The turn-in window

[watg?]

In a KCBS contest, you have a 10 minute window to turn in your entry. In the past, I am just happy to get the box to the judges table within the allotted time period. The question is am I missing something here? Is there any advantage to getting the submission in early, late, in the middle, IF you have an option? Does it matter at all? Has anyone ever tracked their turn in time and its relationship to their results? Which section of the window do you think gives you the best advantage or the most disadvantage? Judges, what do you think?
Am I nuts, and or am I over-thinking this issue???(again:shock:)

[Big George's BBQ]

I have heard towards the end so hopefully your food will be warmer

[musicmanryann]

I have heard towards the end so hopefully your food will be warmer

I agree that it is important to provide the warmest food possible to the judges.

[RangerJ]

I competed in my first event recently and while it was IBCA and not KCBS, I did look around and notice that all the top teams, hit the turn in just prior to closing.

Being the new guy, I did not ask why, I just observed and my guess would be temp and to prevent drying out.

Makes sense and I'll not be the first one to turn in at the next event.

[Kristin Meredith]

In every event I have judged, the only meat that is even patially warm is the chicken. If you have ever judged, you will understand why. First, your boxes are delivered and sorted and then taken to the table for viewing. Next, the box is opened and all the judges get a chance to take a good look to judge on appearance. Stuff is already getting cold. Then each judge takes a piece and puts on their judging mat. They repeat this process six times before they take the first bit. Anything sitting on that judging mat for that long, except for a thigh, is cold. I think the winning teams know their entries will be tasted virtually cold and select a flavor profile accordingly.

[Finney]

Hitting the end of the window doesn't ensure that your entry will get to the table in any more a timely fashion than an early one. It all depends on the check-in staff, box runners and table captains.

[Just Pulin' Pork]

If your a good cook then you have nothing to worry about. Take that 10 minute window and figure it into your cooking schedule!

[Meat Burner]

Hitting the end of the window doesn't ensure that your entry will get to the table in any more a timely fashion than an early one. It all depends on the check-in staff, box runners and table captains.
There you have it!

[cmcadams]

when judging, I've noticed that they get the entries to tables as quickly as they can, so the ones that come in first are generally to tables in a decent time, though I don't think I want to be the absolute first entry there.

[KC_Bobby]

I like to hit the early side of the window. Why? because that means I had time to get the box to look the way I wanted it without rushing.

I've only judged a handful of times, but I can't think of a time I ever noticed the temp of a turn in.

[Jorge]

I like to hit the early side of the window. Why? because that means I had time to get the box to look the way I wanted it without rushing.

I've only judged a handful of times, but I can't think of a time I ever noticed the temp of a turn in.

If you hit the early part of the window for chicken in a KCBS contest you've added 10 minutes to the time you have for ribs etc., in comparison to getting them in at the end of the window.

[KC_Bobby]

Jorge brings up another good reason I like being on the early side. Oh, it could also be the 40 seconds late on brisket too.

[VA BBQ PIRATES]

I like to hit the windows early for the "extra" time like Jorge mentioned. Then I know I have it if I need it. Plus if things are going as planned I may actually have a couple min to sit back and relax between boxes.

For me it's more important who is turning boxes in at the same time. I know judges aren't supposed to compare but I would feel better not being the 3rd sample at a table behind Tuffy and Johnny Trigg.

Tom

[Diva Q]

I like to hit the windows early for the "extra" time like Jorge mentioned. Then I know I have it if I need it. Plus if things are going as planned I may actually have a couple min to sit back and relax between boxes.

For me it's more important who is turning boxes in at the same time. I know judges aren't supposed to compare but I would feel better not being the 3rd sample at a table behind Tuffy and Johnny Trigg.

Tom

I want my food to go up against the toughest people on the circuit. I used to feel the same way (trying to figure out who was dropping off and what team they belonged to) but now I want to know how good or how bad it is against those true BBQ professionals.

I have a better sense of accomplishment and satisfaction if I think my stuff went up against some of those people.

[BBQ_Mayor]

If I can, I like to turn in early as possiable. Mainly cause when I'm one of the first boxes my box won't sit on the plate very long before it goes back to the judges.
I've dropped a box off once towards the end of turn in. I had a 2 minute walk back to my site, still with a view of the turn in table, and my box was still there.

[stlgreg]

My team is me and my wife. I like to turn in early so that i can get to work on the next box. If there is any problems, every minute counts for me.

[CaptTable]

One thing I've always found amusing . . . some teams build their turn-boxes on Friday night, then put in coolers to keep the garnish fresh and crisp. Then they take them out just before putting the hot meat in them.
Wouldn't this in itself cool the meat quite a bit?


Phillip

[ique]

For me it's more important who is turning boxes in at the same time. I know judges aren't supposed to compare but I would feel better not being the 3rd sample at a table behind Tuffy and Johnny Trigg.


Couple years ago at Dover I was walking in my Pork entry with Jack McDavid. And who strolls up behind us? Mrs. Trigg. Jack politely steps out of line drops back about 10 people. (Yes, I'm throwing him under the bus :icon_devil). I, on the other hand, felt bullish (or cocky?) and decided to go head-to-head with the Triggs.

The result? IQue bombed Pork, Smokin Triggers 1st place Pork :lol: Apparently Jack was the smart one.

[Jorge]

Couple years ago at Dover I was walking in my Pork entry with Jack McDavid. And who strolls up behind us? Mrs. Trigg. Jack politely steps out of line drops back about 10 people. (Yes, I'm throwing him under the bus :icon_devil). I, on the other hand, felt bullish (or cocky?) and decided to go head-to-head with the Triggs.

The result? IQue bombed Pork, Smokin Triggers 1st place Pork :lol: Apparently Jack was the smart one.

I'm not sure if this supports or contradicts your experience:

Royal Invitational this past year. We get the chicken box to turnin, and I see the ISS!! box going in. In my mind I was thinking about some of their struggles with chicken, and decided that might not be a bad table to be on.... We got 13th, just for Sled....and I Smell Smoke!! won chicken. I've wondered how that chicken might have fared otherwise.

When I finally told YankeeBBQ the story a couple of weeks ago he looked at it a little differently. He suggested it might have been the right table......

[musicmanryann]

Couple years ago at Dover I was walking in my Pork entry with Jack McDavid. And who strolls up behind us? Mrs. Trigg. Jack politely steps out of line drops back about 10 people. (Yes, I'm throwing him under the bus :icon_devil). I, on the other hand, felt bullish (or cocky?) and decided to go head-to-head with the Triggs.

The result? IQue bombed Pork, Smokin Triggers 1st place Pork :lol: Apparently Jack was the smart one.

So you're telling me that the boxes go to the judges in order of how their turned-in?:shock: If you ask me (and you probably aren't), but shouldn't it be more random, to keep teams from going through this whole strategization-handin'-their-meat-in-behind-other-good-teams-or-not-thing.

Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding this, so I apologize for this if I am, but it could be as simple as first turn-in goes to table 1, 2, 3, 4, n, then once every table has their first box the order gets randomly changed so the first box goes to 2, 4, 1, n, 3 etc. The way I am interpreting it getting done, seems to give teams at least a minuscule chance of controlling the outcome by counting the turn-ins--which seems silly.

Or is this why they changed the rule this year on the order in which judges receive each box?

[ique]

When I finally told YankeeBBQ the story a couple of weeks ago he looked at it a little differently. He suggested it might have been the right table......

A 13th and a 1st overall at the Royal is definitely a good table!

[Sledneck]

I'm not sure if this supports or contradicts your experience:

Royal Invitational this past year. We get the chicken box to turnin, and I see the ISS!! box going in. In my mind I was thinking about some of their struggles with chicken, and decided that might not be a bad table to be on.... We got 13th, just for Sled....and I Smell Smoke!! won chicken. I've wondered how that chicken might have fared otherwise.

When I finally told YankeeBBQ the story a couple of weeks ago he looked at it a little differently. He suggested it might have been the right table......

A 13th and a 1st overall is definitely a good table!I dont think the table or the timing had anything to do with that:rolleyes:

[Divemaster]

I like to be towards the begining of the turn in time... I usually try to get my runner going within a minute of when it opens... That way if I have a problem I have a couple of minutes to correct it....

In every event I have judged, the only meat that is even patially warm is the chicken. If you have ever judged, you will understand why. First, your boxes are delivered and sorted and then taken to the table for viewing. Next, the box is opened and all the judges get a chance to take a good look to judge on appearance. Stuff is already getting cold. Then each judge takes a piece and puts on their judging mat. They repeat this process six times before they take the first bit. Anything sitting on that judging mat for that long, except for a thigh, is cold. I think the winning teams know their entries will be tasted virtually cold and select a flavor profile accordingly.

One thing I've always found amusing . . . some teams build their turn-boxes on Friday night, then put in coolers to keep the garnish fresh and crisp. Then they take them out just before putting the hot meat in them.
Wouldn't this in itself cool the meat quite a bit?

This is something that I may not have taken as seriously as I should have. Next practice cook I'm building the boxes the night before, storing in the fridge, and letting the meat sit in them for 15 minutes and then taste it...

While I have had my food cold, I don't recall trying it 'cool'... That could be where the profile is off...

[stlgreg]

So you're telling me that the boxes go to the judges in order of how their turned-in?:shock: If you ask me (and you probably aren't), but shouldn't it be more random, to keep teams from going through this whole strategization-handin'-their-meat-in-behind-other-good-teams-or-not-thing.

Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding this, so I apologize for this if I am, but it could be as simple as first turn-in goes to table 1, 2, 3, 4, n, then once every table has their first box the order gets randomly changed so the first box goes to 2, 4, 1, n, 3 etc. The way I am interpreting it getting done, seems to give teams at least a minuscule chance of controlling the outcome by counting the turn-ins--which seems silly.

Or is this why they changed the rule this year on the order in which judges receive each box?


From what i have seen the first 6 boxes go to a table then the next 6, etc. There is care taken to make sure the same table does not get the the same team's entry more than once - sometimes it is just unavoidable.
boxes are swapped back and forth from table captain to table captain (unless the rep does it)

From my prespective, logistically, it would be very hard to do what you are asking.

[Chipper]

In the chili world the cups are to be mixed up to avoid the "seasoned" cooks form being on the same table(s).
I'd think that the same would apply to bbq, no? If not, there would be an advantage to where you are in line, I'd think. I will be doing my first comp in a couple of months, and this is a very interesting topic.

Thanks

[Alexa RnQ]

Best jockeying over turn-in time I ever had was at a comp last fall, at chicken turn-in, where I saw a buddy drop out of line for the table when I approached. I flat-out shamed him and told him to nut up and get back in line. He beat us in chicken that day, it was their very first first-place chicken ever, and I had a fine time yelling as loud as I could for them at awards. :mrgreen:

[Brew-B-Q]

Even if you land at the same table as a top cook, it doesn't necessarily mean their food will get tasted before yours. I was taught you had to score one piece and then move on. Meaning, if the best piece is last, that wouldn't have any negative effect on the other 5, even if the judges are comparing, which of course they aren't supposed to do:rolleyes:

[musicmanryann]

At my CBJ class what my teacher hammered into us was not to compare each turn-in, and I understand that you shouldn't. I also found that not comparing entries was the hardest thing to do. As I tried judging in our mock contest. I think the comparing thing comes into play hwne you have a bunch of non-CBJ's judging turn-ins. To me, comparing is a natural behavior, especially when one is inexperienced and there is no set rubric for scoring every category.

[The Giggler]

I've table captained at an event with 40 teams or so. The boxes are accumulated in groups of 6 as they are turned in, and then go to the table #1 for judging. As six more boxes come in, they go to table #2. And so on. This keeps things moving.

The tables are set up so that the order is switched. For example, if table #1 were the first to receive turn in boxes, then they might be last for the next entry. This mixes things up.

[Lakeside Smoker]

I turn my box in when it's ready. I defiantly don't need another thing at a comp to over analyze!

[KC_Bobby]

Word that and land at the same table as whoever happens to hit the same tray as it may

I just prefer to be on the front end of the window

Although, I've always wondered if having a lower entry number is an advantage because you wouldn't have to worry about being compared to others since the lowest number at each table is judged first.

[musicmanryann]

I've table captained at an event with 40 teams or so. The boxes are accumulated in groups of 6 as they are turned in, and then go to the table #1 for judging. As six more boxes come in, they go to table #2. And so on. This keeps things moving.

The tables are set up so that the order is switched. For example, if table #1 were the first to receive turn in boxes, then they might be last for the next entry. This mixes things up.

Now I understand--this makes more sense. Thanks! I just wonder if there is would be a way to keep things moving, but at the same time change things up a little in order to prevent teams from strategizing who they go head-to-head with, even if it makes little difference in real life. On the other hand ff seasoned, professional teams are doing it such as Smokin' Triggers, perhaps there is something to it. I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but this discussion intrigues me.:smile:

[musicmanryann]

Word that and land at the same table as whoever happens to hit the same tray as it may

I just prefer to be on the front end of the window

Although, I've always wondered if having a lower entry number is an advantage because you wouldn't have to worry about being compared to others since the lowest number at each table is judged first.

Now I know KCBS changed this rule this year, so now your first entry could be 123, 2nd--119, 3rd 124 and so on. They found there was a statistically significant correlation between scores and number order at the table, that is why they changed it.

[The Giggler]

Now I understand--this makes more sense. Thanks! I just wonder if there is would be a way to keep things moving, but at the same time change things up a little in order to prevent teams from strategizing who they go head-to-head with, even if it makes little difference in real life. On the other hand ff seasoned, professional teams are doing it such as Smokin' Triggers, perhaps there is something to it. I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but this discussion intrigues me.:smile:

Next time you visit a contest, be sure to see the Judges Tent. There's not a heck of a lot of space there. By accumulating 6 boxes, and delivering to a table, keeps the boxes moving and not sitting around waiting for the 6th box before heading off to the judges table.

Besides, if you had 48 teams, and 8 tables, and first team to turn in went to table #1, and the second team to turn in went to table #2, and so on until all 48 teams had turned in and there were 6 boxes for the 8 tables of judges. Would you want to be team #1 to turn in, and need team #41 to turn in their box before your table of judges received 6 boxes for turn in? I wouldn't....

My experience as a table captain was at a less than 50 team contest. As a competitor, I was really surprised how efficient the whole affair was.

[paydabill]

I guess, I try to hit the front of the window. I do not knwo if Brian ever looks around to see who turns in with them.I just do not want to make Brian run if we are late. He is smoker, he might pass out.

[QDoc]

So you're telling me that the boxes go to the judges in order of how their turned-in?:shock: If you ask me (and you probably aren't), but shouldn't it be more random, to keep teams from going through this whole strategization-handin'-their-meat-in-behind-other-good-teams-or-not-thing.

Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding this, so I apologize for this if I am, but it could be as simple as first turn-in goes to table 1, 2, 3, 4, n, then once every table has their first box the order gets randomly changed so the first box goes to 2, 4, 1, n, 3 etc. The way I am interpreting it getting done, seems to give teams at least a minuscule chance of controlling the outcome by counting the turn-ins--which seems silly.

Or is this why they changed the rule this year on the order in which judges receive each box?

Well I don't have the time to enter many contests but in those I have, I have noticed many of the name teams located next to the turn-in site.
My questioning nature leads me to believe this not to be a phenomenon of random selection. I have heard others speak of an advantage gained by some of these teams by turning in their entry along with some unknowns.
This is interesting and while I have expressed my concern, I know of no effort on KCBS part to make the entries given to the tables in a more random process.

[Alexa RnQ]

Well I don't have the time to enter many contests but in those I have, I have noticed many of the name teams located next to the turn-in site.

Was this a contest at which there were assigned spaces? Were those spaces assigned by order of entries received, or some other process? Or was it unassigned spots and simply a matter of the experienced teams knowing to get there early to get the spots they want?

I don't see an issue here, frankly. Any team can have their entry ready at any part of the window, and enter their box whenever they see fit. We've won when we've been close to turn-ins, and we've won when we've been located at the ass-end of the field.

[KC_Bobby]

Some things I've noticed about turn in as a competitor and judge:

As a competitor:
Small comps fill up a tray, change numbers and pass it on to a table capt
Mid size comps might have more then one tray to fill at the peak of turn in, so who knows if Joe or Sally is going to grab your turn in and put it on the left or right tray.
Large comps like the Royal - just get in line and hand it to the first person who grabs it. They could put it on any number of trays.

As a judge/table capt:
We've been told/instructed not to have the same box number (team) be judged at our table for more then one category. Thus, chicken is the only guarantee that would not switch trays. Buy the time brisket gets turned in, the last 2-3 trays are waiting for all turn ins to practically eliminate that from happening (trading entries when needed). I've personally traded for an entry then traded it because the next tray had a repeat number. So that box landed on three trays in a matter of 2 minutes.

I guess if a cook wants to play the tray game it's their right, but they may only be playing themselves. Judging already has a number of varibles in it, I personally don't feel like adding in another one myself.

Todd and I turned in pork to the same tray at BS, I remember cause he showed me his butt, I showed him mine. We both got calls. Who knows ... maybe every entry at that table got a call.

[Sledneck]

Some things I've noticed about turn in as a competitor and judge:

As a competitor:
Small comps fill up a tray, change numbers and pass it on to a table capt
Mid size comps might have more then one tray to fill at the peak of turn in, so who knows if Joe or Sally is going to grab your turn in and put it on the left or right tray.
Large comps like the Royal - just get in line and hand it to the first person who grabs it. They could put it on any tray.

As a judge/table capt:
We've been told/instructed not to have the same team be judged at our table for more then one catagory. Thus, chicken is the only guarantee that would not switch trays. Buy the time brisket gets turned in, the last 2-3 trays are waiting for all turn ins to practically eliminate that from happening (trading entries when needed).

I guess if a cook wants to play the tray game it's their right, but they may only be playing themselves. Judging already has a number of varibles in it, I personally don't feel like adding in another one myself.

Todd and I turned in pork to the same tray at BS, I remember cause he showed me his butt, I showed him mine. We both got calls.:eek::eek::eek:

[KC_Bobby]

What can we say, I guess we have appealing butts.

[Alexa RnQ]

Bobby, you wouldn't have been on the list of usual suspects to take a perfectly worthwhile competition thread and navigate it straight to the Woodpile. http://www.divaherself.com/crylaugh.gif

[KC_Bobby]

sorry, I'll stop now - just felt like adding a bit of light humor

[The_Kapn]

I turn my box in when it's ready. I defiantly don't need another thing at a comp to over analyze!

BINGO!!!

The only time that I am aware of where "who is on the table with you" or "when you turn it in" is an issue in in MIM/MBA and "Best of the Best" where they use comparative judging.
We have not figured that system out yet :oops:

Just a thought

TIM

[SmokeInDaEye]

Couple years ago at Dover I was walking in my Pork entry with Jack McDavid. And who strolls up behind us? Mrs. Trigg. Jack politely steps out of line drops back about 10 people. (Yes, I'm throwing him under the bus :icon_devil). I, on the other hand, felt bullish (or cocky?) and decided to go head-to-head with the Triggs.

The result? IQue bombed Pork, Smokin Triggers 1st place Pork :lol: Apparently Jack was the smart one.

That's a great story, Chris! I've never really thought about who's turning in around me.

That said, having literally "hit" the turn-in table a couple times running too fast to keep from getting DQ'd with 1-2 seconds left, I now aim for the front end of turn-in times.

[Coz]

At the first comp we attended we were talking with one of the old guard and he was ready to turn in and was watching who was heading for the line.when he saw what he wanted he was gone in a little cloud of dust.At our first comp we competed in we shot to be there when they started taking the boxes for fear of not getting done in time.Next one we were a little longer and the third one we just tried to avoid getting there when Scottie and Alex were coming down the hill....

[watg?]

Many interesting posts on my question. I have a hard time believing that some teams have enough time at their disposal to actually time their entries as to be able to determine what other teams are on the same table as their submission. Wow, I must be doing something wrong!

[SmokeInDaEye]

Many interesting posts on my question. I have a hard time believing that some teams have enough time at their disposal to actually time their entries as to be able to determine what other teams are on the same table as their submission. Wow, I must be doing something wrong!

You should trade spots with me in New Holland this year. I can literally watch the judges clock tick down then lightly toss my entry from my prep table into their arms.

[watg?]

You should trade spots with me in New Holland this year. I can literally watch the judges clock tick down then lightly toss my entry from my prep table into their arms.


I just don't know about that neighbor of yours up there!:-D:-D

[QDoc]

Was this a contest at which there were assigned spaces? Were those spaces assigned by order of entries received, or some other process? Or was it unassigned spots and simply a matter of the experienced teams knowing to get there early to get the spots they want?

I don't see an issue here, frankly. Any team can have their entry ready at any part of the window, and enter their box whenever they see fit. We've won when we've been close to turn-ins, and we've won when we've been located at the ass-end of the field.
It is at a contest which has developed into on of the mid-west's largest events. Yes the sites were assigned. The named teams I alluded to have always been located next to the judges building on pavement while the no names were located on a grass sloping site. Again it's hard to believe the sites were chosen randomly. Maybe the teams requested to be located close together.

[Alexa RnQ]

RV teams?... well, it is what it is then.

So, what's to prevent a no-name team from the other end of the field on the sloping grass from turning in their box whenever they want?

[QDoc]

Let me create a scenario for you. Let's say you have a 50+ team contest.
You are fortunate enough to be located next to the turn-in site. You have a team member, your runner, watching the entrants as they approach the turn-in site. It is easy to keep track of who turns in and when. Do you want your entry to go head to head with the top teams or would you prefer to place your entry in with 5 no name teams? Being located next to the judging tent allows this to be done with what I think happens when people turn in their entry. Unless I am mistaken when 6 entries arrive they are placed in a tray and taken to the judges without being placed in the judging delivery trays by some other random process. The explanation I have been given is the entries are delivered to the judges asap to attempt delivering a hot/warm product.:icon_sad I know judges are not supposed to compare but...:roll:

[KC_Bobby]

And their is nothing from keeping a team that has a spot on the other side of the competition from standing near the turn in a waiting for the same situtation. Sure it might be more convenient for a team near the turn in to '"wait" but I wouldn't say it's easier. It's not likely they can pack the box when they pick their spot and get it on that tray.

[musicmanryann]

Let me create a scenario for you. Let's say you have a 50+ team contest.
You are fortunate enough to be located next to the turn-in site. You have a team member, your runner, watching the entrants as they approach the turn-in site. It is easy to keep track of who turns in and when. Do you want your entry to go head to head with the top teams or would you prefer to place your entry in with 5 no name teams? Being located next to the judging tent allows this to be done with what I think happens when people turn in their entry. Unless I am mistaken when 6 entries arrive they are placed in a tray and taken to the judges without being placed in the judging delivery trays by some other random process. The explanation I have been given is the entries are delivered to the judges asap to attempt delivering a hot/warm product.:icon_sad I know judges are not supposed to compare but...:roll:

And their is nothing from keeping a team that has a spot on the other side of the competition from standing near the turn in a waiting for the same situtation. Sure it might be more convenient for a team near the turn in to '"wait" but I wouldn't say it's easier. It's not likely they can pack the box when they pick their spot and get it on that tray.

And it is exactly these scenarios that I find completely ridiculous. Perhaps we are making a mountain out of a molehill, but if it is happening a lot I think something should be done to prevent it.

[KC_Bobby]

Agree, I'm not basting in the sun waiting for some unknowns to come up. I think it's a molehill. Welcome the challenge and hope it lands on the right table.

[ique]

I doubt that the top teams are winning because they are timing their box delivery well.

[Balls Casten]

I dont know that any of our scores have changed. But a light went off one day when our runner came back and said she turned in our chicken right behind one of the women on that all pink team. (consequently Squeal of Approval won 1st place that day) We laughed and told her not to do that again. She now pays attention to who is in front of her and how many places are left on the try. She does not stand around for 10 min waiting for the perfect spot. But if it’s a matter of stopping to look at her watch and letting a team or two in front of her she’ll do it.

[Alexa RnQ]

I wouldn't say it's a complete non-factor, and I wouldn't say it's a nefarious plot to favor certain teams either. We've been the far-away team, and had just as much luxury to eyeball approaching entries as anyone else -- at least until I have to scamper back to prep the next box, because remember we're a two-person team without the luxury of a designated runner.

I think the correlation here is that if your cooking is organized and predictable and reproducible enough that you're consistently hitting the front of the window, you've got a lot more going for you when that box hits the table than just who else's food is on that mat with yours.

[watg?]

ah ha.....now it all makes sense. I often wondered why the top flight cooks are always running to catch up to me as I am walking my box to the judges table. And I thought all along they just wanted to walk along and talk with me, or perhaps they wanted to get a wiff of my Hai Karate (am I showing my age here?) Now I KNOW it is because they want their box to be along side of a 'no name team'.:grin::lol::razz:

[Balls Casten]

ah ha.....now it all makes sense. I often wondered why the top flight cooks are always running to catch up to me as I am walking my box to the judges table. And I thought all along they just wanted to walk along and talk with me, or perhaps they wanted to get a wiff of my Hai Karate (am I showing my age here?) Now I KNOW it is because they want their box to be along side of a 'no name team'.:grin::lol::razz:

Feels good to be loved! :mrgreen:

[TOPS BBQ]

I have seen top notch teams actually come in late by seconds. The Rep yelled out a the last 10 seconds and the runner came around the corner at zero. And that's exactly what they got (a zero). Sometimes, playing the wait game doesn't pay off.

As for ourselves, I try to get my stuff in the middle of the pack. But when that box is done, it gets turned in.