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Sledneck
06-10-2009, 01:34 PM
I have the same hate for burnt ends that QueinKC Jeff has for chicken, although my hate for chicken is not far behind. I rarely turn in burnt ends cause they usually suck. They are always to chewy. Any cooking tips appreciated.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-10-2009, 01:39 PM
A1 injection

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
06-10-2009, 01:43 PM
I actually dont seem to have the time to make burnt ends at comps, at home I take and seperate the flat and point when done, re-season and cook for just about forever or until dead what ever comes first.

Divemaster
06-10-2009, 01:49 PM
I think the burnt ends were the only saving grace we had last year for our brisket....

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 02:04 PM
I think the burnt ends were the only saving grace we had last year for our brisket....
Thanks for the tip, I am sure it will come in handy:rolleyes:

musicmanryann
06-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Do you wrap? Baste? Inject? Marinade? What kind of Beef do you use? Fat side up down? I guess they should be a little chewy due to the extra amount of bark, but not tough at all.

To me good burnt ends are one of the greatest culinary creations in the history of humankind.

musicmanryann
06-10-2009, 02:06 PM
I actually dont seem to have the time to make burnt ends at comps, at home I take and seperate the flat and point when done, re-season and cook for just about forever or until dead what ever comes first.

Do you cook hot and fast? Since I have never cooked this way I wouldn't know, but I have never had to separate the point and flat and re-cook to get it where I want it.:?:

bigabyte
06-10-2009, 02:07 PM
Hmm...to each their own i guess. I can't imagine not liking them. Maybe you should just send all your burnt ends to me. On second thought, scratch that idea. It could be that I wouldn't like them either!:lol::wink::biggrin:

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Do you wrap? Baste? Inject? Marinade? What kind of Beef do you use? Fat side up down? I guess they should be a little chewy due to the extra amount of bark, but not tough at all.

To me good burnt ends are one of the greatest culinary creations in the history of humankind.
I do wrap, I do inject, i use choice briskets typically from RD, I cook fat side down. After I separate falt and point , Flat in cooler then point back (still wrapped) on and leaveit on all morning of turn in . I then cube and put some rub or sauce or both and put in a pan and back on cooker bout and hour before turn in

Divemaster
06-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Thanks for the tip, I am sure it will come in handy:rolleyes:
Sorry Sled.... Smart a$$ mod...

I split my brisket before I cook it... When I remove the flat, I chunk up the point, add some additional rub, add a sweet sauce, and put it back into the cooker until turn-in stiring every hour except for the last hour (I want at least one side well browned from the sugar...

The extra couple of hours, while the brisket is sitting in the cooler, seems to tenderize them nicely...

One thing to remember, don't cut the cubes any larger than an inch to an inch and a half or they'll never get done in time....

Hope this helps....

musicmanryann
06-10-2009, 02:14 PM
I do wrap, I do inject, i use choice briskets typically from RD, I cook fat side down. After I separate falt and point , Flat in cooler then point back on and leaveit on all morning of turn in . I then cube and put some rub or sauce or both and put in a pan and back on cooker.

So this is to re-bark the point so to speak? It could be that the point is getting over-cooked when it goes back on the cooker. I cooler both at the same time and only separate at turn-in.

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 02:19 PM
So this is to re-bark the point so to speak? It could be that the point is getting over-cooked when it goes back on the cooker. I cooler both at the same time and only separate at turn-in.Not to rebark, to try to make them more tender but they never do come out that way. They are always tough.

Brew-B-Q
06-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I've done it both ways - separate then cook for a few hours, then cube, sauce, etc. I've also done it where I rest the whole brisket together and make burnt ends right before turn-in. IMO, it depends on how you trim your brisket to begin with. If you trim agressively and throw the point on for another couple hours, you'll overcook them.

I don't consider what I turn in to be a true burnt end, but rather a cube of brisket.

bigabyte
06-10-2009, 02:23 PM
After I seperate the flat and point, I trim the point up really good. If it is cooked ot the proper degree of doneness at this point (for my stuff anyway), then this will be fairly easy to do, however, if not done enough, that fat will be hard to remove from the point. I like to remove the fat, chop up the point, then sprinkle with rub and back in the cooker. I find trimmed meat is less chewy and more palatable in my opinion.

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 02:24 PM
After I seperate the flat and point, I trim the point up really good. If it is cooked ot the proper degree of doneness at this point (for my stuff anyway), then this will be fairly easy to do, however, if not done enough, that fat will be hard to remove from the point. I like to remove the fat, chop up the point, then sprinkle with rub and back in the cooker. I find trimmed meat is less chewy and more palatable in my opinion. For how long?

bigabyte
06-10-2009, 02:27 PM
Two to 4 hours, depending on how crisp your like the edges. Anything over 2 hours gets a stir and another sprinkling of rub. Oh, and drainage is important, at least for my burnt ends any way. Some people like them with the fat in really big chunks and not crispy on the edges, i'm the opposite of that school of thought I guess.

Divemaster
06-10-2009, 02:27 PM
What, you want ALL of our almost winning secrets??? lol

Scottie
06-10-2009, 02:31 PM
I got a good recipe from Lotta Bull... Do you want it? :twisted::twisted::twisted:

I trim my points and never separate them from the flat... They are done whebn the flat is done. They turn out good everytime... Unless if you are in Moweaqua, IL on a Sunday in June... Then they obviously suck... :shock:

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 02:34 PM
I got a good recipe from Lotta Bull... Do you want it? :twisted::twisted::twisted:

I trim my points and never separate them from the flat... They are done whebn the flat is done. They turn out good everytime... Unless if you are in Moweaqua, IL on a Sunday in June... Then they obviously suck... :shock: Good one, thanks for reading my blog:wink: :biggrin:

Jacked UP BBQ
06-10-2009, 02:39 PM
Good one, thanks for reading my blog:wink: :biggrin:

you have a blog????

Jacked UP BBQ
06-10-2009, 02:39 PM
BLOGUMINATI: A Secret Sauce Does Exist (http://bbqilluminati.blogspot.com/) duh, stupid me

motoeric
06-10-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm not going to muster up enough hubris to offer you cooking tips (you are certainly much better than I am), so I'll take a different tack. Have you considered that you just might not like them but they are still good? Is your personal taste getting in the way of an accurate assessment?

If you just don't like burnt ends, maybe you should try yours side by side with some that are generally considered to kickass. Maybe yours are good but your preferences are making you think not.

Eric

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 04:11 PM
I'm not going to muster up enough hubris to offer you cooking tips (you are certainly much better than I am), so I'll take a different tack. Have you considered that you just might not like them but they are still good? Is your personal taste getting in the way of an accurate assessment?

If you just don't like burnt ends, maybe you should try yours side by side with some that are generally considered to kickass. Maybe yours are good but your preferences are making you think not.

EricNo i love burnt ends. I know what they should taste like and what I am producing doesnt even come close. When I do put them in the box I end up with real bad scores

pigmaker23
06-10-2009, 04:30 PM
perhaps you shall become enlightned at the Boston Hills Contest.

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 04:54 PM
I know this may be obvious, but if you score bad when you turn them in, din't turn them in :-D Mine don't always live up to my expectations. It depends on he brisket. the onces that I had at mowe Its more or less tweaking. Brisket for the most part has been one of my stonger categories but I end up many times 6-10(never a top 5) . I feel that if I could just produce burnt ends as good as my slices that it would propel me to 1-5.

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 04:56 PM
perhaps you shall become enlightned at the Boston Hills Contest.
Perhaps:biggrin:

BBQchef33
06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
i think you just dont know what a burnt end is supposed to be.

All kidding aside, neither do I...

is it a soft tender cube of brisket(mine)

is it crunchy on the outside(not mine, but R.U.B.S).

is it reseasoned(with rub), or just carmelized sauce? I have had burnt ends so many different ways, i dont know which is the real deal... Mine are just cubed point, right after slicing the flat, a resauce them and then high heat them to carmelize the sauce.

I have also put them in a pan(with holes poked so they drain), re-rubed, let them render for another hour in the pit. the result was a more chewy version of cubed brisket. i liked my the first way better.


maybe yours are good but u think they suck... so make a batch, and a bunch of us will show up and judge them.

Dale P
06-10-2009, 05:49 PM
I thought I knew what a good B-E should taste like until we had the pleasure of trying some at The Jack that blew our farking minds. There was zero chew and would just melt in your mouth with an explosion of beef flavor. Best I ever had. MMMMM I need some now.


It can be done for I have seen it. My opinion leans towards thinking that some people might underestimate what 'burnt' really suggests. :shock:

musicmanryann
06-10-2009, 05:55 PM
I thought I knew what a good B-E should taste like until we had the pleasure of trying some at The Jack that blew our farking minds. There was zero chew and would just melt in your mouth with an explosion of beef flavor. Best I ever had. MMMMM I need some now.


It can be done for I have seen it. My opinion leans towards thinking that some people might underestimate what 'burnt' really suggests. :shock:

I think there may be some truth to that. In no way would I interpret burnt ends to be burnt. I do like the interpretation of your tasting at the Jack, "zero chew and would just melt in your mouth with an explosion of beef flavor."

Sledneck
06-10-2009, 07:13 PM
I think there may be some truth to that. In no way would I interpret burnt ends to be burnt. I do like the interpretation of your tasting at the Jack, "zero chew and would just melt in your mouth with an explosion of beef flavor."Thats it!! thats not what I am not making though:sad:

Jacked UP BBQ
06-10-2009, 08:05 PM
Sledneck my son, be one with the brisket. Rub it, tug it, smack it, poke it. Don't let the burnt ends get the best of you, get the best of them. I would say it is 100% that you are taking them from the wrong spot. I know I cannot cook but my burnt ends are awesome... Yes I said it.... awesome! I know you can cook so I cannot imagine there being any other problem...maybe its the steak sauce!!!!!

Jeff_in_KC
06-10-2009, 08:22 PM
I had this burnt end discussion with Rich and Bunny Tuttle last Saturday night. It's kinda funny actually what we're calling "burnt ends" that aren't really burnt ends at all in the true sense of the word. True "burnt ends" are the little chewy, dry pieces that fall off the brisket when the whole thing is sliced. In no way are they soft and tender chunks of brisket cubed (those are called "cubed brisket chunks"). True burnt ends (as "invented" by Arthur Bryant's) are chewy, crispy burnt little morsels (coming from flat or point) that your CBJs would HAMMER the hell out of in tenderness and appearance! I'd envision a typical score as 593 for appearance, taste and tenderness.

Butcher BBQ
06-10-2009, 08:58 PM
The real problem here is if we start to put a description on what a burnt end should be or the criteria of what it takes to be a burnt end the judging will be swayed that way. Due to the ability of mass publication on the www. This is what has happened with the bite thru skin, the perfect tenderness to ribs, to name a few. I think that the info gathered on the forums are great, but I also think we cause problems for our own good than we realize.

Dale P
06-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Hey Butchers BBQ, Hahaha, aint that the truth.
The B-E i tried were so much better then what we ever made and I can only guess at the way these were cooked. It gives me hope.

watg?
06-11-2009, 07:06 AM
I agree with some of the comments. It is well known, or at least fairly well known, what criteria a cook is after when submitting sliced brisket. When tossing burnt ends in the box for judges to try, I think unless they are those little flavor explosions mentioned earlier, you are taking a risk of getting marked down from judge to judge. Until the there is some type of criteria given to a 'burnt end', they had better be off the hook, or you might be better off leaving them out.

As for the original question how do cook them, I am still working on that and do not have an answer. Mine range from excessively chewy squares of a sauced beef product, to small chunks of coal or a petrified type substance that the dog wont even eat. Not what I would call off the hook. Back to the drawing board.

Jeff_in_KC
06-11-2009, 07:19 AM
The real problem here is if we start to put a description on what a burnt end should be or the criteria of what it takes to be a burnt end the judging will be swayed that way. Due to the ability of mass publication on the www. This is what has happened with the bite thru skin, the perfect tenderness to ribs, to name a few. I think that the info gathered on the forums are great, but I also think we cause problems for our own good than we realize.

I don't totally disagree with you but to some extent, those things are also taught during CBJ classes. When I took Ed Roith's CBJ class, I was taught the perfect tenderness of ribs (with the bite mark showing and any bone exposed turning white and no other meat coming off the bone except for the bite) and I have since been told that not ALL CBJ instructors teach this and that in fact, it was Ed who came up with that "standard" and started teaching it that way to CBJs.

Dale P
06-11-2009, 07:21 AM
Melt in your mouth is a little bit off but I think most get what Im saying. Damn good and not tough at all might be a better explanation is what i should have said. No matter, I cant make them that good anyhow.

Sledneck
06-11-2009, 07:51 AM
I agree with some of the comments. It is well known, or at least fairly well known, what criteria a cook is after when submitting sliced brisket. When tossing burnt ends in the box for judges to try, I think unless they are those little flavor explosions mentioned earlier, you are taking a risk of getting marked down from judge to judge. Until the there is some type of criteria given to a 'burnt end', they had better be off the hook, or you might be better off leaving them out.

As for the original question how do cook them, I am still working on that and do not have an answer. Mine range from excessively chewy squares of a sauced beef product, to small chunks of coal or a petrified type substance that the dog wont even eat. Not what I would call off the hook. Back to the drawing board.Thats what I have been getting

Brewmaster
06-11-2009, 08:08 AM
It is my favorite BBQ item. I cook them how I like them. I only assume the judges have similar tastes as me. I don't know.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/ngrodeon/IMG_7812.jpg

Divemaster
06-11-2009, 08:36 AM
I kind of like these...
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Divemaster_album/DSCF2509.jpg

or these...
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Divemaster_album/DSCF2250-1.jpg

Cliff H.
06-11-2009, 08:52 AM
I am wondering if the best burnt end is taken from the same spot every time. Just enough for a box. When I cube the point up, I notice that chewy and wonderful get mixed together. No consitency at all.

Seems that the ones that cook down to perfection are the ones that back up to and are intermingled with quite a bit of fat.

Big piece of fat and a small piece of meat = killer burnt ends.

watg?
06-11-2009, 08:59 AM
I kind of like these...
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Divemaster_album/DSCF2509.jpg

or these...
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Divemaster_album/DSCF2250-1.jpg



They sure look good!

CivilWarBBQ
06-11-2009, 09:06 AM
The real problem here is if we start to put a description on what a burnt end should be or the criteria of what it takes to be a burnt end the judging will be swayed that way. Due to the ability of mass publication on the www. This is what has happened with the bite thru skin, the perfect tenderness to ribs, to name a few. I think that the info gathered on the forums are great, but I also think we cause problems for our own good than we realize.

Now that was a very thoughful post, and dead on IMO. As cooks, we endlessly argue the merits of various techniques, but I don't think we realize that we are shaping judges expectations in the process.

-gf

Jacked UP BBQ
06-11-2009, 09:11 AM
I think great bunrt ends only com from two spots on the point. I can only get at the most out of a perfect brisket 8 nice size burnt ends.

Dale P
06-11-2009, 10:03 AM
All of the pics look outstanding to me. A big pile of those right now would be real nice.

Jeff_in_KC
06-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Now that was a very thoughful post, and dead on IMO. As cooks, we endlessly argue the merits of various techniques, but I don't think we realize that we are shaping judges expectations in the process.

-gf

But don't you think it's better that we shape judges expectations rather than the other way around?

Plowboy
06-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Sled, overcook them.

ique
06-11-2009, 01:59 PM
You better figure it out before going to cook the Royal :lol:

Scottie
06-11-2009, 02:44 PM
Ahhh, another hint, huh Chris... :roll:

Sledneck
06-11-2009, 03:55 PM
You better figure it out before going to cook the Royal :lol:
exactly why this started and what I had in mind after getting schooled at the GAB

Divemaster
06-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Sled, overcook them.

And then some more...

comfrank
06-12-2009, 01:34 PM
I had this burnt end discussion with Rich and Bunny Tuttle last Saturday night. It's kinda funny actually what we're calling "burnt ends" that aren't really burnt ends at all in the true sense of the word. True "burnt ends" are the little chewy, dry pieces that fall off the brisket when the whole thing is sliced. In no way are they soft and tender chunks of brisket cubed (those are called "cubed brisket chunks"). True burnt ends (as "invented" by Arthur Bryant's) are chewy, crispy burnt little morsels (coming from flat or point) that your CBJs would HAMMER the hell out of in tenderness and appearance! I'd envision a typical score as 593 for appearance, taste and tenderness.


Most of you have way more competition experience than me, but I kind of agree with this. Cubed pieces of the point are, well, cubed pieces of the point. When I cook a flat, if the middle is perfect then the narrow end will typically be overcooked. No way to slice it, but the concentration of rub and smoke makes great eating. At the Oinktoberfest last year, I coarsely chopped some of this overcooked flat and used that as my burnt ends. Got a 10th out of almost 50 teams.

--frank in Wilson, NY

Skip
06-12-2009, 02:21 PM
I'm no expert at all but I have noticed that the cooker is always too hot to make good ends or at least the tender cubes we are all looking for. Most here say that if the flat is done then the point is done. I think the flat needs less time to be coolered. I find the point always needs more time in the cooker. For me it seems that you need to stall your temp around that collagen melting point which is hard to do at a comp where your chicken and ribs need higher temps at the same time you'd be setting your burnt ends. Too hot and the temp of the meat rises into the "mush zone". If the meat can't get hotter then 190+ then you probably won't crush it. Then again I could be totally wrong because I know people do real hot and fast cooks on brisket. I just wonder if the burnt ends are cooked as hot, if they are any good or if they are "true" endz with that crispy chewy good taste.

musicmanryann
06-12-2009, 03:03 PM
I'm no expert at all but I have noticed that the cooker is always too hot to make good ends or at least the tender cubes we are all looking for. Most here say that if the flat is done then the point is done. I think the flat needs less time to be coolered. I find the point always needs more time in the cooker. For me it seems that you need to stall your temp around that collagen melting point which is hard to do at a comp where your chicken and ribs need higher temps at the same time you'd be setting your burnt ends. Too hot and the temp of the meat rises into the "mush zone". If the meat can't get hotter then 190+ then you probably won't crush it. Then again I could be totally wrong because I know people do real hot and fast cooks on brisket. I just wonder if the burnt ends are cooked as hot, if they are any good or if they are "true" endz with that crispy chewy good taste.


It's not hard if you have more than one cooker with more than one cooking temps.

River City Smokehouse
06-14-2009, 10:46 AM
The trick is.........."Irish Beer"!

Butcher BBQ
06-14-2009, 11:24 AM
The trick is.........."Irish Beer"!

What? the more you drink the better they taste.

Divemaster
06-14-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm no expert at all but I have noticed that the cooker is always too hot to make good ends or at least the tender cubes we are all looking for.

I don't know, mine turned out ok this weekend.....

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Divemaster_album/DSCF0038-1.jpg

Jacked UP BBQ
06-16-2009, 10:45 AM
here is a pic of some before I sent them back to the smoker to get RED!

Divemaster
06-16-2009, 10:57 AM
here is a pic of some before I sent them back to the smoker to get RED!
That's an idea, maybe I'll do a photo documentary for Sled this weekend...