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lunchlady
06-16-2009, 07:10 AM
ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

But what the hell else is so awesome that it gets you 9's instead of 8's?

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance. :confused:

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?

I don't know how to make this a poll...

early mornin' smokin'
06-16-2009, 07:45 AM
a nice putting green just makes the meat look better, if its all even and nice, you dont look at it, you just look at the meat, but im not a judge!!

Balls Casten
06-16-2009, 07:46 AM
For us it was/is a matter of elimination. We were trying to improve our appearance scores. And the parsley box kind of eliminated one of the variables. I don’t believe the parsley boxes necessarily look better but they are certainly more consistent. They do not guarantee you 9’s

We don’t do them all the time. But we have turned in more parsley boxes than lettuce this year.

Sledneck
06-16-2009, 07:49 AM
I do only parsley boxes. I hate doing them but hate the way lettuce looks. http://bbqilluminati.blogspot.com/2009/05/kcbs-garnish.html

Exe-que-tioner
06-16-2009, 08:01 AM
We use both lettuce and parsley. First layer in the box is lettuce to give the meat some support, then tightly-twisted bunches of pasley nested tightly into the lettuce.
When I judge a contest, I find myself totally ignoring the garnish, and focusing totally on the meat itself.
I guess we use parsley because it seems like that is what the majority is doing, and that is how we were taught.

Rub
06-16-2009, 08:23 AM
I'm like you Michelle, I can't bring myself to pay for all that parsley. Up in Tryon NC this past weekend I bought 6 heads of green leaf lettuce and that was it. Out of all my appearance scores I got (12) 9's, (10) 8's, and (2) 7's. Honestly I was pretty disappointed with those scores - there was no reason for there to be anything less than a 9 given. I don't mean that in a boastful way, but I am my own toughest critic and know a kick-a$$ box when I see it. It really has me rethinking my presentation for the next 3 KCBS contests I have this summer. If I can find that KCBS-like program that lets you put in score and gives you a total, I'll run it with all 9's for appearance and see what happens. I have a feeling it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

Dale P
06-16-2009, 08:27 AM
Michelle, to be honest, we cant seem to make up our minds. Our best boxes are made late Friday nights when we are feeling more "artistic" and anything legal could end up in the boxes. :wink:

So my best answer is no, we dont use parsley all the time.

jbiesinger
06-16-2009, 08:45 AM
If I can find that KCBS-like program that lets you put in score and gives you a total, I'll run it with all 9's for appearance and see what happens. I have a feeling it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

if you know your way around excel spreadsheets its relatively easy to do. Here's the formulas I use:

appearance: =cell*0.5714
taste: =cell*2.2858
texture: =cell*1.1428

I can email you a copy of the one I made its handy to track minor improvements in each score for each meat.

We have been only using green lettuce and making what we thought we fine boxes, but are going to try the parsley bed for our next comp.

I wish I knew more about what judges thought about the appearance of the meat. you hear alot that they don't look at the garnish, and they judge the meat on whether it looks like they want to eat it, but that's pretty subjective.

Rub
06-16-2009, 08:54 AM
if you know your way around excel spreadsheets its relatively easy to do. Here's the formulas I use:

appearance: =cell*0.5714
taste: =cell*2.2858
texture: =cell*1.1428

I can email you a copy of the one I made its handy to track minor improvements in each score for each meat.

We have been only using green lettuce and making what we thought we fine boxes, but are going to try the parsley bed for our next comp.

I wish I knew more about what judges thought about the appearance of the meat. you hear alot that they don't look at the garnish, and they judge the meat on whether it looks like they want to eat it, but that's pretty subjective.

Thanks, I just sent the numbers to Sled and he's running them. I found the one I was looking for but my scores came out lower - they must have changed things up a bit since then.

ique
06-16-2009, 08:55 AM
So much for the "it's a meat contest".


This is the reason I like the parsley box. It makes it easy to show off the meat... Mostly acts as a bed and when presentation is complete you barely even see much parsley, just a bit around the edges

musicmanryann
06-16-2009, 09:00 AM
We do all parsley as well. Did lettuce/parsley mix at our first comp and averaged 8.5 in appearance. You can see the pics on our webpage. One of the reasons we went with parsley, however, is that, while more labor intensive, it is a very straightforward way of making a box and getting consistent results. It has not markedly improved our results from that first competition, but at least in my mind I like the product better. We do not go through an entire case a comp (although I am not sure how much parsley is in a case). I think, and I could be wrong as it is my wife who does this, that we use about two bunches per box and each one costs usually between $1-$1.50. Considering what one spends on everything else to turn a box in, I don't think an extra $12 is a big deal. But that is probably just me.:icon_shy

paydabill
06-16-2009, 09:05 AM
It is a ritual with Brian and I. We start working on boxes, and I B##ch the whole time that I hate doing them. We always end with; I hate to lose a point because it did not have parcely.

In my CBJ class Ed even stated, do you to have it, the rules say no. However, it has become almost expected that you do.

ammoore
06-16-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm like you Michelle, I can't bring myself to pay for all that parsley. Up in Tryon NC this past weekend I bought 6 heads of green leaf lettuce and that was it. Out of all my appearance scores I got (12) 9's, (10) 8's, and (2) 7's. Honestly I was pretty disappointed with those scores - there was no reason for there to be anything less than a 9 given. I don't mean that in a boastful way, but I am my own toughest critic and know a kick-a$$ box when I see it. It really has me rethinking my presentation for the next 3 KCBS contests I have this summer. If I can find that KCBS-like program that lets you put in score and gives you a total, I'll run it with all 9's for appearance and see what happens. I have a feeling it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.


Rub I understand your frustration, but (12) 9's is nothing to get wrapped around the axle about. That's pretty darn awesome. If my math is correct, moving those (10) 8's to 9's will only net you 10*.5714 or 5.7 points. If you lost GC by < 6 pts then I understand focusing on the appearance. Personally, I've been trying to focus on getting my taste scores from 8's to 9's....now that is where the points can be found.

Basically, if you run the numbers...if you can get 9's in taste and tenderness, then you can get 5's in appearance and still score around 168 for the entry. After all, it is still a meat contest.....(sort of)

Westexbbq
06-16-2009, 09:22 AM
Garnish, whether parsley or lettuce is anathema to me when I compete.

But when I judge, I honestly strive very hard to focus on the meats as per the KCBS criteria.

Granted, it all makes for or is supposed to enhance and help the appearance, but I don't think I would ever judge down or up based on garnish alone on round one.

Sledneck
06-16-2009, 09:25 AM
I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.


I typically split a case bewtween 2-3 teams and even with a 1/3 of a case it more than enough to do 4 boxes and is very economical. I think a case from restaurant depot is about $20 so split 3 ways is cheaper than 6 heads of lettuce

pigmaker23
06-16-2009, 09:29 AM
its ok, keep doing the lettuce until after Harpoon ! LOL Its a lot of work, Ask Grace or Angela, but it is worth it for making the meat jump off the box at you

Bbq Bubba
06-16-2009, 09:31 AM
We've had fairly good results using a nice bed of dollar bills! :)

The Anchorman
06-16-2009, 09:39 AM
I do think it looks better, I like it for the chicken presentation.

I don't think that you need a whole case of parsley though, just go to a good produce store and pick through the bunches yourself. I think it holds up better than lettuce also and can be refreshed alot easier than a wilted head of lettuce that the heat got to by mistake.

Sledneck
06-16-2009, 09:40 AM
People eat with their eyes. Even if the appearance score doesn't add up to much the way it calculated with regard to the overall. To me the meat just"pops" better on a bed of parsley. I do truly believe the same exact meat entry(one on parsley, on on lettuce) would "pop" more on a parsley bed. That being said a judge might score it up better with regard to taste just by thinking it is better by the way it looks

musicmanryann
06-16-2009, 09:43 AM
People eat with their eyes. Even if the appearance score doesn't add up to much the way it calculated with regard to the overall. To me the meat just"pops" better on a bed of parsley. I do truly believe the same exact meat entry(one on parsley, on on lettuce) would "pop" more on a parsley bed. That being said a judge might score it up better with regard to taste just by thinking it is better by the way it looks

That's precisely my theory as well. Psychology 101 right there...

Finney
06-16-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm like you Michelle, I can't bring myself to pay for all that parsley. Up in Tryon NC this past weekend I bought 6 heads of green leaf lettuce and that was it. Out of all my appearance scores I got (12) 9's, (10) 8's, and (2) 7's. Honestly I was pretty disappointed with those scores - there was no reason for there to be anything less than a 9 given. I don't mean that in a boastful way, but I am my own toughest critic and know a kick-a$$ box when I see it. It really has me rethinking my presentation for the next 3 KCBS contests I have this summer. If I can find that KCBS-like program that lets you put in score and gives you a total, I'll run it with all 9's for appearance and see what happens. I have a feeling it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

Dang Rub, come off you wallet for some parsley. I'm sure you've won enough this year to cover it. LOL

stlgreg
06-16-2009, 09:59 AM
I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

When I see the putting greens, I have come to know that person really took their time with things and I stand a good chance of getting something pretty good. The range of people that turn in putting greens to turning in really good food is pretty high.

When I see lettuce I am just not as excited. I have come to see over time the range of quality of food from people that turn in lettuce is MUCH greater than it is with putting greens.

It is a pavlov's dog type of thing. After judging so many contests I have come to see parsely makes my mouth drool.

Lettuce just doesnt ring my bell.

I am NOT saying I give nothing but high scores to putting greens NOR am i saying you put lettuce in there and I am not giving it a 9. What I am saying is part of the appearance scores I give out are for how much I want to eat what is there. Since I am more inclined to want to eat something on putting greens it has to help a little.

BBQ_Mayor
06-16-2009, 10:10 AM
Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance. :confused:

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?


I've done them both ways. I prefer the parsley boxes for presentation but the lettuce boxes are way easier to do.

Rules state that garnish is optional so try not using it sometime and see what scores you get. :eek:

Again, this is probably for another post but, I wish they would just get rid of any garnish.

G$
06-16-2009, 10:16 AM
I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

When I see the putting greens, I have come to know that person really took their time with things and I stand a good chance of getting something pretty good. The range of people that turn in putting greens to turning in really good food is pretty high.

When I see lettuce I am just not as excited. I have come to see over time the range of quality of food from people that turn in lettuce is MUCH greater than it is with putting greens.

It is a pavlov's dog type of thing. After judging so many contests I have come to see parsely makes my mouth drool.

Lettuce just doesnt ring my bell.

I am NOT saying I give nothing but high scores to putting greens NOR am i saying you put lettuce in there and I am not giving it a 9. What I am saying is part of the appearance scores I give out are for how much I want to eat what is there. Since I am more inclined to want to eat something on putting greens it has to help a little.

This is illuminating. (Bolding mine, obviously)

Skip
06-16-2009, 10:30 AM
We had a pattern we followed. The chicken box always got a putting green and the others would get a combination of the two. Recently we have decided to switch that after comparing box scores. Although we still use some lettuce as a base that just peeks out the sides our main focus is the parsley. It just gives you that uniformity in the box. Lettuce, by its shape, can look clunky in the box no matter how you place it. IMO

As a judge as well I will have to say that it is still a meat contest. Most I speak to do judge on the merits of the meat but its subjective. A parsley box makes the food appear to jump out at you when the box is opened. If its on a bed of lettuce it appears to be sinking into the box. As ridiculous as that sounds it's what I see. So I am not judging the garnish for score but I am judging the meat partially on how the garish helps presents it. Has anyone actually seen a no garnish box that they would give more then a 7 to? Every light to no garish box I see never gets the meat to present well. It always appears to be dumped in the box.

Countryhb
06-16-2009, 10:33 AM
A CASE of parsley for 4 boxes??? Have you attempted putting greens? I can do a box on a bunch to a bunch-and-a-half.

Divemaster
06-16-2009, 10:54 AM
We do the parsley thing all the time, but I have NEVER gone through a whole case... The most I pick up is 6-bunches and we normally have 1-2 bunches left over...

early mornin' smokin'
06-16-2009, 11:11 AM
I was gonna say, a whole case, thats nuts, chopped iceberg lettuce in the bottom for the base, and than go to work on the putting green

Rub
06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

I appreciate your honesty and that helps me make up my mind to switch.

Finney, I hadn't changed over for a couple of reasons. One was cost, 2 was time as I am usually cooking solo, and 3 because in a perfect world it shouldn't matter. But as we see, it does.

BTW, when Sled ran the numbers (thanks!) giving me 9's for appearance, it moved me up to RGC.

GC was 670.8568

RGC was 661.7138

My original score was 657.7140, revised is 666.2854, which is well over the current RGC score. Know that I am not complaining about the outcome, but just realizing that I do need to make a change. Time to learn putting greens!

ammoore, I know what you're saying. Trust me :wink:. In this case it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

stlgreg
06-16-2009, 11:24 AM
What I mean by "as a judge when i usually see the garnish first." is when the box is first opened I am looking at the box the first thing I can physically see is the garnish.

PatioDaddio
06-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Garnish is the lingerie of a turn-in box. You see it first, it makes things look nice and then you move on. :-D

John

swamprb
06-16-2009, 11:32 AM
Garnish is optional with the Pacific Northwest BBQ Assn. (PNWBA) The last comp I judged in April, I saw 2 parsley boxes. 29 Teams and I talked to a few fellow cooks judging and they only saw a couple.
I score well on Appearance with parsley beds, I may go through a case looking for thick bushy sprigs of it, but only use at the most 2 bunches per box. I had never been happy with my lettuce boxes, but do like the way my meats are framed on the putting green.

RobKC
06-16-2009, 12:05 PM
Rub, Chris does an excellent job on our boxes. He's so good, I think I'll let him do them the rest of the year.:twisted:

We use less than 2 bunches of parsley per box at 79 per bunch. Chopped/sliced iceberg in the bottom.

Bentley
06-16-2009, 03:32 PM
ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

It can, if its done correctly!

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance. :confused:

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

It's never been a contest about meat, its about sauce and rubs. If it was a meat contest you would just cook the meat.


So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?


In the last 3 contests I have judged... A lot more!




As always, thats for letting me rant!

CivilWarBBQ
06-16-2009, 03:53 PM
This is illuminating. (Bolding mine, obviously)

This comes back to something we've touched on before - how we as cooks are actually training judges through creating expectations as to what "winning bbq" is.

Think of it this way: Make two batches of cookie dough, but add an extra cup of salt to one batch. Then present the normal cookie on a white napkin to a group of kids and the salted cookie on a red napkin. Repeat this process a dozen times over a couple months.

At the end of the experiment, switch the napkins and present both to the kids, asking them which they would rather have. You can bet the majority will choose the cookie on the white napkin before they sample it. One of the most challenging things about being a BBQ judge is getting past this conditioning. As a judge I have tasted some really great entries that I scored quite low on appearance and vice versa. We have to keep asking ourselves if we are truly basing our scores on the entry in front of us or the expectations we brought to the table with us.

crd26a
06-16-2009, 03:53 PM
It gives me something to do while RobKC is jerkin his chicken

CajunSmoker
06-16-2009, 05:15 PM
ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

But what the hell else is so awesome that it gets you 9's instead of 8's?

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance. :confused:

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?

I don't know how to make this a poll...

We use all parsley. I tried putting lettuce under the parsley to help support it, but Kim (Smoke on Wheels) showed me the proper way to make an all parsley box. Now it's all parsley. We don't use a case to do it though. Typically we buy 12 bunches to make 4 boxes. We only buy more than 12 if it doesn't look really fresh.

Jeff Hughes
06-16-2009, 05:23 PM
I buy parsley for about 20 bucks a case. 60 bunches, split the case 5 ways, 4 bucks/person, and you will have some left over to share with a neighbor...

smoke-n-my-i's
06-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Here is the 2009 rules for garnish:
12) Garnish is optional. If used, it is limited to chopped,
sliced, shredded or whole leaves of fresh green lettuce,
curly parsley, flat leaf parsley and/or cilantro. Kale, endive,
red tipped lettuce, lettuce cores and other vegetation are
prohibited. Improper garnish shall receive a score of one (1)
on Appearance.

We have all read it, we have all struggled with it, we have all had questions about it, we have all had doubts about it.

I have used lettuce, parsley, and mixed....

At a recent comp, we were told by the rep, that to make sure we had our parsley beds looking top notch in order to get the best score in appearance. :eek: But wait, doesn't it say in the rules that garnish is optional? So why the plug for a great looking parsley bed in the box? Why is the rep pushing it?

Do we need to rethink and read between the lines of what optional means? I agree, parsley does make the box look better, but when it means optional, that means IMHO, that if I leave the greens out completely, does that mean I will get a 1 for a score? I would hope not. If the meat looks better than yours, and yours is on a perfectly manicured green box, and mine has no greenery, what do you think would happen? I will bet that your score would be higher than mine. They say that is doesn't matter, but IMHO, it does.... so, what if we all ban together and forget the greenery and stop all the bickering abt the greens and take the worry out of "what would my score be if..." besides, it is a meat competition, not a make my box look like a putting green... let's do like FBA does, NO GREEN stuff at all.

I will go back to my corner now....

Smokin' Joe
06-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Parsley for us, 8 bunches (for 4 boxes) with chopped lettuce under...I would like to hear more about this all parsley method if anyone in willing to share!

daedalus
06-16-2009, 06:26 PM
I must admit that I have never given a very high score to a box without garnish. That is because I have never seen a box without garnish that does not look like the meat was just tossed in any old way.

From a functional point of view, I think that garnish is useful because it is able to help hold the meat in place. That allows a team to arrange it in a pleasing fashion, and have half a chance that it will stay that way. To me, the putting green garnish is even better for this purpose because the meat can "nestle" into the parsley. Another thing that the garnish can do is to prevent grease/sauce from visibly pooling in the box. There is nothing appetizing about a box full of ribs flopping about aimlessly in little pools of grease.

That brings me to the other aspect of judging appearance. The score I give to appearance simply boils down to how badly I want to dive into the box and devour whatever is inside. Typically, the more care it looks like someone took to create a great looking box, the more enticing the food is. As we all know, we eat with our eyes before we ever eat with our mouths.

As far as the parsley vs. lettuce vs. mix discussion goes, I would say that the all parsley box tends to look neater and cleaner, and can thereby make the meat look more appealing. Having said that, the putting green is probably just the current trend and will likely fall out of vogue at some point in favor of some other type of garnish.

BBQ_Mayor
06-16-2009, 07:27 PM
" besides, it is a meat competition, not a make my box look like a putting green... let's do like FBA does, NO GREEN stuff at all.


I'm with ya brother.

Sledneck
06-16-2009, 08:38 PM
My original score was 657.7140, revised is 666.2854, which is well over the current RGC score. Know that I am not complaining about the outcome, but just realizing that I do need to make a change. Time to learn putting greens!

.
Just ask Cracker to show you, I taught him how to do them when he was up here in New Yawk last October:biggrin:

Rub
06-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Just ask Cracker to show you, I taught him how to do them when he was up here in New Yawk last October:biggrin:

That's a good idea, I'll be seeing him this weekend at the FBA contest 8)

SmokeInDaEye
06-16-2009, 10:25 PM
ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

But what the hell else is so awesome that it gets you 9's instead of 8's?

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance. :confused:

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?

I don't know how to make this a poll...

I tried real hard to shift to parsley my last contest after decent success for 2 years using lettuce. Half way through the boxes and we went back to lettuce. I'm content holding my own with lettuce as a base and letting the meat decide 'cause parsley sucks.

Smoke'n Ice
06-17-2009, 05:05 PM
for the first 4 contest this year we use lettuce with parsley add in and our scores in appearance from all judges was an average of 7.92. We switched to all parsley and our scores in appearance in the next four contests from all juges was an average of 8.12. We will continue to use parsley for the rest of the year.

At our last contest, we went to Wally World and bought 6 heads of parsley for .50 each and had 1 and 1/2 left over to give away.Not too bad considering the cost of green leaf.

Mack

ihbobry
06-18-2009, 02:49 PM
We do both dependant upon the turn in as for some we need a little more box depth. No harm noted when we do not use it and some help noted for the catagories we do use it in due to it pops the entry out a bit and the entry is not hidden down in the box.

smknwhlswife
06-18-2009, 05:19 PM
We like the way our parsley boxes look vs. our lettuce boxes. At some contests we will buy a case or 2 and split them with other cooks. We will usually split a case 5 ways.

lunchlady
06-19-2009, 06:19 AM
just to clarify, I don't care about the cost of parsley...
but I have seen more than a few teams use an entire case.

RUB... tell me it aint so! here i was using you as an example to further my own cause... not really :>

I know these things go round and round... so I'm gonna try to wait it out... same as Blue's Hog... same as candy ribs... we can only wait and see what happens...

ique
06-08-2010, 02:45 PM
I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

Look what I found!

Scottie
06-08-2010, 03:05 PM
Look what I found!


If'n you can't beat 'em... Join 'em....

Jorge
06-08-2010, 03:07 PM
If'n you can't beat 'em... Join 'em....

But I fear Sully will be dispatched on a late night reprisal raid now!:shocked:

The Giggler
06-08-2010, 03:38 PM
look what i found!

busted! :-p

SmokeInDaEye
06-08-2010, 04:02 PM
I have never used parsley and most likely never will. I am able to make a box look good enough with lettuce and don't have the time or patience to play around with parsley.

Willie's BBQ
06-08-2010, 04:08 PM
[QUOTE=smoke-n-my-i's;951929]... let's do like FBA does, NO GREEN stuff at all.


to me, this seems like the best option... but then again what would we do will all the free time??? drink more beer ???:tape:

Scottie
06-08-2010, 04:45 PM
[QUOTE=smoke-n-my-i's;951929]... let's do like FBA does, NO GREEN stuff at all.


to me, this seems like the best option... but then again what would we do will all the free time??? drink more beer ???:tape:


Having cooked a couple IBCA contests and having cooked a no garnish KCBS rules contest last weekend. I am even a bigger fan of greens. There is no way that a box with no garnish looks better than one with garnish. You don't get sauce on the sides, you don't get pieces moving around. The slope of the sides of the clam shell also play a part in the box, with it looking messy and not uniform.

I'll stick with greens.

The Giggler
06-08-2010, 05:00 PM
I have to agree. Greens do create a box that makes the meat stand out. Parsley is nice, and so is lettuce if done right. Bottom line is that the meat should be able to stand on its own, the garnish is there to compliment the overall appearance of the box.

In your defense, Michelle, parsley is a pain in the ass. Having done a few boxes at recent contests, its time consuming, but there's no arguing that is looks very nice. The only thing I don't like about it, is the "bed" takes up a great deal of space in the bottom of the box. Especially for Chicken and Ribs.

Buster Dog BBQ
06-08-2010, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE=Willie's BBQ;1305123]


Having cooked a couple IBCA contests and having cooked a no garnish KCBS rules contest last weekend. I am even a bigger fan of greens. There is no way that a box with no garnish looks better than one with garnish. You don't get sauce on the sides, you don't get pieces moving around. The slope of the sides of the clam shell also play a part in the box, with it looking messy and not uniform.

I'll stick with greens.
I think until someone actually does a box without garnish it is easy for them to say how much they hate it, etc, but once they do without they miss it. Of course, I am talking about KCBS cooks who are used to using garnish.

Pickin' Porkers
06-08-2010, 07:00 PM
After reading all posts....I just have to say:

1. Anyone judging the garnish and not the meat should quit judging....throw your badge in the trash and never judge again. And please...really quit judging.

2. The same holds true for those idiot judges that send comment cards (like we had in Lincolnton, NC this past weekend) that says....."Great barbecue but you had sauce on the outside of the box." Gave us a 6 9 9 . When did that start being an issue and we are confident no sauce was on the outside when taken to turn-in....we're not newbies.

3. Believe this or not....we switched to lettuce boxes this year and our box scores have GONE UP.....YES...gone up....judges get tired of the same 'ol same 'ol.....

Want higher scores?...work on taste.

That's my two cents......

Willie's BBQ
06-08-2010, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=Scottie;1305160


Having cooked a couple IBCA contests and having cooked a no garnish KCBS rules contest last weekend. I am even a bigger fan of greens. There is no way that a box with no garnish looks better than one with garnish. You don't get sauce on the sides, you don't get pieces moving around. The slope of the sides of the clam shell also play a part in the box, with it looking messy and not uniform.

I'll stick with greens.[/QUOTE]
then why do we spend so many hours perfecting our meat if garnish is OPTIONAL????? its obvious that garnish isn't optional and it does have alot to do with apperance

Muzzlebrake
06-08-2010, 08:42 PM
I have never used parsley and most likely never will. I am able to make a box look good enough with lettuce and don't have the time or patience to play around with parsley.

I heard Michelle same the same thing, more than once.............never say never!

BigBrad
06-08-2010, 08:49 PM
I did a comp last weekend and used only lettuce and placed 8th in chicken out of 39 teams. It took us about 10 minnutes to make four boxes. Meanwhile the team next to us took two hours to make her boxes with parsley. I don't have the time or the patience to do parsley boxes.

SaucyWench
06-08-2010, 09:55 PM
One of the very best chicken entries I've seen in 9 years of judging had no garnish whatsoever, just plain ole snatch-it-up-and-eat-it-right-now meat! I gave it a 9 in appearance, and happily (for me & the cooks) it's taste lived up to its look. The rest of my table that day agreed that if the meat looks that great, a plain white box won't deter. IMHO, the putting greens are way over-rated, by judges & cooks alike.

JD McGee
06-08-2010, 10:12 PM
Here is LHS's thoughts on the subject...this is one other thing that is within our control...if we can get that 1 extra point with parsley...that's what we'll do! :becky:

Jeff_in_KC
06-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Y'all are trying to micromanage, same as the damned Board! It's optional... use it or not. Your choice. I'd be shocked if any CBJ would tell me they judge up if the greens look nice BUT it's human nature to see the garnish as an appearance enhancer if it looks nice. So again... use it or don't use it. Your choice.

U2CANQUE
06-09-2010, 10:59 AM
I actually like doing the putting greens....if I am cooking by myself I will just usually get the Big Lebowski on the tv in the trailer, sit back, relax and just watch the movie....I also take a picture of the greens and go back to look at the pictures 5 minutes after I have put them away....just to see what my first impression of the greens are.....
Does it gurantee anything, no, would I prefer something else, sure....but, with trying to keep the glass half full I just use it as a time to relax.....and if all else fails, I just pay Kim and Andy's girls to do them for me....:icon_blush:

CBQ
06-09-2010, 11:35 AM
Look what I found!


Looks like Chris is more of a troublemaker than I am. :-P

Please let Sully know that we expect the Damn Dip to be served with parsley garnish from now on!

In Cape Cod, some of our parsley was damaged, so we stuck some lettuce in the middle and "hid" it with meat. Worked out OK, but we generally avoid lettuce. The box just looks so much neater with parsley.

I am tempted to make an actual putting green for an open garnish event with a cup, pin, and tiny flag. Not sure if the judges will share my weird sense of humor. :-D

U2CANQUE
06-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Gave us a 6 9 9
Hey, what can I say, I finally got to beat you in Pork.....:becky:.....marking that day down in history....because I can agree with the 9 and 9, because every time that I have had some of yours it is by far a bar that I hope to some day match,......phenomenal!

I felt bad for those teams that got the comment card from that judge, and come to find out, they must have been on a box rampage....one box was reported to have a "crease" in the top of the box....was disappointed that the reps did not reel that one in sooner....like, oh, I dont know, at chicken! table captain, where were ya?.......:crazy:

Smoke'n Ice
06-09-2010, 07:12 PM
Parsley beds are a simple and great way to help your meat stand out in the box. Youd be amazed at what difference parsley make when framing the meat. Parsley beds are quite simple, really. There are seven or more things that Parsley beds do for your meat display.
They are:
Help in framing odd sizes of meat in different sizes of turn-in boxes
Minimizes size differences between samples in the chicken category
Offer unique and different ways to show off your creativity
Help your meat stand up and out and highlighting the color. It POPS!
Meat remains where you placed it, from box closure to opening by the table captain
Hide any sauce pooling that occurs during placement, touch up and transport (prevents a DQ)
You can fit almost any configuration of meat into a standard size (no such thing) turn-in box.

The only downside of using parsley is the extra cost and effort. As long as your taste and texture are 8s and 9s then 6s in appearance wont hurt as much. As an example a 6, 9, 9 will give you the same score as an 8, 8, 9.

Pickin' Porkers
06-09-2010, 07:16 PM
What can I say! For us to be a milestone for a team to beat is flatering!!!!:clap2:

luckyduk
06-09-2010, 08:47 PM
All I got say is parsley beds are easy.......when the wife does them all :-D:-D Seems she has WAY more patience than I do.

I do agree the boxes with parsley does pop out more, especially chicken, I also like the way it holds up a brisket box.

Hoss
06-09-2010, 11:37 PM
ONLY if you wanna win!I am a CBJ,KCBS # 55047.NOTHING compares to CURLY LEAF PARSLEY!I will NEVER,NEVER,NEVER use ANYTHING else in a comp.My $.02.

Willie's BBQ
06-10-2010, 06:15 PM
i still say go FBA, and do away with all garnish :cool:

LindaM
06-10-2010, 07:09 PM
We had a pattern we followed. The chicken box always got a putting green and the others would get a combination of the two. Recently we have decided to switch that after comparing box scores. Although we still use some lettuce as a base that just peeks out the sides our main focus is the parsley. It just gives you that uniformity in the box. Lettuce, by its shape, can look clunky in the box no matter how you place it. IMO

As a judge as well I will have to say that it is still a meat contest. Most I speak to do judge on the merits of the meat but its subjective. A parsley box makes the food appear to jump out at you when the box is opened. If its on a bed of lettuce it appears to be sinking into the box. As ridiculous as that sounds it's what I see. So I am not judging the garnish for score but I am judging the meat partially on how the garish helps presents it. Has anyone actually seen a no garnish box that they would give more then a 7 to? Every light to no garish box I see never gets the meat to present well. It always appears to be dumped in the box.

I have seen chicken boxes receive 9's with no garnish, also pork boxes, I can honestly say I have never seen a rib or brisket box with no garnish receive 9's. The boxes must be full enough to cover the white in the bottem to achieve those high scores without the garnish