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Jeff_in_KC
06-11-2009, 11:53 AM
Was told Rod Gray resigned from the KCBS board this morning. That sucks! I know Rod was a good voice for us cookers and he will be missed on the board. I only hope his replacement has all of our interests at heart and listens to cookers like Rod did. Thank you for your service to the BBQ community, Rod.

musicmanryann
06-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Thanks Rod for your service!

stlgreg
06-11-2009, 12:19 PM
He has a notice on his blog
http://pelletenvy.blogspot.com/

Thanks Rod - you will be missed.

Buster Dog BBQ
06-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Thanks Rod.

musicmanryann
06-11-2009, 01:07 PM
For those interested a couple of fellow board members have posted their comments on the situation on the bbq-forum.

BBQ_Mayor
06-11-2009, 01:33 PM
For those interested a couple of fellow board members have posted their comments on the situation on the bbq-forum.

Go to your room for mentioning the other forum.:shock:

But thanks, I'm going there now to check it out. :icon_devil

Divemaster
06-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Rod,

Thank you for all you've done.

lunchlady
06-11-2009, 02:07 PM
whoa... :shock:

thanks Rod... for your years of commitment and everything you've accomplished while on the BoD!

watertowerbbq
06-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Thank you Rod

BBQ_Mayor
06-11-2009, 07:59 PM
We'll miss you being a representative for us on the board.

Spydermike72
06-12-2009, 05:25 AM
Rod was always responsive. He was an assest to the KCBS BOD, his voice on the BOD will be missed.

kcpellethead
06-14-2009, 08:08 PM
Thanks everyone. I enjoyed most of my time on the board. KCBS is an awesome organization and I'm proud to be a member.

bbqbull
06-14-2009, 08:13 PM
Thanks for service Rod.
Enjoy the rest of your life on this planet doing what you enjoy doing now.

Smokin' Joe
06-15-2009, 12:25 PM
Thanks for your service Rod

Very interesting reading here...
http://pelletenvy.blogspot.com/


Sounds like the KCBS board is a lot like the City Council I'm a part of:shock:

musicmanryann
06-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Thanks for your service Rod

Very interesting reading here...
http://pelletenvy.blogspot.com/


Sounds like the KCBS board is a lot like the City Council I'm a part of:shock:

Yeah, I think there is always a little dysfunction in any governmental unit, because there is always some disagreement with how things should be run, how the organization should grow etc. This is also true where I work. However, it is through a healthly discourse and ultimate compromise of our dissonant ideas that a solution comes about that is best for everyone, not just a few. The question is how much dysfunction in that process is too much--to the point that it is hurting everyone in the organization, not just the decision-makers?

Bastey Boy
06-15-2009, 12:38 PM
I'm relatively un-sure that I don't know who he wasn't writing about. :rolleyes:

Smokin' Joe
06-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I think there is always a little dysfunction in any governmental unit, because there is always some disagreement with how things should be run, how the organization should grow etc. This is also true where I work. However, it is through a healthly discourse and ultimate compromise of our dissonant ideas that a solution comes about that is best for everyone, not just a few. The question is how much dysfunction in that process is too much--to the point that it is hurting everyone in the organization, not just the decision-makers?
Very well said...and a very good question

Jeff_in_KC
06-16-2009, 12:28 AM
If you guys haven't seen it, Rod posted on his blog a more specific reason for his resignation today:

http://pelletenvy.blogspot.com/

Very interesting... guess it's pretty obvious who he's talking about. At least it was when a rep told me a few stories that made sense.

jminion
06-16-2009, 02:12 AM
The reason members can go to meetings now is because of person Rod is talking about. The reason you maybe able to call and listen to meetings soon is because of the person Rod is talking about.

Go back and look at who votes against these items.

Here is a motion made by this unreasonable BOD member
a motion for KCBS to adopt a policy which would require that each program, contract or venture of KCBS in the future, be budgeted and be economically sound and calculated to at least break even without economic loss to KCBS. Vote: 3 yes, 8 no 0 abstentions. Motion failed.

Pretty unreasonable way for a BOD member to act???

KCBS has been behaving as a Good Ole Boys network for a long time, that is not an easy culture to change and those that help make that change are not be well liked.

If you consider that you have not been able listen in or attend meetings innuendo becomes very easy. Go back and read old issues of the Bull Sheet, read the Board minutes and see who made motions and how the vote went.

Wonder what issue set Rod off?
You have now heard how Rod reacted to what went on in the meeting but you have no idea why this item was the straw that broke the camel's back. You wonder?

Read the minutes from the past 2 1/2 years and see who is working, what issues are brought forward by whom and how the vote went.

Things might not be as presented.

C-Town Smoker
06-16-2009, 06:36 AM
I will actually be having Rod on tonight to interview him about his side of the story to eliminate at least one side of specualtion. He should be on around 9:30pm EST and you can listen by going to www.latalkradio.com (Channel 1). The BBQ Central Show begins airing live at 9pm EST but that is the time I tentatively have set up for Rod's apperance.

This is not a spam post...just trying to let everyone who is interested in this topic know where you can go to hear a live interview.

If you have a question you would like to ask Rod you can call in (216-220-0966) or you can email bbqcentralradio@gmail.com

Thanks!

Greg

timzcardz
06-16-2009, 07:18 AM
Thanks for your service Rod

Very interesting reading here...
http://pelletenvy.blogspot.com/


Sounds like the KCBS board is a lot like the City Council I'm a part of:shock:

I'm curious. What exactly was interesting?

There are a lot of words, but 90% of it is nothing more than supposition, without actually saying anything.

All it does it make me question "Why all of the 'what ifs'?"

If someone has something to say, they should just come out and say it, rather than hiding behind "what ifs."

Might as well have said "What if I told you that rain drops were made of BBQ sauce?" They're not, but what if?

willkat98
06-16-2009, 07:33 AM
He did come out and say it Tim.

What if the term "what if" was a way to use conjecture to avoid litigation.

I think the point comes across loud and clear, and spontaneous litigation was also addressed in the context

timzcardz
06-16-2009, 08:05 AM
Bill, the point that I was trying to make, is that just because someone puts something on thier blog, couching each statement behind a "what if," then it doesn't necessarily make it the truth.

Drop the "what ifs" and I will pay more attention to what is said. If what is said is the truth, then there really is no liability in it. If it not the truth, then it shouldn't be said.

If anyone wants to make public statements and be taken seriously, then they need to put their word behind it.

Not everything that you read (especially on the internet) is true. So why should readers give credence to statements that are phrased in a manner to readily enable disclaim?

Jeff_in_KC
06-16-2009, 08:37 AM
I have heard it from reps and others who work for KCBS folks. If it was just Rod, I might think there were personality or other issues. From hearing what I hear from several people, I believe Rod. The unreasonable person's act is wearing thin on many people, not just Rod.

Tim, it really doesn't matter if there is actual liability in it, this person is apt to threaten legal action any time he's crossed. Who wants a part of that, regardless of whether allegations are true and liability is slim?

And Jim, one issue that is logical and well-thought out doesn't mean someone isn't a trouble maker and causing dissent on the board.

Bigdog
06-16-2009, 08:55 AM
Thank you Rod for your service to the KCBS and thank you for letting us know why you resigned. When I talked with you about this on Saturday, I knew that there was more to the story but understood why you weren't ready to share. What is amazing to me is that given all this, Rod is not bitter about the organization and still is a strong supporter of it. I applaud you for that. :eusa_clap

jminion
06-16-2009, 09:14 AM
Jeff
"causing dissent on the board"
You think that is a bad thing? You would if business as usual is your goal.
Go back and read Board minutes and you may get an idea how things are..

What if by the actions of the office KCBS has put KCBS in a position to be liable for large amount of money because they didn't follow KCBS rules for sanctioning. What if two members of the Board spoke were contacted parties involved to start the process to try resolve the situation. What if a Board member went off on a F#@$ rant and was removed from the meeting and the next day resigns.

Believe what ever you want, but Ray resigned for a reason, I didn't run for a second term for a reason, in both cases it didn't have anything to do with the Board member that all the innuendo is pointed at.

Jeff_in_KC
06-16-2009, 10:22 AM
Jeff
"causing dissent on the board"
You think that is a bad thing? You would if business as usual is your goal.
Go back and read Board minutes and you may get an idea how things are..

What if by the actions of the office KCBS has put KCBS in a position to be liable for large amount of money because they didn't follow KCBS rules for sanctioning. What if two members of the Board spoke were contacted parties involved to start the process to try resolve the situation. What if a Board member went off on a F#@$ rant and was removed from the meeting and the next day resigns.

Believe what ever you want, but Ray resigned for a reason, I didn't run for a second term for a reason, in both cases it didn't have anything to do with the Board member that all the innuendo is pointed at.

I just fail to see how damned near EVERY time, there is an 8-3 vote on the board that it's the rest of the board's fault when there's a problem. Jim, you give few examples and, as a human resources professional, I am well aware that even the worst employees occasionally do good things. It seems to me it's not what's being done by the person in question but rather HOW that person goes about doing it.

YankeeBBQ
06-16-2009, 10:28 AM
Hey Jim it sounds like you have inside info. Why don't you tell us what you know and who told you ?

What if you have inside info from the board room when w`Jeff
"causing dissent on the board"
You think that is a bad thing? You would if business as usual is your goal.
Go back and read Board minutes and you may get an idea how things are..

What if by the actions of the office KCBS has put KCBS in a position to be liable for large amount of money because they didn't follow KCBS rules for sanctioning. What if two members of the Board spoke were contacted parties involved to start the process to try resolve the situation. What if a Board member went off on a F#@$ rant and was removed from the meeting and the next day resigns.

Believe what ever you want, but Ray resigned for a reason, I didn't run for a second term for a reason, in both cases it didn't have anything to do with the Board member that all the innuendo is pointed at.

Finney
06-16-2009, 10:51 AM
Rod will be interviewed on BBQCentral Radio tonight. Here's the email that Greg sent out today.

"Hi everyone! Sorry for the double newsletter today, but the previous one was written in advance of me also booking Rod Gray of Pellet Envy on the show tonight. I will have the 2 guests on as the previous newsletter stated, but, I have also added Rod Gray to the last segment. If you follow the KCBS, you know that Rod resigned his post on the Board of Directors late last week. There has been a lot of specualtion as to why this happened. Rod agreed to come on tonight to give his side of the story...he has also stated that he will not be naming names specifically to avoid any potential legal issues. His segment will start around 9:30pm EST tonight...but the show itself will start at its regular 9pm EST air time. If you know of anyone who is interested in this please forward this to them! Thanks!! Greg 9pm EST on http://www.latalkradio.com Channel 1 Call-In: 216-220-0966 Email: bbqcentralradio@gmail.com "


on edit:
Sorry, I didn't see Greg's post up above before I posted this. :oops:

motoeric
06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm certainly an outsider being here in the hinterlands of BBQ (NY), and I don't personally know either of the two principals; but I had a lot more respect for Rod when he initially resigned than now.

It seems that he has disabled the function allowing comments on his post, so it's akin to a bully pulpit without an opportunity for anyone to question his interpretation of the facts or to correct any mistakes (or to cast light on innuendo).

Some of his comments are troublesome if accurate. Others seem to be strictly subjective. More seem to be attempts to use half truths to smear the subject of his invective.

I don't want to quote from his site (not sure about the rules on that), so let's just go through them by number:

1) Troubling and shouldn't happen.

2) Ridiculous and shouldn't be a concern without more detail. I have lots of personal friends in the KCBS that I might joke around with in an email. Without details this is meaningless.

3) Completely subjective

4) Without specifics it is hard to give this any credence. The entirety of the staff? A little hard to believe.

5) How on earth would Rod be privy to this knowledge? What would be the purpose?

6) If this is true it is troubling.

7) Sounds like the kvetching of someone that didn't get there way. I highly doubt that the person involved is some crazed svengali and it's a bit insulting to the other members of the BoD to insinuate that they are that easily swayed.

8 - Seems baseless and in contradiction to what I have seen the individual in question try to get accomplished.

9) From what I have been told, that is a complete misrepresentation of the facts and more than anything else this makes me doubt the veracity of anything that Rod says.

10) If accurate, this is troubling.

11) This just doesn't ring true. It seems much more likely that it can be interpreted as 'I don't have much time left, so I'm going to try to get as much accomplished as possible. If I get as much done as I want, this is going to be a crazy 6 months'.

12) In general or on matters regarding the law? Regardless, if that is accurate it would have been rude in the extreme and troublesome.

13) Believable. I would have done the same.

14) Silly. Just completely inane. The nominating process is clearly vague and there have been two different process' followed in the past when someone resigned from the board. To try to enact a more structured process isn't what I would consider a negative.

To follow all 14 points up with a statement that he isn't going to make those 14 points is disingenuous at best.

So, out of 14 points less than a handful would be things that I would be concerned with if they were accurate.

Way too subjective for my liking and many points border on calumny.

Eric

musicmanryann
06-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Perhaps, but he really didn't say any of it. See the first sentence of the last paragraph. :wink:

motoeric
06-16-2009, 02:41 PM
Perhaps, but he really didn't say any of it. See the first sentence of the last paragraph. :wink:

Yeah, that was the possibly the worst of it. Hiding behind a weak disclaimer didn't help things at all.

If you don't want to say something, then don't. Not too complicated.

Eric

CivilWarBBQ
06-16-2009, 03:32 PM
Attempting to read between the lines of Internet postings is futile.

Rather than try to guess at what is really happening, why don't you attend a Board meeting or pick up the phone and talk first-hand with the parties involved and then double-check what they tell you with your own trusted sources.

You'll soon understand what the truth is and who is telling people what they want to hear purely for their own self interest. And no, I'm not going to post any specifics either as I have better things to do than waste time defending myself against frivolous lawsuits.

YankeeBBQ
06-16-2009, 09:17 PM
JWhat if a Board member went off on a F#@$ rant and was removed from the meeting and the next day resigns.



Well according to the interview Rod Did tonight that statement is totally false. Nobody was removed from the meeting. This situation is bad enough without people spreading misinformation. Shame shame

Sledneck
06-17-2009, 12:15 AM
Thanks everyone. I enjoyed most of my time on the board. KCBS is an awesome organization and I'm proud to be a member.
Maybe now you can make some time to do a cooking class here in the Northeast!:biggrin:

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 07:27 AM
Well according to the interview Rod Did tonight that statement is totally false. Nobody was removed from the meeting. This situation is bad enough without people spreading misinformation. Shame shame


:) one of the problems here is both "sides" have no shame
Its all about
I am right you are wrong

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 07:30 AM
Jeff
"causing dissent on the board"
You think that is a bad thing? You would if business as usual is your goal.
Go back and read Board minutes and you may get an idea how things are..

What if by the actions of the office KCBS has put KCBS in a position to be liable for large amount of money because they didn't follow KCBS rules for sanctioning. What if two members of the Board spoke were contacted parties involved to start the process to try resolve the situation. What if a Board member went off on a F#@$ rant and was removed from the meeting and the next day resigns.

Believe what ever you want, but Ray resigned for a reason, I didn't run for a second term for a reason, in both cases it didn't have anything to do with the Board member that all the innuendo is pointed at.

Removal from the meeting was called for
But in the end was not necessary

YankeeBBQ
06-17-2009, 08:41 AM
Removal from the meeting was called for
But in the end was not necessary
Called for by who ? You guys out West seem to have a lot of inside info. Were the minutes of the meeting posted somewhere that I'm not aware of ? Were you at the meeting ? What's your source ?

Jorge
06-17-2009, 09:08 AM
I will actually be having Rod on tonight to interview him about his side of the story to eliminate at least one side of specualtion. He should be on around 9:30pm EST and you can listen by going to www.latalkradio.com (http://www.latalkradio.com) (Channel 1). The BBQ Central Show begins airing live at 9pm EST but that is the time I tentatively have set up for Rod's apperance.

This is not a spam post...just trying to let everyone who is interested in this topic know where you can go to hear a live interview.

If you have a question you would like to ask Rod you can call in (216-220-0966) or you can email bbqcentralradio@gmail.com

Thanks!

Greg

Greg, do you know when the archive will be available so that we can hear the end of the interview?

Cue's Your Daddy
06-17-2009, 10:23 AM
Called for by who ? You guys out West seem to have a lot of inside info. Were the minutes of the meeting posted somewhere that I'm not aware of ? Were you at the meeting ? What's your source ?

Fair question that should be answered.

Scottie
06-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Called for by who ? You guys out West seem to have a lot of inside info. Were the minutes of the meeting posted somewhere that I'm not aware of ? Were you at the meeting ? What's your source ?


I think that is called embelishing Steve. :icon_shy I for one would love to hear that tape of the meeting that Rod said he had in last nights interview. I think it would put a lot of things to rest. I don't want to take sides, as I want the truth and I believe that tape would give it to us...

benjet
06-17-2009, 10:33 AM
Greg, do you know when the archive will be available so that we can hear the end of the interview?

I believe it is here -
http://www.bbq-4-u.com/bbqcs/june162009_1.mp3 (http://www.bbq-4-u.com/bbqcs/june162009_1.mp3)

C-Town Smoker
06-17-2009, 11:02 AM
I apologize for the interview getting cut off last night...I knew I was running up against a time limit as there was another show at 10pm EST starting. I did mean to give out an auxiliary link that would have allowed about 20 people to listen to the remainder...but...I got lost in the interview...SORRY!!

Benjet has posted the direct link to the show last night...I will update the XML for all of the pod catchers later this evening.

Thanks to Phil for letting me post about the show last night! I know I don't do it every week but this seemed to be a topic that a lot of people have an interest in...so I appreciate the flexibility, Phil...others weren't so accepting...LOL!!

By the way, since I cannot post this anywhere else, it was brought up if this "other person" will be given an opportunity to do the show as well. In fairness, since Rod did not use anyones name in particular I cannot assume who it is and extend an invite.

However, if someone contacts me about it, I am happy to host them to give both sides equal light...I am not a member of the KCBS therefore I have no bias to anyone!

benjet
06-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Were you at the meeting ?

Well actually yes I was, and I believe the minutes will show that I was the only non-KCBS/MMA person there.

In fact I'd suggest all KCBS members should attend, now that the home game is available - toll charges may apply ;)

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 01:44 PM
LOL looks at the names reading this thread
I tell ya we really need to get a life

Transformer BBQ
06-17-2009, 01:55 PM
Here is a motion made by this unreasonable BOD member
a motion for KCBS to adopt a policy which would require that each program, contract or venture of KCBS in the future, be budgeted and be economically sound and calculated to at least break even without economic loss to KCBS. Vote: 3 yes, 8 no 0 abstentions. Motion failed.




Was reading back... and I'm not sure how this motion passing would have been a positive. I know the status of the oganization has changed, but it did start off as a 501c3... so if this motion had passed, KCBS would never ever be able to do any charity work that didn't make money for KCBS.

You'd really have been placing some limits on the organization with this...

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 02:27 PM
I think that is called embelishing Steve. :icon_shy I for one would love to hear that tape of the meeting that Rod said he had in last nights interview. I think it would put a lot of things to rest. I don't want to take sides, as I want the truth and I believe that tape would give it to us...

I agree. Hearing that tape would be great. It would probably be very eye opening for all members. I hope one day it comes out so we can all know what really went down.

Among the many things I don't totally get about this whole deal is why Rod has not supported opening the BOD meeting to all members via phone/podcast/webcast/whatever.

The problem here is that Merl says one thing, Rod says another. The members are not really able to make an informed evaluation of the situation.

This chit just makes me want to go cook...

monty3777
06-17-2009, 02:49 PM
Here's my $.02

I ask this as a personal favor. PLEASE, PLEASE keep this topic live and kicking. I ask this especially of all those who are scheduled to compete in Marshalltown next week. Please post your opinions - and make them lengthy. Don't get all caught up in working on your briskets, butts, chicken, and ribs. :)

Scottie
06-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Exactly what I am doing Jeff! I'm going out to the mountains and having a nice calming weekend... I'll be thinking of you! 8-)

I do believe the tape would answer a lot of questions though. Otherwise it turns into what my girls do. There's always 3 sides to a story: your story, my story and the truth...

Plowboy
06-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Merl

I thought it was "unknown".

YankeeBBQ
06-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Exactly what I am doing Jeff! I'm going out to the mountains and having a nice calming weekend... I'll be thinking of you! 8-)

I do believe the tape would answer a lot of questions though. Otherwise it turns into what my girls do. There's always 3 sides to a story: your story, my story and the truth...

I believe you would have to hear more than one tape to get the full truth. I think all of the taped meetings should be made available to the membership. Since the meetings are open to the membership nobody should have a problem with that right ?

Plowboy
06-17-2009, 02:57 PM
There's always 3 sides to a story: your story, my story and the truth...

Exactly why I think "transparency" won't do us any good. People see what they want to see even when watching the exactly the same thing. I'd take communication over transparency at this point... I think.

EDIT: I should have rather said, transparency won't resolve much of the bitching and complaining. It may amplify it.

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 03:00 PM
I believe you would have to hear more than one tape to get the full truth. I think all of the taped meetings should be made available to the membership. Since the meetings are open to the membership nobody should have a problem with that right ?

So, how do we go about getting the tape or tapes released?

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 03:01 PM
I thought it was "unknown".

Hey, a spade's a spade...

Scottie
06-17-2009, 03:05 PM
I believe you would have to hear more than one tape to get the full truth. I think all of the taped meetings should be made available to the membership. Since the meetings are open to the membership nobody should have a problem with that right ?


That's why I nominated you to Mike Lake for the KCBS Board.... I like how you think. I mean if we can't get "live" hook-up. At least let us get a Podcast or taped (I don't know what it would be called), that would be available in the member section. We could listen to it, but it couldn't be copied...


I know Rod won't be happy with me... but I sorta wanted to hear Rod spittin nails... I don't think I've ever seen him that mad.... :twisted:

jminion
06-17-2009, 03:25 PM
Was reading back... and I'm not sure how this motion passing would have been a positive. I know the status of the oganization has changed, but it did start off as a 501c3... so if this motion had passed, KCBS would never ever be able to do any charity work that didn't make money for KCBS.

You'd really have been placing some limits on the organization with this...

A 501c 3 is a charity, if you go back and check you will find that it has been difficult for even Cookers Care to get money from KCBS. KCBS is closer aligned to a service or educational organization now not a charity.

jminion
06-17-2009, 03:30 PM
Well according to the interview Rod Did tonight that statement is totally false. Nobody was removed from the meeting. This situation is bad enough without people spreading misinformation. Shame shame

I may have misspoke. A motion was made at least to have a member removed from the meeting and the next day there was a resignation.

Bastey Boy
06-17-2009, 03:34 PM
Jim, any insight into why the motion was made to remove the person from the meeting?

Andy

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I may have misspoke. A motion was made at least to have a member removed from the meeting and the next day there was a resignation.

Thanks for clearing that up Jim

kcpellethead
06-17-2009, 03:55 PM
I may have misspoke. A motion was made at least to have a member removed from the meeting and the next day there was a resignation.

That is completely wrong Jim. No motion was made. How would you know any of this anyway Jim? Where is it posted? How do you know the details of a situation where the two board members you mentioned attempted to resolve an issue? Where can I read about that?

Transformer BBQ
06-17-2009, 04:03 PM
A 501c 3 is a charity, if you go back and check you will find that it has been difficult for even Cookers Care to get money from KCBS. KCBS is closer aligned to a service or educational organization now not a charity.

I said I know it isn't a charity...

Your response still doesn't answer the question on how an organization would be able to function if every single time they spent money it had to have a positive return.

This diversion isn't really the point of this thread, I just don't think that motion was a valid point that that board member does good things for KCBS... I think that motion, along with a list of others handcuffs it, and prevents it from the charter.

WWGD

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 04:05 PM
Rod

Would you agree to a release of the tapes of the last board meeting?

If you do so, I'll personally ask Merl to do the same.

Thanks--Jeff

Sledneck
06-17-2009, 05:06 PM
All of this would make for a great reality TV show

kcpellethead
06-17-2009, 06:35 PM
Rod

Would you agree to a release of the tapes of the last board meeting?

If you do so, I'll personally ask Merl to do the same.

Thanks--Jeff

Jeff,

What if I told you that tape was obtained while I was still a member of the board of directors? If I told you that, then I'd say it's probably unethical to release it to the public at this time. I've not consulted anyone about it, I just think that's the answer I would get to my hypothetical question. The entire board knows what went on in that meeting. If need be, there is a recording to prove or disprove any or all of it. There's a recording made of each and every meeting for the last several years. Besides, if the only point we're trying to prove is as to whether I was removed from a meeting for something I said to another board member after being told "I was too stupid to speak to him/her" then I'll let them have that. It's just not that important to me Jeff.

I don't know if I've helped or hurt your case, but I hope you can appreciate my situation. Thnx!

Bentley
06-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Must...resist...posting...

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 07:02 PM
Rod,

I don't have a case. I just agree with Scottie and Steve that the tape should be released.

I don't know about your tape, Merl's tape, or the board's tape.

I have not jumped to any conclusions. I know Merl and Carol from several years of KCBS comps and classes. You and I have many mutual friends who assure me that you are a man of character. I don't know who or what to believe.

But, I think there is more to the meeting than the removal issue.

Frankly, I could care less about the other board members knowing the details. I think the membership deserves to know the truth about the whole meeting, and that can only happen if you and Merl agree to the release of the tapes.

Regards--Jeff

Plowboy
06-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Listening to the end of Rod's interview on BBQ Central was the best and only piece of substance in this whole melodrama. Let's get out of the mud and get strategic. Let's focus on making BBQ better and bigger. "The Tape" is just another meaningless topic distracting us all from the mission of KCBS. It is getting into the "thick of thin things".

WWGD

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 07:21 PM
Listening to the end of Rod's interview on BBQ Central was the best and only piece of substance in this whole melodrama. Let's get out of the mud and get strategic. Let's focus on making BBQ better and bigger. "The Tape" is just another meaningless topic distracting us all from the mission of KCBS. It is getting into the "thick of thin things".

WWGD


Great point

parrothead
06-17-2009, 07:34 PM
Great point

Yes indeedy.

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Well, that could have been done without all the rumors/innuendo/facts/lies that have gone all on all week...

Bentley
06-17-2009, 08:01 PM
Rod,
Frankly, I could care less about the other board members knowing the details. I think the membership deserves to know the truth about the whole meeting, and that can only happen if you and Merl agree to the release of the tapes.

Regards--Jeff

As a current member, I could not agree more!

Not sure if the tape would clear everything up, but it would leave little doubt about who said what!

Sledneck
06-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Hearing the tape wont change anything, will just make for more talk over the fences.

Jeff Hughes
06-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Hearing the tape wont change anything, will just make for more talk over the fences.

The damage is done, the truth should still come out...

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 09:13 PM
This isn't about one meeting gone bad, correct.
We have a horribly divided leadership

Smoke'n Ice
06-17-2009, 09:31 PM
We have heard one person’s side, innuendos, minimal collaboration, and not much else. I’m rooting for the Paul Harvey “and now for the rest of the story” part. That is the only fair thing to do for the "horribly divided leadership", one person's take, that is being put out as 'fact' with no supporting statements or documentation. We just might be surprised to say the least.

Bentley
06-17-2009, 09:35 PM
Hearing the tape wont change anything, will just make for more talk over the fences.

I disagree. It might make people take a second look at who they vote for.

MilitantSquatter
06-17-2009, 09:47 PM
I disagree. It might make people take a second look at who they vote for.

True.. but if one tape were made available, others would want previous tapes made available to see what took place at previous meetings that may have set the table etc..then it will be the need for e-mails, phone calls, voice mails, text messages etc... would become and endless cycle ...just not necessary IMO..

just like in any democracy, the members have the right to elect the best candidates.. somehow this candidate was found to be worthy of a spot by the KCBS members who voted based on what they knew of the person at the time. If the mystery BOD member has a poor record during the term or negative perception by word of mouth through grassroots efforts proves otherwise, he will not be re-elected. But in the meantime, just like with local, state or federal politics chit happens that many don't like.. the next election allows things to change... hopefully a few that are not happy with the current state of afairs will step up and consider running rather than waiting for someone else to lead.

ZILLA
06-17-2009, 09:54 PM
We need KCBS-SPAN

Bentley
06-17-2009, 10:02 PM
True.. but if one tape were made available, others would want previous tapes made available to see what took place at previous meetings that may have set the table etc..

And this would be bad why...

It it KCBS or the Skull n Bones Society?

ThomEmery
06-17-2009, 10:10 PM
Horribly Divided Skull n Bones

Jeff_in_KC
06-17-2009, 10:21 PM
We have heard one personís side, innuendos, minimal collaboration, and not much else. Iím rooting for the Paul Harvey ďand now for the rest of the storyĒ part. That is the only fair thing to do for the "horribly divided leadership", one person's take, that is being put out as 'fact' with no supporting statements or documentation. We just might be surprised to say the least.

This has been my point all along but from a slightly different angle. You absolutely KNOW this "other" person is reading both this site and another. You KNOW he/she is fully aware of what's going on BUT... has he/she said one single word since this whole thing came out in defense of himself/herself? Nope, not a single word I've seen anywhere. A person free of blame might prefer to be out telling his/her side of the story. And because that person is not doing so, all the more reason to believe that things went down exactly as Rod says they did. I mean seriously, we all know who this other person is without anyone spilling the beans. So let's have it... to the "unknown" KCBS board member: enlighten us.

MilitantSquatter
06-17-2009, 10:24 PM
And this would be bad why...

It it KCBS or the Skull n Bones Society?

It's not a bad thing.. if it were a standard practice that was already occuring...

but to take an issue that is rather broad in scope, more about a person and words rather than an action or inaction, and request that it get blown up to the point that tapes need to be made available by KCBS seems a bit overboard..

If Rod chooses to release the tape on his own, and there is no threat to him from a legality standpoint, then that seems fine if that's the route he chooses to take.. but it should be his choice/decision, not just because a bunch of internet forum posters are saying it should be done.

Sure there might be inefficiencies, lack of cohesion/leadership etc in the BOD if everyone already knows this then the tapes just make for better drama then substance.

Amazing to me that any of this nonsense revolves around what is supposedly a hobby about cooking meat over fire..

Bentley
06-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Nope, not a single word I've seen anywhere. A person free of blame might prefer to be out telling his/her side of the story. And because that person is not doing so, all the more reason to believe that things went down exactly as Rod says they did.

Sorry, cant agree with that statement. Just because someone does not respond does not make the other persons verson the gospel truth.

Bentley
06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
It's not a bad thing.. if it were a standard practice that was already occuring...



My whole point is why is it not standard...Do city council, state or federal legislative meetings take place in private...Not to my knowledge.

Do I care about the bickering's of KCBS board members, heck no, I relish in it! But why does the KCBS BoD feel the need for such secrecy? Is their goal the betterment of the Society for THEIR Members?

White Dog BBQ
06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
I disagree. It might make people take a second look at who they vote for.

This hits on what most irritates me about this -- if Merl has been such a long-term problem, why didn't it come up, oh, six months ago when he was up for reelection? I'm not directing this at Rod -- as a sitting board member, I can fully appreciate why he didn't want to get involved in the election. But I am seeing other people post some pretty serious allegations (primarily on other forums) that, if true, are troubling. If you can post these accusations now, you should have posted them when it really mattered.

Please note that I'm not saying I believe much of anything I'm reading right now -- I have no clue as to what is true and what isn't. All I know is that Rod is an accomplished cook, respected competitor and a Brethren. I also know that Merl is a Brethren that we rallied behind when he and Carol were targeted with the so-called "anti-nepotism" policy, presumably for Merl's efforts at openness and critical review of the MMA deal. I have a hard time accepting that either man is as bad as his detractors are painting. It seems to me that this was a professional dispute that, unfortunately, became extremely personal. It is not for us to try and settle or judge their personal issues. I hope, however, that maybe Rod's resignation will lead to some serious discussion about the direction of the organization.

Jeff_in_KC
06-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Sorry, cant agree with that statement. Just because someone does not respond does not make the other persons verson the gospel truth.


No it doesn't. But it sure makes this other person look like he's got something to hide or spending a week coming up with a believeable story. Be serious! If you were being bashed all over the online BBQ world, wouldn't you at least make a comment or two in defense of yourself? :roll:

Jeff_in_KC
06-17-2009, 10:42 PM
This hits on what most irritates me about this -- if Merl has been such a long-term problem, why didn't it come up, oh, six months ago when he was up for reelection?

It DID from many people. I've known for some time from information told to me by no less than four people of some of these allegations.


I'm not directing this at Rod -- as a sitting board member, I can fully appreciate why he didn't want to get involved in the election. But I am seeing other people post some pretty serious allegations (primarily on other forums) that, if true, are troubling. If you can post these accusations now, you should have posted them when it really mattered.

See above.

Please note that I'm not saying I believe much of anything I'm reading right now -- I have no clue as to what is true and what isn't. All I know is that Rod is an accomplished cook, respected competitor and a Brethren. I also know that Merl is a Brethren that we rallied behind when he and Carol were targeted with the so-called "anti-nepotism" policy, presumably for Merl's efforts at openness and critical review of the MMA deal. I have a hard time accepting that either man is as bad as his detractors are painting. It seems to me that this was a professional dispute that, unfortunately, became extremely personal. It is not for us to try and settle or judge their personal issues. I hope, however, that maybe Rod's resignation will lead to some serious discussion about the direction of the organization.

It absolutely IS up to us to become involved in the solution! It's our society that it is effecting. We are members and elect these people. And it is absolutely NOT a personal issue.

I'm going to bed before I say anything I don't want to say just yet.

Bentley
06-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Be serious! If you were being bashed all over the online BBQ world, wouldn't you at least make a comment or two in defense of yourself? :roll:

No. Thats why I left the CBBQA!

motoeric
06-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Wow. I can't disagree with this sentiment more.

I would opine that it is at least as likely that the other person is attempting to stay 'above the fray'. Whether out of a professional standpoint as a current member of the BoD or for a personal motivation to not respond to what they consider invective without merit (in their opinion), I have no idea. But the choice not to engage in argumentative should never be considered a sign of guilt.

Eric


This has been my point all along but from a slightly different angle. You absolutely KNOW this "other" person is reading both this site and another. You KNOW he/she is fully aware of what's going on BUT... has he/she said one single word since this whole thing came out in defense of himself/herself? Nope, not a single word I've seen anywhere. A person free of blame might prefer to be out telling his/her side of the story. And because that person is not doing so, all the more reason to believe that things went down exactly as Rod says they did. I mean seriously, we all know who this other person is without anyone spilling the beans. So let's have it... to the "unknown" KCBS board member: enlighten us.

motoeric
06-17-2009, 11:12 PM
It it KCBS or the Skull n Bones Society?

Please note that the Skull n Bones Society is a wholly owned subsidiary of the BBQ Illuminati. All rights reserved. All lefts freely distributed.

Eric

Skip
06-17-2009, 11:34 PM
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/353384/funny_court_fight/

Turn off sound. Look they really did try to escort him out. :lol:

The results will show in the elections. I'm sure next election will be affected by this be it true or not. Who is right and who is wrong may never be understood. Maybe a clean slate is the best course of action.

As for the tapes I agree that its really not the right choice. The records are there and for other reason then for the membership to pick and choose which they hear. Those recorded had no expectation of them being released. It would be unfair to do so now. For better or worse knowing that the tapes might be released would have some mincing their words.

Kristin Meredith
06-18-2009, 12:05 AM
Could someone explain these tapes that everyone is referencing? Are they tapes which the BoD officially makes of each meeting? If so, all the members of the Board would know that tapes were being made and would have no expectation of privacy in what was recorded.

If the tapes aren't made with the members knowledge or are tapes which individuals are making on their own without permission of those being taped then that is a whole different ball game and the person who made the tape has a lot more to worry about than just the content of the tape. So, can anyone provide some insight on this issue?

White Dog BBQ
06-18-2009, 06:49 AM
It DID from many people. I've known for some time from information told to me by no less than four people of some of these allegations.


Please point to me where any of this was posted online before the election. I just read the 7 page KCBS 2009 Election thread on here and saw no mention of any of this, let alone any negative comments towards Merl.

So again, I make my point -- if Merl has been such a long-term problem, why didn't anyone speak up online when it actually mattered?




It absolutely IS up to us to become involved in the solution! It's our society that it is effecting. We are members and elect these people. And it is absolutely NOT a personal issue.


Again, I disagree -- reading Rod's blog post again, almost all of it looks like personal issues he had with Merl. I'm not seeing much of anything dealing with policy issues.

I just don't see why we should care whether Rod's accusations are true or not, because in the grand scheme of things, it looks like a personality clash to me. Why waste time and energy on a conflict we can't fix?

ThomEmery
06-18-2009, 07:41 AM
Could someone explain these tapes that everyone is referencing? Are they tapes which the BoD officially makes of each meeting? If so, all the members of the Board would know that tapes were being made and would have no expectation of privacy in what was recorded.

If the tapes aren't made with the members knowledge or are tapes which individuals are making on their own without permission of those being taped then that is a whole different ball game and the person who made the tape has a lot more to worry about than just the content of the tape. So, can anyone provide some insight on this issue?

Kristen
All know about the tape
Merl has been point on opening the meetings

ThomEmery
06-18-2009, 07:42 AM
Please point to me where any of this was posted online before the election. I just read the 7 page KCBS 2009 Election thread on here and saw no mention of any of this, let alone any negative comments towards Merl.

So again, I make my point -- if Merl has been such a long-term problem, why didn't anyone speak up online when it actually mattered?





Again, I disagree -- reading Rod's blog post again, almost all of it looks like personal issues he had with Merl. I'm not seeing much of anything dealing with policy issues.

I just don't see why we should care whether Rod's accusations are true or not, because in the grand scheme of things, it looks like a personality clash to me. Why waste time and energy on a conflict we can't fix?


Amen

willkat98
06-18-2009, 07:56 AM
I'm thinking of signing up again with KCBS.

Hell, for $35 a year, this is more drama than I get on HBO

.

stlgreg
06-18-2009, 09:02 AM
This hits on what most irritates me about this -- if Merl has been such a long-term problem, why didn't it come up, oh, six months ago when he was up for reelection? I'm not directing this at Rod -- as a sitting board member, I can fully appreciate why he didn't want to get involved in the election. But I am seeing other people post some pretty serious allegations (primarily on other forums) that, if true, are troubling. If you can post these accusations now, you should have posted them when it really mattered.
.

actually Merl was not up for election this past year.

A KCBS board member is elected on three year terms. At the end of the second consecutive term, the director may not run until they sit out three years. Which is where Merl is.

Bastey Boy
06-18-2009, 09:19 AM
Listening to the end of Rod's interview on BBQ Central was the best and only piece of substance in this whole melodrama. Let's get out of the mud and get strategic. Let's focus on making BBQ better and bigger. "The Tape" is just another meaningless topic distracting us all from the mission of KCBS. It is getting into the "thick of thin things".

WWGD

You mean this, from the KCBS web-site?

Mission
"Our mission is to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. We want barbeque to be recognized as America's Cuisine."

What if I told you there are those who believe that KCBS has strayed from it's mission?

Or how about this, from the KCBS History page?

"So, while pondering this dilemma, Carolyn, Gary and Rick decided to form a club for the cookers. The only criteria for membership was that none of it be taken seriously - to do so was grounds for disqualification."

What if I told you there are those who believe that KCBS has lost sight of the original intent of the organization?

What if I told you that I believe that you ask the most pertinant question I've heard yet, a question that all BBQ people would be wise to ask ourselves?

That question is:

WWGD?

Sledneck
06-18-2009, 09:34 AM
You mean this, from the KCBS web-site?

Mission
"Our mission is to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. We want barbeque to be recognized as America's Cuisine."

What if I told you there are those who believe that KCBS has strayed from it's mission?

Or how about this, from the KCBS History page?

"So, while pondering this dilemma, Carolyn, Gary and Rick decided to form a club for the cookers. The only criteria for membership was that none of it be taken seriously - to do so was grounds for disqualification."

What if I told you there are those who believe that KCBS has lost sight of the original intent of the organization?

What if I told you that I believe that you ask the most pertinant question I've heard yet, a question that all BBQ people would be wise to ask ourselves?

That question is:

WWGD?
From what I am reading so far in this thread, most seem to be only wanting to know:
WWRD?

Skip
06-18-2009, 10:06 AM
[quote=Kristin Meredith;952923] If so, all the members of the Board would know that tapes were being made and would have no expectation of privacy in what was recorded.[quote]

Well Kristin thats not completely true. The audio records have never been released before to my knowledge. Yes its true they know they are being recorded but with a precedent set for non release there is a different expectation of what is to come. I would agree with your assessment if the audio records had been released in the past.

Jorge
06-18-2009, 10:19 AM
My whole point is why is it not standard...Do city council, state or federal legislative meetings take place in private...Not to my knowledge.



Elected legislative bodies hold meetings not open to the public all of the time, for personnel issues, matters of national security etc... As a member you are entitled to attend the monthly meeting in Kansas City. While it may not be practical for many of us, it is an option available to us.

Bentley
06-18-2009, 11:53 AM
Elected legislative bodies hold meetings not open to the public all of the time, for personnel issues, matters of national security etc...

And I dont think the monthly KCBS BoD meetings handle matters like this in the regular schedule meetings each month do they?

Sledneck
06-18-2009, 11:57 AM
. As a member you are entitled to attend the monthly meeting in Kansas City. While it may not be practical for many of us, it is an option available to us. Can a member attending the meeting record it?

Jorge
06-18-2009, 12:14 PM
And I dont think the monthly KCBS BoD meetings handle matters like this in the regular schedule meetings each month do they?

I can see a need for an Executive session for personnel matters, current or potential litigation, or some contractual issues for legal reasons. Should they come up, I think that it's reasonable for the board to adjourn to such a session.

Jorge
06-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Can a member attending the meeting record it?

No idea.

paydabill
06-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Wow - i resisted to post about this. However, I noiticed one thing.

Look at the breathern who are posting. This subject must be have gotten people out of the wood work. A lot of members with little posting are posting and reading.

Maybe this did what Rod might have unintentional wanted - People to get involved again.

That is it - I will duck and weave now.

bbqczar
06-18-2009, 12:18 PM
What I don't understand(and yes,I am pretty dense usually) is why all the secrecy at the BOD meeteings ? This is a BBQ organization,not CIA,NSA,FBI,etc. This has nothing to do with national security or anything like that whatsoever.Why not make the recordings available to all ? I could see not releasing recordings ,maybe,if it were a local group where most if not all could attend the meetings,but come on,this is a nationwide(and actually worldwide) group,so few can actually attend the meetings.What will it take for the MEMBERS of KCBS to get the oppertunity to listen in,or get tapes of these meetings.I just don't know why ALL of the BOD members would not want this for the membership.Again,maybe I am missing something big about this :-?

big brother smoke
06-18-2009, 02:15 PM
What I don't understand(and yes,I am pretty dense usually) is why all the secrecy at the BOD meeteings ? This is a BBQ organization,not CIA,NSA,FBI,etc. This has nothing to do with national security or anything like that whatsoever.Why not make the recordings available to all ? I could see not releasing recordings ,maybe,if it were a local group where most if not all could attend the meetings,but come on,this is a nationwide(and actually worldwide) group,so few can actually attend the meetings.What will it take for the MEMBERS of KCBS to get the oppertunity to listen in,or get tapes of these meetings.I just don't know why ALL of the BOD members would not want this for the membership.Again,maybe I am missing something big about this :-?

Well, I must be dense too, cause I was wondering the same thing pretty much!:roll:

Skip
06-18-2009, 02:26 PM
The release of the tapes would be done outside the normal expectations. These people know they are being taped but have a sense that it will never go beyond use as a tool to fill in minutes or the like. The people speak candidly and quite possible open up more then they would if it were common practice to release the tapes. To now go back and release tapes to the public that were never meant for such a release would be difficult to justify.
For instance we have all or will all find ourselves face with a need to release bio metric profiles of ourselves. This will be done for security reasons and only for that purpose. Now if a situation arose where this information would help someone else sleep better at night just knowing it would you feel comfortable with the release of that information....especially if you didn't allow it and weren't told it might be used in this instance in the first place?

Jorge
06-18-2009, 02:56 PM
Minor Admin Note: While related, the discussion is starting to drift. A new thread, addressing a method for opening up the meetings can be started if anyone is interested.

Beyond that, I'd like to commend everyone that has remained on topic and kept it much more civil than I feared it could become. It is appreciated!

That isn't any sort of code to end the discussion. As long as it remains civil, and there is an exchange of thoughts and ideas it will remain a productive thread.

ThomEmery
06-18-2009, 03:21 PM
The General Topic of "KCBS what next" could work :)
Meetings are now open you can listen in if want and
I believe sign up before hand

White Dog BBQ
06-18-2009, 05:59 PM
actually Merl was not up for election this past year.

A KCBS board member is elected on three year terms. At the end of the second consecutive term, the director may not run until they sit out three years. Which is where Merl is.

Merl was the top vote getter in the 2009 Board elections

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=119

jminion
06-18-2009, 07:12 PM
Merl was the top vote getter in the 2009 Board elections

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=119

That should read Carol Whitebook, maybe had Merl on there mind while typing results.

White Dog BBQ
06-18-2009, 08:38 PM
That should read Carol Whitebook, maybe had Merl on there mind while typing results.

No, Carol was elected in 2008.

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=37

Merl was definitely on this year's ballot. I have a postcard he sent.

jminion
06-18-2009, 09:55 PM
No, Carol was elected in 2008.

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=37

Merl was definitely on this year's ballot. I have a postcard he sent.

Your right time flies when you don't have to attend BOD meetings.

Jeff_in_KC
06-19-2009, 12:08 AM
I'm going to make one more comment on this thing then I've got a contest with which I will concern myself... for you who are discounting what I've said and who think this is simply a personality conflict between Rod and "unknown", you are FLAT WRONG. Yes, it involves both of them but it also includes others on the board, former board members, contest reps, contest organizers and others associated with KCBS in one way or another. Have fun with this and best wishes for a great weekend and father's day. Later.

White Dog BBQ
06-19-2009, 06:30 AM
I'm going to make one more comment on this thing then I've got a contest with which I will concern myself... for you who are discounting what I've said and who think this is simply a personality conflict between Rod and "unknown", you are FLAT WRONG. Yes, it involves both of them but it also includes others on the board, former board members, contest reps, contest organizers and others associated with KCBS in one way or another. Have fun with this and best wishes for a great weekend and father's day. Later.

Jeff,

Good luck in your contest this weekend.

Smoke'n Ice
06-19-2009, 07:00 AM
Is it possible that "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" used the signature “Montague” (Fahrenheit 451) as an expression of protest to what he perceived as a totalitarian state of government? It may have been "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" way to protest, relieve stress, and then look for the next windmill, instead of packing up his toys and going home!
I voted for both of the individuals with the full expectation of them doing what is best for KCBS with discourse, debate, disagreement and, most important, “remember it is just barbecue.”
Heading out for Ada, see some of you there.

Mack
Smoke'n Ice

ThomEmery
06-19-2009, 07:39 AM
I'm going to make one more comment on this thing then I've got a contest with which I will concern myself... for you who are discounting what I've said and who think this is simply a personality conflict between Rod and "unknown", you are FLAT WRONG. Yes, it involves both of them but it also includes others on the board, former board members, contest reps, contest organizers and others associated with KCBS in one way or another. Have fun with this and best wishes for a great weekend and father's day. Later.


Yes Jeff we are divided now
Winning each argument seems to be too important
on both sides. Somewhere in this mess is a moderate position that
most members would be comfortable with

stlgreg
06-19-2009, 07:57 AM
Merl was the top vote getter in the 2009 Board elections

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=119

Holy Chit, where is my head

Jeff_in_KC
06-21-2009, 10:36 AM
Yes Jeff we are divided now
Winning each argument seems to be too important
on both sides. Somewhere in this mess is a moderate position that
most members would be comfortable with

Thom, it's not about being on one side or the other. It's about looking at the facts. It shouldn't divide anyone.

Jeff Hughes
06-21-2009, 10:39 AM
Thom, it's not about being on one side or the other. It's about looking at the facts. It shouldn't divide anyone.

We don't have the facts, and it looks like we never will...

Dale P
06-21-2009, 11:27 AM
What I have heard and read blows my mind. The reading part I take with a grain of salt but what my BBQ friends have told me just blows my mind. I believe them. There is a bully on board and shame on him, shame shame. Useing a power to bully is pathetic.

ThomEmery
06-21-2009, 03:59 PM
Thom, it's not about being on one side or the other. It's about looking at the facts. It shouldn't divide anyone.

Jeff my reference to we was the BoD
We being all of the membership represented by the BoD.