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View Full Version : NEBS/Carolyn Wells KCBS meeting 3/26


Sledneck
04-26-2009, 12:25 PM
http://www.nebs.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=2

Very interesting

BigBarry
04-26-2009, 12:26 PM
Grilling Illuminati?

Jeff Hughes
04-26-2009, 12:43 PM
I suspect this will be a good thing...

motoeric
04-26-2009, 07:30 PM
So, it's 8:30. What were the results of the meeting?

Eric

motoeric
04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
So, no update?

These BBQ organizations are so secretive!!

Eric

lunchlady
04-27-2009, 03:26 PM
secretive is not correct... waiting patiently is better.

As posted on the New England BBQ Yahoo group, we presented our concerns to Carolyn Wells. She will, in turn, present a synopsis of her visit to the KCBS BoD. That won't happen until their monthly meeting in May.

Nothing was actually resolved, so there aren't any results to report... it's a game of wait and see.

pigmaker23
04-27-2009, 03:49 PM
How about posting the questions that were discussed at the open meeting yesteday, (and lack of responses from Carolyn) that were presented by the NEBS board to her. its my understanding that she offered no anwsers with regard to the charges as presented. it is unfortunate that Ken and Kathie have to wait 2-3 more weeks just to see if this totally unfounded accusation is resolved or not. The handling of this situation needs to be ultra transparent to the members of both NEBS and KCBS unlike the way KCBS has handled it to date.

Transformer BBQ
04-27-2009, 08:47 PM
It was a BOD meeting for NEBS, so once the notes are typed up by the recording secretary, and approved by the board. They will be available for anyone who is a NEBS member.

I wasn't secretive, and was open to anyone who wished to attend. But as said before we presented our concerns to CW, and had a productive conversation, outlining how everyone has ended up in the current situation.

Hopefully with everything laid out on the table things will be resolved, and NEBS can continue to work with KCBS as we have for a long time.

BogsBBQ
04-27-2009, 08:51 PM
These BBQ organizations are so secretive!!


I feel just the opposite about NEBS. I'm not on the NEBS BOD, but I've been to the last 7+ montly meetings. During that time, they have never had an "executive session" where they have asked me to leave or step into another room so they can meet in private. They always open up their meetings to regular ole dues paying NEBS members like me...as they did this past Sunday.

Your comment may have been in jest, but I think the word "organizations" should be singular rather than plural and be applied to a society in the middle of the country. :eek:

Jared

SmokeInDaEye
04-27-2009, 09:12 PM
I feel just the opposite about NEBS. I'm not on the NEBS BOD, but I've been to the last 7+ montly meetings. During that time, they have never had an "executive session" where they have asked me to leave or step into another room so they can meet in private. They always open up their meetings to regular ole dues paying NEBS members like me...as they did this past Sunday.

Your comment may have been in jest, but I think the word "organizations" should be singular rather than plural and be applied to a society in the middle of the country. :eek:

Jared

Sorry, Jared. I think it was meant in jest as you suggested.

BogsBBQ
04-28-2009, 06:34 AM
Sorry, Jared. I think it was meant in jest as you suggested.

Yeah. Forgive my touchiness when it comes to lumping the two together.

Jared

Divemaster
04-28-2009, 10:26 AM
I would love to know what is going on but not being a member of NEBS, I get:

You are not authorised to view this resource.
You need to login.

I can't read it... could some one fill me in?

Merl
04-28-2009, 10:41 AM
I do not know what the mystery is. There is a single issue. Either be sanctioned or licences, or in the alternative use your own rules. Not the I. P. of another organization. We have asked others to change rules as to not use the I.p. Pf KCbS, Without issue. Someone is trying to create an issue where there should not be one.
Merl

Q Haven
04-28-2009, 11:18 AM
I would love to know what is going on but not being a member of NEBS, I get:

You are not authorised to view this resource.
You need to login.

I can't read it... could some one fill me in?

The members only section of the NEBS web site is not up and running yet. That is why you are getting that message. The web site is still a work in progress.

Jorge
04-28-2009, 11:24 AM
Moderators Note:There are people serving on the BoD of both KCBS and NEBS that I consider to be friends. There are also people that have weighed in on this issue, in other threads, that I consider to be friends as well. I hope that everyone will stick to the facts, as they know them and not speculate wildly.

As with any other topic that has the potential to become a heated debate....it will continue as long as the participants can remain civil.

ihbobry
04-28-2009, 11:37 AM
Not the I. P. of another organization. ...

... Someone is trying to create an issue where there should not be one.

Merl

Totally been an observer until now but, the questions being asked by interested and active members of both organizations that are not directly involved while holding a stake in the issue as competitors and organizers; are two fold:

What is the specific Intellectual Property (properties) in question in this action?

and

What was the process/background/precident for the levy against the reps?

It may only be "I.P." issues to the KCBS but, it's the reputation of my reps and friends to me.

Those are the "issues" the KCBS created by not communicating clearly to it's members.

Diva
04-28-2009, 12:09 PM
Totally been an observer until now but, the questions being asked by interested and active members of both organizations that are not directly involved while holding a stake in the issue as competitors and organizers; are two fold:

What is the specific Intellectual Property (properties) in question in this action?

and

What was the process/background/precident for the levy against the reps?

It may only "I.P." issues to the KCBS but, it's the reputation of my reps and friends to me.

Those are the "issues" the KCBS created by not communicating clearly to it's members.

Eloquently written.

backyardchef
04-28-2009, 12:19 PM
I do not know what the mystery is. There is a single issue. Either be sanctioned or licences, or in the alternative use your own rules. Not the I. P. of another organization. We have asked others to change rules as to not use the I.p. Pf KCbS, Without issue. Someone is trying to create an issue where there should not be one.
Merl

To me, Merl, as someone peripherally involved, there are separate 'issues' from the I.P.-- the dismissal of reps with little explanation other than the vaguest of explanation, and the manner in which KCBS addressed the supposed infringement of I.P.

As someone involved with a contest that was 'targeted' I can tell you that there was NOT clear, timely communication from KCBS regarding the issues-- and once contacted they did not detail the supposed 'infractions.' Not only that, this was our 4th year as a grilling contest and the communication referred to us a 1st/2nd year event.

Perhaps the licensing side of things can be as well thought out and explained 'transparently' so that the process is more accessible to organizers. That could go a long way to clearing the air and making it seem less like KCBS is trying to bully people.

Please take this in the spirit intended-- not meant to be hostile, just clarifiying that this goes beyond the I.P. issue.

motoeric
04-28-2009, 12:25 PM
There is a single issue. Either be sanctioned or licences, or in the alternative use your own rules. Not the I. P. of another organization.
Merl

Merl,

To help with this discussion and for the sake of event organizers in general, can you please list what the KCBS claims to be their intellectual property?

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8) The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric

Cue's Your Daddy
04-28-2009, 12:44 PM
Here is a question: Is it better for people to start moving away from the KCBS and running contests using other organizations. I do not know the whole story but why does NEBS only sponsor grilling Events. Why cant they sponsor whole contests. What are the benefits of having KCBS sponsor an event. Is it just for team of the year status. Or what if a new organization is started, i.e willies idea of the Big East BBQ society. The florida BBQ association seems to be doing okay. This might be the stupidest thing that someone could say, but does it make any sense.

Jorge
04-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Merl,

To help with this discussion and for the sake of event organizers in general, can you please list what the KCBS claims to be their intellectual property?

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8) The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric

This would be a great place to ask that question: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=51

It's a legitimate question. Without knowing the details of the specific issue(s) pertaining to this thread, it may be more appropriate to pose the question there.

motoeric
04-28-2009, 01:09 PM
Here is a question: Is it better for people to start moving away from the KCBS and running contests using other organizations.

Due to the nature of the current discussion, it is easy to portray the KCBS in a negative light. As is the case in almost all situations, people rarely comment on the positive and highlight the negative.

It should be noted that the KCBS (from my perspective) is very, very good at what they do. I have worked with a number of KCBS Representatives and have never had a problem. Not once. The KCBS representatives (lower case) that I have dealt with have all been friendly, proactive and extremely professional.

For organizers, they are a blessing. You can almost literally turn over an entire segment of the event to them and be confident that it will be run smoothly and well. This leaves you the latitude to oversee things and concentrate on different aspects of the event (or even walk around and enjoy yourself for a few minutes).

Currently, the only reason I would not use the KCBS would be for expense reasons for small events.

Eric

Transformer BBQ
04-28-2009, 01:41 PM
I think some these questions are getting away from the original topic of this thread, and may be better served in a separate thread.

The point of the meeting was to lay out the original timeline of events, and express our concern over multiple issues. Including resolving the IP issues (and why the issues arose), addressing communication between the two boards, which have worked together for a long time, and to make sure issues don't arise in the future. This also included discussions on misinformation that has floated around, and resolving the actual facts of the situation.

There were a few take aways from the meeting including a written account of events that will be approved by the NEBS board and will presented by CW at the next KCBS BOD's meeting.

Both CW as well as the NEBS' BOD expressed their interest in resolving the issues in a adult fashion, and continuing to both work to support bbq in the Northeast. Something that was also shown by the volunteer work by NEBS individuals in support of the KCBS CBJ class that was held this past weekend while these discussions are still in progress.

And... sort of unrelated. The reason you get an error is the post was taken down from the website. It simply read that the NEBS Board of Directors was meeting with Carolyn to discuss some of the issues, it listed the time and place of the meeting.

ique
04-28-2009, 03:10 PM
I do not know what the mystery is. There is a single issue. Either be sanctioned or licences, or in the alternative use your own rules. Not the I. P. of another organization. We have asked others to change rules as to not use the I.p. Pf KCbS, Without issue. Someone is trying to create an issue where there should not be one.
Merl

As a NEBS member and someone who was on the NEBS grilling rules committee I have no issue with KCBS concern around IP.

My issue is the way KCBS handled it. NEBS has been working with KCBS for at least 15 years. Given that relationship I would expect the powers that be
to spend time talking about it and working it out. Instead we were blind- sided with two of our most valued members fired.

Scottie
04-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Bingo Chris. While I'm not going to get into a disertation on the whole topic, I just am not sure if 'friends' should treat 'friends' this way...

So thank you for a little history on the subject matter.