PDA

View Full Version : Kc...bs


nancee
04-14-2009, 01:12 PM
That was not the original title for this thread...I think you guys can figure it out

KCBS Fires New England Area Reps

The KCBS Board of Directors made the determination to remove Ken and
Kathy Dakai as KCBS Reps and Ken as a CBJ instructor. The reason was
listed on the KCBS Quick Notes from the Board 4/8/09 and was stated
as: involved for conduct unbecoming the best interest of KCBS. This
info can be found on the KCBS web site. Hopefully the upcoming minutes
from that meeting will shed more light on the situation. Because, for
the moment, it's a decision that is leaving many in the dark.

nancee
04-14-2009, 01:14 PM
BTW...thanks to Mike and Brendan for sharing this lastest bit of board insanity
They wrote it, not me...

Scottie
04-14-2009, 01:32 PM
I think the KCBS BOD should revise our purpose for the KCBS then.

"THE KANSAS CITY BARBEQUE SOCIETY (KCBS), a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting and enjoying barbeque, is the world's largest organization of barbeque and grilling enthusiasts with over 8,000 members worldwide."

There should be an insert to that statement... Only if it's a KCBS promotion and we get our cut...

As a KCBS member, I am saddened by this. We, KCBS, can rid of trusted and respected reps.... who is next?

Scottie Johnson
KCBS # 7644

BogsBBQ
04-14-2009, 02:35 PM
There are a lot of people waiting to hear why the leaders of KCBS did this. They act on behalf of all KCBS members, so I think we deserve to hear why two of the most respected contest reps needed to be *removed*.

MilitantSquatter
04-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Is this is related to the recent round of cease & desist letters issued by KCBS to various organizers of non-santioned events (some of which were grilling only) and perceived to be infringing on "KCBS-style" ? Not saying they were wrong, but the approach, severity and timing seem to be questionable at the very least.

I guess if your a rep, your not allowed to be affiliated with anything other than KCBS. Who knows, next thing they may require that if you are a registered KCBS team you won't be allowed to participate in any non-sanctioned events.

SmokeInDaEye
04-14-2009, 08:05 PM
From the minutes. Like Vinny, I'd wove to hear what constitutes KCBS style.

Merl Whitebook presented the issue of the appropriate response to contests which utilize KCBS’s Intellectual Property. The Board discussed the many vehicles to access KCBS including:
Sanctioning (Traditional KCBS 4 meat contests)
Competitive Series (Non Traditional, i.e. LP Que)
1st Time Licensed Contest (No State Championship)
Non-traditional one day contest. (grilling contests)

The Board is working hard to make available the “KCBS Style” of contest to every type of BBQ competition. KCBS would like to extend every opportunity for all types of contests to come under the KCBS network. However the Board has determined, it will not allow unauthorized use of intellectual property for those whom are not a KCBS contest.

Contest Rep Committee Carol Whitebook
The Board discussed the conduct of Contest Reps and made a determination to remove the Contest Reps involved for conduct unbecoming the best interest of KCBS.

MilitantSquatter
04-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Ughh...


The way this legal fiasco can play out makes you think that the KCBS scoring system, judges card and judges paper plate are so advanced that no one else could conceive of such a complex process to rate BBQ meat. Wonder how far "intellectual property" extends in the eyes of KCBS.. does that include turn-in times, double-blind juding process etc. ?

"Non-traditional one day contest (grilling contests)"

Looks like aside from preventing useage of KCBS material (which is certainly justified), they just want a cut to make anything related to outdoor cooking competions KCBS sanctioned.. assuming that every organizer wants their event sanctioned.

nthole
04-14-2009, 08:24 PM
Sounds to me like KCBS now wants a cut of everything contest and meat related. Hope they don't send Food Network a cease and desist for any of their competitions that include any sort of outdoor cooking and judging that isn't KCBS.

What bullspit. For some places being 'KCBS sanctioned' isn't that important, or worth the money. But they idea that KCBS invented the ability to judge BBQ is laughable. They'd get their azzes handed to them in court if they tried to sue based on their logic. Their attempting to copyright the 'idea' that food can be judged?

MilitantSquatter
04-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Their attempting to copyright the 'idea' that food can be judged?

Maybe just on a scale of 2-9 when presented in sytrofoam boxes and layed out on slightly waxed paper with 6 boxes on it.

HoDeDo
04-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Ughh...


The way this legal fiasco can play out makes you think that the KCBS scoring system, judges card and judges paper plate are so advanced that no one else could conceive of such a complex process to rate BBQ meat. Wonder how far "intellectual property" extends in the eyes of KCBS.. does that include turn-in times, double-blind juding process etc. ?

"Non-traditional one day contest (grilling contests)"

Looks like aside from preventing useage of KCBS material (which is certainly justified), they just want a cut to make anything related to outdoor cooking competions KCBS sanctioned.. assuming that every organizer wants their event sanctioned.


I would think it is a slippery slope. KCBS offers sanctioning to all kinds of events... But if something does not want "sanctioning" -- It is the judging, process and reps, etc that make it a KCBS event. Judging food and scoring it... done by random folks, and not trying to gain any points, etc... I think it is tough to say you are infringing. I would think the events rules would play into it -- are they the same as the KCBS rules? Very interesting stuff.

watertowerbbq
04-14-2009, 08:40 PM
It sounds like they may have used the software to help score in a non-sanctioned event?

If that is the case, I think it would warrant a warning and a letter to all KCBS reps about not letting this happen again. If it's happened repeatedly then maybe the punishment is justified.

motoeric
04-14-2009, 08:47 PM
I think that it would be reasonable to reserve judgment on this until we either have more information or come to the conclusion that no more information will be forthcoming.

It would safe to assume that the problem is not just that Ken and Kathy are associated with NEBS while also being KCBS reps. Ken and Kathy carefully avoided attending and/or repping events that they were scheduled for that were not KCBS sanctioned. In addition, the Lovely's are also associated with NEBS while being KCBS reps.

It may be prudent to hold off on passing judgement until all the facts are in.

Unfortunately, the KCBS would probably be wise to NOT publically state why they are removing Ken and Kathy from the rosters of Reps. That is certainly the recommendation of any competent employment lawyer when offering counsel regarding former employees. Actually, if they are concerned about the possibility of a lawsuit they may have an obligation to the organization and membership to NOT make any information public.

In the meantime, I have helped to organize two events that Ken and Kathy helped at and they could not have been more dillegent, proactive and helpful.

I sincerly hope that this is resolved as quickly as possible.

Eric

MilitantSquatter
04-14-2009, 08:52 PM
Maybe this type of stuff will drive organizations like the NFL to examine the various local weekend warrior flag football leagues for using a four quarter system using a timer and allocating 6 pts for touchdowns as officiated by a referree :biggrin:

YankeeBBQ
04-14-2009, 08:58 PM
It sounds like they may have used the software to help score in a non-sanctioned event?

If that is the case, I think it would warrant a warning and a letter to all KCBS reps about not letting this happen again. If it's happened repeatedly then maybe the punishment is justified.

This in NOT correct. I have first hand knowledge of this.

BBQ Grail
04-14-2009, 09:02 PM
Are KCBS Reps paid employees?

If so, then this is a personel matter and the employer has an obligation to NOT make the reasons for dismissal public.

If the reps wish to speak out, they can, but KCBS shouldn't.

HoDeDo
04-14-2009, 09:08 PM
I guess I'd like to hear more about the 'why". That is a good point... we don't know what the circumstances are around this...

Plowboy
04-14-2009, 09:41 PM
I think it would warrant a warning and a letter to all KCBS reps about not letting this happen again. If it's happened repeatedly then maybe the punishment is justified.


In general, I'm for KCBS protecting its IP. I think some areas are very specific and some areas are general. IP is always a legal battle sorting the two out. No matter how you slice it, KCBS IP is an ugly topic.

I don't know what went on and reserve judgement on the reps or KCBS until I know more. I know many of you in the NE personally and do trust in your belief that this was unfortunate. I agree with WaterTowerBBQ that a lesser punishment could have been the first step if one was needed at all.

Steve - Were these the people at our table at the KCBS banquet?

lunchlady
04-14-2009, 09:50 PM
Hi Todd,
Gary and I were at your table in Nashville(lunchmeat), as well as Don and Leslie Lovely. NEBS sends BoD members every year to the Annual KCBS Banquet, wherever it may be. It was a pleasure to meet you.

Plowboy
04-14-2009, 09:51 PM
Hi Todd,
Gary and I were at your table in Nashville(lunchmeat), as well as Don and Leslie Lovely. NEBS sends BoD members every year to the Annual KCBS Banquet, wherever it may be. It was a pleasure to meet you.

:lol: I remember you guys. It was the Lovely's!!!! Thanks. Good people.

Diva
04-14-2009, 11:03 PM
I believe it will be VERY interesting to learn 'why' the Dakais were ''let go''. Thing is.....to err is human. Whatever it is/was, I'm pretty sure was not intentional. But, hey, that's just my uninformed 'take' on the situation (having known Ken for over ELEVEN YEARS).In the words of the Beatles.....I've gotta feeeeeelin'!

Sawdustguy
04-15-2009, 08:26 AM
I am very surprised that the KCBS has taken this to the next level. My gut feeling is that this can only result in a black eye for the organization and alienate the membership in the northeast. I wonder if the KCBS will try to go after other organizations like MABA, FBA etc. I hope the board members carefully considered the ramifications of these actions before acting because I am afraid they have just opened a Pandors's Box that could cost them dearly. I felt it was only a matter of time before the KCBS decided to flex their muscles. As with any organization who has grown very large in a relatively short amount of time, mistakes are made and unfortunately this one will only serve to damage their credibility and reputation.

Dale P
04-15-2009, 01:13 PM
I didnt know the Reps but I can see why people are upset. If the Reps from my region was suddenly dismissed we wouldnt be very happy without knowing the reason. After a few comps, you get to know these people and certainly try to become friends.

Bill The Grill Guy
04-16-2009, 08:43 AM
As a contest organizer I will say that our first year we were "unsanctioned" but ran the event as though it was a KCBS event. We even had KCBS reps helping and KCBS judges judging. How ever my rep did pursue the "KCBS license". Which ment we were not sanctioned but had the blessings of KCBS. I personally didnt think that we needed it. We met the requirements of The Jack Daniels and had a Governors Proclimaiton. There is software on the net that is downloadable for scoring a contest. As a member of the Mid Atlantic Barbeque Association I am very worried about this and look forward to seeing some kind of explanation.

www.queandcruz.com

Ford
04-17-2009, 10:01 AM
This in NOT correct. I have first hand knowledge of this.
So what is the issue?

Sledneck
04-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Hmmmm KCBS Illuminati

A secret sauce does exist!!!

YankeeBBQ
05-14-2009, 09:24 AM
The KCBS BOD did the right thing and Reinstated Ken and Kathy Dakai as Reps and Ken as a CBJ instructor. I'm still not sure what led to their dismissal in the first place but I'm glad the issue was resolved. I guess the KCBS BOD isn't all bad.

Sledneck
05-14-2009, 09:31 AM
Bravo!!

Jorge
05-14-2009, 09:41 AM
The KCBS BOD did the right thing and Reinstated Ken and Kathy Dakai as Reps and Ken as a CBJ instructor. I'm still not sure what led to their dismissal in the first place but I'm glad the issue was resolved. I guess the KCBS BOD isn't all bad.

You're going to have to work to come up with new, and interesting, sigs now:lol:

Scottie
05-14-2009, 09:46 AM
A new sig? I am having a hard enough time keeping up with his avatar...

Glad this issue was resolved.

WannaBeBBQueen
05-14-2009, 10:01 AM
Excellent news!!

Westexbbq
05-14-2009, 10:59 AM
Good to hear, thanks for the update and glad things worked out the right way.

Sledneck
05-14-2009, 12:28 PM
I wonder if KCBS will issue an apology? :roll:

pigmaker23
05-15-2009, 07:22 AM
he he you funny man.....



I wonder if KCBS will issue an apology? :roll:

ZILLA
05-15-2009, 09:38 PM
In the past I had fleeting thoughts that one nationwide organization for BBQ would be great! Merging the IBCA, KCBS, and all the others smaller groups. However, after reading this pathetic story as well as the others concerning IP, I think I'll stay here and BBQ in little ole Texas with our little ole Texas Gulf Coast organization. KC....BS is right. Ya know we have plenty of room down here for visiting teams.

smoke-n-my-i's
05-16-2009, 06:45 PM
I think the KCBS BOD should revise our purpose for the KCBS then.

"THE KANSAS CITY BARBEQUE SOCIETY (KCBS), a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting and enjoying barbeque, is the world's largest organization of barbeque and grilling enthusiasts with over 8,000 members worldwide."

There should be an insert to that statement... Only if it's a KCBS promotion and we get our cut...

As a KCBS member, I am saddened by this. We, KCBS, can rid of trusted and respected reps.... who is next?

Scottie Johnson
KCBS # 7644

Scotty,

I highlighted a couple of areas I thought was interesting.

Here is what was on their website on 5-14-2007:


What is the Kansas City Barbeque Society?
The Kansas City Barbeque Society (KCBS), with over 6,000 members world-wide, is the world’s largest organization of barbecue and grilling enthusiasts.
KCBS is a nonprofit organization dedicated to "promoting barbeque and having fun while doing so."
KCBS sanctions more than two hundred barbecue contests across the U.S. each year and offers assistance to civic and charitable organizations with producing these events.
Sponsors and Cookers know a competition will be officiated fairly when sanctioned by KCBS Rules and Regulations.
KCBS serves as a clearinghouse of barbecue information which provides


Networking with related trade associations and other contest-sanctioning organizations
Tracking trends in barbecue related products, and equipment
Teaming up with other food organizations and the media to promote barbecue

With our library, and extensive archive of barbecue related articles, KCBS offers educational programs, consultation services, and civic organization presentations to help spread the gospel of barbecue.
The mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbecue as a culinary technique, sport and art form.
Our goal is to have barbecue recognized as America's Cuisine.


Bill

gordo
05-17-2009, 06:23 PM
In the past I had fleeting thoughts that one nationwide organization for BBQ would be great! Merging the IBCA, KCBS, and all the others smaller groups. However, after reading this pathetic story as well as the others concerning IP, I think I'll stay here and BBQ in little ole Texas with our little ole Texas Gulf Coast organization. KC....BS is right. Ya know we have plenty of room down here for visiting teams.

Agree Zilla..!! makes me more thankful we have straight forward rules
to play by, and can just go cook BBQ..and have fun..:-D