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Ford
06-07-2009, 03:00 PM
OK people. If you wet age remember to check them once or twice a week. I figured I had 1 more week on 3 nice ones I was going to use at Auburn Hills. Went to turn them and 2 of the cryovacs had failed. Don't know why but the brisket was still good when I cut them open and checked. So they are now in the freezer and will be used next weekend. And the third one looks fine and is in the fridge for next weekend.

Always check once or twice a week just to make sure. Otherwise you can lose the meat and maybe mess up the next contest because of it.

And I have 3 very nice well aged flexible briskets for the Fort. Good eats for the bikers for sure.

The Pickled Pig
06-07-2009, 04:44 PM
Good advice.

Do you ever have problems using frozen brisket for comps Ford?

Divemaster
06-07-2009, 05:25 PM
I'm not worried....

Smokin' Joe
06-07-2009, 08:35 PM
Good advice for sure...

Paul I used to worry about freezing briskets, but I quickly grew tired of trying to find quality briskets. So this year I bought a couple of cases of high quality briskets, aged, and froze them. Used two of them so far with a 9th (out of 71) and a 3rd (out of 43) place call. If there is a big down side to previously frozen briskets I can't see it!

Just Pulin' Pork
06-07-2009, 10:54 PM
Good advice for sure...

Paul I used to worry about freezing briskets, but I quickly grew tired of trying to find quality briskets. So this year I bought a couple of cases of high quality briskets, aged, and froze them. Used two of them so far with a 9th (out of 71) and a 3rd (out of 43) place call. If there is a big down side to previously frozen briskets I can't see it!

Point well made! Nice job and thanks for posting this info.

KC_Bobby
06-07-2009, 11:14 PM
In short, the downside to freezing meat is the possibilities of molecular breakdown as the cells freeze (bust from expanding liquids), thus in theory increasing the amount of moisture loss during the cook. How much damage the freeze does? I don't know.

This is based on information I learned taking the Iowa Barbeque Society Spring Training in 08 held in the Iowa State University Meat Lab. The brisket portion was lead by Steve Bryant of Meadow Valley BBQ, he's an instructor in the Meat Lab. I think he has a Ph.D in something to do with science of livestock processing.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-08-2009, 11:16 AM
I do not wet age and never have. I am convinced that it is more risk then reward. For those who do this is good advice.

Smokin' Joe
06-08-2009, 11:34 AM
In short, the downside to freezing meat is the possibilities of molecular breakdown as the cells freeze (bust from expanding liquids), thus in theory increasing the amount of moisture loss during the cook. How much damage the freeze does? I don't know.

This is based on information I learned taking the Iowa Barbeque Society Spring Training in 08 held in the Iowa State University Meat Lab. The brisket portion was lead by Steve Bryant of Meadow Valley BBQ, he's an instructor in the Meat Lab. I think he has a Ph.D in something to do with science of livestock processing.

Good to know, interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing

Scottie
06-08-2009, 11:45 AM
I've talked with both Joe and Steve from the ISU meat labs about this topic.... I do not feel that freezing takes anything away from a brisket. I've never had one dry brisket that I cooked that was previously frozen...

The Pickled Pig
06-08-2009, 01:27 PM
Paul I used to worry about freezing briskets, but I quickly grew tired of trying to find quality briskets. So this year I bought a couple of cases of high quality briskets, aged, and froze them. Used two of them so far with a 9th (out of 71) and a 3rd (out of 43) place call. If there is a big down side to previously frozen briskets I can't see it!

I do not feel that freezing takes anything away from a brisket. I've never had one dry brisket that I cooked that was previously frozen...

Practical experience trumps theory any day of the week. I have some aged CABs in the freezer and will put this to use at this weekend's contest.Thanks guys!

musicmanryann
06-08-2009, 01:56 PM
One thing I learned from NotleyQ was to flash freeze them. The way I understand it is that this prevents the buildup of ice crystals on the surface of the meat, which is what breaks down the cells.

He told me to flash freeze them by making a brisky sandwich with two blocks of dry ice as the bread. Put the sandwich in a cooler and in about a half hour you have yourself a brisky popsickle. Then you can go ahead and throw it in the freezer. I tried it and it worked great!

Thawing properly is also important. The slower you bring it back to life, the better.

Scottie
06-08-2009, 02:01 PM
If it's properly vacuum sealed, how do ice crystals form on the meat? I'm trying to picture that one. I do agree with slow defrosting. I take mine out the Thursday (8 days) before my next contest... So they have lots of time to defrost and I can trim them without them being frozen.

Divemaster
06-08-2009, 03:32 PM
If it's properly vacuum sealed, how do ice crystals form on the meat? I'm trying to picture that one. I do agree with slow defrosting. I take mine out the Thursday (8 days) before my next contest... So they have lots of time to defrost and I can trim them without them being frozen.
Ice crystals do not require air, they require moisture. Just because there is no freezer burn doesn't mean that crystals haven't formed from the water in the blood we've all seen inside the cryo's and inside the meat and meat cell's.

Scottie
06-08-2009, 04:13 PM
So things can form in a vacuum environment? I have never seen that on any of my briskets.

KC_Bobby
06-08-2009, 04:45 PM
I wasn't trying to start a debate, just simply adding a comment as best I could recall from a class I took. I' don't even know if I agree or disagree with what I heard, I'm not educated enough in meat processing, so I figure they know what can (not necessarily will) happen a whole lot better then I.

As stated, it was based on theories and increased possiblities.

Scottie
06-08-2009, 05:09 PM
No debate. Just want folks to know that "theory" might be wrong. Dr Joe and Steve have forgotten more about meat production than I will ever learn. I also know that a frozen brisket, when cooked properly, will give you every thing you are looking for.

Divemaster
06-08-2009, 06:02 PM
I wasn't trying to start a debate, just simply adding a comment as best I could recall from a class I took. I' don't even know if I agree or disagree with what I heard, I'm not educated enough in meat processing, so I figure they know what can (not necessarily will) happen a whole lot better then I.

As stated, it was based on theories and increased possiblities.

No debate. Just want folks to know that "theory" might be wrong. Dr Joe and Steve have forgotten more about meat production than I will ever learn. I also know that a frozen brisket, when cooked properly, will give you every thing you are looking for.
I think this is one of the few times Scottie and I agree... :eek: lol...

All we were talking about is the chemistry behind freezing a brisket (and in my opinion any meat, but that can be another thread). When water is frozen, be it found in the blood out side of the meat, between the cells of the meat, or inside the cells of the meat, it is going to create crystals that can be sharp and cut the cell walls and there by break down the meat if not thawed correctly.

Now it is my understanding that no matter how the meat is thawed that there is going to be some cellular breakdown. How you thaw the meat is what is going to control the amount of that breakdown. Thaw it to quickly and the breakdown is going to be more pronounced than if it is thawed slowly.

(And as a side note... I agree with Ford too...)

The Pickled Pig
06-15-2009, 01:03 AM
For the record, we used a previosuly frozen CAB this weekend and hit 1st in brisket in a 60 team contest. Our 6 judge average score for appearance/taste/tenderness was 8.5/8.17/8.67. I don't think using frozen hurt us at all. Being able to freeze brisket for contest purposes will reduce our cost when buying by the case.

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2009raytown/~brisket.jpg

RobKC
06-15-2009, 07:04 AM
Congrats again, Paul. How long did they take to thaw?

Sledneck
06-15-2009, 08:12 AM
I know it has been discussed many times before but since we are on the topic, how many days from the kill date do you guys age?

Scottie
06-15-2009, 08:31 AM
Congrats Paul. Those are my findings as well!

I start defrosting mine the Thursday, 8 days from a contest in the fridge.

Sled, kill date and pack date are 2 different terms. I go at least 35 days from pack date. Up to 42 days, then I size and freeze.

Sledneck
06-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Congrats Paul. Those are my findings as well!

I start defrosting mine the Thursday, 8 days from a contest in the fridge.

Sled, kill date and pack date are 2 different terms. I go at least 35 days from pack date. Up to 42 days, then I size and freeze.Which date is on the outside of the case? The pack date?

Brew-B-Q
06-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Yes, the pack date is on the outside of the box.

musicmanryann
06-15-2009, 01:30 PM
I would say kill date. Maybe someone can educate me, but the only reason I can think that the kill date and pack date would be different is if there was some dry aging going on.

Scottie--what are you talking about when you say sizing? Thanks!

Scottie
06-15-2009, 01:46 PM
I don't have a 12 # brisket matched up with a 18 # brisket for a comp. I try and get them to match in size. I also keep some of the smaller one's to the side for those contests that I am getting in to later and don't have a full afternoon of prepping...

If they are too small, they go into my junk freezer and I cook them up whenever... I like to use those when I am trying a new rub.

Brew-B-Q
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
I would say kill date. Maybe someone can educate me, but the only reason I can think that the kill date and pack date would be different is if there was some dry aging going on.

I'm under the impression that once killed, they hang the animals for a couple days to allow rigor mortis to run its course.

Scottie
06-15-2009, 02:09 PM
exactly

musicmanryann
06-15-2009, 02:23 PM
Cool, thanks guys!