PDA

View Full Version : Need brisket bark!!!


nikinik
06-07-2009, 11:36 AM
I am using a bullet smoker...the "El Cheap-O" Brinkman and am having a really hard time with my bark being VERY MOIST, today it occured to me that maybe I should not use water in the water pan to decrease the moisture.
Does anyone have experience with this smoker or one like it where brisket is concerned? Or, could someone give me a tip or two as far as crisp and dry bark would be concerned?

Thanks

nikinik
06-07-2009, 12:17 PM
I think I forgot to say PLEASE...HAVE A COMPETITION NEXT WEEKEND AND THIS WILL BE OUR 2ND CRACK AT BRISKET...

Dan - 3eyzbbq
06-07-2009, 12:31 PM
If this is your second time with brisket, forget the bark. Concentrate on flavor and tenderness. Their are far worse things you can turn in then moist bark.

Just my 2 cents....

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
06-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Tell us how you are cooking the brisket. Injecting? What rub? What Temps? Foiling?

Dale P
06-07-2009, 04:34 PM
Dont feel too bad about your brisket. It took us 4 years to cook a decent one.

barbefunkoramaque
06-07-2009, 04:43 PM
You have come to the right spot....there are many artificial suggestions on here for creating a bark. Enjoy all the information coming to you.

Divemaster
06-07-2009, 09:00 PM
It's been a while (almost 20 years) since I cooked on your type of cooker... I seem to recall filling the water pan with sand rather than water...

I'm sure that some one with more current knowledge well speak up soon...

You have come to the right spot....there are many artificial suggestions on here for creating a bark. Enjoy all the information coming to you.
Be nice... Not all of us use 'artificial' means...

Meat Burner
06-07-2009, 09:33 PM
What ^^^^he said! Love this forum for all the help!

Jacked UP BBQ
06-08-2009, 08:31 AM
Bark will come from proper heat and cooking method. There is no trick to the bark, just cook it correct and it will come. 225-300 degrees until it is done and you should have a good bark, there is not magic, just patience.

ique
06-08-2009, 10:01 AM
I am using a bullet smoker...the "El Cheap-O" Brinkman and am having a really hard time with my bark being VERY MOIST, today it occured to me that maybe I should not use water in the water pan to decrease the moisture.
Does anyone have experience with this smoker or one like it where brisket is concerned? Or, could someone give me a tip or two as far as crisp and dry bark would be concerned?

Thanks

Re-apply your rub a 2nd time later in the cooking process to promote better bark

Jacked UP BBQ
06-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Re-apply your rub a 2nd time later in the cooking process to promote better bark

SHHHHHHHHHHH I had to pay for that info!!!!!:icon_shock1:

nthole
06-08-2009, 10:24 AM
In my cookers that were designed for water I'm either using sand in the pan, or a clay pot base in place of the pan. I don't like refilling the water and never found it to be beneficial to the cook. The meat has plenty of moisture as long as you cook it right.

Dcnlarry
06-08-2009, 10:53 AM
I'm going with what OC said, Bark will come from proper heat and cooking method. There is no trick to the bark, just cook it correct and it will come. 225-300 degrees until it is done and you should have a good bark, there is not magic, just patience.

My thinking is that you don't need a moister surrounding the brisket, it has plenty of moisture within. When you put moisture outside the meat, it will not allow the moisture from within the meat to surface and start to form that nice bark you seek. This is only my humble opinion, I am not a scientist, but I do know a doctor. So take it for what it's worth, and we all know what that is. Good luck with the upcoming cook.

Divemaster
06-08-2009, 12:48 PM
SHHHHHHHHHHH I had to pay for that info!!!!!:icon_shock1:
I'm guessing it wasn't enough....:lol:

barbefunkoramaque
06-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Uh,,, I was being nice. Artificial is not bad. I make some wicked mashed potatoes that everyone THINKS is completely legitimate but is actually 1/3 unpeeled potatoes and water (no salt) added to Walmarts Big Bulk Bag of Garlic Mashed potatoes. So farking what....

Artificial - People ask me all the time why my "Vanilla Custards" are so damn good... so old school... LOL Farking one bottle of almond extract in the big 120 OZ can of Vanilla pudding.... LOL

Artificial - How the hell do I make my "Moroccan Chocolate Custards" taste so uh... old worldly? I sprinkle Bootsy Collins Flakes and fresh cinnamon into the can of Chocolate pudding as I heat it up in the smoker. LOL Artificial is not a bad word... I used mustard for 12 years....oh but that was 14 years ago.

The only benefit of the legitimate bark as described below is it will not mush out from foiling or even plastic packing or resting or reheating... it just snaps to life naturally.

I resisted the technique purposely to show there are others that do it the legit way and I didn't want you getting ONLY the artificial ways... which are good too.

Bark will come from proper heat and cooking method. There is no trick to the bark, just cook it correct and it will come. 225-300 degrees until it is done and you should have a good bark, there is not magic, just patience.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
06-08-2009, 02:14 PM
OK, I can't take it anymore. What are the artificial means for building bark?

Brew-B-Q
06-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Speaking of bark, does anyone rest their briskets fat cap up in the cooler? I thought I read somewhere that's what Ray Lampe does. I've never tried it since I figured all the rub would wash away, but it is appealing since more of the flat would be in the juices. Lately, my bark has resembled mush because my briskets keep cooking so fast and have to camp out foiled in my cooler forever, so I guess it really wouldn't matter.

barbefunkoramaque
06-08-2009, 02:34 PM
OK, I can't take it anymore. What are the artificial means for building bark?

All the Innovative ways people have come up with making bark on their meats outside of the simple Salt + Meat + heat + time = Bark. I think some of them are cool. And years and years ago, when there was no internet, BBQ, esp competition BBQ was taught face to face. The internet and the new techniques that have arisen in order to teach it to people without the benefit of touch, smell, taste, look and even sound... have made new methods. Thing is... most everyone is now using those methods, which make the old methods... well, less utilized on the circuits. It is easier to think you can mix up something that will make your bark better than learn a technique.

Its a big business...and the economic forces in control know they can simply make quicker coin by persuading a greenpea to buy a "secret concoction of spices" or Rubbs or injections other than learn the technique. Don't believe me... google the amount of Rubbs available and compare them to DVDs that teach you the techniques for sale.

Eventually, it comes down to technique... you have to learn those skills sometime... its unfortunate that now that usually comes after wasting tons of meat. I leraned it, forgot it or rejected itm then had to learn all over again.

Take me for example, trained by arguably the best in the biz... then I broke away... tried to mix things up... create too complex a rub, lower my temps too much, and was somewhat lost to the art for a period of years. Then one day I was showing a friend how the old schoolers used to make it and realized, hey... no one hardly cooks like this anymore... the Billy Walls are slowing down, the Milroys, all of them... slowing down, well maybe not Bill and Barb but mostly to promote their sauces. Bill's ribs are stupid simple and I think some of the best.

Anyway... had to come back. I thought I had nothing to offer in pushing the envelope for all those years only to find that I am pushing the envelope by seemingly not doing anything ground-breaking.

I liken it to - well - watching Bryan Setzer or Prince perform these days. So... my artifical comment was a compliment... frankly, if we stuck only to traditional recipes, we would simply not need the forum at all... someone could post "use salt, pepper and 270 or above" and that would be it.

But we all know from my videos that I don't JUST use salt and pepper. Hee hee hee. Even I can't resist.

ique
06-08-2009, 03:07 PM
OK, I can't take it anymore. What are the artificial means for building bark?


someone could post "use salt, pepper and 270 or above" and that would be it.


I get that this is the natural way of producing bark. Still not clear on what the artificial means are?

Divemaster
06-08-2009, 03:10 PM
Uh,,, I was being nice. Artificial is not bad. I make some wicked mashed potatoes that everyone THINKS is completely legitimate but is actually 1/3 unpeeled potatoes and water (no salt) added to Walmarts Big Bulk Bag of Garlic Mashed potatoes. So farking what....

Artificial - People ask me all the time why my "Vanilla Custards" are so damn good... so old school... LOL Farking one bottle of almond extract in the big 120 OZ can of Vanilla pudding.... LOL

Artificial - How the hell do I make my "Moroccan Chocolate Custards" taste so uh... old worldly? I sprinkle Bootsy Collins Flakes and fresh cinnamon into the can of Chocolate pudding as I heat it up in the smoker. LOL Artificial is not a bad word... I used mustard for 12 years....oh but that was 14 years ago.

The only benefit of the legitimate bark as described below is it will not mush out from foiling or even plastic packing or resting or reheating... it just snaps to life naturally.

I resisted the technique purposely to show there are others that do it the legit way and I didn't want you getting ONLY the artificial ways... which are good too.

All the Innovative ways people have come up with making bark on their meats outside of the simple Salt + Meat + heat + time = Bark. I think some of them are cool. And years and years ago, when there was no internet, BBQ, esp competition BBQ was taught face to face. The internet and the new techniques that have arisen in order to teach it to people without the benefit of touch, smell, taste, look and even sound... have made new methods. Thing is... most everyone is now using those methods, which make the old methods... well, less utilized on the circuits. It is easier to think you can mix up something that will make your bark better than learn a technique.

Its a big business...and the economic forces in control know they can simply make quicker coin by persuading a greenpea to buy a "secret concoction of spices" or Rubbs or injections other than learn the technique. Don't believe me... google the amount of Rubbs available and compare them to DVDs that teach you the techniques for sale.

Eventually, it comes down to technique... you have to learn those skills sometime... its unfortunate that now that usually comes after wasting tons of meat. I leraned it, forgot it or rejected itm then had to learn all over again.

Take me for example, trained by arguably the best in the biz... then I broke away... tried to mix things up... create too complex a rub, lower my temps too much, and was somewhat lost to the art for a period of years. Then one day I was showing a friend how the old schoolers used to make it and realized, hey... no one hardly cooks like this anymore... the Billy Walls are slowing down, the Milroys, all of them... slowing down, well maybe not Bill and Barb but mostly to promote their sauces. Bill's ribs are stupid simple and I think some of the best.

Anyway... had to come back. I thought I had nothing to offer in pushing the envelope for all those years only to find that I am pushing the envelope by seemingly not doing anything ground-breaking.

I liken it to - well - watching Bryan Setzer or Prince perform these days. So... my artifical comment was a compliment... frankly, if we stuck only to traditional recipes, we would simply not need the forum at all... someone could post "use salt, pepper and 270 or above" and that would be it.

But we all know from my videos that I don't JUST use salt and pepper. Hee hee hee. Even I can't resist.


Donny, it is I who must appologize... I thought for a moment that the old, evil Donny had once again returned...

I'm sorry my friend....

WineMaster
06-08-2009, 03:27 PM
All the Innovative ways people have come up with making bark on their meats outside of the simple Salt + Meat + heat + time = Bark. I think some of them are cool. And years and years ago, when there was no internet, BBQ, esp competition BBQ was taught face to face. The internet and the new techniques that have arisen in order to teach it to people without the benefit of touch, smell, taste, look and even sound... have made new methods. Thing is... most everyone is now using those methods, which make the old methods... well, less utilized on the circuits. It is easier to think you can mix up something that will make your bark better than learn a technique.

Its a big business...and the economic forces in control know they can simply make quicker coin by persuading a greenpea to buy a "secret concoction of spices" or Rubbs or injections other than learn the technique. Don't believe me... google the amount of Rubbs available and compare them to DVDs that teach you the techniques for sale.

Eventually, it comes down to technique... you have to learn those skills sometime... its unfortunate that now that usually comes after wasting tons of meat. I leraned it, forgot it or rejected itm then had to learn all over again.

Take me for example, trained by arguably the best in the biz... then I broke away... tried to mix things up... create too complex a rub, lower my temps too much, and was somewhat lost to the art for a period of years. Then one day I was showing a friend how the old schoolers used to make it and realized, hey... no one hardly cooks like this anymore... the Billy Walls are slowing down, the Milroys, all of them... slowing down, well maybe not Bill and Barb but mostly to promote their sauces. Bill's ribs are stupid simple and I think some of the best.

Anyway... had to come back. I thought I had nothing to offer in pushing the envelope for all those years only to find that I am pushing the envelope by seemingly not doing anything ground-breaking.

I liken it to - well - watching Bryan Setzer or Prince perform these days. So... my artifical comment was a compliment... frankly, if we stuck only to traditional recipes, we would simply not need the forum at all... someone could post "use salt, pepper and 270 or above" and that would be it.

But we all know from my videos that I don't JUST use salt and pepper. Hee hee hee. Even I can't resist.

This reminds me of the movie Billy Madison.

barbefunkoramaque
06-08-2009, 04:52 PM
in brisket - anything other than

dry heat + Salt* + Time

* sugar is not really a bark aid even though it burns and makes a black crust
and notice I said Dry Heat - no wrapping


I am not excluding spices but Salt carries those flavors in and there is a myriad of spices to use so I omitted them. How these spices tend to burn or crust also is not considered bark... but they can be interesting and delicious as well as win contests so I am not knocking them either.

I can put it this way... we all know that many of the traditional resturants that have been serving brisket for eons do not use foil. BUT in competition where every fraction matters sometimes you have to reach for it... but by using it... you sacrifice the bark UNLESS you create it some other way... thereby through innovation you arrive at something like the same thing... which... for the most part few judges care about because they are judging by the cubic inch and not the whole thing.

That would be cool huh? a brisket judged by the WHOLE brisket wrapped in butcher paper with no garnish. Every judge would get their favorite piece. It would be neat to watch too... 6 or so pairs of hands tearing apart your sample. Of course then the last guys would suffer because the judges were full. LOL

Once again... like the fly said walking over the mirror, that's one way of looking at it.

nikinik
06-08-2009, 06:21 PM
We are using a marinade and also injecting it...we make our own rub...i try to keep it between 225-250 for the first five hours, then wrapped it in foil and used a mop for a crutch for another 3 hours to get the internal temp up to 195 then took out the mop juice and wrapped it again and let it sit in a cooler for 2-4 hours...the taste was awesome, it was tender but could have been more tender and the bark was soft. I am thinking of trying to keep the temp lower like 225 and cook it longer but it is so hard to keep the temp the same with my grill...someone also mentioned that when i wrap it in foil to kick up the temp to 300, it didn't do that.

barbefunkoramaque
06-08-2009, 06:45 PM
nix the marinade, bump the temp, use your rub (only as much as the meat will hold naturally without any slurry) but add a large grained salt (lots of it) just before you plop it on the grill, do not mop, do not foil, try fat down, nix the foil and instead simply pan fat side up (maybe some beer but not needed) and you will have a true bark that incidentally will not suffer much from wrapping and resting, vacuum packing, freezing or reheating. Oh and ignore internal temps... brisket is done by feel. I have seen 165 and 195 with the same tender flats


That's my 4 cents.