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View Full Version : Brisket slices & burnt ends in a box


Balls Casten
03-11-2009, 11:41 AM
We’re having a little debate over the brisket box in the other thread. So to clarify, if we wanted to make a brisket box that included slices and some burnt ends. In a KCBS contest, can you separate a piece of meat and continue cooking half of it.

When we ‘create” our burnt ends, we will cube or chunk the point then season/sauce and place back on the smoker.

So in order to cook everything as we normally do. We would separate the flat and point when it was done. Then throw the burnt ends back on the smoker for awhile.

Can we do that and place in one box? I didnt think you could do that in a contest.
(Did I explain my question correctly?)

paydabill
03-11-2009, 11:43 AM
The only thing you are not allowed to seperate is a pork butt - briskett you can cut anyway you want. A lot of people seperate point and flat in the middle of the cook.

Jeff_in_KC
03-11-2009, 12:05 PM
I wonder if anyone's ever had the testicular fortitude to actually "part" ribs and cook them individually to get bark all the way around the rib?

Also, if you had a butt weighing over 10 pounds, could you technically make it into two five pound butts since it can be bone in or out?

Jorge
03-11-2009, 12:11 PM
Also, if you had a butt weighing over 10 pounds, could you technically make it into two five pound butts since it can be bone in or out?

Not the way I read the rules. A butt, is a butt. If you trim something off, it's a trimming and not another butt.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-11-2009, 12:22 PM
Extreme BBQ pre cut ribs and tossed this in rub. He smoked them and turned them in and took I believe third at cabellas in 2006.

Jeff_in_KC
03-11-2009, 12:40 PM
Extreme BBQ pre cut ribs and tossed this in rub. He smoked them and turned them in and took I believe third at cabellas in 2006.

I would have liked to see those ribs! It's an interesting concept. I know sometimes we're not happy with the amount of meat between the bones when we slice and, while it would be a little more expensive to do, you could cut away from the bone and up against the next bone to get a lot of meat on each side of the one you turn in.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-11-2009, 12:47 PM
Hollywood cut them. The reason he did that was because he burnt his spares and had an extra rack of baby backs around with about two hours to go until turn in. High heat and got them done with plenty of time to spare.

Divemaster
03-11-2009, 01:00 PM
We’re having a little debate over the brisket box in the other thread. So to clarify, if we wanted to make a brisket box that included slices and some burnt ends. In a KCBS contest, can you separate a piece of meat and continue cooking half of it.

When we ‘create” our burnt ends, we will cube or chunk the point then season/sauce and place back on the smoker.

So in order to cook everything as we normally do. We would separate the flat and point when it was done. Then throw the burnt ends back on the smoker for awhile.

Can we do that and place in one box? I didnt think you could do that in a contest.
(Did I explain my question correctly?)

The only thing you are not allowed to seperate is a pork butt - briskett you can cut anyway you want. A lot of people seperate point and flat in the middle of the cook.
Paydabill is correct. According to the rules:



PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Picnic and/or Whole
Shoulder, weighing a minimum of five (5) pounds. Pork
shall be cooked (bone in or bone out) and shall not be parted.
BEEF BRISKET: May be whole brisket, flat, or point.
Corned beef is not allowed.


It's only the Pork that cannot be split or parted...

I split my brisket before it even hits the cooker....

Balls Casten
03-11-2009, 01:18 PM
Thx for another lesson. I was applying the pork rule to everything.

Anyone care to elaborate as to why the different rules for butts and brisket?

Divemaster
03-11-2009, 01:23 PM
Thx for another lesson. I was applying the pork rule to everything.

Anyone care to elaborate as to why the different rules for butts and brisket?

The easy answer is "Because it's the KCBS"....

I really don't have an answer other than maybe the 'Money Muscle' found on a pork butt... It's a great item to slice... Problem is that it tends to be done quicker than the rest of the butt...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Alexa RnQ
03-11-2009, 02:28 PM
And since we're talking burnt ends and slices...

The comment about putting the burnt ends in back rather than front caught my eye, the reasoning being that by putting the burnt ends in front one *might* be trying to hide "something".

Is this a widespread perception?

Scottie
03-11-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm not taking any chance to let a judge and their "perception" ruin my score... That's why I put them in the back of the box... Assuming they are good enough... I also don't want to hide my slices of briskets...

The Pickled Pig
03-11-2009, 03:04 PM
And since we're talking burnt ends and slices...

The comment about putting the burnt ends in back rather than front caught my eye, the reasoning being that by putting the burnt ends in front one *might* be trying to hide "something".

Is this a widespread perception?


I don't think that's always the case. As a general rule of thumb, I want to showcase the best looking most appetizing product in the box and "hide" or distract from the rest.

The box we were looking at in the other thread had wonderful flat slices while the burnt ends didn't look so good to me. I just wondered why someone would hide that front slice instead of highlighting it.

If I needed to hide injection marks or a tear, I'd do the same thing. I think the judges will be less likely to score you down for covering up the front slice than they would for a nasty stain. The appearance judging happens quick and once the score is written down, they can't change it.

watertowerbbq
03-11-2009, 07:16 PM
How to you get a boneless butt without trimming it?

watertowerbbq
03-11-2009, 07:21 PM
After the last post, I thought to myself, "We all truly missed our calling. We should have all been lawyers! :-D

.......(jack mccoy) "Your honor, a butt is a butt and shall not be trimmed." (defense attorney) "My client clearly split the butt into 2 - 5 lb sections and therefore, no violation of the law occurred." (jack mccoy)"You can't be serious!" .................

Part of me loves when we haggle over some of the rules. :-D

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Once you put the burnt ends in with the slices, the burnt ends should be judged equally with the slices. The judge should give a score to each and then average the two scores. If the burnt ends are not equal, they will bring the score down accordingly. So you better like the way they look and taste.

This is how I was taught to judge a mixed box anyway.

Meat Burner
03-11-2009, 07:50 PM
Anything you put in the box is game for a judge to taste. My understanding is the judge does not have to take two samples and average them. Each piece is a stand alone entry and judged on it's own merit. Just my thinking.

Wifey says you are supposed to sample both and give one score. She is usually right about this . Just want to do the right thing here. This is why I like to watch this thread.

Plowboy
03-11-2009, 08:53 PM
The easy answer is "Because it's the KCBS"....

I really don't have an answer other than maybe the 'Money Muscle' found on a pork butt... It's a great item to slice... Problem is that it tends to be done quicker than the rest of the butt...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

From what I know, Head Country II was parting the Butt in to separate muscles back in the day, grilling them, and then slicing. After folks couldn't beat him, the no parting rule came into play. It actually wasn't the money muscle he was using, but the triangle shaped muscle group right behind it and on top of the blade portion of the bone.

Divemaster
03-12-2009, 08:10 AM
The easy answer is "Because it's the KCBS"....

I really don't have an answer other than maybe the 'Money Muscle' found on a pork butt... It's a great item to slice... Problem is that it tends to be done quicker than the rest of the butt...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

From what I know, Head Country II was parting the Butt in to separate muscles back in the day, grilling them, and then slicing. After folks couldn't beat him, the no parting rule came into play. It actually wasn't the money muscle he was using, but the triangle shaped muscle group right behind it and on top of the blade portion of the bone.
I stand corrected... Thanks for the history lesson Todd!