much next year I won't have time for contests. Who knows.

ique
08-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Wouldn't inconsistent scoring at a contest be something that would potentially affect all the teams there?

It seemed like it did. When I read the Laurie results it seemed that teams were all over the place with some really low scores for some top teams. I'm guessing that when it was time to call RGC and GC it was pretty up in the air as to who won.

Sawdustguy
08-03-2009, 04:21 PM
Your disclaimer isn't working. It still sounds like sour grapes to me. I just call it the way I see it. Lets face it, judging is flawed. If everyone ran from a bad score, you would see quite a few contests go away. Judging is all over the place everywhere. If rib scores at one contest bother you, it sounds like it is time to hang it up. Sorry, but thats the way I see it.

The Pickled Pig
08-03-2009, 04:55 PM
In this region of the country there is no reason to attend a contest that has issues. We always have a choice on where to go. And voting with your feet is the most effective way to make a point. If I have a single bad experience I won't go back to a contest. It may sound like sour grapes to some but they don't have 6 events to choose from within a 2 hour drive on any given weekend. To me, it sounds like you've tolerated it for far too long Juggy.

And the low payouts are simply inexcusable. We cooks should stick together and avoid supporting contests that make their dough on the backs of the cooks. That's what the event sponsors are for.

kcpellethead
08-03-2009, 05:02 PM
Good read Juggy. Where we going next year?

Buster Dog BBQ
08-03-2009, 05:05 PM
I feel your pain. When you have cooked enough contest to the point you're consistent, you have a pretty good idea where and what you should score. Some days you don't come in as high as you want and other days it's lower then expected. But nonetheless it is frustrating to know what you cooked and come away far worse then you ever imagined. We had a contest earlier this year where that happened. It's a tough pill to swallow.

Scottie
08-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Good read Juggy. Where we going next year?



Well... I happen to know of this little golf outing... By the beginning of August, I am sure you need a week off from bbq too! Juggy, I also have Budweiser as a sponsor... ;-)

Paola Greg
08-03-2009, 05:17 PM
Good read Juggy. Where we going next year?

Read the results of Iola. You'll be there next year, if good, consistent judging is important to you.......I know it is.

Solidkick
08-03-2009, 05:55 PM
If you can get 6 identifiable pieces in a box, it's a 6.....farking 3s?
Juggy, you are not the first I've heard complain about the scoring at Laurie.

Best of luck to you wherever you cook next year to replace this contest.......

Solidkick
08-03-2009, 05:59 PM
Your disclaimer isn't working. It still sounds like sour grapes to me. I just call it the way I see it. Lets face it, judging is flawed. If everyone ran from a bad score, you would see quite a few contests go away. Judging is all over the place everywhere. If rib scores at one contest bother you, it sounds like it is time to hang it up. Sorry, but thats the way I see it.
That was a little harsh, Guy....here in the midwest we can cook a contest about every weekend within a couple hundred miles of us, and most of them closer than that.....we do see scoring all over the place, but suggesting to hang it up, that's just a little over the top....

Jeff Hughes
08-03-2009, 06:46 PM
I understand the money deal. It was my feeling too. That comp should have paid out 10k at least. It's why I won't go back.

I understand being bummed about a 3. My friend Ronnie Wade(Blazen BBQ) got one a couple of weeks ago in Fort Smith. Our system is good but not perfect.

But, I think it really takes away from those who did well to complain about the judging. If you didn't deserve the scores you got, it implies those who did well did not deserve to do so either. I find that concept insulting.

That was a high scoring comp with a lot of very good cooks. I was head over heals happy, and I only got one call. It really meant a lot to me to have a good showing in that crowd.

I agree with going where you are going to be happy cooking, I just hate it when people start complaining about the judges...

Jeff

Jeff Hughes
08-03-2009, 06:51 PM
It seemed like it did. When I read the Laurie results it seemed that teams were all over the place with some really low scores for some top teams. I'm guessing that when it was time to call RGC and GC it was pretty up in the air as to who won.

No one was surprised when Andy won. The top ten were all known(maybe not nationally) teams. There were probably 25 teams that had a very good chance of winning that deal.

Jorge
08-03-2009, 07:43 PM
Your disclaimer isn't working. It still sounds like sour grapes to me. I just call it the way I see it. Lets face it, judging is flawed. If everyone ran from a bad score, you would see quite a few contests go away. Judging is all over the place everywhere. If rib scores at one contest bother you, it sounds like it is time to hang it up. Sorry, but thats the way I see it.

I think that's a bit tough. While I don't know Juggy personally, we have some mutual friends. He's cooked more than a few contests and is entitled to his opinion.

Mo-Dave
08-03-2009, 07:44 PM
First let me say congrates to all that got to walk in Laurie. Unfortunately I was not even close this year in fact this was my worst ever in Laurie, my home town no less. Yes the scores are usually all over the place but that can happen anywhere, for instance I turned in roasted corn on the cob in the open and one judge gave me a 6 in tenderness every one else gave me 8s or 9s, now this was without a doubt the most tender corn I have ever had, my wife who can only eat it after cutting it off the cob because of her dentures, was able to eat it right off the cob with no problem. Well maybe it was too tender for that judges liking I don't know but that is not my gripe.

For the last two or three years I have been amazed that the payout at Laurie is so pitiful. There are dozens of contest half their size with equal to or better than what is given here, even if they raised the entry fee and gave a better payout I would feel better about it but with all the hard sale fund raisers they have and they do have a few, along with most of the help being volunteers, add in the sponsors and beer garden I see no reason for this low ball payout and will have to rethink my involvement in the future with this contest.

Juggy, Judges will always throw us a curve or two that is just the nature of the beast but I must agree Laurie has gotten away with highway robbery for years. They are striving to hit a 100 teams but what they don't seem to understand is If they payed out better they probably would have already archived this.
Dave

DocStl
08-03-2009, 08:18 PM
First off, I want to say congrats to everyone that got a call! I was setup next to Juggy at Laurie, Nice folks for sure. After talking to him for the 2 days we were there, I gotta say, the man has been around bbq for a long time. But, as a cook, organizer and CBJ, I will not cook this contest again for several reasons.
First as a cook, I know of several CBJ's that called the contest 2 weeks before and asked to judge, they were told they were full and not needed.
60% CBJs I believe were there, and could have been maybe 70-80? who knows? But as an organizer I would have asked the last non cbjs to step down or help in another capacity. (turn in, leftover table,etc) still can get plenty to take home there.
As an organizer, we had a first year event with 29 teams, our payout was 4300.00 in cash and over 1000.00 in trophies, plus breakfast, coffee, doughnuts,popcorn, icecream, event shirts, and goodie bags for all the teams, We spent 10,000.00 on our contest. We tried to make the cooks first and foremost.
Our overall score at this contest was around 647, respectable in a crowd of great cooks, but not our best scores. But the same pork thats been scoring so high all year took 55th? Hey, it happens, hard to swallow, but it just does. Not blaming the judging, the reps or anyone but maybe luck of the draw. (any given table, any given day)
And juggy, we would love ya to come cook our contest! we give 9's across the board to everyone :eek:

Alexa RnQ
08-03-2009, 08:55 PM
You have too many celebrity judges and local dignitaries

We cooks should stick together and avoid supporting contests that make their dough on the backs of the cooks.
Both of these are core statements. There are a lot of issues that cooks can unite on:

CBJ percentage: this should be disclosed in advance of the contest, at least with a ballpark figure. Experienced organizers know approximately how many teams to expect, and how many judges they'll need, and should be recruiting them as vigorously and as far in advance as they do the teams.

Payout schedule: if KCBS requires a letter of guarantee 90 days in advance, then the payout is a known quantity at that time. Make it public. Ask if it's not.

Infrastructure: Again, something that comes with experience, but if a contest has inadequate sanitary facilities, dumpsters, graywater disposal etc. etc. for the needs of the teams and the public in attendance year after year, there's no excuse.

There are a number of ways cooks can make their concerns known. Filling out and returning KCBS comment forms is one -- I just found out this year that KCBS actually keeps them on file, and when sanctioning time rolls around the following year the organizer is asked, "How do you plan to address these issues this year?"

Teams can ask the hard questions weeks or months in advance of a competition; just assuming that everything will work out in the end is not a proactive stance, and if you get burned you can't say you did your part if you never spoke up.

In areas where there are multiple contests on any given weekend, it's a buyer's market. Teams and their entry fees are the buyers.

And the bottom line is, if you want a better contest, then be a better contestant. Observe the venue's rules, leave your space as clean as you found it, compliment good performance and offer constructive criticism on poor performance. Communication and feedback are an important part of a team's contribution to a contest's future.

Jeff_in_KC
08-03-2009, 09:19 PM
Bubba had the same issues with the judging last year. In fact, I was a little surprised to see him back this year. But he did pretty well this time.

KC_Bobby
08-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Devils advocate here - Why would an organizer raise the prizes if it's getting 70 plus teams?

As a cook, I know some good reasons to do that and up the percentage of CBJ's (both centering around good reputation), but if the organizer isn't feeling the heat, they don't have much of an incentive.

Plowboy
08-03-2009, 10:00 PM
Devils advocate here - Why would an organizer raise the prizes if it's getting 70 plus teams?

As a cook, I know some good reasons to do that and up the percentage of CBJ's, but if the organizer isn't feeling the heat, they don't have much of an incentive.

There's a lot of truth to that. Laurie gets a lot of local teams or rather teams who have lake homes. Those folks will be there no matter the prize money or judging.

Mo-Dave
08-03-2009, 10:33 PM
There's a lot of truth to that. Laurie gets a lot of local teams or rather teams who have lake homes. Those folks will be there no matter the prize money or judging.

That and the fact that as I understand it this is a triple point contest so a lot of teams will do it to vi for TOY no matter what and I think they know this. Like I said the judging does not really bother me to much, I just need to be a better cook but its a hard nut to swallow when it comes to the payout verses the numbers of teams.
Dave

Plowboy
08-03-2009, 10:35 PM
[quote=Plowboy;988998]There's a lot of truth to that. Laurie gets a lot of local teams or rather teams who have lake homes. Those folks will be there no matter the prize money or judging.[/quote

That and the fact that as I understand it this is a triple point contest so a lot of teams will do it to vi for TOY no matter what and I think they know this. Like I said the judging does not really bother me to much, I just need to be a better cook but its a hard nut to swallow when it comes to the payout verses the numbers of teams.
Dave

Double and triple points is the old scoring system. However, 77 bonus points is about double the average.

Mo-Dave
08-03-2009, 10:38 PM
[quote=Mo-Dave;989042]

Double and triple points is the old scoring system. However, 77 bonus points is about double the average.

Glade someone knows whats going on.:-D So now a team is awarded points on the number of teams at a contest?
Dave

Captain Caveman
08-03-2009, 10:42 PM
Read the results of Iola. You'll be there next year, if good, consistent judging is important to you.......I know it is.

I agree. Iola was a great comp. Great venue, nice people, car show, low entry fee, free ice, water, electricity, and showers.

I went to Laurie last year (and had a good time) but it was a bit of a drive for us (3 1/2 hours). last year when leaving Laurie, I didn't have that feeling that this was a "must do" comp for next year.

CivilWarBBQ
08-03-2009, 11:19 PM
CBJ percentage: this should be disclosed in advance of the contest, at least with a ballpark figure.

Payout schedule: if KCBS requires a letter of guarantee 90 days in advance, then the payout is a known quantity at that time. Make it public.

Prize money is listed in the Bullsheet and online in the KCBS.us event schedule. The CBJ percentage of the previous year is also listed for repeating contests.

The Pickled Pig
08-03-2009, 11:23 PM
Devils advocate here - Why would an organizer raise the prizes if it's getting 70 plus teams?

As a cook, I know some good reasons to do that and up the percentage of CBJ's (both centering around good reputation), but if the organizer isn't feeling the heat, they don't have much of an incentive.

Prize money isn't that important if you're not winning any. I certainly didn't care about it until we started winning some. Now it covers more than half of our expenses and allows us to compete more often so I am paying more and more attention to it. I deplore paying a high entry fee, getting hit up for several fund raising things during the event, and then suffering low payouts so the organizer can apply the funds to the cause of the day.

None of the contests I have on my personal black list miss my attendance one bit. They are all doing just fine without me and I am doing just fine without them. I usually don't raise a stink or bad mouth low paying events unless asked about them. I just don't go back. I recognize others participate for different reasons and respect that. We'll even do some contests with low payouts if there is some other compelling reason to do so.

Over the last year we've competed in several KCBS contests that pay 100% of entry fees out in prizes. We've even done one that paid 300% out in prizes. It can be done but more teams need to vote with their feet and their dollars to get that point across. I think most cooks are not as aware of the payouts as they could be. KCBS publishes the prize money on the schedule when that info is available but the ratio of entry fees:payouts is missing.

What we need is some sort of contest score card that we can reference when planning. Something that clearly indicates amenities, CBJs (not just last year's %), prize money ratio, expected teams, and a central repository of feedback from cooks and organizers alike. In this area we have so many contests to choose from and so many cooks who participate that the market will sort out the winners if the information is presented.

KC_Bobby
08-03-2009, 11:32 PM
1 board vote for Paul here

SaucyWench
08-03-2009, 11:39 PM
If you can get 6 identifiable pieces in a box, it's a 6.....farking 3s?


I can't even imagine how bad an entry would have to look for me to give it a 3 in appearance, especially in pork, but does just getting 6 identifiable portions into a box really make it deserve a 6? What if it's 6 identifiable burnt-to-a-crisp ribs, like my table had this past weekend? While they did look like some of my DH's home cooking (sorry honey) and they definitely had a distinctive smoky smell during presentation, were they really average comp ribs just because there were 6 in the box?

Okay, I'm done stirring the pot...

BBQ Grail
08-03-2009, 11:43 PM
What's really interesting to me, as a non competitor is that the reason people complain about comps is prize money and judging. But the reasons they give FOR competing has nothing to do with prize money or judging.

I've only competed once. I had a blast. We walked in pork. But if I were to compete again it would have nothing to do with the walk. It would be about the friends I get to spend time with, the good we did raising money for a charity.

I wouldn't trade the memories, location and time with friends for a few extra bucks and some lousy scores on pieces of cooked protein.

But that's just me...

Alexa RnQ
08-04-2009, 12:19 AM
I wouldn't trade the memories, location and time with friends for a few extra bucks and some lousy scores on pieces of cooked protein.
Nobody's asking you to. It's not an either/or.
We have all the fun we can stand within the confines of a sanctioned competition. The camaraderie there is second to no other hobby.

What toasts me is when the concerns of serious competitors are cavalierly dismissed with remarks like "Relax, it's just BBQ, man, it's about the fun."

Have fun at a straight-up fundraiser or BBQ party. When you come to a contest, some of us are there to compete. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif

BBQ Grail
08-04-2009, 12:48 AM
Nobody's asking you to. It's not an either/or.
We have all the fun we can stand within the confines of a sanctioned competition. The camaraderie there is second to no other hobby.

What toasts me is when the concerns of serious competitors are cavalierly dismissed with remarks like "Relax, it's just BBQ, man, it's about the fun."

Have fun at a straight-up fundraiser or BBQ party. When you come to a contest, some of us are there to compete. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif

I never said nor did I imply a "relax, it's just bbq..." attitude. It is this type of response that sours and turns me away from competing. It reminds me way to much of Little League parents.

Alexa RnQ
08-04-2009, 01:01 AM
I never said nor did I imply a "relax, it's just bbq..." attitude. It is this type of response that sours and turns me away from competing. It reminds me way to much of Little League parents.
Larry, I didn't say *you* said or implied such a thing. I had addressed your remark in the first part of my reply, in which I said that the two aims are not mutually exclusive.

I then went on to address a prevalent attitude, which you chose to personalize. We as competitors hear it ALL the time: "You guys work too hard. It's supposed to be fun." We've never said it's not supposed to be fun -- quite the opposite. For us the fun IS IN the competition -- the intensity of it is something that takes us entirely out of our usual preoccupations.

In a thread about a competition and the concerns of competitors, we still see a post deriding "a few extra bucks and some lousy scores". How does that respect the valid concerns of competitors?

BBQ Grail
08-04-2009, 01:04 AM
Larry, I didn't say *you* said or implied such a thing. I had addressed your remark in the first part of my reply, in which I said that the two aims are not mutually exclusive.

I then went on to address a prevalent attitude, which you chose to personalize. We as competitors hear it ALL the time: "You guys work too hard. It's supposed to be fun." We've never said it's not supposed to be fun -- quite the opposite. For us the fun IS IN the competition -- the intensity of it is something that takes us entirely out of our usual preoccupations.

In a thread about a competition and the concerns of competitors, we still see a post deriding "a few extra bucks and some lousy scores". How does that respect the valid concerns of competitors?

Last I will say on this. You quoted ME! What else am I suppose to think you meant. I'm disappointed...greatly.

I will never, ever venture in a "competition" area on this forum again, it's just far to contentious for me. And that should tell you something...

BBQ_Mayor
08-04-2009, 06:36 AM
:icon_shy

Dale P
08-04-2009, 07:20 AM
OK everybody it is time for a group hug.

DocStl
08-04-2009, 08:07 AM
Devils advocate here - Why would an organizer raise the prizes if it's getting 70 plus teams?

As a cook, I know some good reasons to do that and up the percentage of CBJ's (both centering around good reputation), but if the organizer isn't feeling the heat, they don't have much of an incentive.

KCBS requires a guaranteed prize money statement 90 days before the contest, we were limited to 30 teams this year, when I had to turn in my prize money amount, I only had 20 teams signed. The last 2 weeks before the contest I had 29, I then called KCBS and had them change the money amount accordingly. I think we went from 3300.00, to 4250.00. We put all new entrys back into the prize pool less the 12.00 kcbs fee

Dustaway
08-04-2009, 08:12 AM
Nobody's asking you to. It's not an either/or.
We have all the fun we can stand within the confines of a sanctioned competition. The camaraderie there is second to no other hobby.

What toasts me is when the concerns of serious competitors are cavalierly dismissed with remarks like "Relax, it's just BBQ, man, it's about the fun."

Have fun at a straight-up fundraiser or BBQ party. When you come to a contest, some of us are there to compete. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif


Diva I totally agree with you if I just wanted to relax I would just stay in my back yard and cook for the neighborhood. I was taught right or wrong that when you compete in anything do it to win. When I comp I will socialize some on Friday but when it's time to q it's game on and even during a comp If I have someone that needs something I will try to help them but I'm there to win. what is winning to me that all depends on the contest and the competition.

Sometime just placing is good enough other times it more than that:-P

musicmanryann
08-04-2009, 09:02 AM
For us the fun IS IN the competition -- the intensity of it is something that takes us entirely out of our usual preoccupations.

These are my thoughts exactly. It may not look like it but I am having the time of my life between 10 am and 1:35 pm on Saturdays, running around double checking temps, foiling my ribs, touching up my boxes, getting mise en place for turn-ins etc. I am sweating and in the "zone" and it always feels good being in that moment. It feels even better after Sonya takes the brisket box to turn-in and someone cracks open and hands me an ice-cold Sierra Nevada Pale Ale knowing in my mind I did everything I could have done to give to the judges and my family and friends the greatest bbq they have ever tasted.

Dang, I love competing!:-D:-D

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2009, 09:05 AM
Devils advocate here - Why would an organizer raise the prizes if it's getting 70 plus teams?

I can answer that from an organizer perspective... because it's the right thing to do. Stan and I return all of the entry fees (less the $12 per team sanctioning fee) back to the teams in prize money here at Pleasant Hill. We take pride in being able to offer a really nice payout here. Plus we add some additional in to Kids Q and People's Choice to make them more attractive. I think organizers have to realize that costs to compete are going up every year and they need to help the teams out a little bit if at all possible. If you are keeping entry fees, in my mnd, that's wrong! Entry fees pay prize pool. Don't be lazy - if you need other funds to cover additional costs and donate to charities, go out and get sponsors for those funds. Hold a people's choice and charge visitors $5 a head to sample the entries and vote. Is it more work? Oh HELL yes! But it's just the right thing to do to be fair with teams.

Plowboy
08-04-2009, 09:28 AM
I can answer that from an organizer perspective... because it's the right thing to do. Stan and I return all of the entry fees (less the $12 per team sanctioning fee) back to the teams in prize money here at Pleasant Hill. We take pride in being able to offer a really nice payout here. Plus we add some additional in to Kids Q and People's Choice to make them more attractive. I think organizers have to realize that costs to compete are going up every year and they need to help the teams out a little bit if at all possible. If you are keeping entry fees, in my mnd, that's wrong! Entry fees pay prize pool. Don't be lazy - if you need other funds to cover additional costs and donate to charities, go out and get sponsors for those funds. Hold a people's choice and charge visitors $5 a head to sample the entries and vote. Is it more work? Oh HELL yes! But it's just the right thing to do to be fair with teams.

What about a free market society, supply v. demand, and charging what the market will bear? Are you going socialist on us, Jeff? Are you assimilating to the new administration? :twisted: j/k

It is great that you guys are operating this way, but you certainly don't have to. Would it take away from your Good Guy status? Sure. Could you still fill your contest? Laurie does.

I ain't saying that it is right. Just saying that Bobby's got a point.

EDIT: Because of how P. Hill contest operates, you'll never see a thread like this on Jeff and Stan's contest. P.Hill = Unique/awesome awards Laurie = $500 and a GC banner that will go in the closet

Sticks-n-chicks
08-04-2009, 10:01 AM
Sorry to hear you had a bad time, our group had a blast, as for scoring we were hit hard at tongie and felt the same way. Paul is correct, we are lucky where we have a ton of contest we can choose from and we should be hitting more contests like what Jeff puts on. Jeff is a class act and runs a great contest. We need to band together and as a group make sure the organizers hear our concerns.

HoDeDo
08-04-2009, 10:16 AM
First - I apologize for the long post. :rolleyes:
I have been on both sides of the errant scoring at Laurie. I will say that you see some folks get called repeatedly down there, however -- so some flavor profiles hit better than others. So there is at least consistency in the judging year over year, at that event...

I was not joking in the contest thread, when I said I was shocked to win there... I'm used to the scores being all over. I have always racked that up to "hitting the right table". Honestly I figured that I hit a bad table in pork, when I didnt get a call for it( it was the one catagory I expected to do well in)... and got DAL or something. My ribs were average at best, and took 3rd. Go figure, right? Judging is judging. Next year if I am 35th Overall, I wont be shocked either :)

I understand Jeff's comment about raising prize money... and it being the right thing to do -- I agree that it is great, but I also know that even though little rock is going to be $100K contest next year, I may not go back. No one knows how to raise the prize money better than Ronnie Kates. And usually his events are top notch.

I view the bigger prize money for the teams as a newer advent. When I was just a wee little pit beetch for the HoDeDos 18 years ago... all the BBQ contests were there for fund raising events, so the goal was for the cause. Fireman fund, FOP Scholarship fund, St. Mary's kitchen, etc. There was enough prize money to help recoup some of your costs, or sometimes it was something donated - a week at port arrowhead, at the lake... or a week in a condo someplace else for the GC) but it was all about raising money for the event's cause - and the braggin' rights. For example, the Blue Devil existed before KCBS was sanctioning events. It was a fundraiser for the local community college. Teams competed to see who could raise the most money from the public on Friday nights.... and heck, I know several teams would donate thier winnings Sat. back to the cause and just keep the braggin rights. Strawberry Hill Smokers, Smokin in the boys room, Sparkle Plenty, Kaw Valley Bank, I know some of those guys are still cooking and can talk about it.

Laurie is crappy pay outs - but at least me personally - I get to go down on Thurs. night, go to the local haunt, and eat dinner with friends, drink shots with others that may pop in.... Friday, Cook with other friends, Watch some un-named folks fondle blow-up dolls:icon_shy:shock: - Sat. night after many teams are gone, we many times try to kill all the remaining kegs, and revel in our wins or losses. I've gotten to watch engagement parties (Yea! John and Betsy)... Kids play in the park... I could spend the same $$ on a "weekend at the lake" -- so this is even better, cuz I get to cook too.

So... would I love the prize money to go up... absolutely.
Would I like to see Susann get 100% CBJs .... sure.

Would I trade sitting across from awards in our spot under the tree, and getting heckled for being "outside the fence", blasted for drinkin' my own whiskey not their beer. And generally having 4 days of relaxation (including my birthday party, yea me:razz:) --- I wouldnt give that up for more $$ or CBJs.

I've been asked about other contests too... aka, why would you go to say, Abilene, KS just after rolling out of the GAB? it is small, and the prize money isnt great, etc. etc... Same reasons. It is a great place for my family, and we have a wonderful time with our friends. I think it will grow into one heck of an event. I hope they are able to get some good sponsors in the coming years to raise the prize money for the teams... but thier goal is fundraising for the local hospital and the expansion it needs to support the community. Heck where else can you roll into town and see cars around the band shell "clapping" with honks, as the community band finishes.

For me , if I weigh the good against the bad at Laurie, the overall experience still weights over to the "good". I have stories every year from there, that I wouldnt want to have missed. Obviously this year's story will be a long remembered one too! The win is just part of it... We also had "Jersey", a lost Gator, and the Midwest BBQ mating call on Sat. night... and my bride getting a 179.4xxx in her dessert entry. I can't pass that up.

It sounds like Juggy has alot of fond memories there as well... but this year the bad outweighed the good for him. I'm sorry to hear that was the case. I'll continue to go as long good outweighs the bad for me.

Jorge
08-04-2009, 10:24 AM
First - I apologize for the long post. :rolleyes:
I have been on both sides of the errant scoring at Laurie. I will say that you see some folks get called repeatedly down there, however -- so some flavor profiles hit better than others. So there is at least consistency in the judging year over year, at that event...

I was not joking in the contest thread, when I said I was shocked to win there... I'm used to the scores being all over. I have always racked that up to "hitting the right table". Honestly I figured that I hit a bad table in pork, when I didnt get a call for it( it was the one catagory I expected to do well in)... and got DAL or something. My ribs were average at best, and took 3rd. Go figure, right? Judging is judging. Next year if I am 35th Overall, I wont be shocked either :)

I understand Jeff's comment about raising prize money... and it being the right thing to do -- I agree that it is great, but I also know that even though little rock is going to be $100K contest next year, I may not go back. No one knows how to raise the prize money better than Ronnie Kates. And usually his events are top notch.

I view the bigger prize money for the teams as a newer advent. When I was just a wee little pit beetch for the HoDeDos 18 years ago... all the BBQ contests were there for fund raising events, so the goal was for the cause. Fireman fund, FOP Scholarship fund, St. Mary's kitchen, etc. There was enough prize money to help recoup some of your costs, or sometimes it was something donated - a week at port arrowhead, at the lake... or a week in a condo someplace else for the GC) but it was all about raising money for the event's cause - and the braggin' rights. For example, the Blue Devil existed before KCBS was sanctioning events. It was a fundraiser for the local community college. Teams competed to see who could raise the most money from the public on Friday nights.... and heck, I know several teams would donate thier winnings Sat. back to the cause and just keep the braggin rights. Strawberry Hill Smokers, Smokin in the boys room, Sparkle Plenty, Kaw Valley Bank, I know some of those guys are still cooking and can talk about it.

Laurie is crappy pay outs - but at least me personally - I get to go down on Thurs. night, go to the local haunt, and eat dinner with friends, drink shots with others that may pop in.... Friday, Cook with other friends, Watch some un-named folks fondle blow-up dolls:icon_shy:shock: - Sat. night after many teams are gone, we many times try to kill all the remaining kegs, and revel in our wins or losses. I've gotten to watch engagement parties (Yea! John and Betsy)... Kids play in the park... I could spend the same $$ on a "weekend at the lake" -- so this is even better, cuz I get to cook too.

So... would I love the prize money to go up... absolutely.
Would I like to see Susann get 100% CBJs .... sure.

Would I trade sitting across from awards in our spot under the tree, and getting heckled for being "outside the fence", blasted for drinkin' my own whiskey not their beer. And generally having 4 days of relaxation (including my birthday party, yea me:razz:) --- I wouldnt give that up for more $$ or CBJs.

I've been asked about other contests too... aka, why would you go to say, Abilene, KS just after rolling out of the GAB? it is small, and the prize money isnt great, etc. etc... Same reasons. It is a great place for my family, and we have a wonderful time with our friends. I think it will grow into one heck of an event. I hope they are able to get some good sponsors in the coming years to raise the prize money for the teams... but thier goal is fundraising for the local hospital and the expansion it needs to support the community. Heck where else can you roll into town and see cars around the band shell "clapping" with honks, as the community band finishes.

For me , if I weigh the good against the bad at Laurie, the overall experience still weights over to the "good". I have stories every year from there, that I wouldnt want to have missed. Obviously this year's story will be a long remembered one too! The win is just part of it... We also had "Jersey", a lost Gator, and the Midwest BBQ mating call on Sat. night... and my bride getting a 179.4xxx in her dessert entry. I can't pass that up.

It sounds like Juggy has alot of fond memories there as well... but this year the bad outweighed the good for him. I'm sorry to hear that was the case. I'll continue to go as long good outweighs the bad for me.

I turned off the lights in the office, went and got my fire starter, and just waved it back and forth:mrgreen:

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2009, 10:24 AM
Todd, agreed... Bob does have a point, regardless of whether it I agree with the idea behind it or not. And thank you for your very kind words about the Pleasant Hill contest! We're going to kick it up a couple of notches next year in hopes of making more of a "wow!" factor for the teams! In fact, Stan and I already talked about getting started on the planning for 2010 soon and I'm going to be sending out emails soon, asking teams who have cooked here what we could do better and if there's anything else they'd like to see at our event. Hopefully I'll get some good input that we can implement.

HoDeDo
08-04-2009, 10:27 AM
What about a free market society, supply v. demand, and charging what the market will bear? Are you going socialist on us, Jeff? Are you assimilating to the new administration? :twisted: j/k
EDIT: Because of how P. Hill contest operates, you'll never see a thread like this on Jeff and Stan's contest. P.Hill = Unique/awesome awards Laurie = $500 and a GC banner that will go in the closet

GC was $1000 Todd, and you are right, I didnt even get a certificate, just a banner :)

You hit the nail on the head... Jeff's event in P Hill, is TOP NOTCH.
It doesnt have the luxury of being a 16 year old event... so, even though is it much harder today to start a new event, it will grow because of how He and Stan pour over the details. 16 years from now, Laurie may be gone, but I would be willing to bet that P Hill is alive and kicking - if Jeff and Stan can teach their roles to those that follow...

Now I will stop before I start spewing on about Jeff, BBQ, and Stimulus packages:icon_shy:twisted:

musicmanryann
08-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I turned off the lights in the office, went and got my fire starter, and just waved it back and forth:mrgreen:


:lol::lol:--LMAO!!! That was some funny chit right there.

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2009, 10:31 AM
GC was $1000 Todd, and you are right, I didnt even get a certificate, just a banner :)

You hit the nail on the head... Jeff's event in P Hill, is TOP NOTCH.
It doesnt have the luxury of being a 16 year old event... so, even though is it much harder today to start a new event, it will grow because of how He and Stan pour over the details. 16 years from now, Laurie may be gone, but I would be willing to bet that P Hill is alive and kicking - if Jeff and Stan can teach their roles to those that follow...

Now I will stop before I start spewing on about Jeff, BBQ, and Stimulus packages:icon_shy:twisted:

Oh stop, you farkers! You're making me blush! :oops: We do this for two reasons: the charities we support are important to us and because the way we look at it, what we're doing is creating an outstanding party for all of our BBQ friends! You all mean so much to us that we sort of look at it as returning the favor to everyone for your friendships! :wink:

HoDeDo
08-04-2009, 10:37 AM
Oh stop, you farkers! You're making me blush! :oops: We do this for two reasons: the charities we support are important to us and because the way we look at it, what we're doing is creating an outstanding party for all of our BBQ friends! You all mean so much to us that we sort of look at it as returning the favor to everyone for your friendships! :wink:

Next year, donate the money for the band to the charities :twisted: I made that suggestion last year, too hehehehehe

Lion Bout The Q
08-04-2009, 10:40 AM
First off, I want to say congrats to everyone that got a call! I was setup next to Juggy at Laurie, Nice folks for sure. After talking to him for the 2 days we were there, I gotta say, the man has been around bbq for a long time. But, as a cook, organizer and CBJ, I will not cook this contest again for several reasons.
First as a cook, I know of several CBJ's that called the contest 2 weeks before and asked to judge, they were told they were full and not needed.
60% CBJs I believe were there, and could have been maybe 70-80? who knows? But as an organizer I would have asked the last non cbjs to step down or help in another capacity. (turn in, leftover table,etc) still can get plenty to take home there.
As an organizer, we had a first year event with 29 teams, our payout was 4300.00 in cash and over 1000.00 in trophies, plus breakfast, coffee, doughnuts,popcorn, icecream, event shirts, and goodie bags for all the teams, We spent 10,000.00 on our contest. We tried to make the cooks first and foremost.
Our overall score at this contest was around 647, respectable in a crowd of great cooks, but not our best scores. But the same pork thats been scoring so high all year took 55th? Hey, it happens, hard to swallow, but it just does. Not blaming the judging, the reps or anyone but maybe luck of the draw. (any given table, any given day)
And juggy, we would love ya to come cook our contest! we give 9's across the board to everyone :eek:
Popcorn???? I didn't get any popcorn ,Doc...its ok though, you ran a great contest...

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2009, 10:41 AM
Next year, donate the money for the band to the charities :twisted: I made that suggestion last year, too hehehehehe

Yeaaaaahhh... as much as I like that band, we've decided that the money spent on that could go in a better direction since there weren't enough folks out there listening to it to make it worthwhile. There will only be a handful of people disappointed to hear that so it's the right decision. Thanks!

Dale P
08-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Vegas needs to start giving odds. That would be my best idea I can come up with at the moment.

Solidkick
08-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I can't even imagine how bad an entry would have to look for me to give it a 3 in appearance, especially in pork, but does just getting 6 identifiable portions into a box really make it deserve a 6? What if it's 6 identifiable burnt-to-a-crisp ribs, like my table had this past weekend? While they did look like some of my DH's home cooking (sorry honey) and they definitely had a distinctive smoky smell during presentation, were they really average comp ribs just because there were 6 in the box?

Okay, I'm done stirring the pot...


OK...maybe a 5 for being burnt....but I would think the taste and tenderness would still rule out......burnt? Really? Yuk!

Maybe I need to judge again soon so I can see some of these types turn ins.....I been looking at my own too long...:razz:

Plowboy
08-04-2009, 12:38 PM
Andy - Don't forget the Bayou Style boil on Friday night. Another reward for going to Laurie.

Plowboy
08-04-2009, 12:39 PM
Now I will stop before I start spewing on about Jeff, BBQ, and Stimulus packages:icon_shy:twisted:

Whatever, Peter Parker.

jbrink01
08-04-2009, 12:55 PM
We cooked Laurie once, and that was enough for us. The only good thing to come out of it was meeting Todd and Randy.

DMDon
08-04-2009, 01:28 PM
Todd, agreed... Bob does have a point, regardless of whether it I agree with the idea behind it or not. And thank you for your very kind words about the Pleasant Hill contest! We're going to kick it up a couple of notches next year in hopes of making more of a "wow!" factor for the teams! In fact, Stan and I already talked about getting started on the planning for 2010 soon and I'm going to be sending out emails soon, asking teams who have cooked here what we could do better and if there's anything else they'd like to see at our event. Hopefully I'll get some good input that we can implement.


Jeff,
You can put us down for 2010. If we don't win the entry from Kookers Care, then I guess we can find the entry $ somewhere. Even if I have to prostitute Bobby out.

Jorge
08-04-2009, 01:32 PM
Jeff,
You can put us down for 2010. If we don't win the entry from Kookers Care, then I guess we can find the entry $ somewhere. Even if I have to prostitute Bobby out.

Better start now....just in case....

KC_Bobby
08-04-2009, 02:21 PM
oh man :frown:

Seriously though. PHill 09 was our first comp that we left with a few more dollars in our pocket then what we had invested into the event. (2nd place PC pork, 3rd pork and 4th brisket)

And since we're on the topic of low paying comps ... Warsaw MO - we finished RGC in 2008 with a 1st in ribs, 1st in pork and 6th in brisket and all of that about paid for the gas to get there and back.

The_Kapn
08-04-2009, 03:14 PM
Teams cook events for a myriad of reasons.

Cash payout potential.
Trophy and banner awards.
TOTY points.
State Championship bragging rights.
"Invites" to major events.
"Close to home".
Supporting a favorite charity.
Visit with friends and have fun.
"Triple Crown" placings (FBA thing).
Sometimes the simple Pride of Winning is enough.

I think all of these are valid.

The only problem I have with the prize pool is when the organizer uses the entry money as a major profit center.
I do believe the prize pool should "reflect" the entry fees--not necessarily 100% but a 35% payout is just not right to me. (I have seen that offered).

A few years ago I had an organizer solicit our application-
Entry fee--$300.
Prize pool about $2500.

I told her that that was not right.
She said--"Well, it is for charity and you can deduct it".
(Not true, but that is another discussion).
My answer--"I would rather just write a check to a charity of my choice (which I do regularly and can actually deduct from income)."
The event folded due to lack of interest--go figure. :lol:

Anyway, just my nickle here.

TIM

rweller
08-04-2009, 03:34 PM
I was one of the CBJ's that was turned down. Now I know why. I'm not a celebrity :lol:.

Plowboy
08-04-2009, 04:44 PM
Laurie 2008 = 2008 1st Place Brisket = 2009 Chest to Chest Invitation = 2009 Chest to Chest Championship = Bull Penis = 2009 B2B and C2C Bookends on the same weekend = Who cares about payouts?

BBQ is about the journey.

Jeff_in_KC
08-04-2009, 07:41 PM
Laurie 2008 = 2008 1st Place Brisket = 2009 Chest to Chest Invitation = 2009 Chest to Chest Championship = Bull Penis = 2009 B2B and C2C Bookends on the same weekend = Who cares about payouts?

BBQ is about the journey.

So it's all about penis to you, huh, Todd? That's all I took from your entire post. Seriously. No really. :lol:

Diva
08-04-2009, 08:14 PM
There's nothing wrong with the peni!

kcpellethead
08-04-2009, 08:17 PM
These are my thoughts exactly. It may not look like it but I am having the time of my life between 10 am and 1:35 pm on Saturdays, running around double checking temps, foiling my ribs, touching up my boxes, getting mise en place for turn-ins etc. I am sweating and in the "zone" and it always feels good being in that moment. It feels even better after Sonya takes the brisket box to turn-in and someone cracks open and hands me an ice-cold Sierra Nevada Pale Ale knowing in my mind I did everything I could have done to give to the judges and my family and friends the greatest bbq they have ever tasted.

Dang, I love competing!:-D:-D

So, you foil your ribs, huh?

musicmanryann
08-04-2009, 08:42 PM
So, you foil your ribs, huh?

Yes. I foil with a magical collection of spices and herbs I procure by journeying to a remote temple in the deepest jungles of the Amazon. :mrgreen:

ZILLA
08-04-2009, 09:09 PM
As a promoter of a fundraiser BBQ Competition here in SA my opinion to the cooker is "Don't forget that the fundraiser comes first, the cause comes first. That's why we're there. You knew it upfront, you read it in the rules, you signed on the dotted line with full disclosure and sent in your money. If we pull in 50k for the cause and give 4k to the cookers, good for the cause! There are plenty of other comps out there that are cookercentric. Know what your getting into before you start."

The judging aspect of comps pisses me off too sometimes, but it is what it is. Ronnie wins all over the country so it all must work.

Plowboy
08-04-2009, 09:12 PM
There's nothing wrong with the peni!

You must respect the peni!

Got Tooth?

Butcher BBQ
08-05-2009, 06:37 AM
You must respect the peni!

Got Tooth?

You must respect the man when he has both in his hands.:shock:

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 08:18 AM
You must respect the man when he has both in his hands.:shock:

At Laurie? (back on topic mod! :lol: )

kcpellethead
08-05-2009, 08:48 AM
Yes. I foil with a magical collection of spices and herbs I procure by journeying to a remote temple in the deepest jungles of the Amazon. :mrgreen:

So you buy your spices on Amazon? Interesting. I'm making notes.

musicmanryann
08-05-2009, 09:18 AM
So you buy your spices on Amazon? Interesting. I'm making notes.

Yes, but you must wait to click "Confirm Order" until the moment the blood moon sets on the third week of October. Otherwise, the magic will not work.:biggrin:

Scottie
08-05-2009, 09:54 AM
Yes, but you must wait to click "Confirm Order" until the moment the blood moon sets on the third week of October. Otherwise, the magic will not work.:biggrin:


Crap, no wonder... I am always out of town that day...

paydabill
08-05-2009, 10:52 AM
I was one of the CBJ's that was turned down. Now I know why. I'm not a celebrity :lol:.

I was turned down and I snet them an email 3 months ago.

You know just reading this post - I have to admire Juggy's original post. I met him for the first time in Eldon and could tell he loved bbq and the competitions. His email speaks loudly to me. This was an not jsut a bbq competition, but rather a family tradition. DO we all agree with his reasons - I think all competitors had that one judge that made you want to go postal :icon_pissed. I appluad his courage to speak up - I just hoped he turned in the evaluation also.

Personal note - I dropped Sedalia this year after 5 years of cooking it. My wife got sick of me saying I hate Sedalia. Chris is a nice guy - the bands were great - the area is nice - and a lot of mid-mo MOFOs show, and Roadkill actually got RGC last year in Kids Q. Yet I dropped it because they do not think I can cook there. When I shelling out $600, I want to think I have a chance and outside of a 2nd place ribs ($75 pay out) I have never done well.

I bear no anger towards anyone that are affiliated - it is a personal choice. I can live with that.

Thinking about it - I cooked with Nautral Grillers at Boone County. I have never done well - but we got 3 top ten calls and 3rd overall. We have no ribbons or money to show for that. I found that to be wierd. Again I do not bear any anger towards Amy who was the organizer (because I know she would kick my a$$).

Like people say - there are ALOT of contest out there. Contest are going to have to entice people to stay or come to them.

just my .02

smoke showin'
08-05-2009, 08:37 PM
I feel your pain too . I was at a contest once where they called for volunteer judges @ 9 in the morning. How do you think that felt for all your hard work depending on people fron the crowd .

Jeff_in_KC
08-05-2009, 10:48 PM
I feel your pain too . I was at a contest once where they called for volunteer judges @ 9 in the morning. How do you think that felt for all your hard work depending on people fron the crowd .

I can do you one better! How about cooking on Saturday morning in a contest and all the while watching a bunch of politicians walk in to register as judges! :shock: Talk about not trusting the judges! :lol:

Solidkick
08-06-2009, 12:27 PM
I can do you one better! How about cooking on Saturday morning in a contest and all the while watching a bunch of politicians walk in to register as judges! :shock: Talk about not trusting the judges! :lol:
We;ve fixed that.....they're all certified politicians now.....:twisted:

trueque
11-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Looking at next years schedule, I was advised to come find this post. Great reading and thanks for the heads up.

HoDeDo
11-23-2010, 03:19 PM
Looking at next years schedule, I was advised to come find this post. Great reading and thanks for the heads up.
If you show up in Laurie, there will be a party at my place as usual. Happy birthday to me :)

Shotgun
11-23-2010, 08:04 PM
We cooked Laurie last year and had a great time! Scores were up and down, but it seemed like all contests we did last year had that issue in one way or the other. Would love to go back, may not be in the cards for next year.

HarleyEarl
11-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Read the results of Iola. You'll be there next year, if good, consistent judging is important to you.......I know it is.

Hush Greg, we're trying to keep this contest quiet:heh: Actually, this was a really good contest & great fun. It's on our planning calendar for next year.

mrichard
11-24-2010, 09:16 AM
We had a great time at Laurie. Beautiful location and well run event. Only thing I can complain about was that the awards took way to long. No need to wait for every person to walk up to the stage before announcing the next award. We will be back next year however.

Balls Casten
11-24-2010, 10:34 AM
As someone said above, at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if you enjoyed the contest.

This year at the Royal we recieved our lowest scores of the year in all four categories! Talk about a killer. Not happy with it but we're comming back for more punishment.