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View Full Version : I hate parsley--part 2


comfrank
06-29-2009, 03:59 PM
I've judged two comps this year--Roc City last month and Boston Hills this past weekend. Easily 90% of the turn in boxes were parsley beds. Man, what a pain. They look great, but when removing the entry the meat usually came out with parsley stuck all over it, particularly the "sticky" entries like chicken and ribs. My judging mat generally looked like a Chia-pet farm!

I didn't consciously mark down for this--it hadn't happened yet when judging appearance, and is irrelevant in terms of taste and tenderness--but, man, I got tired of picking parsley out of my food.

Who knows what I did unconsciously? :confused:

Pack those beds tightly, folks!


--frank in Wilson, NY

Jacked UP BBQ
06-29-2009, 04:07 PM
I bet if the parsley wasn't in there most judges will mark down. There is nothing us competitors can do about it being sticky. Pick away judges!!!!!!:)

KC_Bobby
06-29-2009, 04:22 PM
Pack those beds tightly, folks!


--frank in Wilson, NY

Oh, come on now. :shock:

You're getting the privilege of sampling some great BBQ every time you judge. I think you are sorta kidding around (at least hope so), because I think if you really felt that way you wouldn't waste your time going to judge. But it's still a bit bothersome that a judge would bring this up with all the effort most all of the teams are already putting into this.

Balls Casten
06-29-2009, 04:54 PM
I watched our neighbors at Lenexa literally sprinkle cut parsley into the bottom of the box to make the bed. Place the meat on top and close the lid. I laughed to myself, but dang if they didn’t beat us over all with 32nd place. That’s out of 180 teams so they must not have been downgraded too much.

BRBBQ
06-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Oh, come on now. :shock:

You're getting the privilege of sampling some great BBQ every time you judge. I think you are sorta kidding around (at least hope so), because I think if you really felt that way you wouldn't waste your time going to judge. But it's still a bit bothersome that a judge would bring this up with all the effort most all of the teams are already putting into this.

I agree.

MilitantSquatter
06-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Oh, come on now. :shock:

You're getting the privilege of sampling some great BBQ every time you judge. I think you are sorta kidding around (at least hope so), because I think if you really felt that way you wouldn't waste your time going to judge. But it's still a bit bothersome that a judge would bring this up with all the effort most all of the teams are already putting into this.

I disagree.. The way I read his post was that he was being honest and at the same time pointing out a reminder and clear;y noted he was not marking down conciously because of the parsley..

And your only getting the "privledge" of sampling some great BBQ each time judging.. no guarantees anything will be good.

Shotgun
06-29-2009, 06:29 PM
Boy, I would hate to think that I might get scored down because of some parsley coming off with the meat. Sounds likes its time we get rid of greens all together.

huli huli
06-29-2009, 06:43 PM
Only MEAT in the box!!!!

SaucyWench
06-29-2009, 07:10 PM
This is kind of funny. I've been judging since 2001, when everyone used lettuce with maybe a sprig or two of parsley for a little "pop." One judge would always snag the sprig on purpose, so he could cleanse his palate with it between meats!

The past couple comps here, there have been entries with all parsley, all lettuce, mixes, and a few with no garnish. I've been skeptical about whether a no-garnish entry could look as appetizing, but the ones I saw looked fine. I was table captain last weekend, and didn't see lower appearance scores based on type of garnish or lack thereof.

I for one am glad to see some variety, and I was glad to see that I wasn't prejudiced against meat on a white background. Now I know I can honestly say I look at the presentation & appearance of the meat, not what it's sitting on.

The Pickled Pig
06-29-2009, 08:15 PM
Why not take Frank's advice and make your putting green tight enough that the chicken doesn't look like a chia pet when lifted? To me, a tight parsley bed is just another one of those dozens of little things that probably doesn't matter a whole lot but it might just result in a critical point or two on occassion.

BBQ_Mayor
06-29-2009, 08:24 PM
Lets dump the garnish. It's a bbq contest, not a salad contest.

Meat Burner
06-29-2009, 08:32 PM
Guys, the garnish is why KCBS is in a league of it's own. That is the reason they do the garnish thing. If you don't like it, compete in another sanction. Deal with it!

Rub
06-29-2009, 08:43 PM
I spent an hour this past weekend building my first ever all parsley bed. Got it almost done when QN stopped by to say hi. I asked his opinion of it and he pointed out what I hadn't noticed - it was too tall. Anything I put on top of it would have smudged on the lid. I got pissed off and dumped it, and went back to all lettuce :mad:

Guess I'll try again at Dillard.

Diva Q
06-29-2009, 08:57 PM
I heard a lot of comments from judges (at least 4) from the Boston Hills BBQ fest complaining that the parsley was sticking to everything and that they could not figure out why people would make such boxes with such short pieces of parsley.

Well the boxes we received were 6.5" x 7" at the base. They had an angled side that went up to 9" and the lid was 1/2"less in height than any other box I have ever done in KCBS.

I think part of the problem this past weekend was the lid height. IF you had anything with any height you had to make the parsley bed really low.
So I would assume that a lot more parsley was sticking this past weekend.

I know for a few of the entries I wish I had purchased more lettuce.

Big George's BBQ
06-29-2009, 09:05 PM
I hate parsley. No greens would be good to me

Dustaway
06-29-2009, 09:17 PM
I love the texas lettuce



Tin Foil

musicmanryann
06-29-2009, 09:25 PM
I spent an hour this past weekend building my first ever all parsley bed. Got it almost done when QN stopped by to say hi. I asked his opinion of it and he pointed out what I hadn't noticed - it was too tall. Anything I put on top of it would have smudged on the lid. I got pissed off and dumped it, and went back to all lettuce :mad:

Guess I'll try again at Dillard.

But the judges are explicitly instructed to not judge down for sauce on the top of the box...

Rub
06-29-2009, 09:27 PM
True, but what is on top of the box is no longer on the meat, probably leaving a smudged appearance. Probably kiss that beautiful glaze goodbye.

Diva
06-29-2009, 09:30 PM
But the judges are explicitly instructed to not judge down for sauce on the top of the box...

When/where are they instructed to not judge down? The judges meeting? Judging class??

musicmanryann
06-29-2009, 09:40 PM
When/where are they instructed to not judge down? The judges meeting? Judging class??

I have not had the opportunity to judge yet, so I do not know what they say at the meeting, but Mike Lake did say that during the CBJ class I took earlier this year. Maybe some experienced judges can chime in about what they say during the judges meeting.

KC_Bobby
06-29-2009, 10:52 PM
I think I've heard not to judge down for smudges on the lid - at least once judging.

I disagree.. The way I read his post was that he was being honest and at the same time pointing out a reminder and clear;y noted he was not marking down conciously because of the parsley..

And your only getting the "privledge" of sampling some great BBQ each time judging.. no guarantees anything will be good.

I don't disagree with no guarantee, however I'm yet to judge an event where some of the entries have not been anything less then spectacular. Although around KC, it's hard not to judge a comp without a handful of primer teams. :razz: All kidding aside, I do think it's a privilege to judge - no one is making anyone taste test some food with an opportunity to take a cooler full home for later.

The intent of my comment was simply questioning if he was serious or kidding. Each competitor puts in a lot of hours to try to present the best BBQ they know how.

lunchlady
06-29-2009, 11:24 PM
YAY! maybe my 'waiting for the end of this trend' is getting shorter....
I sure hope so!

CivilWarBBQ
06-30-2009, 12:08 AM
When/where are they instructed to not judge down? The judges meeting? Judging class??

When I serve as Table Captain, I always remind judges of this before I present the boxes for each category.

A smudged lid can be caused by handling after the cook releases a box at the turn-in table, so it isn't fair to judge down for something the cook may have had no control over.

thillin
06-30-2009, 12:37 PM
I love the texas lettuce


Tin Foil

Yep, and the comp provides it!:biggrin:

Dr_KY
06-30-2009, 01:09 PM
I love parsley.

Countryhb
06-30-2009, 01:11 PM
I love parsley.
Ditto! I love doing putting greens. I think they look beautiful and present well.

Dr_KY
06-30-2009, 01:25 PM
I have a special box set aside with the tools I use when making boxes. :cool:

Divemaster
06-30-2009, 01:55 PM
I have a special box set aside with the tools I use when making boxes. :cool:
Same here... We nick-named it the 'Finshing Box'... Has all I need to build and fill boxes...

Spydermike72
06-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Is this a serious post ?? Picking some parsley off is not that big of a deal....

YankeeBBQ
06-30-2009, 02:26 PM
YAY! maybe my 'waiting for the end of this trend' is getting shorter....
I sure hope so!

Why ? Nobody said you had to do parsley. I bet the top 4 teams in boston hills all did parsley this weekend so I'm pretty sure your going to have to deal with it for a long time to come.

Tinybud
06-30-2009, 02:32 PM
I compete as well as judge on occasion, so knowing what it takes to put together a nice parsley bed, I certainly have no complaints about picking parsley off a sample. I did get a comment card from a judge at Roc City about a smudge on the underside of the lid, althou the judge didn't mark us down, like most teams we close our box and reopen to make sure nothing is touching, so the kind of thing most often happens after the runner hands the box over. there's alot worse things in life than picking some parsley off a sample before judging it. Its gonna happen as long as kcbs allows garnish.

KC_Bobby
06-30-2009, 03:04 PM
I compete as well as judge on occasion, so knowing what it takes to put together a nice parsley bed, I certainly have no complaints about picking parsley off a sample.


Thanks, Tiny does a better job of saying what I was attempting to communicate. As long as quality teams are doing parsley beds, most of us that are trying to catch up feel we must do the same.

kcpellethead
06-30-2009, 03:45 PM
Boy, I would hate to think that I might get scored down because of some parsley coming off with the meat. Sounds likes its time we get rid of greens all together.

Instead, let's just get rid of the judges that are judging incorrectly. Judge the meat, not the greens. And if you want to imply that you may have subconsciously marked someone down for using a parsley bed, I'd say that's grounds for an organizer to subconsciouly leave your name off of the the judging list next time. It won't be anything intentional mind you . . . .

DocStl
06-30-2009, 05:00 PM
I disagree.. The way I read his post was that he was being honest and at the same time pointing out a reminder and clear;y noted he was not marking down conciously because of the parsley..

And your only getting the "privledge" of sampling some great BBQ each time judging.. no guarantees anything will be good.

Even if not consciencely marking down for the picking of parsley, but may be sub-consciencely. Ever go to a restuarant, had to wait forever for a table, or were in a bad mood from something? You do not enjoy eating something as much after something just irritated the crap out of you.

Smoke'n Ice
06-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Psychologically, everyone eats with their eyes first and no amout of training will change that. Our task as cooks, is to realize that and endeavor to persevere. Which means accept it and make it pretty.
Mack
CBJ#5618

BRBBQ
06-30-2009, 10:35 PM
Boy, I would hate to think that I might get scored down because of some parsley coming off with the meat. Sounds likes its time we get rid of greens all together.
I agree, first I'd hate to see score's drop and second, I wish they'd get rid of greens.

BRBBQ
06-30-2009, 10:40 PM
I disagree.. The way I read his post was that he was being honest and at the same time pointing out a reminder and clear;y noted he was not marking down conciously because of the parsley..

And your only getting the "privledge" of sampling some great BBQ each time judging.. no guarantees anything will be good.
I agree on sampling some great Q, but disagree it's all great, 99% is great. I've had the 1% that isn't. As you say no guarantees:!:

BRBBQ
06-30-2009, 10:42 PM
Boy, I would hate to think that I might get scored down because of some parsley coming off with the meat. Sounds likes its time we get rid of greens all together.
You won't if I'm judging:-P

BRBBQ
06-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Only MEAT in the box!!!!
I've seen this once and man it sticks out like a sore thumb, I had to collect my thoughts and judge like the rule says, meat contest not garnish. I wish it was only meat, garnish is a waste of food.

J Appledog
07-01-2009, 09:04 PM
garnish is a waste of food.

Amen

tonto1117
07-02-2009, 04:59 AM
Amen

I highly suggest you stand by your convictions......waste no food......use no garnish :tongue:

J Appledog
07-02-2009, 09:19 AM
T, that reminds me, I'd better order some parsley for next weekend.

goodbuddiesbbq
06-10-2010, 07:18 AM
I have an idea! They need to have a sanctioned box (1 or 2 companies...sams became a sponsor) that can be picked up prior to the comp, if the cook team wanted. Then like meat prep, sauces, rubs, etc all prep can be done throughout the week. It would be optional, the KCBS rep would measure the box and put the sticker on top and you're done.

If you don't do prep at the house, no big deal it's optional, they'll give you boxes at the event. I am an FBA team (whiskey bent bbq) moonlighting as a KCBS team and would love to have 3 hours to slow down Chad's drinking and criticize Rub's parsley height.

I love the look, but hate the work. Whomever develops this "sanctioned" box can just give me a few points on the back for royalties or I will sue you!

Funtimebbq
06-10-2010, 09:04 AM
Hi All,

I think the rule for judging has some language stating "as presented". How bad would it be if judges were instructed to sample the meat as it was taken from the box. By that I mean, if there is parsley sticking to the meat, the judge should eat it along with the meat. Do you think there would be less sticky sauce as a result? I do. Or, there would be more lettuce than parsley. I'm just saying, if cooks present their meat in a certain manner and judges taste the meat "as presented", then judges should eat the parsley that sticks to the meat and score it accordingly for taste.

I understand this is not popular but only presented for cooks to think about when using their sticky sauces with parsley.

Benny

jpats
06-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Lets go for a meat-only box. The latest 4-5 contests that I have observed have contestants not even washing the greens before making up the box. The chances of making a judge sick are real. I don't volunteer for juding anymore as a result. Bottom line is that i would like to win a category based on my cooking skill instead of my gardening, artsy-fartsy skills. Just my 2 conts

Alexa RnQ
06-10-2010, 01:17 PM
I understand this is not popular but only presented for cooks to think about when using their sticky sauces with parsley.

Benny
...don't you currently cook with someone who uses sticky sauces with parsley? http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif


And yes, teams should feel free to make meat-only boxes. Last year, 155 South did quite well with no-garnish boxes.

pahutchens
06-10-2010, 02:57 PM
I spent an hour this past weekend building my first ever all parsley bed. Got it almost done when QN stopped by to say hi. I asked his opinion of it and he pointed out what I hadn't noticed - it was too tall. Anything I put on top of it would have smudged on the lid. I got pissed off and dumped it, and went back to all lettuce :mad:
Guess I'll try again at Dillard.

I judged one entry where the garnish bed had pushed the meat tight into the lid, enough that some of the pieces were reshaped.

Funtimebbq
06-10-2010, 03:31 PM
...don't you currently cook with someone who uses sticky sauces with parsley? http://www.divaherself.com/funny/shiner.gif


And yes, teams should feel free to make meat-only boxes. Last year, 155 South did quite well with no-garnish boxes.


Yes, I do. And I'm not suggesting doing away with either, only that the meat with parsley stuck to it should be judged accordingly. I'm sure, if that happened, many cooks would start using less parsley or sticky sauce, including my head cook.

Benny

The Pickled Pig
06-10-2010, 04:41 PM
I have an idea! They need to have a sanctioned box (1 or 2 companies...sams became a sponsor) that can be picked up prior to the comp, if the cook team wanted. Then like meat prep, sauces, rubs, etc all prep can be done throughout the week. It would be optional, the KCBS rep would measure the box and put the sticker on top and you're done.

If you don't do prep at the house, no big deal it's optional, they'll give you boxes at the event. I am an FBA team (whiskey bent bbq) moonlighting as a KCBS team and would love to have 3 hours to slow down Chad's drinking and criticize Rub's parsley height.

I love the look, but hate the work. Whomever develops this "sanctioned" box can just give me a few points on the back for royalties or I will sue you!

We've been making our boxes at home before the comp for the last year. Pick up a pack of clamshells from Sams, put a piece of parchment paper down in the box, create your parsley bed, cover with a wet paper towel, add a stabilizer for travel, and transfer the greens to the correct box when at the contest, and carefully slide out the parchment paper. It sounds more complicated than it is and only takes about 60 seconds per box to transfer.

goodbuddiesbbq
06-10-2010, 04:54 PM
We've been making our boxes at home before the comp for the last year. Pick up a pack of clamshells from Sams, put a piece of parchment paper down in the box, create your parsley bed, cover with a wet paper towel, add a stabilizer for travel, and transfer the greens to the correct box when at the contest, and carefully slide out the parchment paper. It sounds more complicated than it is and only takes about 60 seconds per box to transfer.

I thought I read that before on your site. I couldn't find it, but while my son is watching nemo and cars...I'm gonna build the boxes. Very smart!!!

Quit complaining Rub...nobody likes cooks with 50 GC's that can't build a parsley box. If my memory serves me correctly that was taught at your class. I believe I was the sucker that you talked into building the box???

You can't trust those FBA cooks...except for Whiskey Bent BBQ.

PimpSmoke
06-10-2010, 05:22 PM
What I have found to be difficult is to keep the bed low, while keeping the parsley stems long enough to pack well. I gotta tell you, I cringe when my wife goes up for turn in and I see those boxes stacked. I seriously will be paranoid more in the future about having enough headspace so that stuff doesn't get smooshed by the top.

LindaM
06-10-2010, 06:57 PM
What I have found to be difficult is to keep the bed low, while keeping the parsley stems long enough to pack well. I gotta tell you, I cringe when my wife goes up for turn in and I see those boxes stacked. I seriously will be paranoid more in the future about having enough headspace so that stuff doesn't get smooshed by the top.

Boxes should never be stacked at a competition. I seriously hope that if you see this done you report it..... One thing a rep is tought from the beginning.

PimpSmoke
06-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Boxes should never be stacked at a competition. I seriously hope that if you see this done you report it..... One thing a rep is tought from the beginning.

Was not aware. I will say something from now on. According to my wife, who witnessed this and actually questioned it, there were no reps anywhere near the turn-in table.

pop's smokin hot que
06-11-2010, 05:08 PM
This post is so funny LOL:crazy: I am driving 200 miles tomorrow to judge. Remember this is at my expense. I do this because I want to help you guys. I don't give a rip about parsley though I have picked my share off of sticky chicken. We have water and towels. I personally don't give a rip about smudges on the lid. I have seen boxes turned ever wich way by table caps. Now I love Q. Last event I had the three best ribs I ever ate in my life also had the worst rib ever. Don't sweat the parsley or smudges concentrate on the Q if you want to win. I'm still laughing.

swamprb
06-11-2010, 08:36 PM
I pre-build my boxes for travel like Paul.
It was brought to my attention by a Head Judge that someone felt I was not using the boxes provided and therefore had an unfair advantage. So now to avoid any bitching, I label mine.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_1680.jpg

I'm also a CBJ and know there are some vocal critics around the tables that complain about parsley or garnish in particular and feel some do score down on it (just my opinion). I've judged those entries where I picked up pieces of overly sauced "Chia meats" but picked off the greenery, but can't do anything about the judges that have a problem with it.
PNWBA judges a bit differently than KCBS as we do each entry instead of a placemat with 5 or 6.
So I make a point at the Cooks Meetings to reinforce the parsley issue and our Head Judges are very good about stressing it to the CBJ's.

This will probably come back to bite me in the a$$!

Contracted Cookers
06-11-2010, 08:45 PM
like what the kcbs does with all the events. Is there anyway to have kcbs cooks vote to have garnish or no garnish.

CivilWarBBQ
06-11-2010, 11:42 PM
Boxes should never be stacked at a competition. I seriously hope that if you see this done you report it..... One thing a rep is tought from the beginning.

Are you seriously suggesting Reps be chastised if boxes are stacked?

I see it quite often - it is sometimes unavoidable. Example 1: organizer provides sheet pans instead of bread trays to move boxes from turn-in table. Example 2: bread trays are used, but more than six entries are sent to a table.

In both of these cases, boxes have to be stacked. Obvioiusly all attempts are made to interleave them so the pressure falls on the edges of the boxes rather than the center of the lids, but they are stacked none the less. I don't know what "Reps are taught at the beginning", but I do know what happens in the real world.

It hasn't ever been considered a big deal in my experience.

Brauma
06-12-2010, 07:16 AM
The green color of the garnish really accentuates the meat and makes it look more appetizing. So let's go with green boxes!!

j/k.

I bitch when I have to spend all the time it takes to make the boxes. But it's worth it. I would hate to learn the a judge marked me down because some parsley stuck to the bottom of the meat.

swamprb
06-12-2010, 05:47 PM
Speaking of boxes....

Any locations using the biodegradable Earth Choice clamshell boxes??

Just Smokin' Around
06-12-2010, 09:24 PM
Maybe the judges should taste the entry as presented - with the parsley stuck to the meat if that's what happens when they pull it from the box. Isn't that what they are instructed to do - taste the entry as presented. Why pick it off? Then, when comment cards come back saying they didn't like the taste of parsley on their ribs, then we'll see what happens.